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18% of Brits think Brexit is going well

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)

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By *ovebjsMan  over a year ago

Bristol


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

We all know how reliable polls are

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By *leasure domMan  over a year ago

Edinburgh

The surprise is that only 53 percent think it is going badly.

Total disaster, which should have caused this ghastly, incompetent and corrupt government to fall. That this has not happened, is a poor verdict on the effectiveness of labour.

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley

You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

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By *alking HeadMan  over a year ago

Bolton


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll. "

I dont know anybody that has. Or anyone that knows anyone that has.

Im always a bit wary of the views of people who are happy to answer questions in the street. Anyone that tries it with me gets lied to. Big fat woppers. I cant stop myself.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

I dont know anybody that has. Or anyone that knows anyone that has.

Im always a bit wary of the views of people who are happy to answer questions in the street. Anyone that tries it with me gets lied to. Big fat woppers. I cant stop myself. "

These polls are done online. The risk of you being stopped in the street is, as far as I can tell, zero.

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By *mateur100Man  over a year ago

nr faversham


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

So, your point is????

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By *isandhers691127Couple  over a year ago

Bournemouth

18% of the population like to queue

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By *alking HeadMan  over a year ago

Bolton


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

I dont know anybody that has. Or anyone that knows anyone that has.

Im always a bit wary of the views of people who are happy to answer questions in the street. Anyone that tries it with me gets lied to. Big fat woppers. I cant stop myself.

These polls are done online. The risk of you being stopped in the street is, as far as I can tell, zero."

So if its online, are people volunteering to be surveyed? I think that would give even weirder views!

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By *V-AliceTV/TS  over a year ago

Ayr


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

Given who set YouGov up, that has to be a bit disappointing for them.

Anyway, 43% think it's going well - that's the percentage of the popular vote the Tories got in the last GE, in order to "Get Brexit Done."

They've invested in it; so, unless a large number of them have changed their minds, I doubt if this poll is accurate.

Brexit may well be a whole clip to the foot, rather than one shot; but don't tell people they didn't know what they were voting for.

They did. Or, if they didn't, you're not allowed to point out the fact.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)

Given who set YouGov up, that has to be a bit disappointing for them.

Anyway, 43% think it's going well - that's the percentage of the popular vote the Tories got in the last GE, in order to "Get Brexit Done."

They've invested in it; so, unless a large number of them have changed their minds, I doubt if this poll is accurate.

Brexit may well be a whole clip to the foot, rather than one shot; but don't tell people they didn't know what they were voting for.

They did. Or, if they didn't, you're not allowed to point out the fact."

It's always amusing when a yougov poll backfires on its founder.

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By *ornucopiaMan  over a year ago

Bexley

Brexit is currently going extremely well or the small family run petrol station in my road which has always had a steady flow of 'couldn't care less what the price is' customers for as long as I have known it.

Now they have queues from 7am to 7pm and have the highest prices this side of motorway services. They don't seem to have to wait more than half a day for their tanker to replenish them.

I would imagine they are laughing all the way to the Bank of Baroda (or similar). Brexit, what Brexit?

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By *abioMan  over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

I dont know anybody that has. Or anyone that knows anyone that has.

Im always a bit wary of the views of people who are happy to answer questions in the street. Anyone that tries it with me gets lied to. Big fat woppers. I cant stop myself. "

I have……..

It’s one of those those things you register for….. and then they set up meetings for focus groups or arrange telephone interviews

Actually the amount of political questions I’ve been as in a poll are rare… they tend to be on other topics, the one I remember best was on chocolate because they passed around samples!!!! Lol

they try to get as many diverse people in the population as possible … it’s actually really interesting

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By *bernathCouple  over a year ago

Gloucestershire

I think some people refuse that the world they wanted is not all rainbows and unicorns as promised. Too proud to admit they were wrong. Pride makes it easy to ignore doubt you see, of course they will deny it, make some excuse up, give you a billion reasons why it isn’t the actual reason.

I think that is the male mentality in general though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

A quote that always seems relevant when it comes so certain supporters of Brexit:

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled."

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By *bernathCouple  over a year ago

Gloucestershire


"A quote that always seems relevant when it comes so certain supporters of Brexit:

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.""

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Pretty much sums up the current situation, alot of “shame on me” going around.

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By *uninlondon69Man  over a year ago

Lewisham

They don't do shame.

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By *bernathCouple  over a year ago

Gloucestershire


"They don't do shame."

They hide it really well then!

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By *fucksakeCouple  over a year ago

cuffilly


"18% of the population like to queue "
18% are thick as shit.

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By *lutforgirlsWoman  over a year ago

sutton-in-asgfield


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

Let me guess a poll done by the remoaners conducted by asking fellow remoaners

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

18% have smug grins

53% have bottom lip quiver

21% have nothing to say

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)

Let me guess a poll done by the remoaners conducted by asking fellow remoaners "

One of the founders of Yougov was Zahawi, Tory MP and cabinet member. Sounds like a real remoaner, doesn't he?

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By *ungblackbullMan  over a year ago

scotland


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll. "

you probably never studied beyond o level maths either...

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By *ebbie69Couple  over a year ago

milton keynes


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

you probably never studied beyond o level maths either..."

I never been part of a yougov poll either but had no idea it depends on your maths results

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By *astlincscoupleCouple  over a year ago

Tinsel Town


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

you probably never studied beyond o level maths either..."

The irrelevance is strong in this post

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

you probably never studied beyond o level maths either..."

Oh my, now now trigonometry is not my thing but I can work out your angle by your measured response to my point of fact.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

To be honest it has not been as bad as I had feared. Voted remain and expected near armageddon. Covid provided some good air cover for the govt in terms of fallout. But on the whole the post Brexit car crash has not been as has as I expected. Still early days but am much more optimistic now. Onwards and upwards!

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"You know what I have never been asked questions for a yougov poll.

you probably never studied beyond o level maths either...

Oh my, now now trigonometry is not my thing but I can work out your angle by your measured response to my point of fact."

Nice reply.

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By *irtylittletramp100TV/TS  over a year ago

Notts


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

Survey was in lib dem bar

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

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By *ony 2016Man  over a year ago

Huddersfield /derby cinemas


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

. ,,,, ,,,,,, I wonder if there was a follow up question to the 18% , ? Asking them to name 3 benefits of brexit

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By *sussexyMan  over a year ago

Lewes


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4). ,,,, ,,,,,, I wonder if there was a follow up question to the 18% , ? Asking them to name 3 benefits of brexit "

.. and then fact checking their answers

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By *eanoCoolMan  over a year ago

wisbech


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong. "

Did they?, what all 52% of them?, or is this just your personal opinion of how and why you think 52% of the population voted the way they did. You see i know someone in my family who voted for Brexit and the reason they decided to vote how they did is not remotely connected to your statement.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong. "
I guess you dont know many who voted to leave then going by your perception of what people voted for.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Provide me 3 of your rationale reasoning why brexit was sensible. That excludes immigration and sovereignty.

I’m all ears haha


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong. I guess you dont know many who voted to leave then going by your perception of what people voted for. "

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Please share what their reasoning was. And also your opinion whether that reason was rationale or ideological/ emotional in your view.


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

Did they?, what all 52% of them?, or is this just your personal opinion of how and why you think 52% of the population voted the way they did. You see i know someone in my family who voted for Brexit and the reason they decided to vote how they did is not remotely connected to your statement."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

Did they?, what all 52% of them?, or is this just your personal opinion of how and why you think 52% of the population voted the way they did. You see i know someone in my family who voted for Brexit and the reason they decided to vote how they did is not remotely connected to your statement."

Sorry to pedantic but not 52% of the population but 52% of those who voted.

Which raises the theory that those who didn’t vote remain didn’t believe we would be so stupid or didn’t feel strongly enough to vote leave. I’m assuming they didn’t care or were happy with the status quo so didn’t need to vote. If you’re happy sitting on the chair you don’t try and fix it or chop of a leg because you can,, you just sit and enjoy the chair happy to continue.

Judging by how it’s all going we looked to have chopped off two out of the four legs.

Still blue passports made in Poland. Winning.

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By *eanoCoolMan  over a year ago

wisbech


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

Did they?, what all 52% of them?, or is this just your personal opinion of how and why you think 52% of the population voted the way they did. You see i know someone in my family who voted for Brexit and the reason they decided to vote how they did is not remotely connected to your statement.

Sorry to pedantic but not 52% of the population but 52% of those who voted.

Which raises the theory that those who didn’t vote remain didn’t believe we would be so stupid or didn’t feel strongly enough to vote leave. I’m assuming they didn’t care or were happy with the status quo so didn’t need to vote. If you’re happy sitting on the chair you don’t try and fix it or chop of a leg because you can,, you just sit and enjoy the chair happy to continue.

