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High skill high wage economy
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
ONS statement.
“In 2017, around 16% of all those in employment aged 16 to 64 years were overeducated (had more education than required for their job); the corresponding figure for graduates (with first degree or equivalent) was around 31%.”
So if this is our well over educated numbers right now why don’t we have a greater proportion of high tech industry and higher wages in our economy? Is the rhetoric of doing better with education to create a high tech well educated jobs market just words? It appears we have smart people but no related smart industry. How do we move forward? |
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By *JB1954Man
over a year ago
Reading |
Perhaps , I can offer my opinion . I worked until retirement. As either a installation / commissioning engineer for automation machines. My qualifications were 4 years at college doing as my apprenticeship. Ending up as a electrical technician. Most companies do not have graduates in electrical commissioning , installation roles for two reasons. First no practical hands on experience. Second graduates only want to use keyboard skills . Which again if commissioning machinery . You need to know if wiring etc is correct , causing fault why machines not working. Companies do not want to pay two people when they can just pay one. So graduates are often yes over qualified to do work required . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Might it be because the supply side is skewed to certain skills and courses and those may not match the demand side for the high paying work?
Maybe this table helps to explain it?
Subject 2019 graduates
Business studies 141,125
Medicine and biological studies 159,520
Social studies 81,440
Education 66,835
Creative arts 62,930
Engineering & technology 52,560
Law 33,235
Computer science 31,805
Languages 31,300
Physical sciences 29,025
History and philosophy 26,895
Communications 20,015
Architecture 19,430
Dentistry 19,050
Maths 13,260
Agriculture 6,560
Veterinary science 1,645
Not sure how well paid the jobs resulting from some of these categories are?
Computing for example is well below demand. And dropout rates are high (10%) - whilst those who emerge can earn very high salaries after only a few years (i’ve got a few yearly 20s graduates in my team fabulous salaries with in demand engineering skills) there are simply not enough of them to satisfy demand in the market.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Might it be because the supply side is skewed to certain skills and courses and those may not match the demand side for the high paying work?
Maybe this table helps to explain it?
Subject 2019 graduates
Business studies 141,125
Medicine and biological studies 159,520
Social studies 81,440
Education 66,835
Creative arts 62,930
Engineering & technology 52,560
Law 33,235
Computer science 31,805
Languages 31,300
Physical sciences 29,025
History and philosophy 26,895
Communications 20,015
Architecture 19,430
Dentistry 19,050
Maths 13,260
Agriculture 6,560
Veterinary science 1,645
Not sure how well paid the jobs resulting from some of these categories are?
Computing for example is well below demand. And dropout rates are high (10%) - whilst those who emerge can earn very high salaries after only a few years (i’ve got a few yearly 20s graduates in my team fabulous salaries with in demand engineering skills) there are simply not enough of them to satisfy demand in the market.
"
Wait a minute, I thought we were always being told that everyone was studying useless media degrees (or is that wrapped up in Communications in which case not a huge %) |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
“High skill high wage” is a lovely soundbite for Johnson. Bit like “build back better”. Pretty meaningless really.
Having left the protection of the EU we now have to compete with emerging economies, particularly those in Asia. Full of smart people but lower wages. Why do you think Dyson shifted a chunk of his company (as well as tax reasons).
Regardless, there will always be a need for low skilled low paid jobs. So who is going to do those? |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
All good posts but why if we have so many intelligent people isn’t our economy doing better already. Yes IT specifically needs more people but is that the only qualification that will make a difference ?
Interesting how many are doing business studies . It’s the cover all so you can do a bit of everything but don’t excel at anything until you’ve done sone time actually in business. Im not knocking it as it’s a positive degree but do many of the applicants just fantasise and see themselves working in Goldman Sachs after four years study?
No mention of apprenticeships which I personally think should be pushed and supported much more. I can say from experience it’s one of the better run government departments. Not everyone can be keyboard warriors and we definitely need some skilled hands on doers. The young workers do however need to be paid more.
