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Teacher suspended after praising pupil using the wrong gender
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"I must admit that some of these sexuality issues in recent times still confuse me but I am open minded enough to want to understand. So please what are people's opinions on this? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5073511/amp/Teacher-suspended-praising-pupil-using-wrong-gender.html" I read the headlines yesterday, a slip of the tongue should be forgiven, if it had have something more malicious then it would be rightly deserved. I'm not one easily offended and generally forgive and forget so I do think this is a bit of an extreme reaction. Ginger | |||
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"Two things; 1.There will be more to this than just addressing the child in the wrong gender 2. The story is in the Daily Fail, so most likely inaccurate and with a hidden agenda" this.. | |||
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"I'm actually getting sick to death of hearing about gender. Couldn't give a fuck which gender someone is. Never heard of anything like this a year ago and that's all I've heard since. People need to stop pussy footing around and just get on with it x" Said the same yesterday. | |||
"I've had things like that said to me over the years - "sayings" that are just habit and slip out before you realise. Did I kick up a fuss? No. Why? Because I live in the real world where our mouths can sometimes work faster than our brains, especially if our brains haven't got used to changes. Hell I've even referred to myself as female when I first started transitioning and my ears still prick when I hear my old name, it takes time. And I certainly wouldn't kick up a fuss if it was a genuine slip up and the person apologised. Reading through the article there appears to be more to this story, there are issues between the teacher and the student. This is either down to the teacher not actually being fully accepting and being obvious about it and/or the student being one of those "you're either fully accepting or you are fully against me there is no middle ground.". Part of me hopes it's the teacher being a dick or else that child is going to give everyone who slips up hell for the rest of their life and find that biting everyone's head off for the smallest thing can lead to a very lonely and miserable life as everyone starts avoiding you. It's no fun watching every little thing you say just in case it will be taken as an insult. I've experienced transpeople like this, mainly youngsters, and it's damaging to them but they just won't see it." Agree. We don't know the full story. The teacher may deliberately use the wrong term all the time. But it's hard to change too. Our friend changed her first name in school and we were forever calling her by her old name. It wasn't deliberate, just habit. She knew that but it still made us- and her- all feel bad. | |||
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"Notice how you only ever seem to hear about this kind of thing through certain news outlets? Rarely, if ever, in real life. There's an excellent business model in exaggerating stories to stoke up outrage amongst people and sell papers. These are businesses. They exist to take your money, not to inform." 
..and to influence the gullible. | |||
"Notice how you only ever seem to hear about this kind of thing through certain news outlets? Rarely, if ever, in real life. There's an excellent business model in exaggerating stories to stoke up outrage amongst people and sell papers. These are businesses. They exist to take your money, not to inform." . Does that include the guardian  | |||
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"Whether or not there is an ounce of truth to this story, unfortunately it seems there are sad individuals who will take umberance to a comment or action and blow it out of all proportion. . It seems the only reason why is they like the attention and to cause problems for others.. it's the little bit of power they are able to gain and they thrive on it.. Equality of any sort is a minefield where it seems common sense no longer prevails and the accused are presumed guilty irrelevant of circumstance or any truth or evidence to substantiate a claim.. " I'm especially hating the current climate of hanging anyone accused of sexual offences before there's any hint of a trial. | |||
"Whether or not there is an ounce of truth to this story, unfortunately it seems there are sad individuals who will take umberance to a comment or action and blow it out of all proportion. . It seems the only reason why is they like the attention and to cause problems for others.. it's the little bit of power they are able to gain and they thrive on it.. Equality of any sort is a minefield where it seems common sense no longer prevails and the accused are presumed guilty irrelevant of circumstance or any truth or evidence to substantiate a claim.. I'm especially hating the current climate of hanging anyone accused of sexual offences before there's any hint of a trial. "This
I don’t think names should be made public until proven guilty. An accusation can tarnish an innocent man/woman’s reputation and it’s not fair.
People will always have that “no smoke without fire” attitude | |||
"Even with the Daily Mail's inevitable agenda of stirring up outrage and click bait it is obvious from their article that there is a lot more to this than one slip of the tongue that he apologised for. The fact that the teacher is so unprofessional to go to the press before the hearing, something that can only have been done to garner public support based on his version of events speaks volumes." Exactly. It says in the article: "However, he has admitted that, as a Christian, he avoided using male pronouns such as ‘he’ and ‘him’." So it sounds like much more than just a one off issue. Sounds more like this teacher was persistently making an issue out of this because of his beliefs. | |||
"I'm actually getting sick to death of hearing about gender. Couldn't give a fuck which gender someone is. Never heard of anything like this a year ago and that's all I've heard since. People need to stop pussy footing around and just get on with it x" That's nice you don't care. To lots of people, though, gender is an issue and there remains a lot of progress to be made. Telling people to shut up because you don't like being made to feel uncomfortable isn't helpful. | |||
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"Education system are Marxist no brains. " Education system IS FULL OF Marxist no brains. Or EDUCATORS are Marxist no brains. 7/10  | |||
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"According to the story,the teacher said 'well done ,Girls' and apologised when corrected. If that is correct then there would be no case to answer. he would have been better off going straight to his union rep as soon as the matter came up." Which suggests there is much more to this than just that incident. It wouldn't have gone so far if it was just that one thing. But of course we won't be told that until it is of most benefit to the papers, and by then people would have already made their minds up about who is being the "snowflake" and being "PC" etc. | |||
"Two things; 1.There will be more to this than just addressing the child in the wrong gender 2. The story is in the Daily Fail, so most likely inaccurate and with a hidden agenda" | |||
"According to the story,the teacher said 'well done ,Girls' and apologised when corrected. If that is correct then there would be no case to answer. he would have been better off going straight to his union rep as soon as the matter came up. Which suggests there is much more to this than just that incident. It wouldn't have gone so far if it was just that one thing. But of course we won't be told that until it is of most benefit to the papers, and by then people would have already made their minds up about who is being the "snowflake" and being "PC" etc." It does seem that either a) the teacher is persistent and refuses to change or b) someone is over reacting to a minor slip up. Not unususal for the cheap press to make an issue out of a non story if it suits their agenda ,though. | |||
"Education system IS FULL OF Marxist no brains. Or EDUCATORS are Marxist no brains. 7/10 "I've worked in schools in thailand and in England. The teachers/educators/entire system is "politicly correct" You must really have a passion for the job because I found working as a caretaker in English schools....I am not envious of teachers! I thought kindergarten in thailand and I was paid alot of money and given constant respect from parents and teachers. "How can you be a teacher when you can't spell" ^^^^because I was teaching ABC and songs DUH! but the job in England pays shit....it's very hard work and you get no respect from anyone... Plus they push political corectness into your lessons. I have no hope for the gender neutral generation. | |||
"Education system IS FULL OF Marxist no brains. Or EDUCATORS are Marxist no brains. 7/10
I've worked in schools in thailand and in England.
