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Obesity
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"As has been said above, just about any human behaviour comes with a cost to society in sobe way, so why are you picking on obesity in particular? " Picking on it? It's a discussion. | |||
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"That's not what I'm asking about though." You can't ask one thing but ignore other facts placed in front of you. She clearly makes a point that does reference what you asked. In part yes it is slowly becoming glamourised however it is not as simple as that. Far from it. There are many reasons for obesity or being "fat" or "larger" or whatever people like to call it. It is not always about choice, for some yes they will be obese because they chose to be through eating etc. Some may have other medical conditions that make it more difficult to exercise or whatever. Some medications can cause weight gain. Obesity should not be glamourised, but shaming obesity should also not happen either. People should be made aware and act upon it themselves based on the support and opportunities they have. | |||
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"Besides people with a fat or feeding fetish (whole different subject), I don’t think anyone is aiming to be fat because it’s so glamorous. I do not think it’s harmful for someone who is fat, to feel good about their body. Some word argue that feeling good about yourself may mean you want to take better care of yourself, and in the long run lead to better health. I’m obese, and on the whole I love my body. I am not going to apologise for that. Nor do I think society will crumble because I love my big fat ass." 
Oh there are some that are. That shown on BBC a few weeks ago had somebody on it who was very much promoting it, and not just in a confident way.
That aside I agree with you. | |||
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"No I don't believe so, probably a lot less than we glamorise other body shapes and characteristics. What is your opinion op? " I'm watching a show called "who are you calling fat", it's interesting in the difference of opinions to be honest. I think it's dangerous to think it's fine to be extremely obese but I've no idea what the answer would be if I'm honest. | |||
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"I’m obese, and on the whole I love my body. I am not going to apologise for that. Nor do I think society will crumble because I love my big fat ass." Velouriah, your ass is absolutely magnificent!  | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then." Ba bum ching! | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then." And in terms of fashion models they go past the healthy mark in to the other end of the "unhealthy" body size/shape spectrum. | |||
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"That's not what I'm asking about though. You can't ask one thing but ignore other facts placed in front of you. She clearly makes a point that does reference what you asked. In part yes it is slowly becoming glamourised however it is not as simple as that. Far from it. There are many reasons for obesity or being "fat" or "larger" or whatever people like to call it. It is not always about choice, for some yes they will be obese because they chose to be through eating etc. Some may have other medical conditions that make it more difficult to exercise or whatever. Some medications can cause weight gain. Obesity should not be glamourised, but shaming obesity should also not happen either. People should be made aware and act upon it themselves based on the support and opportunities they have. " I'm not ignoring other facts, just a conversation about obesity rather than other than things that cost the NHS etc. Just interested in opinions while watching a TV show. I'm also most definitely not picking on obesity or anything else. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. And in terms of fashion models they go past the healthy mark in to the other end of the "unhealthy" body size/shape spectrum. " Yes Lots of models - and professional athletes - do not have periods because of their low body fat. And this means they end up with brittle bones and arthritis in older age. Also I bet you didn’t know that for older women, research has shown that being overweight (not obese) is associated with longer life span than being Normal or low BMI | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. And in terms of fashion models they go past the healthy mark in to the other end of the "unhealthy" body size/shape spectrum. " Exactly I personally feel that it's the slimmer celebrities are glamorized the most. So I'm a bit confused with the question in this thread. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then." I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... | |||
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"That's not what I'm asking about though. You can't ask one thing but ignore other facts placed in front of you. She clearly makes a point that does reference what you asked. In part yes it is slowly becoming glamourised however it is not as simple as that. Far from it. There are many reasons for obesity or being "fat" or "larger" or whatever people like to call it. It is not always about choice, for some yes they will be obese because they chose to be through eating etc. Some may have other medical conditions that make it more difficult to exercise or whatever. Some medications can cause weight gain. Obesity should not be glamourised, but shaming obesity should also not happen either. People should be made aware and act upon it themselves based on the support and opportunities they have. I'm not ignoring other facts, just a conversation about obesity rather than other than things that cost the NHS etc. Just interested in opinions while watching a TV show. I'm also most definitely not picking on obesity or anything else. " But you reference the NHS yourself as part of the reason or factor in it aiding to glamourise obesity. Other unhealthy things as was stated cost the NHS but is always used as a negative towards obesity, never about smoking or drinking or drugs. "don't do these things because they cost the NHS" is rarely said but "don't be far because you cost the nhs". It is a part of the discussion, therfore so are other lifestyle choices that cost the NHS. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. And in terms of fashion models they go past the healthy mark in to the other end of the "unhealthy" body size/shape spectrum. Yes Lots of models - and professional athletes - do not have periods because of their low body fat. And this means they end up with brittle bones and arthritis in older age. Also I bet you didn’t know that for older women, research has shown that being overweight (not obese) is associated with longer life span than being Normal or low BMI" Yes a university friend of mine who became a professional pole dancer and fitness model is currently on a special diet to gain weight as she hadn't had periods in a long time and her fertility is low due to having such a low body fat percentage. | |||
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"That's not what I'm asking about though. You can't ask one thing but ignore other facts placed in front of you. She clearly makes a point that does reference what you asked. In part yes it is slowly becoming glamourised however it is not as simple as that. Far from it. There are many reasons for obesity or being "fat" or "larger" or whatever people like to call it. It is not always about choice, for some yes they will be obese because they chose to be through eating etc. Some may have other medical conditions that make it more difficult to exercise or whatever. Some medications can cause weight gain. Obesity should not be glamourised, but shaming obesity should also not happen either. People should be made aware and act upon it themselves based on the support and opportunities they have. I'm not ignoring other facts, just a conversation about obesity rather than other than things that cost the NHS etc. Just interested in opinions while watching a TV show. I'm also most definitely not picking on obesity or anything else. But you reference the NHS yourself as part of the reason or factor in it aiding to glamourise obesity. Other unhealthy things as was stated cost the NHS but is always used as a negative towards obesity, never about smoking or drinking or drugs. "don't do these things because they cost the NHS" is rarely said but "don't be far because you cost the nhs". It is a part of the discussion, therfore so are other lifestyle choices that cost the NHS." I understand this point, it's just while typing they are talking about the cost to the NHS on the show. That's all | |||
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"I’m enjoying the discussion and haven’t been offended! I think it’s good to discuss I’m just a bolshy bitch who can come across as aggressive in my arguments sometimes "Thank you, as I've certainly not aimed to come across as picking on obesity or anything else. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable...." Think the problem is when you start a question using the word guilt and costing the NHS money, it provokes feelings of judgement and shame on those who are overweight. A question asking if the rise in popularity of celebrities who are obese or overweight is affecting people's waistline would lead to a much better debate | |||
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"I have a MOT every 6 months, because my blood pressure is slightly high. Apart from weight - I'm in great shape. All my 'levels' are good or very good. So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. " I am exactly the same, no health issues whatsoever, apart from asthma which runs in the family, the only time I visit the doctor is for my yearly asthma check up. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable...." The topics are not the issue, it is the way the topic is presented and worded. If not done correctly you set the tone up to be misinterpreted. Then it starts to go off topic or turn nasty because miscommunication is coming in from all sides. People aggressively defend controversial opinions on topics (with zero room to discuss) just as much as People jump on attacking a subject from the other side. It is impossible to have true discussions when stubborn head strong opinions that refuse to discuss instead of push their opinion. Being open minded allows for discussion, otherwise its more of an argument. This is in reference to posts in general, not this particular one. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... Think the problem is when you start a question using the word guilt and costing the NHS money, it provokes feelings of judgement and shame on those who are overweight. A question asking if the rise in popularity of celebrities who are obese or overweight is affecting people's waistline would lead to a much better debate " Well phrased. I still think it isn’t but I’m guessing there’s probably not studies in to this yet and I’m all about the evidence. It would also be a difficult association to study accurately. | |||
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"Nobody ever listens to me unless I write innit at the end, innit... "What are you talking about? | |||
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"I'll just point out that contrary to popular belief, most fast people don't cost the earth. I've been fat all my life. I've never so much as needed a hospital appointment in my 46 years. I'm not on any medication, nor do I require any. I've had perhaps six prescriptions in my life for antibiotics, two for a venomous spider bite. I've not even had any significant dental treatment though I am in the queue for my first extraction. I do not have diabetes, high blood pressure, dodgy heart or anything else you've been conditioned to believe I must burden the NHS with. And further more, in my 24 years as a body positive activist.... Neither do most fat people that I've met. " ^^ This! | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. " Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... Think the problem is when you start a question using the word guilt and costing the NHS money, it provokes feelings of judgement and shame on those who are overweight. A question asking if the rise in popularity of celebrities who are obese or overweight is affecting people's waistline would lead to a much better debate Well phrased. I still think it isn’t but I’m guessing there’s probably not studies in to this yet and I’m all about the evidence. It would also be a difficult association to study accurately." Totally and would take years of actual study before any papers would be published. I personally think we all need to think how we phrase questions, so that they open debate not exclude people | |||
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"Nobody ever listens to me unless I write innit at the end, innit...
