FabSwingers.com > Forums > The Lounge > BDSM, Marina Abramovic, the stanford prison experiment and freedom
BDSM, Marina Abramovic, the stanford prison experiment and freedom
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"There's a lot to comment on. My first comment is though that as a submissive I don't feel inferior. My point is that I have control of the safe words, not the Dominant. So I control if play stops or is less intense not him/her. I think many submissives (not all) have lots to control in everyday life. Handing it over to someone else, allows them to just enjoy an experience without planning/thinking. I will probably write more as others comment. Sarah " I agree 100% with your third paragraph as i refered to it its a lifting of a burden at times. Safewords etc are of course differnt but equally the stabford expefiment and Marina Abramovic's performances were consent based and could have been ended whenever. But nether time did the submissive partner end it. How often gave you used your safe word? (This of course can be 0 because you felt you couldn't or because your dom is simply good and knows when youre teaching your limit before it ever becomes and issue or other options) But i will ask as as a couple we have the chance to get both sides, As the sub why do you expect ot want pain as part of your submission? As the dom why do you wish to inflict it? (If either question makes either of you uncomfortable please dont hesitate to not answer or to say so i know not everything even if discussed between yourselves is meant for public consumption) | |||
"You're more talking about sadists and masochists rather than sub/doms as a vast majority have no interest in pain. " Nearly all BDSM scenes and clubs ive seen have uncved spanking floging etc. But as i mentioned degredarion too. Kneeling crawling bowing etc is often expected. But why is it thatbwhen given freedom and power over others do humans hurt them | |||
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" Why isbit when humans gove up control give thier freedom to another it ends universally in degredarion and violence. " It doesn't, not with true dominants, with the power comes the responsibility. If it ends up in degradation and violence and abuse etc, (and I mean those words OUT of italics, not play scene stuff) then one or other of the dom/sub pairing were not dom/sub. | |||
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"You're more talking about sadists and masochists rather than sub/doms as a vast majority have no interest in pain. Nearly all BDSM scenes and clubs ive seen have uncved spanking floging etc. But as i mentioned degredarion too. Kneeling crawling bowing etc is often expected. But why is it thatbwhen given freedom and power over others do humans hurt them " Because the other party wants them to. That's not my experience, for the most it's not about being hurt it's being punished for misgivings or some such. However there are some that get off on giving pain. I enjoy both sides but only when someone wants it.....otherwise that's a prison sentence. | |||
"Fascinated by submissive women. Not sure it is about moral character but likely linked to evolution development that is not much use in the modern world. Still learning so no I am not a dom or master or whatever buzz word is used "Ok so dan I'll ask you a question try to answer honestly rather than how you want to be perceived or if you feel uncomfortable feel free not to. You meet a woman her desire is to do whatever you wish. To gives up full control to you whatever you say or command she will do sexual or otherwise. You are in a room nice house in the country never will there be any repercussions of your actions (ie of you hurt her she will never tell anyone etc) What would you take with you to the meet? What would you ask her to do? What would you do to her? And finaly assuming she carries our every instruction perfectly would you make scenerios where shes doomed to lose and face punishment no matter how well she does? | |||
"You're more talking about sadists and masochists rather than sub/doms as a vast majority have no interest in pain. Nearly all BDSM scenes and clubs ive seen have uncved spanking floging etc. But as i mentioned degredarion too. Kneeling crawling bowing etc is often expected. But why is it thatbwhen given freedom and power over others do humans hurt them Because the other party wants them to. That's not my experience, for the most it's not about being hurt it's being punished for misgivings or some such. However there are some that get off on giving pain. I enjoy both sides but only when someone wants it.....otherwise that's a prison sentence. " But they dont. Thats whag im saying stop focusing ourely on the bdsm in the stanford exerrment and with mrs abroamovic there was no desire for suffering from the submissives it was imposed upon them. | |||
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" Why isbit when humans gove up control give thier freedom to another it ends universally in degredarion and violence. It doesn't, not with true dominants, with the power comes the responsibility. If it ends up in degradation and violence and abuse etc, (and I mean those words OUT of italics, not play scene stuff) then one or other of the dom/sub pairing were not dom/sub." But as was raised before in bdsm there is no true giving up of power due to safe words etc Its tempoary with limtis. But on a wider scale, it does often end up in grotesque abuses. (See concentration camp guards or even the army gaurds in iraq) People seem.to be heading for the defensive in force here focusing ourely on the bdsm part please google ms abromovic and the stanford experiment for the wider pciture. I brought bdsm into it as its the rare time choice is involved by both parties. But what we associate with bdsm is whips chains and colars etc. Im atempting to work out if this is because as humans we associate submission with suffering. | |||
"You're more talking about sadists and masochists rather than sub/doms as a vast majority have no interest in pain. Nearly all BDSM scenes and clubs ive seen have uncved spanking floging etc. But as i mentioned degredarion too. Kneeling crawling bowing etc is often expected. But why is it thatbwhen given freedom and power over others do humans hurt them Because the other party wants them to. That's not my experience, for the most it's not about being hurt it's being punished for misgivings or some such. However there are some that get off on giving pain. I enjoy both sides but only when someone wants it.....otherwise that's a prison sentence. But they dont. Thats whag im saying stop focusing ourely on the bdsm in the stanford exerrment and with mrs abroamovic there was no desire for suffering from the submissives it was imposed upon them." You can't compare the 2. At all. | |||
"I am an adult who understand my legal and moral obligations to the woman and wider society. For me my limitations would cut off long before your scenario suggests. Not everyone needs to go 110 percent to enjoy life." What scenario? I suggested nothing for your actions. The last question was mearly that ive noticed a "too good" submissive is often goven imposibke tasks to that they may be punished. Because the punishment is part of it. The submisuve wants it but equally wants to do as theyrw told sonit becomes tbe ohligation of the dom to make sure they fail to fulfill the desire of thier submissive | |||
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"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place." They're not the same. One is about consent the other isn't. One is about exertion power because they can, the other is a legitimate power exchange. | |||
"You're more talking about sadists and masochists rather than sub/doms as a vast majority have no interest in pain. Nearly all BDSM scenes and clubs ive seen have uncved spanking floging etc. But as i mentioned degredarion too. Kneeling crawling bowing etc is often expected. But why is it thatbwhen given freedom and power over others do humans hurt them Because the other party wants them to. That's not my experience, for the most it's not about being hurt it's being punished for misgivings or some such. However there are some that get off on giving pain. I enjoy both sides but only when someone wants it.....otherwise that's a prison sentence. But they dont. Thats whag im saying stop focusing ourely on the bdsm in the stanford exerrment and with mrs abroamovic there was no desire for suffering from the submissives it was imposed upon them. You can't compare the 2. At all. " Why all three are purely optional, all three could have been ended at any time. All three 1 party gave up control to then other. The main differnce being the lack of afection for the other half in the expeiment and exhibition times. Whcih I feel is key. | |||
"I am an adult who understand my legal and moral obligations to the woman and wider society. For me my limitations would cut off long before your scenario suggests. Not everyone needs to go 110 percent to enjoy life. What scenario? I suggested nothing for your actions. The last question was mearly that ive noticed a "too good" submissive is often goven imposibke tasks to that they may be punished. Because the punishment is part of it. The submisuve wants it but equally wants to do as theyrw told sonit becomes tbe ohligation of the dom to make sure they fail to fulfill the desire of thier submissive " You were kind enough to provide the isolated country house and compliant woman. I will add to it with my aston martin and a cruel sneer as I harshly order the wench to make me a brew  | |||
"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place. They're not the same. One is about consent the other isn't. One is about exertion power because they can, the other is a legitimate power exchange. " All are consentual though. No one was forced in any of them | |||
"I am an adult who understand my legal and moral obligations to the woman and wider society. For me my limitations would cut off long before your scenario suggests. Not everyone needs to go 110 percent to enjoy life. What scenario? I suggested nothing for your actions. The last question was mearly that ive noticed a "too good" submissive is often goven imposibke tasks to that they may be punished. Because the punishment is part of it. The submisuve wants it but equally wants to do as theyrw told sonit becomes tbe ohligation of the dom to make sure they fail to fulfill the desire of thier submissive You were kind enough to provide the isolated country house and compliant woman. I will add to it with my aston martin and a cruel sneer as I harshly order the wench to make me a brew "I wanted to remove any pedantic veriables people could come up with. If you dont feel comfortable discusing your desires that is fine i am not going to intrude. I was just curious what a domanint would do with a submisuve fiven the range of option. I find those who want to dable but have not had the chance often fantasise more and so can actually come up with more pure answers. | |||
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"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited?" I'm genuinely struggling to understand the point of the post. Are you asking if there were no consequences and non feeling toward someone how far would they go? | |||
"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place." But there was no authority in the art exhibition. No cameras no phones no audience. My interest is simply the human interaction. I did expect people to head isntantly to the defensive hence my disclaimer at the top and my anouncement of my self as a submisive to trynand avoid the side tracking and strawmanning that was inevitable | |||
"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx "  | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? I'm genuinely struggling to understand the point of the post. Are you asking if there were no consequences and non feeling toward someone how far would they go?" There isnt a point. As i said i have no conclusion its musings. | |||
"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place. But there was no authority in the art exhibition. No cameras no phones no audience. My interest is simply the human interaction. I did expect people to head isntantly to the defensive hence my disclaimer at the top and my anouncement of my self as a submisive to trynand avoid the side tracking and strawmanning that was inevitable " You keep saying defensive. No one I can see is defensive just trying to find out what you are trying to get to | |||
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"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place. But there was no authority in the art exhibition. No cameras no phones no audience. My interest is simply the human interaction. I did expect people to head isntantly to the defensive hence my disclaimer at the top and my anouncement of my self as a submisive to trynand avoid the side tracking and strawmanning that was inevitable " Defence? What is defensive? No ulterior motive here. But, seriously, the Stanford experiment? | |||
