FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Who want to be a lorry driver?
Who want to be a lorry driver?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I've tried it snd the working conditions are shit.
Lack of decent facilities to stop overnight, no toilets, no washing facilities, dodgy people trying to nick stuff while asleep, people trying to open the doors...
Why can't the government at least make things easier for drivers? And i don't mean extending drivers hours..
Provide better facilities?
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It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
"
 i agree, plus the CPC is a joke! Some guys did the same module twice and was accepted, total money making piss take |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
i agree, plus the CPC is a joke! Some guys did the same module twice and was accepted, total money making piss take"
twice I wished did my 35 doing same core 5x7 hours hopefully finishing in January 27 yrs had enough |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
"
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night. |
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"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night."
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
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thanks to brexit, kent is fast becomming the envy of other countries with world beating lay-by's to shit in and fabulous segregated dual carriagways in which to spend several nights sleeping over in your cab. it's why the locals are thrilled to be kent |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
"
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"thanks to brexit, kent is fast becomming the envy of other countries with world beating lay-by's to shit in and fabulous segregated dual carriagways in which to spend several nights sleeping over in your cab. it's why the locals are thrilled to be kent "
Well those who voted for Brexit and live in Kent knew what they voted for so will welcome such positives. Not sure those who didn’t vote for Brexit are quite so happy. Ah well it’s good all positive outcomes across the board so far ..
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"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits. "
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from? 
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Well the government are talking about fast tracking drivers through tests etc..
But how long before they've had enough?
I lasted just over a year before I had enough.
I would have thought the government would have looked into the problem and correct things but looks like it will just be the same crap as usual |
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The HGV test is getting easier to do. Drop the age limit from 21 to 18 go straight for your class 1 and you are going to end up with the boy racer brigade in 44 ton trucks on cruise control sending messages on Facebook and Twitter to there mate's it's going to be carnage, I've been driving for 34 year's, my medical is due on January 23, not even bothering, going to work in a warehouse earning about the same money, don't have to live in a tin can and shit in the bushes, will miss the dogging opportunities though lol |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"The HGV test is getting easier to do. Drop the age limit from 21 to 18 go straight for your class 1 and you are going to end up with the boy racer brigade in 44 ton trucks on cruise control sending messages on Facebook and Twitter to there mate's it's going to be carnage, I've been driving for 34 year's, my medical is due on January 23, not even bothering, going to work in a warehouse earning about the same money, don't have to live in a tin can and shit in the bushes, will miss the dogging opportunities though lol "
Lol, yeah dogging opportunities, i don't miss shitting in bushes in the rain at minus 3 centigrade
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"The HGV test is getting easier to do. Drop the age limit from 21 to 18 go straight for your class 1 and you are going to end up with the boy racer brigade in 44 ton trucks on cruise control sending messages on Facebook and Twitter to there mate's it's going to be carnage, I've been driving for 34 year's, my medical is due on January 23, not even bothering, going to work in a warehouse earning about the same money, don't have to live in a tin can and shit in the bushes, will miss the dogging opportunities though lol "
Hopefully not jamming up maccys drive thru with a rig and trailer what a sight thou. |
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"The HGV test is getting easier to do. Drop the age limit from 21 to 18 go straight for your class 1 and you are going to end up with the boy racer brigade in 44 ton trucks on cruise control sending messages on Facebook and Twitter to there mate's it's going to be carnage, I've been driving for 34 year's, my medical is due on January 23, not even bothering, going to work in a warehouse earning about the same money, don't have to live in a tin can and shit in the bushes, will miss the dogging opportunities though lol
Lol, yeah dogging opportunities, i don't miss shitting in bushes in the rain at minus 3 centigrade . Minus 3, try Scotland in a January, your piss near freezes before it hits the floor lol.
"
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And you've got our traffic officer's, VOSA. The fines they dish out are astronomical, the slightest thing and your looking at a week's wages to cover it. Even for minor offences they just don't care, it's not road safety, it's money making to condone there jobs. WANKERS |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Well the government are talking about fast tracking drivers through tests etc..