What are you talking about? "Nuthin my love, just watching ppl tell other ppl about themselves.....  | |||
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"Nobody ever listens to me unless I write innit at the end, innit...
What are you talking about?
Nuthin my love, just watching ppl tell other ppl about themselves..... "You confuse me sometimes you do | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable...." I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now  | |||
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"Nobody ever listens to me unless I write innit at the end, innit...
What are you talking about?
Nuthin my love, just watching ppl tell other ppl about themselves.....
You confuse me sometimes you do"Read my first comment and then look at how ppl put others down in order to defend their own personal status in this pit of filth we call fab.... | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality." There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? | |||
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"Woop woop for the bacon butty lovers. "yay | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality." Shouldn't really use one scientist work as fact, this is how the MMR scandal occurred. Not saying he's incorrect he has a good h score. But as a scientist you shouldn't take one source. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now "Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...? | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? " But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". | |||
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"I'll just point out that contrary to popular belief, most fast people don't cost the earth. I've been fat all my life. I've never so much as needed a hospital appointment in my 46 years. I'm not on any medication, nor do I require any. I've had perhaps six prescriptions in my life for antibiotics, two for a venomous spider bite. I've not even had any significant dental treatment though I am in the queue for my first extraction. I do not have diabetes, high blood pressure, dodgy heart or anything else you've been conditioned to believe I must burden the NHS with. And further more, in my 24 years as a body positive activist.... Neither do most fat people that I've met. " My grandad was always very slight and he had angina, high blood pressure and diabetes. He drank and smoked a lot though. I also have a heart condition though and I am neither overweight or a smoker and I don't drink very often so you can be as healthy as you like and still be screwed! | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. Shouldn't really use one scientist work as fact, this is how the MMR scandal occurred. Not saying he's incorrect he has a good h score. But as a scientist you shouldn't take one source." Yeaaaaa bb gimme that big fat impact factor | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". " We can say what we think is wrong with society But what do we want to achieve when we say it Do you want it to get better? Or do you want to make people feel shame and exclusion? Personally I want it to get better, and I think to do that you should avoid shaming. That doesn’t mean you dress up or avoid the truth, but you tell it to people with kindness. | |||
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"Nobody ever listens to me unless I write innit at the end, innit...
What are you talking about?
Nuthin my love, just watching ppl tell other ppl about themselves.....
You confuse me sometimes you do
Read my first comment and then look at how ppl put others down in order to defend their own personal status in this pit of filth we call fab...."Penny dropped, I personally think there is beauty in everybody's bodies, regardless of shape or size and should be celebrated equally | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now
Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...?"The OP only posted because of a programme they were watching, they have said they aren’t pointing the stick at anyone | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". We can say what we think is wrong with society But what do we want to achieve when we say it Do you want it to get better? Or do you want to make people feel shame and exclusion? Personally I want it to get better, and I think to do that you should avoid shaming. That doesn’t mean you dress up or avoid the truth, but you tell it to people with kindness." Agreed, on this show the gp's answer was eat less and do more exercise to the guy. Don't really think that works imo. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now
Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...?
The OP only posted because of a programme they were watching, they have said they aren’t pointing the stick at anyone "My point was that the stick quite quickly got pointed at the OP for daring to raise the subject..... ...they should be able to have a healthy debate without being jumped on imho... ...but who am I... | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now
Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...?
The OP only posted because of a programme they were watching, they have said they aren’t pointing the stick at anyone
My point was that the stick quite quickly got pointed at the OP for daring to raise the subject..... ...they should be able to have a healthy debate without being jumped on imho... ...but who am I..."Yeah who are yaaaaaaa | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now
Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...?
The OP only posted because of a programme they were watching, they have said they aren’t pointing the stick at anyone
My point was that the stick quite quickly got pointed at the OP for daring to raise the subject..... ...they should be able to have a healthy debate without being jumped on imho... ...but who am I...
Yeah who are yaaaaaaa "Just some twat on the net, it's all fake my love | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now
Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...?
The OP only posted because of a programme they were watching, they have said they aren’t pointing the stick at anyone
My point was that the stick quite quickly got pointed at the OP for daring to raise the subject..... ...they should be able to have a healthy debate without being jumped on imho... ...but who am I..."A cold man with large nipples. | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". " Let me tell you about fat shaming. Every day someone thinks it's their duty to shout an insult at me in the street. Every day someone thinks it's fine to offer me unsolicited "medical" advice or to diagnose me from my appearance. Strangers I've never met warning their kids not to grow up "like that man"... Assumptions about my diet and health even from people who I work with. Assumptions that I'm "stupid", "lazy", and the old chestnut about being a strain on the NHS. But there's more! When I go to the doctor with some ailment, I'm always told I'd feel better if I were slimmer. Like that's going to help a venomous bite or tonsillitis. I get it easy, several female friends went with undiagnosed PCOS or endometriosis because docs refused to refer them to specialists... "it'll all get better if you just lose weight". Every. Single. Day. | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". Let me tell you about fat shaming. Every day someone thinks it's their duty to shout an insult at me in the street. Every day someone thinks it's fine to offer me unsolicited "medical" advice or to diagnose me from my appearance. Strangers I've never met warning their kids not to grow up "like that man"... Assumptions about my diet and health even from people who I work with. Assumptions that I'm "stupid", "lazy", and the old chestnut about being a strain on the NHS. But there's more! When I go to the doctor with some ailment, I'm always told I'd feel better if I were slimmer. Like that's going to help a venomous bite or tonsillitis. I get it easy, several female friends went with undiagnosed PCOS or endometriosis because docs refused to refer them to specialists... "it'll all get better if you just lose weight". Every. Single. Day. "
I've dropped several dress sizes in the last three or four years. I'm much more human now, much less stupid, than I was then. Apparently.
