FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > The U.K. is falling apart. What happened?
The U.K. is falling apart. What happened?
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"A lot of Welsh want out aswell The independence movement here has grown rapidly especially over the last year "That would save the rest of the uk nearly £14 billion a year if they left.  | |||
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"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. " I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. " Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be. | |||
"Terrible sights in N Ireland of young kids on both sides of the sectarian divide being used as political pawns to push their own agenda’s. With his NI Protocol, Boris has effectively acknowledged that the future of N Ireland is going to be more aligned with Eire than with rUK. Naturally, Loyalists are furious and Republicans will use this situation to push their own agenda. Meanwhile in Scotland, a second Scottish Nationalist Party looks on the face of it to be about to blunt the SNP sword, but will also take Labour and Conservative votes as well. In effect delivering a super-majority, pro-independence governance in Scotland. Wow... these things are happening so fast. Who could ever have imagined in our lifetime that the United Kingdom would collapse by losing Scotland and N Ireland? We can argue all we want, but it really is now just a question of when - not if." it as always been a question of when not of tho | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be." Think you’ll find the EU will break up first anyway, protests daily on the streets of France, Spain, Greece etc | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be." Remind me again when the snp was formed oh and plaid cymru not forgetting of course the IRA, now compare that to the EU. Yet in your mind they were formed so those parts of the UK could stay in the EU. It's funny how you think its totally acceptable for those areas to have a democratic vote to become independent( which of course it is ) but wont accept the democratic vote of the UK to leave the EU. As a matter of interest what percentage should the independence supports have to obtain together there way is a simple one vote majority enough? | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be." not quiet true though is it? wales did have a majority to leave as did NI but dont let facts get in the way.  | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be. Remind me again when the snp was formed oh and plaid cymru not forgetting of course the IRA, now compare that to the EU. Yet in your mind they were formed so those parts of the UK could stay in the EU. It's funny how you think its totally acceptable for those areas to have a democratic vote to become independent( which of course it is ) but wont accept the democratic vote of the UK to leave the EU. As a matter of interest what percentage should the independence supports have to obtain together there way is a simple one vote majority enough? " I understand remainers to require around 60% (A "convincing majority") of the entire electorate to be a valid referendum. | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be.not quiet true though is it? wales did have a majority to leave as did NI but dont let facts get in the way. "Sorry just double checked ni voted remain But doesnt change the fact that wales along with England voted leave. | |||
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"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue." but do you accept brexit now tho lol | |||
" As a matter of interest what percentage should the independence supports have to obtain together there way is a simple one vote majority enough? " That is going to be a crucial question with regards to N Ireland going forwards. As long as there remains a belligerence about the Unionist movement in N Ireland the question of the level of majority is somewhat moot. The issue as a see it in N Ireland is that EU Membership, the Single Market and the Customs Union facilitated the Good Friday Agreement in that it enabled all dwellers in the North to be as Irish or as British as they wanted to be and although somewhat a sleight of hand, it did provide a delicate balance. Now, whichever way you look at it, Boris Johnson has upset that balance by effectively demonstrating that the future of N Ireland is going to be more closely aligned with the South, than with rUK. The N Ireland Protocol does put trading restrictions between rUK and N Ireland and for belligerent Unionists that is a very big deal. We might say that reunification is inevitable and maybe it is, but the N Ireland protocol has just given it a massive nudge in that direction with offering a shred of empathy to a Unionist movement that has stood firm alongside the Conservative Party for decades. These people will not go down without a fight and the blood from those fights is going to be quite rightly on the hands of those who were not prepared to see further than "Leave the EU." | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol" As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. | |||
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"A lot of Welsh want out aswell The independence movement here has grown rapidly especially over the last year That would save the rest of the uk nearly £14 billion a year if they left. "What rest of the U.K? England you mean? Scotland and NI will be gone long before us  | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few." Tax dodgers, criminals.... | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few." So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy " I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus." That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. | |||
" wales along with England voted leave." this highlights the fact that welsh independence is not based on a reaction to brexit or a desire to remain in the EU. it just shows how increasingly fed up the Cymro are of english governance | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus." so in other words the people should never of had the choice of staying in the eu or leaving then is that your democracy | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly." Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. " so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ?" You are still doing it! As we are seeing it was never just about leaving the EU. The ongoing ramifications will have primary, secondary and latent effects on millions and millions of people for decades to come. Have you noticed that in light of post-January issues, most Brexiters have gone quiet about “knowing exactly what they voted for.” Anyone knowingly voting to carve up their own country, put peace in Northern Ireland at risk and fuck over Fishermen, Farmers, ExPats in the EU, food producers and drop-shippers has really got some questions to answer from the rest of the country. And by the way, not for one second do I believe that typical Brexit voters would have willingly voted for these things to happen. Brexit would never have happened if people had been allowed to fully digest the greater ramifications - no one would have voted to put fisherman, farmers snd food producers in financial difficulties. They just didn’t want to believe that it would happen. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? You are still doing it! As we are seeing it was never just about leaving the EU. The ongoing ramifications will have primary, secondary and latent effects on millions and millions of people for decades to come. Have you noticed that in light of post-January issues, most Brexiters have gone quiet about “knowing exactly what they voted for.” Anyone knowingly voting to carve up their own country, put peace in Northern Ireland at risk and fuck over Fishermen, Farmers, ExPats in the EU, food producers and drop-shippers has really got some questions to answer from the rest of the country. And by the way, not for one second do I believe that typical Brexit voters would have willingly voted for these things to happen. Brexit would never have happened if people had been allowed to fully digest the greater ramifications - no one would have voted to put fisherman, farmers snd food producers in financial difficulties. They just didn’t want to believe that it would happen." your also doing it again refusing to answer the question as for farmers amd fishermen amd ex pats you do know alot of them voted leave you just can’t accept we’ve left and you wanted to stay | |||