"I think we need to help people understand that a Dom is not always a sadist, and a sub is not always a masochist. I think those of us that are involved in bdsm know what a colourful tapestry it is, but sadly those on the outside have no reference point other than 50 shades and personal services. We hear a lot of crap talked about bdsm, true doms, true subs, if you have to tell people your a Dom you're not, you're not a real sub if I can't beat you, it's all bullshit, people in the lifestyle can access a myriad of fantasies and sensations, some things you will like, others you won't, but just because someone doesn't fit what you like doesn't make them any less of a Dom/sub than someone who does fit. We need to make changes, and like any other communities we need to start with education, we should all seek out resources, arm ourselves with knowledge, and then maybe, just maybe we can work on the worlds image of angry middle aged women with whips, and string vest clad men with little sense of humour who just want to beat women and get away with it. Bdsm is controversial, it looks sick and twisted from the outside, and it so closely resembles violence it almost takes a trained eye to see its not, but unless we educate ourselves and others, the people who are about to come into the lifestyle, are going to believe what they see from the outside, and be faced with a whole heap of trouble. So, if you are into bdsm, and someone you know has questions, don't just fob them off, but don't let them think that the way you do things, is the way everyone does things. Bdsm looks dangerous, it can be, but I for one have never felt safer, than when I'm in the company of those that are considered perverts. Bdsm is great fun, and there is more emphasis on self control, consent and safety than in a church. I will always fight for my right to be a Dom, and I will always fight for the lifestyle, because it's worth fighting for" thank you very well put xx | |||
"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx " You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" | |||
"I think we need to help people understand that a Dom is not always a sadist, and a sub is not always a masochist. I think those of us that are involved in bdsm know what a colourful tapestry it is, but sadly those on the outside have no reference point other than 50 shades and personal services. We hear a lot of crap talked about bdsm, true doms, true subs, if you have to tell people your a Dom you're not, you're not a real sub if I can't beat you, it's all bullshit, people in the lifestyle can access a myriad of fantasies and sensations, some things you will like, others you won't, but just because someone doesn't fit what you like doesn't make them any less of a Dom/sub than someone who does fit. We need to make changes, and like any other communities we need to start with education, we should all seek out resources, arm ourselves with knowledge, and then maybe, just maybe we can work on the worlds image of angry middle aged women with whips, and string vest clad men with little sense of humour who just want to beat women and get away with it. Bdsm is controversial, it looks sick and twisted from the outside, and it so closely resembles violence it almost takes a trained eye to see its not, but unless we educate ourselves and others, the people who are about to come into the lifestyle, are going to believe what they see from the outside, and be faced with a whole heap of trouble. So, if you are into bdsm, and someone you know has questions, don't just fob them off, but don't let them think that the way you do things, is the way everyone does things. Bdsm looks dangerous, it can be, but I for one have never felt safer, than when I'm in the company of those that are considered perverts. Bdsm is great fun, and there is more emphasis on self control, consent and safety than in a church. I will always fight for my right to be a Dom, and I will always fight for the lifestyle, because it's worth fighting for" | |||
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"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place. But there was no authority in the art exhibition. No cameras no phones no audience. My interest is simply the human interaction. I did expect people to head isntantly to the defensive hence my disclaimer at the top and my anouncement of my self as a submisive to trynand avoid the side tracking and strawmanning that was inevitable You keep saying defensive. No one I can see is defensive just trying to find out what you are trying to get to " Not gettign at anything its mearly some musings on human behaviour given we've got a group here that has a fairly unique aspect to have engaged in this kind of activity beyond the norm. Ask moetnpeople if theyve ever given up completebpower to the point of accepting being beaten, cut or burnt to another human and yo u will get a respunding no. Here we have a lot of people who will say yes. So im curiout why the subs want it and why the domswabt to do it. Thats all. Personally i will admit its because im hoping and searching for a deeper answer tthan pain and suffering can cause a chemically pleasurable response. Because more and more as life goes on my nihilistic chemically based views depress me and anythign any answers greater than were basic machines that respond predictably to stimuli gives me hope | |||
"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me"" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x | |||
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"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place. But there was no authority in the art exhibition. No cameras no phones no audience. My interest is simply the human interaction. I did expect people to head isntantly to the defensive hence my disclaimer at the top and my anouncement of my self as a submisive to trynand avoid the side tracking and strawmanning that was inevitable You keep saying defensive. No one I can see is defensive just trying to find out what you are trying to get to Not gettign at anything its mearly some musings on human behaviour given we've got a group here that has a fairly unique aspect to have engaged in this kind of activity beyond the norm. Ask moetnpeople if theyve ever given up completebpower to the point of accepting being beaten, cut or burnt to another human and yo u will get a respunding no. Here we have a lot of people who will say yes. So im curiout why the subs want it and why the domswabt to do it. Thats all. Personally i will admit its because im hoping and searching for a deeper answer tthan pain and suffering can cause a chemically pleasurable response. Because more and more as life goes on my nihilistic chemically based views depress me and anythign any answers greater than were basic machines that respond predictably to stimuli gives me hope " Why does it have to be more than that. Other than because I enjoy hurting people which isn't really socially acceptable is it. | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited?" Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist | |||
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"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist " She's very famous, Abramovic. Even Lady Gaga tweeted about her, and James Franco is one of her best friends. And she appeared in Sex and the City. | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist " Or people already knew it but didn't need to Google it. | |||
"The prison experiment and others are more unsettling but are these relevant to BDSM ? I see those as about the way we want to conform to perceived authority structures when sometimes those structures are not in place. But there was no authority in the art exhibition. No cameras no phones no audience. My interest is simply the human interaction. I did expect people to head isntantly to the defensive hence my disclaimer at the top and my anouncement of my self as a submisive to trynand avoid the side tracking and strawmanning that was inevitable You keep saying defensive. No one I can see is defensive just trying to find out what you are trying to get to Not gettign at anything its mearly some musings on human behaviour given we've got a group here that has a fairly unique aspect to have engaged in this kind of activity beyond the norm. Ask moetnpeople if theyve ever given up completebpower to the point of accepting being beaten, cut or burnt to another human and yo u will get a respunding no. Here we have a lot of people who will say yes. So im curiout why the subs want it and why the domswabt to do it. Thats all. Personally i will admit its because im hoping and searching for a deeper answer tthan pain and suffering can cause a chemically pleasurable response. Because more and more as life goes on my nihilistic chemically based views depress me and anythign any answers greater than were basic machines that respond predictably to stimuli gives me hope Why does it have to be more than that. Other than because I enjoy hurting people which isn't really socially acceptable is it. " Because of the exact reason I just explained there? 
Im hoping for more.
Heck look at my pictures im hardly unfamiliar with the base concept of pain can be used to control neurological chemical balances.
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"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x" Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? | |||
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"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist " I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. | |||
"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? " because i had two consecutive dreams of total submissive state and felt true feminine power as a full body experience ..it was non sexual and i glowed with power...and i wanted to see if i could replicate that in real life by passing over my masculine will/ decision making/ trust and clearing myself of all veils to it, in real life. i also wanted to see if sub space was like dreaming awake, which 'seers' use for visions. i have found both are possible and i have expanded my awareness and my perception of life, being a female and what it is to be human, through these experiences x i am still on that journey and i find unexpected veils to my authenticity through my experiences..i am after totality of self and freedom from those veils, so i may walk it in the world...you did ask | |||
"I'm not into pain. I'm not into being owned. I am not into the BDSM scene. However, every once in a while I will gift my sexual submission to someone because it gives me pleasure to pleasure someone. OP, I think your musings are interesting. At some point a line is crossed and I think the consent can become difficult to police. In the two examples you cite, how much does the group dynamics drive what happens? The person with the most extreme desires AND the strongest desire to test them presses others on to do more than they intended and more than they perhaps enjoyed. " First pragraph i can completely relate to. There is a pleasure to be had from the derivation of anothers pleasure from you. (As a personal aside and feel free to pm/decline if you don't want to publically say it, do you find part of the pleasure comes from the fact that it is purely your body and physical form that youve submited to them that gives them the pleasure. Ie its not your mind your thoughts or personality that they are enjoying but only your body and comanded actions) Second paragraph again yes group dynamics olay a huge role i feel especialy when looked at with larger scale and far darker non consensual situations where one persons peraonality may motivate lots of others to do thjngs the th would not normaly do | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished." Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments " Rape still occurs as a weapon of war. Perhaps detaching rape from sexual gratification would see it's not really BDSM related. | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments " I am still at a loss. | |||
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"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? because i had two consecutive dreams of total submissive state and felt true feminine power as a full body experience ..it was non sexual and i glowed with power...and i wanted to see if i could replicate that in real life by passing over my masculine will/ decision making/ trust and clearing myself of all veils to it, in real life. i also wanted to see if sub space was like dreaming awake, which 'seers' use for visions. i have found both are possible and i have expanded my awareness and my perception of life, being a female and what it is to be human, through these experiences x i am still on that journey and i find unexpected veils to my authenticity through my experiences..i am after totality of self and freedom from those veils, so i may walk it in the world...you did ask "Thats genuinly fascinating and much more honest than i expected. I wil happily apologise for assuming you'd make some evasive or vapid response. I know you take a far more spiritual view to the world than myself (and i think we've argued, well I've been an ass about it, it in the last). So id like to ask why you define 5he decision making as masculine and feminine. Also how did you rjnd subspace as ive foundeven extremes of violence have never elicited such a repsonse in my body. I found it no diffetnt to any other severely traumatic (asnin the physical/medical sense of truma not emotional) experence | |||