No, I just weigh less... | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". Let me tell you about fat shaming. Every day someone thinks it's their duty to shout an insult at me in the street. Every day someone thinks it's fine to offer me unsolicited "medical" advice or to diagnose me from my appearance. Strangers I've never met warning their kids not to grow up "like that man"... Assumptions about my diet and health even from people who I work with. Assumptions that I'm "stupid", "lazy", and the old chestnut about being a strain on the NHS. But there's more! When I go to the doctor with some ailment, I'm always told I'd feel better if I were slimmer. Like that's going to help a venomous bite or tonsillitis. I get it easy, several female friends went with undiagnosed PCOS or endometriosis because docs refused to refer them to specialists... "it'll all get better if you just lose weight". Every. Single. Day. " Who's fat shaming? | |||
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"Ok so let's take out the words guilt and the implications of burdening an overstretched NHS. Does the body positive movement, encourage those who are overweight to remain so?Or does it actually help those who are overweight to feel body positive and help them make better lifestyle choices? " There's a mix, if I'm being brutally honest. I have some acquaintances who use the body positive mantra that 'fat people can be healthy' but then lead very unhealthy lifestyles. Like, yes that fat person on instagram is doing yoga, but you as an individual do not. On the other hand, if those people were shamed it wouldn't make them lose weight either. If anything, it would make them comfort eat more. | |||
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"Ok so let's take out the words guilt and the implications of burdening an overstretched NHS. Does the body positive movement, encourage those who are overweight to remain so?Or does it actually help those who are overweight to feel body positive and help them make better lifestyle choices? " Like most Movements there are two sides to it. One side is about making you feel comfortable and confident and allowing you feel good with whatever choices you make. While the other is about actually embracing it. The body positive guru on the show the OP referred to is the latter, she was not supportive of those that wanted to lose weight for whatever reasons they had. It is similar to feminism. You have those that want equal rights. And then you have those that want the tables flipped and have men suffering instead. The extremists. Just using as an example. Don't want to turn it in to a whole other off topic. | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? " I surpose glamorising being slim causing eating disorders doesn't cost the NHS a penny... | |||
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"Ok so let's take out the words guilt and the implications of burdening an overstretched NHS. Does the body positive movement, encourage those who are overweight to remain so?Or does it actually help those who are overweight to feel body positive and help them make better lifestyle choices? There's a mix, if I'm being brutally honest. I have some acquaintances who use the body positive mantra that 'fat people can be healthy' but then lead very unhealthy lifestyles. Like, yes that fat person on instagram is doing yoga, but you as an individual do not. On the other hand, if those people were shamed it wouldn't make them lose weight either. If anything, it would make them comfort eat more." I agree with you there, I see obesity as an increasing issue in our society. I don't think it's a one size fits all approach. I for one make better lifestyle choices when I'm in a good mental place. Telling me I'm fat and a burden will probably make me go and eat rubbish food. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. I think OP just meant saying something unhealthy is ok Vs actually promoting it to society as a benefit or advantage.... ....some topics seem to be off limits here, with offence being taken and not given. As an observer it makes me a bit sad to see. They'd get less kickback if they'd posted about doing some crime or something despicable.... I don’t think anyone has taken offence really, just giving their own opinions, let’s face it on Fab we like to make everyone feel inclusive, these body type threads always disintegrate at some point anyway, we should be used to that by now
Include the OP then and ask them polite well thought out questions, and be friendly without shaming or excluding, encourage debate innit...?
The OP only posted because of a programme they were watching, they have said they aren’t pointing the stick at anyone
My point was that the stick quite quickly got pointed at the OP for daring to raise the subject..... ...they should be able to have a healthy debate without being jumped on imho... ...but who am I...
A cold man with large nipples."LARGE? I was told earlier today they're too small.... ...fucking nipple shamers.... | |||
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"Ok so let's take out the words guilt and the implications of burdening an overstretched NHS. Does the body positive movement, encourage those who are overweight to remain so?Or does it actually help those who are overweight to feel body positive and help them make better lifestyle choices? Like most Movements there are two sides to it. One side is about making you feel comfortable and confident and allowing you feel good with whatever choices you make. While the other is about actually embracing it. The body positive guru on the show the OP referred to is the latter, she was not supportive of those that wanted to lose weight for whatever reasons they had. It is similar to feminism. You have those that want equal rights. And then you have those that want the tables flipped and have men suffering instead. The extremists. Just using as an example. Don't want to turn it in to a whole other off topic. " Yes that's the thing there's militants in all movements and their voices shouldn't drown out the moderates | |||
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"Ok so let's take out the words guilt and the implications of burdening an overstretched NHS. Does the body positive movement, encourage those who are overweight to remain so?Or does it actually help those who are overweight to feel body positive and help them make better lifestyle choices? Like most Movements there are two sides to it. One side is about making you feel comfortable and confident and allowing you feel good with whatever choices you make. While the other is about actually embracing it. The body positive guru on the show the OP referred to is the latter, she was not supportive of those that wanted to lose weight for whatever reasons they had. It is similar to feminism. You have those that want equal rights. And then you have those that want the tables flipped and have men suffering instead. The extremists. Just using as an example. Don't want to turn it in to a whole other off topic. Yes that's the thing there's militants in all movements and their voices shouldn't drown out the moderates " This, at last | |||
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No for reals I feel sick lol | |||
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"Being body positive is mostly about helping people stop mentally (and sometimes physically) beating themselves up due to their feelings about their body. There's no opinion one way or the other on weight loss. When you've been told every day of your life that you're unworthy, stupid, a waste of oxygen... Most people find it takes a toll. Just being told it is ok to be you, that fat or not we all have value, talents, a right to exist... Can do wonders. " Yes sometimes it's the voice in our own heads that are the most cruel. Everybody's body is beautiful, those who say such horrible things are projecting their own fears don't listen to them | |||
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" I agree with you there, I see obesity as an increasing issue in our society. I don't think it's a one size fits all approach. I for one make better lifestyle choices when I'm in a good mental place. Telling me I'm fat and a burden will probably make me go and eat rubbish food. " Absolutely. When I'm depressed, I eat as a form of coping. Shaming would make it worse. At the moment I'm in a really good place and my diet/exercise reflects that as I have the energy to make better choices and cook healthy food. You've got to give people a reason to want to make good choices, and telling them they're an obese lump doesn't do that. | |||
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"As a fat bird, I don't think being fat is glamorised, I think it's become more accepted but definitely not encouraged. I'm also not feeling shamed/victimised by the OP. " | |||
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" I agree with you there, I see obesity as an increasing issue in our society. I don't think it's a one size fits all approach. I for one make better lifestyle choices when I'm in a good mental place. Telling me I'm fat and a burden will probably make me go and eat rubbish food. Absolutely. When I'm depressed, I eat as a form of coping. Shaming would make it worse. At the moment I'm in a really good place and my diet/exercise reflects that as I have the energy to make better choices and cook healthy food. You've got to give people a reason to want to make good choices, and telling them they're an obese lump doesn't do that." Glad you're in a good place, always makes those choices easier to make | |||
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"As a fat bird, I don't think being fat is glamorised, I think it's become more accepted but definitely not encouraged. I'm also not feeling shamed/victimised by the OP. "I'm feeling victimised by you though!  | |||
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"Being body positive is mostly about helping people stop mentally (and sometimes physically) beating themselves up due to their feelings about their body. There's no opinion one way or the other on weight loss. When you've been told every day of your life that you're unworthy, stupid, a waste of oxygen... Most people find it takes a toll. Just being told it is ok to be you, that fat or not we all have value, talents, a right to exist... Can do wonders. " | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? " I need to come back to this. | |||
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"As a fat bird, I don't think being fat is glamorised, I think it's become more accepted but definitely not encouraged. I'm also not feeling shamed/victimised by the OP.
I'm feeling victimised by you though! "Everyone is! Join the queue, I'll be with you shortly.... | |||
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"As a fat bird, I don't think being fat is glamorised, I think it's become more accepted but definitely not encouraged. I'm also not feeling shamed/victimised by the OP.
I'm feeling victimised by you though!