Judging by how it’s all going we looked to have chopped off two out of the four legs.

Still blue passports made in Poland. Winning. "

Well it looks like using your analogy that some were happy sitting on the chair still and others wanted a different chair i guess.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

And how does that chair feel? Comfortable, haha

Well it looks like using your analogy that some were happy sitting on the chair still and others wanted a different chair i guess.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha "
It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.


"It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. "

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. "

if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/10/21 12:00:30]

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

It’s interesting you fail to provide an explanation rationale or otherwise why Brexit wasn’t about immigration. Clearly your point further supports my view. So thank you.

Perhaps you’d try again and explain the top 3 rationale reasons why brexit wasn’t about immigration or sovereignty.


" if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing. "

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester

The problem we had, was instead of actively being involved in the direction of the EU our media slated it and the likes of farage just abused their position for their own aims not that of the U.K.

We have less control as a country than ever because our voice is now quieter across the world. The EU watered down the power of our extreme end to end politics and gave us central even ground to move forward. What we have now is an extreme and elitist controlled government in power who only have a third of the country’s votes and yet they are untouchable. That’s not democracy at work. Two thirds of this country’s votes count for nothing . In the EU they did.

Sovereignty and taking back control is spouted a lot but what we’ve actually done is concentrate yet more power in the backers of the Tory party. The MPs greed ( some in labour too I agree ) makes sure they tow the party line first and above any constituency need.

Note there is no mention ever of a fairer tax system from this government of any real substance.

I picked this below at random. I know the city council is in trouble but this sums up the bullshit.

Northampton Tory MP praising government generosity for a bonus payment of £27m given to Northampton council.

And yet

NHS Digital data shows Northamptonshire spent £219.9 million on adult social care in 2019/20.

After adjusting for inflation, that was a real-terms cut of £28.6 million, or 11.5 per cent, compared to 2010-11, when spending stood at £248.5 million.

So government cuts at a rate of £20 - £28m A YEAR but whoopee the council get £27m back on a one off payment.

We are being conned into thinking they care. They don’t.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"It’s interesting you fail to provide an explanation rationale or otherwise why Brexit wasn’t about immigration. Clearly your point further supports my view. So thank you.

Perhaps you’d try again and explain the top 3 rationale reasons why brexit wasn’t about immigration or sovereignty.

if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing. "

Obviously you dont have the ability to understand what i have said i cant put it any plainer sorry.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing. "

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘?

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? "

No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Because you don’t have a good reason. But good try by dodging a frankly straight forward question. Those who can do. Those who can’t, dodge the question. You’d make a good politician .


"It’s interesting you fail to provide an explanation rationale or otherwise why Brexit wasn’t about immigration. Clearly your point further supports my view. So thank you.

Perhaps you’d try again and explain the top 3 rationale reasons why brexit wasn’t about immigration or sovereignty.

if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing. Obviously you dont have the ability to understand what i have said i cant put it any plainer sorry."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law. "

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/10/21 12:46:08]

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? "

who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The UK pulled out of the EU on 1st Jan 2020.


"? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law. "

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"The UK pulled out of the EU on 1st Jan 2020.

? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law. "

Well done what happened next in march?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down. "

What type of jobs then? Explain

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

We will find Brexiteers will play dumb, in any debate we have here. And that bufoonery comes from Bogus Johnson.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

What type of jobs then? Explain "

plenty of jobs in IT, Finance and banking, teaching, health care, gaming developers, pharmacy just to name a few .

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"We will find Brexiteers will play dumb, in any debate we have here. And that bufoonery comes from Bogus Johnson. "
you seem very judgemental, so what happened in march that would have stopped recruitment and travel or are you now playing dumb?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

What type of jobs then? Explain plenty of jobs in IT, Finance and banking, teaching, health care, gaming developers, pharmacy just to name a few ."

So those jobs won’t be going to British workers but are now we have left the EU are more likely to go to black and Asian workers? Interesting

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

What type of jobs then? Explain plenty of jobs in IT, Finance and banking, teaching, health care, gaming developers, pharmacy just to name a few .

So those jobs won’t be going to British workers but are now we have left the EU are more likely to go to black and Asian workers? Interesting "

Thats not how the visa system works but im sure you are not that stupid to know that.

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By *irldnCouple  over a year ago

Brighton

Brexit is a shitshow. It will continue to be a shitshow for years. People have voted to make the majority of people in the UK poorer while a tiny minority will get richer. Well done. Seriously, well done!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

What type of jobs then? Explain plenty of jobs in IT, Finance and banking, teaching, health care, gaming developers, pharmacy just to name a few .

So those jobs won’t be going to British workers but are now we have left the EU are more likely to go to black and Asian workers? Interesting Thats not how the visa system works but im sure you are not that stupid to know that."

I want to know why these jobs won’t be going to British workers? And why black and Asian workers were being denied the chance to work here before Brexit

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

What type of jobs then? Explain plenty of jobs in IT, Finance and banking, teaching, health care, gaming developers, pharmacy just to name a few .

So those jobs won’t be going to British workers but are now we have left the EU are more likely to go to black and Asian workers? Interesting Thats not how the visa system works but im sure you are not that stupid to know that.

I want to know why these jobs won’t be going to British workers? And why black and Asian workers were being denied the chance to work here before Brexit "

im not playing you stupid game of tennis i suggest you swat up on why a work visa is issued and the free movement before brexit it will answer all your questions im really suprised i thought you was better informed than that.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Please tell me why you voted?

Unless you don’t have a rationale reason.

It amuses me how brexiteers getting slapped in the face with a wet fish, will deny getting slapped by a wet fish ! Haha It also amuses me how remainers presume they know why everyone voted. if you was a regular on here mate you would know why, i have explained it numerous times and it certainly wasn't to keep foreigners out and white Britain first.

In fact voting leave was doing the opposite with the visa system the uk will have more black and Asian qualified workers rather than mostly white (entitled by their location) Europeans.So that blows your theory out of the water and actually makes remainers look like what you are describing.

Britain will have more black & Asian qualified workers ? Can you prove that ‘statement ‘? No how can i when its not happened yet? the point is people from the eu will now have to compete for visa,s and people from Africa and asia will have the same opportunity to get a job as them rather than the entitlement of eu law.

What type of jobs are you referring to? Why would anyone from Africa and Asia come over here to drive a HGV? who said anything about hgv,s ? is that the scope of jobs you think the uk has to offer no wonder you are so down.

What type of jobs then? Explain plenty of jobs in IT, Finance and banking, teaching, health care, gaming developers, pharmacy just to name a few .

So those jobs won’t be going to British workers but are now we have left the EU are more likely to go to black and Asian workers? Interesting Thats not how the visa system works but im sure you are not that stupid to know that.

I want to know why these jobs won’t be going to British workers? And why black and Asian workers were being denied the chance to work here before Brexit im not playing you stupid game of tennis i suggest you swat up on why a work visa is issued and the free movement before brexit it will answer all your questions im really suprised i thought you was better informed than that."

So you don’t know? Fair enough

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong. "

I voted out but not because I care about immigration or a “mislead belief” of sovereignty.

I voted out because I saw what had happened to Southern Europe (Greece, Spain, Portugal etc) after the financial crisis and I realised that the European Union would rather destroy those economies than allow Germany to take a hit as their banks were so overexposed to debt in those countries. I found it hard to reconcile the “spirit” of Europe with the fact that, when push came to shove, money talked.

The problem for the EU is that they have created a currency that only works if there is one government. I don’t think that is viable in Europe given the history and so I believe that it is ultimately doomed. Better to get out now and take a large hit than have no life raft when the Euro collapses.

My argument obviously falls down if you think the Euro is a viable currency and that the EU is good at managing crises. I don’t but I guess if you voted to remain then you do believe that.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham

I also thought the economy, particularly in London, had gotten over reliant on low price labour which was undermining the income and long term training prospects of British working class people. It worked for me as I am reasonably well payed and don’t have much price competition but many of my friends who I grew up with were not so lucky and their lives seemed much harder than mine. The fact that we are now struggling with labour and skills shortages feels like my fears were valid although I don’t think anyone has actually bothered to help retrain people. Maybe the current pain we are feeling will encourage companies to put abit more effort into their longer term hiring and training strategies. Or they could just keep complaining that all the cheap labour has disappeared

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/10/21 13:26:59]

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The EU bailed out those poor economies of Southern Europe and let’s not forget Ireland too. And they would bail out the UK too, if that were to happen, when in the EU.

I don’t understand why you have this misinformation that Germany would take a hit: please explain . I don’t think you will be able to.

The UK is in worse economic shape then it’s been in a very long time. Our economy compared to other nations sucks.

Brexiteers have been fooled and need to smell the coffee. Oops sorry, we don’t have enough EU staff to make us a coffee.


