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Mad Frankie Fraser
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Ohhhh and this will not be a popular post - his poor son and family - whom I know personally   "
I've met him a couple of times and he was quite engaging. From the wrong side of the river though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Will I be taken to task for saying Good Riddance? Wasn't he an enforcer for either the Krays or, I believe, the Richardsons - who were even worse than the Krays? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic. "
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him???? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic.
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him????"
Dunno...must be some allure you've already made 3 posts  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic.
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him????
Dunno...must be some allure you've already made 3 posts "
Aware that many won't know who he is and the first couple of posters made him sound like a nice guy! Just trying to ensure anyone reading the post knows what a dangerous, vicious, thug this gangster was - and likely a murderer too |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic.
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him????
Dunno...must be some allure you've already made 3 posts
Aware that many won't know who he is and the first couple of posters made him sound like a nice guy! Just trying to ensure anyone reading the post knows what a dangerous, vicious, thug this gangster was - and likely a murderer too"
I didn't say he was a nice guy - I said I felt sorry for his family - don't put words in my mouth |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic.
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him????
Dunno...must be some allure you've already made 3 posts
Aware that many won't know who he is and the first couple of posters made him sound like a nice guy! Just trying to ensure anyone reading the post knows what a dangerous, vicious, thug this gangster was - and likely a murderer too
I didn't say he was a nice guy - I said I felt sorry for his family - don't put words in my mouth "
True. So, as you say you know his family, how do (did) you feel about him then? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic.
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him????
Dunno...must be some allure you've already made 3 posts
Aware that many won't know who he is and the first couple of posters made him sound like a nice guy! Just trying to ensure anyone reading the post knows what a dangerous, vicious, thug this gangster was - and likely a murderer too"
I said he was engaging not nice. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Pulling teeth out with pliers. Nice
That's pretty much what dentists do. Only with anaesthetic.
Slightly less painful! And hopefully they do it only when necessary!
The man was an animal. Why is anyone mourning him????
Dunno...must be some allure you've already made 3 posts
Aware that many won't know who he is and the first couple of posters made him sound like a nice guy! Just trying to ensure anyone reading the post knows what a dangerous, vicious, thug this gangster was - and likely a murderer too
I didn't say he was a nice guy - I said I felt sorry for his family - don't put words in my mouth
True. So, as you say you know his family, how do (did) you feel about him then?"
I never met him and know that his son was totally embarrassed by his reputation and actions but at the end of the day he was still his father and a grandfather. With my tin hatted head above the parapet yes the actions of that era were hard and cold and appear heartless - he did actually serve 46 years behind bars for his actions ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP"
This is my opinion too and thank you for saving me typing it ... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Google the Richardsons, who he enforced for. He was also suspected of murder.
One of the Richardson tricks, along with torturing people by using pliers to rip teeth out of their head, was to attach electrodes to blokes' bollocks and electrocute them.
Good old gangsters, eh? Sadly missed, it seems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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" Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladiess.
he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him"
ok I've edited/ highlighted but
I beg to differ ....
I'm sure his victims would say differently  |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Google the Richardsons, who he enforced for. He was also suspected of murder.
One of the Richardson tricks, along with torturing people by using pliers to rip teeth out of their head, was to attach electrodes to blokes' bollocks and electrocute them.
Good old gangsters, eh? Sadly missed, it seems."
He was a horrible bastard, hence his nickname. But engaging none the less. |
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By *nnyMan
over a year ago
Glasgow |
"Google the Richardsons, who he enforced for. He was also suspected of murder.
One of the Richardson tricks, along with torturing people by using pliers to rip teeth out of their head, was to attach electrodes to blokes' bollocks and electrocute them.
Good old gangsters, eh? Sadly missed, it seems."
Sounds a bit like what some GIs have been accused of in recent years. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Never met him but anyone who tortures and murders but claims to be operating on a code of ethical honour is a psychopath irrespective of who the victims are.
I don't wish anyone dead but can't really see the world being worse off now. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Well of course they would but you live by the sword, you die by the sword, or frankie frasers sword in this case. Doesn't make him a bad person, people like him kept a lot of the lower echelons of criminality in check, by the threat of violence yes but I'd rather them get hurt than the old lady walking home from the post office |
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A lot of the stuff written about these so called "urban hero's" is total hype. It's easy to terrorise a bloke who is tied to a chair, or already incapacitated.
