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Britain's Challenging Children
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Interesting documentary by dispatches, available on YouTube.
97% of primary school teachers say there is at least one highly disruptive pupil in their class.
Can't help but notice it's overwhelmingly boys in trouble. What could explain that? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I don't know why boys should be more troublesome than girls other than acting off to their peers.
Whilst of course I don't condone violence against children in any way whatsoever, the lack of any real punishments or discipline these days must be at least a contributory factor.
In my day the fear of a short, sharp sting on the back of the legs for playing up was enough to keep me in check. You simply can't do it these days and 5 minutes on a naughty step isn't really a disincentive.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest. |
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"I don't know why boys should be more troublesome than girls other than acting off to their peers.
Whilst of course I don't condone violence against children in any way whatsoever, the lack of any real punishments or discipline these days must be at least a contributory factor.
In my day the fear of a short, sharp sting on the back of the legs for playing up was enough to keep me in check. You simply can't do it these days and 5 minutes on a naughty step isn't really a disincentive.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest."
I partially agree, did you watch the documentary? |
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I think the 'experts' are dillusional. They say they have proven strategies for improving behaviour. But that's defining success at the level of 'the child stays in the classroom'. There's barely any ambition the child would learn anything. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I don't know why boys should be more troublesome than girls other than acting off to their peers.
Whilst of course I don't condone violence against children in any way whatsoever, the lack of any real punishments or discipline these days must be at least a contributory factor.
In my day the fear of a short, sharp sting on the back of the legs for playing up was enough to keep me in check. You simply can't do it these days and 5 minutes on a naughty step isn't really a disincentive.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest.
I partially agree, did you watch the documentary? "
No I didn't, but maybe I just have a rose-tinted memory of my childhood and lots of false memories, but my generation didn't seem as troublesome or spoilt (and getting their own way) as the kids of today. Or maybe they did but I just don't remember it that way!  |
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"I don't know why boys should be more troublesome than girls other than acting off to their peers.
Whilst of course I don't condone violence against children in any way whatsoever, the lack of any real punishments or discipline these days must be at least a contributory factor.
In my day the fear of a short, sharp sting on the back of the legs for playing up was enough to keep me in check. You simply can't do it these days and 5 minutes on a naughty step isn't really a disincentive.
I don't know what the answer is to be honest.
I partially agree, did you watch the documentary?
No I didn't, but maybe I just have a rose-tinted memory of my childhood and lots of false memories, but my generation didn't seem as troublesome or spoilt (and getting their own way) as the kids of today. Or maybe they did but I just don't remember it that way! "
I know the discipline methods that worked on me. They weren't explicitly violent but they were a long way off from giving ceetificates for going swimming. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......"
There's more instability in an xy connection so more chance of defects developing in the brain. Boys are more likely to have learning difficulties like adhd, autism and all the other social developmental conditions which affect behaviour.
There are sssooo many arguments as to why the figure is so much higher these days. |
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"In my experience, shit parents.
But that doesn't explain why the girls aren't as bad as boys. Don't shit parents have as many girls as boys?
Hmmm. Shit or non existent father figures?"
The two parents that the documentary showed were single mums, one admitted she'd been an alcoholic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I read an interesting article today about Nurse Waddilove and a parenting book she has written, essentially she argues the modern parent focusses on the child and not the family creating a child that thinks the world revolves around them making them very self centred.
Conversely, the disruptive children I've met through my children, appear to lack attention in their ho_elife, busy parents and little discipline. They play up because it's the only way they get attention from their parents and this behaviour flows into school.
Why boys? Without wanting to generalise, the majority of the boys I've seen that are disruptive either lack a father at home or have no positive male role model in their lives.
Ginger |
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"In my experience, shit parents.
But that doesn't explain why the girls aren't as bad as boys. Don't shit parents have as many girls as boys?
Hmmm. Shit or non existent father figures?
The two parents that the documentary showed were single mums, one admitted she'd been an alcoholic. "
I'll call bingo. |
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"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
There's more instability in an xy connection so more chance of defects developing in the brain. Boys are more likely to have learning difficulties like adhd, autism and all the other social developmental conditions which affect behaviour.
There are sssooo many arguments as to why the figure is so much higher these days. "
Of the arguements, which do you find the most compelling explanations? |
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"In my experience, shit parents.
But that doesn't explain why the girls aren't as bad as boys. Don't shit parents have as many girls as boys?
Hmmm. Shit or non existent father figures?
The two parents that the documentary showed were single mums, one admitted she'd been an alcoholic.
I'll call bingo. "
I think its part of the problem but one of many factors. |
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"In my experience, shit parents.
But that doesn't explain why the girls aren't as bad as boys. Don't shit parents have as many girls as boys?
Hmmm. Shit or non existent father figures?
The two parents that the documentary showed were single mums, one admitted she'd been an alcoholic.
I'll call bingo.
I think its part of the problem but one of many factors. "
What do you think are the others? |
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"I read an interesting article today about Nurse Waddilove and a parenting book she has written, essentially she argues the modern parent focusses on the child and not the family creating a child that thinks the world revolves around them making them very self centred.
Conversely, the disruptive children I've met through my children, appear to lack attention in their ho_elife, busy parents and little discipline. They play up because it's the only way they get attention from their parents and this behaviour flows into school.
Why boys? Without wanting to generalise, the majority of the boys I've seen that are disruptive either lack a father at home or have no positive male role model in their lives.
Ginger"
That all makes sense to me.
What I don't like to see is babies in buggies desperately looking up at their mum who is busy ignoring them by being on their mobile. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Lack of engagement by positive interaction and values.
I know many in education and they speak of the abhorrent behaviour of some. Kids can't can't be expected to behave if they've never been taught how to. Unfortunately so many believe that aggressive behaviour and intimidation gets you what you want as opposed to reasoning and debate.
Children learn what children live. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Autistic spectrum ... maybe ...
Though girls can be on this too ... "
Girls don't usually get picked up or show traits of autism until much later, teens in some cases. Boys it's usually very easy to tell early on.
I've got 3 kids all with autism, 2 boys and a girl. Nome of mine were difficult, they're all different in how they display their autism. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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As a single parent of a child with Dyspraxia i'd say the reluctance to diagnose children under a certain age, the extraordinary long waiting list to be seen by a specialist Consultant (currently standing at 18 months), the lack of real understanding of the different autistic spectrum disorders, the ignorance of people who see a child misbehaving and just ASSUME it's a naughty child, the lack of understanding in society generally.
Why boys mainly? I don't know. My two children are boys.
Maybe i'm just a shit mother.  |
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"In my experience, shit parents.
But that doesn't explain why the girls aren't as bad as boys. Don't shit parents have as many girls as boys?
Hmmm. Shit or non existent father figures?
The two parents that the documentary showed were single mums, one admitted she'd been an alcoholic.
I'll call bingo.
I think its part of the problem but one of many factors.
What do you think are the others? "
Objectively you can see that school is a feminine environment. Sitting around indoors in groups is not what males have been doing for the past 250,000 years. The majority of teachers are female, especially in primary school. That creates a bias in the expectations that define what bad behaviour even is.
To see what i mean, imagine we sent the kids to a military prep school where the focus was fitness, survival skills and team work. I think you'd flip the performance of boys and girls overnight. |
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"I read an interesting article today about Nurse Waddilove and a parenting book she has written, essentially she argues the modern parent focusses on the child and not the family creating a child that thinks the world revolves around them making them very self centred.
Conversely, the disruptive children I've met through my children, appear to lack attention in their ho_elife, busy parents and little discipline. They play up because it's the only way they get attention from their parents and this behaviour flows into school.
Why boys? Without wanting to generalise, the majority of the boys I've seen that are disruptive either lack a father at home or have no positive male role model in their lives.
Ginger
That all makes sense to me.
What I don't like to see is babies in buggies desperately looking up at their mum who is busy ignoring them by being on their mobile. "
She's busy typing out a post on mumsnet about how her children are the most important thing in the world to her |
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"Interesting documentary by dispatches, available on YouTube.