Could it be we are actually making good money already in this country but just not seeing it ? It followed if we aren’t seeing it it’s being invested elsewhere.
An aspirational economy is a good thing but it seems to me we are having trouble just keeping what we have.
I’m asking lots of questions to debate because I don’t know the answers and thought it might be interesting to get others views. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
“Not everyone can be keyboard warriors and we definitely need some skilled hands on doers. The young workers do however need to be paid more.”
Am tired so this may not be coherent.
Every country needs all types of workers doing all types of jobs. Someone has to be a plumber, electrician, brick layer, road sweeper, cleaner, care worker, social worker, teacher, nurse, fruit pickers, abattoir workers, truckers, security, labourers, factory workers, etc etc. Not everyone can have a high paid job and like it or not, some jobs simply do (rightly) pay more than others.
All those jobs require skills but a nurse is not as skilled as a doctor. A brickie is not as skilled as an architect etc etc
And on the point of being higher paid. Yes and no. Nobody would want to deny another worker better pay but, for example, should plumbers really be charging £100 call outs and £60 an hour? A lot of trades supported Brexit because they wanted rid of Polish Trades who were “undercutting them”. The reality was that often these Polish trades were actually just charging a fairer fee for their services.
The counter argument was often “but they don’t have the same lifestyle costs as us” so perhaps you chose the wrong profession if you expect to be on that sort of money!
Sorry if that upsets anyone, just saying it as it is (not all trades are the same I know). |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"“Not everyone can be keyboard warriors and we definitely need some skilled hands on doers. The young workers do however need to be paid more.”
Am tired so this may not be coherent.
Every country needs all types of workers doing all types of jobs. Someone has to be a plumber, electrician, brick layer, road sweeper, cleaner, care worker, social worker, teacher, nurse, fruit pickers, abattoir workers, truckers, security, labourers, factory workers, etc etc. Not everyone can have a high paid job and like it or not, some jobs simply do (rightly) pay more than others.
All those jobs require skills but a nurse is not as skilled as a doctor. A brickie is not as skilled as an architect etc etc
And on the point of being higher paid. Yes and no. Nobody would want to deny another worker better pay but, for example, should plumbers really be charging £100 call outs and £60 an hour? A lot of trades supported Brexit because they wanted rid of Polish Trades who were “undercutting them”. The reality was that often these Polish trades were actually just charging a fairer fee for their services.
The counter argument was often “but they don’t have the same lifestyle costs as us” so perhaps you chose the wrong profession if you expect to be on that sort of money!
Sorry if that upsets anyone, just saying it as it is (not all trades are the same I know)."
Yes sorry I maybe didn’t explain that properly We take on technical apprentices and the pay the 18 year olds can expect from the scheme is quite simply pathetic bordering on exploitation. We up their wages to above national living to encourage their commitment to their course.
I agree not everyone can be on high wages you are right. The fact that some are on wages so low to be disgraceful such as care workers is also a bad situation.
I don’t believe the gap between the average worker and a CEO evident in this country is acceptable though.
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"“Not everyone can be keyboard warriors and we definitely need some skilled hands on doers. The young workers do however need to be paid more.”
Am tired so this may not be coherent.
Every country needs all types of workers doing all types of jobs. Someone has to be a plumber, electrician, brick layer, road sweeper, cleaner, care worker, social worker, teacher, nurse, fruit pickers, abattoir workers, truckers, security, labourers, factory workers, etc etc. Not everyone can have a high paid job and like it or not, some jobs simply do (rightly) pay more than others.
All those jobs require skills but a nurse is not as skilled as a doctor. A brickie is not as skilled as an architect etc etc
And on the point of being higher paid. Yes and no. Nobody would want to deny another worker better pay but, for example, should plumbers really be charging £100 call outs and £60 an hour? A lot of trades supported Brexit because they wanted rid of Polish Trades who were “undercutting them”. The reality was that often these Polish trades were actually just charging a fairer fee for their services.