The media has made more gangsters than the gangsters themselves
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief.... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one is saying he was a hero, a place in society yes but not a hero "
I don't believe there is. People like him exist in society but I think we aim to eradicate such sorts as we progress. Shame were not progressing quicker. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief...."
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief....
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for. "
I might disagree with many things about TB; But I wouldn't regard him as a psychopath |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP"
Of course they didn't. Diamond geezers to a man. What utter bollocks! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Diamond geezers are your words not mine. Until we live in world of peace and harmony where everybody loves each other and there is no crime then people like Frankie Fraser will have their place. I didn't say he was a hero or a diamond geezer. I didn't know the guy as I'm sure you didn't |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief....
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for.
I might disagree with many things about TB; But I wouldn't regard him as a psychopath "
This chap would beg to differ
In 2003, neuropsychologist Paul Brok argued that Prime Minister Tony Blair was a "plausible psychopath" who was ruthlessly ambitious, egocentric, and manipulative. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief....
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for.
I might disagree with many things about TB; But I wouldn't regard him as a psychopath
This chap would beg to differ
In 2003, neuropsychologist Paul Brok argued that Prime Minister Tony Blair was a "plausible psychopath" who was ruthlessly ambitious, egocentric, and manipulative. "
.
Sounds like the perfect credentials for a politician.
Best thing he ever did was that Iraq war mind. You could argue about how he went about it, but by jove did it need doing. |
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"No one is saying he was a hero, a place in society yes but not a hero "
Yes, a place in history; our country's criminal history. There is a certain romance connected to these old East end gangsters. |
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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago
Titz Towers, North Notts |
I wondered how many posts it would take before someone started talking about, 'how they kept the streets safe for old ladies, only used violence with other, worse criminals, diamond geezer, gave money to the old ex boxer's association'... or something along those lines.
Having read one of his (ghost written) books on London, he appears to have been a most odious individual who spent the part of his life not in prison making life unpleasant for most people he came across in one way or another.
Bad luck to his family, in more ways than one. |
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By *odareyouMan
over a year ago
not far from iceland,,,,,, tescos is nearer though :-) (near leeds) |
The bits I've read and seen on TV documentaries he seemed proud of the things he'd carried out...
I'm sure his passing will be mourned by some and welcomed by others |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP"
Housebreakers, bankrobbers, muggers...all paid these "hardmen". These hardmen didnt personally attack members of the general public or rob them, thats what the lower pondlife was for. It made them untouchable and kept a distance from the criminal activities. They were viscious, unfeeling bastards. And I dont care how much they loved their old mum gawd bless er.
You havent heard anyone say a bad word about him because they were too fucking scared! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well of course they would but you live by the sword, you die by the sword, or frankie frasers sword in this case. Doesn't make him a bad person, people like him kept a lot of the lower echelons of criminality in check, by the threat of violence yes but I'd rather them get hurt than the old lady walking home from the post office "
It was wankers like him that profited from the actions of the lower orders of criminals. Thats how gangsters work. They honestly dont give a shit if an old lady gets beaten up, as long its not their family. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief....
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for.
I might disagree with many things about TB; But I wouldn't regard him as a psychopath
This chap would beg to differ
In 2003, neuropsychologist Paul Brok argued that Prime Minister Tony Blair was a "plausible psychopath" who was ruthlessly ambitious, egocentric, and manipulative. "
For a supposed doctor, he should know better than make off pat diagnoses of people just from the decisions they made as a public figure. This "doctor" never even interviewed him. He may as well work on "This Morning". Eminently qualified. By this doctors rationale, every MP, Plutocrat, Billionaire and self made millionaire is a psychopath. Psychopathy is also very misunderstood and is used, mainly by the media and its hired "doctors", to frighten the public. Psycho sounds much sexier than single minded and determined doesnt it? |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief...."
. Well said . I don't have time for any form of criminal , whether their crime involves violence or financial fraud . These people are only interested in themselves and what they can get away with. Far too many people glamorise crime. I fail to understand the argument about protecting old ladies.   |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP
Housebreakers, bankrobbers, muggers...all paid these "hardmen". These hardmen didnt personally attack members of the general public or rob them, thats what the lower pondlife was for. It made them untouchable and kept a distance from the criminal activities. They were viscious, unfeeling bastards. And I dont care how much they loved their old mum gawd bless er.
