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Boris is starting the brexit talks.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand

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By *estivalMan  over a year ago

borehamwood

think boris will let the end of june come and go.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"think boris will let the end of june come and go."
I think so as well.

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By *dsindyTV/TS  over a year ago

East Lancashire

Bojo doesn't care....got his Brexit supporting majority so will do what he wants/as he is told (delete as appropriate based on your belief).

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

They wanted no deal all along. They know they cannot get a deal anything like they promised, the messaged changed from 'easiest deal in history' to 'WTO here we go' or whatever it was.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"think boris will let the end of june come and go."

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool

I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems."

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters "

True

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By *az080378Woman  over a year ago

Cromer


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters "

And Jeremy Corbyn, everything is always his fault too.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters

And Jeremy Corbyn, everything is always his fault too."

Why will they blame remainers and blame them for what??

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters

And Jeremy Corbyn, everything is always his fault too."

Don't think about what's actually going on, don't ask any questions. Spend all your time imagining what it would be like if someone became PM.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters

And Jeremy Corbyn, everything is always his fault too.Why will they blame remainers and blame them for what??"

For how shit brexit is.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand "
I think an extension could have been possible if it was not attached to a financial payment, but I think if a 2 year extension was agreed the EU would want 2 yrs more subs and I think that is the deal breaker on that one.

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By *estivalMan  over a year ago

borehamwood


"think boris will let the end of june come and go.

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted "

to be honest the financial an social shitstorm coming from this virus and the loss of jobs from it is gona make brexit look like a storm in a tea cup

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"think boris will let the end of june come and go.

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted

to be honest the financial an social shitstorm coming from this virus and the loss of jobs from it is gona make brexit look like a storm in a tea cup"

It’s not going to help though,

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"think boris will let the end of june come and go.

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted

to be honest the financial an social shitstorm coming from this virus and the loss of jobs from it is gona make brexit look like a storm in a tea cup"

Other countries only have to deal with the damage caused by the virus. We have to deal with the double whammy of Brexit and the virus.

Although it does look like the damage caused by the virus will be worse than the damage caused by brexit. So that's a win for people who voted for it maybe?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"think boris will let the end of june come and go.

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted

to be honest the financial an social shitstorm coming from this virus and the loss of jobs from it is gona make brexit look like a storm in a tea cup"

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By *estivalMan  over a year ago

borehamwood

dunno you will have to ask someone who voted for brexit if its a win.i just saying it how i see it and as i dont support either the left or right and i didnt vite remain or leave mine is just an outsiders view. without any baggage

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"dunno you will have to ask someone who voted for brexit if its a win.i just saying it how i see it and as i dont support either the left or right and i didnt vite remain or leave mine is just an outsiders view. without any baggage "

I remember you saying.

And I mostly agreed with your post.

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By *mmabluTV/TS  over a year ago

upton wirral


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand "
Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

"

Thanks Emma from the news down in opposite land.

Meanwhile back on planet earth....

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

"

Your joking? It’s the worse time possible. The likes of the USA will be rubbing their hands, imagine Boris trying to get a good deal out if them

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant."

Like what?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

For a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant."

That's our current situation.

Before, we were actually in EU and had sweet trade deal and a seat at the decision making table.

Now we have fuck all.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"For a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition."

Is this worth the £170 billion annual hit to the economy?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"For a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition."

Is that it?

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant."

Yep and that has gone absolutely swimmingly in the current crises.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

how many billions will it cost to stay for 2 years any idea?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"how many billions will it cost to stay for 2 years any idea?"

No idea, less than £170 billion ??

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool

That has got to be one of the biggest myths about the eu.

The idea that the 25 countries routinely "told"us what to do.

Absolute bullocks..1st of all we were a major player and we had the power of veto.We never had the euro and as far as I can see..were never made do anything that significantly disadvantaged us.

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool

I'd still love to hear a cast iron benefit for leaving.

Its been 3 years and I've still not heard 1.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

"

The Nissan/Sunderland thing doesn't have much to do with brexit.

It effectively comes down to keeping the Sunderland plant open as what they make is popular in our internal market.

Eg, the company will downscale production as announced and keep it strictly for internal market production.

To clarify less car exports.

The Barcelona plant has been negotiated to have a take over by another one of the car manufacturers their close with, basically to keep the plant but change the car production to something more saleable.

So as you can see this isn't a brexit win.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"That has got to be one of the biggest myths about the eu.

The idea that the 25 countries routinely "told"us what to do.

Absolute bullocks..1st of all we were a major player and we had the power of veto.We never had the euro and as far as I can see..were never made do anything that significantly disadvantaged us."

Exactly, and reference to state aid , we are the one of the lowest in the EU at spending only 0.38% of GDP when compared to 1.31% in Germany and 1.59 % in Poland

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'd still love to hear a cast iron benefit for leaving.

Its been 3 years and I've still not heard 1."

Blue passports

FREEDOM

Sovereignty

Unelected bureaucrats

Straight bananas

Blah blah blah

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"For a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition."

I mean why don't you get on at the Tories about state aid rules.

They prioritise their business partners for contracts rather than actually put the contracts up for competition.

Remember Failing Grayling.

Look at the NHS contact tracing app.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'd still love to hear a cast iron benefit for leaving.

Its been 3 years and I've still not heard 1.

Blue passports

FREEDOM

Sovereignty

Unelected bureaucrats

Straight bananas

Blah blah blah "

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I'd still love to hear a cast iron benefit for leaving.

Its been 3 years and I've still not heard 1."

1. Benefits for US corporations who will do well out of trade negotiations with a weakened UK who are removing safety standards, to allow US food and other products to be sold here. Plus US pharmaceutical companies who are buying into th NHS.

2. Benefits to tax dodgers who will continue to avoid paying taxes.

3. Investment businesses like those owned by Jacob Rees-Mogg, made a shit tonne of money by crashing the value of the pound.

4. Unscrupulous business owners like Tim Martin and Mike Ashley will be able to treat the environment and their works with even more contempt after the pesky EU red tape of workers rights and environmental protection are removed.

There's four cast iron reasons right there.

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"For a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition.

I mean why don't you get on at the Tories about state aid rules.

They prioritise their business partners for contracts rather than actually put the contracts up for competition.

Remember Failing Grayling.

Look at the NHS contact tracing app."

They have given contracts to firms they are connected too during this crises with no one allowed to bid,and no one has batted an eye.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?"

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? "

That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?"

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Nobody knows for sure how much better off or worse off we may be, all the figures being bandied about are projections and estimations and nothing more at this point.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Nobody knows for sure how much better off or worse off we may be, all the figures being bandied about are projections and estimations and nothing more at this point. "

Are you suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for? I thought it was the easiest deal in history etc etc

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? "

I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming. "

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?"

We're currently down an estimated £170 billion a year. So presumably if a no deal crashes us into WTO rules, the cost will be more than £170,000,000,000 annually.