"I am not Dom or sub, but know a few couples that either live or play BDSM games, none that I know could be called cruel, sometimes there are bruises but never on show. I also unfortunately know some abusive relationships. they are a long way from BDSM. Any one who tries to dominate me will fail, any one who tries to be submissive to me will fail, But I do love equals, and that can mean I would enjoy either scenario for half an hour here and there." As an asinine reaponse to this post do you think the tbe gaurds of a concentration camp would have failed in dominating you? | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments Rape still occurs as a weapon of war. Perhaps detaching rape from sexual gratification would see it's not really BDSM related. " I never did associate it with rape. That is your implication, i inferred no such thing | |||
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"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments I am still at a loss." Thats ok its a confusing and distressing subject and im not tbe moset elequent of people (effluent maybe :p). Basicaly i was trying to chose example which would not imediatley create a negative emptional reaponse in people so we didnt get dragged down some side track. Same as I try to always rule out pedantic repsonses and loop hoels in scenarios. | |||
"I am not Dom or sub, but know a few couples that either live or play BDSM games, none that I know could be called cruel, sometimes there are bruises but never on show. I also unfortunately know some abusive relationships. they are a long way from BDSM. Any one who tries to dominate me will fail, any one who tries to be submissive to me will fail, But I do love equals, and that can mean I would enjoy either scenario for half an hour here and there. As an asinine reaponse to this post do you think the tbe gaurds of a concentration camp would have failed in dominating you?" No they wouldn't, they could of course kill me, but not dominate me. | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments Rape still occurs as a weapon of war. Perhaps detaching rape from sexual gratification would see it's not really BDSM related. I never did associate it with rape. That is your implication, i inferred no such thing " I wasn't having a go at you? You mentioned punishment rape and talked about other types of cruelty performed to people under the BDSM blanket, I just don't think war rape stuff is a red herring. | |||
"You mention a few nasty parts of history, in most of those examples fear was the dominant reason behind the cruelty. So de-humanising and barbaric behaviour was used to control a greater force of de-humanised people to prevent them retaliating. that is nothing like BDSM" But the people opressed were never tbe greater force.. They're where always inferior. Unless youngele the jews ot Chinese where supirior in force to the germans or Japanese. And again I am not comparing bdsm to them. I am merely saying bdsm gives us a window intonthe consentual transference of power not the unconsenntual transference So i was thinking it would be interesting to compare the consentual and unconsenntual trasferenfe of power to see how the outcome differed or how they were the same. Ws it lets us see if it isnthe consent or the tarnasfernece of power that determins the outocme. If you understand me. Ie if ingive you power over a nonconsenting individual Will you treat them differntly to a consenting individual. I hope this explain it better | |||
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"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments I am still at a loss. Thats ok its a confusing and distressing subject and im not tbe moset elequent of people (effluent maybe :p). Basicaly i was trying to chose example which would not imediatley create a negative emptional reaponse in people so we didnt get dragged down some side track. Same as I try to always rule out pedantic repsonses and loop hoels in scenarios. " My response was not pedantic. You picked a very well known and very well criticised experiment. That is bound to produce a negative response. Your premise is flawed (as far as I understand your premise). Is it not really just a question of you trying to justify some view that you have of the world? I am really not trying to be contradictive. I just don't really understand where you are coming from. Others clealy do, so it must just be me. | |||
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"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments Rape still occurs as a weapon of war. Perhaps detaching rape from sexual gratification would see it's not really BDSM related. I never did associate it with rape. That is your implication, i inferred no such thing I wasn't having a go at you? You mentioned punishment rape and talked about other types of cruelty performed to people under the BDSM blanket, I just don't think war rape stuff is a red herring. " Ahh sorry mk in dont mean war rape i mean punishement/corrective rape. There is a segment of society that thinks raping lesbians will make them straight seperate to the war rape as its common inslu5h africa etc. | |||
"I feel your comparisons to prison camps of any kind is a red herring. The intention there is to use extreem force to quell a greater power, in almost all cases the prisoners outnumber the guards, and therefore the guards are fearful. I am pretty sure that is rarely the case in BDSM" But they dont. The jews didnt not out number out gun or out power the 3rd rich in any way shape or form | |||
"You mention a few nasty parts of history, in most of those examples fear was the dominant reason behind the cruelty. So de-humanising and barbaric behaviour was used to control a greater force of de-humanised people to prevent them retaliating. that is nothing like BDSM But the people opressed were never tbe greater force.. They're where always inferior. Unless youngele the jews ot Chinese where supirior in force to the germans or Japanese. And again I am not comparing bdsm to them. I am merely saying bdsm gives us a window intonthe consentual transference of power not the unconsenntual transference So i was thinking it would be interesting to compare the consentual and unconsenntual trasferenfe of power to see how the outcome differed or how they were the same. Ws it lets us see if it isnthe consent or the tarnasfernece of power that determins the outocme. If you understand me. Ie if ingive you power over a nonconsenting individual Will you treat them differntly to a consenting individual. I hope this explain it better " Maybe. There's not a yes or no answer. Sometimes the hive mind takes control, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes an individual acts solo. People can still say no to doing bad things to others despite peer pressure or being instructed to do something by an authority figure. | |||
"I feel your comparisons to prison camps of any kind is a red herring. The intention there is to use extreem force to quell a greater power, in almost all cases the prisoners outnumber the guards, and therefore the guards are fearful. I am pretty sure that is rarely the case in BDSM g But they dont. The jews didnt not out number out gun or out power the 3rd rich in any way shape or form" There were often hundreds of prisoners guarded by tens of guards, Forget the nation behind the guards 1 man stood at the gate with a rifle capable of killing 5 or 6 with 100 still coming. fear is not control | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments I am still at a loss. Thats ok its a confusing and distressing subject and im not tbe moset elequent of people (effluent maybe :p). Basicaly i was trying to chose example which would not imediatley create a negative emptional reaponse in people so we didnt get dragged down some side track. Same as I try to always rule out pedantic repsonses and loop hoels in scenarios. My response was not pedantic. You picked a very well known and very well criticised experiment. That is bound to produce a negative response. Your premise is flawed (as far as I understand your premise). Is it not really just a question of you trying to justify some view that you have of the world? I am really not trying to be contradictive. I just don't really understand where you are coming from. Others clealy do, so it must just be me." Nonj want implying you where being pedantic just that any internet argument will come down to pedantry every quickly. It was a quock and dirty exmaple if im honest that was more.plaetable than real world reaults of dehumanisation. Im just curious about how people react to somone udner thier absolute control. I csnt think of angbtime it ends up positive if yoh see what i mean. But bdsm.is unique in thatbits consentual from the "victim/submisive" side So it can gjve a unique insight. To why humans consent to harm. As i said part of me.hopes it somthign more .than "pain can feel good" | |||
"I feel your comparisons to prison camps of any kind is a red herring. The intention there is to use extreem force to quell a greater power, in almost all cases the prisoners outnumber the guards, and therefore the guards are fearful. I am pretty sure that is rarely the case in BDSM g But they dont. The jews didnt not out number out gun or out power the 3rd rich in any way shape or form There were often hundreds of prisoners guarded by tens of guards, Forget the nation behind the guards 1 man stood at the gate with a rifle capable of killing 5 or 6 with 100 still coming. fear is not control" A mG3 would kill.way more than 5 or 6. As evidenced by them being used to kill hundreds with neck shots as they lay in mass graves waiting to die | |||
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"*shouldnt be over ruled not she. " Of course consent is vital in bdsm. Which hou must admit makes it intersting that the outcome.is often simmilar to non consentual situations (initially at least befor it becomes extreme) Do you think the similarity comes fromt he dom orthe sub side | |||
"I'm not into pain. I'm not into being owned. I am not into the BDSM scene. However, every once in a while I will gift my sexual submission to someone because it gives me pleasure to pleasure someone. OP, I think your musings are interesting. At some point a line is crossed and I think the consent can become difficult to police. In the two examples you cite, how much does the group dynamics drive what happens? The person with the most extreme desires AND the strongest desire to test them presses others on to do more than they intended and more than they perhaps enjoyed. First pragraph i can completely relate to. There is a pleasure to be had from the derivation of anothers pleasure from you. (As a personal aside and feel free to pm/decline if you don't want to publically say it, do you find part of the pleasure comes from the fact that it is purely your body and physical form that youve submited to them that gives them the pleasure. Ie its not your mind your thoughts or personality that they are enjoying but only your body and comanded actions) Second paragraph again yes group dynamics olay a huge role i feel especialy when looked at with larger scale and far darker non consensual situations where one persons peraonality may motivate lots of others to do thjngs the th would not normaly do" Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more. | |||
"Some of what you are saying is about abusing power. There will always be sections of society who will, unfortunately that's human nature. Some of what you are saying reminded me of Lord of the Flies where they think there is a beast on the island. There isn't. The only beast is each persons inner dark side. I've read about the experiment in 1974 and noticed that this time she won't be putting objects out for people to use on her. And with regards to consent. That she never been over-ruled. If someone hasn't given consent for something to happen in play, it shouldn't. Many have hard limits and they aren't up for negotiation, they're there and respected. Not sure that makes sense, but it's hard to put across in writing. Sarah " .yes the whole . subject is very difficult in text without context or being there in person to give tone etc | |||
" A mG3 would kill.way more than 5 or 6. " Not a practicle weapon for patrolling. but even if it was averagely trained soldiers get about 1 kill per 25 rounds, so you have no bullets after 10 people are killed, an they can cover 50 yards in less than 10 seconds, 100 to one you are still afraid with an MG3 | |||
"I am not Dom or sub, but know a few couples that either live or play BDSM games, none that I know could be called cruel, sometimes there are bruises but never on show. I also unfortunately know some abusive relationships. they are a long way from BDSM. Any one who tries to dominate me will fail, any one who tries to be submissive to me will fail, But I do love equals, and that can mean I would enjoy either scenario for half an hour here and there." | |||