97% of primary school teachers say there is at least one highly disruptive pupil in their class.
Can't help but notice it's overwhelmingly boys in trouble. What could explain that? "
Lack of the cane, bring it back we say, even our lad agrees! |
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"As a single parent of a child with Dyspraxia i'd say the reluctance to diagnose children under a certain age, the extraordinary long waiting list to be seen by a specialist Consultant (currently standing at 18 months), the lack of real understanding of the different autistic spectrum disorders, the ignorance of people who see a child misbehaving and just ASSUME it's a naughty child, the lack of understanding in society generally.
Why boys mainly? I don't know. My two children are boys.
Maybe i'm just a shit mother. "
Perhaps have a read of my post on the feminine environment, it's all very well saying a child has a behaviour disorder but who gets to decide what good behaviour is in the first place? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As a single parent of a child with Dyspraxia i'd say the reluctance to diagnose children under a certain age, the extraordinary long waiting list to be seen by a specialist Consultant (currently standing at 18 months), the lack of real understanding of the different autistic spectrum disorders, the ignorance of people who see a child misbehaving and just ASSUME it's a naughty child, the lack of understanding in society generally.
Why boys mainly? I don't know. My two children are boys.
Maybe i'm just a shit mother.
Perhaps have a read of my post on the feminine environment, it's all very well saying a child has a behaviour disorder but who gets to decide what good behaviour is in the first place? "
No thanks, i'll leave you and your chums to carry on slagging off single mums.
|
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"As a single parent of a child with Dyspraxia i'd say the reluctance to diagnose children under a certain age, the extraordinary long waiting list to be seen by a specialist Consultant (currently standing at 18 months), the lack of real understanding of the different autistic spectrum disorders, the ignorance of people who see a child misbehaving and just ASSUME it's a naughty child, the lack of understanding in society generally.
Why boys mainly? I don't know. My two children are boys.
Maybe i'm just a shit mother.
Perhaps have a read of my post on the feminine environment, it's all very well saying a child has a behaviour disorder but who gets to decide what good behaviour is in the first place?
No thanks, i'll leave you and your chums to carry on slagging off single mums.
"
I've not slagged off single mums at all thank you |
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"As a single parent of a child with Dyspraxia i'd say the reluctance to diagnose children under a certain age, the extraordinary long waiting list to be seen by a specialist Consultant (currently standing at 18 months), the lack of real understanding of the different autistic spectrum disorders, the ignorance of people who see a child misbehaving and just ASSUME it's a naughty child, the lack of understanding in society generally.
Why boys mainly? I don't know. My two children are boys.
Maybe i'm just a shit mother.
Perhaps have a read of my post on the feminine environment, it's all very well saying a child has a behaviour disorder but who gets to decide what good behaviour is in the first place? "
Good behaviour isn't jumping onto the desks . Assaulting the teacher and other pupils. Running out of the school grounds. Trying to climb onto the school buildings.... etc etc |
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"As a single parent of a child with Dyspraxia i'd say the reluctance to diagnose children under a certain age, the extraordinary long waiting list to be seen by a specialist Consultant (currently standing at 18 months), the lack of real understanding of the different autistic spectrum disorders, the ignorance of people who see a child misbehaving and just ASSUME it's a naughty child, the lack of understanding in society generally.
Why boys mainly? I don't know. My two children are boys.
Maybe i'm just a shit mother.
Perhaps have a read of my post on the feminine environment, it's all very well saying a child has a behaviour disorder but who gets to decide what good behaviour is in the first place?
Good behaviour isn't jumping onto the desks . Assaulting the teacher and other pupils. Running out of the school grounds. Trying to climb onto the school buildings.... etc etc"
It's easy to say what it isn't. Try saying what it is. |
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"Some kids are little shits 
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home? "
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time |
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By *eliWoman
over a year ago
I'll know it when I find it. |
"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time "
Do you think a reasonable woman would? No snide meant. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it. |
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time
Do you think a reasonable woman would? No snide meant. "
Yes. I think the average reasonable female is far more content to sit in a group of their peers and make some craft / art, play some music or listen to an adult talk.
Conversely the average reasonable male would like to do a lot more competitive sport than the 1-3 hours a week they do, would rather build something of practical value or do some kind of team task.
Average being the key word. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time "
Though that's a generalisation of boys with regards to their behaviour and interests?
If your theory about boys being forced to suffer education in the classroom is correct, then why are there such vast differences in behaviou in schools, dependent on catchment areas? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I remember at school there was only ever a couple really bad kids, and they were all kicked out lol. This being at secondary school
But there was always more bad behaviour, that's more just talking when not supposed to, not doing work and mucking around. I think it's cos they generally were not interested in what we were doing. Having said that I wasn't either but I didn't act like a little shit  |
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"Interesting documentary by dispatches, available on YouTube.
97% of primary school teachers say there is at least one highly disruptive pupil in their class.
Can't help but notice it's overwhelmingly boys in trouble. What could explain that?
Lack of the cane, bring it back we say, even our lad agrees!"
From the age of 9 till you left school you could get the cane, and either Intentionally or absent mindly forgeting your sports kit would cost you the slipper which I had a few times, it was said in later years one of the parents pupils who had had the slipper came to the school and smacked the sports teacher who used to hand it out behaviour problems or not. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Maybe it comes from the more instinctive nature, i tend to find that generally speaking males are more confrontational and express their emotions verbally and sometimes physically whereas women generally find a better way to hide within themselves such as drawing or some form of art/ theatre or music. That being said I'm no expert so I may just be looking at this from a narrow perspective |
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it."
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking |
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We both came from broken backgrounds.
Divorced parents abusive etc, yada, yada , yada
We now run our own very successful business and our child is an achiever due to our old school approach.
Parents use the ADHD as a means of getting more benefits and forget the damage that taking the crap drugs that they then give as a pacifier to their kids is ruining them for later life.
What are they doing and why does no one stop this? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"We both came from broken backgrounds.
Divorced parents abusive etc, yada, yada , yada
We now run our own very successful business and our child is an achiever due to our old school approach.
Parents use the ADHD as a means of getting more benefits and forget the damage that taking the crap drugs that they then give as a pacifier to their kids is ruining them for later life.
What are they doing and why does no one stop this?"
This is an interesting one regarding the medication. I have never had adhd or anything similar but in my opinion I also agree that doctors are too quick to "label" people. Asthma is a big one they just throw around as a condition. Many who are diagnosed with asthma never actually have it. And ADHD is a condition that doesn't seem to be understood too well because some people genuinely have it and struggle to control it but i think many who are labelled as having ADHD simply have what I call "little bastard syndrome" i only say this through personal encounters including family members. I'm not generalising or trying to insult anyone it's just an opinion based entirely around personal experiences |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking "
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel. |
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time
Though that's a generalisation of boys with regards to their behaviour and interests?
If your theory about boys being forced to suffer education in the classroom is correct, then why are there such vast differences in behaviou in schools, dependent on catchment areas? "
Yes but there are general trends at the aggregate level of gender, with significant individual differences. Do you know the ratio of male to female murders for example?
To your point i think the environment is skewed in favour of girls to start with. Not by design or any kind of conspiracy, just because whatever the environment - it's unlikely to be perfectly balanced. I think that attention, resources and life skills can help boys cope with the environment. But the absence of things highlights the fundamental divide. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time
Though that's a generalisation of boys with regards to their behaviour and interests?
If your theory about boys being forced to suffer education in the classroom is correct, then why are there such vast differences in behaviou in schools, dependent on catchment areas?
Yes but there are general trends at the aggregate level of gender, with significant individual differences. Do you know the ratio of male to female murders for example?
To your point i think the environment is skewed in favour of girls to start with. Not by design or any kind of conspiracy, just because whatever the environment - it's unlikely to be perfectly balanced. I think that attention, resources and life skills can help boys cope with the environment. But the absence of things highlights the fundamental divide. "
This is a point I wanted to make but put far more articulately.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel."
