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When Sanctions Hurt
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?"
Do sanctions work? America sanctioned Cuba for 50 YEARS!, Iran too, (after America turned Iran into what it is today through meddling)
Syria venesuala and elsewhere
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?"
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
I've just read both Switzerland and Monaco are acting. Once those two are on board, Mr P's will be getting a bit of ear ache from his now half rich mates.
As for the everyday man and woman - Mr P may well introduce a wealth tax after this excursion is over as he'll have to raise money somehow. The sanctions are massive, the companies prohibiting services are massive - visa, mastercard, apple, pension funds, sovereign wealth funds, oil, gas and others all now exiting. |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. "
what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts "
Should be. But they usually get fucked over by the government. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"this begs the question of what taxes will boris johnski have to implement to repair the damage to our own economy by such a mssive decoupling of foreign interests by uk companies, such is the double edged sword that has been the policy of politicians removing their wealth from the uk while encouraging dubious foreign cash to replace it.  "
How are UK companies being decoupled by foreign companies? They're not. There's only one country being looked at here, Russia. Yes there's a risk for those with Russian exposure, as there is with every other country, though if the UK is seen to be cleaning up shop it can only be seen as a positive for ESG. |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts
Should be. But they usually get fucked over by the government."
i agree but I can’t see a wage cut when most are on minimum wage they will get a rise and the year of the GE they will get a bigger one for there votes |
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By *ostafunMan
over a year ago
near ipswich |
"this begs the question of what taxes will boris johnski have to implement to repair the damage to our own economy by such a mssive decoupling of foreign interests by uk companies, such is the double edged sword that has been the policy of politicians removing their wealth from the uk while encouraging dubious foreign cash to replace it.
How are UK companies being decoupled by foreign companies? They're not. There's only one country being looked at here, Russia. Yes there's a risk for those with Russian exposure, as there is with every other country, though if the UK is seen to be cleaning up shop it can only be seen as a positive for ESG."
Its good to see shell and BP getting out of Russia its a pity Total doesn't follow suit maybe the french people will put pressure on them to do so by boycotting their filling stations. |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts
Should be. But they usually get fucked over by the government.i agree but I can’t see a wage cut when most are on minimum wage they will get a rise and the year of the GE they will get a bigger one for there votes "
I hope you're right. But the government's track record suggests they don't give a fuck about carers, health workers, nurses, people on disability benefits etc. |
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"this begs the question of what taxes will boris johnski have to implement to repair the damage to our own economy by such a mssive decoupling of foreign interests by uk companies, such is the double edged sword that has been the policy of politicians removing their wealth from the uk while encouraging dubious foreign cash to replace it.
How are UK companies being decoupled by foreign companies? They're not. There's only one country being looked at here, Russia. Yes there's a risk for those with Russian exposure, as there is with every other country, though if the UK is seen to be cleaning up shop it can only be seen as a positive for ESG.Its good to see shell and BP getting out of Russia its a pity Total doesn't follow suit maybe the french people will put pressure on them to do so by boycotting their filling stations."
A rare agreement from me. |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts
Should be. But they usually get fucked over by the government.i agree but I can’t see a wage cut when most are on minimum wage they will get a rise and the year of the GE they will get a bigger one for there votes
I hope you're right. But the government's track record suggests they don't give a fuck about carers, health workers, nurses, people on disability benefits etc."
after the public support they got through covid I don’t think they have much of a choice if they want to win the next GE |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"this begs the question of what taxes will boris johnski have to implement to repair the damage to our own economy by such a mssive decoupling of foreign interests by uk companies, such is the double edged sword that has been the policy of politicians removing their wealth from the uk while encouraging dubious foreign cash to replace it.
How are UK companies being decoupled by foreign companies? They're not. There's only one country being looked at here, Russia. Yes there's a risk for those with Russian exposure, as there is with every other country, though if the UK is seen to be cleaning up shop it can only be seen as a positive for ESG.Its good to see shell and BP getting out of Russia its a pity Total doesn't follow suit maybe the french people will put pressure on them to do so by boycotting their filling stations."
I try to keep familiar but have to say what little I know could be written on a postage stamp. Bruno Le Maire apparently made an appearance on TV which might help draw attention. Total seem to be moving in the right direction and fairly quick up until now.. |
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"this begs the question of what taxes will boris johnski have to implement to repair the damage to our own economy by such a mssive decoupling of foreign interests by uk companies, such is the double edged sword that has been the policy of politicians removing their wealth from the uk while encouraging dubious foreign cash to replace it.