"I also thought the economy, particularly in London, had gotten over reliant on low price labour which was undermining the income and long term training prospects of British working class people. It worked for me as I am reasonably well payed and don’t have much price competition but many of my friends who I grew up with were not so lucky and their lives seemed much harder than mine. The fact that we are now struggling with labour and skills shortages feels like my fears were valid although I don’t think anyone has actually bothered to help retrain people. Maybe the current pain we are feeling will encourage companies to put abit more effort into their longer term hiring and training strategies. Or they could just keep complaining that all the cheap labour has disappeared"

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham

[Removed by poster at 12/10/21 13:38:53]

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By *eanoCoolMan  over a year ago

wisbech


"And how does that chair feel? Comfortable, haha

Well it looks like using your analogy that some were happy sitting on the chair still and others wanted a different chair i guess."

Umm I dont know you would have to ask those that voted that way. I told you it was some family members, I never said it was how I voted, using my green arrow will give you that answer. My own chair though is nice and comfy thankyou, sales in my company are up 4.8% on 2018 levels, and we are seeing very strong growth in the UK, USA and China markets particularly. We are busy trying to recruit for both our apprenticeship scheme for this years intake and for extra employees to help with the increase in demand at present, so yeah things are OK for me and the rest of the employees thanks.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"The EU bailed out those poor economies of Southern Europe and let’s not forget Ireland too. And they would bail out the UK too, if that were to happen, when in the EU.

I don’t understand why you have this misinformation that Germany would take a hit: please explain . I don’t think you will be able to.

The UK is in worse economic shape then it’s been in a very long time. Our economy compared to other nations sucks.

Brexiteers have been fooled and need to smell the coffee. Oops sorry, we don’t have enough EU staff to make us a coffee.

I also thought the economy, particularly in London, had gotten over reliant on low price labour which was undermining the income and long term training prospects of British working class people. It worked for me as I am reasonably well payed and don’t have much price competition but many of my friends who I grew up with were not so lucky and their lives seemed much harder than mine. The fact that we are now struggling with labour and skills shortages feels like my fears were valid although I don’t think anyone has actually bothered to help retrain people. Maybe the current pain we are feeling will encourage companies to put abit more effort into their longer term hiring and training strategies. Or they could just keep complaining that all the cheap labour has disappeared"

Does it suck? not going by this.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"The EU bailed out those poor economies of Southern Europe and let’s not forget Ireland too. And they would bail out the UK too, if that were to happen, when in the EU.

I don’t understand why you have this misinformation that Germany would take a hit: please explain . I don’t think you will be able to.

The UK is in worse economic shape then it’s been in a very long time. Our economy compared to other nations sucks.

Brexiteers have been fooled and need to smell the coffee. Oops sorry, we don’t have enough EU staff to make us a coffee.

I also thought the economy, particularly in London, had gotten over reliant on low price labour which was undermining the income and long term training prospects of British working class people. It worked for me as I am reasonably well payed and don’t have much price competition but many of my friends who I grew up with were not so lucky and their lives seemed much harder than mine. The fact that we are now struggling with labour and skills shortages feels like my fears were valid although I don’t think anyone has actually bothered to help retrain people. Maybe the current pain we are feeling will encourage companies to put abit more effort into their longer term hiring and training strategies. Or they could just keep complaining that all the cheap labour has disappeared"

The EU didn’t bail out Southern Europe - it was the troika of the EU, ECB and IMF that did it. The reason I make my claim about the German banks is that the reason Southern Europe was in such a mess was because the exchange rates that those countries has joined the Euro at where politically set and had (and still does) lead to large balance of payments differences with Northern Europe - in particular Germany. Those balance of payments are funded by the banks because they are the people who were funding the exporters. German ones. Part of the fudge that has been out in place post the bail out is the use of overnight lending by the ECB through the Target 2 clearing system which is effectively a mechanism to nationalise the privately held bank debt.

Obviously you understand ECB monetary policy and I hope your low priced EU servant brings you your coffee quickly.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 12/10/21 14:32:58]

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Thank you for choosing information that didn’t include some key take always. But good try. And perhaps make yourself a cup of coffee, and relax and have a think about some pertinent information you failed to share…

I’ll use Greece as a good Southern European failed nation.

Greece defaulted in the amount of €1.6 billion to the IMF in 2015.

The financial crisis was largely the result of structural problems that ignored the loss of tax revenues due to systematic tax evasion.

Greece's productivity was much less productive than other EU nations making Greek goods and services less competitive and plunging the nation into insurmountable debt during the 2017 global financial crisis.


" The EU didn’t bail out Southern Europe - it was the troika of the EU, ECB and IMF that did it. The reason I make my claim about the German banks is that the reason Southern Europe was in such a mess was because the exchange rates that those countries has joined the Euro at where politically set and had (and still does) lead to large balance of payments differences with Northern Europe - in particular Germany. Those balance of payments are funded by the banks because they are the people who were funding the exporters. German ones. Part of the fudge that has been out in place post the bail out is the use of overnight lending by the ECB through the Target 2 clearing system which is effectively a mechanism to nationalise the privately held bank debt.

Obviously you understand ECB monetary policy and I hope your low priced EU servant brings you your coffee quickly."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Brexit is a shitshow. It will continue to be a shitshow for years. People have voted to make the majority of people in the UK poorer while a tiny minority will get richer. Well done. Seriously, well done!"

We are very grateful I must say

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

As a percentage more poorer people voted for Brexit then the affluent. Kind of shot ourselves in the foot.

To think the people in mining towns in the north and midlands voted to keep EU funding out of their communities. And has Bodger met the shortfall … no way Jose!


"Brexit is a shitshow. It will continue to be a shitshow for years. People have voted to make the majority of people in the UK poorer while a tiny minority will get richer. Well done. Seriously, well done!

We are very grateful I must say "

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Thank you for choosing information that didn’t include some key take always. But good try. And perhaps make yourself a cup of coffee, and relax and have a think about some pertinent information you failed to share…

I’ll use Greece as a good Southern European failed nation.

Greece defaulted in the amount of €1.6 billion to the IMF in 2015.

The financial crisis was largely the result of structural problems that ignored the loss of tax revenues due to systematic tax evasion.

Greece's productivity was much less productive than other EU nations making Greek goods and services less competitive and plunging the nation into insurmountable debt during the 2017 global financial crisis.

The EU didn’t bail out Southern Europe - it was the troika of the EU, ECB and IMF that did it. The reason I make my claim about the German banks is that the reason Southern Europe was in such a mess was because the exchange rates that those countries has joined the Euro at where politically set and had (and still does) lead to large balance of payments differences with Northern Europe - in particular Germany. Those balance of payments are funded by the banks because they are the people who were funding the exporters. German ones. Part of the fudge that has been out in place post the bail out is the use of overnight lending by the ECB through the Target 2 clearing system which is effectively a mechanism to nationalise the privately held bank debt.

Obviously you understand ECB monetary policy and I hope your low priced EU servant brings you your coffee quickly."

You asked me to explain why the German banks were exposed. I did so. If you can point out the part of answering your question that is wrong or misleading then I would appreciate that.

As to your point about the lack of Greek tax revenues - I 100% agree with you. You can also apply that to Italy and other Southern European countries. I am sure you appreciate that ensuring good fiscal governance of member states is a key element of the EUs responsibility under multiple treaties. I am not entirely sure how the wholesale failure of the tax base that you point out reflects well on the EU and it’s governance process and I would have thought that would have been a point that would have been brought up by someone who was advocating a leave position but maybe that contradiction is for another day.

It is interesting to observe why Greek productivity is so low vis a vis other European states. One factor would be whole under reporting of business activity - which, again, doesn’t reflect well on the EUs ability to govern member states. The other factor would be that Greece is operating at a severe disadvantage relative to other counties due to its cost base. Essentially what that boils down to is that it is operating at the wrong exchange rate. Unfortunately it can’t change that as the Euro is fixed across all the relevant countries. As I pointed out earlier this was a political decision taken to ensure that countries can be brought into the EU fold in earlier times (which also does not reflect well on relevant governance processes) and can now only be solved either by the breakup of the Euro or severe pressure on the cost bases of the “poor” countries. That does not seem to be within the European spirit I always hear about.

This mix of fiscal and monetary policy is unsustainable. Either member states control everything - which kills the Euro - or it requires fiscal policy to be handed to the EU which leaves national governements with no power. A half way house doesn’t work (as you pointed out).

I don’t believe national governments will give up that power and so I doubt the viability (long term) of the EU project. Do you feel they will hand over this power? If you don’t then can please explain how you will reconcile that contradiction.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham

Just to be clear - I wish the EU well. I just have to conclude the inherent contradictions are fundamental and I don’t want my kids to be left to pick up the pieces. I would have voted differently if the governance process worked or merely had to deal with trade issues.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham

This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I’ve not seen any brexiteers refute that claim so far. Unless I missed something.


