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David Sullivan
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Although I'm a West Ham fan, I've never been really sold on Mr Sullivans notoriety.
Recent claims of sexual harassment against him seem a bit wierd after so long. Probably the early investigations were squashed by the law at the time.
Now times have changed and his past may be catching up on him.
Some would say the women should have known better than to get involved but then they were exploiting his organisation to gain fame n fortune.
A case of you scratch my back or clear sexual harassment.
Finding it hard to side with either party. |
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Allegedly used his position of power to get women to have sex with him. Suspect there is a lot of truth behind it.
Also used to publish pieces about 15 year old girls who it would soon be legal to publish topless pics of with countdowns until their birthdays. Pretty disgusting man even if the former allegations ended up as false (which I think is unlikely). |
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"Although I'm a West Ham fan, I've never been really sold on Mr Sullivans notoriety.
Recent claims of sexual harassment against him seem a bit wierd after so long. Probably the early investigations were squashed by the law at the time.
Now times have changed and his past may be catching up on him.
Some would say the women should have known better than to get involved but then they were exploiting his organisation to gain fame n fortune.
A case of you scratch my back or clear sexual harassment.
Finding it hard to side with either party."
That shows no understanding of how sexual abuse happens. It puts some blame on the victim, a very male view.
Grim.
Victims of abuse should be listened to and supported. Sullivan had all the power and it was an open secret for decades what he was like |
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"Although I'm a West Ham fan, I've never been really sold on Mr Sullivans notoriety.
Recent claims of sexual harassment against him seem a bit wierd after so long. Probably the early investigations were squashed by the law at the time.
Now times have changed and his past may be catching up on him.
Some would say the women should have known better than to get involved but then they were exploiting his organisation to gain fame n fortune.
A case of you scratch my back or clear sexual harassment.
Finding it hard to side with either party.
That shows no understanding of how sexual abuse happens. It puts some blame on the victim, a very male view.
Grim.
Victims of abuse should be listened to and supported. Sullivan had all the power and it was an open secret for decades what he was like"
I'm more cynical than male empathy.
I know of several cases where female manipulation can be overlooked and a the so called perpetrator gets all the blame.
If the the females claiming abuse are genuine, fair enough.
If however they were out to exploit the situation and manipulate it for their own gain then whose to blame?
The truth should prevail not for the sake of a cause because genuine victims won't be believed. PC gone wrong?
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"Although I'm a West Ham fan, I've never been really sold on Mr Sullivans notoriety.
Recent claims of sexual harassment against him seem a bit wierd after so long. Probably the early investigations were squashed by the law at the time.
Now times have changed and his past may be catching up on him.
Some would say the women should have known better than to get involved but then they were exploiting his organisation to gain fame n fortune.
A case of you scratch my back or clear sexual harassment.
Finding it hard to side with either party.
That shows no understanding of how sexual abuse happens. It puts some blame on the victim, a very male view.
Grim.
Victims of abuse should be listened to and supported. Sullivan had all the power and it was an open secret for decades what he was like
I'm more cynical than male empathy.
I know of several cases where female manipulation can be overlooked and a the so called perpetrator gets all the blame.
If the the females claiming abuse are genuine, fair enough.
If however they were out to exploit the situation and manipulate it for their own gain then whose to blame?
The truth should prevail not for the sake of a cause because genuine victims won't be believed. PC gone wrong?
"
Statistically, there are far more examples of women being abused by predators than women falsely accusing others. It’s a red herring in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary (not specifically this case, I’m talking in general). When a woman speaks up, I believe her.
Mrs TMN |
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It begs the question why would women go into an industry where they are more likely to be open to abuse.
It's a bad world out there why should people expect the porn industry be any different.
The casting couch has been awell known hurdle for zonks, are women that naive to think it didn't exist. Surely you'd check out the organisation and it's proprietor first before even remotely getting involved like any job. |
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"Finding it hard to side with either party."
Powerful male figure who dominated and controlled an industry with huge wealth using that to his advantage to prey on younger, vulnerable women? Hardly a new or unique situation is it? With lots of examples of how that dynamic played out in the past with others.