Everyone is! Join the queue, I'll be with you shortly.... "OK  | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality." "increased risk of mortality"? What, more prone to dying?? Stupid phrase, seeing as we all end up dead in the end anyway.... | |||
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"I don’t go to my Dr’s because i could walk in with a cold and they would blame it on my being overweight. Thankfully, for a fat bird, i rarely need to go see one, but when i do, regardless of what it’s about, weight is ALWAYS brought into the conversation. " I rely on prescriptions to quite literally stay alive. I can't avoid my doctor. It has exactly nothing to do with my weight. It's so, so much easier at a muscular size 14 than it was at a size 24. My opinion means something now, and they actually seem to give a shit when I'm in pain. | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? " Being overweight OR obese accounts for just over half the adults in the UK. We have become accustomed to seeing larger bodies everywhere. This possibly has the effect of normalising obesity. I've been borderline overweight/obese since being perimenopausal. But since my dress size 14 is under the national average, I don't "look" my weight to others. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. " in what way... I'm classed as obese but yet have been found to be in very good health. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. in what way... I'm classed as obese but yet have been found to be in very good health. " Fair enough. But there are also lots of people smoking 80 a day and living long active lives. They don't make it a good idea tho. | |||
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"I don’t go to my Dr’s because i could walk in with a cold and they would blame it on my being overweight. Thankfully, for a fat bird, i rarely need to go see one, but when i do, regardless of what it’s about, weight is ALWAYS brought into the conversation. " Sadly I had a friend who went to the doc multiple times with abdominal pain, and was simply sent away without any attempt to diagnose other than "lose weight and you'll be fine". The cancer took a year to kill her. | |||
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"That's not what I'm asking about though. You can't ask one thing but ignore other facts placed in front of you. She clearly makes a point that does reference what you asked. In part yes it is slowly becoming glamourised however it is not as simple as that. Far from it. There are many reasons for obesity or being "fat" or "larger" or whatever people like to call it. It is not always about choice, for some yes they will be obese because they chose to be through eating etc. Some may have other medical conditions that make it more difficult to exercise or whatever. Some medications can cause weight gain. Obesity should not be glamourised, but shaming obesity should also not happen either. People should be made aware and act upon it themselves based on the support and opportunities they have. " People may feel ashamed as opposed to obesity being shamed. The goal of the NHS is to inform and treat If the patient accepts. Patients with a bmi of 30+ can choose slimming World or weight watchers (10 free classes), as it's accepted most people need the support to tackle weight issues. | |||
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"Besides people with a fat or feeding fetish (whole different subject), I don’t think anyone is aiming to be fat because it’s so glamorous. I do not think it’s harmful for someone who is fat, to feel good about their body. Some word argue that feeling good about yourself may mean you want to take better care of yourself, and in the long run lead to better health. I’m obese, and on the whole I love my body. I am not going to apologise for that. Nor do I think society will crumble because I love my big fat ass." We should all have that attitude whatever size we are. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then." What a pun  | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. What a pun "Thank you | |||
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"I'll just point out that contrary to popular belief, most fast people don't cost the earth. I've been fat all my life. I've never so much as needed a hospital appointment in my 46 years. I'm not on any medication, nor do I require any. I've had perhaps six prescriptions in my life for antibiotics, two for a venomous spider bite. I've not even had any significant dental treatment though I am in the queue for my first extraction. I do not have diabetes, high blood pressure, dodgy heart or anything else you've been conditioned to believe I must burden the NHS with. And further more, in my 24 years as a body positive activist.... Neither do most fat people that I've met. " I've seen a post mortem and other cadavers being prepared. On one end of the scale a small lady in her 90s whose body had just given up. There were signs of infection, thrombus in the aorta, some necrotic liver tissue and gall stones. The morbidly obese gentleman in his 50s had much adipose tissue, but the visceral fat around the kidneys was shocking. The fat was the circumference of dinner plates. | |||
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"How do you define glamorized? Yes I see some examples in the media of larger women, but the slimmer, celebrities far out weigh then. And in terms of fashion models they go past the healthy mark in to the other end of the "unhealthy" body size/shape spectrum. Yes Lots of models - and professional athletes - do not have periods because of their low body fat. And this means they end up with brittle bones and arthritis in older age. Also I bet you didn’t know that for older women, research has shown that being overweight (not obese) is associated with longer life span than being Normal or low BMI" Everyone has a unique way of piling on fat. Once their individual quota of adipose tissue is filled, they put on visceral fat around the organs. When that quota is filled, organs become fatty (again a different type of fat to visceral and adipose... But cannot recall the terminology). BTW are you saying osteoporosis is caused by lack of fat? There are genetic and gender predisposition. | |||
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"I think your correct OP. Especially Tess Holiday, I don’t think its right that people are trying to get across that she is healthy. She isn’t, she’s morbidly obese." Is she glamorizing obesity though? She openly talks about the people who troll her and body shame her. These things aren't glamorous in my opinion. Think it's a very difficult topic in all honesty | |||
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"I think your correct OP. Especially Tess Holiday, I don’t think its right that people are trying to get across that she is healthy. She isn’t, she’s morbidly obese." My problem with Tess is that she photoshops her image. So she’s actually just portraying another unrealistic shape. Also she reportedly squandered money that was intended for charity. | |||
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"I think your correct OP. Especially Tess Holiday, I don’t think its right that people are trying to get across that she is healthy. She isn’t, she’s morbidly obese. My problem with Tess is that she photoshops her image. So she’s actually just portraying another unrealistic shape. Also she reportedly squandered money that was intended for charity." Do you think people hold her up as an image of someone who is healthy though? | |||
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"That's not what I'm asking about though. You can't ask one thing but ignore other facts placed in front of you. She clearly makes a point that does reference what you asked. In part yes it is slowly becoming glamourised however it is not as simple as that. Far from it. There are many reasons for obesity or being "fat" or "larger" or whatever people like to call it. It is not always about choice, for some yes they will be obese because they chose to be through eating etc. Some may have other medical conditions that make it more difficult to exercise or whatever. Some medications can cause weight gain. Obesity should not be glamourised, but shaming obesity should also not happen either. People should be made aware and act upon it themselves based on the support and opportunities they have. I'm not ignoring other facts, just a conversation about obesity rather than other than things that cost the NHS etc. Just interested in opinions while watching a TV show. I'm also most definitely not picking on obesity or anything else. But you reference the NHS yourself as part of the reason or factor in it aiding to glamourise obesity. Other unhealthy things as was stated cost the NHS but is always used as a negative towards obesity, never about smoking or drinking or drugs. "don't do these things because they cost the NHS" is rarely said but "don't be far because you cost the nhs". It is a part of the discussion, therfore so are other lifestyle choices that cost the NHS." It's cheaper for the NHS to give treatment for cessation than it is to treat the effects of smoking. So if you need help, you can get it. | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". Let me tell you about fat shaming. Every day someone thinks it's their duty to shout an insult at me in the street. Every day someone thinks it's fine to offer me unsolicited "medical" advice or to diagnose me from my appearance. Strangers I've never met warning their kids not to grow up "like that man"... Assumptions about my diet and health even from people who I work with. Assumptions that I'm "stupid", "lazy", and the old chestnut about being a strain on the NHS. But there's more! When I go to the doctor with some ailment, I'm always told I'd feel better if I were slimmer. Like that's going to help a venomous bite or tonsillitis. I get it easy, several female friends went with undiagnosed PCOS or endometriosis because docs refused to refer them to specialists... "it'll all get better if you just lose weight". Every. Single. Day. " And nothing you can do about it, it’s not a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act 2010 unlike if you were gay, disabled, religious belief, so it’s fine to poke fun at a fatty, I was even surprised a few years ago to be doing some mandatory online training for my NHS job that used it as a scenario that it was ok to be derogatory to the fat person. | |||