You havent heard anyone say a bad word about him because they were too fucking scared!"
My thoughts exactly . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief....
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for.
I might disagree with many things about TB; But I wouldn't regard him as a psychopath
This chap would beg to differ
In 2003, neuropsychologist Paul Brok argued that Prime Minister Tony Blair was a "plausible psychopath" who was ruthlessly ambitious, egocentric, and manipulative.
For a supposed doctor, he should know better than make off pat diagnoses of people just from the decisions they made as a public figure. This "doctor" never even interviewed him. He may as well work on "This Morning". Eminently qualified. By this doctors rationale, every MP, Plutocrat, Billionaire and self made millionaire is a psychopath. Psychopathy is also very misunderstood and is used, mainly by the media and its hired "doctors", to frighten the public. Psycho sounds much sexier than single minded and determined doesnt it? "
Single minded or lacking empathy in how their behaviour affects others? Having no conscience or being able to switch it off is not a desirable trait. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No one is saying he was a hero, a place in society yes but not a hero
Yes, a place in history; our country's criminal history. There is a certain romance connected to these old East end gangsters. "
Which is shite too |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"No one is saying he was a hero, a place in society yes but not a hero
Yes, a place in history; our country's criminal history. There is a certain romance connected to these old East end gangsters. "
. I detest violence of any form , so find it hard to see how there can be a certain romance . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Aged 13, he attacked a member of staff in a borstal. He enforced, using torture, for the Krays and Richardsons. He led a prison riot. He attacked prison staff, attempting to hang one.
Even last year, he ended up with an ASBO for an argument over a chair at a residential home!
So, those who say they never heard a bad word about him, must have selective hearing!
Defies belief....
A handful of victims, dozens maybe, scores even.
Pales into insignificance with the number of victims Tony Blair is responsible for.
I might disagree with many things about TB; But I wouldn't regard him as a psychopath
This chap would beg to differ
In 2003, neuropsychologist Paul Brok argued that Prime Minister Tony Blair was a "plausible psychopath" who was ruthlessly ambitious, egocentric, and manipulative.
For a supposed doctor, he should know better than make off pat diagnoses of people just from the decisions they made as a public figure. This "doctor" never even interviewed him. He may as well work on "This Morning". Eminently qualified. By this doctors rationale, every MP, Plutocrat, Billionaire and self made millionaire is a psychopath. Psychopathy is also very misunderstood and is used, mainly by the media and its hired "doctors", to frighten the public. Psycho sounds much sexier than single minded and determined doesnt it?
Single minded or lacking empathy in how their behaviour affects others? Having no conscience or being able to switch it off is not a desirable trait. "
I never said it was desirable, but it is common. But psychopathy is very often confused with sociopathy. I was just pointing out Broks completely fraudulent diagnosis. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP
Housebreakers, bankrobbers, muggers...all paid these "hardmen". These hardmen didnt personally attack members of the general public or rob them, thats what the lower pondlife was for. It made them untouchable and kept a distance from the criminal activities. They were viscious, unfeeling bastards. And I dont care how much they loved their old mum gawd bless er.
You havent heard anyone say a bad word about him because they were too fucking scared!"
 MrsD |
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"They was a gentlemen in them days - always shook your hand before killing ya. They don't make 'em like that no more."
Been hearing this shite from misty-eyed wallies all my life. I grew up in the East End, and trust me most people round here know the Krays and Frankie Fraser and their like for what they were - bullies and parasites. The soppy fuckers that eulogise them, that buy their sanitised biographies and the old crap about them "only hurting their own" haven't got a clue. |
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It's a little known fact that during the 40s, 50s and 60s there was almost no crime.
This was the hay day of the Association & Guild of Gangsters A.G.O.G. ( as a side note this is the origin of the term "I was agog.)
To be a member of A.G.O.G. you had to be an outstanding member of your community and were not allowed to have a criminal record.
Once your application had been accepted, you were given a sum of money to carry out your business. You could aquire money from other A.G.O.G.s or lose money to other A.G.O.G.s.
Under no circumstances were you allowed to aquire money from innocent members of the public. Part of your duties was to give money to charity and escort any old lady that was out after dark.
No one knows where A.G.O.G got its money from but it most certainly not from innocent members of the public.
Members were all loved and respected by the community.