"This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t."

I have said this numerous times, the vast majority of leave voters are not racist but the vast majority of racists voted to leave

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I think it’s we who will need the forgiveness of the EU and pleased for their patience. We are the petulance child of Europe. I feel embarrassed and shame on our politicians.

We are no longer relevant to the world. And we will simply fall further and further behind in the world stakes.


"Just to be clear - I wish the EU well. I just have to conclude the inherent contradictions are fundamental and I don’t want my kids to be left to pick up the pieces. I would have voted differently if the governance process worked or merely had to deal with trade issues."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I agree with your quote. However, Leave voters were fed a bunch of lies.


"This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t.

I have said this numerous times, the vast majority of leave voters are not racist but the vast majority of racists voted to leave "

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"I agree with your quote. However, Leave voters were fed a bunch of lies.

This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t.

I have said this numerous times, the vast majority of leave voters are not racist but the vast majority of racists voted to leave "

True, and to some extent there were lies on both sides,

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The lies by the Remainers wouldn’t have harmed the UK, to the same extent. But I agree there were lies.


" True, and to some extent there were lies on both sides,"

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By *irldnCouple  over a year ago

Brighton


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

I voted out but not because I care about immigration or a “mislead belief” of sovereignty.

I voted out because I saw what had happened to Southern Europe (Greece, Spain, Portugal etc) after the financial crisis and I realised that the European Union would rather destroy those economies than allow Germany to take a hit as their banks were so overexposed to debt in those countries. I found it hard to reconcile the “spirit” of Europe with the fact that, when push came to shove, money talked.

The problem for the EU is that they have created a currency that only works if there is one government. I don’t think that is viable in Europe given the history and so I believe that it is ultimately doomed. Better to get out now and take a large hit than have no life raft when the Euro collapses.

My argument obviously falls down if you think the Euro is a viable currency and that the EU is good at managing crises. I don’t but I guess if you voted to remain then you do believe that."

Hmmm except the UK had our own currency! We had the best of both worlds. Unrestricted access to one of the most lucrative markets in the world, freedom to travel, work and live in 27 countries yet also not part of Schengen! Able to stand toe-to-toe in trade negotiations with USA, China and Japan. All for, what turned out, to be a relatively small membership fee! Madness!

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"I’ve not seen any brexiteers refute that claim so far. Unless I missed something.

This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t."

So you are accusing me of racism?

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially. "

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP     over a year ago

Gonna quote it again. It seems eternally relevant:

"It's easier to fool somebody than to convince them they've been fooled"

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

I voted out but not because I care about immigration or a “mislead belief” of sovereignty.

I voted out because I saw what had happened to Southern Europe (Greece, Spain, Portugal etc) after the financial crisis and I realised that the European Union would rather destroy those economies than allow Germany to take a hit as their banks were so overexposed to debt in those countries. I found it hard to reconcile the “spirit” of Europe with the fact that, when push came to shove, money talked.

The problem for the EU is that they have created a currency that only works if there is one government. I don’t think that is viable in Europe given the history and so I believe that it is ultimately doomed. Better to get out now and take a large hit than have no life raft when the Euro collapses.

My argument obviously falls down if you think the Euro is a viable currency and that the EU is good at managing crises. I don’t but I guess if you voted to remain then you do believe that.

Hmmm except the UK had our own currency! We had the best of both worlds. Unrestricted access to one of the most lucrative markets in the world, freedom to travel, work and live in 27 countries yet also not part of Schengen! Able to stand toe-to-toe in trade negotiations with USA, China and Japan. All for, what turned out, to be a relatively small membership fee! Madness!"

That’s not the whole story is it?

The EU has been unable to land a major trade deal in over a decade because they keep getting vetoed by minority countries and regional parliaments (for example Wallonia basically killed the 2016 Canadian deal). TTIP (the trade deal with US) was killed in 2019. The EU has too many factional interests to be able to land a major trade deal.

As for the currency - my point is exactly that we currently have our own. If we had stayed then there would either have been immense pressure to join the Euro or we would have been seen as the perennial outsider that we have always been since our aborted attempt to join the ERM in 1992. Black Wednesday was humiliating for the British government but it was probably the best thing to happen to us as it made it abundantly clear that the services based economy of the UK had fundamentally different needs from the export led economy of Germany and only one of them can be dominant. If you feel that has changed then I can see why you would think that joining the Euro makes sense. I don’t think anything has changed and, indeed, we have become even more service orientated so joining the Euro would be a disaster. If we can’t join the Euro then where does that leave us when there is massive pressure for further integration?

Greece and Southern Europe are prime examples of what happens when economic needs diverge from the main power house.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

"

Can you define long term? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years,

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t."
The eu was like a rather large Bullingdon club which i would guess a lot of remainers would despise yet they support elitist benefits for members just like those posh rich boys.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"This is a very long winded way of refuting your initial observation that all leavers voted that way because of implicit racism and anti immigration. I didn’t. The eu was like a rather large Bullingdon club which i would guess a lot of remainers would despise yet they support elitist benefits for members just like those posh rich boys. "

Why?

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

Can you define long term? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years, "

Generational - between generations. I am thinking about what happens for my kids when the contradictions of the Euro finally manifest. I think that will take decade plus but it unless governance changes for a much more centralised structure then it will fail.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

Can you define long term? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years,

Generational - between generations. I am thinking about what happens for my kids when the contradictions of the Euro finally manifest. I think that will take decade plus but it unless governance changes for a much more centralised structure then it will fail."

So you ‘think ‘ it will fail in 10 years and the Brexit benefits will start after ? What are you basing this on?

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

Can you define long term? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years,

Generational - between generations. I am thinking about what happens for my kids when the contradictions of the Euro finally manifest. I think that will take decade plus but it unless governance changes for a much more centralised structure then it will fail.

So you ‘think ‘ it will fail in 10 years and the Brexit benefits will start after ? What are you basing this on? "

No I am not saying that at all so please don’t put words in my mouth

As I have said multiple times in this thread I think there are fundamental contradictions between the fiscal and monetary policies required by different countries and the governance processes in place at the EU level to deal with them. Ultimately those pressures need to come out and that will either be permanent integration and fiscal transfers or a financial meltdown. I think any respectable economist any any side would agree with that. Where people disagree is what degree of political process can ameliorate the issue.

My view is that I don’t believe the required integration will happen and so a financial crisis will ensure where the Euro breaks up. We need to remember that currency failures happen pretty regularly and Germany has had several over the past 100 years.

If that happens I want the UK out of the blast zone and to have set it’s own strategy.

If integration does happen then, as I observed just above, I don’t see how our service based economy can be reconciled with the German export/manufacturing orientated one. We tried before in 1992 and it didn’t end well so we already know how that will play our.

If that happens it would have been nice to have been able to set our own strategy.

I am not claiming that leave is a strategy that will make us lots of money. What I am saying is that leave is the strategy that ensures we don’t go down with the ship.

Whatever option we choose will end badly - I want to chose the one that leaves us the most degrees of freedom.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich

you will get used to people putting words in your mouth on here mate as well as taking sentences out of context its an age old tactic when they dont have a credible response.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"you will get used to people putting words in your mouth on here mate as well as taking sentences out of context its an age old tactic when they dont have a credible response. "

I am used to it which is why I am trying to be as consistent in my responses.

Would be nice if someone who thinks Brexit is immense stupidity would explain to me why they think the fiscal/monetary dilemma doesn’t matter but I guess I will be waiting awhile for that ….

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By *or Fox SakeCouple  over a year ago

Thornaby


"you will get used to people putting words in your mouth on here mate as well as taking sentences out of context its an age old tactic when they dont have a credible response. "

We should pay attention to your post, no one knows more about a lack of credibility than you

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"you will get used to people putting words in your mouth on here mate as well as taking sentences out of context its an age old tactic when they dont have a credible response.

We should pay attention to your post, no one knows more about a lack of credibility than you "

Thanks im glad you read them ,sorry i cant put them in simpler terms for you but keep reading it may become clearer the more you practice.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham

[Removed by poster at 12/10/21 17:29:20]

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By *lex46TV/TS  over a year ago

Near Wells

For gods sake the referendum was over 5 years ago!

It's over, done, move on please. The country is in a mess due to many things which are not all Brexit related.

Instead of insulting and criticising people that didn't vote the way you think they should, why not do something a bit more positive and help this country be great again?

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley

Brexit was a done deal before any votes were cast, the EU was clamping down on the special carved in stone dispensation the square mile has for zombie banking hypothecation and Rehypothecation which it would of had to give up.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The statement about zombies makes zero sense. Nor is it comedic because it’s non sensical joke.

How is the negations for the Financial Services trade agreement between UK and EU fairing ! We are down between £7bn-£15bn in trades daily . Well done Brexiteers.