The counter argument was often “but they don’t have the same lifestyle costs as us” so perhaps you chose the wrong profession if you expect to be on that sort of money!
Sorry if that upsets anyone, just saying it as it is (not all trades are the same I know).
Yes sorry I maybe didn’t explain that properly We take on technical apprentices and the pay the 18 year olds can expect from the scheme is quite simply pathetic bordering on exploitation. We up their wages to above national living to encourage their commitment to their course.
I agree not everyone can be on high wages you are right. The fact that some are on wages so low to be disgraceful such as care workers is also a bad situation.
I don’t believe the gap between the average worker and a CEO evident in this country is acceptable though.
"
Agreed  |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Question is. What defines high skill, and what’s considered high wage?"
Well high skill is dependant on which degree you believe are worthy and which industry is rated as more important.
As for wage a decent wage would possibly be the ability to buy two cars have two holidays with a bit to spare but that can vary depending on where you live so £60-80k in Preston will be alright but Kensington perhaps not.
A good wage would perhaps be the ability to send all your children to boarding school along with the multiple holidays etc . So is that £150-250k range? Again maybe not in Kensington.
Location and subsequent residual disposable income perhaps defines a good wage.
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
Over educated Really means I didn't need to go to into do this job (most of my colleagues didn't)
It doesn't mean I can do a better job.
Of we look at our immigration policy it seems to be focussed on more technical roles, so if imagine the 20pc who are over educated are missing other key skills. We have a supply (of talent) issue and so it's not a suprose companies aren't fighting to create more roles. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Question is. What defines high skill, and what’s considered high wage?
Well high skill is dependant on which degree you believe are worthy and which industry is rated as more important.
As for wage a decent wage would possibly be the ability to buy two cars have two holidays with a bit to spare but that can vary depending on where you live so £60-80k in Preston will be alright but Kensington perhaps not.
A good wage would perhaps be the ability to send all your children to boarding school along with the multiple holidays etc . So is that £150-250k range? Again maybe not in Kensington.
Location and subsequent residual disposable income perhaps defines a good wage.
"
A very high bar. But a starting point.
What proportion of the workforce do you think is in that range today? What proportion should we be aiming for? And as we level up those below the line today, what about those far below it? What should they be aspiring too? Is everyone capable of achieving those goals given a fairer more level playing field of opportunity? |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"Question is. What defines high skill, and what’s considered high wage?
Well high skill is dependant on which degree you believe are worthy and which industry is rated as more important.
As for wage a decent wage would possibly be the ability to buy two cars have two holidays with a bit to spare but that can vary depending on where you live so £60-80k in Preston will be alright but Kensington perhaps not.
A good wage would perhaps be the ability to send all your children to boarding school along with the multiple holidays etc . So is that £150-250k range? Again maybe not in Kensington.
Location and subsequent residual disposable income perhaps defines a good wage.
A very high bar. But a starting point.
What proportion of the workforce do you think is in that range today? What proportion should we be aiming for? And as we level up those below the line today, what about those far below it? What should they be aspiring too? Is everyone capable of achieving those goals given a fairer more level playing field of opportunity? "
It’s less than one in ten as the Mail stated that the top ten percent earners pay most of the U.K. tax. The 10% bar starts at around £55k
To get in the top 5% you have to earn over £150k I think. It’s around there.
It proved the average paid to acceptable paid workers are carrying the greatest burden on tax among individuals.
A CEO earning fifty times his average worker or billions in dividends paid to shareholders whilst a pay freeze for the workers is in place would in my view be a potential starting point to lift up the lower echelons of workers pay.
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"“High skill high wage” is a lovely soundbite for Johnson. Bit like “build back better”. Pretty meaningless really.
Having left the protection of the EU we now have to compete with emerging economies, particularly those in Asia. Full of smart people but lower wages. Why do you think Dyson shifted a chunk of his company (as well as tax reasons).