But how long before they've had enough?
I lasted just over a year before I had enough.
I would have thought the government would have looked into the problem and correct things but looks like it will just be the same crap as usual "
According the recruiter agency juice they’ve estimated that by 2025 due to the age of existing drivers another 105,000 drivers will have retired so even at the ridiculous 50000 tests a year they are claiming, and assuming everyone passes and wants to drive a truck it’s going to be a few years before the gap closes.
It’s not about tests and I agree the crap corner cutting and dumbing down is just madness. it’s about how shit the job is. The pay increases won’t be sustainable and eventually when they work out how crap it is they will be off. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
"
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice. |
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trouble is back bone of the country jobs, manual jobs are treated like donkeys, while pen pushing jobs seem to be deemed more important. Are they? really? coz you can write what you like but no drivers and no food..... thunder dome! |
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"I've tried it snd the working conditions are shit.
Lack of decent facilities to stop overnight, no toilets, no washing facilities, dodgy people trying to nick stuff while asleep, people trying to open the doors...
Why can't the government at least make things easier for drivers? And i don't mean extending drivers hours..
Provide better facilities?
"
I wouldn't do it. I knew a lorry driver on an occasional basis for about a year. He had two divorces behind him. Frankly, the job broke him - but he stuck with it because it was all he knew.
In many ways, his life was not his own - and he didn't even have the comfort of a home he could spend much time in.
It doesn't surprise me that the current government's answer is to ease training requirements, rather than insist on improved conditions.
Lorry drivers get fucked over the same way farmers do - because the rest of us want everything as cheap as we can possibly have it. |
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"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice. "
100% agree. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice. "
I saw GIST offering a retention bonus of £5000 yesterday.
Is there anything stopping the logistics giants/supermarkets building overnight truck stops for their drivers?
Is increased choice in the supermarkets part of the problem? Do we need french beer, or the thousands of varities of tomato sauce? Our parents never had that choice, and they did ok. The green effect must be horrendous. Maybe its one aspect of our life we need to look at. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice.
I saw GIST offering a retention bonus of £5000 yesterday.
Is there anything stopping the logistics giants/supermarkets building overnight truck stops for their drivers?
Is increased choice in the supermarkets part of the problem? Do we need french beer, or the thousands of varities of tomato sauce? Our parents never had that choice, and they did ok. The green effect must be horrendous. Maybe its one aspect of our life we need to look at. "
Valid point about the varieties but if you remove choice you increase the power and therefore price of good.
There are no logistics giants in the U.K. it’s may say DHL on the truck but chances are it’s a subcontractor.
The really big firms with 5-8,000 trucks each are on the continent. Even if they wanted to build them there isn’t enough money to do so.
It needs government to insist new main roads bypasses etc building plans include facilities and every town over say 5000 people must have parking, toilets showers etc for at least some trucks.
The lack of facilities is terrible. We used to work with a lots of continental factories, logistics companies and they have showers for visiting drivers. When is that even discussed during the development of a U.K. built factory?
Years of not bothering with the poor driver have lead us to this. The Brexit rules have just exposed it even more. |
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I used to drive 26 ton bin lorries and money was pretty basic plus the stress of reversing into cul de sac on dark mornings. No wonder they are leaving for richer pickings ( this is Paul here by the way ) |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I used to drive 26 ton bin lorries and money was pretty basic plus the stress of reversing into cul de sac on dark mornings. No wonder they are leaving for richer pickings ( this is Paul here by the way )"
I left for the reasons above, the cherry on top was people lurking about in the dark upto no good, breaking/ slashing into trailers, trying the cab doors, how could I get decent rest with thst going on. Pay was good but conditions were terrible. |
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I drove class1 in 2000 and earned 35g a year. Thanks to Blairs cheap European drivers was still on 35g in 2010. Firms struggling for drivers need to pay more and general public accept driving 44 tons of artic is a skilled job |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
When a manufacturing company is not making money the directors look at where they can make efficiencies and save costs. Due to the low standards and ability of some Directors in this country they decide let’s tell the hauliers we want a 10% cut . Problem solved.