But like people said, no one actually knows how bad it will be.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Nobody knows for sure how much better off or worse off we may be, all the figures being bandied about are projections and estimations and nothing more at this point. "

So if it costs the UK less than the estimated £170 Billion per year. Is that a brexit benefit?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before "

I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years"

90% of the UKs trade will be outside the EU?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

90% of the UKs trade will be outside the EU? "

UK exports are falling year on year, to the eu exports fell 10% between 1999 and 2017.Sorry meant to say 90% of global growth will be outside the eu in the next ten years and thats where the future is.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years"

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks."

Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

90% of the UKs trade will be outside the EU? UK exports are falling year on year, to the eu exports fell 10% between 1999 and 2017.Sorry meant to say 90% of global growth will be outside the eu in the next ten years and thats where the future is."

So it’s 90% of growth now? The EU is the largest trading bloc in the world and our nearest neighbours, do you agree?? Which other countries do you think we can start trading with? And will our deal be better than the ones they have or get with the EU?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu. "

How much faster? Bare in mind if we leave with a no deal we will have no deals

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

How much faster? Bare in mind if we leave with a no deal we will have no deals "

Please name th last trade dealer the EU made that we (2nd biggest economy in the eu ) was at the table.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Nobody knows for sure how much better off or worse off we may be, all the figures being bandied about are projections and estimations and nothing more at this point.

So if it costs the UK less than the estimated £170 Billion per year. Is that a brexit benefit?"

i am not sure there is a benefit and have never said there would be, just that the figures are all guesses but the way people throw them around they are made out to be definitive, you can draw your own conclusions as regards if it's a "brexit benefit" or not.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

How much faster? Bare in mind if we leave with a no deal we will have no deals Please name th last trade dealer the EU made that we (2nd biggest economy in the eu ) was at the table. "

What is your point?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu. "

A quick deal means a bad deal

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *coptoCouple  over a year ago

Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth

"... the shackles will be off to do other deals"

The shackles have been off since 31 January 2020, or didn’t you get the memo? Far from “all our friends” falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals with us, all we’ve managed is one-off agreements with big players like Kosovo, Morocco, the Faroe Islands and the Palestinian Authority.

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


""... the shackles will be off to do other deals"

The shackles have been off since 31 January 2020, or didn’t you get the memo? Far from “all our friends” falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals with us, all we’ve managed is one-off agreements with big players like Kosovo, Morocco, the Faroe Islands and the Palestinian Authority."

Result

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By *or Fox SakeCouple  over a year ago

Thornaby


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

"

Most of the world already has trade deals.

We have very little if anything to offer other countries.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


""... the shackles will be off to do other deals"

The shackles have been off since 31 January 2020, or didn’t you get the memo? Far from “all our friends” falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals with us, all we’ve managed is one-off agreements with big players like Kosovo, Morocco, the Faroe Islands and the Palestinian Authority."

Not true try https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


""... the shackles will be off to do other deals"

The shackles have been off since 31 January 2020, or didn’t you get the memo? Far from “all our friends” falling over themselves to negotiate trade deals with us, all we’ve managed is one-off agreements with big players like Kosovo, Morocco, the Faroe Islands and the Palestinian Authority.Not true try https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-trade-agreements-with-non-eu-countries-in-a-no-deal-brexit"

Have we left with no deal??

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal "

Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it."

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? "

Nope but bet you it wont take 20 years.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? "

They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?"

So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?"

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it."

Argentina is a member of this block. Don't forget about the Falklands. You may be very surprised how long the negotiations will last

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? "

Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries .

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . "

Are we going to get a great deal or a no deal? You seem to be contradicting yourself?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . "

There will be trade yes but with tariffs set in place, there will still be a loss but less than 50% of the total trade.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . There will be trade yes but with tariffs set in place, there will still be a loss but less than 50% of the total trade."

Not a lot of point quoting those figures then.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . There will be trade yes but with tariffs set in place, there will still be a loss but less than 50% of the total trade.Not a lot of point quoting those figures then. "

Yes it is as to show what the uk currently have with the eu and that eu is uks biggest trading partner.

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By *ondoctorMan  over a year ago

birmingham

If we dont trade with eu,wont we be looking elsewhere to do business (eu stopped us doing that)which could result in more trade probably,and i seem to remember people losing confidence in the eu when migrants as far a syria where going to be allowed into the country which on past experiences cause ghettos and then the riots etc etc,lets see what happens before we all start arguing lol

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . There will be trade yes but with tariffs set in place, there will still be a loss but less than 50% of the total trade.Not a lot of point quoting those figures then. Yes it is as to show what the uk currently have with the eu and that eu is uks biggest trading partner."

All it shows to me is that we import far more from the eu than export i would prefer trading partners where its the other way round.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"If we dont trade with eu,wont we be looking elsewhere to do business (eu stopped us doing that)which could result in more trade probably,and i seem to remember people losing confidence in the eu when migrants as far a syria where going to be allowed into the country which on past experiences cause ghettos and then the riots etc etc,lets see what happens before we all start arguing lol"

What ??

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By *mmabluTV/TS  over a year ago

upton wirral


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant. "

I have already asked but here we go again , like what?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant.

I have already asked but here we go again , like what? "

I have already answered that.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant.

I have already asked but here we go again , like what? I have already answered that. "

You tried, but we already proved you were wrong. . What other ‘shit’ can we sort out when we leave the EU

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant.

I have already asked but here we go again , like what? "

Be waiting a long time for that answer

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant.

I have already asked but here we go again , like what?

Be waiting a long time for that answer"

Apparently it has already been answered

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong? "

40 years of utter tripe about the EU in newspapers and from Boris has had the desired effect on you I see.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

40 years of utter tripe about the EU in newspapers and from Boris has had the desired effect on you I see."

yeah im happy he has managed to do what the people voted for thats what prime ministers are for.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong? "

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

40 years of utter tripe about the EU in newspapers and from Boris has had the desired effect on you I see.yeah im happy he has managed to do what the people voted for thats what prime ministers are for. "

What has he done?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

40 years of utter tripe about the EU in newspapers and from Boris has had the desired effect on you I see.yeah im happy he has managed to do what the people voted for thats what prime ministers are for.

What has he done? "

taken us out of the eu blimey mate where you been .

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

40 years of utter tripe about the EU in newspapers and from Boris has had the desired effect on you I see.yeah im happy he has managed to do what the people voted for thats what prime ministers are for.

What has he done? taken us out of the eu blimey mate where you been . "

Ah yeah, did he get a good deal??

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong? "

Do you mean the same way the gmnt gives contracts to companies where no one else can apply?

That type of fair competition?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender? "

The point is we can look after the companies we have now.flybe might have benefited if we had been out but i see Germany have now changed the rules as lufthansa are in the crap.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender? The point is we can look after the companies we have now.flybe might have benefited if we had been out but i see Germany have now changed the rules as lufthansa are in the crap. "

How did Germany manage to change the rules? They are in the EU?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender? The point is we can look after the companies we have now.flybe might have benefited if we had been out but i see Germany have now changed the rules as lufthansa are in the crap.