I think it's easier for a girl to confide in her mother and talk about issues. But alot of males seem to have problems in speaking with their father and don't want to be seen as weak or show emotion as men are depicted as strong and fearless even in movies and such. I believe young men should be taught that showing emotions and even tears doesn't imply weakness. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line."
with the first point, a lot of the disruptive kids at my school were in the football and rugby teams, and chose P.E at A level |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line."
Our Primary School has recently adopted the run a mile a day programme and the Teacher at parent's evening did say that she noticed an improvement in the behaviour of the class as a whole, so they (the School) were going to continue it.
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel."
You can say everyone is an individual but then there are a few techniques that will be sifficient for the vast majority of pupils.
I agree with boys being told to grow a pair. Perhaps girls as well if they ever want a serious career. The world is competitive and sitting around talking about their feelings is not going to be a useful behaviour in adult life. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time
Though that's a generalisation of boys with regards to their behaviour and interests?
If your theory about boys being forced to suffer education in the classroom is correct, then why are there such vast differences in behaviou in schools, dependent on catchment areas?
Yes but there are general trends at the aggregate level of gender, with significant individual differences. Do you know the ratio of male to female murders for example?
To your point i think the environment is skewed in favour of girls to start with. Not by design or any kind of conspiracy, just because whatever the environment - it's unlikely to be perfectly balanced. I think that attention, resources and life skills can help boys cope with the environment. But the absence of things highlights the fundamental divide. "
Yes valid points. And maybe governments turning schools into factories to churn out kids with results based on a curriculum that they see fit, as opposed to a broader education is an issue.
Modern society is churning out people who feel they have no real purpose on a grand scale. Kids respond far better to praise and sense of achievement and value, and of course they all have differing talents and strengths.
I think your point suggests that boys are simply by nature, a different breed? Maybe, but they function in society with girls, so educate them to interact with them equally and as equals....from both perspectives? |
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line.
Our Primary School has recently adopted the run a mile a day programme and the Teacher at parent's evening did say that she noticed an improvement in the behaviour of the class as a whole, so they (the School) were going to continue it.
"
When you have a lot of energy, classrooms are excruciatingly boring. When you've exhausted yourself for the day, you at least want to be inside and sat down which is a good start. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line.
Our Primary School has recently adopted the run a mile a day programme and the Teacher at parent's evening did say that she noticed an improvement in the behaviour of the class as a whole, so they (the School) were going to continue it.
When you have a lot of energy, classrooms are excruciatingly boring. When you've exhausted yourself for the day, you at least want to be inside and sat down which is a good start. "
At the same time when kids are tired they can be just as bad |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel.
I think it's easier for a girl to confide in her mother and talk about issues. But alot of males seem to have problems in speaking with their father and don't want to be seen as weak or show emotion as men are depicted as strong and fearless even in movies and such. I believe young men should be taught that showing emotions and even tears doesn't imply weakness."
this is exactly what i'm talking about. thanks.
i do think cognitive function affects how a neglected or abused child will act up and how aggressive they will be also. but not on a plane level. some children can rationalise the best way to get what they are lacking (in the way children think).
so, not to forget that children do not think in the same way as adults do. children internalise a lot, more so at ages where they do not understand that other people are separate from themselves. blaming themselves and shame can come into how they're feeling, trying to change a situation they have no control over, combined with not having experience in productive ways of how to deal with things, makes this more complex. |
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time
Though that's a generalisation of boys with regards to their behaviour and interests?
If your theory about boys being forced to suffer education in the classroom is correct, then why are there such vast differences in behaviou in schools, dependent on catchment areas?
Yes but there are general trends at the aggregate level of gender, with significant individual differences. Do you know the ratio of male to female murders for example?
To your point i think the environment is skewed in favour of girls to start with. Not by design or any kind of conspiracy, just because whatever the environment - it's unlikely to be perfectly balanced. I think that attention, resources and life skills can help boys cope with the environment. But the absence of things highlights the fundamental divide.
Yes valid points. And maybe governments turning schools into factories to churn out kids with results based on a curriculum that they see fit, as opposed to a broader education is an issue.
Modern society is churning out people who feel they have no real purpose on a grand scale. Kids respond far better to praise and sense of achievement and value, and of course they all have differing talents and strengths.
I think your point suggests that boys are simply by nature, a different breed? Maybe, but they function in society with girls, so educate them to interact with them equally and as equals....from both perspectives?"
I think kids need to have the option because boys and girls are two crude categories with large differences at the individual level. But i deeply resent having to spend more time in art and music lessons than on sport. Both were a complete waste of time for me personally. Nearly all my 'bad behaviour' was concentrated in lessons that personally i consider pointless for myself and my life goals. Ergo, if i hadn't been forced to do those lessons the bad behaviour never would have occurred. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel.
I think it's easier for a girl to confide in her mother and talk about issues. But alot of males seem to have problems in speaking with their father and don't want to be seen as weak or show emotion as men are depicted as strong and fearless even in movies and such. I believe young men should be taught that showing emotions and even tears doesn't imply weakness.
this is exactly what i'm talking about. thanks.
i do think cognitive function affects how a neglected or abused child will act up and how aggressive they will be also. but not on a plane level. some children can rationalise the best way to get what they are lacking (in the way children think).
so, not to forget that children do not think in the same way as adults do. children internalise a lot, more so at ages where they do not understand that other people are separate from themselves. blaming themselves and shame can come into how they're feeling, trying to change a situation they have no control over, combined with not having experience in productive ways of how to deal with things, makes this more complex."
Agreed. There's also a very small element of nature not nurture in the sense that you can either choose to become what you hate or strive to be better, stronger and a have a positive impact on the world. |
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line.
Our Primary School has recently adopted the run a mile a day programme and the Teacher at parent's evening did say that she noticed an improvement in the behaviour of the class as a whole, so they (the School) were going to continue it.
When you have a lot of energy, classrooms are excruciatingly boring. When you've exhausted yourself for the day, you at least want to be inside and sat down which is a good start. At the same time when kids are tired they can be just as bad "
Tired has different meanings. Sleep deprived is always bad for learning. Physically tired isn't the same as mentally tired. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel.
You can say everyone is an individual but then there are a few techniques that will be sifficient for the vast majority of pupils.
I agree with boys being told to grow a pair. Perhaps girls as well if they ever want a serious career. The world is competitive and sitting around talking about their feelings is not going to be a useful behaviour in adult life. "
i said for some things maybe. seeing as this seems to work for the majority already. theere are different ways of reinforcing and punishing also, what works for one will not work for all. but fundamentally there is some issue with the child to start off with that needs sorting.
but this is exactly what i mean about invalidating others feelings because they are more sensitive. not everyone is capable of not feeling thing that others cannot feel, your emotions and feelings are internal. hiding them away can cause problems, not dealing with them does not make them go away (even if they are buried deep).
giving people the skills to handle their emotions in a non-destructive way = better. and is how special needs schools work already. these schools have less children to a class so they can understand the child on a deeper level and tailor what works to each child individually so that they not only get a better education but also can function in our society on a level that is more productive to all in it. |
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time "
If that was true it would be more than one or two males in a class. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel.
I think it's easier for a girl to confide in her mother and talk about issues. But alot of males seem to have problems in speaking with their father and don't want to be seen as weak or show emotion as men are depicted as strong and fearless even in movies and such. I believe young men should be taught that showing emotions and even tears doesn't imply weakness.
this is exactly what i'm talking about. thanks.
i do think cognitive function affects how a neglected or abused child will act up and how aggressive they will be also. but not on a plane level. some children can rationalise the best way to get what they are lacking (in the way children think).
so, not to forget that children do not think in the same way as adults do. children internalise a lot, more so at ages where they do not understand that other people are separate from themselves. blaming themselves and shame can come into how they're feeling, trying to change a situation they have no control over, combined with not having experience in productive ways of how to deal with things, makes this more complex.