"Terrible sights in N Ireland of young kids on both sides of the sectarian divide being used as political pawns to push their own agenda’s. With his NI Protocol, Boris has effectively acknowledged that the future of N Ireland is going to be more aligned with Eire than with rUK. Naturally, Loyalists are furious and Republicans will use this situation to push their own agenda. Meanwhile in Scotland, a second Scottish Nationalist Party looks on the face of it to be about to blunt the SNP sword, but will also take Labour and Conservative votes as well. In effect delivering a super-majority, pro-independence governance in Scotland. Wow... these things are happening so fast. Who could ever have imagined in our lifetime that the United Kingdom would collapse by losing Scotland and N Ireland? We can argue all we want, but it really is now just a question of when - not if." Ireland has always been a political problem for UK The problems there, supposedly (??????) sorted by the good Friday agreement still exist. The media are conveniently ignoring the fact that people have been under effective house arrest for a year and it suits their/government agendas to apply blame for the rioting to the troubles. We will see similar on the mainland as this nonsense continues but it will be highlighted differently in the press and the usual suspects will be rolled out to disguise the fact that enough is enough | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ?" Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice? | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. " Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice?" You want them to agree with your choice not have their own. They had a choice and that was to leave. | |||
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" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice? You want them to agree with your choice not have their own. They had a choice and that was to leave." I think that you are completely missing the point or you really do simply think that you are going to have your vote and you don’t care if your vote has negative consequences to anyone else because you and your vote are more important than how your vote affects anyone else. I mean, that does actually sound like Brexit in a nutshell, so maybe it is the latter. | |||
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"What people are also not mentioning is that the republic also have to be consulted and I'm not sure they want to afford the cost of NI " It’s not about cost. Same as it was never about cost when West Germany was reunited with East Germany. Northern Irish land is stolen land. Notwithstanding, Eire is booming and accumulating the stolen counties would not hurt in the longer term. It would be an investment in themselves. | |||
"What people are also not mentioning is that the republic also have to be consulted and I'm not sure they want to afford the cost of NI It’s not about cost. Same as it was never about cost when West Germany was reunited with East Germany. Northern Irish land is stolen land. Notwithstanding, Eire is booming and accumulating the stolen counties would not hurt in the longer term. It would be an investment in themselves." Now your just being stupid, it's not stolen land it belongs to the people who bought and paid for it, try telling Aussies,new zealanders or americans that they have stolen their land. If people vote for a unighted Ireland then that's 100% their right, I think it would be a shame but it's none of my business | |||
"What people are also not mentioning is that the republic also have to be consulted and I'm not sure they want to afford the cost of NI It’s not about cost. Same as it was never about cost when West Germany was reunited with East Germany. Northern Irish land is stolen land. Notwithstanding, Eire is booming and accumulating the stolen counties would not hurt in the longer term. It would be an investment in themselves. Now your just being stupid, it's not stolen land it belongs to the people who bought and paid for it, try telling Aussies,new zealanders or americans that they have stolen their land. If people vote for a unighted Ireland then that's 100% their right, I think it would be a shame but it's none of my business " I hate to break it to you, but Britain has been an occupying force in Northern Ireland for 800 years. That land belongs to Eire. It surprises me that a Brexiter would have such a poor grasp of history  | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods." Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice? You want them to agree with your choice not have their own. They had a choice and that was to leave." I don't follow, what has my choice got to do with anything? Completely irrelevant to the reality of brexit. Brexit is bad for British people. And the winners, as you like to talk about, have won, just coincidence that they were the same people who funded the Brexit campaigns. | |||
"What people are also not mentioning is that the republic also have to be consulted and I'm not sure they want to afford the cost of NI It’s not about cost. Same as it was never about cost when West Germany was reunited with East Germany. Northern Irish land is stolen land. Notwithstanding, Eire is booming and accumulating the stolen counties would not hurt in the longer term. It would be an investment in themselves. Now your just being stupid, it's not stolen land it belongs to the people who bought and paid for it, try telling Aussies,new zealanders or americans that they have stolen their land. If people vote for a unighted Ireland then that's 100% their right, I think it would be a shame but it's none of my business I hate to break it to you, but Britain has been an occupying force in Northern Ireland for 800 years. That land belongs to Eire. It surprises me that a Brexiter would have such a poor grasp of history "The majority of the politicians that represent those who live have up to date always supported being part of the UK, indeed a referendum was held which supported that view, I'm surprised that someone who claims to be so clever ignores democracy | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice? You want them to agree with your choice not have their own. They had a choice and that was to leave. I think that you are completely missing the point or you really do simply think that you are going to have your vote and you don’t care if your vote has negative consequences to anyone else because you and your vote are more important than how your vote affects anyone else. I mean, that does actually sound like Brexit in a nutshell, so maybe it is the latter."
This is a good way of articulating it.
There is lots of talk of "we won, you lost" as if was a game of football.
The winners are plain to see, and it's not related to which way anyone voted. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you." Oh dear Somerset capital made 47 MILLION due to the lower pound according to channel 4, you tell more porkies than boris. Where did I say I was excited about us firms getting involved with the nhs, IF they can increase efficiency which results in less fat cats, more front line staff and better outcomes for patients then that would be a good thing, obviously politics is more important to you than bringing the NHS up to date. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. Oh dear Somerset capital made 47 MILLION due to the lower pound according to channel 4, you tell more porkies than boris. Where did I say I was excited about us firms getting involved with the nhs, IF they can increase efficiency which results in less fat cats, more front line staff and better outcomes for patients then that would be a good thing, obviously politics is more important to you than bringing the NHS up to date." I don't know what channel four report you're talking about. But their sales figures were billions in the year after the referendum. Fine, you can believe that US big pharma are altruistic. Again. Fair play to you. This is not reflecting the reality of the trade talks. In any case. If your argument is that the reality of brexit is not the reality of brexit. Then this conversation is going nowhere. I always regret these discussions with brexiteers. I'm sure you're genuine in your beliefs. And I wish you the best. | |||
" wales along with England voted leave. this highlights the fact that welsh independence is not based on a reaction to brexit or a desire to remain in the EU. it just shows how increasingly fed up the Cymro are of english governance" This this this | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice? You want them to agree with your choice not have their own. They had a choice and that was to leave. I think that you are completely missing the point or you really do simply think that you are going to have your vote and you don’t care if your vote has negative consequences to anyone else because you and your vote are more important than how your vote affects anyone else. I mean, that does actually sound like Brexit in a nutshell, so maybe it is the latter.