How did Germany manage to change the rules? They are in the EU? "

read up on it mate state aid for airlines,you really dont keep up with news do you.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender? The point is we can look after the companies we have now.flybe might have benefited if we had been out but i see Germany have now changed the rules as lufthansa are in the crap.

How did Germany manage to change the rules? They are in the EU? read up on it mate state aid for airlines,you really dont keep up with news do you."

Your making no sense at all, did the EU stop the government from bailing out FlyBe ?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender? The point is we can look after the companies we have now.flybe might have benefited if we had been out but i see Germany have now changed the rules as lufthansa are in the crap.

How did Germany manage to change the rules? They are in the EU? read up on it mate state aid for airlines,you really dont keep up with news do you.

Your making no sense at all, did the EU stop the government from bailing out FlyBe ? "

Indirectly yes The European commission said it was ready to discuss the bailout and warned that any state aid should not distort competition.BA and ryanair would have taken them to court over unfair competition and the eu would have upheld it so the government had no chance to help them.

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool

Maybe I'm being a bit thick here but isnt that the whole point of a common market?surely we signed upto this?

What's the point of being in a market where you prioritize your own company's?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Maybe I'm being a bit thick here but isnt that the whole point of a common market?surely we signed upto this?

What's the point of being in a market where you prioritize your own company's?"

Now we have signed out of it. There is not one country in the eu where the uk has a trade surplus not one,now i would prefer to up our trade with countries that dont want to take the piss and trade on more equal terms like canada,usa,singapore,Switzerland,s korea,hong kong etc who we have a trade surplus with.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

its been fun but must go now.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

Can you name a few British companies that have missed out on these government contracts ? Why did the government choose EU companies instead of British ones ? Do all government contracts have to go out to tender? The point is we can look after the companies we have now.flybe might have benefited if we had been out but i see Germany have now changed the rules as lufthansa are in the crap.

How did Germany manage to change the rules? They are in the EU? read up on it mate state aid for airlines,you really dont keep up with news do you.

Your making no sense at all, did the EU stop the government from bailing out FlyBe ? Indirectly yes The European commission said it was ready to discuss the bailout and warned that any state aid should not distort competition.BA and ryanair would have taken them to court over unfair competition and the eu would have upheld it so the government had no chance to help them.

"

Indirectly? Seems vague. Are you suggesting that it would have been fair for the government to bail out FlyBe? Your making a bit of a fool of yourself here

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"its been fun but must go now. "

Seeya, better luck next time

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We don't need a deal as such. Just say to them we won't tax eu goods if you don't tax ours. It's not rocket science they would have to pay more if they didn’t agree.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"We don't need a deal as such. Just say to them we won't tax eu goods if you don't tax ours. It's not rocket science they would have to pay more if they didn’t agree. "

, brilliant

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong?

40 years of utter tripe about the EU in newspapers and from Boris has had the desired effect on you I see.yeah im happy he has managed to do what the people voted for thats what prime ministers are for. "

On the back of lies.... congratulations

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"We don't need a deal as such. Just say to them we won't tax eu goods if you don't tax ours. It's not rocket science they would have to pay more if they didn’t agree. "

I think this is the 'they need us more than we need them' line. We just can shake off that Empire complex can we...

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"Maybe I'm being a bit thick here but isnt that the whole point of a common market?surely we signed upto this?

What's the point of being in a market where you prioritize your own company's?Now we have signed out of it. There is not one country in the eu where the uk has a trade surplus not one,now i would prefer to up our trade with countries that dont want to take the piss and trade on more equal terms like canada,usa,singapore,Switzerland,s korea,hong kong etc who we have a trade surplus with."

If it was so damaging..why didn't we just veto?

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"We don't need a deal as such. Just say to them we won't tax eu goods if you don't tax ours. It's not rocket science they would have to pay more if they didn’t agree.

I think this is the 'they need us more than we need them' line. We just can shake off that Empire complex can we..."

Lockdown?pfft .what do those Europeans know?

We will take it on the chin.

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By *rSinCityMan  over a year ago

London


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong? "

You are not the sharpest tool in the shed, if you see that as a win. What do you think will happen to british consumers when there will be no EU competition on these contracts? Those british corporations that lose the contracts now are charging more than EU counterparts and what do you think will happen then they will have little to no competition? Will they go like '' oh we were charging fellow brits before, but we will make discounts now'' or will they go '' we will charge the shit out of these fuckers since we got now competition now ( even though they are fellow brits)''

What do you think those british corporation will choose?

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By *ondoctorMan  over a year ago

birmingham

Theres no telling some of you,how you belittle anybody who opposes your views,nit picking at the persons views,hard luck ,it was a good idea until we realised its all about germany then of course the french,democratically voted ourselves out of it,the peoples choice,what could be more fair,what can you do,fuck all,40yrs of eec,lets see what 40yrs out of the eu is like,maybe you should start thinking of moving over there if its that good,doesnt sound like youre goin to enjoy the future,you know free movement of people and all

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Theres no telling some of you,how you belittle anybody who opposes your views,nit picking at the persons views,hard luck ,it was a good idea until we realised its all about germany then of course the french,democratically voted ourselves out of it,the peoples choice,what could be more fair,what can you do,fuck all,40yrs of eec,lets see what 40yrs out of the eu is like,maybe you should start thinking of moving over there if its that good,doesnt sound like youre goin to enjoy the future,you know free movement of people and all

"

You fail to realise we had a superb deal, our own currency, a seat at the top table and in the the most successful trading block in the world. Literally nothing, happened on the EU without our say so.

'Nit picking' as you call it is probably reference to those facts that everybody hates these days. I knew we had lost the plot when listening to s certain radio station. A woman rung in and said she had voted Leave well aware that she would probably lose her business by doing so, literally voted to be poorer. I knew then, a no deal is the only way for people to realise what they will lose. I just really know what it is they think they have won??

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"I'm waiting to see the reaction from the brexiteers when the penny drops that leaving the eu is not the answer to all our problems.

Unfortunately the penny will never drop, they will blame the EU, they will blame the pandemic they will blame remain voters "

Sadly true

I think we are in a mess and it’s about to get a whole lot worse !!

Btw American chlorinated chicken and hormone treated beef is now very likely and as long as it arrives in U.K. and is then put into food products in can be labelled UK chicken.

Why are we accepting this crap from our so called leaders? How is that protecting the food chain and why do we want lower standards? It’s not adding up to me.

Vested interests ??? No surely not !!

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"We don't need a deal as such. Just say to them we won't tax eu goods if you don't tax ours. It's not rocket science they would have to pay more if they didn’t agree. "

And as soon as you put £1 into the British Steel corporation it’s tagged as subsidy so full tariffs will apply.

I’m sure the German and French steel makers will support the UK .. hmmmm

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

The Nissan/Sunderland thing doesn't have much to do with brexit.

It effectively comes down to keeping the Sunderland plant open as what they make is popular in our internal market.

Eg, the company will downscale production as announced and keep it strictly for internal market production.

To clarify less car exports.

