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Can you separate the art from the artist?
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"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down." I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. | |||
"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping. As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals." Oh my god he was an extreme example! The years of denial and then him eventually being forced to admit it just destroyed his reputation. Must have been tough for his fans to take. I feel similarly about the steroid scandal in baseball, although some of those guys' home run records still stand, as not everything could be proven conclusively. The mountains of evidence make it pretty obvious though. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong." I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. | |||
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"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct. I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection. " That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example. And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. | |||
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"I do this daily. Separate different elements from an individual. If a Carpenter makes great furniture that is fit for purpose and aestheticly pleasing I can appreciate her work without knowing what her general character or personality is. " Honestly, at this point I'd rather know less about actors, musicians, sports stars etc. It would be much easier to enjoy everything 😄 | |||
"I still listen to mixes / CDs of Erick Morillo (DJ, producer for those unfamiliar - was actually the man behind 'i like to move it, move it' !!) but there is a slight feeling of unease given the circumstances. Should folk not watch Madagascar again !? Where do you draw the line? " I don't know what he did... I don't have any special affinity for the song or Madagascar, so what did he do? I've noticed over the years that Gary Glitter still gets played as a victory song at American sporting events, I've always found that particularly horrifying | |||
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"I still listen to mixes / CDs of Erick Morillo (DJ, producer for those unfamiliar - was actually the man behind 'i like to move it, move it' !!) but there is a slight feeling of unease given the circumstances. Should folk not watch Madagascar again !? Where do you draw the line? I don't know what he did... I don't have any special affinity for the song or Madagascar, so what did he do? I've noticed over the years that Gary Glitter still gets played as a victory song at American sporting events, I've always found that particularly horrifying" They used one of his songs in the Joker movie | |||
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"I can. It's largely just the way my brain works. I believe I can fly, Remix to Ignition. These are awesome songs, R Kelly who? Same applies to everything. If I was a fan of it before. If I was not a fan prior to any controversy that I don't agree with, yeah I'll generally just not approach anything new. So anything with Jimmy Saville was before my time really, had no interest in anything of his growing up so the boycott of him was not exactly a stretch. Essentially I'm in it for my own enjoyment, I'll not stop listening to music I liked, watching movies/shows I liked, reading books I liked because of the actions of the maker. Chances are, if you dig deep enough there is not a thing in modern day entertainment that you would not be able to avoid attaching some form of controversy to within the creation process." It is interesting how everyone has their own personal limits on what they will accept regarding this. It's a balancing act where you just have to find what works for you | |||
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"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to." I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with. | |||
"Mostly I can but Jacko I can’t. Evil genius pod cast is exactly based on this. Well worth a listen. " I haven't heard of this podcast but I'll check it out, thanks  | |||
"Mostly no. I stop consuming things from people if their views and actions cross moral lines for me. I do allow myself the space to appreciate what their art has done for me. Some art changes you forever, even if you sell everything and never look at it again. That's still meaningful." That's a good point about appreciating what art has done for you. It changed you, and nothing the artist did afterwards (or when you became aware) can change that. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with." I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. | |||
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Yes I get what you mean.