Of course there will be a few who will victim shame, and blame the girls involved, along with “fake claims” brigade. Statistically, the number of fake allegations, that is where allegations have been proven to be false, are very, very low.
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I actually feel this is incredibly lazy journalism.
On Monday you have Malcolm Phillips who gets an absolute discharge for horrendous abuse (physical, mental and sexual) at a child’s home and it doesn’t even make the front page yet at the same time a serial 1980s sex entrepreneur has adult models making allegations and it gets prime time television.
Sullivan is click bait. Phillips is the real story but it will never be told. |
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"It begs the question why would women go into an industry where they are more likely to be open to abuse.
It's a bad world out there why should people expect the porn industry be any different.
The casting couch has been awell known hurdle for zonks, are women that naive to think it didn't exist. Surely you'd check out the organisation and it's proprietor first before even remotely getting involved like any job."
Blame the women, yeah that’s right. |
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"Although I'm a West Ham fan, I've never been really sold on Mr Sullivans notoriety.
Recent claims of sexual harassment against him seem a bit wierd after so long. Probably the early investigations were squashed by the law at the time.
Now times have changed and his past may be catching up on him.
Some would say the women should have known better than to get involved but then they were exploiting his organisation to gain fame n fortune.
A case of you scratch my back or clear sexual harassment.
Finding it hard to side with either party.
That shows no understanding of how sexual abuse happens. It puts some blame on the victim, a very male view.
Grim.
Victims of abuse should be listened to and supported. Sullivan had all the power and it was an open secret for decades what he was like
I'm more cynical than male empathy.
I know of several cases where female manipulation can be overlooked and a the so called perpetrator gets all the blame.
If the the females claiming abuse are genuine, fair enough.
If however they were out to exploit the situation and manipulate it for their own gain then whose to blame?
The truth should prevail not for the sake of a cause because genuine victims won't be believed. PC gone wrong?
Statistically, there are far more examples of women being abused by predators than women falsely accusing others. It’s a red herring in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary (not specifically this case, I’m talking in general). When a woman speaks up, I believe her.
Mrs TMN"
Spot on. For every one person - men and women- who manipulates things (usually for compensation) there are thousands of real victims |
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This is a man who had 15 year old girls in his newspaper next to a countdown to their 16th birthday when they could publish topless pictures of them. I found that to be disturbing back then and the passage of time had not changed that. Thankfully the law has been changed so the models must be 18 before naked images can be published.
The evidence suggests that he was a sexual predator and it seems he had a nickname in the adult industry, “no blow job, no job”.
A wrong ‘un. |
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By *l_xxxMan 4 days ago
South leeds |
It would be nice if allegations are investigated without media speculation/pressure. Makes it fair for both sides.
Disappointingly, its taking too many private investigations to force pressure for official investigations. I only hope things are changing that every allegation is taken seriously and objectively.
Trial by media amounts to a witch hunt and never gets to the truth and in some cases, claims of bias due to being too PC.
Are we reaching a point where finding a good honest kind person is so rare it will make front page news? It feels like it sometimes. |
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By *it62Man 4 days ago
leeds/Bradford |
As a WHU fan I am glad that this is finally out there. It has been known for years that he was a dodgy seedy old man. Perhaps now the club can move in a direction more suited to its tradition and loyal following rather than being used as a toy for this billionaire scoundrel.
I think that the evidence shown on Panorama is, at best vague and certainly historic.
If there was any actual evidence then this could have and should have been dealt with years ago.
My best guess is that nothing will come of the accusations, true or otherwise and Sullivan will use his financial wealth to demand an apology and likely get a court to uphold his claim of libel and add to his coffers.
The women may have been nieve and in search of fame, but what he is alleged to have done is wrong, if unsurprising.
I'm sure that there are numerous other women with similar claims against Sullivan and others like him.
It will rumble on until it runs out of steam.
For us fans of The Irons, Sullivan's exposure has rid the club of a foolish tyrant and we can hope, expect even, a brighter future. |
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By *wcoMan 4 days ago
West Midlands |
"I actually feel this is incredibly lazy journalism.
On Monday you have Malcolm Phillips who gets an absolute discharge for horrendous abuse (physical, mental and sexual) at a child’s home and it doesn’t even make the front page yet at the same time a serial 1980s sex entrepreneur has adult models making allegations and it gets prime time television.