The teachers/educators/entire system is "politicly correct"
You must really have a passion for the job because I found working as a caretaker in English schools....I am not envious of teachers!
I thought kindergarten in thailand and I was paid alot of money and given constant respect from parents and teachers.
"How can you be a teacher when you can't spell"
^^^^because I was teaching ABC and songs DUH!
but the job in England pays shit....it's very hard work and you get no respect from anyone...
Plus they push political corectness into your lessons.
I have no hope for the gender neutral generation."What do you mean they push political correctness into the lessons? Do you mean they donyt allow teachers to be racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic ets because surely that's a good thing? | |||
"I'm actually getting sick to death of hearing about gender. Couldn't give a fuck which gender someone is. Never heard of anything like this a year ago and that's all I've heard since. People need to stop pussy footing around and just get on with it x That's nice you don't care. To lots of people, though, gender is an issue and there remains a lot of progress to be made. Telling people to shut up because you don't like being made to feel uncomfortable isn't helpful. " It doesn't make me uncomfortable and i didn't tell anyone to shut up I'm just sick to death of hearing about it x | |||
"I'm actually getting sick to death of hearing about gender. Couldn't give a fuck which gender someone is. Never heard of anything like this a year ago and that's all I've heard since. People need to stop pussy footing around and just get on with it x That's nice you don't care. To lots of people, though, gender is an issue and there remains a lot of progress to be made. Telling people to shut up because you don't like being made to feel uncomfortable isn't helpful. It doesn't make me uncomfortable and i didn't tell anyone to shut up I'm just sick to death of hearing about it x" Why? What harm does it do you? | |||
"Notice how you only ever seem to hear about this kind of thing through certain news outlets? Rarely, if ever, in real life. There's an excellent business model in exaggerating stories to stoke up outrage amongst people and sell papers. These are businesses. They exist to take your money, not to inform.. Does that include the guardian "On occasion, yes. The Guardian aren't above the odd sensationalist story now and then. The Daily Mail, on the other hand, borders on self-parody. | |||
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"I've been in a meeting that got stuck on how to describe male & female (boy & girl) to young children for fear of falling foul of what it really means to people today. For me you're born malexxx or female. Your sexuality, what you wear, what you look like, what you call yourself - all things you should be free to choose. But you are still a male or female." I assume you understand x and y chromosomes and their strange incarnations and have decided to ignore hermaphrodite as that does not suit your simplistic life view xxx I would like more facts on this case so shall not comment directly However it is fact that children can indeed be confused and vulnerable with regards growing up , their identity , their looks for some a lack of support or understanding can lead to a very sad and premature end for others suffering bullying and emotional turmoil , I can't see a problem with being careful I'm also not sure a devout Christian is the best guide upon evolution and biology | |||
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"Assume whatever you like. I'd argue that ignoring the cultural influences on how people are defined, and more to the point how others define others, is a more simplistic view of life. In my opinion the rest is cultural. I don't believe there are people born with the wrong sex of brain - except that they don't affiliate with what society has deemed their sex should. Liking pink, wearing dresses, enjoying romantic novels, fancying men, sniffing flowers... that doesn't make you into a woman. " Sorry how did that relate to hermaphrodite again ? And to be clear are you saying xx is female regardless of genitals or are you saying xy is not a boy if there is no Willy Of course there was tho person who was xy but looked like a girl until testosterone kicked in and of course a thousand other permutations So are hormones , xx xy or Willy or fanny the definitive marker of sex Let's not bother with how the brain has developed that's far to confusing for simple brains isn't it tsk | |||
"Assume whatever you like. I'd argue that ignoring the cultural influences on how people are defined, and more to the point how others define others, is a more simplistic view of life. In my opinion the rest is cultural. I don't believe there are people born with the wrong sex of brain - except that they don't affiliate with what society has deemed their sex should. Liking pink, wearing dresses, enjoying romantic novels, fancying men, sniffing flowers... that doesn't make you into a woman. Sorry how did that relate to hermaphrodite again ? And to be clear are you saying xx is female regardless of genitals or are you saying xy is not a boy if there is no Willy Of course there was tho person who was xy but looked like a girl until testosterone kicked in and of course a thousand other permutations So are hormones , xx xy or Willy or fanny the definitive marker of sex Let's not bother with how the brain has developed that's far to confusing for simple brains isn't it tsk "If you feel an Idiots Guide to Sighense is enough for you to talk smugly about how clever you are - great
When you've matured enough to acknowledge broader arguments... I'm happy to debate. | |||
"Assume whatever you like. I'd argue that ignoring the cultural influences on how people are defined, and more to the point how others define others, is a more simplistic view of life. In my opinion the rest is cultural. I don't believe there are people born with the wrong sex of brain - except that they don't affiliate with what society has deemed their sex should. Liking pink, wearing dresses, enjoying romantic novels, fancying men, sniffing flowers... that doesn't make you into a woman. Sorry how did that relate to hermaphrodite again ? And to be clear are you saying xx is female regardless of genitals or are you saying xy is not a boy if there is no Willy Of course there was tho person who was xy but looked like a girl until testosterone kicked in and of course a thousand other permutations So are hormones , xx xy or Willy or fanny the definitive marker of sex Let's not bother with how the brain has developed that's far to confusing for simple brains isn't it tsk