They imposed cuts as many hauliers were small family firms years ago and relied on limited work. The customers are now paying the price for their simpleton thinking.
Lack of investment and downward pressure on rates over the last 30 years has lead to transport being a Cinderella industry but without any fairy godmothers.
In the late 80s we charged £2.5k for a full load from Manchester to Stuttgart ( automotive client) . Rates plummeted down to just under €1k we refused the work. They are €1.5k ish today thirty years later.
That’s down to the loss of manufacturing in the U.K. and the drop in exports meaning empty trucks competing for less and less traffic along with industry wanting to sell cheaper and cheaper throw away products. That put paid to our international trucking industry.
Domestically this whole problem is down to lack of investment in infrastructure , good working terms and conditions, farcical lack of investment in the financial stability of transport and governments hell bent on selling housing over truck stops or motorway services. Look at every new industrial estate. Where’s the truck parking? It should be mandatory for the developers to provide parking and basic facilities.
The drivers from the EU didn’t offer cheap labour or hold down prices. The industry is historically a family affair run by enthusiasts not businessmen . They were basically bullied.
Today’s leading logistics companies are mostly freight managers not transport companies so they just don’t give a rats arse about drivers.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I drove class1 in 2000 and earned 35g a year. Thanks to Blairs cheap European drivers was still on 35g in 2010. Firms struggling for drivers need to pay more and general public accept driving 44 tons of artic is a skilled job"
How much do you think you should have been paid in 2010? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I drove class1 in 2000 and earned 35g a year. Thanks to Blairs cheap European drivers was still on 35g in 2010. Firms struggling for drivers need to pay more and general public accept driving 44 tons of artic is a skilled job
How much do you think you should have been paid in 2010? "
For me the pay was ok, it was the work conditions |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I drove class1 in 2000 and earned 35g a year. Thanks to Blairs cheap European drivers was still on 35g in 2010. Firms struggling for drivers need to pay more and general public accept driving 44 tons of artic is a skilled job
How much do you think you should have been paid in 2010?
For me the pay was ok, it was the work conditions "
Tbh, 35 k in 2000 & 2010 is very good, but the conditions do sound terrible , I can’t see it being a long term job |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice.
I saw GIST offering a retention bonus of £5000 yesterday.
Is there anything stopping the logistics giants/supermarkets building overnight truck stops for their drivers?
Is increased choice in the supermarkets part of the problem? Do we need french beer, or the thousands of varities of tomato sauce? Our parents never had that choice, and they did ok. The green effect must be horrendous. Maybe its one aspect of our life we need to look at.
Valid point about the varieties but if you remove choice you increase the power and therefore price of good.
There are no logistics giants in the U.K. it’s may say DHL on the truck but chances are it’s a subcontractor.
The really big firms with 5-8,000 trucks each are on the continent. Even if they wanted to build them there isn’t enough money to do so.
It needs government to insist new main roads bypasses etc building plans include facilities and every town over say 5000 people must have parking, toilets showers etc for at least some trucks.
The lack of facilities is terrible. We used to work with a lots of continental factories, logistics companies and they have showers for visiting drivers. When is that even discussed during the development of a U.K. built factory?
Years of not bothering with the poor driver have lead us to this. The Brexit rules have just exposed it even more. "
Funny how the whole continent is having trouble with drivers if their facilities are so much better or could it just be the pandemic?
Poland: According to Ti estimates, the shortage in Poland in 2020 is around 124,000 drivers. According to IRU, Poland is one of the most heavily impacted European countries and driver shortage in 2020 stands at around 37%.