"I'm not into pain. I'm not into being owned. I am not into the BDSM scene. However, every once in a while I will gift my sexual submission to someone because it gives me pleasure to pleasure someone. OP, I think your musings are interesting. At some point a line is crossed and I think the consent can become difficult to police. In the two examples you cite, how much does the group dynamics drive what happens? The person with the most extreme desires AND the strongest desire to test them presses others on to do more than they intended and more than they perhaps enjoyed. First pragraph i can completely relate to. There is a pleasure to be had from the derivation of anothers pleasure from you. (As a personal aside and feel free to pm/decline if you don't want to publically say it, do you find part of the pleasure comes from the fact that it is purely your body and physical form that youve submited to them that gives them the pleasure. Ie its not your mind your thoughts or personality that they are enjoying but only your body and comanded actions) Second paragraph again yes group dynamics olay a huge role i feel especialy when looked at with larger scale and far darker non consensual situations where one persons peraonality may motivate lots of others to do thjngs the th would not normaly do Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more." I found simmilar in my experiments. Out of cuiosity did you find it becuasw of a sense of pride that your physical form was so desired snd capable of bringing them pelasure that it was pleasurable And that mentally it was too mucb an expectation from somone unworthy (for want of a better word) that while they maybbe eoth your ndly they never quite passed the bar for your mind. | |||
" A mG3 would kill.way more than 5 or 6. Not a practicle weapon for patrolling. but even if it was averagely trained soldiers get about 1 kill per 25 rounds, so you have no bullets after 10 people are killed, an they can cover 50 yards in less than 10 seconds, 100 to one you are still afraid with an MG3" Its what was used to execute jews They lay down in lits a man walked behind the n fjred onenround into thier necks. Another row lay on top of them Another round to each neck. The large magazine made it practicle | |||
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"If every person who had control over another person wanted to humiliate and dominate them then schools would be blood baths, " Ever spoken to a person who went to school when corprwl punshment was legal? My mummtalks of one teacher who would smack every pupil at the start of every lesson as a warning. | |||
"If every person who had control over another person wanted to humiliate and dominate them then schools would be blood baths, children would never grow up sane and doctors would be butchers. I appreciate that children don't give up control, they just have to deal with it because parents and teachers are authority figures... But what about with doctors... You willingly give up control of your body to a surgeon if you need to, and doctors take that control, they take your life and hold it in their hands and they don't humiliate or dominate people. So no I don't think we all have the desire to dominate and control people. Some people are leaders, others are followers, and for a lot of people, especially when it comes to BDSM, it's a temporary power exchange. A Dom in a BDSM relationship may not necessarily be dominant in all walks of life. I met a submissive guy who was the owner of a company and who was in control of a lot of things all day every day. He gave up his control as a release of the pressure. I've forgotten my point now :-/ " Last alragraoh asnj said in tbe op. For mang subs its the lifting of a burden of being in charge | |||
"If every person who had control over another person wanted to humiliate and dominate them then schools would be blood baths, Ever spoken to a person who went to school when corprwl punshment was legal? My mummtalks of one teacher who would smack every pupil at the start of every lesson as a warning." My bad... Hadn't thought of that. But still, my non-point still stands | |||
"If every person who had control over another person wanted to humiliate and dominate them then schools would be blood baths, children would never grow up sane and doctors would be butchers. I appreciate that children don't give up control, they just have to deal with it because parents and teachers are authority figures... But what about with doctors... You willingly give up control of your body to a surgeon if you need to, and doctors take that control, they take your life and hold it in their hands and they don't humiliate or dominate people. So no I don't think we all have the desire to dominate and control people. Some people are leaders, others are followers, and for a lot of people, especially when it comes to BDSM, it's a temporary power exchange. A Dom in a BDSM relationship may not necessarily be dominant in all walks of life. I met a submissive guy who was the owner of a company and who was in control of a lot of things all day every day. He gave up his control as a release of the pressure. I've forgotten my point now :-/ Last alragraoh asnj said in tbe op. For mang subs its the lifting of a burden of being in charge " I know, the OP was too long so I didn't read it all before I posted. Again, my bad | |||
"OP, you do know that the results of the Stanford prison experiment have been well and truly discredited? Its accessible to modt without the negative implications of every other msjor example. As i was tryign to avoid tbe negotive connotations associated with most times humans have assumed supreme conteol over amother. For exampme unit 731. You can see how this thread would have headed down a much darker path of I'd used that as my example of the efects of dehumanisation or slavery and the segregation of blacks in early america. Eahx example taints the discontinued too much. Q wuick gogle of the stanford experiment though gives people s breif overview. But i doubt many googled the artist I find it hard to understand you. You made reference to Stanford. I am not sure how much that could be a reference to positivity, to be honest. The statistical and methodical results of that experiment have been well rubbished. Ahnits not so much the result its just simply its a fairly easy way to show how people may act towards each other without infering all the negatives associated with more valid descriptions Seriosuly how badly would thisnthread have gone if id had referenced 731 and the nazi camps in the op. I thought it would fo south with the punishment rape coment but that surprisingly drew no comments I am still at a loss. Thats ok its a confusing and distressing subject and im not tbe moset elequent of people (effluent maybe :p). Basicaly i was trying to chose example which would not imediatley create a negative emptional reaponse in people so we didnt get dragged down some side track. Same as I try to always rule out pedantic repsonses and loop hoels in scenarios. My response was not pedantic. You picked a very well known and very well criticised experiment. That is bound to produce a negative response. Your premise is flawed (as far as I understand your premise). Is it not really just a question of you trying to justify some view that you have of the world? I am really not trying to be contradictive. I just don't really understand where you are coming from. Others clealy do, so it must just be me." It's not just you. | |||
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" Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more. I found simmilar in my experiments. Out of cuiosity did you find it becuasw of a sense of pride that your physical form was so desired snd capable of bringing them pelasure that it was pleasurable And that mentally it was too mucb an expectation from somone unworthy (for want of a better word) that while they maybbe eoth your ndly they never quite passed the bar for your mind. " Nothing as deep as that. If I'm sexually engaged with someone then I just assume that my physical form meets at least minimum standards. I only have sex with those I find mentally stimulating EXCEPT when in a club situation and I have gifted the choice of men to my playmate for that night. The playmate knows what I will and won't consent to and is responsible for ensuring my safety but I always retain the ultimate veto and if anyone feels wrong to me I say no, even if that reduces the pleasure of my playmate. It may be a gift but it has its limitations. | |||
"If every person who had control over another person wanted to humiliate and dominate them then schools would be blood baths, children would never grow up sane and doctors would be butchers. I appreciate that children don't give up control, they just have to deal with it because parents and teachers are authority figures... But what about with doctors... You willingly give up control of your body to a surgeon if you need to, and doctors take that control, they take your life and hold it in their hands and they don't humiliate or dominate people. So no I don't think we all have the desire to dominate and control people. Some people are leaders, others are followers, and for a lot of people, especially when it comes to BDSM, it's a temporary power exchange. A Dom in a BDSM relationship may not necessarily be dominant in all walks of life. I met a submissive guy who was the owner of a company and who was in control of a lot of things all day every day. He gave up his control as a release of the pressure. I've forgotten my point now :-/ Last alragraoh asnj said in tbe op. For mang subs its the lifting of a burden of being in charge I know, the OP was too long so I didn't read it all before I posted. Again, my bad "Haha no problem i wouldn't wade through that bullshit if inwas you either. My musings confuse me half the time. I just find bdsm a interesting window to view society throuh. And not just society myself. And its nice to gleen other peoples views too. Problem is a lot.of people think there must be sides there must be a winner and loser in a debate. Rather than there being a group movement towarda a greater understanding. Im personally very guilty of it you look at my posts and thyre very debate society agressive. But there are times where its nice to just talk. And see where it leads. Because we can only ever speak of our experence so we need others to flesh out the other side | |||
" Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more. I found simmilar in my experiments. Out of cuiosity did you find it becuasw of a sense of pride that your physical form was so desired snd capable of bringing them pelasure that it was pleasurable And that mentally it was too mucb an expectation from somone unworthy (for want of a better word) that while they maybbe eoth your ndly they never quite passed the bar for your mind. Nothing as deep as that. If I'm sexually engaged with someone then I just assume that my physical form meets at least minimum standards. I only have sex with those I find mentally stimulating EXCEPT when in a club situation and I have gifted the choice of men to my playmate for that night. The playmate knows what I will and won't consent to and is responsible for ensuring my safety but I always retain the ultimate veto and if anyone feels wrong to me I say no, even if that reduces the pleasure of my playmate. It may be a gift but it has its limitations. " Fair enpugh. Would you be willing to say wh uh you found the situations you engaged in a mentally submissive state regretable? If youd be willing the actions /rhoughts required of you would be helpful | |||
" Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more. I found simmilar in my experiments. Out of cuiosity did you find it becuasw of a sense of pride that your physical form was so desired snd capable of bringing them pelasure that it was pleasurable And that mentally it was too mucb an expectation from somone unworthy (for want of a better word) that while they maybbe eoth your ndly they never quite passed the bar for your mind. Nothing as deep as that. If I'm sexually engaged with someone then I just assume that my physical form meets at least minimum standards. I only have sex with those I find mentally stimulating EXCEPT when in a club situation and I have gifted the choice of men to my playmate for that night. The playmate knows what I will and won't consent to and is responsible for ensuring my safety but I always retain the ultimate veto and if anyone feels wrong to me I say no, even if that reduces the pleasure of my playmate. It may be a gift but it has its limitations. " Gift with limits but an equal in all respects, who is playing a fun game for a specified time. I could enjoy being either side of that dynamic, as long as either side could choose to change it. | |||
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"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? because i had two consecutive dreams of total submissive state and felt true feminine power as a full body experience ..it was non sexual and i glowed with power...and i wanted to see if i could replicate that in real life by passing over my masculine will/ decision making/ trust and clearing myself of all veils to it, in real life. i also wanted to see if sub space was like dreaming awake, which 'seers' use for visions. i have found both are possible and i have expanded my awareness and my perception of life, being a female and what it is to be human, through these experiences x i am still on that journey and i find unexpected veils to my authenticity through my experiences..i am after totality of self and freedom from those veils, so i may walk it in the world...you did ask
Thats genuinly fascinating and much more honest than i expected.
I wil happily apologise for assuming you'd make some evasive or vapid response.
I know you take a far more spiritual view to the world than myself (and i think we've argued, well I've been an ass about it, it in the last). So id like to ask why you define 5he decision making as masculine and feminine.
Also how did you rjnd subspace as ive foundeven extremes of violence have never elicited such a repsonse in my body.