If you feel an Idiots Guide to Sighense is enough for you to talk smugly about how clever you are - great
When you've matured enough to acknowledge broader arguments... I'm happy to debate."You wrote For me you're born male or female Now that's simplistic and wrong I totally agree that society and it's gender assignment is a poignant and worthwhile discussion however it does not iron over your above assertion x | |||
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"Education system are Marxist no brains. Your kids will grow up into total wierdos. " Not the first time you have mentioned this. Parents also have a role in bringing up children. | |||
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"I've had things like that said to me over the years - "sayings" that are just habit and slip out before you realise. Did I kick up a fuss? No. Why? Because I live in the real world where our mouths can sometimes work faster than our brains, especially if our brains haven't got used to changes. Hell I've even referred to myself as female when I first started transitioning and my ears still prick when I hear my old name, it takes time. And I certainly wouldn't kick up a fuss if it was a genuine slip up and the person apologised. Reading through the article there appears to be more to this story, there are issues between the teacher and the student. This is either down to the teacher not actually being fully accepting and being obvious about it and/or the student being one of those "you're either fully accepting or you are fully against me there is no middle ground.". Part of me hopes it's the teacher being a dick or else that child is going to give everyone who slips up hell for the rest of their life and find that biting everyone's head off for the smallest thing can lead to a very lonely and miserable life as everyone starts avoiding you. It's no fun watching every little thing you say just in case it will be taken as an insult. I've experienced transpeople like this, mainly youngsters, and it's damaging to them but they just won't see it." One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). | |||
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"If you have a look on itv player, you'll find an interview being held on This morning yesterday with the teacher from this article, it's very interesting and will give you an insight into why there is more to this than meets the eye, I'll leave it here and let others form their own opinion, Mrs blue eyesxx" The interviewers were incredibly unprofessional, they deliberately conflate gender fluidity with trans rights. They quote bullshits statistics. The case basically mirrors Jordan Peterson in canada, watch any of his videos on YouTube and he will intellectually destroy anyone who thinks gender is a social construct. | |||
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"If you have a look on itv player, you'll find an interview being held on This morning yesterday with the teacher from this article, it's very interesting and will give you an insight into why there is more to this than meets the eye, I'll leave it here and let others form their own opinion, Mrs blue eyesxx The interviewers were incredibly unprofessional, they deliberately conflate gender fluidity with trans rights. They quote bullshits statistics. The case basically mirrors Jordan Peterson in canada, watch any of his videos on YouTube and he will intellectually destroy anyone who thinks gender is a social construct. " . Like I say, form your own opinion, I'm not here to push mine on others, I know how I felt watching it, that's all I can comment, Mrs blue eyes | |||
"If you have a look on itv player, you'll find an interview being held on This morning yesterday with the teacher from this article, it's very interesting and will give you an insight into why there is more to this than meets the eye, I'll leave it here and let others form their own opinion, Mrs blue eyesxx The interviewers were incredibly unprofessional, they deliberately conflate gender fluidity with trans rights. They quote bullshits statistics. The case basically mirrors Jordan Peterson in canada, watch any of his videos on YouTube and he will intellectually destroy anyone who thinks gender is a social construct. . Like I say, form your own opinion, I'm not here to push mine on others, I know how I felt watching it, that's all I can comment, Mrs blue eyes" . Just to clarify I'm talking about the programme ' This morning' the interview was with Phillip schofield, Mrs blue eyes | |||
"I've had things like that said to me over the years - "sayings" that are just habit and slip out before you realise. Did I kick up a fuss? No. Why? Because I live in the real world where our mouths can sometimes work faster than our brains, especially if our brains haven't got used to changes. Hell I've even referred to myself as female when I first started transitioning and my ears still prick when I hear my old name, it takes time. And I certainly wouldn't kick up a fuss if it was a genuine slip up and the person apologised. Reading through the article there appears to be more to this story, there are issues between the teacher and the student. This is either down to the teacher not actually being fully accepting and being obvious about it and/or the student being one of those "you're either fully accepting or you are fully against me there is no middle ground.". Part of me hopes it's the teacher being a dick or else that child is going to give everyone who slips up hell for the rest of their life and find that biting everyone's head off for the smallest thing can lead to a very lonely and miserable life as everyone starts avoiding you. It's no fun watching every little thing you say just in case it will be taken as an insult. I've experienced transpeople like this, mainly youngsters, and it's damaging to them but they just won't see it. One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). " It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain | |||