Agreed. There's also a very small element of nature not nurture in the sense that you can either choose to become what you hate or strive to be better, stronger and a have a positive impact on the world. "
i'm still on the side of nurture more than anything affects us, unless there are certain abnormalities in the brain.
wondering where critical thinking comes into this and how now. i know it must do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line. with the first point, a lot of the disruptive kids at my school were in the football and rugby teams, and chose P.E at A level "
Completely agree with that perspective. Same at my school.
However what I noticed were that the school teams were more LADS clubs. Thats why I quit the school rugby team. The issue was that the teachers got pally with ghe students and there was not discipline.
Physical discipline and educational discipline go hand in hand. This has been know by many western and eastern civilisations. |
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My son is 13. He's a good boy. I make sure. Next door but 3 is a 12 year old boy. He has issues. When I'm kissing my son goodnight and asking him about his upcoming day, the boy from up the road is still out and about on his bike. His parent's dont seem to mind. But they don't know why he can't concentrate at school.... |
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"I think boys haven't been encouraged to vent their emotions is the same ways girls are. I also think, for women, they learn at a young age that they aren't as important as men, so put up with more abuse than boys do.
I know there's a lot more to it than that, but i think that is the crux of it.
Do you think boys and girls should express their emotions in the same way? Generally speaking
for some things maybe. just being encouraged to feel them and express them would be a good start. not be shamed for having 'girly' feelings, things like this. stop telling men to grow a pair, like their feelings don't even matter.
and everyone is individual, so what would work for one male would not work for another. also, if feelings are subjective then they would affect different people in different ways. there are different sensitivities of people, invalidating the more sensitive just because you do not feel the same way as they do happens a lot.
of course there are also people who play on emotions to gain something for themselves. this also affects our sympathy levels i feel.
You can say everyone is an individual but then there are a few techniques that will be sifficient for the vast majority of pupils.
I agree with boys being told to grow a pair. Perhaps girls as well if they ever want a serious career. The world is competitive and sitting around talking about their feelings is not going to be a useful behaviour in adult life.
i said for some things maybe. seeing as this seems to work for the majority already. theere are different ways of reinforcing and punishing also, what works for one will not work for all. but fundamentally there is some issue with the child to start off with that needs sorting.
but this is exactly what i mean about invalidating others feelings because they are more sensitive. not everyone is capable of not feeling thing that others cannot feel, your emotions and feelings are internal. hiding them away can cause problems, not dealing with them does not make them go away (even if they are buried deep).
giving people the skills to handle their emotions in a non-destructive way = better. and is how special needs schools work already. these schools have less children to a class so they can understand the child on a deeper level and tailor what works to each child individually so that they not only get a better education but also can function in our society on a level that is more productive to all in it."
How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Some boys perhaps need more physical or kinetic stimulation? e.g, more constructive P.E lessons, more hands on learning techniques.
Some kids are going to be more disruptive based on any physiological illnesses, or perhaps their parents not being strict enough.
E.g, if a child does something wrong, it is the parent's responsibility to demonstrate to the child why it is wrong and that their are repercussion
when you step out of line.
Our Primary School has recently adopted the run a mile a day programme and the Teacher at parent's evening did say that she noticed an improvement in the behaviour of the class as a whole, so they (the School) were going to continue it.
When you have a lot of energy, classrooms are excruciatingly boring. When you've exhausted yourself for the day, you at least want to be inside and sat down which is a good start. At the same time when kids are tired they can be just as bad
Tired has different meanings. Sleep deprived is always bad for learning. Physically tired isn't the same as mentally tired. "
Agreed again. Obviously you dont want either in the class, but i vaguely remember a paper which illustrated that sleep deprivated children, teenagers and young adults are more disruptive, less organised and able to learn less effectively. |
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"Some kids are little shits
Or a product of their parents lack of love and education at home?
Or forcing them to do things that a reasonable male wouldn't want to do on a daily basis for hours and hours at a time
If that was true it would be more than one or two males in a class. "
See my point above about attention, resources and life skills mitigating the impact. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive? "
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour. |
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour."
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour.
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury. "
I think things such as boxing are a great form of cathartic release. However, i believe young adults should do something like ballroom dancing alongside physical sports to further reinforce skills such as patience, tolerance and also teach them how to treat members of the other sex. Such as how to correctly treat a lady |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour.
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury. "
i based my answers on my understanding of psychology overall. with a few things chucked in from being a problem child myself and the product of child abuse and neglect, including societal neglect as well as caregiver. and a few things based on how special needs schools have worked the past decade as i have some experience in that personally, not working for them i might add.
do you think someone being violent enjoys being violent? if anger is a display of emotion but acting out, then why reinforce that? this question is more rhetoric but if you have an answer i'm interested. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour.
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury.
i based my answers on my understanding of psychology overall. with a few things chucked in from being a problem child myself and the product of child abuse and neglect, including societal neglect as well as caregiver. and a few things based on how special needs schools have worked the past decade as i have some experience in that personally, not working for them i might add.
do you think someone being violent enjoys being violent? if anger is a display of emotion but acting out, then why reinforce that? this question is more rhetoric but if you have an answer i'm interested."
Anger is a very difficult thing to control and once violence is seen as a resolve it must be an exceptional change to undergo in order to retain from it. Some people are violent by nature and will never change but some will use it because they know no other way to release emotion. This is the reason I believe in a very strict environment for them to alleviate their violent tendencies but also educate them in other methods such as dancing or something similar, wether it be running or meditation. Violence is a very strong form of emotion and not something people tend to be able to just turn off which is why it's essential to rehabilitate them gradually through making additional ways for them to learn new releases. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour.
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury.
i based my answers on my understanding of psychology overall. with a few things chucked in from being a problem child myself and the product of child abuse and neglect, including societal neglect as well as caregiver. and a few things based on how special needs schools have worked the past decade as i have some experience in that personally, not working for them i might add.
do you think someone being violent enjoys being violent? if anger is a display of emotion but acting out, then why reinforce that? this question is more rhetoric but if you have an answer i'm interested.
Anger is a very difficult thing to control and once violence is seen as a resolve it must be an exceptional change to undergo in order to retain from it. Some people are violent by nature and will never change but some will use it because they know no other way to release emotion. This is the reason I believe in a very strict environment for them to alleviate their violent tendencies but also educate them in other methods such as dancing or something similar, wether it be running or meditation. Violence is a very strong form of emotion and not something people tend to be able to just turn off which is why it's essential to rehabilitate them gradually through making additional ways for them to learn new releases."
maybe. i do know some people do not want to change, and i think some people might not be able to. i am more talking about the people who are violent as a way of acting out. i'm not sure they would be helped by being encouraged to use their anger because anger is not their true emotion but is a response to emotional needs not being fulfilled. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour.
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury.
i based my answers on my understanding of psychology overall. with a few things chucked in from being a problem child myself and the product of child abuse and neglect, including societal neglect as well as caregiver. and a few things based on how special needs schools have worked the past decade as i have some experience in that personally, not working for them i might add.
do you think someone being violent enjoys being violent? if anger is a display of emotion but acting out, then why reinforce that? this question is more rhetoric but if you have an answer i'm interested.
Anger is a very difficult thing to control and once violence is seen as a resolve it must be an exceptional change to undergo in order to retain from it. Some people are violent by nature and will never change but some will use it because they know no other way to release emotion. This is the reason I believe in a very strict environment for them to alleviate their violent tendencies but also educate them in other methods such as dancing or something similar, wether it be running or meditation. Violence is a very strong form of emotion and not something people tend to be able to just turn off which is why it's essential to rehabilitate them gradually through making additional ways for them to learn new releases.
maybe. i do know some people do not want to change, and i think some people might not be able to. i am more talking about the people who are violent as a way of acting out. i'm not sure they would be helped by being encouraged to use their anger because anger is not their true emotion but is a response to emotional needs not being fulfilled."
I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure."
have they implemented this anywhere?
now i've thought about it, it does make sense if someone has too much anger and cannot deal with that then they'd have to 'train' them to use it more productively.
it's not something i'd personally endorse but i am starting to think of occasions where it might be appropriate. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure.
have they implemented this anywhere?
now i've thought about it, it does make sense if someone has too much anger and cannot deal with that then they'd have to 'train' them to use it more productively.
it's not something i'd personally endorse but i am starting to think of occasions where it might be appropriate."