I found it no diffetnt to any other severely traumatic (asnin the physical/medical sense of truma not emotional) experence "the 'art of gender' is really electro magnetism and its play in time a space..to cut a long story short this is how duality is made up. it is also how we become healthy or sick..imbalance of those forces in our lifes..so electric active focused direct action is attributed to masculine energies ( yang) and passive, receptive, circumstantial, arcs, anfd fluidity is attributed to the feminine energies of the universe (yin) together they of course create movement, attraction repulsion and all the other 'laws' of nature...naute as in mother earth is feminine in its natural state..that which penetrates nature is creative ( masculine..which is why god is seen as the father of creation). anyhow women have both energies naturally in their system..for example they become masculine in energetic terms, when they have children. Towards their offspring they are the direct providers/ protectors. . so many cannot learn to switch to and from this state and to the previous non children state of feminine towards their male partners..from then on in its a constant battle to be the right thing at the right time in their world..of switching energies to function in a balanced way, for those around them. men can and do cultivate feminine energy but its not in their original make up. there is lots more to this..however, thats why when i hand over my 'will, and direct, active components' to a Dom, i am free from that restraint to tap in and connect again to my feminine power without conflict. he gets the 'boost' of masculinity so he can have free reign to plan execute and use his will with unfettered permission..through that he can explore what that is like for him and whether he has any veils in his inner world, that stop him expressing that, at its most powerful capacity...that doesnt give him the right to inflict harm, it gives him the right to experience a woman in her full feminine energy in front of him..which pullls on his drive and urges to create/ control/ own/ have..like he strives to in the world.....its a journey to each others potential...in their own right and together as the smallest group consciousness you can have a 'partnership' a ying/yang symbol in its entirety...in that moment of experience...for me its an equal exchange.. i just need permission to give up that ingrained masculine element and a Dom gives me that freedom, while he is wanting to experience and understand the feminine as his other half, as much as she will allow. subspace and how i slip into it is different for me than most people i guess, its not brought on by the endorphin rush, i just have to remember my dreaming, however it can bee deepened..my femininity opened if you like by him imposing will on me, as i allow it i relax and go deeper..my body remebers what its like to be passive, fluid etc...thats how it works for me..impact play is very controlled...touch to the skin becomes 'firmer' as the endorphines are released..hence the sub is taken into a high alongside the build up of layers of touch and sensation that distract the mind and allow the body to give in, just like over stimulation works with some people..i dont do pain, however im sure if someone was watching they would just see a man flogging me..he however, will be watching every sign and feeling every stage in his own way..many say they come to empathize with the woman, intuitive, connected with..they move together in the exchange. who am i to judge how one gets to feel connected to another. i have had other instances in my life where you could say i have experienced violence..that wasnt sane, consensual controlled, or, done out of caring/ wanting the best pleasure for another. no trust..no interrelationship and no exchange of energies..to experience balance of the masculine/ feminine..which by the way is why people can release imbalances in their system from BDSM play, like they can from orgasms. it is a fine line between bringing about balance and drawing out an imbalance that is there..but some scenes are designed to 'heal'... no need to apologize..i am difficult to understand sometimes , my expression is somewhat fluid , but you help with direct questions..thank you for your interest though ive appreciated the opportunity to try and write down my expression x | |||
"My contention really removing the horror stages of the extremes some people will go to. The OP is mixing up 3 different groups, 1 is cruel through fear, that can be fear of those being abused or fear of being abused if they don't abuse someone else. 2 Cruel, because they just are, pulling wings off fly, cruelty to animals, etc are symptoms of this. 3 Dominant personalities, they are not generally cruel but will use sensation of pleasure and pain to assist in dominating submissive people. this is not abusing them. The trust often talked about in BDSM is trusting they are the 3rd group not the first 2..." Im.not trying to mix them.up im.hoping they'll all explain themselves. Which do youbfind yourslrf in? For instance u am typically submisuve. But with close friends who have a "R" fantasy i have engaged in that. While k was happy they enjoyed the experience i personally found it very unfulfilling because for me part of whag i enjoy about sex isthe aspect of being "chosen and wanted" whochbin a rape situation is non existent and so it doesnt satisfy me mentally. Because for me my unsecurites revolve around choice and being rejected. Where as thier insecurity revolved around thier feminitnty and desiribility where "R" fits that perfectly. They are so desirable its uncontrollable for a man tk fuck them for instance | |||
" Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more. I found simmilar in my experiments. Out of cuiosity did you find it becuasw of a sense of pride that your physical form was so desired snd capable of bringing them pelasure that it was pleasurable And that mentally it was too mucb an expectation from somone unworthy (for want of a better word) that while they maybbe eoth your ndly they never quite passed the bar for your mind. Nothing as deep as that. If I'm sexually engaged with someone then I just assume that my physical form meets at least minimum standards. I only have sex with those I find mentally stimulating EXCEPT when in a club situation and I have gifted the choice of men to my playmate for that night. The playmate knows what I will and won't consent to and is responsible for ensuring my safety but I always retain the ultimate veto and if anyone feels wrong to me I say no, even if that reduces the pleasure of my playmate. It may be a gift but it has its limitations. Fair enpugh. Would you be willing to say wh uh you found the situations you engaged in a mentally submissive state regretable? If youd be willing the actions /rhoughts required of you would be helpful" My regret has always been about trusting someone with my mind and will. It comes from being in abusive coercive relationships, which in turn comes from early formative experiences. Every once in a while I will fall in love with someone who manages to tap that rich seam and in most cases I find that I am in an abusive coercion situation again. So I work hard to avoid that. The evolution of me has taken time, hard work and a lot of money spent on therapy. | |||
"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? because i had two consecutive dreams of total submissive state and felt true feminine power as a full body experience ..it was non sexual and i glowed with power...and i wanted to see if i could replicate that in real life by passing over my masculine will/ decision making/ trust and clearing myself of all veils to it, in real life. i also wanted to see if sub space was like dreaming awake, which 'seers' use for visions. i have found both are possible and i have expanded my awareness and my perception of life, being a female and what it is to be human, through these experiences x i am still on that journey and i find unexpected veils to my authenticity through my experiences..i am after totality of self and freedom from those veils, so i may walk it in the world...you did ask
Thats genuinly fascinating and much more honest than i expected.
I wil happily apologise for assuming you'd make some evasive or vapid response.
I know you take a far more spiritual view to the world than myself (and i think we've argued, well I've been an ass about it, it in the last). So id like to ask why you define 5he decision making as masculine and feminine.
Also how did you rjnd subspace as ive foundeven extremes of violence have never elicited such a repsonse in my body.
I found it no diffetnt to any other severely traumatic (asnin the physical/medical sense of truma not emotional) experence
the 'art of gender' is really electro magnetism and its play in time a space..to cut a long story short this is how duality is made up. it is also how we become healthy or sick..imbalance of those forces in our lifes..so electric active focused direct action is attributed to masculine energies ( yang) and passive, receptive, circumstantial, arcs, anfd fluidity is attributed to the feminine energies of the universe (yin) together they of course create movement, attraction repulsion and all the other 'laws' of nature...naute as in mother earth is feminine in its natural state..that which penetrates nature is creative ( masculine..which is why god is seen as the father of creation). anyhow women have both energies naturally in their system..for example they become masculine in energetic terms, when they have children. Towards their offspring they are the direct providers/ protectors. . so many cannot learn to switch to and from this state and to the previous non children state of feminine towards their male partners..from then on in its a constant battle to be the right thing at the right time in their world..of switching energies to function in a balanced way, for those around them. men can and do cultivate feminine energy but its not in their original make up. there is lots more to this..however, thats why when i hand over my 'will, and direct, active components' to a Dom, i am free from that restraint to tap in and connect again to my feminine power without conflict. he gets the 'boost' of masculinity so he can have free reign to plan execute and use his will with unfettered permission..through that he can explore what that is like for him and whether he has any veils in his inner world, that stop him expressing that, at its most powerful capacity...that doesnt give him the right to inflict harm, it gives him the right to experience a woman in her full feminine energy in front of him..which pullls on his drive and urges to create/ control/ own/ have..like he strives to in the world.....its a journey to each others potential...in their own right and together as the smallest group consciousness you can have a 'partnership' a ying/yang symbol in its entirety...in that moment of experience...for me its an equal exchange.. i just need permission to give up that ingrained masculine element and a Dom gives me that freedom, while he is wanting to experience and understand the feminine as his other half, as much as she will allow.
subspace and how i slip into it is different for me than most people i guess, its not brought on by the endorphin rush, i just have to remember my dreaming, however it can bee deepened..my femininity opened if you like by him imposing will on me, as i allow it i relax and go deeper..my body remebers what its like to be passive, fluid etc...thats how it works for me..impact play is very controlled...touch to the skin becomes 'firmer' as the endorphines are released..hence the sub is taken into a high alongside the build up of layers of touch and sensation that distract the mind and allow the body to give in, just like over stimulation works with some people..i dont do pain, however im sure if someone was watching they would just see a man flogging me..he however, will be watching every sign and feeling every stage in his own way..many say they come to empathize with the woman, intuitive, connected with..they move together in the exchange.
who am i to judge how one gets to feel connected to another.
i have had other instances in my life where you could say i have experienced violence..that wasnt sane, consensual controlled, or, done out of caring/ wanting the best pleasure for another. no trust..no interrelationship and no exchange of energies..to experience balance of the masculine/ feminine..which by the way is why people can release imbalances in their system from BDSM play, like they can from orgasms. it is a fine line between bringing about balance and drawing out an imbalance that is there..but some scenes are designed to 'heal'...
no need to apologize..i am difficult to understand sometimes , my expression is somewhat fluid , but you help with direct questions..thank you for your interest though ive appreciated the opportunity to try and write down my expression x"Hey suzy, not i must say on my initial reading upon seeing electromagnetic is to be dismissive because of tbe contolable and measurable nature of such a force but youve neen honest and clear so im going toncome back to it tomorrow when ive not had a drink and my reponse is to be less of a cunt and to avtually try to understand and not dismiss (im a dick when d*unk, on a side not this bar as brought be at least 7 pints on the tab so far without me asking for one bat an ball in Stratford center if you fancy a game of ping pong l I bizarely am doing this cause i recall the level of twatishness ive bee to younin the past and you've always been civil and clear and so i wpuld like to retun the decency.( im trying to be less of an ass) I liek your decriptiom of how yoh reach subspace though. If you dont mind me asking do you feel it requires concious effort on your behalf? | |||
" Yes, it's the giving up of my body to them, albeit temporarily. I am not happy when I submit mental will. It has happened and I have regretted it every single time so it's not the game I play any more. I found simmilar in my experiments. Out of cuiosity did you find it becuasw of a sense of pride that your physical form was so desired snd capable of bringing them pelasure that it was pleasurable And that mentally it was too mucb an expectation from somone unworthy (for want of a better word) that while they maybbe eoth your ndly they never quite passed the bar for your mind. Nothing as deep as that. If I'm sexually engaged with someone then I just assume that my physical form meets at least minimum standards. I only have sex with those I find mentally stimulating EXCEPT when in a club situation and I have gifted the choice of men to my playmate for that night. The playmate knows what I will and won't consent to and is responsible for ensuring my safety but I always retain the ultimate veto and if anyone feels wrong to me I say no, even if that reduces the pleasure of my playmate. It may be a gift but it has its limitations. Fair enpugh. Would you be willing to say wh uh you found the situations you engaged in a mentally submissive state regretable? If youd be willing the actions /rhoughts required of you would be helpful My regret has always been about trusting someone with my mind and will. It comes from being in abusive coercive relationships, which in turn comes from early formative experiences. Every once in a while I will fall in love with someone who manages to tap that rich seam and in most cases I find that I am in an abusive coercion situation again. So I work hard to avoid that. The evolution of me has taken time, hard work and a lot of money spent on therapy. " Ahh now that i can sympathise with. As a blunt pount wouldnyoh agree unlike phywical submission youve found you have no cioncious choice in your mental submission. It just happened/younrelaised you'd done it long after youd changed the person you where and it took a shock/external view to see the differnce. In yourself | |||
"OP, are you trying to use some strange and distorted world view to justify BDSM? Some people like it. Some people like different aspects of it. Some don't. Mr and Mrs Jones are quite happy with their once a week missionary. Saint Theresa was happy with abstinence. There is no one size fits all explanation." No im just curious to of ther is a significant differnce in now people treat each other when one has power over each other. And if consent to that power is present or not. | |||
"I am not Dom or sub, but know a few couples that either live or play BDSM games, none that I know could be called cruel, sometimes there are bruises but never on show. I also unfortunately know some abusive relationships. they are a long way from BDSM. Any one who tries to dominate me will fail, any one who tries to be submissive to me will fail, But I do love equals, and that can mean I would enjoy either scenario for half an hour here and there. As an asinine reaponse to this post do you think the tbe gaurds of a concentration camp would have failed in dominating you? No they wouldn't, they could of course kill me, but not dominate me." Why would they kill you? How about if theyhl asked you to crawl through 20 ft of human excrement? If you said no theyndaid they would bring a differnt 12 year old over every half hour an rape and kill them til you crawl through it. Humans are experts are being cunts | |||
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"You started by saying this was just a tiny bit about bdsm and now it seems to mostly be that. To the people who seem to know what it being said care to enlighten us?" .That's more due to the responses though tbh. Everyone ignored everything everhthing else expect the couple.who raised some admitedly very valid concerens about the use of the standofrd expeirment asn an example; everyone else went 100% for "zomg hes saying bdsm is abuse" which as a sub who has been; consentually scarified, branded, cut, electrocued, whipped flogged bestend and burned is mildly amsusing. | |||
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"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? because i had two consecutive dreams of total submissive state and felt true feminine power as a full body experience ..it was non sexual and i glowed with power...and i wanted to see if i could replicate that in real life by passing over my masculine will/ decision making/ trust and clearing myself of all veils to it, in real life. i also wanted to see if sub space was like dreaming awake, which 'seers' use for visions. i have found both are possible and i have expanded my awareness and my perception of life, being a female and what it is to be human, through these experiences x i am still on that journey and i find unexpected veils to my authenticity through my experiences..i am after totality of self and freedom from those veils, so i may walk it in the world...you did ask
Thats genuinly fascinating and much more honest than i expected.