"If you have a look on itv player, you'll find an interview being held on This morning yesterday with the teacher from this article, it's very interesting and will give you an insight into why there is more to this than meets the eye, I'll leave it here and let others form their own opinion, Mrs blue eyesxx The interviewers were incredibly unprofessional, they deliberately conflate gender fluidity with trans rights. They quote bullshits statistics. The case basically mirrors Jordan Peterson in canada, watch any of his videos on YouTube and he will intellectually destroy anyone who thinks gender is a social construct. . Like I say, form your own opinion, I'm not here to push mine on others, I know how I felt watching it, that's all I can comment, Mrs blue eyes" At the end of the day, not everything belongs in the realm of opinion. It's simply not acccurate to call that a neutral interview. Usually they would have two people to give opposing view points, but here they had two people of the same view point and therefore took the opposing view point themselves. That is not the role of an interviewer. | |||
"I've had things like that said to me over the years - "sayings" that are just habit and slip out before you realise. Did I kick up a fuss? No. Why? Because I live in the real world where our mouths can sometimes work faster than our brains, especially if our brains haven't got used to changes. Hell I've even referred to myself as female when I first started transitioning and my ears still prick when I hear my old name, it takes time. And I certainly wouldn't kick up a fuss if it was a genuine slip up and the person apologised. Reading through the article there appears to be more to this story, there are issues between the teacher and the student. This is either down to the teacher not actually being fully accepting and being obvious about it and/or the student being one of those "you're either fully accepting or you are fully against me there is no middle ground.". Part of me hopes it's the teacher being a dick or else that child is going to give everyone who slips up hell for the rest of their life and find that biting everyone's head off for the smallest thing can lead to a very lonely and miserable life as everyone starts avoiding you. It's no fun watching every little thing you say just in case it will be taken as an insult. I've experienced transpeople like this, mainly youngsters, and it's damaging to them but they just won't see it. One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain "Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans). | |||
"I'm actually getting sick to death of hearing about gender. Couldn't give a fuck which gender someone is. Never heard of anything like this a year ago and that's all I've heard since. People need to stop pussy footing around and just get on with it x" It will end up like Sweden with all the genders and now there is one called being a hybrid a "hen". I reckon the teacher didnt know who it was. | |||
" One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain
Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans). "No basis in science, yet. Granted when I first heard about it in support groups I was a bit "Really?" but I came to realise that there are a lot of people who identify as it, and not just youngsters, it's not unreal to them and they come from all walks of life with lots of different beliefs, political or otherwise. It's only unpleasant because of our lack of experience and understanding in it. Times will change, science will catch up and for some our understanding and/or acceptance will grow. With genderfluid I think it will take longer than it is taking with transgender and they are starting long after we did so there is already some catching up to do! But also, just like it is with the rest of the LGBT+ community, there will be some who will never understand or accept which is a shame but that's life, you can't force people. | |||
"If you have a look on itv player, you'll find an interview being held on This morning yesterday with the teacher from this article, it's very interesting and will give you an insight into why there is more to this than meets the eye, I'll leave it here and let others form their own opinion, Mrs blue eyesxx" I haven't watched it but I'd already said on this thread that going to the press while suspended and awaiting a disciplinary is totally unprofessional. To follow that up with a TV interview beggars belief. | |||
" One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain
Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans).
No basis in science, yet.
Granted when I first heard about it in support groups I was a bit "Really?" but I came to realise that there are a lot of people who identify as it, and not just youngsters, it's not unreal to them and they come from all walks of life with lots of different beliefs, political or otherwise.
It's only unpleasant because of our lack of experience and understanding in it. Times will change, science will catch up and for some our understanding and/or acceptance will grow. With genderfluid I think it will take longer than it is taking with transgender and they are starting long after we did so there is already some catching up to do! But also, just like it is with the rest of the LGBT+ community, there will be some who will never understand or accept which is a shame but that's life, you can't force people."There's are videos of men online, who have 'identified' as women in order to compete in womens sports. They have then proceeded to beat the living shit out of women using their strength as the advantage (mixed martial arts). I'd say that's pretty unpleasant and highlights the issues with people just deciding their gender on a daily basis. Also, if gender is fluid, why shouldn't anything else be? Can i identify as an old person and get a pension? | |||
" One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain
Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans).
No basis in science, yet.
Granted when I first heard about it in support groups I was a bit "Really?" but I came to realise that there are a lot of people who identify as it, and not just youngsters, it's not unreal to them and they come from all walks of life with lots of different beliefs, political or otherwise.
It's only unpleasant because of our lack of experience and understanding in it. Times will change, science will catch up and for some our understanding and/or acceptance will grow. With genderfluid I think it will take longer than it is taking with transgender and they are starting long after we did so there is already some catching up to do! But also, just like it is with the rest of the LGBT+ community, there will be some who will never understand or accept which is a shame but that's life, you can't force people.