I'm not too sure if anywhere has implemented this. I would imagine it has been somewher. And of course there are many different circumstances surrounding this topic and some would require a much more specific and personal method of rehabilitation but I feel that my idea could offer a considerable amount of people an opportunity to change. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure.
have they implemented this anywhere?
now i've thought about it, it does make sense if someone has too much anger and cannot deal with that then they'd have to 'train' them to use it more productively.
it's not something i'd personally endorse but i am starting to think of occasions where it might be appropriate.
I'm not too sure if anywhere has implemented this. I would imagine it has been somewher. And of course there are many different circumstances surrounding this topic and some would require a much more specific and personal method of rehabilitation but I feel that my idea could offer a considerable amount of people an opportunity to change."
Somewhere* apologies for the spelling, early starts cripple my late night typing finesse. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure.
have they implemented this anywhere?
now i've thought about it, it does make sense if someone has too much anger and cannot deal with that then they'd have to 'train' them to use it more productively.
it's not something i'd personally endorse but i am starting to think of occasions where it might be appropriate.
I'm not too sure if anywhere has implemented this. I would imagine it has been somewher. And of course there are many different circumstances surrounding this topic and some would require a much more specific and personal method of rehabilitation but I feel that my idea could offer a considerable amount of people an opportunity to change.
Somewhere* apologies for the spelling, early starts cripple my late night typing finesse."
i'm really tired myself, don't know how i'm still thinking right now.
i do remember when i used to get angry i'd get a lot more physical stuff done than when i'm feeling chill, like the house was spotless because i'd use my rage that way, lol. i don't get angry much though so my house is 'lived in'. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure.
have they implemented this anywhere?
now i've thought about it, it does make sense if someone has too much anger and cannot deal with that then they'd have to 'train' them to use it more productively.
it's not something i'd personally endorse but i am starting to think of occasions where it might be appropriate.
I'm not too sure if anywhere has implemented this. I would imagine it has been somewher. And of course there are many different circumstances surrounding this topic and some would require a much more specific and personal method of rehabilitation but I feel that my idea could offer a considerable amount of people an opportunity to change.
Somewhere* apologies for the spelling, early starts cripple my late night typing finesse.
i'm really tired myself, don't know how i'm still thinking right now.
i do remember when i used to get angry i'd get a lot more physical stuff done than when i'm feeling chill, like the house was spotless because i'd use my rage that way, lol. i don't get angry much though so my house is 'lived in'. "
Haha you must be in my mind now because it's similar story with me. I find running and just pushing myself works. The more anger i feel the further I go. |
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Speaking as a parent of one such child, a lot can relate to behaviours seen in the home environment. My son and I were both abused by the ex husband and the trauma has had a serious effect on my son. It has effected his emotional stability and for the past 8 years we have worked very hard to get him to where he is today. Having done classes to learn how to discipline a child without raising a voice or slapping them, I've learnt that a parent's frustrations rub off very quickly on to their children and mirrored behaviour patterns are very common. If you can't keep control how do you expect them to?? |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I understand your point and I do agree with it for the most part I just believe the physical side of it is what will attract them in the first place to things like boxing, where they would not necessarily participate in normally you are now introducing them to through the sport. Also it gives them a choice and alot of people with such issues have never really been in control and haven't been blessed with the tools to make their own choices. Therefore you are allowing them to make decisions and grow as a person and without needing to apply pressure.
have they implemented this anywhere?
now i've thought about it, it does make sense if someone has too much anger and cannot deal with that then they'd have to 'train' them to use it more productively.
it's not something i'd personally endorse but i am starting to think of occasions where it might be appropriate.
I'm not too sure if anywhere has implemented this. I would imagine it has been somewher. And of course there are many different circumstances surrounding this topic and some would require a much more specific and personal method of rehabilitation but I feel that my idea could offer a considerable amount of people an opportunity to change.
Somewhere* apologies for the spelling, early starts cripple my late night typing finesse.
i'm really tired myself, don't know how i'm still thinking right now.
i do remember when i used to get angry i'd get a lot more physical stuff done than when i'm feeling chill, like the house was spotless because i'd use my rage that way, lol. i don't get angry much though so my house is 'lived in'.
Haha you must be in my mind now because it's similar story with me. I find running and just pushing myself works. The more anger i feel the further I go."
can't believe it took me this long for me to get you though.
think it's way past my bedtime, really interesting topic from the OP as usual though. |
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By *yldstyleWoman
over a year ago
A world of my own |
Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person. "
The person has to change. It's just they can't until the situation does, my posts in the thread are based on providing new situations that will provide new skills and new opportunities which allow the child to make positive decisions and better understand themselves and others. Institutions are quick to label as also stated and it's a very common and unfortunate failing we face now. |
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"How do you define 'non-destructive' though?
If a boy finds that by joining a boxing club and beating the fuck out of someone / having the fuck beat out of him on a weekly basis, helps to resolve his anger issues, is that constructive?
non-destructive means in a way that harms nobody, including themselves. a way that does not cause them distress if other ways are distressing them and causing them to act out.
this is ignoring reinforced bad behaviours, they can be rectified by stopping the reinforcement and implementing other reinforcements for better behaviour.
I think we have a difference of opinion there. I think our differences are typical of male and female views of what good behaviour is. There are deep rooted reasons in evolutionary psychology for these too.
I think the boxing example is perfectly valid and would work for a lot of boys, and some girls. The key points are the violence must be voluntary (i.e. you fight another boxer, not a classmate who didn't voulenteer to box) and it must be regulated by clear rules and stopped immediately when there is a risk of serious injury.
i based my answers on my understanding of psychology overall. with a few things chucked in from being a problem child myself and the product of child abuse and neglect, including societal neglect as well as caregiver. and a few things based on how special needs schools have worked the past decade as i have some experience in that personally, not working for them i might add.
do you think someone being violent enjoys being violent? if anger is a display of emotion but acting out, then why reinforce that? this question is more rhetoric but if you have an answer i'm interested.
Anger is a very difficult thing to control and once violence is seen as a resolve it must be an exceptional change to undergo in order to retain from it. Some people are violent by nature and will never change but some will use it because they know no other way to release emotion. This is the reason I believe in a very strict environment for them to alleviate their violent tendencies but also educate them in other methods such as dancing or something similar, wether it be running or meditation. Violence is a very strong form of emotion and not something people tend to be able to just turn off which is why it's essential to rehabilitate them gradually through making additional ways for them to learn new releases.
maybe. i do know some people do not want to change, and i think some people might not be able to. i am more talking about the people who are violent as a way of acting out. i'm not sure they would be helped by being encouraged to use their anger because anger is not their true emotion but is a response to emotional needs not being fulfilled."
It's easy to get caught up in the boring semantics of it. What one might call anger / violence / aggression, i might call drive / fire / passion.
What i will say is that i am one of them by nature and or nurture. No i don't want to change. I get pleasure from fighting and have competed in it. I only want to fight other fighters though. Knowing that i can fight enables me to walk away from stupid shit like street violence that i used to get involved in before i trained. I think combat is a beautiful thing, we rarely fight people we don't like. In fact, fighting with regular partners tends to create quite a bond. It positively effects your mood and gives you a reason to eat a better diet, sleep better and take care of yourself.
As a child i gradually learnt to control aggression and channel it into productive uses. It's an incredible source of energy and has enbled me to push through difficult things and not give up on others. I see this in a lot of atheletes, entrepreneurs and leaders. The last thing the country needs is to rid them of it and have them sat around expressing themselves through poems or whatever.