The Barcelona plant has been negotiated to have a take over by another one of the car manufacturers their close with, basically to keep the plant but change the car production to something more saleable.

So as you can see this isn't a brexit win."

I speak most days to some of the staff at the Barcelona site. They are good people but seriously upset at what's happened. They were told when the UK voted to leave the EU that it was great news for them and Sunderland would be hit hard probably close and they would get the work. Turns out the opposite happened hence their anger.

The Sunderland plant makes far to many cars for domestic sales. Also it is being negotiated for Sunderland to build some Renault cars as they use the same platform. No idea about the thinking with these changes given we are told the car industry in the UK will be decimated now we are out of EU.

Sadly no such plans for Barcelona to be sold to another motor manufacturer

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By *oxychick35Couple  over a year ago

thornaby


"think boris will let the end of june come and go.

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted

to be honest the financial an social shitstorm coming from this virus and the loss of jobs from it is gona make brexit look like a storm in a tea cup

Other countries only have to deal with the damage caused by the virus. We have to deal with the double whammy of Brexit and the virus.

Although it does look like the damage caused by the virus will be worse than the damage caused by brexit. So that's a win for people who voted for it maybe?"

the other 27 eu country’s will have to deal with the damage caused by Brexit aswell lol

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"Theres no telling some of you,how you belittle anybody who opposes your views,nit picking at the persons views,hard luck ,it was a good idea until we realised its all about germany then of course the french,democratically voted ourselves out of it,the peoples choice,what could be more fair,what can you do,fuck all,40yrs of eec,lets see what 40yrs out of the eu is like,maybe you should start thinking of moving over there if its that good,doesnt sound like youre goin to enjoy the future,you know free movement of people and all

You fail to realise we had a superb deal, our own currency, a seat at the top table and in the the most successful trading block in the world. Literally nothing, happened on the EU without our say so.

'Nit picking' as you call it is probably reference to those facts that everybody hates these days. I knew we had lost the plot when listening to s certain radio station. A woman rung in and said she had voted Leave well aware that she would probably lose her business by doing so, literally voted to be poorer. I knew then, a no deal is the only way for people to realise what they will lose. I just really know what it is they think they have won??"

Its staggering isn't it?

Like I said earlier its probally the biggest decision this country has made in the last 50 years and I've still yet to hear just 1 cast iron benefit for leaving..just vague bullshit about taking back control.

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

The Nissan/Sunderland thing doesn't have much to do with brexit.

It effectively comes down to keeping the Sunderland plant open as what they make is popular in our internal market.

Eg, the company will downscale production as announced and keep it strictly for internal market production.

To clarify less car exports.

The Barcelona plant has been negotiated to have a take over by another one of the car manufacturers their close with, basically to keep the plant but change the car production to something more saleable.

So as you can see this isn't a brexit win.

I speak most days to some of the staff at the Barcelona site. They are good people but seriously upset at what's happened. They were told when the UK voted to leave the EU that it was great news for them and Sunderland would be hit hard probably close and they would get the work. Turns out the opposite happened hence their anger.

The Sunderland plant makes far to many cars for domestic sales. Also it is being negotiated for Sunderland to build some Renault cars as they use the same platform. No idea about the thinking with these changes given we are told the car industry in the UK will be decimated now we are out of EU.

Sadly no such plans for Barcelona to be sold to another motor manufacturer"

I don’t know the detail so am not questioning the deal and don’t question the correctness if your comments as you obviously know about it, but am I right in remembering the quote from Nissan? “Sunderland will be kept open subject to productivity improvements /targets”.

I wouldn’t want to be the union rep arguing against anything Nisan want going forward !

Jobs will be thin on the ground going forward after Covid and Brexit.

Also I understand the Jaguar Land Rover site in the Czech Republic has been expanded far more than is needed with any public plans they have announced.

Wonder why??

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"think boris will let the end of june come and go.

I agree, we will leave without a deal then he can blame the subsequent financial disaster on the pandemic, but that is what the leave voters wanted

to be honest the financial an social shitstorm coming from this virus and the loss of jobs from it is gona make brexit look like a storm in a tea cup

Other countries only have to deal with the damage caused by the virus. We have to deal with the double whammy of Brexit and the virus.

Although it does look like the damage caused by the virus will be worse than the damage caused by brexit. So that's a win for people who voted for it maybe?the other 27 eu country’s will have to deal with the damage caused by Brexit aswell lol"

And are you happy about this?

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

The Nissan/Sunderland thing doesn't have much to do with brexit.

It effectively comes down to keeping the Sunderland plant open as what they make is popular in our internal market.

Eg, the company will downscale production as announced and keep it strictly for internal market production.

To clarify less car exports.

The Barcelona plant has been negotiated to have a take over by another one of the car manufacturers their close with, basically to keep the plant but change the car production to something more saleable.

So as you can see this isn't a brexit win.

I speak most days to some of the staff at the Barcelona site. They are good people but seriously upset at what's happened. They were told when the UK voted to leave the EU that it was great news for them and Sunderland would be hit hard probably close and they would get the work. Turns out the opposite happened hence their anger.

The Sunderland plant makes far to many cars for domestic sales. Also it is being negotiated for Sunderland to build some Renault cars as they use the same platform. No idea about the thinking with these changes given we are told the car industry in the UK will be decimated now we are out of EU.

Sadly no such plans for Barcelona to be sold to another motor manufacturer

I don’t know the detail so am not questioning the deal and don’t question the correctness if your comments as you obviously know about it, but am I right in remembering the quote from Nissan? “Sunderland will be kept open subject to productivity improvements /targets”.

I wouldn’t want to be the union rep arguing against anything Nisan want going forward !

Jobs will be thin on the ground going forward after Covid and Brexit.

Also I understand the Jaguar Land Rover site in the Czech Republic has been expanded far more than is needed with any public plans they have announced.

Wonder why??

"

I am talking about what was predicted by a leave vote, what the good people of Barcelona were told and what has actually happened. The Sunderland plant is one of the very best in the world but was under threat by the situation. Many said it would be the end but the bosses made a business decision. It was always hoped given its productivity it could stay open even if it had to scale back. What has actually happened is massive investment last year and now ramping up even bigger. The amount produced is far greater than domestic use and will supply all of Europe with the models it makes. Renault is in an alliance with Nissan and use the same platforms so makes sense to produce at same plant but that's still to be agreed and is in the wake of Renault laying off 15000 people.

I am pleased for the Sunderland plant but sad about my Spanish college's .

Have a few contacts at JLR who report they are getting back to what passes as normal these days and work is increasing quickly especially now China is back online and buying again

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By *V-AliceTV/TS  over a year ago

Ayr


"The other 27 EU countries will have to deal with the damage caused by Brexit as well lol"

Not on their own, like the UK will.

Maybe the 'Brexit Dividend' will save us from the virus? After all, we've got that £350 million a week everyone voted for, to spend on the NHS now.

Haven't we?

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By *ust RachelTV/TS  over a year ago

Eastbourne


"At least we will be able to sort our own shit out without Brussels telling us we cant."