There's are videos of men online, who have 'identified' as women in order to compete in womens sports. They have then proceeded to beat the living shit out of women using their strength as the advantage (mixed martial arts). I'd say that's pretty unpleasant and highlights the issues with people just deciding their gender on a daily basis. Also, if gender is fluid, why shouldn't anything else be? Can i identify as an old person and get a pension? "There are apparently people pretend to be trans to go and creep and assault women and children in public toilets. Does that mean I should still be given grief for being trans? That's what your saying. Because there are some who may pretend that means we all do? But then apparently female to male trans don't exist it's all just creepy men in dresses, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But it used to be a lot worse, bloody dykes trying to be men... If you want to pretend to be a lot older than the age of your body that's up to, hell sometimes I feel a lot older than my actual body age! My damn back will get me one of these days! But it doesn't mean that everyone else is pretending. Some people are actually just genuinely trying to find ways to make their lives bearable to live, but unfortunately there are still those who won't allow this and make big deals out of it  | |||
" One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain
Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans).
No basis in science, yet.
Granted when I first heard about it in support groups I was a bit "Really?" but I came to realise that there are a lot of people who identify as it, and not just youngsters, it's not unreal to them and they come from all walks of life with lots of different beliefs, political or otherwise.
It's only unpleasant because of our lack of experience and understanding in it. Times will change, science will catch up and for some our understanding and/or acceptance will grow. With genderfluid I think it will take longer than it is taking with transgender and they are starting long after we did so there is already some catching up to do! But also, just like it is with the rest of the LGBT+ community, there will be some who will never understand or accept which is a shame but that's life, you can't force people.
There's are videos of men online, who have 'identified' as women in order to compete in womens sports. They have then proceeded to beat the living shit out of women using their strength as the advantage (mixed martial arts). I'd say that's pretty unpleasant and highlights the issues with people just deciding their gender on a daily basis. Also, if gender is fluid, why shouldn't anything else be? Can i identify as an old person and get a pension?
There are apparently people pretend to be trans to go and creep and assault women and children in public toilets. Does that mean I should still be given grief for being trans?
That's what your saying.
Because there are some who may pretend that means we all do?
But then apparently female to male trans don't exist it's all just creepy men in dresses, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But it used to be a lot worse, bloody dykes trying to be men...
If you want to pretend to be a lot older than the age of your body that's up to, hell sometimes I feel a lot older than my actual body age! My damn back will get me one of these days! But it doesn't mean that everyone else is pretending.
Some people are actually just genuinely trying to find ways to make their lives bearable to live, but unfortunately there are still those who won't allow this and make big deals out of it "Other than the fact that two wrongs don't make a right, can you show me a credible news link to a man who underwent gender reassignment just to assult women? I'm pretty sure that's never happened so i think you set up a strawman there. So again i ask you, as a trained mixed martial arts athlete, if i turn up to a fight and identify as a woman that day, should i be able to compete in the female division and fight a woman? Also again, if i identify as an 85 year old, should i then be entitled to a state pension from the day i identify? | |||
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" One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain
Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans).
No basis in science, yet.
Granted when I first heard about it in support groups I was a bit "Really?" but I came to realise that there are a lot of people who identify as it, and not just youngsters, it's not unreal to them and they come from all walks of life with lots of different beliefs, political or otherwise.
It's only unpleasant because of our lack of experience and understanding in it. Times will change, science will catch up and for some our understanding and/or acceptance will grow. With genderfluid I think it will take longer than it is taking with transgender and they are starting long after we did so there is already some catching up to do! But also, just like it is with the rest of the LGBT+ community, there will be some who will never understand or accept which is a shame but that's life, you can't force people.
There's are videos of men online, who have 'identified' as women in order to compete in womens sports. They have then proceeded to beat the living shit out of women using their strength as the advantage (mixed martial arts). I'd say that's pretty unpleasant and highlights the issues with people just deciding their gender on a daily basis. Also, if gender is fluid, why shouldn't anything else be? Can i identify as an old person and get a pension?
There are apparently people pretend to be trans to go and creep and assault women and children in public toilets. Does that mean I should still be given grief for being trans?
That's what your saying.
Because there are some who may pretend that means we all do?
But then apparently female to male trans don't exist it's all just creepy men in dresses, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But it used to be a lot worse, bloody dykes trying to be men...
If you want to pretend to be a lot older than the age of your body that's up to, hell sometimes I feel a lot older than my actual body age! My damn back will get me one of these days! But it doesn't mean that everyone else is pretending.
Some people are actually just genuinely trying to find ways to make their lives bearable to live, but unfortunately there are still those who won't allow this and make big deals out of it
Other than the fact that two wrongs don't make a right, can you show me a credible news link to a man who underwent gender reassignment just to assult women? I'm pretty sure that's never happened so i think you set up a strawman there. So again i ask you, as a trained mixed martial arts athlete, if i turn up to a fight and identify as a woman that day, should i be able to compete in the female division and fight a woman?
Also again, if i identify as an 85 year old, should i then be entitled to a state pension from the day i identify? "I can't, note the "apparently". It's rubbish people throw around as a reason why being trans is made up. Just like people throw around stories of how *individuals* act as if that means everyone who comes under that label is the same and doing it for the same reasons. I don't know. I may have been part of the trans community for a long time now but like I said genderfluid is still quite a new thing, biblically anyway. And just like where people are still trying to decide if it is right for trans people to compete with those who match their gender not their sex, it's still something that is being understood and decided on, by myself as well. As that is determined by the actual age of your body not the age of how you feel, no. I think this is something we may have to agree to disagree on. | |||
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" One thing, the pupil isn't trans (which is a real thing), they are 'gender fluid' (which isn't a real thing). It's a new thing, as in a newly realised and at the moment partly understood thing, not an unreal thing. At one point being trans was seen as not real. It many people's heads it still isn't and to them I'm still a mentally ill woman, a very hairy mentally ill woman with a beard and a cock
But times change and we learn new things about the human brain
Sorry but trans is a legitimate thing. Gender fluid is an ideology pushed by the very far left, it has no basis in science and has many extremely unpleasant implications for the way we organise society (unlike trans).