This is a good way of articulating it.
There is lots of talk of "we won, you lost" as if was a game of football.
The winners are plain to see, and it's not related to which way anyone voted."Salty remainer tears  | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice? You want them to agree with your choice not have their own. They had a choice and that was to leave. I think that you are completely missing the point or you really do simply think that you are going to have your vote and you don’t care if your vote has negative consequences to anyone else because you and your vote are more important than how your vote affects anyone else. I mean, that does actually sound like Brexit in a nutshell, so maybe it is the latter." the same can be said about a vote in a general election or do they not have negative consequences for some people or are you missing that point just face it you only accept democracy when it goes the way you want | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. Oh dear Somerset capital made 47 MILLION due to the lower pound according to channel 4, you tell more porkies than boris. Where did I say I was excited about us firms getting involved with the nhs, IF they can increase efficiency which results in less fat cats, more front line staff and better outcomes for patients then that would be a good thing, obviously politics is more important to you than bringing the NHS up to date. I don't know what channel four report you're talking about. But their sales figures were billions in the year after the referendum. Fine, you can believe that US big pharma are altruistic. Again. Fair play to you. This is not reflecting the reality of the trade talks. In any case. If your argument is that the reality of brexit is not the reality of brexit. Then this conversation is going nowhere. I always regret these discussions with brexiteers. I'm sure you're genuine in your beliefs. And I wish you the best. " Im not surprised you regret getting involved with discussing things when you get caught out lying, according to google Somerset capital had a turnover of 38 million in 2019 and it was down 20 percent in 2020. Are you Donald trump making up lies on the go ? | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice?" because they had there choice and your complaining about it or am I wrong are you not | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you." . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. Oh dear Somerset capital made 47 MILLION due to the lower pound according to channel 4, you tell more porkies than boris. Where did I say I was excited about us firms getting involved with the nhs, IF they can increase efficiency which results in less fat cats, more front line staff and better outcomes for patients then that would be a good thing, obviously politics is more important to you than bringing the NHS up to date. I don't know what channel four report you're talking about. But their sales figures were billions in the year after the referendum. Fine, you can believe that US big pharma are altruistic. Again. Fair play to you. This is not reflecting the reality of the trade talks. In any case. If your argument is that the reality of brexit is not the reality of brexit. Then this conversation is going nowhere. I always regret these discussions with brexiteers. I'm sure you're genuine in your beliefs. And I wish you the best. Im not surprised you regret getting involved with discussing things when you get caught out lying, according to google Somerset capital had a turnover of 38 million in 2019 and it was down 20 percent in 2020. Are you Donald trump making up lies on the go ? " No, i regret it because I get called a liar by someone who twists everything to try to "win". Quoting figures from years that haven't been discussed. As an example. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice?because they had there choice and your complaining about it or am I wrong are you not " You're wrong. I am not complaining that people had a choice. As exampled by the words I used. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. " Google "how much money did Jacob Rees mogg make from brexit". And you'll see how much money he made as one of the owners of the company. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. Google "how much money did Jacob Rees mogg make from brexit". And you'll see how much money he made as one of the owners of the company. " Hello. The information returned is all purely speculation. You initially claimed he made billions , whereas the articles quotes £7 million ( in neither case is any evidence supplied to back up the claim ). | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. Google "how much money did Jacob Rees mogg make from brexit". And you'll see how much money he made as one of the owners of the company. Hello. The information returned is all purely speculation. You initially claimed he made billions , whereas the articles quotes £7 million ( in neither case is any evidence supplied to back up the claim ). " Fine. Don't choose to read the correct article. Carry on with whatever you believe to be true. Good luck to you. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. Google "how much money did Jacob Rees mogg make from brexit". And you'll see how much money he made as one of the owners of the company. Hello. The information returned is all purely speculation. You initially claimed he made billions , whereas the articles quotes £7 million ( in neither case is any evidence supplied to back up the claim ). Fine. Don't choose to read the correct article. Carry on with whatever you believe to be true. Good luck to you. "What is the correct article the one that suites your agenda?  | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. Google "how much money did Jacob Rees mogg make from brexit". And you'll see how much money he made as one of the owners of the company. Hello. The information returned is all purely speculation. You initially claimed he made billions , whereas the articles quotes £7 million ( in neither case is any evidence supplied to back up the claim ). Fine. Don't choose to read the correct article. Carry on with whatever you believe to be true. Good luck to you. What is the correct article the one that suites your agenda? "There is no article that suits my agenda. Just articles that discuss what happened with JRM, his role in Brexit as a member of the ERG and the money his company made as a result of it. | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. Oh dear Somerset capital made 47 MILLION due to the lower pound according to channel 4, you tell more porkies than boris. Where did I say I was excited about us firms getting involved with the nhs, IF they can increase efficiency which results in less fat cats, more front line staff and better outcomes for patients then that would be a good thing, obviously politics is more important to you than bringing the NHS up to date. I don't know what channel four report you're talking about. But their sales figures were billions in the year after the referendum. Fine, you can believe that US big pharma are altruistic. Again. Fair play to you. This is not reflecting the reality of the trade talks. In any case. If your argument is that the reality of brexit is not the reality of brexit. Then this conversation is going nowhere. I always regret these discussions with brexiteers. I'm sure you're genuine in your beliefs. And I wish you the best. Im not surprised you regret getting involved with discussing things when you get caught out lying, according to google Somerset capital had a turnover of 38 million in 2019 and it was down 20 percent in 2020. Are you Donald trump making up lies on the go ? No, i regret it because I get called a liar by someone who twists everything to try to "win". Quoting figures from years that haven't been discussed. As an example. " Ok then which year did somerset capital turnover "billions" and which year did they make "billions" in profits . | |||