Jokes on you, if we trade with EU companies Brussels will still tell us what to do.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . There will be trade yes but with tariffs set in place, there will still be a loss but less than 50% of the total trade.Not a lot of point quoting those figures then. Yes it is as to show what the uk currently have with the eu and that eu is uks biggest trading partner.All it shows to me is that we import far more from the eu than export i would prefer trading partners where its the other way round."

It is still the biggest trading partner uk have and ever will have. I cant see boris striking any other deals with the world or other standing knocking on the door waiting for trade with the uk cos otherwise there should already be interest before the transition period is over here.

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By *V-AliceTV/TS  over a year ago

Ayr


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again..."

Well, quite. Did Sunderland go Tory at the last election? If they didn't, will Boris answer the phone to their MPs?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

How much faster? Bare in mind if we leave with a no deal we will have no deals Please name th last trade dealer the EU made that we (2nd biggest economy in the eu ) was at the table. "

Just want to pop into this cause nobody tackled it.

By default up until Jan this year when we formally started the legal withdrawal, all trade arrangements with non-eu nations and trade blocs had to be ratified by member states

So by default we were at the table, that is the point of a trade bloc or political union, compromises are made by the member states, everyone weights in, but the advantage for compromise is that your part of the biggest negotiator at the table.

Let's just remember that even without the UK the EEA bloc is the most developed and economically powerful negotiator on the world stage. As others have stated, this is why it is in American economic interest that the bloc breaks, and in Chinese and russian interests, as individual member states have less geopolitical clout.

But to answer your original qs, as of 2014 through to 2019, the EU with the UK involved in negotiations has orchestrated 7 trade deals, 5 are with individual countries, two are two political and economic blocs, the south African blocs and the Pacific Islander blocs. These trade arrangements are in effect band active.

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By *or Fox SakeCouple  over a year ago

Thornaby


"so how much do you think the uk will lose every year from leaving?

How much do you think the UK will gain every year by leaving? That remains to be seen on what deals are delivered on the day we are out of the transition period.that was not the question you must have a figure as you are so sure we will be worse off what is it?

Are you sure we will be better off by leaving? I have faith in business it will always find a way to trade and make money and if you think the eu will just cease trading with the uk in the event of a no deal you are dreaming.

You voted leave? You must have know what you were voting for? It sounds like your not really sure? Is it a great deal? a deal? No deal ? Of course the EU will keep trading with the UK, just like the UK will have you trade with the EU? You must be dreaming if you think we will get the same or better deal then we had before I never said we will get the same or better deal but the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster even the eu know that 90% of trade will be outside the eu in the next 10 years

"the shackles will be off to do other deals a lot faster". Faster than 0.00 seconds? wow. Because we already had the trade deals as part of the EU.

Still this instant trade deal you speak of sounds amazing. At least it would if.

A. Speed was the most important thing.

B. It wasn't bollocks.Twist it how you like mate your cheap jibs mean fuck all to me but im sure you understood that the uk can do faster deals with the rest of the world than the eu.

A quick deal means a bad deal Does it,does it really? its taken the mercosur deal 20 years to negotiate and all the eu countries still cant agree to sign up to it.

Have the UK already agreed a deal with Mercosur then? They will lose alot, about 50% of the trade which is a big part of the economy, the eu, taken as a whole is the uk's largest trading partner, in 2018, uk exports to the eu were £291 billion (45% of all uk exports), uk imports from the eu were £357 billion (53% of all uk imports, where will uk get the money if they lose the deal?So are you telling me shag that there will be NO trade between the eu and uk in the event of a no deal?

Of course there will be trade but why will there be a no deal when we’re promised a great deal ? Exactly so those figures bear no resemblance whatsoever.Still time for a deal if the eu stop trying to keep the uk to eu rules.I dont see them demanding a level playing field with canada,china and other countries . "

Your memory must be slipping.

If you want to sell goods in the EU the products have to be to EU standards.

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By *andy 1Couple  over a year ago

northeast


"or a start state aid rules,we can also use British firms for government contracts without putting them out to tender in the eu.Why do you think the eu want to tie us into their rules? they dont want the competition. where did you prove that as wrong? "

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By *nglishdoodMan  over a year ago

Morristown

Just something to remember: the recent trade deal between the EU and Canada, that everyone involved wanted and largely agreed on at the start took 7 years to negotiate and put to bed.

Just how many negotiators does the UK have to put dozens or hundreds of deals in place on 'day one?'

How in the hell can we possibly have a deal with the EU, where there are so many deal-breaking and divisive issues already, inside 6 months?

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By *ethnmelvCouple  over a year ago

Chudleigh


"Just something to remember: the recent trade deal between the EU and Canada, that everyone involved wanted and largely agreed on at the start took 7 years to negotiate and put to bed.

Just how many negotiators does the UK have to put dozens or hundreds of deals in place on 'day one?'

How in the hell can we possibly have a deal with the EU, where there are so many deal-breaking and divisive issues already, inside 6 months?"

I’m sorry but this kind of logic, sense, truth and fact has no place here! All the Brexit ‘truth’ says that our Masters will get it sorted for us...

They obviously won’t, it will be another BJ clusterfuck but people just don’t realise yet

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By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"Maybe I'm being a bit thick here but isnt that the whole point of a common market?surely we signed upto this?

What's the point of being in a market where you prioritize your own company's?Now we have signed out of it. There is not one country in the eu where the uk has a trade surplus not one,now i would prefer to up our trade with countries that dont want to take the piss and trade on more equal terms like canada,usa,singapore,Switzerland,s korea,hong kong etc who we have a trade surplus with."

How can we share on "more equal terms" than with those in a single market with the same rules and regulations and no internal tariffs?

You have really, really missed the point in trying to "win".

Who benefits and how if we have a fraction of the trade but a small surplus?

Who actually loses if we have a trade deficit?

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again..."

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues"

I'm sorry, I forgot you know better than the boss at Nissan, silly me. Give him a bell, he needs a swinger to tell him he is talking bullshit

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

I'm sorry, I forgot you know better than the boss at Nissan, silly me. Give him a bell, he needs a swinger to tell him he is talking bullshit "

I worked for them leading to the referendum and after. Now I work in their supply chain. The message was the same and always when they expected it would have most effect. This latest one just happened to be in the lead up to the decision if to request an extension - what a surprise. I speak from personal experience and being in the industry linked to nissan. The people in Spain listened to the same messages and were told it made them safe. Now they are shutting their plant instead.

No job in any country can ever be safe but go by what actually happens rather than political messages

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

I'm sorry, I forgot you know better than the boss at Nissan, silly me. Give him a bell, he needs a swinger to tell him he is talking bullshit

I worked for them leading to the referendum and after. Now I work in their supply chain. The message was the same and always when they expected it would have most effect. This latest one just happened to be in the lead up to the decision if to request an extension - what a surprise. I speak from personal experience and being in the industry linked to nissan. The people in Spain listened to the same messages and were told it made them safe. Now they are shutting their plant instead.

No job in any country can ever be safe but go by what actually happens rather than political messages"

Shouldn't you be running the place then if you know best???