No basis in science, yet.
Granted when I first heard about it in support groups I was a bit "Really?" but I came to realise that there are a lot of people who identify as it, and not just youngsters, it's not unreal to them and they come from all walks of life with lots of different beliefs, political or otherwise.
It's only unpleasant because of our lack of experience and understanding in it. Times will change, science will catch up and for some our understanding and/or acceptance will grow. With genderfluid I think it will take longer than it is taking with transgender and they are starting long after we did so there is already some catching up to do! But also, just like it is with the rest of the LGBT+ community, there will be some who will never understand or accept which is a shame but that's life, you can't force people.
There's are videos of men online, who have 'identified' as women in order to compete in womens sports. They have then proceeded to beat the living shit out of women using their strength as the advantage (mixed martial arts). I'd say that's pretty unpleasant and highlights the issues with people just deciding their gender on a daily basis. Also, if gender is fluid, why shouldn't anything else be? Can i identify as an old person and get a pension?
There are apparently people pretend to be trans to go and creep and assault women and children in public toilets. Does that mean I should still be given grief for being trans?
That's what your saying.
Because there are some who may pretend that means we all do?
But then apparently female to male trans don't exist it's all just creepy men in dresses, so I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But it used to be a lot worse, bloody dykes trying to be men...
If you want to pretend to be a lot older than the age of your body that's up to, hell sometimes I feel a lot older than my actual body age! My damn back will get me one of these days! But it doesn't mean that everyone else is pretending.
Some people are actually just genuinely trying to find ways to make their lives bearable to live, but unfortunately there are still those who won't allow this and make big deals out of it
Other than the fact that two wrongs don't make a right, can you show me a credible news link to a man who underwent gender reassignment just to assult women? I'm pretty sure that's never happened so i think you set up a strawman there. So again i ask you, as a trained mixed martial arts athlete, if i turn up to a fight and identify as a woman that day, should i be able to compete in the female division and fight a woman?
Also again, if i identify as an 85 year old, should i then be entitled to a state pension from the day i identify?
I can't, note the "apparently". It's rubbish people throw around as a reason why being trans is made up. Just like people throw around stories of how *individuals* act as if that means everyone who comes under that label is the same and doing it for the same reasons.
I don't know. I may have been part of the trans community for a long time now but like I said genderfluid is still quite a new thing, biblically anyway. And just like where people are still trying to decide if it is right for trans people to compete with those who match their gender not their sex, it's still something that is being understood and decided on, by myself as well.
As that is determined by the actual age of your body not the age of how you feel, no.
I think this is something we may have to agree to disagree on."Yes the age of your body determines your age and your chromosomes determine your gender. Now if someone wants gender reassignment (note the name) then there is a proper process for that and i fully support their right to legally change their gender (biologically you can't change it) and i believe their right(s) to gender reassignment should be protected in law. The process for accepting trans people in sport gender categories is reasonably straight forward too. You make some objective criteria about hormones etc and people either meet them or they don't. That's why gender fludity isn't the same as being trans, it's not even similar. It has very nasty consequences and i encourage you to go on YouTube and watch a man (who identifies as a woman) beating the shit out of a woman in a cage fight before throwing in your lot with their ideology. | |||
"Two things; 1.There will be more to this than just addressing the child in the wrong gender 2. The story is in the Daily Fail, so most likely inaccurate and with a hidden agenda" why does it always come to 'Daily Fail' bullshit? Yes there is more to it, and read up on it, even have a look at the CofE, they willing to teach gender issues and support 'gender diversity' which in itself is BS, two genders, male female, BUT they wont let a gay couple who have lived together for many years, who love each other, which in the eyes of God is what we should all be doing, and then wont let them marry in church | |||
"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people." It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole. | |||
" willing to teach gender issues and support 'gender diversity' which in itself is BS, two genders, male female," Male and female are the two biological sexes (putting aside people who are intersex). Gender is much more complicated than biological sex. It brings in ideas of masculinity, femininity, how much people associate with the usual expectations of being a man or a woman, etc. | |||
"I can't, note the "apparently". It's rubbish people throw around as a reason why being trans is made up. Just like people throw around stories of how *individuals* act as if that means everyone who comes under that label is the same and doing it for the same reasons. I don't know. I may have been part of the trans community for a long time now but like I said genderfluid is still quite a new thing, biblically anyway. And just like where people are still trying to decide if it is right for trans people to compete with those who match their gender not their sex, it's still something that is being understood and decided on, by myself as well. As that is determined by the actual age of your body not the age of how you feel, no. I think this is something we may have to agree to disagree on. Yes the age of your body determines your age and your chromosomes determine your gender. Now if someone wants gender reassignment (note the name) then there is a proper process for that and i fully support their right to legally change their gender (biologically you can't change it) and i believe their right(s) to gender reassignment should be protected in law. The process for accepting trans people in sport gender categories is reasonably straight forward too. You make some objective criteria about hormones etc and people either meet them or they don't. That's why gender fludity isn't the same as being trans, it's not even similar. It has very nasty consequences and i encourage you to go on YouTube and watch a man (who identifies as a woman) beating the shit out of a woman in a cage fight before throwing in your lot with their ideology. " Not everyone who identifies as genderfluid is doing it to beat up women. Can we get past that nasty individual for a moment? Or must we have the opinion that they are all the same? Just thinking out loud - Maybe sport is something that genderfluid are just going to have to accept they can't compete in, or, a criteria can be drawn up for them as well or just for people full stop, go on their body type and strength not gender as body type and strength is an individual thing (although there are some basic generalisations/differences in the genders). Or like I said, it's something that genderfluid will need to accept that just identifying as that gender does not equal taking hormones which makes the changes to allow them to compete fairly? | |||