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" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. so do you think the people shouldn’t be allowed the choice then is that the country you want to live in where the people don’t get to say if they want to be in the eu or leave ? Why have you assumed I don't want people to have a choice?because they had there choice and your complaining about it or am I wrong are you not You're wrong. I am not complaining that people had a choice. As exampled by the words I used. " so you do think we should of had a referendum then ? | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be." maybe some of us english are just bored of we will leave if we don't get are way so when can we have a vote to leave them I certainly love the Irish and scots but wouldn't miss them leaving. | |||
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"I take it that if the UK had remained in the EU, then Sturgeon wouldnt be mithering for a referendum for Scottish independence? Or are we blaming her vociferousness on the subject solely on the UK leaving the EU? Which is it? " Have you ever poured petrol onto a fire? What happened? | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be. Remind me again when the snp was formed oh and plaid cymru not forgetting of course the IRA, now compare that to the EU. Yet in your mind they were formed so those parts of the UK could stay in the EU. It's funny how you think its totally acceptable for those areas to have a democratic vote to become independent( which of course it is ) but wont accept the democratic vote of the UK to leave the EU. As a matter of interest what percentage should the independence supports have to obtain together there way is a simple one vote majority enough? " Also anyone thinking other countries in Europe do not have similar issues of areas wishing to leave is obviously too young to remember ETA etc. Try Googling “Separatists in Europe” you’ll find pretty much every country has somewhere that doesn’t want to “Belong”. S | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. Brexit wasn't a game though. But if you want to talk about it in terms of winning and losing. Who really won. A. People who own investment firms who were in a position to influence the vote and influence government policy. B. People who own businesses that are hoping the UK removes some of the EU red tape that protects the environment and workers. C. US big pharma, when the trade deal with the US comes through. D. US agriculture, also dependent on the trade deal. E. Some people who make money from disaster capitalism. IE the current government and their cronies. Who lost. All of us. Ok so why would investment firms want an economy to fail, hardly a way to.make money for them, there has been absolutely no suggestion of reducing environmental or workers rights, indeed there has just been an increase in the minimum wage. If a trade deal with the usa happens and we can modernise the nhs then that's a good thing,its not about selling bits off it's about being more efficient, but hey ho you keep peddling falsehoods. Look at what Somerset Capital did. They made billions shorting the pound. We all know who owns large portion of this company. You're probably the only person I've heard being excited about US big pharma buying into the NHS. Fair play to you. . Hello. Do you have access to the published accounts of Somerset Capital? I have just been on their website and browsed through their various investment funds . I can see no reference to gains of billions of pounds made by shorting . I am not even certain that this would be a permissible investment activity. In any event my understanding is that Somerset Assset Management manage funds on behalf of investors, so gains would accrue to investors, not Jacob Lees Mogg personally. They are managing the fund , not necessarily investing in it. Google "how much money did Jacob Rees mogg make from brexit". And you'll see how much money he made as one of the owners of the company. Hello. The information returned is all purely speculation. You initially claimed he made billions , whereas the articles quotes £7 million ( in neither case is any evidence supplied to back up the claim ). Fine. Don't choose to read the correct article. Carry on with whatever you believe to be true. Good luck to you. What is the correct article the one that suites your agenda? " | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. " Well said Quickest way to give them independence is give the English a vote on it Scotland not part of uk not part of Eu whoops | |||
"I take it that if the UK had remained in the EU, then Sturgeon wouldnt be mithering for a referendum for Scottish independence? Or are we blaming her vociferousness on the subject solely on the UK leaving the EU? Which is it? " They wanted independence long before brexit and if we had voted remain would still want it. What it has done is given them an excuse to ask for another Indy ref earlier than would otherwise be the case. At some point they were going to have another vote and if they don't win then another and another until they do win. Only the timing has changed | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... " Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. " If that was true the majority would have been more like 80/20. | |||
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"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. If that was true the majority would have been more like 80/20." Hi Emma Look up tax haven and the U.K.’ s leading role in the avoidance of tax. We account for 65% of global tax evasion of which £465Billion we know of. . Remaining part of the EU would have clawed some of that back for our country. So the leave campaign was backed by those very wealthy tax avoiders. It’s all publicly available information. Obviously the total figure of tax “evasion” is unknown but thought to be at least three times as much. | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. If that was true the majority would have been more like 80/20. Hi Emma Look up tax haven and the U.K.’ s leading role in the avoidance of tax. We account for 65% of global tax evasion of which £465Billion we know of. . Remaining part of the EU would have clawed some of that back for our country. So the leave campaign was backed by those very wealthy tax avoiders. It’s all publicly available information. Obviously the total figure of tax “evasion” is unknown but thought to be at least three times as much. " I’m well aware of that and it’s ridiculous but it is money from all around the world, Russia, China, America that is being hidden, has gone on for decades nothing to do with Brexit. | |||
"Just my opinion. I think Boris made a mistake by not keeping the customs union. It was the only major difference to Mays deal. So he shouted hers down vigorously with this major change. We have to abide by the level playing field so can’t do anything dramatic about subsidies. There is no great benefit from being outside it. We are not going to set any major dramatic tariffs changes. Most of the deals we have are copycat EU deals. So very little in the way of benefits overall. However by staying in it. Banking would have kept key passports and the share trading along with the massive funds now sitting inside the EU banks. . Business would have had the same easy cheaper access to markets. Borders would be in place to stop free movement so anti immigrants brigade would be happy There would be no border in the Irish Sea or on the main island of Ireland. So not risk of the return to violence we now see. We have completely fucked up on the customs union opt out. This was all down to Boris sucking up to the extremists in his party. " The level playing field thing is a joke we all know the Germans and particularly the French aren’t going to pay any attention to that from their side of the deal. Leaving the customs union was the only true Brexit. | |||