How are UK companies being decoupled by foreign companies? They're not. There's only one country being looked at here, Russia. Yes there's a risk for those with Russian exposure, as there is with every other country, though if the UK is seen to be cleaning up shop it can only be seen as a positive for ESG."
the massive decoupling from foreign companies that we are witnessing this week will massively impact the uk economy. it's already written down a third of BP; combined with the effect on companies whose businesses are intertwined with companies which have been sanctioned then the looming cost of living crisis forcast to comence in april is now being supercharged. but don't let your economic naivety and political gullibility spoil your lunch. |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts
Should be. But they usually get fucked over by the government.i agree but I can’t see a wage cut when most are on minimum wage they will get a rise and the year of the GE they will get a bigger one for there votes
I hope you're right. But the government's track record suggests they don't give a fuck about carers, health workers, nurses, people on disability benefits etc.after the public support they got through covid I don’t think they have much of a choice if they want to win the next GE "
I hope you're right. |
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"Sanctions might take effect over months or years but it's not stopping the slaughter of innocent Ukrainian men, women and children today."
Indeed.
They become a card to be played during any peace negotiations. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"this begs the question of what taxes will boris johnski have to implement to repair the damage to our own economy by such a mssive decoupling of foreign interests by uk companies, such is the double edged sword that has been the policy of politicians removing their wealth from the uk while encouraging dubious foreign cash to replace it.
How are UK companies being decoupled by foreign companies? They're not. There's only one country being looked at here, Russia. Yes there's a risk for those with Russian exposure, as there is with every other country, though if the UK is seen to be cleaning up shop it can only be seen as a positive for ESG.
the massive decoupling from foreign companies that we are witnessing this week will massively impact the uk economy. it's already written down a third of BP; combined with the effect on companies whose businesses are intertwined with companies which have been sanctioned then the looming cost of living crisis forcast to comence in april is now being supercharged. but don't let your economic naivety and political gullibility spoil your lunch. "
Hmmm looming cost of living crisis in Apr? Cost of living has been an issue since Sept/Oct/Nov/Dec '21 when interest rates were either discussed or raised by the Fed/BOE. Russia wasn't even in the picture.
You are not saying anything I haven't already said (only I'll say with less financial knowledge than even me), as they don't have to be intertwined. They simply have to be international and sell goods to be hurt: Nike, Daimler, Coke-a-cola just as example.
This is not simply 'we have oil companies or mega rich in our county', every country does - if you are bothered, Europe is more dependent on Russian gas and oil than us. Cleaning it up will do us good and the companies that operate within them.
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
The Conservative government will do everything it can to protect themselves and their donors from having to pay their fair share of taxes.
If that means carers allowance need to be slashed, and disabled people are forced to try to work. So be it. what are you talking about after all they have been through with covid caters will be getting a pay rise not wage cuts
Should be. But they usually get fucked over by the government.i agree but I can’t see a wage cut when most are on minimum wage they will get a rise and the year of the GE they will get a bigger one for there votes
I hope you're right. But the government's track record suggests they don't give a fuck about carers, health workers, nurses, people on disability benefits etc.after the public support they got through covid I don’t think they have much of a choice if they want to win the next GE
I hope you're right."
I hope so, too. But, like you, I'm not inclined to believe it until I see it.
And it'll have to be a pay increase that exceeds the rate of inflation - which, we're told, could reach 8%.
If it doesn't, it'll be a pay cut. |
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"I hope so, too. But, like you, I'm not inclined to believe it until I see it.
And it'll have to be a pay increase that exceeds the rate of inflation - which, we're told, could reach 8%.
If it doesn't, it'll be a pay cut."
this |
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the prediction that i made 3 days ago has now landed and rising costs have been supercharged by sanctions. they WILL continue to do so as various stock markets collapse and comodities go stratospheric. people hold on ....  |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"the prediction that i made 3 days ago has now landed and rising costs have been supercharged by sanctions. they WILL continue to do so as various stock markets collapse and comodities go stratospheric. people hold on .... "
You over simplify things to the extreme, anyone could predict rising costs.
Sanctions have little to do with it. War does and the mass exodus of 1,000,000 people (not producing wheat, grains, aluminium, sunflower oil), along with the threat of nuclear disaster, companies pulling out of selling to Russia and our pensions exiting.
The pandemic gave us bottlenecks, supply issues and the high prices we have now. Any future prices will only be in part due to sanctions, they'll mostly be the result of a global objection of war.
What is the alternative - no sanctions send in the troops, keep using Russian ships, oil, and freight? |
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"the prediction that i made 3 days ago has now landed and rising costs have been supercharged by sanctions. they WILL continue to do so as various stock markets collapse and comodities go stratospheric. people hold on ....
You over simplify things to the extreme, anyone could predict rising costs.
Sanctions have little to do with it. War does and the mass exodus of 1,000,000 people (not producing wheat, grains, aluminium, sunflower oil), along with the threat of nuclear disaster, companies pulling out of selling to Russia and our pensions exiting.
The pandemic gave us bottlenecks, supply issues and the high prices we have now. Any future prices will only be in part due to sanctions, they'll mostly be the result of a global objection of war.
What is the alternative - no sanctions send in the troops, keep using Russian ships, oil, and freight? "
you are now accusing me of being against sanctions which couldn't be further from the truth. i am merely correcting your unfounded opinion that comes across as saying 'sanctions won't affect us in this country' when they most certainly will and are already in a very dramatic way. this is irrefutable fact. hope this helps. |
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
There have been major changes in the level of sanctions against Russia, since I first made my post. Fair enough; they're necessary.