"I can't, note the "apparently". It's rubbish people throw around as a reason why being trans is made up. Just like people throw around stories of how *individuals* act as if that means everyone who comes under that label is the same and doing it for the same reasons. I don't know. I may have been part of the trans community for a long time now but like I said genderfluid is still quite a new thing, biblically anyway. And just like where people are still trying to decide if it is right for trans people to compete with those who match their gender not their sex, it's still something that is being understood and decided on, by myself as well. As that is determined by the actual age of your body not the age of how you feel, no. I think this is something we may have to agree to disagree on. Yes the age of your body determines your age and your chromosomes determine your gender. Now if someone wants gender reassignment (note the name) then there is a proper process for that and i fully support their right to legally change their gender (biologically you can't change it) and i believe their right(s) to gender reassignment should be protected in law. The process for accepting trans people in sport gender categories is reasonably straight forward too. You make some objective criteria about hormones etc and people either meet them or they don't. That's why gender fludity isn't the same as being trans, it's not even similar. It has very nasty consequences and i encourage you to go on YouTube and watch a man (who identifies as a woman) beating the shit out of a woman in a cage fight before throwing in your lot with their ideology. Not everyone who identifies as genderfluid is doing it to beat up women. Can we get past that nasty individual for a moment? Or must we have the opinion that they are all the same? Just thinking out loud - Maybe sport is something that genderfluid are just going to have to accept they can't compete in, or, a criteria can be drawn up for them as well or just for people full stop, go on their body type and strength not gender as body type and strength is an individual thing (although there are some basic generalisations/differences in the genders). Or like I said, it's something that genderfluid will need to accept that just identifying as that gender does not equal taking hormones which makes the changes to allow them to compete fairly?" Unfortunately not because once you enshrine the right of one person to do this in law, then everyone else can do it. Hence why it's a nasty ideology that is about a lot more than just people wanting pronouns of a certain type. | |||
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"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people. It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole." Of course its 'forcing beliefs'. The teacher could lose his job because she wants to be referred to as a he. It's basically saying "I want to be referred to as the opposite sex and if you don't you will lose your job and livelihood" | |||
"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people. It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole. Of course its 'forcing beliefs'. The teacher could lose his job because she wants to be referred to as a he. It's basically saying "I want to be referred to as the opposite sex and if you don't you will lose your job and livelihood" " He doesn't have to accept in his head that he is a female. He's not being forced to say he agrees with being trans as a moral choice. He just has to treat someone with basic respect and make them feel comfortable in his class room. | |||
"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people. It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole. Of course its 'forcing beliefs'. The teacher could lose his job because she wants to be referred to as a he. It's basically saying "I want to be referred to as the opposite sex and if you don't you will lose your job and livelihood" He doesn't have to accept in his head that he is a female. He's not being forced to say he agrees with being trans as a moral choice. He just has to treat someone with basic respect and make them feel comfortable in his class room. " He was talking to a girl, he referred to her by the proper pronoun. I agree with what you say about treating people with respect. But unless he was bullying her or purposely insulting her, he didn't do anything wrong | |||
"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people. It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole. Of course its 'forcing beliefs'. The teacher could lose his job because she wants to be referred to as a he. It's basically saying "I want to be referred to as the opposite sex and if you don't you will lose your job and livelihood" He doesn't have to accept in his head that he is a female. He's not being forced to say he agrees with being trans as a moral choice. He just has to treat someone with basic respect and make them feel comfortable in his class room. He was talking to a girl, he referred to her by the proper pronoun. I agree with what you say about treating people with respect. But unless he was bullying her or purposely insulting her, he didn't do anything wrong" Again, gender isn't the same as sex. You can't really tell someone what gender they are. You don't know how they feel. So when this teacher insists on contradicting how this pupil wants to be addressed, yes it is wrong. It's expressly and deliberatly telling the pupil that he doesn't respect him. | |||
"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people. It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole." No it's about not buying into a ridiculous ideology that is designed to get legal privileges for supposed oppressed groups. | |||
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"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people. It's not 'forcing your beliefs' to ask to be referred to by different pronouns. And it causes zero harm to anyone to say 'he' instead of 'she', for example. The only reason not to refer to people how they want to be referred to is if you want to be a arsehole. Of course its 'forcing beliefs'. The teacher could lose his job because she wants to be referred to as a he. It's basically saying "I want to be referred to as the opposite sex and if you don't you will lose your job and livelihood" He doesn't have to accept in his head that he is a female. He's not being forced to say he agrees with being trans as a moral choice. He just has to treat someone with basic respect and make them feel comfortable in his class room. He was talking to a girl, he referred to her by the proper pronoun. I agree with what you say about treating people with respect. But unless he was bullying her or purposely insulting her, he didn't do anything wrong Again, gender isn't the same as sex. You can't really tell someone what gender they are. You don't know how they feel. So when this teacher insists on contradicting how this pupil wants to be addressed, yes it is wrong. It's expressly and deliberatly telling the pupil that he doesn't respect him. " As I said in my original message, if a woman wants to be a man or a man wants to be a woman then good luck to them, I hope it all works out well and they live long happy lives. But I'm not going to ignore basic biology and grammar just because someone might get offended. If someone wants to change their life then go for it, just don't expect the world to change to suit you | |||