UK: The shortfall of truck drivers in 2020 is estimated at 60,000-76,000. The RHA estimates that there is currently a shortfall of about 60,000 hauliers in the UK. According to data from the Q2 Labour Force Survey for 2020, the calculated shortfall is even higher than RHA estimates and stands at around 76,000.
Germany: Between 45,000 and 60,000 truck drivers are ‘missing’ in 2020 in the German market alone, according to the DSLV and BGL, and this number is only increasing. The IRU predicts a gap of 185,000 drivers by 2027 in Germany.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice.
I saw GIST offering a retention bonus of £5000 yesterday.
Is there anything stopping the logistics giants/supermarkets building overnight truck stops for their drivers?
Is increased choice in the supermarkets part of the problem? Do we need french beer, or the thousands of varities of tomato sauce? Our parents never had that choice, and they did ok. The green effect must be horrendous. Maybe its one aspect of our life we need to look at.
Valid point about the varieties but if you remove choice you increase the power and therefore price of good.
There are no logistics giants in the U.K. it’s may say DHL on the truck but chances are it’s a subcontractor.
The really big firms with 5-8,000 trucks each are on the continent. Even if they wanted to build them there isn’t enough money to do so.
It needs government to insist new main roads bypasses etc building plans include facilities and every town over say 5000 people must have parking, toilets showers etc for at least some trucks.
The lack of facilities is terrible. We used to work with a lots of continental factories, logistics companies and they have showers for visiting drivers. When is that even discussed during the development of a U.K. built factory?
Years of not bothering with the poor driver have lead us to this. The Brexit rules have just exposed it even more. Funny how the whole continent is having trouble with drivers if their facilities are so much better or could it just be the pandemic?
Poland: According to Ti estimates, the shortage in Poland in 2020 is around 124,000 drivers. According to IRU, Poland is one of the most heavily impacted European countries and driver shortage in 2020 stands at around 37%.
UK: The shortfall of truck drivers in 2020 is estimated at 60,000-76,000. The RHA estimates that there is currently a shortfall of about 60,000 hauliers in the UK. According to data from the Q2 Labour Force Survey for 2020, the calculated shortfall is even higher than RHA estimates and stands at around 76,000.
Germany: Between 45,000 and 60,000 truck drivers are ‘missing’ in 2020 in the German market alone, according to the DSLV and BGL, and this number is only increasing. The IRU predicts a gap of 185,000 drivers by 2027 in Germany.
"
IRU were predicting Poland was going to jump from 22pc shortage in 2019 to 37pc. That was in march 2020 which I think is where your number comes from. So that isn't a covid gap but structural. No idea what it is now... May have closed if ppl have gone back.
There's been a lorry driver shortage for years. We've probably just not really seen it but may have gone past the breaking point.
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It's the pedantic laws that are also attached to it.
When they Introduced the driver CPC it was clearly a revenue earner.
Fines for just about anything you can think of. Wages are utterly disgraceful. Why would you put yourself through the hassle and grief.
The Haulage industry f**ked itself in the early 2000's, by employing foreign driver's for a minimum wage.
Some indipendant hauliers are doing everything they can to keep driver's, but its too late.
We employed foreign drivers around that time on the same wage as U.K. drivers with the full approval of the union so your comment is not true.
The problems stemmed from the fuel tax increases crippling profits ( airlines and buses were given discounts) and the unbelievable pressure from supermarkets and large retailers to cut costs across the board.
In the first year of the introduction of financial penalties one well known DIY chain raised £7m from hauliers after fining trucks for being late whatever the reason. I sold off our logistics around that time as the returns on investment were shocking. There was no profiteering on cheap labour so that’s just a myth peddled by people who are against immigration.
The admittedly poor wages, total lack of facilities, combined with the draconian laws and lack of respect for the drivers is why the industry is losing drivers in their thousands. Who wants to sleep in a lay bye without a shower or toilets night after night.
It was synonymous by Operators.
Why pay a UK driver top dollar to to a specific job when you can save money and outsource a foreign driver for less to perform the same task.