Sorry to sound simplistic but a lot of these teachers are trying to teach boys to resolve complex issues the way girls would. In simple terms, a boy can't learn to be a man from a woman. |
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person. "
Exactly, there's nothing strange about a boy who doesn't want to sit in a classroom talking about very abstract concepts. Almost every time i watch a school programme there's a bored kid who asks "miss, when am i ever going to need to use this?" And she basically gives him some bullshit answer that he'd need it if he did a job that 0.01% of the population do. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
Exactly, there's nothing strange about a boy who doesn't want to sit in a classroom talking about very abstract concepts. Almost every time i watch a school programme there's a bored kid who asks "miss, when am i ever going to need to use this?" And she basically gives him some bullshit answer that he'd need it if he did a job that 0.01% of the population do. "
i enjoyed those topics in school, it was my opportunity to grab some kip |
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
Exactly, there's nothing strange about a boy who doesn't want to sit in a classroom talking about very abstract concepts. Almost every time i watch a school programme there's a bored kid who asks "miss, when am i ever going to need to use this?" And she basically gives him some bullshit answer that he'd need it if he did a job that 0.01% of the population do.
i enjoyed those topics in school, it was my opportunity to grab some kip "
To think that i wasted over 2,000 hours of my life in lessons in art, music, geography, French, german and design technology is a tragic waste of life. I'm not saying those subjects are inherently bad or a waste of time for other people. But for me, i hated all of them from the first lesson and i remember virtually nothing and require zero skills for them in my career. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
Exactly, there's nothing strange about a boy who doesn't want to sit in a classroom talking about very abstract concepts. Almost every time i watch a school programme there's a bored kid who asks "miss, when am i ever going to need to use this?" And she basically gives him some bullshit answer that he'd need it if he did a job that 0.01% of the population do.
i enjoyed those topics in school, it was my opportunity to grab some kip
To think that i wasted over 2,000 hours of my life in lessons in art, music, geography, French, german and design technology is a tragic waste of life. I'm not saying those subjects are inherently bad or a waste of time for other people. But for me, i hated all of them from the first lesson and i remember virtually nothing and require zero skills for them in my career. "
Photography. Now that's a useful skill |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
Exactly, there's nothing strange about a boy who doesn't want to sit in a classroom talking about very abstract concepts. Almost every time i watch a school programme there's a bored kid who asks "miss, when am i ever going to need to use this?" And she basically gives him some bullshit answer that he'd need it if he did a job that 0.01% of the population do.
i enjoyed those topics in school, it was my opportunity to grab some kip
To think that i wasted over 2,000 hours of my life in lessons in art, music, geography, French, german and design technology is a tragic waste of life. I'm not saying those subjects are inherently bad or a waste of time for other people. But for me, i hated all of them from the first lesson and i remember virtually nothing and require zero skills for them in my career. "
girls can be aggressive too. on your other point.
i did skip most of my classes for the last two years. i was on report for most of that time as well. i did disrupt some classes as well, just out of boredom. nothing like the kids in the dispatches programme though. but if there ever was a class that was disrupted it was always by the girls, i was in the higher level sets so no idea what it was like in the lower ones.
although i enjoy learning i didn't enjoy what we were being taught either. found a lot of my lessons pointless, i was in the top set for french (i didn't even want to learn french) so i was shoved into the class for learning german (i also didn't want to learn that).
i love learning about history, but social history. and remembering names and dates for points seemed pointless, i actually didn't answer i single question on my history exam in rebellion to that, not that anybody cared and the only person that affected was me really.
i don't think being more physically active would've helped us. there was no aggression towards the school though. i think we felt safe enough to act out there and that is why we did it.i've not got a great memory but it's getting better. i'll try and think about exactly why we did what we did. but i'm remembering some funny stories right now about some of the things we got in trouble for. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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ugh, it was the same on YTS as well, because i got my course work done in twice the time of anyone else and complained i had nothing to do and wanted to go home they shoved me on another course for the afternoon, that i also didn't want to do.
it was a typing course ironically. think i know now why i won't type in the correct manner or use proper grammar any more. got sick of institutions forcing me to do what they wanted. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
Exactly, there's nothing strange about a boy who doesn't want to sit in a classroom talking about very abstract concepts. Almost every time i watch a school programme there's a bored kid who asks "miss, when am i ever going to need to use this?" And she basically gives him some bullshit answer that he'd need it if he did a job that 0.01% of the population do.
i enjoyed those topics in school, it was my opportunity to grab some kip
To think that i wasted over 2,000 hours of my life in lessons in art, music, geography, French, german and design technology is a tragic waste of life. I'm not saying those subjects are inherently bad or a waste of time for other people. But for me, i hated all of them from the first lesson and i remember virtually nothing and require zero skills for them in my career.
girls can be aggressive too. on your other point.
i did skip most of my classes for the last two years. i was on report for most of that time as well. i did disrupt some classes as well, just out of boredom. nothing like the kids in the dispatches programme though. but if there ever was a class that was disrupted it was always by the girls, i was in the higher level sets so no idea what it was like in the lower ones.
although i enjoy learning i didn't enjoy what we were being taught either. found a lot of my lessons pointless, i was in the top set for french (i didn't even want to learn french) so i was shoved into the class for learning german (i also didn't want to learn that).
i love learning about history, but social history. and remembering names and dates for points seemed pointless, i actually didn't answer i single question on my history exam in rebellion to that, not that anybody cared and the only person that affected was me really.
i don't think being more physically active would've helped us. there was no aggression towards the school though. i think we felt safe enough to act out there and that is why we did it.i've not got a great memory but it's getting better. i'll try and think about exactly why we did what we did. but i'm remembering some funny stories right now about some of the things we got in trouble for. "
I guess you could say I was somewhat troublesome in school but mine was more down to inaction from the school in addressing people making comments, a was rather pleasantly plump shall we say and copped more than my fair share of grief for it for a while but after there was no alternative I personally dealt with each and every one of them on the final day of the year. My school was purely the boys that caused problems and it is bad that violence was literally the only way to allow myself to learn. Most of the problems stem from the bureaucracy of schools where nothing matters but statistics of A/C's for the budget. Seems like now they are calling a school an "academy" when it self destructs |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I guess you could say I was somewhat troublesome in school but mine was more down to inaction from the school in addressing people making comments, a was rather pleasantly plump shall we say and copped more than my fair share of grief for it for a while but after there was no alternative I personally dealt with each and every one of them on the final day of the year. My school was purely the boys that caused problems and it is bad that violence was literally the only way to allow myself to learn. Most of the problems stem from the bureaucracy of schools where nothing matters but statistics of A/C's for the budget. Seems like now they are calling a school an "academy" when it self destructs"
yours is different from mine, your school didn't sort that so you had to do something about it yourself. i didn't get bullied, being tiny sometimes people did try to bully me but i also was 'cute' with that (i looked young for my age as well, so looked like a little kid), and so there was always someone willing to stick up for me. if someone did try to bully me it was obvious the size difference was huge and so other people always stepped in.
i'm starting to move towards sometimes the school itself causes or continues the problems. i'm sure most bored kids don't act up though and there will be reasons.
i used to get in trouble for doodling in class. i was bored so decided not to disrupt but to quietly draw in my books instead and even got told off for that.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I guess you could say I was somewhat troublesome in school but mine was more down to inaction from the school in addressing people making comments, a was rather pleasantly plump shall we say and copped more than my fair share of grief for it for a while but after there was no alternative I personally dealt with each and every one of them on the final day of the year. My school was purely the boys that caused problems and it is bad that violence was literally the only way to allow myself to learn. Most of the problems stem from the bureaucracy of schools where nothing matters but statistics of A/C's for the budget. Seems like now they are calling a school an "academy" when it self destructs
yours is different from mine, your school didn't sort that so you had to do something about it yourself. i didn't get bullied, being tiny sometimes people did try to bully me but i also was 'cute' with that (i looked young for my age as well, so looked like a little kid), and so there was always someone willing to stick up for me. if someone did try to bully me it was obvious the size difference was huge and so other people always stepped in.
i'm starting to move towards sometimes the school itself causes or continues the problems. i'm sure most bored kids don't act up though and there will be reasons.
i used to get in trouble for doodling in class. i was bored so decided not to disrupt but to quietly draw in my books instead and even got told off for that. "
And the flipside of that is some subjects i found exceptionally easy like english and maths so I often found myself just occupying myself as I wasn't actually learning anything I didn't already know. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
Why do male hormones and genetics cause more behavioural issues in schools? "
Men are inherently more violent and interestingly have a flatter bell curve when it comes to intelligence than women.