I wil happily apologise for assuming you'd make some evasive or vapid response.
I know you take a far more spiritual view to the world than myself (and i think we've argued, well I've been an ass about it, it in the last). So id like to ask why you define 5he decision making as masculine and feminine.
Also how did you rjnd subspace as ive foundeven extremes of violence have never elicited such a repsonse in my body.
I found it no diffetnt to any other severely traumatic (asnin the physical/medical sense of truma not emotional) experence
the 'art of gender' is really electro magnetism and its play in time a space..to cut a long story short this is how duality is made up. it is also how we become healthy or sick..imbalance of those forces in our lifes..so electric active focused direct action is attributed to masculine energies ( yang) and passive, receptive, circumstantial, arcs, anfd fluidity is attributed to the feminine energies of the universe (yin) together they of course create movement, attraction repulsion and all the other 'laws' of nature...naute as in mother earth is feminine in its natural state..that which penetrates nature is creative ( masculine..which is why god is seen as the father of creation). anyhow women have both energies naturally in their system..for example they become masculine in energetic terms, when they have children. Towards their offspring they are the direct providers/ protectors. . so many cannot learn to switch to and from this state and to the previous non children state of feminine towards their male partners..from then on in its a constant battle to be the right thing at the right time in their world..of switching energies to function in a balanced way, for those around them. men can and do cultivate feminine energy but its not in their original make up. there is lots more to this..however, thats why when i hand over my 'will, and direct, active components' to a Dom, i am free from that restraint to tap in and connect again to my feminine power without conflict. he gets the 'boost' of masculinity so he can have free reign to plan execute and use his will with unfettered permission..through that he can explore what that is like for him and whether he has any veils in his inner world, that stop him expressing that, at its most powerful capacity...that doesnt give him the right to inflict harm, it gives him the right to experience a woman in her full feminine energy in front of him..which pullls on his drive and urges to create/ control/ own/ have..like he strives to in the world.....its a journey to each others potential...in their own right and together as the smallest group consciousness you can have a 'partnership' a ying/yang symbol in its entirety...in that moment of experience...for me its an equal exchange.. i just need permission to give up that ingrained masculine element and a Dom gives me that freedom, while he is wanting to experience and understand the feminine as his other half, as much as she will allow.
subspace and how i slip into it is different for me than most people i guess, its not brought on by the endorphin rush, i just have to remember my dreaming, however it can bee deepened..my femininity opened if you like by him imposing will on me, as i allow it i relax and go deeper..my body remebers what its like to be passive, fluid etc...thats how it works for me..impact play is very controlled...touch to the skin becomes 'firmer' as the endorphines are released..hence the sub is taken into a high alongside the build up of layers of touch and sensation that distract the mind and allow the body to give in, just like over stimulation works with some people..i dont do pain, however im sure if someone was watching they would just see a man flogging me..he however, will be watching every sign and feeling every stage in his own way..many say they come to empathize with the woman, intuitive, connected with..they move together in the exchange.
who am i to judge how one gets to feel connected to another.
i have had other instances in my life where you could say i have experienced violence..that wasnt sane, consensual controlled, or, done out of caring/ wanting the best pleasure for another. no trust..no interrelationship and no exchange of energies..to experience balance of the masculine/ feminine..which by the way is why people can release imbalances in their system from BDSM play, like they can from orgasms. it is a fine line between bringing about balance and drawing out an imbalance that is there..but some scenes are designed to 'heal'...
no need to apologize..i am difficult to understand sometimes , my expression is somewhat fluid , but you help with direct questions..thank you for your interest though ive appreciated the opportunity to try and write down my expression x
Hey suzy, not i must say on my initial reading upon seeing electromagnetic is to be dismissive because of tbe contolable and measurable nature of such a force but youve neen honest and clear so im going toncome back to it tomorrow when ive not had a drink and my reponse is to be less of a cunt and to avtually try to understand and not dismiss (im a dick when d*unk, on a side not this bar as brought be at least 7 pints on the tab so far without me asking for one bat an ball in Stratford center if you fancy a game of ping pong l
I bizarely am doing this cause i recall the level of twatishness ive bee to younin the past and you've always been civil and clear and so i wpuld like to retun the decency.( im trying to be less of an ass)
I liek your decriptiom of how yoh reach subspace though.
If you dont mind me asking do you feel it requires concious effort on your behalf?"with some men no they draw it from everything is atoms..look up the science..i promise it is there. that duality or reality is split into electromagnetism and its interplay of fields (sound and light) i cant play casually because the understanding of the Dom and what i am actually giving him, and, that he wants it, is important to me in order for me not to fear to open and for him to see me like that, however, some take very little time to access that state in me, and that's not by their aggression or 'bossiness'..but a steady firmness in their willingness to hold it for me..they give me permission and i am grateful for it.i haven't done a survey on how they feel about that process. btw the way, it is measurable..imbalances in electromagnetism and the forces within humans can be read by a S.C.I.O. machine amongst other technologies..every frequency if differential in hertz and that is what creates different states of matter.. i love that we have come to be able to converse, thank you, your words are appreciated and they moved me... have fun and i hope we may truly connect sometime in the near future.i shall look forward to sharing conversation with you xx | |||
"You started by saying this was just a tiny bit about bdsm and now it seems to mostly be that. To the people who seem to know what it being said care to enlighten us? .That's more due to the responses though tbh. Everyone ignored everything everhthing else expect the couple.who raised some admitedly very valid concerens about the use of the standofrd expeirment asn an example; everyone else went 100% for "zomg hes saying bdsm is abuse" which as a sub who has been; consentually scarified, branded, cut, electrocued, whipped flogged bestend and burned is mildly amsusing." Everyone else? Nope I didn't. I just tried to work out what you were talking about. | |||
"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx You're asuming i found anything negative in tbe bdsm scene. I did not and did not make any such inference Sadly it seems that people sre latching widly onto the bdsm aspect as if this was a critique of bdsm. It was never intended that way bdsm was actually a minor point of the post. It's simply that bdsm gives us a large and diverse range of dominant and submisive interationtions between humans thag most here will have experienced and so can be used as a looking glass. But it seems as usual every onr has jumped to "omg hes saying negative shit about me" i didnt take it as a critique of the bdsm scene at all..i saw you question humanity through that subsection of society and i answered, with what i can from a participant in that scene, if you want me to get into psychoanalysis then i can do, however, with over 25 years of working with the public and clients patterns of behaviour i would suggest i dont..it will bore you to tears. i kept my answer general but if you have any specific questions, you would like answering from my perception then i would do my best to articulate my own subjective response x Ok specifics, and yes i udnertsnd everyone is differnt Why are you involved in the scene? because i had two consecutive dreams of total submissive state and felt true feminine power as a full body experience ..it was non sexual and i glowed with power...and i wanted to see if i could replicate that in real life by passing over my masculine will/ decision making/ trust and clearing myself of all veils to it, in real life. i also wanted to see if sub space was like dreaming awake, which 'seers' use for visions. i have found both are possible and i have expanded my awareness and my perception of life, being a female and what it is to be human, through these experiences x i am still on that journey and i find unexpected veils to my authenticity through my experiences..i am after totality of self and freedom from those veils, so i may walk it in the world...you did ask
Thats genuinly fascinating and much more honest than i expected.
I wil happily apologise for assuming you'd make some evasive or vapid response.
I know you take a far more spiritual view to the world than myself (and i think we've argued, well I've been an ass about it, it in the last). So id like to ask why you define 5he decision making as masculine and feminine.
Also how did you rjnd subspace as ive foundeven extremes of violence have never elicited such a repsonse in my body.