Regardless, there will always be a need for low skilled low paid jobs. So who is going to do those?"
Also those who do have the skills in demand have the ability to work worldwide. And many of them see how much of a shithole the UK is becoming under the Tories. I class myself in that bracket. I work in IT, was employed by (the UK arm of) a US company. But relocated to Barbados as frankly between brexit, covidiots, and the Tories I’d had enough. I currently am still technically employed in the UK, but am doing all I can to sever ties economically with the UK. Alas not quick enough as the GBP/USD has fallen 10% in the last few months before I have been able to sell my house in the UK.
I recently left the company above and after a break not working now been looking for a new job. And literally the world is my oyster. I’ve had offers from companies from Singapore to Canada. I’m not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but just to say that those in demand at the top of their fields have their pick of the world and the UK is less and less attractive.
And the weather here is better, and the rum cheap
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"“High skill high wage” is a lovely soundbite for Johnson. Bit like “build back better”. Pretty meaningless really.
Having left the protection of the EU we now have to compete with emerging economies, particularly those in Asia. Full of smart people but lower wages. Why do you think Dyson shifted a chunk of his company (as well as tax reasons).
Regardless, there will always be a need for low skilled low paid jobs. So who is going to do those?
Also those who do have the skills in demand have the ability to work worldwide. And many of them see how much of a shithole the UK is becoming under the Tories. I class myself in that bracket. I work in IT, was employed by (the UK arm of) a US company. But relocated to Barbados as frankly between brexit, covidiots, and the Tories I’d had enough. I currently am still technically employed in the UK, but am doing all I can to sever ties economically with the UK. Alas not quick enough as the GBP/USD has fallen 10% in the last few months before I have been able to sell my house in the UK.
I recently left the company above and after a break not working now been looking for a new job. And literally the world is my oyster. I’ve had offers from companies from Singapore to Canada. I’m not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but just to say that those in demand at the top of their fields have their pick of the world and the UK is less and less attractive.
And the weather here is better, and the rum cheap
-Matt"
This fact escapes many when we talk about high skilled and low skilled. In a globally interconnected economy - it is not just the workforce of one nation that ‘we’ compete against. It is literally the whole planet. |
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By *ackal1 OP Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"“High skill high wage” is a lovely soundbite for Johnson. Bit like “build back better”. Pretty meaningless really.
Having left the protection of the EU we now have to compete with emerging economies, particularly those in Asia. Full of smart people but lower wages. Why do you think Dyson shifted a chunk of his company (as well as tax reasons).
Regardless, there will always be a need for low skilled low paid jobs. So who is going to do those?
Also those who do have the skills in demand have the ability to work worldwide. And many of them see how much of a shithole the UK is becoming under the Tories. I class myself in that bracket. I work in IT, was employed by (the UK arm of) a US company. But relocated to Barbados as frankly between brexit, covidiots, and the Tories I’d had enough. I currently am still technically employed in the UK, but am doing all I can to sever ties economically with the UK. Alas not quick enough as the GBP/USD has fallen 10% in the last few months before I have been able to sell my house in the UK.
I recently left the company above and after a break not working now been looking for a new job. And literally the world is my oyster. I’ve had offers from companies from Singapore to Canada. I’m not trying to blow my own trumpet here, but just to say that those in demand at the top of their fields have their pick of the world and the UK is less and less attractive.
And the weather here is better, and the rum cheap
-Matt
This fact escapes many when we talk about high skilled and low skilled. In a globally interconnected economy - it is not just the workforce of one nation that ‘we’ compete against. It is literally the whole planet. "
This is very true and have to totally agree.
India is an example of a country turning out thousands of highly skilled people who will travel and work for less than others across the world. It’s only repeating what brits did in the Middle East and African oil booms. Make good money and send it home. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I would like to know what defines overeducation. If it's just about levels, it's easy to explain it.