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"I think your correct OP. Especially Tess Holiday, I don’t think its right that people are trying to get across that she is healthy. She isn’t, she’s morbidly obese. My problem with Tess is that she photoshops her image. So she’s actually just portraying another unrealistic shape. Also she reportedly squandered money that was intended for charity. Do you think people hold her up as an image of someone who is healthy though? " She posts about hiking and gym selfies, I’ve read in (nasty) gossip columns that in person she has mobility issues. But that’s hearsay. But misrepresentation in social media is rife and not limited to plus size models like Tess. | |||
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"I don’t go to my Dr’s because i could walk in with a cold and they would blame it on my being overweight. Thankfully, for a fat bird, i rarely need to go see one, but when i do, regardless of what it’s about, weight is ALWAYS brought into the conversation. " This I just don't go. I did have it once with a Dr when I went in with tonsillitis, he suggested weight loss and I sarcastically replied well I'll just continue with the tonsillitis then as I'm sure that will help the weight loss, I then got admitted for Quincy - the one and only time other than childbirth that I've needed hospital treatment. Weirdly I do suffer from quite severe PCOS which does put me in a difficult position as losing weight would help the PCOS but the PCOS means that the only way I can have weight loss is by being on a keto diet simple calorie deficit doesn't work for me. I have started making changes I do rebounding 3 times a week and I only cook from scratch etc using no oil, removing all fat. Yes I indulge when I go out but at other times I don't but I have lost absolutely zero weight so far despite me being in a calorie deficit. Further to this those suggesting slimming world. As someone who has been on slimming world before I have learnt that it actually creates a bad relationship with food. Avocado being something crazy like a day's worth of subs but you can stuff yourself silly with processed crap such as mug shots and muller lights. Anyway that's my 2 pennies worth! Belle | |||
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"No we are not in danger of glamourising it. Until people recognise it is a psychological issue and not just a greedy/lazy issue, the people who need help to manage their weight just won’t get it. " Oh it's far beyond that. A multifactorial issue that involves lack of knowledge, environment (eg fast food outlets, cheap/processed foods with low nutritional value), sedentary lifestyles due to less manual work, personal relationship with food, yoyo dieting.......... | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". Let me tell you about fat shaming. Every day someone thinks it's their duty to shout an insult at me in the street. Every day someone thinks it's fine to offer me unsolicited "medical" advice or to diagnose me from my appearance. Strangers I've never met warning their kids not to grow up "like that man"... Assumptions about my diet and health even from people who I work with. Assumptions that I'm "stupid", "lazy", and the old chestnut about being a strain on the NHS. But there's more! When I go to the doctor with some ailment, I'm always told I'd feel better if I were slimmer. Like that's going to help a venomous bite or tonsillitis. I get it easy, several female friends went with undiagnosed PCOS or endometriosis because docs refused to refer them to specialists... "it'll all get better if you just lose weight". Every. Single. Day. And nothing you can do about it, it’s not a protected characteristic under the Equalities Act 2010 unlike if you were gay, disabled, religious belief, so it’s fine to poke fun at a fatty, I was even surprised a few years ago to be doing some mandatory online training for my NHS job that used it as a scenario that it was ok to be derogatory to the fat person." Just because it’s lawful, doesn’t mean it’s right. It’s really okay to be unkind to someone? And to what ends? | |||
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"I think your correct OP. Especially Tess Holiday, I don’t think its right that people are trying to get across that she is healthy. She isn’t, she’s morbidly obese. My problem with Tess is that she photoshops her image. So she’s actually just portraying another unrealistic shape. Also she reportedly squandered money that was intended for charity. Do you think people hold her up as an image of someone who is healthy though? She posts about hiking and gym selfies, I’ve read in (nasty) gossip columns that in person she has mobility issues. But that’s hearsay. But misrepresentation in social media is rife and not limited to plus size models like Tess." I agree with you, these Instagram celebrities aren't real regardless of what size or shape they are. | |||
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"I don’t go to my Dr’s because i could walk in with a cold and they would blame it on my being overweight. Thankfully, for a fat bird, i rarely need to go see one, but when i do, regardless of what it’s about, weight is ALWAYS brought into the conversation. This I just don't go. I did have it once with a Dr when I went in with tonsillitis, he suggested weight loss and I sarcastically replied well I'll just continue with the tonsillitis then as I'm sure that will help the weight loss, I then got admitted for Quincy - the one and only time other than childbirth that I've needed hospital treatment. Weirdly I do suffer from quite severe PCOS which does put me in a difficult position as losing weight would help the PCOS but the PCOS means that the only way I can have weight loss is by being on a keto diet simple calorie deficit doesn't work for me. I have started making changes I do rebounding 3 times a week and I only cook from scratch etc using no oil, removing all fat. Yes I indulge when I go out but at other times I don't but I have lost absolutely zero weight so far despite me being in a calorie deficit. Further to this those suggesting slimming world. As someone who has been on slimming world before I have learnt that it actually creates a bad relationship with food. Avocado being something crazy like a day's worth of subs but you can stuff yourself silly with processed crap such as mug shots and muller lights. Anyway that's my 2 pennies worth! Belle " Sliming world doesn’t always work for everyone, it’s rubbish for me I do much better on low carb high fat | |||
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"What about alcohol Drugs Tobacco What about thin people who eat poorly and don’t exercise? What about promiscuity? What about all the unhealthy habits people can have that you can necessarily see when you look at them? It’s been established for a long time that negative reinforcement is a poor method of behaviour modification. Aka Shaming people for their body habitus doesn’t address the problem. I don’t think the answer to the NHS problem is to make fat people feel bad about themselves." All of those habits are generally shunned in society. Obesity is not something to be glamorised, it’s a serious health issue which leads to as many issues as smoking and heavy drinking. I am guessing that the op is relating the post to the showing of overweight models etc to normalise the issue; opposed to showing healthy attitudes to eating and exercise. My post is in no way to be taken as an attack on those in which are overweight. My personal belief is to live and let live; although I’m a believer of life imitating art, and being made to accept an issue in which you can change, isn’t imo, very helpful further down the line, when serious and expensive complications arise from it. | |||
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"I am currently 81.5kg. I'mmale 5' 11''. According to the NHS BMI app I'm overweight (granted I'm just in the overweight category by a few kg). If the NHS had their way we'd all be stick insects. Controversially, I think anyone who is significantly overweight (ie morbidly obese) through self neglect should pay for their healthcare." Absolutely not! | |||
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"Clothes hide a poor diet Let's all stay naked "If we all looked like you | |||
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"What about alcohol Drugs Tobacco What about thin people who eat poorly and don’t exercise? What about promiscuity? What about all the unhealthy habits people can have that you can necessarily see when you look at them? It’s been established for a long time that negative reinforcement is a poor method of behaviour modification. Aka Shaming people for their body habitus doesn’t address the problem. I don’t think the answer to the NHS problem is to make fat people feel bad about themselves. All of those habits are generally shunned in society. Obesity is not something to be glamorised, it’s a serious health issue which leads to as many issues as smoking and heavy drinking. I am guessing that the op is relating the post to the showing of overweight models etc to normalise the issue; opposed to showing healthy attitudes to eating and exercise. My post is in no way to be taken as an attack on those in which are overweight. My personal belief is to live and let live; although I’m a believer of life imitating art, and being made to accept an issue in which you can change, isn’t imo, very helpful further down the line, when serious and expensive complications arise from it. " Respectively, alcohol and drugs (particular cannabis currently) ARE heavily glamourised in society. Ask most people - would you rather be fat or a drinker? | |||