Sullivan is click bait. Phillips is the real story but it will never be told."
I see where you're coming from but I don't think DS has chucked West Ham just because a few women said he wanted noshing off in return for a job 20+ years ago.
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By *wcoMan 4 days ago
West Midlands |
"As a WHU fan I am glad that this is finally out there. It has been known for years that he was a dodgy seedy old man. Perhaps now the club can move in a direction more suited to its tradition and loyal following rather than being used as a toy for this billionaire scoundrel.
I think that the evidence shown on Panorama is, at best vague and certainly historic.
If there was any actual evidence then this could have and should have been dealt with years ago.
My best guess is that nothing will come of the accusations, true or otherwise and Sullivan will use his financial wealth to demand an apology and likely get a court to uphold his claim of libel and add to his coffers.
The women may have been nieve and in search of fame, but what he is alleged to have done is wrong, if unsurprising.
I'm sure that there are numerous other women with similar claims against Sullivan and others like him.
It will rumble on until it runs out of steam.
For us fans of The Irons, Sullivan's exposure has rid the club of a foolish tyrant and we can hope, expect even, a brighter future."
The story was subject to an anonymity order, paid for by DS. That was challenged and quashed about a month ago, hence the story coming out now. I don't think he's going to be getting libel for this. |
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By *wcoMan 4 days ago
West Midlands |
"Him , Brady and Gold bros were in charge at Bham City before selling up and moving over to home team WHU. "
Sold us to a bunch of crooks. The new chairman (Yeung) was in prison a few years later for money laundering. His side-kick was a disgraced former Hong Kong top cop, who was found to be 'in bed' with triad gangs.
He won't give a stuff who who's leaving his shares in West Ham to. |
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By *igtoyMan 4 days ago
Ask if interested |
"As a WHU fan I am glad that this is finally out there. It has been known for years that he was a dodgy seedy old man. Perhaps now the club can move in a direction more suited to its tradition and loyal following rather than being used as a toy for this billionaire scoundrel.
I think that the evidence shown on Panorama is, at best vague and certainly historic.
If there was any actual evidence then this could have and should have been dealt with years ago.
My best guess is that nothing will come of the accusations, true or otherwise and Sullivan will use his financial wealth to demand an apology and likely get a court to uphold his claim of libel and add to his coffers.
The women may have been nieve and in search of fame, but what he is alleged to have done is wrong, if unsurprising.
I'm sure that there are numerous other women with similar claims against Sullivan and others like him.
It will rumble on until it runs out of steam.
For us fans of The Irons, Sullivan's exposure has rid the club of a foolish tyrant and we can hope, expect even, a brighter future."
You are missing a massive point. Panorama had to restrain themselves due to the watershed. Mainstream press, world renowned papers like The Times have an enormous amounts of alleged evidence that is still to be made public. Its a massive disgusting scandal.
Essex Police clearly corrupt aswell. Their investigations should be reviewed by independant assessors.
Rumble on? I dont think so. Snowball momentum....deffo. |
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By *it62Man 3 days ago
leeds/Bradford |
"As a WHU fan I am glad that this is finally out there. It has been known for years that he was a dodgy seedy old man. Perhaps now the club can move in a direction more suited to its tradition and loyal following rather than being used as a toy for this billionaire scoundrel.
I think that the evidence shown on Panorama is, at best vague and certainly historic.
If there was any actual evidence then this could have and should have been dealt with years ago.
My best guess is that nothing will come of the accusations, true or otherwise and Sullivan will use his financial wealth to demand an apology and likely get a court to uphold his claim of libel and add to his coffers.
The women may have been nieve and in search of fame, but what he is alleged to have done is wrong, if unsurprising.
I'm sure that there are numerous other women with similar claims against Sullivan and others like him.
It will rumble on until it runs out of steam.
For us fans of The Irons, Sullivan's exposure has rid the club of a foolish tyrant and we can hope, expect even, a brighter future.
You are missing a massive point. Panorama had to restrain themselves due to the watershed. Mainstream press, world renowned papers like The Times have an enormous amounts of alleged evidence that is still to be made public. Its a massive disgusting scandal.