"Brexit was a done deal before any votes were cast, the EU was clamping down on the special carved in stone dispensation the square mile has for zombie banking hypothecation and Rehypothecation which it would of had to give up."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Why don’t you start off the positivity. We can then follow your lead.


"For gods sake the referendum was over 5 years ago!

It's over, done, move on please. The country is in a mess due to many things which are not all Brexit related.

Instead of insulting and criticising people that didn't vote the way you think they should, why not do something a bit more positive and help this country be great again? "

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

The UK is a service led industry our largest trading block is the EU. We get better terms by being part of the Bloc. All major nations are part of a trading block. Apart from the UK.

Our fiscal / monetary policies are interlinked with international trade. We have simply made trade more expensive to our country and we as consumers will be picking up the cost.

Hope it’s clear to you what brexit has delivered to the UK.


"you will get used to people putting words in your mouth on here mate as well as taking sentences out of context its an age old tactic when they dont have a credible response.

I am used to it which is why I am trying to be as consistent in my responses.

Would be nice if someone who thinks Brexit is immense stupidity would explain to me why they think the fiscal/monetary dilemma doesn’t matter but I guess I will be waiting awhile for that …."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

You can’t have freedom whatever that means, if we rely on foreign trading partners. If we choose isolationism, good luck to us. That’s the sure why to remain unaffected by financial failures of other nations.

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

Can you define long term? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years,

Generational - between generations. I am thinking about what happens for my kids when the contradictions of the Euro finally manifest. I think that will take decade plus but it unless governance changes for a much more centralised structure then it will fail.

So you ‘think ‘ it will fail in 10 years and the Brexit benefits will start after ? What are you basing this on?

No I am not saying that at all so please don’t put words in my mouth

As I have said multiple times in this thread I think there are fundamental contradictions between the fiscal and monetary policies required by different countries and the governance processes in place at the EU level to deal with them. Ultimately those pressures need to come out and that will either be permanent integration and fiscal transfers or a financial meltdown. I think any respectable economist any any side would agree with that. Where people disagree is what degree of political process can ameliorate the issue.

My view is that I don’t believe the required integration will happen and so a financial crisis will ensure where the Euro breaks up. We need to remember that currency failures happen pretty regularly and Germany has had several over the past 100 years.

If that happens I want the UK out of the blast zone and to have set it’s own strategy.

If integration does happen then, as I observed just above, I don’t see how our service based economy can be reconciled with the German export/manufacturing orientated one. We tried before in 1992 and it didn’t end well so we already know how that will play our.

If that happens it would have been nice to have been able to set our own strategy.

I am not claiming that leave is a strategy that will make us lots of money. What I am saying is that leave is the strategy that ensures we don’t go down with the ship.

Whatever option we choose will end badly - I want to chose the one that leaves us the most degrees of freedom."

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By *ittleAcornMan  over a year ago

.

I was reading a few things today, and came across these statements...

“In reality therefore what we can negotiate will fall short of the theoretical ideal..

“In short, even the best-case outcome can’t be as good as what we have now; and we won’t be able to negotiate the best-case outcome anyway, because in real life you never can.”

Have a guess who said the above.

David Frost, our chief negotiator.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

"

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard.

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. "

and remainers accuse leavers of not knowing what they voted for.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Some clangers from Brexiteers

Michael Gove said that 'we'd hold all the cards' after leaving the European Union

Dominic Raab: "I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this but... we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing"

Nigel Farage: "I never promised it would be a huge success"

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

Douglas Carswell: "I think free trade would be relatively straightforward between the UK and America"

Gerard Batten "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee"

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By *ostafunMan  over a year ago

near ipswich


"Some clangers from Brexiteers

Michael Gove said that 'we'd hold all the cards' after leaving the European Union

Dominic Raab: "I hadn't quite understood the full extent of this but... we are particularly reliant on the Dover-Calais crossing"

Nigel Farage: "I never promised it would be a huge success"

Liam Fox: "The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history"

Boris Johnson: "There is no plan for no deal because we are going to get a great deal"

Douglas Carswell: "I think free trade would be relatively straightforward between the UK and America"

Gerard Batten "A trade deal with the EU could be sorted out in an afternoon over a cup of coffee""

yep some dickhead comments there everyone knows it takes those little piggies in brussels at least 20 years to do a deal going by experience.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. and remainers accuse leavers of not knowing what they voted for. "

So I am wrong when I disagree with you and I am wrong when I agree with you. Glad that is cleared up.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

You stated that the collapse of the euro would effect the UK, so by being out of the Eu we are somehow immune . Which isn’t the case .


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. "

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley


"The statement about zombies makes zero sense. Nor is it comedic because it’s non sensical joke.

How is the negations for the Financial Services trade agreement between UK and EU fairing ! We are down between £7bn-£15bn in trades daily . Well done Brexiteers.

Brexit was a done deal before any votes were cast, the EU was clamping down on the special carved in stone dispensation the square mile has for zombie banking hypothecation and Rehypothecation which it would of had to give up."

The UK never had any intention of joining the SSM and SRM European banking union.

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By *ucianpoundCouple  over a year ago

Cap d’Agde, France

As an Irishman living in France I’ve yet to notice any difference in either country nor do we have empty shelves or petrol shortages due to Covid!

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham

What I actually said was : “ Whatever option we choose will end badly - I want to chose the one that leaves us the most degrees of freedom."

I never said I wanted little England isolationism and I never said that this country will be immune. I said the exact opposite

I empathise with your desire to see the world as two dimensional - good or bad — but it is more nuanced than that and, strangely, it is possible for us to agree on some things and not others. Please give me the basic courtesy of reading what I said as opposed to reacting to what you think I said and stop putting words into my mouth.


"You stated that the collapse of the euro would effect the UK, so by being out of the Eu we are somehow immune . Which isn’t the case .

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. "

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. and remainers accuse leavers of not knowing what they voted for. "

Funny how you haven’t mentioned any of this, despite repeatedly being asked over the last few years!!

Coat tail politics your new thing?

Your best answer was sovereignty

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. and remainers accuse leavers of not knowing what they voted for.

Funny how you haven’t mentioned any of this, despite repeatedly being asked over the last few years!!

Coat tail politics your new thing?

Your best answer was sovereignty "

Who is this “you” that is being talked about?

No one has asked my opinion on here until now so I am fairly sure it can’t be referring to me as an actual person. I would guess you are referring to a hypothetical figure that doesn’t actually exist on which you can paint some kind of caricature?

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley

I know what hasn't changed the 20 odd thousand lobbyists loitering around the European parliament daily.

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By *irldnCouple  over a year ago

Brighton


"Brexiteers voted based on an ideology of anti immigration white Britain first and some mislead belief of reuniting sovereignty. Of course the 52% won’t ever feel brexit was wrong.

I voted out but not because I care about immigration or a “mislead belief” of sovereignty.

I voted out because I saw what had happened to Southern Europe (Greece, Spain, Portugal etc) after the financial crisis and I realised that the European Union would rather destroy those economies than allow Germany to take a hit as their banks were so overexposed to debt in those countries. I found it hard to reconcile the “spirit” of Europe with the fact that, when push came to shove, money talked.

The problem for the EU is that they have created a currency that only works if there is one government. I don’t think that is viable in Europe given the history and so I believe that it is ultimately doomed. Better to get out now and take a large hit than have no life raft when the Euro collapses.

My argument obviously falls down if you think the Euro is a viable currency and that the EU is good at managing crises. I don’t but I guess if you voted to remain then you do believe that.

Hmmm except the UK had our own currency! We had the best of both worlds. Unrestricted access to one of the most lucrative markets in the world, freedom to travel, work and live in 27 countries yet also not part of Schengen! Able to stand toe-to-toe in trade negotiations with USA, China and Japan. All for, what turned out, to be a relatively small membership fee! Madness!

That’s not the whole story is it?

The EU has been unable to land a major trade deal in over a decade because they keep getting vetoed by minority countries and regional parliaments (for example Wallonia basically killed the 2016 Canadian deal). TTIP (the trade deal with US) was killed in 2019. The EU has too many factional interests to be able to land a major trade deal.

As for the currency - my point is exactly that we currently have our own. If we had stayed then there would either have been immense pressure to join the Euro or we would have been seen as the perennial outsider that we have always been since our aborted attempt to join the ERM in 1992. Black Wednesday was humiliating for the British government but it was probably the best thing to happen to us as it made it abundantly clear that the services based economy of the UK had fundamentally different needs from the export led economy of Germany and only one of them can be dominant. If you feel that has changed then I can see why you would think that joining the Euro makes sense. I don’t think anything has changed and, indeed, we have become even more service orientated so joining the Euro would be a disaster. If we can’t join the Euro then where does that leave us when there is massive pressure for further integration?