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"What about alcohol Drugs Tobacco What about thin people who eat poorly and don’t exercise? What about promiscuity? What about all the unhealthy habits people can have that you can necessarily see when you look at them? It’s been established for a long time that negative reinforcement is a poor method of behaviour modification. Aka Shaming people for their body habitus doesn’t address the problem. I don’t think the answer to the NHS problem is to make fat people feel bad about themselves. All of those habits are generally shunned in society. Obesity is not something to be glamorised, it’s a serious health issue which leads to as many issues as smoking and heavy drinking. I am guessing that the op is relating the post to the showing of overweight models etc to normalise the issue; opposed to showing healthy attitudes to eating and exercise. My post is in no way to be taken as an attack on those in which are overweight. My personal belief is to live and let live; although I’m a believer of life imitating art, and being made to accept an issue in which you can change, isn’t imo, very helpful further down the line, when serious and expensive complications arise from it. " Excellent point and no offence taken. But don't obese people need people who represent them in the media also? As the thread has explained many of us make better lifestyle choices when we feel good about ourselves. So if we only saw BMI healthy people in the media this could have the opposite effect on us trying to make us loose weight. | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. Shouldn't really use one scientist work as fact, this is how the MMR scandal occurred. Not saying he's incorrect he has a good h score. But as a scientist you shouldn't take one source." I'm sure this (academic) doctor has resourced his facts and in his papers cited those resources. | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. Shouldn't really use one scientist work as fact, this is how the MMR scandal occurred. Not saying he's incorrect he has a good h score. But as a scientist you shouldn't take one source. I'm sure this (academic) doctor has resourced his facts and in his papers cited those resources. " So did the MMR doctor, sorry research scientist. Looked him up didn't want to get to technical, he ok but not one of the best to quote | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did?" It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X | |||
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"No we are not in danger of glamourising it. Until people recognise it is a psychological issue and not just a greedy/lazy issue, the people who need help to manage their weight just won’t get it. " Glamorising is not the correct word, but normalising it is more accurate. You just have to look at the extreme part of the body positive movement , like the weight positive guru in the TV show. She refuses to accept anything is wrong with being overweight in any way. She won't accept it is psychological, physical, or any other way that has any negativity to it. She refused to find out her test results. Like most extremists she had full on negativity for anyone who is not overwight, or overweight but wanting to change. Fact is obesity is not normal in the natural world. It has come about through human evolution and modern human lifestyles. Even when linked to psychological issues. Sometimes it is about being lazy though, again linked to psychological issues and willpower. It should be recognised as such, there should be no hateful stigma towards people but it should never be allowed to be treated as normal. That is where things need to be careful, nobody should ever be shamed or made to feel ashamed about their body BUT because of the way the human mind works, once something is accepted in such a way that it becomes the normal then things start to go that way. This applies to everything, not just obesity. This does not apply to other medical conditions or medication that causes weight gain. Itnis a very tricky issue to fully discuss because people get so defensive and aggressive about it. Mention anything negative and you get those that just won't take part, and on the other you get people who are just straight up mean for the sake of being mean with nothing to contribute but hate. | |||
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"What about alcohol Drugs Tobacco What about thin people who eat poorly and don’t exercise? What about promiscuity? What about all the unhealthy habits people can have that you can necessarily see when you look at them? It’s been established for a long time that negative reinforcement is a poor method of behaviour modification. Aka Shaming people for their body habitus doesn’t address the problem. I don’t think the answer to the NHS problem is to make fat people feel bad about themselves. All of those habits are generally shunned in society. Obesity is not something to be glamorised, it’s a serious health issue which leads to as many issues as smoking and heavy drinking. I am guessing that the op is relating the post to the showing of overweight models etc to normalise the issue; opposed to showing healthy attitudes to eating and exercise. My post is in no way to be taken as an attack on those in which are overweight. My personal belief is to live and let live; although I’m a believer of life imitating art, and being made to accept an issue in which you can change, isn’t imo, very helpful further down the line, when serious and expensive complications arise from it. Excellent point and no offence taken. But don't obese people need people who represent them in the media also? As the thread has explained many of us make better lifestyle choices when we feel good about ourselves. So if we only saw BMI healthy people in the media this could have the opposite effect on us trying to make us loose weight. " That is true, it is a lot harder to sell people “things” if you market a healthy, and normal individual though. If we take a look around us, the majority of people are neither overweight nor underweight. I reckon that we should be looking into why we are so easily swayed by media, which is hardly a fair representation of “normality”. | |||
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"I'll just point out that contrary to popular belief, most fast people don't cost the earth. I've been fat all my life. I've never so much as needed a hospital appointment in my 46 years. I'm not on any medication, nor do I require any. I've had perhaps six prescriptions in my life for antibiotics, two for a venomous spider bite. I've not even had any significant dental treatment though I am in the queue for my first extraction. I do not have diabetes, high blood pressure, dodgy heart or anything else you've been conditioned to believe I must burden the NHS with. And further more, in my 24 years as a body positive activist.... Neither do most fat people that I've met. My grandad was always very slight and he had angina, high blood pressure and diabetes. He drank and smoked a lot though. I also have a heart condition though and I am neither overweight or a smoker and I don't drink very often so you can be as healthy as you like and still be screwed!" Case study:man of 49, a runner (regular marathon runner, in a running club), eats well, doesn't smoke, slim. But he is a drinker, a regular heavy drinker - heart disease, prognosis poor. The point is, body shape and size doesn't indicate health. Poor lifestyle choices increase risks of disease. | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X" How would this theoretically work? I have had numerous eating disorders over the years and have gone from one extreme to the other. Although I don't see a Dr about it now, I still have issues with eating and body dysmorphia. Think the money collected wouldn't cover the amount it would cost to assess people | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X" Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly. | |||
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"What about alcohol Drugs Tobacco What about thin people who eat poorly and don’t exercise? What about promiscuity? What about all the unhealthy habits people can have that you can necessarily see when you look at them? It’s been established for a long time that negative reinforcement is a poor method of behaviour modification. Aka Shaming people for their body habitus doesn’t address the problem. I don’t think the answer to the NHS problem is to make fat people feel bad about themselves. All of those habits are generally shunned in society. Obesity is not something to be glamorised, it’s a serious health issue which leads to as many issues as smoking and heavy drinking. I am guessing that the op is relating the post to the showing of overweight models etc to normalise the issue; opposed to showing healthy attitudes to eating and exercise. My post is in no way to be taken as an attack on those in which are overweight. My personal belief is to live and let live; although I’m a believer of life imitating art, and being made to accept an issue in which you can change, isn’t imo, very helpful further down the line, when serious and expensive complications arise from it. Excellent point and no offence taken. But don't obese people need people who represent them in the media also? As the thread has explained many of us make better lifestyle choices when we feel good about ourselves. So if we only saw BMI healthy people in the media this could have the opposite effect on us trying to make us loose weight. That is true, it is a lot harder to sell people “things” if you market a healthy, and normal individual though. If we take a look around us, the majority of people are neither overweight nor underweight. I reckon that we should be looking into why we are so easily swayed by media, which is hardly a fair representation of “normality”. " What are the majority then? (Hint:I've already stated it). | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly." You can after autopsies | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? But, but, but - what about....., and........ Also, don't forget about..... and then there's.........., not to mention........ No matter what you think is wrong about society in general, OP, there will be a recently coined phrase or buzzword to combat it and make you feel guilty about bringing it up in the first place, no matter if your intentions are good or bad. It's usually a word or phrase ending in "....shaming". We can say what we think is wrong with society But what do we want to achieve when we say it Do you want it to get better? Or do you want to make people feel shame and exclusion? Personally I want it to get better, and I think to do that you should avoid shaming. That doesn’t mean you dress up or avoid the truth, but you tell it to people with kindness. Agreed, on this show the gp's answer was eat less and do more exercise to the guy. Don't really think that works imo. " Part of the NHS new plan is to train GP re obesity. They need to learn how to talk to patients and learn evidence-based facts about obesity. It is not simply a calorie deficit (intake v output) for many people. | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly. You can after autopsies "Hmm I think we both know that isn’t 100% accurate. And what a horrible legacy for the bereaved, as if there aren’t enough costs on death. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. " I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. | |||
