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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
The profits are now so high that any tax will not touch pension dividends. Enough is enough with this government. Billions for their mates but the struggling can go fuck themselves.
Still the elderly can sit on a bus all day to keep warm.
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"The profits are now so high that any tax will not touch pension dividends. Enough is enough with this government. Billions for their mates but the struggling can go fuck themselves.
Still the elderly can sit on a bus all day to keep warm.
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it's okay. They can sit on the jus because of the pass Boris out in place (he didn't for that person btw. But has allowed younger old people to keep warm on buses) |
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Soaring energy prices but Shell post record quarterly profits....3 TIMES that of the same period last year. between them and BP they're on over £12bn for 3 months!Greedy bastards! That tells me the govt should be able to set the price cap at 50% lower and not have any damning effect on their profits. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Soaring energy prices but Shell post record quarterly profits....3 TIMES that of the same period last year. between them and BP they're on over £12bn for 3 months!Greedy bastards! That tells me the govt should be able to set the price cap at 50% lower and not have any damning effect on their profits. "
Yeah but Boris and Richi and chums very likely have a chunk of shares so they don’t see the problem here! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Soaring energy prices but Shell post record quarterly profits....3 TIMES that of the same period last year. between them and BP they're on over £12bn for 3 months!Greedy bastards! That tells me the govt should be able to set the price cap at 50% lower and not have any damning effect on their profits.
Yeah but Boris and Richi and chums very likely have a chunk of shares so they don’t see the problem here!"
Interestingly the majority of the top twenty shareholders are American funds.
I can’t see them wanting to pay the windfall tax and I’m sure they have a sizeable lobby.
I suspected Mogg’s investment firm of having an interest but he doesn’t. No the tax he saves in no longer being registered in the U.K. is invested mostly abroad including the Far East and India and nowhere near the U.K. . Brilliant isn’t it. |
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By *I TwoCouple
over a year ago
all around |
"But for God’s sake nobody suggest a windfall tax to help people who are struggling. Just think of the poor shareholders and those executive bonuses!"
I thought that would be a good idea,but I do tend to agree with the government (shock horror I know) that to do so and to use it to give financial help would be a very short term fix and could probably be inflationary but allowing the companies to reinvest will benefit us all later rather than sooner.
Short of invading Russia and taking their oil and gas I don't see an easy answer |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"But for God’s sake nobody suggest a windfall tax to help people who are struggling. Just think of the poor shareholders and those executive bonuses!
I thought that would be a good idea,but I do tend to agree with the government (shock horror I know) that to do so and to use it to give financial help would be a very short term fix and could probably be inflationary but allowing the companies to reinvest will benefit us all later rather than sooner.
Short of invading Russia and taking their oil and gas I don't see an easy answer "
Except the CEOs have said they would invest anyway if there was a windfall tax as the level of profits are unprecedented and were not forecast so future investment plans are not dependent! |
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"But for God’s sake nobody suggest a windfall tax to help people who are struggling. Just think of the poor shareholders and those executive bonuses!
I thought that would be a good idea,but I do tend to agree with the government (shock horror I know) that to do so and to use it to give financial help would be a very short term fix and could probably be inflationary but allowing the companies to reinvest will benefit us all later rather than sooner.
Short of invading Russia and taking their oil and gas I don't see an easy answer
Except the CEOs have said they would invest anyway if there was a windfall tax as the level of profits are unprecedented and were not forecast so future investment plans are not dependent!"
there's a fear that windfall taxes take away the incentive to invest. Not sure if that's hugely believable.
The only sympathy I have with oil companies is that it wasn't that long ago that oil prices were negative. They work in a volatile market. Be more interesting to know what their 12 month was versus the average. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"But for God’s sake nobody suggest a windfall tax to help people who are struggling. Just think of the poor shareholders and those executive bonuses!
I thought that would be a good idea,but I do tend to agree with the government (shock horror I know) that to do so and to use it to give financial help would be a very short term fix and could probably be inflationary but allowing the companies to reinvest will benefit us all later rather than sooner.
Short of invading Russia and taking their oil and gas I don't see an easy answer
Except the CEOs have said they would invest anyway if there was a windfall tax as the level of profits are unprecedented and were not forecast so future investment plans are not dependent!there's a fear that windfall taxes take away the incentive to invest. Not sure if that's hugely believable.
The only sympathy I have with oil companies is that it wasn't that long ago that oil prices were negative. They work in a volatile market. Be more interesting to know what their 12 month was versus the average. "
I would argue “we” should look at 10-20 year cycles and map that against investment profiles. The huge amounts involved are planned and executed over prolonged periods. Budgeting for these huge projects will have to take account of price per barrel volatility etc. |
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Windfall tax will affect dividends and more so...share prices. Therefore my and your pension pots which took a hit in recent years as oil prices fell.