Most people take up arts and other courses which have much limited employment opportunities. Looking at the sheer volume of people in Western countries who say they are studying psychology because they are passionate about it, it's no wonder most companies have to bring in Asians to do the jobs which get paid. It's a cultural issue. Any government which tries to nudge people towards STEM courses will face criticism. Asians on the other hand usually see education as a way to find a job that pay for their living. They reserve the weekends to do stuff they are passionate about. |
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"I would like to know what defines overeducation. If it's just about levels, it's easy to explain it.
Most people take up arts and other courses which have much limited employment opportunities. Looking at the sheer volume of people in Western countries who say they are studying psychology because they are passionate about it, it's no wonder most companies have to bring in Asians to do the jobs which get paid. It's a cultural issue. Any government which tries to nudge people towards STEM courses will face criticism. Asians on the other hand usually see education as a way to find a job that pay for their living. They reserve the weekends to do stuff they are passionate about."
iirc (and I only read this yesterday ooops) over education is where you have a higher level of education than the majority of people doing a similar job to you.
I suspect the idea is to say you didn't need (all) your education to do your job. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would like to know what defines overeducation. If it's just about levels, it's easy to explain it.
Most people take up arts and other courses which have much limited employment opportunities. Looking at the sheer volume of people in Western countries who say they are studying psychology because they are passionate about it, it's no wonder most companies have to bring in Asians to do the jobs which get paid. It's a cultural issue. Any government which tries to nudge people towards STEM courses will face criticism. Asians on the other hand usually see education as a way to find a job that pay for their living. They reserve the weekends to do stuff they are passionate about.iirc (and I only read this yesterday ooops) over education is where you have a higher level of education than the majority of people doing a similar job to you.
I suspect the idea is to say you didn't need (all) your education to do your job. "
That makes sense. Lots of people go to university to learn stuff which are worthless in the job market and end up doing a job levels below their education. |
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"I would like to know what defines overeducation. If it's just about levels, it's easy to explain it.
Most people take up arts and other courses which have much limited employment opportunities. Looking at the sheer volume of people in Western countries who say they are studying psychology because they are passionate about it, it's no wonder most companies have to bring in Asians to do the jobs which get paid. It's a cultural issue. Any government which tries to nudge people towards STEM courses will face criticism. Asians on the other hand usually see education as a way to find a job that pay for their living. They reserve the weekends to do stuff they are passionate about.iirc (and I only read this yesterday ooops) over education is where you have a higher level of education than the majority of people doing a similar job to you.
I suspect the idea is to say you didn't need (all) your education to do your job.
That makes sense. Lots of people go to university to learn stuff which are worthless in the job market and end up doing a job levels below their education."
some people may also lack other skills needed. A degree is not the be all and end all.
Again, irrc, there were sciences that had the same level of over education as some other subjects that are usually held up. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I would like to know what defines overeducation. If it's just about levels, it's easy to explain it.
Most people take up arts and other courses which have much limited employment opportunities. Looking at the sheer volume of people in Western countries who say they are studying psychology because they are passionate about it, it's no wonder most companies have to bring in Asians to do the jobs which get paid. It's a cultural issue. Any government which tries to nudge people towards STEM courses will face criticism. Asians on the other hand usually see education as a way to find a job that pay for their living. They reserve the weekends to do stuff they are passionate about.iirc (and I only read this yesterday ooops) over education is where you have a higher level of education than the majority of people doing a similar job to you.
I suspect the idea is to say you didn't need (all) your education to do your job.
That makes sense. Lots of people go to university to learn stuff which are worthless in the job market and end up doing a job levels below their education.some people may also lack other skills needed. A degree is not the be all and end all.
Again, irrc, there were sciences that had the same level of over education as some other subjects that are usually held up. "
Agree |
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"“Not everyone can be keyboard warriors and we definitely need some skilled hands on doers. The young workers do however need to be paid more.”