so I suppose it has some tie in with never meet your hero's to some extent. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with. I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. " One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well  | |||
" so I suppose it has some tie in with never meet your hero's to some extent." Yes definitely. I've also learned it's just better not to have celebrities as heroes at all. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with. I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. " Believing one thing doesn't make you another. | |||
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"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with. I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well ""...each to their own..." only when it suits, eh? If you see my challenging what I see as bullshit as my "preoccupation" then I'm happy to be occupied. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to." Well you bought her into the conversation so maybe you can find just one example of what she said or done, should be really easy for you if it's all over the Internet ? Was it her comment that women have periods ? Or that sex is real ? | |||
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"Mainly when they are nonces I’ll never listen to them again, especially Michael Jackson which baffles me why they still play him on the wireless Views they have expressed though no I couldn’t give a fuck everyone entitled to they opinion " Because he was found not guilty. People only accept a guilty/not guilty verdict as true when it signs with their own opinion/belief Problem is now, people go to far in the direction of public opinion and an accusation being a solid fact as guilty. It's exhausting | |||
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"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct. I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection. That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example. And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. " What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop? | |||
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"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct. I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection. That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example. And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop?" Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre? | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with. I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well
"...each to their own..." only when it suits, eh? If you see my challenging what I see as bullshit as my "preoccupation" then I'm happy to be occupied."Kind of like you saying the court of public opinion is a bad thing when it goes against something you like, yet you say most of the public believe what you do, in which case it's a good thing  | |||
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"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping. As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals." Shock horror, sportman cheats! Hard to break this too you mate but you'll never find one sportsman that hasn't cheated. Also, the whole cycling field was doping at that time, and still are today but it's not that blatant. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. I've still to be shown evidence of what J K Rowling has said or done that is wrong. I'm not getting into it here, it's all easily available with a quick Google search. You can believe whatever you choose to. I just find it odd that she's lumped in with sex offenders (some of whom are only alleged as they have never been convicted but the court of, perceived, public opinion is always right, yes?) when all she's stated, and continues to state, is something the overwhelming amount of people on this planet agree with. I really hope the overwhelming amount of people on this planet aren't transphobic. One would be a rich person if there was a bet of when this guy will pop up in a thread. Certain topics seem to be his preoccupation. To each their own of course but ... oh well
"...each to their own..." only when it suits, eh? If you see my challenging what I see as bullshit as my "preoccupation" then I'm happy to be occupied.
Kind of like you saying the court of public opinion is a bad thing when it goes against something you like, yet you say most of the public believe what you do, in which case it's a good thing "Public opinion and immutable facts are different, Phil. | |||
"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping. As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals." The amount of disagreements I had with fellow club members defending Lance was ridiculous and I was adamant he was innocent. In hindsight looking back it's was frigging obvious he was on juice. I also threw my livestrong bands and autobiographies. However I do believe that he did alot for testicular cancer awareness so he wasn't all bad but a total narcissist unfortunately. | |||
"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct. I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection. That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example. And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop? Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre?" Iggy pop...bowies mate. | |||
"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter! " Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music. | |||
"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct. I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection. That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example. And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop? Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre? Iggy pop...bowies mate." Got ya, and yes not a fan of him, or Anthony Kiedis, for similar reasons | |||
"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter! Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music." A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker" 🤣 | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down." It's not always possible to just stop the influence. Example: Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations. It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation. Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song. I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it. | |||
"Simplistically no, I can’t separate the two. John Peel’s memory is forever tainted annd I don’t listen to his old Peel Sessions after revelations about his relationship with a 15 yo girl. I can’t listen or dance to Michael Jackson’s music and Morriseys racist and other rants mean I won’t consume any of his lyrical products or put money in his pocket by buying tickets to his gigs. I stopped interest and purchases around Mark Kozelek(Sun Kil Moon) after his obnoxious behaviour and allegations of sexual misconduct. I have however purchased VW cars and Hugo Boss shirts and don’t mind Wagner and Beethovens 9th so maybe time softens the objection. That's very interesting about some things being ok after a lot of time has passed, possibly because people only found out about them after them already being such well known, established brands. Chanel is another example. And yeah, I'm with you Michael Jackson and Morrissey. What about peel? Or bowie? Or pop? Yeah Peel and Bowie can get in the bin too. Who is pop, or do you mean the genre? Iggy pop...bowies mate. Got ya, and yes not a fan of him, or Anthony Kiedis, for similar reasons" Yeah ive seen people mention rhcp on here. Kiedus didnt even hide it. He wrote a song about it. | |||