I found it no diffetnt to any other severely traumatic (asnin the physical/medical sense of truma not emotional) experence
the 'art of gender' is really electro magnetism and its play in time a space..to cut a long story short this is how duality is made up. it is also how we become healthy or sick..imbalance of those forces in our lifes..so electric active focused direct action is attributed to masculine energies ( yang) and passive, receptive, circumstantial, arcs, anfd fluidity is attributed to the feminine energies of the universe (yin) together they of course create movement, attraction repulsion and all the other 'laws' of nature...naute as in mother earth is feminine in its natural state..that which penetrates nature is creative ( masculine..which is why god is seen as the father of creation). anyhow women have both energies naturally in their system..for example they become masculine in energetic terms, when they have children. Towards their offspring they are the direct providers/ protectors. . so many cannot learn to switch to and from this state and to the previous non children state of feminine towards their male partners..from then on in its a constant battle to be the right thing at the right time in their world..of switching energies to function in a balanced way, for those around them. men can and do cultivate feminine energy but its not in their original make up. there is lots more to this..however, thats why when i hand over my 'will, and direct, active components' to a Dom, i am free from that restraint to tap in and connect again to my feminine power without conflict. he gets the 'boost' of masculinity so he can have free reign to plan execute and use his will with unfettered permission..through that he can explore what that is like for him and whether he has any veils in his inner world, that stop him expressing that, at its most powerful capacity...that doesnt give him the right to inflict harm, it gives him the right to experience a woman in her full feminine energy in front of him..which pullls on his drive and urges to create/ control/ own/ have..like he strives to in the world.....its a journey to each others potential...in their own right and together as the smallest group consciousness you can have a 'partnership' a ying/yang symbol in its entirety...in that moment of experience...for me its an equal exchange.. i just need permission to give up that ingrained masculine element and a Dom gives me that freedom, while he is wanting to experience and understand the feminine as his other half, as much as she will allow.
subspace and how i slip into it is different for me than most people i guess, its not brought on by the endorphin rush, i just have to remember my dreaming, however it can bee deepened..my femininity opened if you like by him imposing will on me, as i allow it i relax and go deeper..my body remebers what its like to be passive, fluid etc...thats how it works for me..impact play is very controlled...touch to the skin becomes 'firmer' as the endorphines are released..hence the sub is taken into a high alongside the build up of layers of touch and sensation that distract the mind and allow the body to give in, just like over stimulation works with some people..i dont do pain, however im sure if someone was watching they would just see a man flogging me..he however, will be watching every sign and feeling every stage in his own way..many say they come to empathize with the woman, intuitive, connected with..they move together in the exchange.
who am i to judge how one gets to feel connected to another.
i have had other instances in my life where you could say i have experienced violence..that wasnt sane, consensual controlled, or, done out of caring/ wanting the best pleasure for another. no trust..no interrelationship and no exchange of energies..to experience balance of the masculine/ feminine..which by the way is why people can release imbalances in their system from BDSM play, like they can from orgasms. it is a fine line between bringing about balance and drawing out an imbalance that is there..but some scenes are designed to 'heal'...
no need to apologize..i am difficult to understand sometimes , my expression is somewhat fluid , but you help with direct questions..thank you for your interest though ive appreciated the opportunity to try and write down my expression x
Hey suzy, not i must say on my initial reading upon seeing electromagnetic is to be dismissive because of tbe contolable and measurable nature of such a force but youve neen honest and clear so im going toncome back to it tomorrow when ive not had a drink and my reponse is to be less of a cunt and to avtually try to understand and not dismiss (im a dick when d*unk, on a side not this bar as brought be at least 7 pints on the tab so far without me asking for one bat an ball in Stratford center if you fancy a game of ping pong l
I bizarely am doing this cause i recall the level of twatishness ive bee to younin the past and you've always been civil and clear and so i wpuld like to retun the decency.( im trying to be less of an ass)
I liek your decriptiom of how yoh reach subspace though.
If you dont mind me asking do you feel it requires concious effort on your behalf?with some men no they draw it from
everything is atoms..look up the science..i promise it is there. that duality or reality is split into electromagnetism and its interplay of fields (sound and light)
i cant play casually because the understanding of the Dom and what i am actually giving him, and, that he wants it, is important to me in order for me not to fear to open and for him to see me like that, however, some take very little time to access that state in me, and that's not by their aggression or 'bossiness'..but a steady firmness in their willingness to hold it for me..they give me permission and i am grateful for it.i haven't done a survey on how they feel about that process.
btw the way, it is measurable..imbalances in electromagnetism and the forces within humans can be read by a S.C.I.O. machine amongst other technologies..every frequency if differential in hertz and that is what creates different states of matter..
i love that we have come to be able to converse, thank you, your words are appreciated and they moved me... have fun and i hope we may truly connect sometime in the near future.i shall look forward to sharing conversation with you xx"Hey can you chuck me a messgw please i want to pm you somethign without side tracking discussoo n hwre if thats ok | |||
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"So those of you who are into bdsm, what is your flavour? Everyone I know within the lifestyle have various activities they enjoy, I think for those who have a dim view of bdsm might better understand if they saw the diversity that is covered by one small umbrella For me, bdsm is power, not so much the power over someone's decisions, but the power of trust, the power that I feel when someone consents to give themselves over to me, the trust they have in me to give them pleasure, without the constraints of having to tell me every five minutes where to touch, the tempo and the amount of pressure. It's about having a sub kneeling before me, and her being mine, I'll make her body react in ways that she can't consciously control, note would she want to. Pleasure for me comes in the form of knowing I have used communication to gain as much information as I can, and using it to give pleasure in a way that requires no instructions because I know what she wants, and how she wants it, because she has told me that's how she wants it. I'm a great lover of the dramatic and the visual, I'm almost a showman, I find humiliation comes easier to me knowing what it is to be completely humiliated, I find administration of pain easier because I know what pain is. Fear is a powerful tool, but only in the right amount, fear of the uncertainty of the situation can release so many feel good chemicals in the brain, it becomes pleasurable, after all, if it wasn't the case, how many horror films would have been made, but there has to be balance, too much fear and it stops being a game So many factors have to be taken into consideration, and on top of that, I occasionally have to do some fucking lol It's not just a matter of shoving your dick in someone's mouth and ordering them about punctuated by the occasional slap, if it was, I wouldn't do it" Thank you thats a very honest post and helps understand and explain the dominant view point. If you dont mind me askign whg do yoh feel yoy draw pleasure of this powed of cumminication and repore (sp?) Yoh form with your sub | |||
"So those of you who are into bdsm, what is your flavour? Everyone I know within the lifestyle have various activities they enjoy, I think for those who have a dim view of bdsm might better understand if they saw the diversity that is covered by one small umbrella For me, bdsm is power, not so much the power over someone's decisions, but the power of trust, the power that I feel when someone consents to give themselves over to me, the trust they have in me to give them pleasure, without the constraints of having to tell me every five minutes where to touch, the tempo and the amount of pressure. It's about having a sub kneeling before me, and her being mine, I'll make her body react in ways that she can't consciously control, note would she want to. Pleasure for me comes in the form of knowing I have used communication to gain as much information as I can, and using it to give pleasure in a way that requires no instructions because I know what she wants, and how she wants it, because she has told me that's how she wants it. I'm a great lover of the dramatic and the visual, I'm almost a showman, I find humiliation comes easier to me knowing what it is to be completely humiliated, I find administration of pain easier because I know what pain is. Fear is a powerful tool, but only in the right amount, fear of the uncertainty of the situation can release so many feel good chemicals in the brain, it becomes pleasurable, after all, if it wasn't the case, how many horror films would have been made, but there has to be balance, too much fear and it stops being a game So many factors have to be taken into consideration, and on top of that, I occasionally have to do some fucking lol It's not just a matter of shoving your dick in someone's mouth and ordering them about punctuated by the occasional slap, if it was, I wouldn't do it Thank you thats a very honest post and helps understand and explain the dominant view point. If you dont mind me askign whg do yoh feel yoy draw pleasure of this powed of cumminication and repore (sp?) Yoh form with your sub" It's about being the best I can be, having the ability to make someone react to your every touch isn't a magic trick, it's a result of using your left ear, right ear and all that's in between, I was once given the compliment "I didn't know what you where going to do next but I knew I was going to love it" that's music to my ears | |||
"So those of you who are into bdsm, what is your flavour? Everyone I know within the lifestyle have various activities they enjoy, I think for those who have a dim view of bdsm might better understand if they saw the diversity that is covered by one small umbrella For me, bdsm is power, not so much the power over someone's decisions, but the power of trust, the power that I feel when someone consents to give themselves over to me, the trust they have in me to give them pleasure, without the constraints of having to tell me every five minutes where to touch, the tempo and the amount of pressure. It's about having a sub kneeling before me, and her being mine, I'll make her body react in ways that she can't consciously control, note would she want to. Pleasure for me comes in the form of knowing I have used communication to gain as much information as I can, and using it to give pleasure in a way that requires no instructions because I know what she wants, and how she wants it, because she has told me that's how she wants it. I'm a great lover of the dramatic and the visual, I'm almost a showman, I find humiliation comes easier to me knowing what it is to be completely humiliated, I find administration of pain easier because I know what pain is. Fear is a powerful tool, but only in the right amount, fear of the uncertainty of the situation can release so many feel good chemicals in the brain, it becomes pleasurable, after all, if it wasn't the case, how many horror films would have been made, but there has to be balance, too much fear and it stops being a game So many factors have to be taken into consideration, and on top of that, I occasionally have to do some fucking lol It's not just a matter of shoving your dick in someone's mouth and ordering them about punctuated by the occasional slap, if it was, I wouldn't do it Thank you thats a very honest post and helps understand and explain the dominant view point. If you dont mind me askign whg do yoh feel yoy draw pleasure of this powed of cumminication and repore (sp?) Yoh form with your sub It's about being the best I can be, having the ability to make someone react to your every touch isn't a magic trick, it's a result of using your left ear, right ear and all that's in between, I was once given the compliment "I didn't know what you where going to do next but I knew I was going to love it" that's music to my ears" Interesting i can understand that. I'm going to make a statement/question that may be offensive and i hope you dont take it as such but its based on mypersonal feelings and experience. Fo you think this is because it afirms/supports youre desire for intilectual superiority /discounts your fear of intilectual inferiority. I'll express my view i find submissiveness apealing because it highlighits my physical atractovness to a lartner (a factor i never used to hsve and worried about as a teenager) While it disregards my intellectual superiority which cause negative effects theough out my teenage years (being the smart geek at 14 is hsrd and being the handsome stupid jock can be a goal ) Or so you think its another factor for you? | |||