Greece and Southern Europe are prime examples of what happens when economic needs diverge from the main power house."

Who said anything about joining the Euro? It was never going to happen. Indeed closer integration would never happen while UK was still in the EU and exercising our veto.

Always astounds me when Brexiters (not necessarily you as don’t follow your posts) talk about how great, powerful and influential the UK can be in the world stage but in the same breath complain the UK was bullied and weak inside the EU. It is all utter nonsense. The list of concessions the UK had while still being inside the EU was astounding. Enjoyed all the benefits with far less exposure to any of the risks.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

Always astounds me when Brexiters (not necessarily you as don’t follow your posts) talk about how great, powerful and influential the UK can be in the world stage but in the same breath complain the UK was bullied and weak inside the EU. It is all utter nonsense. The list of concessions the UK had while still being inside the EU was astounding. Enjoyed all the benefits with far less exposure to any of the risks. "

You won’t have read my previous posts in this as I don’t think I have posted on it

I agree with you that people claiming that we can be all powerful and yet also be bullied are not credible.

I also think that people who claim there are no long term risks are not credible either.

Personally I think a plague on all their houses but it has been interesting to see how people have reacted to what they think I am saying as to what I have actually written - which I only started as someone claimed that anyone voting this way was essentially racist as they wanted a white first policy and I wanted to give an alternative view - which happens to be mine and I don’t think I have written anything that is racist.

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By *ockosaurusMan  over a year ago

Warwick


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

What about the other 8%?

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

I’ve yet to see an definitive rationale reasoning why Brexiteers didn’t vote for immigration or sovereignty. You Sir still haven’t answered that. But simply point out there are other reasons.

So let’s hear them.


"

Always astounds me when Brexiters (not necessarily you as don’t follow your posts) talk about how great, powerful and influential the UK can be in the world stage but in the same breath complain the UK was bullied and weak inside the EU. It is all utter nonsense. The list of concessions the UK had while still being inside the EU was astounding. Enjoyed all the benefits with far less exposure to any of the risks.

You won’t have read my previous posts in this as I don’t think I have posted on it

I agree with you that people claiming that we can be all powerful and yet also be bullied are not credible.

I also think that people who claim there are no long term risks are not credible either.

Personally I think a plague on all their houses but it has been interesting to see how people have reacted to what they think I am saying as to what I have actually written - which I only started as someone claimed that anyone voting this way was essentially racist as they wanted a white first policy and I wanted to give an alternative view - which happens to be mine and I don’t think I have written anything that is racist."

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

But Tory lobbyists stealing tax payer money to feed their Tory donors with our tax money on dodgy PPE and failed track and trace app is ok to you ?

We are as dirty as the EU lobbyists. But that’s ok , because they’re British dirt bags.


"I know what hasn't changed the 20 odd thousand lobbyists loitering around the European parliament daily."

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

I’ve yet to see an definitive rationale reasoning why Brexiteers didn’t vote for immigration or sovereignty. You Sir still haven’t answered that. But simply point out there are other reasons.

So let’s hear them.

"

I don’t know why people who have racist intentions voted that way because, as you pointed out yourself, my rationale to vote was for different reasons. I can’t argue for a position I don’t understand or agree with so please stop trying to put that racist, anti immigrant label on me. It is offensive.

I voted the way I did because of structural concerns about the long term governance capabilities of the EU.

If other people voted for other things because of other reasons then I can’t help you.

You have to realise that there is not a single absolute position here. It is perfectly possible to vote to leave but absolutely loathe Farage et al. I can’t stand the man and just because he gets himself on a bus doesn’t mean he represents my views.

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By *adetMan  over a year ago

Ipswich


"

Always astounds me when Brexiters (not necessarily you as don’t follow your posts) talk about how great, powerful and influential the UK can be in the world stage but in the same breath complain the UK was bullied and weak inside the EU. It is all utter nonsense. The list of concessions the UK had while still being inside the EU was astounding. Enjoyed all the benefits with far less exposure to any of the risks.

You won’t have read my previous posts in this as I don’t think I have posted on it

I agree with you that people claiming that we can be all powerful and yet also be bullied are not credible.

I also think that people who claim there are no long term risks are not credible either.

Personally I think a plague on all their houses but it has been interesting to see how people have reacted to what they think I am saying as to what I have actually written - which I only started as someone claimed that anyone voting this way was essentially racist as they wanted a white first policy and I wanted to give an alternative view - which happens to be mine and I don’t think I have written anything that is racist."

You haven't said anything remotely racist. It's always the last ditch attempt on here when people have run out of an argument. People seem to forget that most Europeans are Caucasian so race had nothing to do with it. They also know this but they do like to clutch at their straws

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"Brexiteers are feeling rather foolish. I pity them.

They were duped, conned and lied to. Majority of them will be affected financially.

I don’t feel foolish. As I pointed out I voted to leave for long term, structural, reasons. By that I mean generational. Over the long term it is the right move. Short term I agree there are costs.

Can you define long term? 10 years? 20 years? 30 years,

Generational - between generations. I am thinking about what happens for my kids when the contradictions of the Euro finally manifest. I think that will take decade plus but it unless governance changes for a much more centralised structure then it will fail.

So you ‘think ‘ it will fail in 10 years and the Brexit benefits will start after ? What are you basing this on?

No I am not saying that at all so please don’t put words in my mouth

As I have said multiple times in this thread I think there are fundamental contradictions between the fiscal and monetary policies required by different countries and the governance processes in place at the EU level to deal with them. Ultimately those pressures need to come out and that will either be permanent integration and fiscal transfers or a financial meltdown. I think any respectable economist any any side would agree with that. Where people disagree is what degree of political process can ameliorate the issue.

My view is that I don’t believe the required integration will happen and so a financial crisis will ensure where the Euro breaks up. We need to remember that currency failures happen pretty regularly and Germany has had several over the past 100 years.

If that happens I want the UK out of the blast zone and to have set it’s own strategy.

If integration does happen then, as I observed just above, I don’t see how our service based economy can be reconciled with the German export/manufacturing orientated one. We tried before in 1992 and it didn’t end well so we already know how that will play our.

If that happens it would have been nice to have been able to set our own strategy.

I am not claiming that leave is a strategy that will make us lots of money. What I am saying is that leave is the strategy that ensures we don’t go down with the ship.

Whatever option we choose will end badly - I want to chose the one that leaves us the most degrees of freedom."

I’m curious how you believe isolation will help us be safer or help us to develop in the long term?

We have to trade and to continually grow to manage and hopefully reduce our debts. Our easiest trade was the EU and given our success since joining, it would be reasonable to assume that could continue with good and engaged government.

Historically our fiscal political strategies seem non existent given our debts both on a private and at government level. Hidden pension liabilities send us into a very big hole.

Our sick man of Europe status looks to be heading our way yet again.

We are a country that has historically benefitted and grown better than most in Europe from our initial entry into the EEC. We opened markets and engaged competition which initially was hard work but it invigorated our economy.

The fact that the UK’s great financial success has been robbed by successful governments and handed out in tax avoidance rather than re invested in the U.K. is down solely to the U.K. Parliament and not due to the EU.

With better financial management over the last 40 years we wouldn’t have debt and would be less concerned about the EU or any global markets crashing as we would have the ability to endure most financial storms. (Ref see Norway- lower population admittedly but government used the higher tax on oil wisely)

I believe your faith in the competence of our governments ability is sadly misplaced and whilst I agree with you that changes are badly needed in the U.K.. I don’t think hindering ourselves by increasing costs on 45% of our exports is a particularly good short or long term move. “IF” the euro fails isn’t much of a basis for a secure plan is it?

We would adapt to that scenario at the time so why self inflict so much harm on what is just a distant maybe?

I do agree the euro quandary is a difficult one but ultimately currencies will be superseded electronically and by far more sophisticated trading rules so I’m not unduly worried about the future of the euro. It tends to balance to reality anyway which is why Greece got in a mess. Pay your taxes was the message there. Italian lira was like watching a pogo competition. Personally being able to deal internationally using the euro helped stabilise a lot of our business trades so again quite happy for it to continue.

I also have zero faith in our governments ability to hold court around the world to push for better trade deals. 68 copy deals and counting so far I read.

People believe because we have nuclear weapons we are global influence . Sadly weren’t not .

Working with countries which have similar costs lifestyle aspirations and costs of living has got to be better (easier in the medium term) than trying to compete with low wage economies on the other side of the world.

The basics of trade mean unless we are a high value economy then we need to have low costs. We can’t get as low as Singapore,China or Mexico etc etc.

How much faith do you have in high tech high wage promises ? How long before education in this country can be enabled to fill the generational gap needed to allow high education high tech? 20? 30? How much damage and debt by then?

Saying we want something is easy . Implementing is not the same as wishful thinking!