"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. If that was true the majority would have been more like 80/20. Hi Emma Look up tax haven and the U.K.’ s leading role in the avoidance of tax. We account for 65% of global tax evasion of which £465Billion we know of. . Remaining part of the EU would have clawed some of that back for our country. So the leave campaign was backed by those very wealthy tax avoiders. It’s all publicly available information. Obviously the total figure of tax “evasion” is unknown but thought to be at least three times as much. " Are you not referring to tax planning and minimising tax liabilities as opposed to tax evasion. ( which is a criminal offence) Most people take action to minimise their tax liability. Any one paying into a pension fund is obtaining tax relief . The family of the great socialist Wedgewood Benn used a deed of variation ( which is entirely legal ) to reduce the inheritance tax liability of his estate and the Milligan family did something similar. We already collect very substantial sums from those who need to actively plan their tax affairs . A clamp down might simply mean that the UK loses the tax that they already collect from them. | |||
"Just my opinion. I think Boris made a mistake by not keeping the customs union. It was the only major difference to Mays deal. So he shouted hers down vigorously with this major change. We have to abide by the level playing field so can’t do anything dramatic about subsidies. There is no great benefit from being outside it. We are not going to set any major dramatic tariffs changes. Most of the deals we have are copycat EU deals. So very little in the way of benefits overall. However by staying in it. Banking would have kept key passports and the share trading along with the massive funds now sitting inside the EU banks. . Business would have had the same easy cheaper access to markets. Borders would be in place to stop free movement so anti immigrants brigade would be happy There would be no border in the Irish Sea or on the main island of Ireland. So not risk of the return to violence we now see. We have completely fucked up on the customs union opt out. This was all down to Boris sucking up to the extremists in his party. The level playing field thing is a joke we all know the Germans and particularly the French aren’t going to pay any attention to that from their side of the deal. Leaving the customs union was the only true Brexit." A ‘no deal’ was the only true Brexit, | |||
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"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. If that was true the majority would have been more like 80/20. Hi Emma Look up tax haven and the U.K.’ s leading role in the avoidance of tax. We account for 65% of global tax evasion of which £465Billion we know of. . Remaining part of the EU would have clawed some of that back for our country. So the leave campaign was backed by those very wealthy tax avoiders. It’s all publicly available information. Obviously the total figure of tax “evasion” is unknown but thought to be at least three times as much. Are you not referring to tax planning and minimising tax liabilities as opposed to tax evasion. ( which is a criminal offence) Most people take action to minimise their tax liability. Any one paying into a pension fund is obtaining tax relief . The family of the great socialist Wedgewood Benn used a deed of variation ( which is entirely legal ) to reduce the inheritance tax liability of his estate and the Milligan family did something similar. We already collect very substantial sums from those who need to actively plan their tax affairs . A clamp down might simply mean that the UK loses the tax that they already collect from them. " I’m talking about legal tax avoidance through things such as trust funds like the owners of JCB and the Daily mail owner. Wealth moved from country of income to a lower tax regime and in some instances no tax is paid. Non domicile tax free status should also be stopped. If you work in a factory you pay your fair share . If you earn hundreds of millions you pay less as a percentage so it is blatantly unfair. The world bank puts the known legal avoidance figure at £465Billion . £65% of which goes through U.K. controlled locations. Tax evasion ie illegal action is thought to be globally 3 times as much. But it’s a guess. Clamping down is only a win as they don’t pay the tax today ! So if they run away then we don’t lose anything but if they stay which is probable then we win. Tax haven status has to be under the control of a stable democracy so even Dubai’s tax free status doesn’t attract private funds that well. My view is they will stay . Even if it means they pay 20% they will still keep a lot of cash. I see Bidens going after global minimum tax rates for corporations so next will be individuals hopefully. | |||
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"The recent responses demonstrate all too well that Brexitology is fundamentally a one-dimensional concept. As a country, we need to get back to the concepts of evaluations, risk assessments and forward planning. It is absolutely normal to evaluate primary, secondary, additional, and latent consequences; and it is perfectly normal to consider how a particular action might impact other people. Brexit was never about that... "Should the United Kingdom stay in, or leave the EU?" The subsequent buccaneering format of campaigning was grotesque in its selfishness on one side and its meekness on the other side. Primarily though it was wrong that the full consequences to all parts of the UK and its neighbours were not part of the deeper dialogue.but do you accept brexit now tho lol As I have said many, many times on here. The vote to leave was significant enough to require the UK to significantly change its relationship with the UK. That could easily and quickly have been achieved without any necessity to cause the upheaval, tensions and inconveniences that are now facing this country. The current situation is the result of an ideological pursuit, not a sensible and pragmatic solution that would have been better for the overwhelming majority or ordinary people in this country. There is no point in asking me though... You should be asking the people who were lied to simply to get their support before they were cast aside as Brexit casualties... Fisherman, Unionists, Farmers, drop shippers - to name just a few. Tax dodgers, criminals.... Tax dodgers wanted Brexit I think you’ll find. So they are happy. If that was true the majority would have been more like 80/20. Hi Emma Look up tax haven and the U.K.’ s leading role in the avoidance of tax. We account for 65% of global tax evasion of which £465Billion we know of. . Remaining part of the EU would have clawed some of that back for our country. So the leave campaign was backed by those very wealthy tax avoiders. It’s all publicly available information. Obviously the total figure of tax “evasion” is unknown but thought to be at least three times as much. Are you not referring to tax planning and minimising tax liabilities as opposed to tax evasion. ( which is a criminal offence) Most people take action to minimise their tax liability. Any one paying into a pension fund is obtaining tax relief . The family of the great socialist Wedgewood Benn used a deed of variation ( which is entirely legal ) to reduce the