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

No,no job is safe but you don't impose economic sanctions on yourself in order to lose jobs. I thought I was supposed to be the one that hated my country??

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

I'm sorry, I forgot you know better than the boss at Nissan, silly me. Give him a bell, he needs a swinger to tell him he is talking bullshit

I worked for them leading to the referendum and after. Now I work in their supply chain. The message was the same and always when they expected it would have most effect. This latest one just happened to be in the lead up to the decision if to request an extension - what a surprise. I speak from personal experience and being in the industry linked to nissan. The people in Spain listened to the same messages and were told it made them safe. Now they are shutting their plant instead.

No job in any country can ever be safe but go by what actually happens rather than political messages

Shouldn't you be running the place then if you know best???"

Like you being PM?

I'm just giving my opinion based on first hand experience. As I say what actually happens is what's important.

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By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues"

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware."

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

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By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway"

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?"

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close"

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

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By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it? "

So you are at odds with some here then

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then"

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that."

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

"

Head of Nissan said if we leave with no deal all bets are off regarding the Sunderland plant.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester

Just read my comment agin. Sometimes I don’t like what I’m writing even though it may be true.

It will be heart breaking for the workers in Sunderland who worked so hard to make that plant such a success.

So I truly hope it stays open and us remainders are wrong .

Just wanted to add that.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"With von der leyen, the deadline for the uk to request an extension of up to two years is the end of june, how do you think it will go? I reckon it will be a bumpy ride but with eu having the upper hand Well Nissan have shut plants in Spain but keeping Sunderland open not exactly what remoaners forcast ha ha

The EU is destitude due to the virus so best to take a six month extension to negotiate a good deal for us.This virus increases the need to leave the EU but must be on our terms

With world trade in bits due to world recession a good time to get trade deals

Head of Nissan said if we leave with no deal all bets are off regarding the Sunderland plant.

"

It was also said before the referendum if voters chose to leave. Again before article 50 if it was signed. again if the withdrawal agreement was passed.

Do you see the pattern?

I would not be surprised to hear another as we get close to crunch time regarding the deal or no deal date. Of course no one knows the future but we can see what actually happens rather than political speeches

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit"

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester

I think debates a good thing. Rashford changed the kids lunch prospects by debate.

Judging by how much they are on their phones in Parliament you never know how many perverted MP’s are on here.

Wonder if there was a sharp intake of breath by a few just then!! Ha ha

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now."

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation"

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet."

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened"

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place? "

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?"

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation "

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *eroy1000Man  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you"

I kind of agree with both of you in some respects.

I think easy's guess as you put it may well have some ground though as mentioned on another thread I suspect it will involve tariff money received so not actually tax money. It would only be possible in a no deal event where both sides pay tariffs. It would be against EU rules but as the UK would be switching to WTO rules its do able as its within their rules.I have to add this is pure speculation before anyone complains.

Switching production elsewhere would involve building new factories or as which seemed more likely changing an existing factory instead of closing it. The Spanish factory could have been converted to make the products of Sunderland keeping production within the EU which is cheaper and more convenient than building new factories in Japan and shipping.

I hope we can all agree we hope and wish the best for those who work in Sunderland

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you"

Here is the fundamental question which you have avoided. Give it a go. If you cannot, you are not adding anything.

How will Nissan sell to the EU through a 10% tariff wall if they have never made more than an 8% margin and are currently haemorrhaging sales and margin?

The Japanese cars are not "physically different" to the point that they could not be built on the same line.

Your turn to provide some proof.

There is actually nothing else that you are able to disagree with me about.

You are also unable to provide another credible explanation.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you

I kind of agree with both of you in some respects.

I think easy's guess as you put it may well have some ground though as mentioned on another thread I suspect it will involve tariff money received so not actually tax money. It would only be possible in a no deal event where both sides pay tariffs. It would be against EU rules but as the UK would be switching to WTO rules its do able as its within their rules.I have to add this is pure speculation before anyone complains.

Switching production elsewhere would involve building new factories or as which seemed more likely changing an existing factory instead of closing it. The Spanish factory could have been converted to make the products of Sunderland keeping production within the EU which is cheaper and more convenient than building new factories in Japan and shipping.

I hope we can all agree we hope and wish the best for those who work in Sunderland"

I hope that our Government does actually manage to come to some agreement with the EU that allows the automotive industry in the UK to remain competitive through free trade to the EU.

Of not the tax payer will be subsidising it and I'm not sure that ultimately helps anyone.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *kstallionMan  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you

Here is the fundamental question which you have avoided. Give it a go. If you cannot, you are not adding anything.

How will Nissan sell to the EU through a 10% tariff wall if they have never made more than an 8% margin and are currently haemorrhaging sales and margin?

The Japanese cars are not "physically different" to the point that they could not be built on the same line.

Your turn to provide some proof.

There is actually nothing else that you are able to disagree with me about.

You are also unable to provide another credible explanation."

Are you some sort of teacher?

I am on here giving my opinion and yes it is not in line with yours but that's how it is. I have said from personal experience what I think and from talking to those directly affected.

You dismiss everyone else's view that does not match your own. Being on a thread with you is more like an exam. It's ironic when you never provided any proof yourself.

Oh and being in the supply chain I see first hand the differences and no they are not compatible.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

 

By *eroy1000Man  over a year ago

milton keynes


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you

Here is the fundamental question which you have avoided. Give it a go. If you cannot, you are not adding anything.

How will Nissan sell to the EU through a 10% tariff wall if they have never made more than an 8% margin and are currently haemorrhaging sales and margin?

The Japanese cars are not "physically different" to the point that they could not be built on the same line.

Your turn to provide some proof.

There is actually nothing else that you are able to disagree with me about.

You are also unable to provide another credible explanation."

I can't get my head around building the cars for Europe in Japan. Even if it is possible

It means they have to

Pay a fortune to close Spain

Pay a fortune to adapt the Japanese factories

Pay to ship the cars all the way from Japan to Europe.

Why not build them in Spain avoiding the shut down costs and no shipping costs.

Also no relying on getting subbed by the UK which of course could end at any time assuming its real.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Certain Japanese cars that were made for the EU market as well as the Japanese domestic market were only built in Japan an shipped to the EU, the generation 6 celica was one such model, so I guess this still could be the case with certain models.

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By *eroy1000Man  over a year ago

milton keynes


"Certain Japanese cars that were made for the EU market as well as the Japanese domestic market were only built in Japan an shipped to the EU, the generation 6 celica was one such model, so I guess this still could be the case with certain models."

Oh its possible with spending vast amounts of money. Was the cars you mention originally built in the EU then moved back to Japan as in this case.

The Nissan case is they have always been made in the EU. A poster mentions they may move production back to Japan. To me it does not make sense to spend a fortune closing Spain then again to set up in Japan then ship the cars back. All the time they could have been built in spain

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool

Bloomberg is estimating that by The end of 2020 Brexit will have cost us £200m

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By *eroy1000Man  over a year ago

milton keynes


"Bloomberg is estimating that by The end of 2020 Brexit will have cost us £200m"

Is that based on a particular outcome of the talks

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By *oggoneMan  over a year ago

Derry


"Bloomberg is estimating that by The end of 2020 Brexit will have cost us £200m"

But you get to exchange foreign unelected bureaucrats for Dominic Cummings. Surely that has to make it all worth while.