Ie vast majoriy of women fall into a narrow range of average intelligence (the 100 iq) while men are more spread out there are drastically more above average intelligence men but also a lot more sub normal men. (In the top 0.1% above 146 iq there are over 200 men for every 1 woman)
Both low and high IQs can cause problems in children's school lives (get bored or get frustrated etc) so males will be more affected as a group |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person. "
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish... |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"I guess you could say I was somewhat troublesome in school but mine was more down to inaction from the school in addressing people making comments, a was rather pleasantly plump shall we say and copped more than my fair share of grief for it for a while but after there was no alternative I personally dealt with each and every one of them on the final day of the year. My school was purely the boys that caused problems and it is bad that violence was literally the only way to allow myself to learn. Most of the problems stem from the bureaucracy of schools where nothing matters but statistics of A/C's for the budget. Seems like now they are calling a school an "academy" when it self destructs
yours is different from mine, your school didn't sort that so you had to do something about it yourself. i didn't get bullied, being tiny sometimes people did try to bully me but i also was 'cute' with that (i looked young for my age as well, so looked like a little kid), and so there was always someone willing to stick up for me. if someone did try to bully me it was obvious the size difference was huge and so other people always stepped in.
i'm starting to move towards sometimes the school itself causes or continues the problems. i'm sure most bored kids don't act up though and there will be reasons.
i used to get in trouble for doodling in class. i was bored so decided not to disrupt but to quietly draw in my books instead and even got told off for that.
And the flipside of that is some subjects i found exceptionally easy like english and maths so I often found myself just occupying myself as I wasn't actually learning anything I didn't already know. "
that's exactly how my YTS was. don't know why everyone else was struggling with that course tbh as it was too easy. it was basic maths most of the time. |
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"Speaking as a parent of one such child, a lot can relate to behaviours seen in the home environment. My son and I were both abused by the ex husband and the trauma has had a serious effect on my son. It has effected his emotional stability and for the past 8 years we have worked very hard to get him to where he is today. Having done classes to learn how to discipline a child without raising a voice or slapping them, I've learnt that a parent's frustrations rub off very quickly on to their children and mirrored behaviour patterns are very common. If you can't keep control how do you expect them to??"
I totally agree with this, but you are very brave considering how many people blame single mothers without thinking of the decisions they have made to be single. Children can have both parents but still not have a positive role model, or can have one who is a very strong role model. I have brought all three of mine up and had some support for my oldest with behavioral issues. Luckily I knew what structures needed to be in place to support my children do well. I am also fortunate in being able to pass this on to other children. Every child and family has an individual story |
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"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
Why do male hormones and genetics cause more behavioural issues in schools?
Men are inherently more violent and interestingly have a flatter bell curve when it comes to intelligence than women.
Ie vast majoriy of women fall into a narrow range of average intelligence (the 100 iq) while men are more spread out there are drastically more above average intelligence men but also a lot more sub normal men. (In the top 0.1% above 146 iq there are over 200 men for every 1 woman)
Both low and high IQs can cause problems in children's school lives (get bored or get frustrated etc) so males will be more affected as a group"
Cool, i didn't actually know all that but i was sure there would be some differences. So do you think it's fair to say the structure of schools is more favourable to the median girl than the median boy (not necessarily by design or conspiracy)? |
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish..."
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish...
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys? "
O.o you think we Base primary school educational methods on the future needs of the economy?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
Why do male hormones and genetics cause more behavioural issues in schools?
Men are inherently more violent and interestingly have a flatter bell curve when it comes to intelligence than women.
Ie vast majoriy of women fall into a narrow range of average intelligence (the 100 iq) while men are more spread out there are drastically more above average intelligence men but also a lot more sub normal men. (In the top 0.1% above 146 iq there are over 200 men for every 1 woman)
Both low and high IQs can cause problems in children's school lives (get bored or get frustrated etc) so males will be more affected as a group
Cool, i didn't actually know all that but i was sure there would be some differences. So do you think it's fair to say the structure of schools is more favourable to the median girl than the median boy (not necessarily by design or conspiracy)?"
For secondary school plus yes.
It's known that boys do better in exams girls do better in course work.
Most courses are now 60%+ plus course work which has been reflected in boys performance dropping year on year compared to girls.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
Why do male hormones and genetics cause more behavioural issues in schools?
Men are inherently more violent and interestingly have a flatter bell curve when it comes to intelligence than women.
Ie vast majoriy of women fall into a narrow range of average intelligence (the 100 iq) while men are more spread out there are drastically more above average intelligence men but also a lot more sub normal men. (In the top 0.1% above 146 iq there are over 200 men for every 1 woman)
Both low and high IQs can cause problems in children's school lives (get bored or get frustrated etc) so males will be more affected as a group
Cool, i didn't actually know all that but i was sure there would be some differences. So do you think it's fair to say the structure of schools is more favourable to the median girl than the median boy (not necessarily by design or conspiracy)?
For secondary school plus yes.
It's known that boys do better in exams girls do better in course work.
Most courses are now 60%+ plus course work which has been reflected in boys performance dropping year on year compared to girls.
"
I agree, when I sat my exams i aced them, I fell asleep during them but I woke up and Aced them, I got B's and A's in secondary school and if it was based purely on exams I would've been awarded the highest grade but it's the coursework that let me down. Same in college, It's incredibly frustrating having to go over information you are already familiar with and repeatedly handing in coursework that doesn't seem to provide you with and skill or methodology that you can apply in your exam. If it was as simple as sitting the exams I would've been far better off. Having said that coursework is the only way for some to be graded somewhat accurately as exams tend to bring out things such as anxiety amongst students and can cause an A* student to get a D grade. |
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish...
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys?
O.o you think we Base primary school educational methods on the future needs of the economy?
"
I was thinking the other way around, the education system produces a load of drones that we don't have any jobs for (although we do invent token jobs for them). I think we lag massively behind on entrepreneurship, the vast majority of large businesses in this country are foreign owned and most of our economy moves money from your left pocket, into your right as opposed to generating new wealth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish...
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys?
O.o you think we Base primary school educational methods on the future needs of the economy?
I was thinking the other way around, the education system produces a load of drones that we don't have any jobs for (although we do invent token jobs for them). I think we lag massively behind on entrepreneurship, the vast majority of large businesses in this country are foreign owned and most of our economy moves money from your left pocket, into your right as opposed to generating new wealth. "
We aren't really famous for much anymore. We've sold off all of our industries |
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"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
Why do male hormones and genetics cause more behavioural issues in schools?
Men are inherently more violent and interestingly have a flatter bell curve when it comes to intelligence than women.
Ie vast majoriy of women fall into a narrow range of average intelligence (the 100 iq) while men are more spread out there are drastically more above average intelligence men but also a lot more sub normal men. (In the top 0.1% above 146 iq there are over 200 men for every 1 woman)
Both low and high IQs can cause problems in children's school lives (get bored or get frustrated etc) so males will be more affected as a group
Cool, i didn't actually know all that but i was sure there would be some differences. So do you think it's fair to say the structure of schools is more favourable to the median girl than the median boy (not necessarily by design or conspiracy)?
For secondary school plus yes.
It's known that boys do better in exams girls do better in course work.
Most courses are now 60%+ plus course work which has been reflected in boys performance dropping year on year compared to girls.
"
I always did well in exams. I'm not especially smart but i wasnt fazed by them and the genuinely smart people often struggled to cope with the stress of it all. Keeping a level head is a skill in it's own right though. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"In my experience, shit parents.