inheritance tax liability of his estate and the Milligan family did something similar. We already collect very substantial sums from those who need to actively plan their tax affairs . A clamp down might simply mean that the UK loses the tax that they already collect from them. I’m talking about legal tax avoidance through things such as trust funds like the owners of JCB and the Daily mail owner. Wealth moved from country of income to a lower tax regime and in some instances no tax is paid. Non domicile tax free status should also be stopped. If you work in a factory you pay your fair share . If you earn hundreds of millions you pay less as a percentage so it is blatantly unfair. The world bank puts the known legal avoidance figure at £465Billion . £65% of which goes through U.K. controlled locations. Tax evasion ie illegal action is thought to be globally 3 times as much. But it’s a guess. Clamping down is only a win as they don’t pay the tax today ! So if they run away then we don’t lose anything but if they stay which is probable then we win. Tax haven status has to be under the control of a stable democracy so even Dubai’s tax free status doesn’t attract private funds that well. My view is they will stay . Even if it means they pay 20% they will still keep a lot of cash. I see Bidens going after global minimum tax rates for corporations so next will be individuals hopefully. " Biden's rationale on a minimum corperate tax rate is an interesting one, aa the ones that will get hurt the most are the Irish. All those American multi-nationals that put their EU/European bases in Ireland, on a promise of a 12.5% corporate tax rate, will surely kickback, as will Biden's forefathers, the Irish. | |||
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"I take it that if the UK had remained in the EU, then Sturgeon wouldnt be mithering for a referendum for Scottish independence? Or are we blaming her vociferousness on the subject solely on the UK leaving the EU? Which is it? They wanted independence long before brexit and if we had voted remain would still want it. What it has done is given them an excuse to ask for another Indy ref earlier than would otherwise be the case. At some point they were going to have another vote and if they don't win then another and another until they do win. Only the timing has changed" Exactly. Grasp the nettle (or thistle in this case!) and get it over with. We knew when the Brexit process started that it could and probably would take an age. What would be the timescale for a Scotland becoming completely independent? Presuming the rest of the UK doesnt bend over backwards to help the process. | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. " The empire - you looking at an old school map | |||
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"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be. Think you’ll find the EU will break up first anyway, protests daily on the streets of France, Spain, Greece etc " Yes I wonder who will be nest to exit the EU | |||
"What people are also not mentioning is that the republic also have to be consulted and I'm not sure they want to afford the cost of NI It’s not about cost. Same as it was never about cost when West Germany was reunited with East Germany. Northern Irish land is stolen land. Notwithstanding, Eire is booming and accumulating the stolen counties would not hurt in the longer term. It would be an investment in themselves." From the friends I have in the South,it is all about cost. Currently costs the UK government in the region of 13 billion a year to run Northern Ireland, the South simply cannot afford to take on this debt. | |||
"There was no reasoning at the time and still none now...so sad...almost in the blink of an eye we’ve become an international irrelevance. Any trade deal we make worth having will always be asymmetric. Almost leaves us feeling that only people under 30 should be allowed to vote in these matters as they’ll inherit this fiasco and it’s their futures being gambled with. You played dirtier Brexiters and won but history will prove it to be a phyrric victory " . The danger with only allowing people under 30 to vote is that they would have insufficient life experience to be able to make informed decisions. During the referendum all parties presented their side of the argument. Everyone had sufficient information to be able to make an informed decision . The arguments for and against were discussed endlessly on TV, in the press and on social media. On a simplistic basis we have simply amended a supply agreement which is something commercial organisations do regularly . We continue to trade with the EU as normal ( in most cases ) and the FTSE is at an all time high. I fail to see what we have to worry about- life goes on . | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly." | |||
" So you avoid the question on the size of the majority needed and you complain that brexit was ideological but scotland, NI and wales leaving isnt,more muddled one eyed thinking. You claim the uk leaving is bad economically well IF it is as you claimed then times it by ten if the regions leave the UK. The UK had a democratic vote, leave won, if any of the other countries do the same then that's democracy I answered the question about the majority in both this reply and the other one specifically about N Ireland. FWIW, the more complex the consequences of the question, the bigger the majority "should" be. There are two problems with that though - 1) If the consequences are glossed over and minimised, the actual consequences of any level of majority should not be the responsibility of ordinary people and 2) on that same theme, I wouldn't like to be the one deciding on N Ireland after what has happened recently. I have not said that Scotland, N Ireland and Wales leaving isn't ideological. Of course, it is. What is good for the Goose etc etc. Making Brexit so ideologically idiotic has just opened a pandora's box - another reason WHY the Brexit referendum should not have been conducted in the way that it was. I personally think that in the fullness of time, Brexit and the way that the referendum was constituted and the way that it was campaigned for (and against) will be seen as one of the most foolhardy courses of actions ever pursued by any British Government ever. I actually doubt that this country will have another referendum of this type ever again and I even think that the longer-term consequences of the UK breaking up will also result in big societal and governmental changes that could never have been foreseen. Unfortunately, some people still view things simply as "Leave the EU" - whereas the full consequences will impact the people and businesses of England, Wales, Scotland, N Ireland, Eire and the EU for decades to come. That was not written on the side of a bus. That's democracy. Sometimes your side wins sometimes it loses, if remaining was so great then blame the remain campaign for bring so shit, not leave, you sound like a football manager blaming the ref instead of admitting they played poorly. "From my other thread, you will see that the shit remainer campaign has carried on. The “rejoin the EU” London mayoral candidate has just said that he’s not expecting to win. Lol. Pathetic bunch of pound shop Lenins. | |||