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"Obesity is based on bmi and is a nhs guide line for height and weight. Now lets take a pro heavy weight body builder/ worlds strongest man weighing in at 23 - 28 stone now medically and to nhs bmi that person is clinically obese Yet this person is fit healthy strong eats very well takes many supplements and vitamins. But yet is classed as obese I think people need to stop worrying about what you should be accord to an average nhs guide line and as long as your healthy excecise eat well and most of all happy then screw what they say..... Myself for instance im 21 stone but i train hard lift heavy i go swimming admittingly probly not as healty as i could be but im happy with my size. But if i went by bmi calculator i should be 13 stone for my height. Id be skin n bones ffs " The bmi is a world-wide recognised indicator of weight categories that has to be used with professional judgement. Muscle mass and bone density, whether lacking thereof or having increased, Have to be taken into consideration. | |||
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"Obesity is based on bmi and is a nhs guide line for height and weight. Now lets take a pro heavy weight body builder/ worlds strongest man weighing in at 23 - 28 stone now medically and to nhs bmi that person is clinically obese Yet this person is fit healthy strong eats very well takes many supplements and vitamins. But yet is classed as obese I think people need to stop worrying about what you should be accord to an average nhs guide line and as long as your healthy excecise eat well and most of all happy then screw what they say..... Myself for instance im 21 stone but i train hard lift heavy i go swimming admittingly probly not as healty as i could be but im happy with my size. But if i went by bmi calculator i should be 13 stone for my height. Id be skin n bones ffs " Absolutely agree, according to my BMI I am obese, yet I go to the gym, eat relatively healthy and in moderation. 14st and 5ft 7 I also have a heart condition, see my cardiologist regularly and each time I mention my weight he tells me to ignore BMI, it's fine as my cholestrol level is normal. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming." What are your thoughts on the reasoning behind the increasing numbers of obese people? We're all adults we can discuss without shaming | |||
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"Obesity is based on bmi and is a nhs guide line for height and weight. Now lets take a pro heavy weight body builder/ worlds strongest man weighing in at 23 - 28 stone now medically and to nhs bmi that person is clinically obese Yet this person is fit healthy strong eats very well takes many supplements and vitamins. But yet is classed as obese I think people need to stop worrying about what you should be accord to an average nhs guide line and as long as your healthy excecise eat well and most of all happy then screw what they say..... Myself for instance im 21 stone but i train hard lift heavy i go swimming admittingly probly not as healty as i could be but im happy with my size. But if i went by bmi calculator i should be 13 stone for my height. Id be skin n bones ffs Absolutely agree, according to my BMI I am obese, yet I go to the gym, eat relatively healthy and in moderation. 14st and 5ft 7 I also have a heart condition, see my cardiologist regularly and each time I mention my weight he tells me to ignore BMI, it's fine as my cholestrol level is normal. " | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did?" I’m sure someone will do quite well out of the pension I won’t get. | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly. You can after autopsies
Hmm I think we both know that isn’t 100% accurate. And what a horrible legacy for the bereaved, as if there aren’t enough costs on death."No not 100% but reasonably accurate. | |||
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"Obesity is based on bmi and is a nhs guide line for height and weight. Now lets take a pro heavy weight body builder/ worlds strongest man weighing in at 23 - 28 stone now medically and to nhs bmi that person is clinically obese Yet this person is fit healthy strong eats very well takes many supplements and vitamins. But yet is classed as obese I think people need to stop worrying about what you should be accord to an average nhs guide line and as long as your healthy excecise eat well and most of all happy then screw what they say..... Myself for instance im 21 stone but i train hard lift heavy i go swimming admittingly probly not as healty as i could be but im happy with my size. But if i went by bmi calculator i should be 13 stone for my height. Id be skin n bones ffs Absolutely agree, according to my BMI I am obese, yet I go to the gym, eat relatively healthy and in moderation. 14st and 5ft 7 I also have a heart condition, see my cardiologist regularly and each time I mention my weight he tells me to ignore BMI, it's fine as my cholestrol level is normal. " Because he's using his professional judgement. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming." I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic... | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic... "Or may make them feel depressed and eat even more. There's a difference between encouraging someone to make better choices and shaming them. | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? " I'm not sure anyone glamorises obesity. Could it be yet ANOTHER thing being used to divide people and have others looking down on parts of the populace? | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic... "Or push them to suicidal depression. Words have consequences regardless if people shouldn't be so sensitive or not. Words can be much more impactful than anyone realises. Especially when used incorrectly. Soemmformsmof obesity are due to medication or other medical conditions. It is not always down to eating less and exercising more. | |||
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"Obesity is based on bmi and is a nhs guide line for height and weight. Now lets take a pro heavy weight body builder/ worlds strongest man weighing in at 23 - 28 stone now medically and to nhs bmi that person is clinically obese Yet this person is fit healthy strong eats very well takes many supplements and vitamins. But yet is classed as obese I think people need to stop worrying about what you should be accord to an average nhs guide line and as long as your healthy excecise eat well and most of all happy then screw what they say..... Myself for instance im 21 stone but i train hard lift heavy i go swimming admittingly probly not as healty as i could be but im happy with my size. But if i went by bmi calculator i should be 13 stone for my height. Id be skin n bones ffs Absolutely agree, according to my BMI I am obese, yet I go to the gym, eat relatively healthy and in moderation. 14st and 5ft 7 I also have a heart condition, see my cardiologist regularly and each time I mention my weight he tells me to ignore BMI, it's fine as my cholestrol level is normal. Because he's using his professional judgement. " Absolutely and I trust him | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly." Agreed! So perhaps, as I’ve often thought, there should be a levy on high fat foods like pizza’s pastries, chips, high fat processed foods etc - which would be directly used to reduce the cost of healthy choices like fruit and veg etc! This would, I think, make an impact on the way many people eat - and make it easier/cheaper for single mums like myself to give their children a healthy diet! I doubt it’ll ever happen though as any government who considered implementing it would just get accused of being a ‘nanny state’! | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic...
Or may make them feel depressed and eat even more. There's a difference between encouraging someone to make better choices and shaming them. "I think most people already know, and dont need those concerns reaffirmed? Having a weight concern highlighted, is more likely to trigger a knee jerk reaction as opposed to a lifestyle change. Though I'm no health advisor...just from what I've seen friends do,with impulse fasting and silly exercise regimes to get quick fixes. | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly. Agreed! So perhaps, as I’ve often thought, there should be a levy on high fat foods like pizza’s pastries, chips, high fat processed foods etc - which would be directly used to reduce the cost of healthy choices like fruit and veg etc! This would, I think, make an impact on the way many people eat - and make it easier/cheaper for single mums like myself to give their children a healthy diet! I doubt it’ll ever happen though as any government who considered implementing it would just get accused of being a ‘nanny state’! " Think that is a cracking idea, last summer I fancied a peach and it cost more than a bar of chocolate! | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic...