Clearly, things are getting more serious and the pain we all knew was coming, is starting to be noticed.
It's a bit like the tide going out before a tsunami.
Obviously, those with enough wealth to isolate them from the worst of what's to come, will cope; they don't live in the same reality as the poor and disadvantaged.
But, I ask again - what about those people?
Beyond large price increases, shortages and rationing are being spoken of by economists who know what they're talking about.
What measures should the government take to avoid even greater suffering than austerity and the pandemic have caused?
I wonder if they can improve their track record, so far?
If you think it doesn't need to be improved, you might want to explain to the rest of us why the 5th (or 6th) richest country on the planet had, in 2020/21, slightly over 2.5 million people needing help from a foodbank.
That's over 600,000 more than 2019/20.
There are "only" 1.37 million people unemployed in the UK.
That's a difference of 1.13 million people who have a job - but still rely on food banks.
Not to put too fine a point on it; WTF are they going to do, struggling as they already are, when they can't afford to heat their homes, or run their cars (if they have one).
Or does none of it matter - because it's only a small fraction of the overall population who are going to get hammered?
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
Do sanctions work? America sanctioned Cuba for 50 YEARS!, Iran too, (after America turned Iran into what it is today through meddling)
Syria venesuala and elsewhere
"
Those sanctions were not on this scale so not sure we can compare and say they won’t work. |
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"Clearly, to do real damage to Russia via economic sanctions, is going to cause those of us inflicting them - as, indeed, we should be - some economic pain, too.
However, that burden is not - as usual - going to be equally borne.
So, should anything be done to help the poorest people in the UK ride the sanctions out?
Or will they be left to suffer them - like they were left to suffer 10 years of austerity?
Before the Russian invasion, millions of UK citizens were already facing the "heating or eating" dilemma.
I understand how there may be reluctance to spend yet more public money - especially after so much of it was so easily lost to fraud from the government's Covid schemes.
But at the very least, should the children of the poor not be looked after?
Do sanctions work? America sanctioned Cuba for 50 YEARS!, Iran too, (after America turned Iran into what it is today through meddling)
Syria venesuala and elsewhere
Those sanctions were not on this scale so not sure we can compare and say they won’t work. "
Obviously the people of the Ukraine are being hit much worse but I also feel bad for the innocent people of Russia who had nothing to do with this situation yet are also going to suffer from this appalling situation. |
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By *V-Alice OP TV/TS
over a year ago
Ayr |
"I think the scale of global sanctions has been a surprise to all. Russia is likely now the most sanctioned country on Earth."
It is - but how long for? If their economy doesn't collapse in a month, or a year - or longer - what happens?
Clearly, what the people of the Ukraine are going through is worse than what anyone here is.
However, you can bet your life that, whenever sanctions do finally work, it won't be the poor people of the UK that get the credit for bearing the brunt of the pain. |
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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago
yumsville |
"I think the scale of global sanctions has been a surprise to all. Russia is likely now the most sanctioned country on Earth.
It is - but how long for? If their economy doesn't collapse in a month, or a year - or longer - what happens?
Clearly, what the people of the Ukraine are going through is worse than what anyone here is.
However, you can bet your life that, whenever sanctions do finally work, it won't be the poor people of the UK that get the credit for bearing the brunt of the pain."
Hopefully Sunak will find something in the coffers or gain lending from the world bank maybe...
It's already reported that goods in Russia have already seen basic essentials increase 10% from last week. One that stood out was televisions being 15% higher. Their only trading parter now is China and it will really be a test to see where they sit and where the strength of West & East trading is in the scope of all this. By that I mean could China move to undermine US/Euro relations or will peace be negotiated.
US is looking to sanction Uranium as a result of Russian/Ukraine nuclear moves. |
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By *bernathCouple
over a year ago
Gloucestershire |
It's getting faster now, because of this new reality, Markets are shifting from Russia and looking at alternative places to do business.
the UAE and Saudi Arabia were holding out, but they now realise, now that Russia is out of the picture, everyone will be buying gas and oil from them, so they will be making more money, and they will need to open the Taps. Because even they know that if you don't we end up in recession just like 2008.
It would be Economic Suicide for China to continue a relationship with Russia now. I don't think they want a repeat of the Cold War either. So tick tock goes the clock. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It's getting faster now, because of this new reality, Markets are shifting from Russia and looking at alternative places to do business.
the UAE and Saudi Arabia were holding out, but they now realise, now that Russia is out of the picture, everyone will be buying gas and oil from them, so they will be making more money, and they will need to open the Taps. Because even they know that if you don't we end up in recession just like 2008.
It would be Economic Suicide for China to continue a relationship with Russia now. I don't think they want a repeat of the Cold War either. So tick tock goes the clock. "
Agree,China will probably do a bit of posturing but will not support Russia in any meaningful capacity.
Actually think Russia might end up like NK entirely reliant on China have a feeling this whole wars so the Russian people don’t realise that until its too late. |
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