It's effective cost cutting.
Supply and demand is your fundamental argument.
Even before Brexit there was a large driver shortage so with your argument all the drivers would be on over £100k per year before Brexit. The fact that they are not tells you all you need to know regarding bringing in cheap labour.
It’s nonsense. The money is not in the industry.
Warehousing, pick and pack along with add on services can make money but just running trucks is poor profit territory.
The Stobbart family sold Eddie’s Trucking business but not the property and land bank. If trucking made such great profits why would they off load such a well known brand?
Driving is poorly paid that’s the fault of everyone wanting cheaper goods and logistics being the easiest solution chosen by the industry manufacturing giants. A race to the bottom all the way.
There are a few exceptions as in all industry types but the vast majority make very small profits.
Where are you pulling this 100G a year from?
I’m not and neither are the drivers which is the point. Foreign drivers haven’t undercut U.K. drivers. There’s always been a shortage and if there was money in the industry the wages would have increased to try and attract more drivers. The supermarkets are offering bonus joining fees of £1000. That’s just a pathetic amount from such wealthy companies and it’s just cheaper than paying for new starters to be trained to drive trucks.. The problem is the hauliers losing drivers to the supermarkets are the hauliers that supply the supermarket depots. Just short sighted stupidity. The supermarkets need to mask the empty shelves so expect to see more bulk crap on shelves but less and less choice.
I saw GIST offering a retention bonus of £5000 yesterday.
Is there anything stopping the logistics giants/supermarkets building overnight truck stops for their drivers?
Is increased choice in the supermarkets part of the problem? Do we need french beer, or the thousands of varities of tomato sauce? Our parents never had that choice, and they did ok. The green effect must be horrendous. Maybe its one aspect of our life we need to look at.
Valid point about the varieties but if you remove choice you increase the power and therefore price of good.
There are no logistics giants in the U.K. it’s may say DHL on the truck but chances are it’s a subcontractor.
The really big firms with 5-8,000 trucks each are on the continent. Even if they wanted to build them there isn’t enough money to do so.
It needs government to insist new main roads bypasses etc building plans include facilities and every town over say 5000 people must have parking, toilets showers etc for at least some trucks.
The lack of facilities is terrible. We used to work with a lots of continental factories, logistics companies and they have showers for visiting drivers. When is that even discussed during the development of a U.K. built factory?
Years of not bothering with the poor driver have lead us to this. The Brexit rules have just exposed it even more. Funny how the whole continent is having trouble with drivers if their facilities are so much better or could it just be the pandemic?
Poland: According to Ti estimates, the shortage in Poland in 2020 is around 124,000 drivers. According to IRU, Poland is one of the most heavily impacted European countries and driver shortage in 2020 stands at around 37%.
UK: The shortfall of truck drivers in 2020 is estimated at 60,000-76,000. The RHA estimates that there is currently a shortfall of about 60,000 hauliers in the UK. According to data from the Q2 Labour Force Survey for 2020, the calculated shortfall is even higher than RHA estimates and stands at around 76,000.
Germany: Between 45,000 and 60,000 truck drivers are ‘missing’ in 2020 in the German market alone, according to the DSLV and BGL, and this number is only increasing. The IRU predicts a gap of 185,000 drivers by 2027 in Germany.
"
Yes and wages in Poland were lower so drivers moved abroad and particularly to the U.K. which helped plug some of the gap. The shortage is Europe wide . Ukraine drivers were also filling the gap until Germany complained about drivers sleeping in trucks over weekends and insisted on hotels. What sort of hotels would you think were on offer?. I can tell you it wasn’t Hilton.
Our shortage is now is getting worse due to Brexit and now the average age of U.K. drivers will impact. Looking like 100k plus will retire or leave by 2025. More good news.
Polish workers are known to be moving home as Poland’s economy is growing. Being so close to and part of that big EU market is obviously nothing but bad news. |
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