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"The student he was referring to was a girl and he called her a girl. If she identifies as a boy then that's fine, I hope shes happy and can live a long happy life as male. But she can't expect everyone to refer to her as a male, or treat her as a male just because she'll get offended. Nobody should be able to force their beliefs onto other people." Peoples should be free to have private and personal beliefs but those beliefs should not effect their public office. Rule of law should be all that counts. Law makers are struggling to keep pace. | |||
"In the past people were offended and angered by injustice. It was a good thing and needed to effect change. Today people are just simply offended by everything and that doesn't help anyone." It may seem that way but they're not really. They're just less likely to put up with injustice, bullying or being labelled in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. Today people feel like they have more of a voice. | |||
"In the past people were offended and angered by injustice. It was a good thing and needed to effect change. Today people are just simply offended by everything and that doesn't help anyone. It may seem that way but they're not really. They're just less likely to put up with injustice, bullying or being labelled in a way that makes them feel uncomfortable. Today people feel like they have more of a voice." I wish they would save their voices for things that really matter. We've got some serious problems in the world today. But we are focusing on things that 20 years ago were just accepted as part of life. | |||
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"Found this in the Oxford Mail... *** The Cherwell School is a 'school champion' for LGBTQ support charity Stonewall – a stamp awarded to schools committed to promoting equality and tackling homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying. In 2015 it was awarded a Big Lottery Fund grant worth almost £10,000, specifically to address issues linked to LGBTQ discrimination and provide workshops to promote diversity. According to its 2016-17 equality policy, six pupils at the school identified as transgender. *** Shouldn't the school concentrate on promoting academic excellence?" Why can't it do both and really set their pupils up to be successful in life as well as work? | |||
"There is more to this story than just the one comment. He is an Evangelical preacher." Why is it that godless people have a right to air their views, enforce them on others, yet the gentle Christian has no rights at all... He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... | |||
"There is more to this story than just the one comment. He is an Evangelical preacher. Why is it that godless people have a right to air their views, enforce them on others, yet the gentle Christian has no rights at all... He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... " Truth and common sense? You mean like Noah and his Ark. We don't need to bring religion into this. | |||
"There is more to this story than just the one comment. He is an Evangelical preacher. Why is it that godless people have a right to air their views, enforce them on others, yet the gentle Christian has no rights at all... He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... Truth and common sense? You mean like Noah and his Ark. We don't need to bring religion into this." ... The teachers a Christian, several posters have mentioned this... Most people in this country would agree with the Christian teacher and his common sense approach... I am a Tran, but totally accept the Christian to have a different viewpoint to me and his right to express it... Those that claim offense or get offended have the problem, they reveal their true natures... As far as I am concerned the Teacher is being persecuted simply for being a Christian | |||
"There is more to this story than just the one comment. He is an Evangelical preacher. Why is it that godless people have a right to air their views, enforce them on others, yet the gentle Christian has no rights at all... He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... Truth and common sense? You mean like Noah and his Ark. We don't need to bring religion into this. ... The teachers a Christian, several posters have mentioned this... Most people in this country would agree with the Christian teacher and his common sense approach... I am a Tran, but totally accept the Christian to have a different viewpoint to me and his right to express it... Those that claim offense or get offended have the problem, they reveal their true natures... As far as I am concerned the Teacher is being persecuted simply for being a Christian" Hmmm sort of. I think that if the pupil was trans then we are talking about a person legally changing their gender, something which is a right protected by law. Whilst most Christians might not agree with it, most Christians would agree they should follow such a law. However, that's not what this is, (despite others deliberately pretending it is). This is about a 'gender fluid' person which is not a person seeking to legally change their gender. So it's worse than being persecuted for being Christian, he's being persecuted for following science!! | |||
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" He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... " His Christian beliefs are not a majority view in this country. 53% say they have no religious beliefs at all. | |||
"There is more to this story than just the one comment. He is an Evangelical preacher. Why is it that godless people have a right to air their views, enforce them on others, yet the gentle Christian has no rights at all... He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... Truth and common sense? You mean like Noah and his Ark. We don't need to bring religion into this. ... The teachers a Christian, several posters have mentioned this... Most people in this country would agree with the Christian teacher and his common sense approach... I am a Tran, but totally accept the Christian to have a different viewpoint to me and his right to express it... Those that claim offense or get offended have the problem, they reveal their true natures... As far as I am concerned the Teacher is being persecuted simply for being a Christian" | |||
"His Christian beliefs are not a majority view in this country. 53% say they have no religious beliefs at all." Valid point. But, as a minority, he is now being discriminated against. The school are contradicting themselves. To promote equality the school should be having workshops to promote Christian awareness and to address issues linked to Christian discrimination. | |||
"Two things; 1.There will be more to this than just addressing the child in the wrong gender 2. The story is in the Daily Fail, so most likely inaccurate and with a hidden agenda" | |||
" He has to remain silent because his beliefs which are a majority view in this country do not suit a minority of forcefull haters of truth and common sense... His Christian beliefs are not a majority view in this country. 53% say they have no religious beliefs at all ." In the last census 64 per cent of this island kingdom said they were Christian,secularists were a minority, along with Muslims, hindus,Jews, sihks etc... So the bulk of this kingdon is a God fearing people, led by a Christian Monarch and a christian prime minister So the | |||
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