Essex Police clearly corrupt aswell. Their investigations should be reviewed by independant assessors.
Rumble on? I dont think so. Snowball momentum....deffo."
You clearly have inside information....
There have been consistent rumours around The London Stadium and The Boleyn Ground for many years now, there is clearly more to it but it is likely to end with a fizz rather than a bang.
Sullivan has become the Jimmy Saville of football and has 'friends' as well as enormous financial clout.
Essex police may be inept or simply unable to pursue based on the limited evidence available.
Sure, the program was aired before the watershed, it was not going to bring out all the detail of the allegations but if there were details that were more explicit then the program could have been broadcast later.
The simple facts, as we know them currently, are that the allegations are historic, unpleasant and have only the substance of verbal accusation.
We can only await the next episode. |
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"It begs the question why would women go into an industry where they are more likely to be open to abuse.
It's a bad world out there why should people expect the porn industry be any different.
The casting couch has been awell known hurdle for zonks, are women that naive to think it didn't exist. Surely you'd check out the organisation and it's proprietor first before even remotely getting involved like any job.
Blame the women, yeah that’s right. "
I think you'll find some women blame themselves for playing the game.
Virginia Guiffre for example sadly for her regrets came too late. |
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"
I think you'll find some women blame themselves for playing the game.
Virginia Guiffre for example sadly for her regrets came too late.
"
You really are struggling to understand the imbalance of power here, and vulnerable people, aren’t you? The person with the power, control and influence takes advantage of those without, and the consequences?
You inappropriately mention the late Virginia Guiffre. The impact being trafficked and used by the rich and powerful destroyed her life. Those who work with victims of such abuse will tell you how deep and lasting the damage is. Given this, how can you be so cavalier about what DS is accused of?
Women are not collateral for the wealthy to toy with for their own amusement with consequences. |
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By *wcoMan 3 days ago
West Midlands |
Sullivan has links to David Hunt, one of London's most elusive crime lords. Elusive because people like Sullivan loan him money when he needs he needs help with his legal fees.
I reckon DS will walk away with nothing but reputation damage though. He was arrested last year and police said there was no case to answer.
Unless the TV doc encourages more people to come out with their stories.
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"
I think you'll find some women blame themselves for playing the game.
Virginia Guiffre for example sadly for her regrets came too late.
You really are struggling to understand the imbalance of power here, and vulnerable people, aren’t you? The person with the power, control and influence takes advantage of those without, and the consequences?
You inappropriately mention the late Virginia Guiffre. The impact being trafficked and used by the rich and powerful destroyed her life. Those who work with victims of such abuse will tell you how deep and lasting the damage is. Given this, how can you be so cavalier about what DS is accused of?
Women are not collateral for the wealthy to toy with for their own amusement with consequences."
I think you'll find I do understand the abuse of power, my point is the false accusers spoil the argument for the genuine abused.
I did state I don't side with any party in the DS case. Play with the devil(DS) you get burnt.
Virginia only felt guilty for herself and others involved that she procured aswell when she had children of her own years later, only then it hit her the scale of the situation.
Cavalier? Cynical yes.
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"
I think you'll find some women blame themselves for playing the game.
Virginia Guiffre for example sadly for her regrets came too late.
You really are struggling to understand the imbalance of power here, and vulnerable people, aren’t you? The person with the power, control and influence takes advantage of those without, and the consequences?
You inappropriately mention the late Virginia Guiffre. The impact being trafficked and used by the rich and powerful destroyed her life. Those who work with victims of such abuse will tell you how deep and lasting the damage is. Given this, how can you be so cavalier about what DS is accused of?
Women are not collateral for the wealthy to toy with for their own amusement with consequences."
Ultimately women have the real power, it's how they use it or don't.
It may or may not catch up with DS. |
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"I actually feel this is incredibly lazy journalism.
On Monday you have Malcolm Phillips who gets an absolute discharge for horrendous abuse (physical, mental and sexual) at a child’s home and it doesn’t even make the front page yet at the same time a serial 1980s sex entrepreneur has adult models making allegations and it gets prime time television.
Sullivan is click bait. Phillips is the real story but it will never be told."