The only other safe option is close the borders . No imports and we all buy British.. how’s that working for North Korea.

We have pulled the rug to make a point without any idea of what to do next! I think you single point of the euro not being a safe bet is extremely weak given the vast array of other factors which will impact our economy . Being out of the eurozone but in Europe gave us the benefit along with the comforting insulation we needed. Risk yes I totally agree with you but in the bigger picture not that great.

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"

However, it’s a proven fact countries that follow isolationism fail. Low growth, no innovations and general failings that grown ups with responsibility wouldn’t advocate.

100% agree with you. Which is why I have never used the words isolationism so curious as to why you think I think that. Personally I think the world is a big place and we shouldn’t be parochial and just stay in our own back yard. and remainers accuse leavers of not knowing what they voted for.

Funny how you haven’t mentioned any of this, despite repeatedly being asked over the last few years!!

Coat tail politics your new thing?

Your best answer was sovereignty

Who is this “you” that is being talked about?

No one has asked my opinion on here until now so I am fairly sure it can’t be referring to me as an actual person. I would guess you are referring to a hypothetical figure that doesn’t actually exist on which you can paint some kind of caricature?

"

My sincere apologies I was replying to Costa and attached to the wrong post. Totally my mistake . Costa it was for you !!!

I will now remove my foot from my mouth discretely!!

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

I’m curious how you believe isolation will help us be safer or help us to develop in the long term?

We have to trade and to continually grow to manage and hopefully reduce our debts. Our easiest trade was the EU and given our success since joining, it would be reasonable to assume that could continue with good and engaged government.

Historically our fiscal political strategies seem non existent given our debts both on a private and at government level. Hidden pension liabilities send us into a very big hole.

Our sick man of Europe status looks to be heading our way yet again.

We are a country that has historically benefitted and grown better than most in Europe from our initial entry into the EEC. We opened markets and engaged competition which initially was hard work but it invigorated our economy.

The fact that the UK’s great financial success has been robbed by successful governments and handed out in tax avoidance rather than re invested in the U.K. is down solely to the U.K. Parliament and not due to the EU.

With better financial management over the last 40 years we wouldn’t have debt and would be less concerned about the EU or any global markets crashing as we would have the ability to endure most financial storms. (Ref see Norway- lower population admittedly but government used the higher tax on oil wisely)

I believe your faith in the competence of our governments ability is sadly misplaced and whilst I agree with you that changes are badly needed in the U.K.. I don’t think hindering ourselves by increasing costs on 45% of our exports is a particularly good short or long term move. “IF” the euro fails isn’t much of a basis for a secure plan is it?

We would adapt to that scenario at the time so why self inflict so much harm on what is just a distant maybe?

I do agree the euro quandary is a difficult one but ultimately currencies will be superseded electronically and by far more sophisticated trading rules so I’m not unduly worried about the future of the euro. It tends to balance to reality anyway which is why Greece got in a mess. Pay your taxes was the message there. Italian lira was like watching a pogo competition. Personally being able to deal internationally using the euro helped stabilise a lot of our business trades so again quite happy for it to continue.

I also have zero faith in our governments ability to hold court around the world to push for better trade deals. 68 copy deals and counting so far I read.

People believe because we have nuclear weapons we are global influence . Sadly weren’t not .

Working with countries which have similar costs lifestyle aspirations and costs of living has got to be better (easier in the medium term) than trying to compete with low wage economies on the other side of the world.

The basics of trade mean unless we are a high value economy then we need to have low costs. We can’t get as low as Singapore,China or Mexico etc etc.

How much faith do you have in high tech high wage promises ? How long before education in this country can be enabled to fill the generational gap needed to allow high education high tech? 20? 30? How much damage and debt by then?

Saying we want something is easy . Implementing is not the same as wishful thinking!

The only other safe option is close the borders . No imports and we all buy British.. how’s that working for North Korea.

We have pulled the rug to make a point without any idea of what to do next! I think you single point of the euro not being a safe bet is extremely weak given the vast array of other factors which will impact our economy . Being out of the eurozone but in Europe gave us the benefit along with the comforting insulation we needed. Risk yes I totally agree with you but in the bigger picture not that great.

"

I don’t believe isolation will help us and said the complete opposite. Let me be explicit:

I think international trade is critical. The EU is around 450m people out of a global population of about 7,700m people. The 7,250m people who do not live in the EU are seeing faster growth rates than those living in the EU. Every indication is that those growth rates will continue. I think we should be trading with the EU but I also think we should be trading with the 7.250 m outside the EU as well - especially given that the effects of compounding means that they will become much richer. The rest of the world is the future and I don’t think we should be parochial and simply focus on the EU.

The unfortunate fact is that the EU has failed to close and ratify a single substantive trade deal in years (please give an example if I am wrong). The governance process means that deals are hard to create and easy to veto. They tend to get vetoed. There is no credible plan to change that process so I am not sure how that will work out.

Would I like to live in a world where the EU was the future. Definitely. Do I think that compounding growth rates means the rest of the world is where we actually need to be? Unfortunately yes I do…

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By *bernathCouple  over a year ago

Gloucestershire


"

I’m curious how you believe isolation will help us be safer or help us to develop in the long term?

We have to trade and to continually grow to manage and hopefully reduce our debts. Our easiest trade was the EU and given our success since joining, it would be reasonable to assume that could continue with good and engaged government.

Historically our fiscal political strategies seem non existent given our debts both on a private and at government level. Hidden pension liabilities send us into a very big hole.

Our sick man of Europe status looks to be heading our way yet again.

We are a country that has historically benefitted and grown better than most in Europe from our initial entry into the EEC. We opened markets and engaged competition which initially was hard work but it invigorated our economy.

The fact that the UK’s great financial success has been robbed by successful governments and handed out in tax avoidance rather than re invested in the U.K. is down solely to the U.K. Parliament and not due to the EU.

With better financial management over the last 40 years we wouldn’t have debt and would be less concerned about the EU or any global markets crashing as we would have the ability to endure most financial storms. (Ref see Norway- lower population admittedly but government used the higher tax on oil wisely)

I believe your faith in the competence of our governments ability is sadly misplaced and whilst I agree with you that changes are badly needed in the U.K.. I don’t think hindering ourselves by increasing costs on 45% of our exports is a particularly good short or long term move. “IF” the euro fails isn’t much of a basis for a secure plan is it?

We would adapt to that scenario at the time so why self inflict so much harm on what is just a distant maybe?

I do agree the euro quandary is a difficult one but ultimately currencies will be superseded electronically and by far more sophisticated trading rules so I’m not unduly worried about the future of the euro. It tends to balance to reality anyway which is why Greece got in a mess. Pay your taxes was the message there. Italian lira was like watching a pogo competition. Personally being able to deal internationally using the euro helped stabilise a lot of our business trades so again quite happy for it to continue.

I also have zero faith in our governments ability to hold court around the world to push for better trade deals. 68 copy deals and counting so far I read.

People believe because we have nuclear weapons we are global influence . Sadly weren’t not .

Working with countries which have similar costs lifestyle aspirations and costs of living has got to be better (easier in the medium term) than trying to compete with low wage economies on the other side of the world.

The basics of trade mean unless we are a high value economy then we need to have low costs. We can’t get as low as Singapore,China or Mexico etc etc.

How much faith do you have in high tech high wage promises ? How long before education in this country can be enabled to fill the generational gap needed to allow high education high tech? 20? 30? How much damage and debt by then?

Saying we want something is easy . Implementing is not the same as wishful thinking!

The only other safe option is close the borders . No imports and we all buy British.. how’s that working for North Korea.

We have pulled the rug to make a point without any idea of what to do next! I think you single point of the euro not being a safe bet is extremely weak given the vast array of other factors which will impact our economy . Being out of the eurozone but in Europe gave us the benefit along with the comforting insulation we needed. Risk yes I totally agree with you but in the bigger picture not that great.

I don’t believe isolation will help us and said the complete opposite. Let me be explicit:

I think international trade is critical. The EU is around 450m people out of a global population of about 7,700m people. The 7,250m people who do not live in the EU are seeing faster growth rates than those living in the EU. Every indication is that those growth rates will continue. I think we should be trading with the EU but I also think we should be trading with the 7.250 m outside the EU as well - especially given that the effects of compounding means that they will become much richer. The rest of the world is the future and I don’t think we should be parochial and simply focus on the EU.

The unfortunate fact is that the EU has failed to close and ratify a single substantive trade deal in years (please give an example if I am wrong). The governance process means that deals are hard to create and easy to veto. They tend to get vetoed. There is no credible plan to change that process so I am not sure how that will work out.

Would I like to live in a world where the EU was the future. Definitely. Do I think that compounding growth rates means the rest of the world is where we actually need to be? Unfortunately yes I do…"

So considering the rest of the world, its good to say we need to be there, but the problem is do they want us to be there? Good trade deals a few and far between, and the markets where we should be seem to be in, don’t like the idea of another competitor.