"You'd be surprised how few of us English really care whether Scotland is in the Empire or not. If they want to go, go. Northern Ireland is a totally fake situation caused by Brussels creating an issue where there was none before. Not anything practical to do with Brexit. Wales, never going to happen, but again a lot of us don't really care anyway. I agree if the people of scotland, wales and N ireland want to go it alone that should be their choice it would be a shame but that's democracy for you. Odd isn’t it though... Only one country out of the EU decided to leave the EU and now that country is itself on the point of breaking up in part (at least) because of the decision to leave the EU. It doesn’t really take much imagination to think that maybe the full ramifications of leaving the EU and it’s potential effects to third nations and to international treaties should not perhaps have been decided in a referendum of the type that we had? Even if I were to accept the allegation that lies were told on both sides - is that still the way to make a decision that looks like having repercussions far, far beyond its actual purpose. This is actually quite serious what is going on now and some posters flippantly wishing away Scotland, N Ireland and potentially Wales is about as anti-British as anything could be. Think you’ll find the EU will break up first anyway, protests daily on the streets of France, Spain, Greece etc Yes I wonder who will be nest to exit the EU" Britain leading the world again | |||
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"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. " Plenty of countries are of a similar size and population to Scotland and of the Scots that I know, all (without exception) would welcome living in a more socially caring society. This is what taxes are for and countries like Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland and Eire manage quite well. Scotland is going - it’s just a matter of when. | |||
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"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. " A great post and a very realistic assessment of the situation. It is a pity people would just accept that there has already been a vote on the issue and those who want independence were firmly defeated. People from both Scotland and Northern Ireland are quite astute money wise. Deep down they know that in the case of Scotland they would be a lot worse off financially and in Northern Ireland why would people vote to have to pay for the health service. US firms are looking to move from expensive Dublin and a few German firms in the transportation and automotive sectors and investigating setting up operations in Northern Ireland. Investors are now cottoning on to the value that Northern Ireland offers. In March a Saudi Arabian buyer paid £87 million for the property housing PWCs new headquarters in Belfast setting a record for the City. Sometimes in life it is best to ignore those who shout the loudest and consider the silent majority. I cannot see a United Ireland or Scottish devolution anytime soon . Neither is financially viable and most people are not interested in politics. What matters is financial stability and family life . | |||
"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. A great post and a very realistic assessment of the situation. It is a pity people would just accept that there has already been a vote on the issue and those who want independence were firmly defeated. People from both Scotland and Northern Ireland are quite astute money wise. Deep down they know that in the case of Scotland they would be a lot worse off financially and in Northern Ireland why would people vote to have to pay for the health service. US firms are looking to move from expensive Dublin and a few German firms in the transportation and automotive sectors and investigating setting up operations in Northern Ireland. Investors are now cottoning on to the value that Northern Ireland offers. In March a Saudi Arabian buyer paid £87 million for the property housing PWCs new headquarters in Belfast setting a record for the City. Sometimes in life it is best to ignore those who shout the loudest and consider the silent majority. I cannot see a United Ireland or Scottish devolution anytime soon . Neither is financially viable and most people are not interested in politics. What matters is financial stability and family life . " So profits are now going to Saudi arabia , Instead of staying in the hands ofa belfast company . Great buisness ! | |||
"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. A great post and a very realistic assessment of the situation. It is a pity people would just accept that there has already been a vote on the issue and those who want independence were firmly defeated. People from both Scotland and Northern Ireland are quite astute money wise. Deep down they know that in the case of Scotland they would be a lot worse off financially and in Northern Ireland why would people vote to have to pay for the health service. US firms are looking to move from expensive Dublin and a few German firms in the transportation and automotive sectors and investigating setting up operations in Northern Ireland. Investors are now cottoning on to the value that Northern Ireland offers. In March a Saudi Arabian buyer paid £87 million for the property housing PWCs new headquarters in Belfast setting a record for the City. Sometimes in life it is best to ignore those who shout the loudest and consider the silent majority. I cannot see a United Ireland or Scottish devolution anytime soon . Neither is financially viable and most people are not interested in politics. What matters is financial stability and family life . So profits are now going to Saudi arabia , Instead of staying in the hands ofa belfast company . Great buisness !" However I think that many landlords of commercial property are UK based . Without knowing the Corporate structure of the Saudi Arabian business we would not know where the profits are spent or how they are taxed. The key point is that it is an illustration of the confidence of a Saudi Arabian business investing in Belfast. I cannot see many people objecting to that. Times have moved on. We operate in a global economy . You have to make the most of the opportunities available. Things are looking up for Northern Ireland. Official figures show 40 new foreign direct investment projects in. 2019 2020 , a 14 % rise outstripping the 4 % increase seen across the UK overall. Businesses have been attracted by Belfast rents at a fraction of those in London or Dublin , a younger skilled workforce and two Universities in Ulster and Queens with internationally recognised. IT and cyber security centres | |||
"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. A great post and a very realistic assessment of the situation. It is a pity people would just accept that there has already been a vote on the issue and those who want independence were firmly defeated. People from both Scotland and Northern Ireland are quite astute money wise. Deep down they know that in the case of Scotland they would be a lot worse off financially and in Northern Ireland why would people vote to have to pay for the health service. US firms are looking to move from expensive Dublin and a few German firms in the transportation and automotive sectors and investigating setting up operations in Northern Ireland. Investors are now cottoning on to the value that Northern Ireland offers. In March a Saudi Arabian buyer paid £87 million for the property housing PWCs new headquarters in Belfast setting a record for the City. Sometimes in life it is best to ignore those who shout the loudest and consider the silent majority. I cannot see a United Ireland or Scottish devolution anytime soon . Neither is financially viable and most people are not interested in politics. What matters is financial stability and family life . So profits are now going to Saudi arabia , Instead of staying in the hands ofa belfast company . Great buisness ! However I think that many landlords of commercial property are UK based . Without knowing the Corporate structure of the Saudi Arabian business we would not know where the profits are spent or how they are taxed. The key point is that it is an illustration of the confidence of a Saudi Arabian business investing in Belfast. I cannot see many people objecting to that. Times have moved on. We operate in a global economy . You have to make the most of the opportunities available. Things are looking up for Northern Ireland. Official figures show 40 new foreign direct investment projects in. 2019 2020 , a 14 % rise outstripping the 4 % increase seen across the UK overall. Businesses have been attracted by Belfast rents at a fraction of those in London or Dublin , a younger skilled workforce and two Universities in Ulster and Queens with internationally recognised. IT and cyber security centres " Operating in a Globa Society yet the UK left the worlds biggest trading bloc as well as the 2nd largest trade economy after the vote in 2016 . Seems very strange leaving that to then sell off everything to foreign investment . Thats not what i voted for . I voted for taking back control Not selling off at massive discounts to the wealthy buyers . The type of that murder Reporters in its embassies in a foreign country . | |||