Am tired so this may not be coherent.
Every country needs all types of workers doing all types of jobs. Someone has to be a plumber, electrician, brick layer, road sweeper, cleaner, care worker, social worker, teacher, nurse, fruit pickers, abattoir workers, truckers, security, labourers, factory workers, etc etc. Not everyone can have a high paid job and like it or not, some jobs simply do (rightly) pay more than others.
All those jobs require skills but a nurse is not as skilled as a doctor. A brickie is not as skilled as an architect etc etc
And on the point of being higher paid. Yes and no. Nobody would want to deny another worker better pay but, for example, should plumbers really be charging £100 call outs and £60 an hour? A lot of trades supported Brexit because they wanted rid of Polish Trades who were “undercutting them”. The reality was that often these Polish trades were actually just charging a fairer fee for their services.
The counter argument was often “but they don’t have the same lifestyle costs as us” so perhaps you chose the wrong profession if you expect to be on that sort of money!
Sorry if that upsets anyone, just saying it as it is (not all trades are the same I know).
Yes sorry I maybe didn’t explain that properly We take on technical apprentices and the pay the 18 year olds can expect from the scheme is quite simply pathetic bordering on exploitation. We up their wages to above national living to encourage their commitment to their course.
I agree not everyone can be on high wages you are right. The fact that some are on wages so low to be disgraceful such as care workers is also a bad situation.
I don’t believe the gap between the average worker and a CEO evident in this country is acceptable though.
"
I was talking to the base commander of Gatwick's air traffic control, they used to pay their apprenticeships £30,000 a year. The only issue was that the student got wasted, then failed the course and the company wasted the money. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"“Not everyone can be keyboard warriors and we definitely need some skilled hands on doers. The young workers do however need to be paid more.”
Am tired so this may not be coherent.
Every country needs all types of workers doing all types of jobs. Someone has to be a plumber, electrician, brick layer, road sweeper, cleaner, care worker, social worker, teacher, nurse, fruit pickers, abattoir workers, truckers, security, labourers, factory workers, etc etc. Not everyone can have a high paid job and like it or not, some jobs simply do (rightly) pay more than others.
All those jobs require skills but a nurse is not as skilled as a doctor. A brickie is not as skilled as an architect etc etc
And on the point of being higher paid. Yes and no. Nobody would want to deny another worker better pay but, for example, should plumbers really be charging £100 call outs and £60 an hour? A lot of trades supported Brexit because they wanted rid of Polish Trades who were “undercutting them”. The reality was that often these Polish trades were actually just charging a fairer fee for their services.
The counter argument was often “but they don’t have the same lifestyle costs as us” so perhaps you chose the wrong profession if you expect to be on that sort of money!
Sorry if that upsets anyone, just saying it as it is (not all trades are the same I know).
Yes sorry I maybe didn’t explain that properly We take on technical apprentices and the pay the 18 year olds can expect from the scheme is quite simply pathetic bordering on exploitation. We up their wages to above national living to encourage their commitment to their course.
I agree not everyone can be on high wages you are right. The fact that some are on wages so low to be disgraceful such as care workers is also a bad situation.
I don’t believe the gap between the average worker and a CEO evident in this country is acceptable though.
I was talking to the base commander of Gatwick's air traffic control, they used to pay their apprenticeships £30,000 a year. The only issue was that the student got wasted, then failed the course and the company wasted the money."
Great story. Are they going to make a movie? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"high skills, high wage economy has been proven to only work if there is also high tax
Where was that proven?"
Well it is logical. Unless slmeone thinks that everyone can be high skilled high earners, then for the whole of society to benefit then there also needs to be a high level of taxation on those high skilled high earners”. The level of taxation falls off as the proportion of earners in the ‘high’ category increases.
Or is that just too simple?
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"Might it be because the supply side is skewed to certain skills and courses and those may not match the demand side for the high paying work?
Maybe this table helps to explain it?