The end of A.G.O.G. was sudden and final. It's reputation was terminally damaged when two of its most senior guild members were heard to talk back to their mum.
After the collapse of the guild, crime started to spread in East London, eventually it spread to the whole world... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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All we need now is Babs Windsor saying what a luvvely fella he was, on prime time tv!
I, for one, reckon society is better off without the likes of Fraser |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a little known fact that during the 40s, 50s and 60s there was almost no crime.
This was the hay day of the Association & Guild of Gangsters A.G.O.G. ( as a side note this is the origin of the term "I was agog.)
To be a member of A.G.O.G. you had to be an outstanding member of your community and were not allowed to have a criminal record.
Once your application had been accepted, you were given a sum of money to carry out your business. You could aquire money from other A.G.O.G.s or lose money to other A.G.O.G.s.
Under no circumstances were you allowed to aquire money from innocent members of the public. Part of your duties was to give money to charity and escort any old lady that was out after dark.
No one knows where A.G.O.G got its money from but it most certainly not from innocent members of the public.
Members were all loved and respected by the community.
The end of A.G.O.G. was sudden and final. It's reputation was terminally damaged when two of its most senior guild members were heard to talk back to their mum.
After the collapse of the guild, crime started to spread in East London, eventually it spread to the whole world..."
Gawd bless 'em eh? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a little known fact that during the 40s, 50s and 60s there was almost no crime.
This was the hay day of the Association & Guild of Gangsters A.G.O.G. ( as a side note this is the origin of the term "I was agog.)
To be a member of A.G.O.G. you had to be an outstanding member of your community and were not allowed to have a criminal record.
Once your application had been accepted, you were given a sum of money to carry out your business. You could aquire money from other A.G.O.G.s or lose money to other A.G.O.G.s.
Under no circumstances were you allowed to aquire money from innocent members of the public. Part of your duties was to give money to charity and escort any old lady that was out after dark.
No one knows where A.G.O.G got its money from but it most certainly not from innocent members of the public.
Members were all loved and respected by the community.
The end of A.G.O.G. was sudden and final. It's reputation was terminally damaged when two of its most senior guild members were heard to talk back to their mum.
After the collapse of the guild, crime started to spread in East London, eventually it spread to the whole world..."
There's a fundamental difference between no crime and no recorded crime.No criminal record doesn't mean you weren't a criminal and acog I imagine , conducted criminal activity. As stated before this whole gentleman gangster notion is a romantic notion.
There's complete disrespect to politician's and their perceived fiddling of business and money. ...so why believe these thugs are worthy of admiration ? |
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"In my opinion old school gangsters and hard men had their place in society. Yes they are criminals and they hurt people but they didn't go round burgling houses and robbing old ladies did they. I'm sure Frankie Fraser was a lovely guy to his friends and family and only hurt those that deserved it for whatever reason, he didn't just beat up the average guy in the street, those he hurt were largely part of the underworld. Any old school gangster will tell you that things have changed and todays's criminals don't live by the same code. At least criminals new where they stood in his day. From the documentaries I've seen about him I've never heard anybody say a bad word about him. RIP"
I have to agree with the above, I myself in my younger days was mixed up in East end antics running clubs and working as a bouncer...I was in with certain people like Frankie.
I am friends with Dave Courtney who come to one of my awards with me & Kim and people wasn't sure wether to shake his hand or run in the opposite direction, Dave like Frankie as a reputation but is a thougherly nice guy who didn't hurt the civilian population only other gangsters.
Without some of these old style criminals this country or certain rough towns cities wouldn't have been as safe, even though they were hard men they didn't allow elderly/young/vulnerable to be hurt on their manors and the police would even liaise with them sometimes to find perpetrators who both them & the underworld didn't like.
I got out of this shit 25 yrs ago after having my windows/house shot to pieces by a rival gang, I now live a quite life knowing me and my kids/grand kids are safe as the modern criminal doesn't have the same etiquette and loyalty as these old style ones.
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"It's a little known fact that during the 40s, 50s and 60s there was almost no crime.
This was the hay day of the Association & Guild of Gangsters A.G.O.G. ( as a side note this is the origin of the term "I was agog.)
To be a member of A.G.O.G. you had to be an outstanding member of your community and were not allowed to have a criminal record.
Once your application had been accepted, you were given a sum of money to carry out your business. You could aquire money from other A.G.O.G.s or lose money to other A.G.O.G.s.