It will NOT affect directors bonuses....they get those regardless of profit/losses.
It MAY speed up the investment in new energy resources and renewables.
It is also not logical....if we impose extra taxes on larger than expected profits then should we not give them money if profits are lower?? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
60% of BP’s shares are owned by foreign investment companies so U.K. pension funds are not as heavily involved as they used to be so the pension issue is mute.
The bonuses as others have said will be paid due to the massive increase in earnings and profits .
They won’t stop investment as that’s how they grow and generate profits. They can also due to U.K. s generous tax regime offset a huge proportion of that investment as a tax right off.
A windfall tax is appropriate and a measured benefit for the U.K. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It’s the utility companies which need to have the windfall tax… they are the ones ramping up the prices to the household…. The oil and gas companies who are producing the commodity are only selling at market prices… |
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the market doesn't function so that notion is irrelevant. a windfall tax on those profits posted would pay for every house in the country to have grid tied solar panel systems fitted for free, but the government aren't interested in investing in this country. they just want to sell everything they can to foreign entities ensuring this country has no control over it's economy. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Windfall tax will affect dividends and more so...share prices. Therefore my and your pension pots which took a hit in recent years as oil prices fell.
It will NOT affect directors bonuses....they get those regardless of profit/losses.
It MAY speed up the investment in new energy resources and renewables.
It is also not logical....if we impose extra taxes on larger than expected profits then should we not give them money if profits are lower??"
I hope your pension fund and share portfolio is more diversified than having too heavy an exposure on one industry sector (in this case oil & gas) or else that is a really poor investment strategy! |
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"But for God’s sake nobody suggest a windfall tax to help people who are struggling. Just think of the poor shareholders and those executive bonuses!"
A windfall tax is simply a tax on pension funds and investors . It is hardly the brightest of policies if the end result encourages companies to move their head quarters elsewhere. Maybe we should be greatfull for the amount of tax that these large corporations already pay . They do not use the NHS , claim benefits or expect pension payments . They provide employment for many people both directly and indirectly in addition to providing pensioners with income. It is hardly a good policy to inflict long term damage on a company or to implement a policy which would result in them leaving the UK.
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"But for God’s sake nobody suggest a windfall tax to help people who are struggling. Just think of the poor shareholders and those executive bonuses! A windfall tax is simply a tax on pension funds and investors . It is hardly the brightest of policies if the end result encourages companies to move their head quarters elsewhere. Maybe we should be greatfull for the amount of tax that these large corporations already pay . They do not use the NHS , claim benefits or expect pension payments . They provide employment for many people both directly and indirectly in addition to providing pensioners with income. It is hardly a good policy to inflict long term damage on a company or to implement a policy which would result in them leaving the UK. "
hi, thanks for the reply. the silent majority don't care a jot about the returns for a handful of investors. what they care about is pensioners being unable to heat their homes or buy food. hope this helps.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment… |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"It’s the utility companies which need to have the windfall tax… they are the ones ramping up the prices to the household…. The oil and gas companies who are producing the commodity are only selling at market prices… "
The utilities sell at market price which has doubled because the market price of oil and gas gas doubled!!
The utilities don’t set the wholesale price. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment… "
They can’t extract anything without the say so of the U.K. government and any rules they set. They could register on the moon but still be liable to production tax in the U.K.
They don’t pay corporation tax and haven’t paid anything for years. In fact they’ve received tax credits.
Don’t fall for the we may leave threat it’s not physically possible to move the oil and gas fields. |
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"Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment…
They can’t extract anything without the say so of the U.K. government and any rules they set. They could register on the moon but still be liable to production tax in the U.K.
They don’t pay corporation tax and haven’t paid anything for years. In fact they’ve received tax credits.
Don’t fall for the we may leave threat it’s not physically possible to move the oil and gas fields. "
You clearly do not know the first thing about the oil industry. There's a point at which the economics of production render it more profitable to leave the oil in the ground. BP paid £2.511 billion in royalties, corporation tax, excise duty etc in 2020 and BP and Shell paid 25% of all UK company dividends which goes towards the pensions funds of nurses, doctors, police, teachers. Dividend income which is also taxable. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment…
They can’t extract anything without the say so of the U.K. government and any rules they set. They could register on the moon but still be liable to production tax in the U.K.
They don’t pay corporation tax and haven’t paid anything for years. In fact they’ve received tax credits.
Don’t fall for the we may leave threat it’s not physically possible to move the oil and gas fields.