But that doesn't explain why the girls aren't as bad as boys. Don't shit parents have as many girls as boys? "
Research shows that boys are more likely to act out frustrations in an aggressive manner, it would predominantly argue that parental issues are at the core and that they lack the cognitive ability to deal with problems therefore exhibit aggressive (whether physical or verbal) behaviour as it is the only process that they possess.
This does exist in girls too of course, but tends to come out in different ways more often.
This was one of the topics for an end of year essay exam at uni |
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"Hormones and genetic x and Y chromosomes......
Why do male hormones and genetics cause more behavioural issues in schools?
Men are inherently more violent and interestingly have a flatter bell curve when it comes to intelligence than women.
Ie vast majoriy of women fall into a narrow range of average intelligence (the 100 iq) while men are more spread out there are drastically more above average intelligence men but also a lot more sub normal men. (In the top 0.1% above 146 iq there are over 200 men for every 1 woman)
Both low and high IQs can cause problems in children's school lives (get bored or get frustrated etc) so males will be more affected as a group
Cool, i didn't actually know all that but i was sure there would be some differences. So do you think it's fair to say the structure of schools is more favourable to the median girl than the median boy (not necessarily by design or conspiracy)?
For secondary school plus yes.
It's known that boys do better in exams girls do better in course work.
Most courses are now 60%+ plus course work which has been reflected in boys performance dropping year on year compared to girls.
"
With the new system that has just come in, course work plays no part in the exam any more.
So it's now all down to the on the day result. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish...
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys?
O.o you think we Base primary school educational methods on the future needs of the economy?
I was thinking the other way around, the education system produces a load of drones that we don't have any jobs for (although we do invent token jobs for them). I think we lag massively behind on entrepreneurship, the vast majority of large businesses in this country are foreign owned and most of our economy moves money from your left pocket, into your right as opposed to generating new wealth. "
We lag behind developing nations when it comes to entrepreneurship largely due to regulations.
Hard to start a business when you have to pay 9 pound something an hour and fund a pension for your possibly singular worker etc.
And much of our economy is financial yes but we're also a world leader in engineering and chemical/pharmacological supplies.
Some of our biggest exports are nuclear reactor components, aerospace parts and high grade chemicals.
You'll find there's just as many complaints in other countries that their businesses are owned by us (but in a publically traded company it gets iffy as shareholders change continuously). Our financial sector also brings in huge amounts of forgen money
But education as a drag is more the degree level where silly 50% targets have made degrees near worthless and also essential in a bizarre situtation |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish...
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys?
O.o you think we Base primary school educational methods on the future needs of the economy?
I was thinking the other way around, the education system produces a load of drones that we don't have any jobs for (although we do invent token jobs for them). I think we lag massively behind on entrepreneurship, the vast majority of large businesses in this country are foreign owned and most of our economy moves money from your left pocket, into your right as opposed to generating new wealth.
We aren't really famous for much anymore. We've sold off all of our industries"
Aprox 50% of all the world's comercial airliners have Thier wings built in North Wales....
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
Sexism also includes people’s expectations for how members of a gender group should behave. For example, women are expected to be friendly, passive, and nurturing, and when women behave in an unfriendly, assertive, or neglectful manner they often are disliked for violating their gender role (Rudman, 1998).
i think this does explain why women are less violent than men. just found it on my course right now. this site is corrupting my coursework now though with it's discussions. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sexism also includes people’s expectations for how members of a gender group should behave. For example, women are expected to be friendly, passive, and nurturing, and when women behave in an unfriendly, assertive, or neglectful manner they often are disliked for violating their gender role (Rudman, 1998).
i think this does explain why women are less violent than men. just found it on my course right now. this site is corrupting my coursework now though with it's discussions. "
You needed a course to tell you that being unfriendly and neglectful would make people dislike you |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
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"Sexism also includes people’s expectations for how members of a gender group should behave. For example, women are expected to be friendly, passive, and nurturing, and when women behave in an unfriendly, assertive, or neglectful manner they often are disliked for violating their gender role (Rudman, 1998).
i think this does explain why women are less violent than men. just found it on my course right now. this site is corrupting my coursework now though with it's discussions.
You needed a course to tell you that being unfriendly and neglectful would make people dislike you"
i needed someone/something to back me up. i'm trying to be HQ here...
PS am loving learning about cells right now and doing really well. thank you. |
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"Haven't read all the replies nor have I watched the documentary.
However so much emphasis on the behaviour. What about the environment? My own son was excluded twice from his last school and they had given up on him. I fought. Now in a different school, better environment and more nurturing approach hes growing and achieving.
If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree it will believe its a failure. Change the situation not the person.
But in a class of monkeys it would be unfair to change the situation for one fish...
Surely it depends if the economy is more in need of fish or monkeys?
O.o you think we Base primary school educational methods on the future needs of the economy?
I was thinking the other way around, the education system produces a load of drones that we don't have any jobs for (although we do invent token jobs for them). I think we lag massively behind on entrepreneurship, the vast majority of large businesses in this country are foreign owned and most of our economy moves money from your left pocket, into your right as opposed to generating new wealth.
We lag behind developing nations when it comes to entrepreneurship largely due to regulations.
Hard to start a business when you have to pay 9 pound something an hour and fund a pension for your possibly singular worker etc.
And much of our economy is financial yes but we're also a world leader in engineering and chemical/pharmacological supplies.
Some of our biggest exports are nuclear reactor components, aerospace parts and high grade chemicals.
You'll find there's just as many complaints in other countries that their businesses are owned by us (but in a publically traded company it gets iffy as shareholders change continuously). Our financial sector also brings in huge amounts of forgen money
But education as a drag is more the degree level where silly 50% targets have made degrees near worthless and also essential in a bizarre situtation"
We're not really a world leader in engineering. We're not even in the top 3 countries developing artificial intelligence. I'd love to know which british businesses foreigners complain own everything? There are zero british train makers, zero british signalling companies, zero british car major making companies, zero british nuclear energy companies, zero commercial ship building companies. That's considerably worse than france, germany, japan and the US. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Sexism also includes people’s expectations for how members of a gender group should behave. For example, women are expected to be friendly, passive, and nurturing, and when women behave in an unfriendly, assertive, or neglectful manner they often are disliked for violating their gender role (Rudman, 1998).
i think this does explain why women are less violent than men. just found it on my course right now. this site is corrupting my coursework now though with it's discussions. "
The whole patriarchal nature of life will have an impact for sure, as will genetics and environment.
In kids it's arguably different to in adults though through hormonal changes impacting upon behaviour.
Again, it's not a standard thing of course, personality traits as well as tonnes of other factors also come into play. |
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By *orum TrollWoman
over a year ago
•+• Access Denied •+• |
"Sexism also includes people’s expectations for how members of a gender group should behave. For example, women are expected to be friendly, passive, and nurturing, and when women behave in an unfriendly, assertive, or neglectful manner they often are disliked for violating their gender role (Rudman, 1998).
i think this does explain why women are less violent than men. just found it on my course right now. this site is corrupting my coursework now though with it's discussions.
The whole patriarchal nature of life will have an impact for sure, as will genetics and environment.
In kids it's arguably different to in adults though through hormonal changes impacting upon behaviour.
Again, it's not a standard thing of course, personality traits as well as tonnes of other factors also come into play."
literally was up to the section on aggression on this course after that but got distracted by something else, well a few things actually.
it does mention the evolutionary theory OP was on about as well some other theories that also won't really apply to children, like sexual aggression.
i've been quite fortunate in that i haven't really experienced puberty causing aggression, for myself or my children, but haven't been brought up in typical environment so not sure if my experiences would apply to normal theories anyway. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
I think only one disruptive pupil is quite good going.
My old man was a total shit at school and he got beaten with shoes fairly regularly.
I was slightly less of a shit, and we had pressups and that as punishments. Now kids don't really seem to look up from their phones, bullying is done remotely and they seem quite isolated. They also appear not to be able to get away with anything as "youthful high-jinks", as we did.
I think kids have it much harder nowadays than we did. A cold bottle of beer bought "over the back wall" of the shop and consumed in the churchyard was the ulltimate as a 14 year old.... |
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