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"Bloomberg is estimating that by The end of 2020 Brexit will have cost us £200m

Is that based on a particular outcome of the talks "

Not sure?just read about it on another forum.

They estimated £170m back in jan.

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By *ionelhutzMan  over a year ago

liverpool


"Bloomberg is estimating that by The end of 2020 Brexit will have cost us £200m

But you get to exchange foreign unelected bureaucrats for Dominic Cummings. Surely that has to make it all worth while."

Money well spent

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By *eroy1000Man  over a year ago

milton keynes


"Bloomberg is estimating that by The end of 2020 Brexit will have cost us £200m

Is that based on a particular outcome of the talks

Not sure?just read about it on another forum.

They estimated £170m back in jan."

I tried to look but it keeps asking to subscribe.

See headlines about impact due to investors holding of but also latter headlines about surge investment. One headline says UK economy defies brexit.

All from Bloomberg but without being able to read it can't be sure. As we all know its tricky going by headlines alone

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By *asyukMan  over a year ago

West London


"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52900528

Pesky reality bites again...

Ha welcome To nissan politics. It's exactly what was said leading up to the referendum. Then if article 50 was signed. Then if the withdrawal went though. All the time pumping billions in. Those that paid the price are my colleagues

Nissan received a huge, secret, denied subsidy which was then rescinded after they had committed to tooling and manufacture.

As you should be well aware.

As said I speak from personal experience not based on political quotes. You say secret and then say I should know it. I know longer work directly for them but supply them and work closely with the people in Spain but not for much longer.

The cost of decommissioning the Barcelona ant was greater than keeping it open but they went ahead anyway

It was secret. Not so much now.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3881692/Ministers-sent-ditch-letter-promising-protect-Nissan-Brexit-costs-face-calls-reveal-details-deal-kept-car-maker-UK.html

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/04/government-letter-to-nissan-reveals-brexit-promise-to-carmarkers

Nissan will stay because the government will pay for every penny that it is out of pocket.

Why would they ever leave if you, I and everyone else is paying them to stay?

Oh your talking about old news. I thought you meant something new not the money for the X trail.

Seems you are at odd with some on here as they insist it will close

They will if we stop paying and it becomes uneconomic to remain.

Again, that's the point. It only makes business sense to stay if they are being paid to.

Also, with a nice pay wall to increase the cost of any competing products they have a nice little captive market.

That's not really a win is it?

So you are at odds with some here then

The Nissan plant in the UK becomes uneconomic with a no deal Brexit.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

The logical outcome of a factory becoming uneconomic to run would be for it to shut.

I'm not in disagreement about that.

Are you?

I may disagree on what the final outcome of this will be.

Those who think that the plant will shut may well assume that the government would not spend vast amounts of money to keep it open.

I think that they will spend almost any sum to avoid such a significant political embarrassment.

We may well disagree about that.

Again I will see what actually happens rather than go on speculation. What has actually happened is billions of investment in Sunderland in the full knowledge of brexit and no deal brexit being a possibility What has actually happened is Barcelona being shut. I here these political messages and particular points. I would not be surprised to here something when it gets closer crunch time regarding deal or no deal brexit

Actually, the several hundred million, rather than billions, has not been spent yet.

Regardless, why would you not if the government have underwritten you?

There is a global downturn with Nissan having been in trouble anyway so plant closures were on the cards anyway.

The EU trade deal with Japan makes them a more unified market so that's how you consider the rationalisation.

The UK is an interesting, low risk, government backed side bet now.

So now your claiming Nissan are being underwritten by the UK government. Where is the proof?.

Even you said in a previous post you are basing it on the fact the government once invested in the plant and that you was extrapolating. That's not proof at all its just you guessing.

Yes Nissan like most car companies were in trouble before the virus but that has a lot to do with the change from diesel. It's hit the motor industry hard.

As you say the EU and Japan now have a trade arrangement. Even with that Nissan decided to close Barcelona instead.

To call keeping Sunderland a side bet is crazy. They make the qashqai, juke and leaf which are the most successful cars and vital to their survival. If those cars fail so does Nissan yet even with the possibility of a no deal or very limited deal with the EU they choose to build them in the UK and not in the EU.

Those things are reality not guesses or speculation

I will step through this again.

The UK Government secretly offered Nissan tens of millions in subsidy to keep the production of Nissan vehicles in the UK. Something that was denied but then proven to be true.

Links have been provided.

I come to a decision about future behaviour based on previous and current. This current govenment lies without shame. It will do anything to look good regardless of the reality.

Nissan is not in trouble because of "the change from diesel". It's in trouble because of setting sales targets to gain market share at the expense of profits and the devaluation of the brand. Consequently, lower cash reserves than other brands despite their scale.

Nissan closed the Barcelona plan because of the trade deal. Have a think about that. Can you work out why that might be the case? Free trade has positive and negative outcomes for individual states and regions despitethe overall increase in wealth that they generate.

Nissan are perfectly capable of tooling up for production of their vehicles elsewhere should they need to. In Renalt or Nissan plants in the EU or Japan. If there is a no deal Brexit, then they sit in the UK with highly taxed imports and sew up the lower end of the market with any excess costs soaked up by the UK tax payer.

If there is a deal on the automotive and aerospace industries (as is likely) then there is no loss but they have still got subsidies to keep them sweet.

And I will answer it again

Your guessing

You even admit it in your post although you try to dress it up. You base your guess on a past event t h at is not the same but have no knowledge or guarantee it being repeated. You provide no proof just your guess. I base my view on actual reality.

All motor manufacturers have been hit very hard by the change from diesel though Nissan did over expose themselves.

The cars made in the UK are mainly for Europe. Nissan localise production to regions. Russia have a plant but their cars differ to europe,japan ect.

You say tooling up at another plant as if its as simple as that. Sadly its not. Production lines are Taylor made to particular models. The cost is very high Indeed and not quick.

Barcelona was closed because they were running at a fraction of full capacity. again the vehicles made at Barcelona are not made anywhere else. If Nissan were to close or scale back sunderland they had a golden opportunity to move production to Barcelona where they already have a skilled workforce.

The reality is Barcelona was shut because of running at very low capacity. Sunderland that is the only producer of EU top selling nissans and has been kept open despite the chance to move it to the EU

You believe your guesses if you wish and continue to dress them up as facts even though you provide no proof proof, its your right. My points are actual events that have actually happened

Continued advocacy of the "don't think too much until forced to" method.

Let's take the next step in your "actual events that have actually happened" process.

We can even take a few back too.

Then we can apply thinking to why these things are the case.

The UK Government have offered Nissan tend of millions in subsidies and denied that they have done so.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The current government lies a lot and is loudly proclaiming hard Brexit as a very possible outcome.