"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter! Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music. A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker" 🤣"  | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. It's not always possible to just stop the influence. Example: Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations. It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation. Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song. I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it." He shouldnt be on the radio. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. It's not always possible to just stop the influence. Example: Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations. It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation. Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song. I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it. He shouldnt be on the radio." Why? Nothing was ever proven nor was he ever convicted. Obviously this doesn't make him innocent but he's long dead . I'm not defending him just the facts. | |||
"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter! Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music. A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker" 🤣" Slight difference | |||
"I guessed it depends on what they did, as in they are proven to have done. I still love Michael Jackson's music. And I love Harry Potter! Same as the people who ignore perls child abuse because he played good music. A guy i worked with around the time of Michael Jackson's death, whenever someone would say they still love his music, he'd reply "yeah it's like Ian Huntley. Say what you want about the man, but he was a bloody good caretaker" 🤣" That's funny but possibly not the way you think. | |||
"Are you able to enjoy someone's art, even after it comes out that they have done something terrible, or have beliefs that completely counter your moral compass? For me, the art and artist are totally intertwined, and if an artist lets me down like this, I let them go. For instance, I used to like Kobe Bryant as a basketball player, but after the accusations and mountains of evidence against him, I ended up selling my Kobe basketball cards I had collected in my earlier years. I also deleted any Kanye and Nicki Minaj music from my computer in recent years. I was never into Harry Potter, so it's not hard for me to boycott JK Rowling, but I wonder if fans stick with it? Personally I feel like if you still feel a connection to the stories, there are ways to continue enjoying them without making her richer. I find it tricky with some media like movies too. If something comes out about an actor, should you discard all their films, despite many other people being involved in writing, directing, co-starring etc. So I'm curious, does this kind of thing matter to you? Or is ignorance bliss? Sometimes I wish I just knew less about everyone, as inevitably someone you like will let you down. It's not always possible to just stop the influence. Example: Growing up in the 80's like millions of others Michael Jackson was a massive influence and shaped the way many grew up, long before accusations. It's extremely difficult to just ignore that part of your life, that whole period of the early /mid 80s shaped a whole generation. Just because I listen to a song doesn't make me a wrong un, it just means I like that song. I wouldn't buy his music now but if thriller comes on the radio I'd definitely sing along with it. He shouldnt be on the radio. Why? Nothing was ever proven nor was he ever convicted. Obviously this doesn't make him innocent but he's long dead . I'm not defending him just the facts." He wasnt convicted because he was rich. | |||
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"I think there's something a little unsettling and unhealthy about accusation culture. The expression 'every accusation is a confession' has some truth to it." Whats that got to do with disliming people due to their actions or beliefs? | |||
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"I think there's something a little unsettling and unhealthy about accusation culture. The expression 'every accusation is a confession' has some truth to it." | |||
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"I’m with you on this, Phil. I have always been a committed fan of road cycling and supported Lance Armstrong as he continually defended himself against the accusations of doping. As soon as he admitted it, he plummeted in my estimations. I chucked his two autobiographies, my sunglasses, live strong band and am pleased they’ve scratched his achievements from the annals." To me that reads that you abandoned the 'person' and not your interest in the sport. | |||
"Appreciate the heads up on Pop and Bowie. I hadn’t heard about the Baby Groupies thing before. Read a little last night and will now no longer listen to Pops Radio 6 show. His acknowledgment that he sex with a 13 yo girl amongst others in the 70s trumps his good music choice today. If you say it doesn’t matter then the survivors don’t matter. The grooming gangs coming to light from the social, artistic and political ‘elites’ of the 60s and 70s and beyond need to made public and be held fully accountable for what they did. Westwood, Denning, Mills and others have, so maybe now Pop " This point of view is somewhat myopic. It fails to take into account changes in culture historically. What is wrong now may not have been decades to a century ago. Also .... just how far back in history are you going to go ??? and is it just pop stars, d.j.'s and BBC personnel ? Shall we start with everyday men who lust after women barely over the legal age ? We need more prisons | |||
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"Appreciate the heads up on Pop and Bowie. I hadn’t heard about the Baby Groupies thing before. Read a little last night and will now no longer listen to Pops Radio 6 show. His acknowledgment that he sex with a 13 yo girl amongst others in the 70s trumps his good music choice today. If you say it doesn’t matter then the survivors don’t matter. The grooming gangs coming to light from the social, artistic and political ‘elites’ of the 60s and 70s and beyond need to made public and be held fully accountable for what they did. Westwood, Denning, Mills and others have, so maybe now Pop This point of view is somewhat myopic. It fails to take into account changes in culture historically. What is wrong now may not have been decades to a century ago. Also .... just how far back in history are you going to go ??? and is it just pop stars, d.j.'s and BBC personnel ? Shall we start with everyday men who lust after women barely over the legal age ? We need more prisons " Think that taking it to your conclusion is a little disingenuous. Iggy Pop is still relevant today and has written about it. The question posed was about separating the art from the artist hence Pop stars, djs etc were most relevant to my terms of reference, but if we are broadening the question then, each case on merit, but yes those in history should be held accountable My original post accepted a time related softening (vw, Boss, Wagner etc) but the 70s? Where do you suggest the cut off point is? | |||
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