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"Dude, install spell check. I'm a Domme and an artist and have no answers. Not sure there are any. From a very young age I was always very independent, bossy and dominant. I'd sit on the boys during kiss chase until they whimpered in submission. It took me a long time to identify and find BDSM and while I've tried submitting, does nothing for me. For some, kink psychology is basic Freud. Learnt behaviour, nurture. But feel I'm in the nature camp. I genuinely get a thrill having someone submit to me, it's a wonderful gift. On the rare occasion where I've been given full control, I love inflicting pain yet no interest in causing permanent pain, mental or physical. There are some truly awful people in the world that I'd happily inflict all manners of pain on, without concern for their well-being and enjoy it. But within the realms of safe, sane, consensual, I adhere to the general principles of BDSM of respect. And know my sub always has the ultimate control. " I actually removed spell check/predictive text to tey and improve my typing/work on my dyslexia. And yep i totaly get the not sure/no answer deal. Do you ever thing why you enjoy the submisision though? *i will confess i have been waiting to see your name pop up as i expected you to come up with a more genuine and honest answer rathe then anything gaurded/a persona answer as it where. | |||
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"My contention really removing the horror stages of the extremes some people will go to. The OP is mixing up 3 different groups, 1 is cruel through fear, that can be fear of those being abused or fear of being abused if they don't abuse someone else. 2 Cruel, because they just are, pulling wings off fly, cruelty to animals, etc are symptoms of this. 3 Dominant personalities, they are not generally cruel but will use sensation of pleasure and pain to assist in dominating submissive people. this is not abusing them. The trust often talked about in BDSM is trusting they are the 3rd group not the first 2... Im.not trying to mix them.up im.hoping they'll all explain themselves. Which do youbfind yourslrf in? " Sorry thunder storm took out Internet. ... as I said above I am not Dom or sub but equal(ist)? so none of the 3 groups. | |||
"but Why would they kill you? How about if theyhl asked you to crawl through 20 ft of human excrement? If you said no theyndaid they would bring a differnt 12 year old over every half hour an rape and kill them til you crawl through it. Humans are experts are being cunts" I would probably have been killed long before that point, but assuming I was there. No I would not submit, they will only use it again and again. though I am likely to attack in that situation. I have very low self preservation issues. | |||
"Dude, install spell check. I'm a Domme and an artist and have no answers. Not sure there are any. From a very young age I was always very independent, bossy and dominant. I'd sit on the boys during kiss chase until they whimpered in submission. It took me a long time to identify and find BDSM and while I've tried submitting, does nothing for me. For some, kink psychology is basic Freud. Learnt behaviour, nurture. But feel I'm in the nature camp. I genuinely get a thrill having someone submit to me, it's a wonderful gift. On the rare occasion where I've been given full control, I love inflicting pain yet no interest in causing permanent pain, mental or physical. There are some truly awful people in the world that I'd happily inflict all manners of pain on, without concern for their well-being and enjoy it. But within the realms of safe, sane, consensual, I adhere to the general principles of BDSM of respect. And know my sub always has the ultimate control. I actually removed spell check/predictive text to tey and improve my typing/work on my dyslexia. And yep i totaly get the not sure/no answer deal. Do you ever thing why you enjoy the submisision though? *i will confess i have been waiting to see your name pop up as i expected you to come up with a more genuine and honest answer rathe then anything gaurded/a persona answer as it where. " Do you mean why I didn't enjoy submitting? Again, no idea. Probably a control thing. Don't mind bottoming sometimes (particularly during vanilla) but not submit. Unable to mentally allow myself to trust. Even during massages, find it tough to drift off. In a vulnerable position, mind always ticking. I'm a performer too and see all scenes like one to one (or more) theatre. Guess I prefer being the director and star than the audience. | |||
"Dude, install spell check. I'm a Domme and an artist and have no answers. Not sure there are any. From a very young age I was always very independent, bossy and dominant. I'd sit on the boys during kiss chase until they whimpered in submission. It took me a long time to identify and find BDSM and while I've tried submitting, does nothing for me. For some, kink psychology is basic Freud. Learnt behaviour, nurture. But feel I'm in the nature camp. I genuinely get a thrill having someone submit to me, it's a wonderful gift. On the rare occasion where I've been given full control, I love inflicting pain yet no interest in causing permanent pain, mental or physical. There are some truly awful people in the world that I'd happily inflict all manners of pain on, without concern for their well-being and enjoy it. But within the realms of safe, sane, consensual, I adhere to the general principles of BDSM of respect. And know my sub always has the ultimate control. I actually removed spell check/predictive text to tey and improve my typing/work on my dyslexia. And yep i totaly get the not sure/no answer deal. Do you ever thing why you enjoy the submisision though? *i will confess i have been waiting to see your name pop up as i expected you to come up with a more genuine and honest answer rathe then anything gaurded/a persona answer as it where. Do you mean why I didn't enjoy submitting? Again, no idea. Probably a control thing. Don't mind bottoming sometimes (particularly during vanilla) but not submit. Unable to mentally allow myself to trust. Even during massages, find it tough to drift off. In a vulnerable position, mind always ticking. I'm a performer too and see all scenes like one to one (or more) theatre. Guess I prefer being the director and star than the audience. " Sory soastic typing mean tthem submiting | |||
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"Them submitting? To feel helpless, to relax, to be controlled, to please, to feel worth. Side note, watching folk get high off sub space makes me incredibly jealous. Sure I get Domme space rush but it doesn't seem as intense " Yeah as in what do yoy enjoy aboht them submiting if you understand me | |||
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"What does my love of doing things to sleeping men make me?" I don't know why is it you liketp do things to me while theyre asleep? There is no jdugement or labeling by 3rd paties herbeit is your own judgement and labels that matter | |||
"What does my love of doing things to sleeping men make me? I don't know why is it you liketp do things to me while theyre asleep? There is no jdugement or labeling by 3rd paties herbeit is your own judgement and labels that matter " I just like how guys brains and body can be sleeping but their willy is still alert and responsive. Someone that could be shy or nervous about having a tongue up their arse hole whilst awake will shuffle their body in to the recovery position when they're sleeping so I have access to their bum hole. Once I've started licking their bum they will lift their thigh up a bit higher and by doing so they spread their bum cheeks. | |||
"What does my love of doing things to sleeping men make me? I don't know why is it you liketp do things to me while theyre asleep? There is no jdugement or labeling by 3rd paties herbeit is your own judgement and labels that matter I just like how guys brains and body can be sleeping but their willy is still alert and responsive. Someone that could be shy or nervous about having a tongue up their arse hole whilst awake will shuffle their body in to the recovery position when they're sleeping so I have access to their bum hole. Once I've started licking their bum they will lift their thigh up a bit higher and by doing so they spread their bum cheeks. " And why are you interested in the guys bum holea to begin with? | |||
"What does my love of doing things to sleeping men make me? I don't know why is it you liketp do things to me while theyre asleep? There is no jdugement or labeling by 3rd paties herbeit is your own judgement and labels that matter I just like how guys brains and body can be sleeping but their willy is still alert and responsive. Someone that could be shy or nervous about having a tongue up their arse hole whilst awake will shuffle their body in to the recovery position when they're sleeping so I have access to their bum hole. Once I've started licking their bum they will lift their thigh up a bit higher and by doing so they spread their bum cheeks. And why are you interested in the guys bum holea to begin with?" It's lots of things, the warmth of having my face between the bum cheeks, the smell (not like shitty arse) just slightly salty, I like sucking the arse hole as if giving it a love bite, like putting my tongue inside it as far as I can where it starts to taste fleshy! I dunno, this is like asking why I like to lick the top of batteries. | |||
"What does my love of doing things to sleeping men make me? I don't know why is it you liketp do things to me while theyre asleep? There is no jdugement or labeling by 3rd paties herbeit is your own judgement and labels that matter I just like how guys brains and body can be sleeping but their willy is still alert and responsive. Someone that could be shy or nervous about having a tongue up their arse hole whilst awake will shuffle their body in to the recovery position when they're sleeping so I have access to their bum hole. Once I've started licking their bum they will lift their thigh up a bit higher and by doing so they spread their bum cheeks. And why are you interested in the guys bum holea to begin with? It's lots of things, the warmth of having my face between the bum cheeks, the smell (not like shitty arse) just slightly salty, I like sucking the arse hole as if giving it a love bite, like putting my tongue inside it as far as I can where it starts to taste fleshy! I dunno, this is like asking why I like to lick the top of batteries. " I hbdertand i like same things abkur rimming women also hting bum cheeks. When theyre firm and round But i cant explain it either. | |||
"****EDIT- THIS BIT ADDED AT THE ENDNOF MY MUSINGS I MUST POINT OUT I AM NOT JUDGING ANYONE PERSONALLY I AM SUBMISSIVE MYSELF AND ENJOY THE BDSM SCENE AND AM NOT TRYING TO PORTAY IT OR ART OR ANYTHING IN A NEGATIVE LIGHT SIMPLY PONERING THE HUMAN CONDITON*** " We really would need a question Time panel with the right level of diversity to answer this effectively and even that would be personal opinion not fact. The prison experiment thing had the jailors increase their abuse of power after they were prompted not because they were nasty bastards so already it wasn't an instinct thing. I will happily sit on your panel though | |||
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"i really dont know where you looked or where your forayed but this is nothing like the BDSM scene that i have experienced screw the roses bring me thorns..is a great book that satisfied these kind of questions to me and my own area of interest, the art of gender and altered state, alongside my experiences as a domme and a sub, are in complete opposition to the perceptions you are saying are part of the scene. safe sane and consensual..is number 1 rule with every dom or domme i have come into contact with. play is within the limits that the sub agrees to.even just a scene is discussed and agreed by both parties before it is 'acted' out....every time both persons acknowledge the availability /use of a safe word. Communication is key and can continue before/ during and after play..aftercare is also discussed and time is allowed for this to be well catered for. if this was breached and the dom/ domme was in the fetish scene they wouldn't have anyone else to play with. the scene so i have found, is very protective of people and takes breaches of trust very seriously. Total power exchange can have many benefits to both people and sub space and dom space, and, how they get there is as varied and as broad as there are individuals. so is why they partake in BDSM relationships..or scenes. i have my own experiences and would not dream of assuming they were anyone elses. are there wannabes yes of course, are there inexperienced souls who really dont know what they are doing..yes and are there a few out there who actually are abusive, yes, but i dont believe its nearly as many as in normal vanilla relationships that experience domestic violence. ultimately total power exchange interrelationships are based on pleasure, impact play creates an endorphin high, ( as do all the other types of play) serotonin, dopamine and endorphin's make us feel good, are mood enhancers and are stress relievers..i am suggesting that pleasure and feelings of well being are behind the BDSM relationships i have encountered and have nothing to do with 'abusive' relationships, victim hood or psychopathic behaviour that is present in abusers and the abused of society.. i hope i have covered your points and stated a clear expression of what i have experienced and continue to experience on the BDSM Scene xx " Very well said | |||