You clearly do not know the first thing about the oil industry. There's a point at which the economics of production render it more profitable to leave the oil in the ground. BP paid £2.511 billion in royalties, corporation tax, excise duty etc in 2020 and BP and Shell paid 25% of all UK company dividends which goes towards the pensions funds of nurses, doctors, police, teachers. Dividend income which is also taxable."
May I ask where you get these figures from. A simple companies house search proves this absolute bull... |
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"Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment…
They can’t extract anything without the say so of the U.K. government and any rules they set. They could register on the moon but still be liable to production tax in the U.K.
They don’t pay corporation tax and haven’t paid anything for years. In fact they’ve received tax credits.
Don’t fall for the we may leave threat it’s not physically possible to move the oil and gas fields.
You clearly do not know the first thing about the oil industry. There's a point at which the economics of production render it more profitable to leave the oil in the ground. BP paid £2.511 billion in royalties, corporation tax, excise duty etc in 2020 and BP and Shell paid 25% of all UK company dividends which goes towards the pensions funds of nurses, doctors, police, teachers. Dividend income which is also taxable."
. Well said. The tax paid on the dividends by shareholders is very substantial. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment…
They can’t extract anything without the say so of the U.K. government and any rules they set. They could register on the moon but still be liable to production tax in the U.K.
They don’t pay corporation tax and haven’t paid anything for years. In fact they’ve received tax credits.
Don’t fall for the we may leave threat it’s not physically possible to move the oil and gas fields.
You clearly do not know the first thing about the oil industry. There's a point at which the economics of production render it more profitable to leave the oil in the ground. BP paid £2.511 billion in royalties, corporation tax, excise duty etc in 2020 and BP and Shell paid 25% of all UK company dividends which goes towards the pensions funds of nurses, doctors, police, teachers. Dividend income which is also taxable."
Shell’s recent extra high dividends came off the back of their sell off of some American gas holdings.
The U.K. shell is 60% owned by the Dutch registered company. The largest shareholders in the parent company are American so those dividends were paid by shell but mostly paid to overseas holdings. Also No, the pensioners in this country do not “rely” on Shell or BP for that matter as they are also majority owned by US investment funds so the vast majority of those funds from dividends went overseas.
As for the tax, the number looks big doesn’t it but it equates to 1.3% of turnover that year. Looks a bit shit compared to the dividends going to the overseas shareholders and knowing the credits being given by U.K. tax payers.
As for leaving oil in the ground you are absolutely right. Rig operating giants such as Ensco and Rowan despite cost saving mergers went bust because of the recent (few years ago) drop in production.
One small fly in that argument is the vast profits being generated by the extraction of oil and gas. How is that revenue generated if they aren’t producing any oil and gas? Cause and effect.
But then I know absolutely nothing. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Windfall taxes eventually will lead to less investment in the extractive industry and probably a move away by the HQ… so more harm in the long run… a nation which is fiscally turbulent attracts less investment…
They can’t extract anything without the say so of the U.K. government and any rules they set. They could register on the moon but still be liable to production tax in the U.K.
They don’t pay corporation tax and haven’t paid anything for years. In fact they’ve received tax credits.
Don’t fall for the we may leave threat it’s not physically possible to move the oil and gas fields.
You clearly do not know the first thing about the oil industry. There's a point at which the economics of production render it more profitable to leave the oil in the ground. BP paid £2.511 billion in royalties, corporation tax, excise duty etc in 2020 and BP and Shell paid 25% of all UK company dividends which goes towards the pensions funds of nurses, doctors, police, teachers. Dividend income which is also taxable.. Well said. The tax paid on the dividends by shareholders is very substantial. "
Great news for American and Norwegian government then! Vanguard , Black Rock and the Norwegian pension wealth funds don’t pay tax in the U.K. What a bugger!! |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
It’s laughable that people are happy for The USA government and the Norwegian government to get richer from our oil fields but they don’t want the U.K. government to get any cash.
Well that is definitely a very successful repeated bullshit spin by her majesties governments.
I can’t believe how people just lap it up.
The baby boomers must be the most easily lead generation since the Middle Ages. Let’s hope the millennials start to think for themselves.
People think that if big business support the tories they are clever industrialists so must know which government is best for the country. The reality is the industrialists and major investors know which government will help them keep more than their fair share of cash. |
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"It’s laughable that people are happy for The USA government and the Norwegian government to get richer from our oil fields but they don’t want the U.K. government to get any cash.
Well that is definitely a very successful repeated bullshit spin by her majesties governments.
I can’t believe how people just lap it up.
The baby boomers must be the most easily lead generation since the Middle Ages. Let’s hope the millennials start to think for themselves.
People think that if big business support the tories they are clever industrialists so must know which government is best for the country. The reality is the industrialists and major investors know which government will help them keep more than their fair share of cash. "
shouldn't be be looking at witholding tax then to close this gap? |
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