Under no circumstances were you allowed to aquire money from innocent members of the public. Part of your duties was to give money to charity and escort any old lady that was out after dark.
No one knows where A.G.O.G got its money from but it most certainly not from innocent members of the public.
Members were all loved and respected by the community.
The end of A.G.O.G. was sudden and final. It's reputation was terminally damaged when two of its most senior guild members were heard to talk back to their mum.
After the collapse of the guild, crime started to spread in East London, eventually it spread to the whole world...
There's a fundamental difference between no crime and no recorded crime.No criminal record doesn't mean you weren't a criminal and acog I imagine , conducted criminal activity. As stated before this whole gentleman gangster notion is a romantic notion.
There's complete disrespect to politician's and their perceived fiddling of business and money. ...so why believe these thugs are worthy of admiration ? "
Sorry, you do know that I was being sarcastic don't you???
Civilian population? Gangsters are civilians too. Just ones that think they have some special code of honour. So shooting up a house is ok if it is a fellow gangster. I'm sure that comforts the innocent victims injured by the fall out or mistaken identity.
In crime the money comes from innocent victims. It doesn't make you a top geeza just because you then take the ill gotten gains from another criminal. What about the victims of protection rackets or the owners of businesses taken over by drug dealers or forced out because the gangster wanted that business.
No matter which way you try and sugar coat it these people were nothing but bullies who took what they wanted and did as they pleased... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's a little known fact that during the 40s, 50s and 60s there was almost no crime.
This was the hay day of the Association & Guild of Gangsters A.G.O.G. ( as a side note this is the origin of the term "I was agog.)
To be a member of A.G.O.G. you had to be an outstanding member of your community and were not allowed to have a criminal record.
Once your application had been accepted, you were given a sum of money to carry out your business. You could aquire money from other A.G.O.G.s or lose money to other A.G.O.G.s.
Under no circumstances were you allowed to aquire money from innocent members of the public. Part of your duties was to give money to charity and escort any old lady that was out after dark.
No one knows where A.G.O.G got its money from but it most certainly not from innocent members of the public.
Members were all loved and respected by the community.
The end of A.G.O.G. was sudden and final. It's reputation was terminally damaged when two of its most senior guild members were heard to talk back to their mum.
After the collapse of the guild, crime started to spread in East London, eventually it spread to the whole world...
There's a fundamental difference between no crime and no recorded crime.No criminal record doesn't mean you weren't a criminal and acog I imagine , conducted criminal activity. As stated before this whole gentleman gangster notion is a romantic notion.
There's complete disrespect to politician's and their perceived fiddling of business and money. ...so why believe these thugs are worthy of admiration ?
Sorry, you do know that I was being sarcastic don't you???
Civilian population? Gangsters are civilians too. Just ones that think they have some special code of honour. So shooting up a house is ok if it is a fellow gangster. I'm sure that comforts the innocent victims injured by the fall out or mistaken identity.
In crime the money comes from innocent victims. It doesn't make you a top geeza just because you then take the ill gotten gains from another criminal. What about the victims of protection rackets or the owners of businesses taken over by drug dealers or forced out because the gangster wanted that business.
No matter which way you try and sugar coat it these people were nothing but bullies who took what they wanted and did as they pleased..."
I must apologise no I didn't immediately pick up on the tongue in cheek tone hence my post...sorry.
It's hard to believe that some of the other comments were serious justifications though ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I come from a quiet little fishing village on the River Clyde so violence and "gangsters" is not something I have witnessed. Especially during the 20odd years I worked as a bouncer and fought in boxing arenas all over the town.
The Guv'nors of London's East End were a breed beyond the norm. They were callous vicious thugs who were a law unto themselves and heaven help anyone who stood in their way.
Frankie Fraser was only a big guy because he had the muscle behind him and the balls to carry out the threat. Without his backers he was a petty crook who likely would have had his throat slit years ago.
That's how these guys operated people like the Richardsons and the Krats were no better than your everyday Chav today, society and the media blew them up into thinking they were something bigger and the public believed it.
A thug is a thug and by no other description.
Today reputation goes for nothing, especially where I live. Guys who thought they were big 10-20 years ago are now prisoners in their own home because young parasites want to make a name off slicing them open
Nah "Mad" Frankie was a tool and would not have got in any door I worked in |
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