"actual events that have actually happened"

The German and French manufacturers were also heavily commited to diesel yet have still managed to turn a profit up until recently. Nissan were already in more trouble than everyone else due to their heavy incentives.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Japan and the EU are now a single automotive manufacturing market.

There has been overcapacity in the EU and Japan long before the pandemic hit. UK production went down from five shifts to four.

The Qashqai, Juke and Leaf are also built in Japan.

The product range will be cut further.

Nissan products are already built in the same factories as its partner Renault.

Nissan is focusing on Japan, North America and China as its core markets.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Nissan has never made a profit margin of more than about 8%.

"actual events that have actually happened"

Sunderland is not going to be in the EU.

If there is a no deal Brexit, there will be a 10% tariff on automotive sales.

You can now explain how Nissan will make a profit exporting to the EU without subsidy?

The bet that they have is that there will be a trade deal for the automotive and aerospace industries due to the significant mutual interest in doing so.

The other option is that EU imports into the UK are severely limited. Our choice is limited as costs increase and Renault-Nissan becomes the midrange market leader by default.

In the depths of a profit collapse do you think that Nissan would take any sort of a gamble without government guarantees in place?

Again you try to dress up you guess.

I did not dispute past actual events I said your guess of future events is still a guess . You justify it by using past events which is fine but it remains a guess. Unless of course you can provide hard evidence.

I did say Nissan was over exposed but the diesel issue has indeed hit most car companies hard. Only the other week Renault announced 15000 job losses because of on going slump not just the virus.

The cars built in japan share the same name as those built in the UK but are quite different as they are built for their target markets. To change production for the European versions would not entail building a new plant from scratch. It's a common mistake people thinking you can just use spare capacity somewhere else. The plants that are currently in use can only produce the cars they produce now not others. The only way to change it would not only be extremely expensive but of course the cars they did produce now can't be. It's not like producing the exact same product around the world. Each plant is Taylor made you can't chop and change to try to take up slack.

The European qashqai, juke and leaf are only produced at Sunderland - no where else at all.

Again all facts not guesses

Now I know Nissan have a long term plan (power) and at present we don't know the outcome of the EU talks. You seem to be basing everything on the fact that the UK has invested in Nissan on particular projects.

Do you have hard evidence that the UK is going to subsidize Nissan on an on going basis?

I understand that you keep saying that events have happened.

I do not understand what point you are trying to make?

That things that have happened have happened? I'm not disagreeing with you.

Well done. That does not really add any information does it? Nothing. No value added.

I am making an effort to explain, with reasons, why these events have happened. You seem to be far more speculative in your assertions here and made a lot of assumptions about what I have written.

If you are actually claiming that Nissan has not seen significantly worse position in its profitability than other car makers in recent years then perhaps a little more research is in order.

Renault's profits fell 11.8% in 2019. Pretty bad.

Nissan's profits fell 35% in 2019. A little bit worse wouldn't you say?

I did not imply that it was "easy" to shift production, but it is not so challenging when production already takes place elsewhere. There is no "chopping and changing". There is adding additional shifts to create the same product.

It is quite possible to manufacture a given vehicle line for every market you sell to from the same factory.

What does Jaguar Land Rover do? Hyundai? Audi? BMW?

Why is Nissan incapable of doing this should it feel that it would benefit from doing so?

Is the EU and Japan a unified automotive market with the trade deal?

How is UK production pertinent to that relationship when it will be outside this market?

Do you have hard evidence of how Nissan will export to the EU and turn a profit across a 10% tariff barrier?

If not then you needn't say anymore.

Leave it to me to "guess" based on previous and current UK government behaviour as well as Nissan and other automaker's public statements together with the economics of the situation

I understand your reasons for making the guess I am saying that until it actually happens it remains a guess which now you finale admit. Of course if you have hard evidence of your guess being correct that would be great.

Maybe it's because I keep hearing people saying things will happen as though they are fact when it turns out to be speculation. It's also from personal experience as mentioned many posts ago I worked for nissan at the time of the ref and soon after. Now in the supply chain dealing with people in the Barcelona plant. Those in Spain tell me directly how distraught they are as they were told the UK leaving the EU guaranteed their future and Sunderland would take any hits. Understandably they are now not happy.

I have said twice now that Nissan were overexposed

Your claim of making the cars that Sunderland make in Japan in the same lines are incorrect. They are physically different cars. It's the same in Russia where they also make a qashqai but it is very different to the euro version and Japanese version. The original euro qashqai was designed, engineered and produced in the UK and is the best selling to this day. For Nissan to rely on what you claim even ifs it did exist would be crazy as it could be stopped at any point as governments come and go and priorities change. They simply cannot afford to stop building it. Barcelona would have been the obvious choice to take over building it. Even though changing the site would be extremely expensive they are having to spend vast amounts decommissioning it.

I will certainly leave guessing to you

Here is the fundamental question which you have avoided. Give it a go. If you cannot, you are not adding anything.

How will Nissan sell to the EU through a 10% tariff wall if they have never made more than an 8% margin and are currently haemorrhaging sales and margin?

The Japanese cars are not "physically different" to the point that they could not be built on the same line.

Your turn to provide some proof.

There is actually nothing else that you are able to disagree with me about.

You are also unable to provide another credible explanation.

I can't get my head around building the cars for Europe in Japan. Even if it is possible

It means they have to

Pay a fortune to close Spain

Pay a fortune to adapt the Japanese factories

Pay to ship the cars all the way from Japan to Europe.

Why not build them in Spain avoiding the shut down costs and no shipping costs.

Also no relying on getting subbed by the UK which of course could end at any time assuming its real."

Hyundai and Kia are built in Korea and shipped to the EU.

The shipping cost is not that high if there is no tariff to pay at the end of it.

Jaguar Land Rover is shipped from hete to America but as a premium product the extra tariff cost can be taken.

As I said, these vehicles are all made in Japana already. The cost for EU spec. Is minimal. Perhaps the other poster can explain why that is not the case but cars are aready assembled for multiple territories in the same factory as a matter of course.

Shutting in Spain is a cost but less than running an uneconomic one indefinitely. Especially if there is little prospect of production ramping up again.

They will have done the maths.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Certain Japanese cars that were made for the EU market as well as the Japanese domestic market were only built in Japan an shipped to the EU, the generation 6 celica was one such model, so I guess this still could be the case with certain models.

Oh its possible with spending vast amounts of money. Was the cars you mention originally built in the EU then moved back to Japan as in this case.

The Nissan case is they have always been made in the EU. A poster mentions they may move production back to Japan. To me it does not make sense to spend a fortune closing Spain then again to set up in Japan then ship the cars back. All the time they could have been built in spain"

no the celica was only ever built in Japan and then shipped to other markets, EU, USA etc, I don't know if this is still the case for certain models, and am unsure if any of the other Japanese car manufacturers did the same or not, its interesting though because the cars made for the USA and EU had several differences to the Japanese domestic models, even down to certain colours than were only available in certain countries, yet the cars were all produced in Japan.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

I have done a new thread we can continue on

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