It may turn out his "weakness" for chasing glamour models may be his undoing.
Did he really have power in the end?
It'll interesting to see who comes forward now the floodgates are open.
At least he's still alive rather than dead like Saville, Al Fayed and Epo.
To face the consequences. That's if the law can make it stick. |
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"I actually feel this is incredibly lazy journalism.
On Monday you have Malcolm Phillips who gets an absolute discharge for horrendous abuse (physical, mental and sexual) at a child’s home and it doesn’t even make the front page yet at the same time a serial 1980s sex entrepreneur has adult models making allegations and it gets prime time television.
Sullivan is click bait. Phillips is the real story but it will never be told."
Definitely other important cases get shoved aside for the " bigger story"
The media have alot to answer for too.
Of which DS was well embedded.
The BBC used to have collection of the Dailies in their reception and The Sport was amongst the array.
Some of his glamour girls appeared on many a tv show, no doubt he was pulling strings. |
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"I saw the panorama programme, was very interesting watch,
On the lines of Saville
Let's see how many women come forward. . . Then to see what happens"
I agree.
The thing is in the DS cases the pursuit of fame and fortune are the keys to getting to the bottom.
Ideally going to work for DS organisation in pursuit of fame and fortune should be a legitimate reason to take your clothes off and be plastered in mags and papers.
However in the real world, it's not that simple, it's not easy money, it's not protecting you from predators.
It's making a pact with the devil.
Fame is the monster that will kill.
I'm surprised the BBC are the ones doing the expose as their agenda for the summer is Satanic, or could this actually kick start it. |
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As a foot note, a friend of mine modelled for DSs organisation, she did Sunday and Daily Sport shoots and a couple of his magazines she met him at a party in Essex and met other models. She was never offered the casting couch but was abused by her then boyfriend someone she loved and never dobbed on him but he had so much power over her through her love for him. Fortunately for her he passed away, she now lives happily single with their son.
It's a battle for survival, only the strong survive. |
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"
I think you'll find I do understand the abuse of power, my point is the false accusers spoil the argument for the genuine abused.
"
Statistically, the false accusers are so low to be almost a rounding error. Yet, you mention the same old troupe that gets played out every time a woman is brave enough to come forward.
Follow the evidence, not the cliches. |
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"
I think you'll find I do understand the abuse of power, my point is the false accusers spoil the argument for the genuine abused.
Statistically, the false accusers are so low to be almost a rounding error. Yet, you mention the same old troupe that gets played out every time a woman is brave enough to come forward.
Follow the evidence, not the cliches."
I prefer to keep an open mind, stats are stats not evidence. |
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By *it62Man 2 days ago
leeds/Bradford |
"I prefer to keep an open mind, stats are stats not evidence.
Follow the evidence… that’s what I said. "
Evidence? Sure, if there is any
In this case it is he said, she said....nothing more (at the moment)
I am confident that he is guilty but there is no proof at this moment
We will see if this does develop but in my opinion unless something more comes to light then he will have a tarnished reputation and little more.
The factor for WHU fans is whether he has damaged the club
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"I prefer to keep an open mind, stats are stats not evidence.
Follow the evidence… that’s what I said.
Evidence? Sure, if there is any
In this case it is he said, she said....nothing more (at the moment)
I am confident that he is guilty but there is no proof at this moment
We will see if this does develop but in my opinion unless something more comes to light then he will have a tarnished reputation and little more.
The factor for WHU fans is whether he has damaged the club
"
TBH Both of what they are saying is evidence. One of things that annoys right thinking people is that women's statement of the facts is not accepted as evidence in an allegation of sexual offences. Whereas if her allegation was that an item was taken, her statement would be seen as more credible and as evidence. Of course both statements at that point have not been tested in court, but technically they are evidence.
For me the main issue is whether any crimimal offence occurred at the time. I am not sure that back in the day, asking for sexual favours (if you did not hold an official position) was an offence. It was immoral behaviour but possibly not illegal. Which is why I suspect they are using the are using "the not fit and proper person" clause.
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Always made me wonder about Tony Livesey moving to the BBC, first local news and then a stalwart of R5. Always seemed a strange shift from where he started. He now denies being involved in the countdown to 16.
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