So goodwill aside, we need to be realistic, this current government cannot deliver the brexit we need to be global. Time to step aside, call a snap election, and disappear into the wilderness.

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

Snap election

We need an opposition with half a clue and quarter of a plan first.

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By *ellhungvweMan  over a year ago

Cheltenham


"

So considering the rest of the world, its good to say we need to be there, but the problem is do they want us to be there? Good trade deals a few and far between, and the markets where we should be seem to be in, don’t like the idea of another competitor.

So goodwill aside, we need to be realistic, this current government cannot deliver the brexit we need to be global. Time to step aside, call a snap election, and disappear into the wilderness."

I love this thread - I am told I am isolationist and explain why I am the complete opposite and then I am told my position is fine but too naive

I 100% agree trade deals are hard to find. It is not going to be easy. But it is much easier to actually get a trade deal off the ground if they are not constantly getting vetoed as keeps happening with the current EU process which has not had a substantive trade deal signed and ratified in years.

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By *ackal1Couple  over a year ago

Manchester


"

I’m curious how you believe isolation will help us be safer or help us to develop in the long term?

We have to trade and to continually grow to manage and hopefully reduce our debts. Our easiest trade was the EU and given our success since joining, it would be reasonable to assume that could continue with good and engaged government.

Historically our fiscal political strategies seem non existent given our debts both on a private and at government level. Hidden pension liabilities send us into a very big hole.

Our sick man of Europe status looks to be heading our way yet again.

We are a country that has historically benefitted and grown better than most in Europe from our initial entry into the EEC. We opened markets and engaged competition which initially was hard work but it invigorated our economy.

The fact that the UK’s great financial success has been robbed by successful governments and handed out in tax avoidance rather than re invested in the U.K. is down solely to the U.K. Parliament and not due to the EU.

With better financial management over the last 40 years we wouldn’t have debt and would be less concerned about the EU or any global markets crashing as we would have the ability to endure most financial storms. (Ref see Norway- lower population admittedly but government used the higher tax on oil wisely)

I believe your faith in the competence of our governments ability is sadly misplaced and whilst I agree with you that changes are badly needed in the U.K.. I don’t think hindering ourselves by increasing costs on 45% of our exports is a particularly good short or long term move. “IF” the euro fails isn’t much of a basis for a secure plan is it?

We would adapt to that scenario at the time so why self inflict so much harm on what is just a distant maybe?

I do agree the euro quandary is a difficult one but ultimately currencies will be superseded electronically and by far more sophisticated trading rules so I’m not unduly worried about the future of the euro. It tends to balance to reality anyway which is why Greece got in a mess. Pay your taxes was the message there. Italian lira was like watching a pogo competition. Personally being able to deal internationally using the euro helped stabilise a lot of our business trades so again quite happy for it to continue.

I also have zero faith in our governments ability to hold court around the world to push for better trade deals. 68 copy deals and counting so far I read.

People believe because we have nuclear weapons we are global influence . Sadly weren’t not .

Working with countries which have similar costs lifestyle aspirations and costs of living has got to be better (easier in the medium term) than trying to compete with low wage economies on the other side of the world.

The basics of trade mean unless we are a high value economy then we need to have low costs. We can’t get as low as Singapore,China or Mexico etc etc.

How much faith do you have in high tech high wage promises ? How long before education in this country can be enabled to fill the generational gap needed to allow high education high tech? 20? 30? How much damage and debt by then?

Saying we want something is easy . Implementing is not the same as wishful thinking!

The only other safe option is close the borders . No imports and we all buy British.. how’s that working for North Korea.

We have pulled the rug to make a point without any idea of what to do next! I think you single point of the euro not being a safe bet is extremely weak given the vast array of other factors which will impact our economy . Being out of the eurozone but in Europe gave us the benefit along with the comforting insulation we needed. Risk yes I totally agree with you but in the bigger picture not that great.

I don’t believe isolation will help us and said the complete opposite. Let me be explicit:

I think international trade is critical. The EU is around 450m people out of a global population of about 7,700m people. The 7,250m people who do not live in the EU are seeing faster growth rates than those living in the EU. Every indication is that those growth rates will continue. I think we should be trading with the EU but I also think we should be trading with the 7.250 m outside the EU as well - especially given that the effects of compounding means that they will become much richer. The rest of the world is the future and I don’t think we should be parochial and simply focus on the EU.

The unfortunate fact is that the EU has failed to close and ratify a single substantive trade deal in years (please give an example if I am wrong). The governance process means that deals are hard to create and easy to veto. They tend to get vetoed. There is no credible plan to change that process so I am not sure how that will work out.

Would I like to live in a world where the EU was the future. Definitely. Do I think that compounding growth rates means the rest of the world is where we actually need to be? Unfortunately yes I do…"

The rest of the world’s dynamic country growth is due to both modernisation and cheap exports based on cheap labour costs. In effect the rest of the world is playing catch up to the Europe, USA, Japan etc. They may well all overtake us. My point on high tech reflects this challenge as we cannot hope to compete with the manufacture of cheaper items given our cost base.. ( financial services would struggle to grow sufficiently)

You didn’t answer on your thoughts for the education high tech gap.

The last 68 trade deals we signed mirrored the EU deals so not much of an advantage there with our new found freedom to ratify. Those shackles couldn’t have been that heavy.

It’s trotted out that we will be joining free trade groups in the rest of the world. Looking at the deals with Japan and Australia which are the only real slightly different deals the headline numbers are large but when you examine the detail most of the benefit of that increase is in the hands of those countries not the U.K. By definition if they are making more we are, then we’re increasing our deficit are we not? Yes I know it’s not that simple but the basics are there.

The premise that we therefore open up further similar deals with India China etc seems foolhardy in the extreme.

Once our economy is high value high productivity and we actually increase manufacturing or have a huge uplift in financial services then yes then push for more trade globally but I fail to see where our advantage is on just an open door trade with these new industrialised low wage countries.

Those growing economy’s populations will eventually want flat screen TVs and large water dispensing fridges too but we won’t be making them. Will we finance them? Not a lot of job creation there and only concentrated wealth benefit.

So either we open the doors which you say even against Germany we can’t compete ( they have high overhead costs) so no chance against more dynamic cheaper cost countries, or we close the doors and isolate until we can. That was my point on isolation. I wasn’t saying you wanted it I was saying given our readiness and ability to compete today , your stay safe attitude would lead us there.

How do you envisage we trade today with China etc without just getting into more trade deficits?

Our debt is barely manageable now so increasing deficits will suck more money out of the economy in its most base form. In effect if I give you £10 a day and you give me £5 I will run out of money pretty quickly unless I have a high stake in your factory or your borrowing the £10 off me on high rates. Simplistic I know.

If we want to be a global player ultimately what are we selling today that will improve our trade balance and how much do we need to sell? For example If say JCB growth continues at it present rate in China they will increase production there not in the U.K. in return our access made us attractive to car giants being part of the single market. In effect the question in the short and medium term is, what is our USP on a global scale? It’s not cheap labour or land costs and definitely not access to a wealthy market on our doorstep. Some high tech is here but definitely not enough.

I’m all for global trade but the deals so far don’t look very promising. Again who’s in charge of our direction matters here. I don’t see any signs of anyone in parliament being fit for that purpose.

MPs work on four to five year cycles and how best to avoid blame. They won’t take the long term strong high risk decisions needed.

Also this country’s short term attitude to investment has hindered us for generations. You only have to look at our infrastructure. Low investment in bricks and mortar but great dividends.

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By *irldnCouple  over a year ago

Brighton


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)

What about the other 8%?"

Too busy on Fab perving at pics to fill in surveys

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By *I TwoCouple  over a year ago

Always travelling


"According to recent yougov figures, here are the views of Brits on how Brexit is going:

Going well: 18% (-7)

Going badly: 53% (+15)

Neither: 21% (-4)"

And I suppose 50% of the 18% didn't really understand the question

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By (user no longer on site)  over a year ago

All of this is a a moot point.

China will be taking over and becoming a super power. Like a lion taking an injured foal. The UK will be the first of many casualties.

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By *uddy laneMan  over a year ago

dudley


"But Tory lobbyists stealing tax payer money to feed their Tory donors with our tax money on dodgy PPE and failed track and trace app is ok to you ?

No it is not OK with me

I do not agree with politicians... MP's taking kick backs to ask questions in the house on behalf of corporate donors to the detriment of the constitutes who put a big fat X by there name.

And by the way I have only ever visited a polling station twice.

We are as dirty as the EU lobbyists. But that’s ok , because they’re British dirt bags.

I know what hasn't changed the 20 odd thousand lobbyists loitering around the European parliament daily."

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