"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. A great post and a very realistic assessment of the situation. It is a pity people would just accept that there has already been a vote on the issue and those who want independence were firmly defeated. People from both Scotland and Northern Ireland are quite astute money wise. Deep down they know that in the case of Scotland they would be a lot worse off financially and in Northern Ireland why would people vote to have to pay for the health service. US firms are looking to move from expensive Dublin and a few German firms in the transportation and automotive sectors and investigating setting up operations in Northern Ireland. Investors are now cottoning on to the value that Northern Ireland offers. In March a Saudi Arabian buyer paid £87 million for the property housing PWCs new headquarters in Belfast setting a record for the City. Sometimes in life it is best to ignore those who shout the loudest and consider the silent majority. I cannot see a United Ireland or Scottish devolution anytime soon . Neither is financially viable and most people are not interested in politics. What matters is financial stability and family life . So profits are now going to Saudi arabia , Instead of staying in the hands ofa belfast company . Great buisness ! However I think that many landlords of commercial property are UK based . Without knowing the Corporate structure of the Saudi Arabian business we would not know where the profits are spent or how they are taxed. The key point is that it is an illustration of the confidence of a Saudi Arabian business investing in Belfast. I cannot see many people objecting to that. Times have moved on. We operate in a global economy . You have to make the most of the opportunities available. Things are looking up for Northern Ireland. Official figures show 40 new foreign direct investment projects in. 2019 2020 , a 14 % rise outstripping the 4 % increase seen across the UK overall. Businesses have been attracted by Belfast rents at a fraction of those in London or Dublin , a younger skilled workforce and two Universities in Ulster and Queens with internationally recognised. IT and cyber security centres Operating in a Globa Society yet the UK left the worlds biggest trading bloc as well as the 2nd largest trade economy after the vote in 2016 . Seems very strange leaving that to then sell off everything to foreign investment . Thats not what i voted for . I voted for taking back control Not selling off at massive discounts to the wealthy buyers . The type of that murder Reporters in its embassies in a foreign country . " A private company sold some of its own property? What are you getting wound up about? Nationalise Everything! Revolution! Increase tractor production! Lol | |||
"Truth is this drive for independence is the work of socialists in Scotland and elsewhere. Socialists cannot abide others having more stuff than they have. Its a disgusting destructive attitude of those with less intelligence. Devolution has been a disaster in Scotland and for the UK. These parliaments need closed down and buried, and theres far more support for that than people realise. We all need less tiers of expensive wasteful governance, not more. Independence would see Scotland slide into a downward spiral of completely unaffordable debt, super austerity to have any chance of paying it back especially if we were back in the EU, be like Greece, but worse as we would need to go back to our own currency but wouldnt have one.. Youd see all the wealth shift south to England, which btw is already happening as many fear independence and higher taxes on assets.. independence for wales or Scotland would absolutely not improve any of the problems there are .. it would make money tighter and these problems very much worse. Everybody knows this. A great post and a very realistic assessment of the situation. It is a pity people would just accept that there has already been a vote on the issue and those who want independence were firmly defeated. People from both Scotland and Northern Ireland are quite astute money wise. Deep down they know that in the case of Scotland they would be a lot worse off financially and in Northern Ireland why would people vote to have to pay for the health service. US firms are looking to move from expensive Dublin and a few German firms in the transportation and automotive sectors and investigating setting up operations in Northern Ireland. Investors are now cottoning on to the value that Northern Ireland offers. In March a Saudi Arabian buyer paid £87 million for the property housing PWCs new headquarters in Belfast setting a record for the City. Sometimes in life it is best to ignore those who shout the loudest and consider the silent majority. I cannot see a United Ireland or Scottish devolution anytime soon . Neither is financially viable and most people are not interested in politics. What matters is financial stability and family life . So profits are now going to Saudi arabia , Instead of staying in the hands ofa belfast company . Great buisness ! However I think that many landlords of commercial property are UK based . Without knowing the Corporate structure of the Saudi Arabian business we would not know where the profits are spent or how they are taxed. The key point is that it is an illustration of the confidence of a Saudi Arabian business investing in Belfast. I cannot see many people objecting to that. Times have moved on. We operate in a global economy . You have to make the most of the opportunities available. Things are looking up for Northern Ireland. Official figures show 40 new foreign direct investment projects in. 2019 2020 , a 14 % rise outstripping the 4 % increase seen across the UK overall. Businesses have been attracted by Belfast rents at a fraction of those in London or Dublin , a younger skilled workforce and two Universities in Ulster and Queens with internationally recognised. IT and cyber security centres Operating in a Globa Society yet the UK left the worlds biggest trading bloc as well as the 2nd largest trade economy after the vote in 2016 . Seems very strange leaving that to then sell off everything to foreign investment . Thats not what i voted for . I voted for taking back control Not selling off at massive discounts to the wealthy buyers . The type of that murder Reporters in its embassies in a foreign country . A private company sold some of its own property? What are you getting wound up about? Nationalise Everything! Revolution! Increase tractor production! Lol " You not been knicked yet for riding around on a kiddie bike ? | |||
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