Or push them to suicidal depression. Words have consequences regardless if people shouldn't be so sensitive or not. Words can be much more impactful than anyone realises. Especially when used incorrectly. Soemmformsmof obesity are due to medication or other medical conditions. It is not always down to eating less and exercising more. "I think that's the problem with the modern western world isn't it? It's always someone, or something else's fault. Have some ownership of the food you choose to put into your mouth. And the time you spend sat on your ass. At the end of the day, the victim and villain are both in your mirror. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic... "No. Nobody ever got thin after being made to feel ashamed. All you get when you make fat people ashamed of themselves is ashamed fat people who probably are now more likely to suffer mental health problems. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic... "I think shaming can have the opposite impact, if you make me feel like shit for doing something I do to make myself feel better, I'm going to do that very thing to feel better. | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic...
Or push them to suicidal depression. Words have consequences regardless if people shouldn't be so sensitive or not. Words can be much more impactful than anyone realises. Especially when used incorrectly. Soemmformsmof obesity are due to medication or other medical conditions. It is not always down to eating less and exercising more.
I think that's the problem with the modern western world isn't it? It's always someone, or something else's fault. Have some ownership of the food you choose to put into your mouth. And the time you spend sat on your ass. At the end of the day, the victim and villain are both in your mirror. "I have to disagree, I'm well aware I'm the cause of my overeating. And it's something I'm trying to get to grips with. I have issues that have caused it but it's my battle to win. Currently loosing it but I'll get there as I want to. Having someone call me fat would go against all the hard work I've already put in. Life isn't black and white | |||
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" So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. Not according to Dr. William Johnson of the School of Sport, Exercise and Health Sciences, at Loughborough University. Johnson explains that the term “healthy obesity” is flawed since people who are obese, even those who are “metabolically” healthy, are still at increased risk for a host of health conditions, including type 2 diabetes, chronic kidney disease, and overall increased risk of mortality. There’s weighty - snigger - evidence that this is true. I accept being overweight is bad for my health. So is drinking. So is bare backing. So is spending all my time on social media. People need to make their own informed decisions. I stand by my point that people are more likely to make positive choices if they feel worthy and happy, rather than shamed. We don’t make smokers pay for their chemotherapy. Why would we make the obese pay for their bypass surgery. And where would we draw the line if we did? It would be possible to counter argue that smokers pay so much in government taxes on every purchase of cigarettes/tobacco that they’re effectively ‘pre-paying’ for their treatment! The same could be said for heavy drinkers with duty on alcohol. Although the sugar tax has been introduced its minimal compared to the others - and there’s no additional tax for foods high in saturated fats as yet! That being said - I do believe that the lifestyle we choose to live (with the exception of those with mental health disorders etc) should impact on the amount of national insurance we pay. I’m well aware that this isn’t likely to be a popular opinion, however. X Good point re taxes x It’s very difficult to say whether someone’s illness was a direct result of their lifestyle, outside of smoking, so practically it would be difficult to implement fairly. Agreed! So perhaps, as I’ve often thought, there should be a levy on high fat foods like pizza’s pastries, chips, high fat processed foods etc - which would be directly used to reduce the cost of healthy choices like fruit and veg etc! This would, I think, make an impact on the way many people eat - and make it easier/cheaper for single mums like myself to give their children a healthy diet! I doubt it’ll ever happen though as any government who considered implementing it would just get accused of being a ‘nanny state’! Think that is a cracking idea, last summer I fancied a peach and it cost more than a bar of chocolate!" I think it’s a great idea too - but doubt it’ll happen for the reason specified!  | |||
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"My apologies if anyone has seen this discussion as an attack on obesity, or fat shaming. It certainly isn't that at all. " You're posing a question for debate, so you dont need to apologise. | |||
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"My apologies if anyone has seen this discussion as an attack on obesity, or fat shaming. It certainly isn't that at all. " I haven't as I've followed the thread and I'm obese | |||
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"I'm talking about obesity itself, are we in danger of making it almost glamorous regardless of the health danger's and cost to the NHS itself. I may be wrong (and a difficult discussion to start without being shot down ) but are you suggesting the larger figure is being promoted? I think theres been focus on positive body image, and embracing your figure, but I'm not sure its glamourised? There are many reasons for obesity, but it's clear that it's on the increase and it's becoming a difficult subject address without being accused of shaming. I don't see a problem with shaming. I don't smoke because it's unhealthy, i don't eat to excess because it's unhealthy. When i did smoke and people said "you stink like an ashtray" i felt i should give up, and i did. Maybe a little shaming might just save someone from becoming diabetic...
No. Nobody ever got thin after being made to feel ashamed. All you get when you make fat people ashamed of themselves is ashamed fat people who probably are now more likely to suffer mental health problems.
"Have to agree with this. The World has moved on from the days of Kes and managers/coaches giving hair dryer treatments. I have been that fat kid made to run miles extra in PE, I have been the fat kid that was shamed at his lack of sporting prowess. Because there wasn't that support or understanding and I was treated like something off the bottom of a shoe, I became a self-fulfillng prophecy. It made me least likely to give it my all and there was no incentive for me. It's like if I was in a job where just faults were being pointed out, I wouldn't be happy there and would want out. How the message is delivered and the language used is as important as a message itself. | |||
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"My apologies if anyone has seen this discussion as an attack on obesity, or fat shaming. It certainly isn't that at all. " Don’t apologise OP, you’ve done nothing wrong, it’s just a debate and it’s healthy! Xx | |||
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"I certainly do think there is a link between obesity and poor food choices and poverty. It's easy to eat really well if a family can afford to do so. " This I agree with as well. | |||
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"As a fat bird, I don't think being fat is glamorised, I think it's become more accepted but definitely not encouraged. I'm also not feeling shamed/victimised by the OP. " This .....”acceptable” not glamorised...like everything else in the world ...differences in sexuality is more acceptable, being Bi, gay, transgender etc is more acceptable, gender neutral is more acceptable - the worlds evolving & people are evolving with it... and being a bigot, racist, sexist etc is less acceptable ....evolution.... Good topic op | |||
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"With the ever increasing rate's of obesity in the UK (and the cost to the NHS), are we becoming guilty of glamorising obesity in society? I'm all for loving yourself and being body positive but at what cost? I'm not sure anyone glamorises obesity. Could it be yet ANOTHER thing being used to divide people and have others looking down on parts of the populace? " I reckon that glamorising is the wrong word. Acceptance having no need, nor incentive for change is the issue. We shouldn’t be complicit in allowing individuals to feel that it’s ok to be morbidly obese. It is no different to drinking yourself into an early grave. There is an obvious psychological issue at the heart of such an affliction as there are with all self-destructive behaviours. P.s. I am speaking upon morbid obesity, opposed to those being slight over-weight; which is more about self-responsibility. My father is not morbidly obese, (though still over-weight) yet now has type 2 diabetes due to gluttony, which can be easily retracted. We all need to take responsibility in what and how much we eat, as no one else can. | |||
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"I have a MOT every 6 months, because my blood pressure is slightly high. Apart from weight - I'm in great shape. All my 'levels' are good or very good. So being obese doesn't necessarily mean unhealthy. I am exactly the same, no health issues whatsoever, apart from asthma which runs in the family, the only time I visit the doctor is for my yearly asthma check up." No health issues here either apart from hrt and thyroxine, neither of which are linked to weight. However, I know lots of slim people with bad health who are costing the NHS lots of money. Must be my extra padding keeping me healthy lol. | |||
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"My apologies if anyone has seen this discussion as an attack on obesity, or fat shaming. It certainly isn't that at all. " If it stimulates lots of different replies, debate is healthy. | |||
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"My apologies if anyone has seen this discussion as an attack on obesity, or fat shaming. It certainly isn't that at all. " If it gets people thinking which it has then it's all good | |||
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