Subject 2019 graduates
Business studies 141,125
Medicine and biological studies 159,520
Social studies 81,440
Education 66,835
Creative arts 62,930
Engineering & technology 52,560
Law 33,235
Computer science 31,805
Languages 31,300
Physical sciences 29,025
History and philosophy 26,895
Communications 20,015
Architecture 19,430
Dentistry 19,050
Maths 13,260
Agriculture 6,560
Veterinary science 1,645
Not sure how well paid the jobs resulting from some of these categories are?
Computing for example is well below demand. And dropout rates are high (10%) - whilst those who emerge can earn very high salaries after only a few years (i’ve got a few yearly 20s graduates in my team fabulous salaries with in demand engineering skills) there are simply not enough of them to satisfy demand in the market.
Be a vet, that's where the money is!
Do career guidance teachers in schools not push kids towards the careers most needed?
"
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
Looong time since I was at school but careers advice was rubbish. It was stuck in the 1960s/70s and all the aspiration amounted to was “get a job in a bank”.
No thanks said I. Had a lovely and very rewarding career since ta v much! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Looong time since I was at school but careers advice was rubbish. It was stuck in the 1960s/70s and all the aspiration amounted to was “get a job in a bank”.
No thanks said I. Had a lovely and very rewarding career since ta v much!"
I think you have to go private if you need any meaningful advice. This is a key area that those who are a disadvantage are further disadvantaged due to lack of or poor advice. Though with google and lots of free advice easily available you could argue it js no linger really needed and the self starter types that benefits from the broad advice can seek it themselves now. |
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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago
Brighton |
"Looong time since I was at school but careers advice was rubbish. It was stuck in the 1960s/70s and all the aspiration amounted to was “get a job in a bank”.
No thanks said I. Had a lovely and very rewarding career since ta v much!
I think you have to go private if you need any meaningful advice. This is a key area that those who are a disadvantage are further disadvantaged due to lack of or poor advice. Though with google and lots of free advice easily available you could argue it js no linger really needed and the self starter types that benefits from the broad advice can seek it themselves now."
Trouble is most kids (might not be most) want to be You Tubers and Influencers these days due to the phenomenal success of a small handful of people. |
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I believe a great deal of “careers advice” these days is delivered by proactively engaging young people from a much younger age.
There are a huge number of programmes and initiatives that engage schools and young people with the careers and jobs available today (not to mention what employers are likely to be looking for in the next 5-10 years).
Sparking the imagination, and nurturing a passion for a particular sector is key to developing the skills for the future
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"Well it is logical..."
Your logic is impeccable. 
But someone said it had been proven, and studying a successful implementation (or a failed attempt) is always instructive.
I should also have asked what level of tax the OP considered to be "high". |
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By *AFKA HovisMan
over a year ago
Sindon Swingdon Swindon |
"high skills, high wage economy has been proven to only work if there is also high tax
Where was that proven?
Well it is logical. Unless slmeone thinks that everyone can be high skilled high earners, then for the whole of society to benefit then there also needs to be a high level of taxation on those high skilled high earners”. The level of taxation falls off as the proportion of earners in the ‘high’ category increases.
Or is that just too simple?
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couldn't you go low tax, high skilled for your locals and then rely on cheap foreign labour for the balance of jobs. Aka Singapore.
I guess there is also a question of how many of the population can't become skilled high earners. The more you get here and the less you need to help, the lower the tax bill per person.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"high skills, high wage economy has been proven to only work if there is also high tax
Where was that proven?
Well it is logical. Unless slmeone thinks that everyone can be high skilled high earners, then for the whole of society to benefit then there also needs to be a high level of taxation on those high skilled high earners”. The level of taxation falls off as the proportion of earners in the ‘high’ category increases.
Or is that just too simple?
couldn't you go low tax, high skilled for your locals and then rely on cheap foreign labour for the balance of jobs. Aka Singapore.
I guess there is also a question of how many of the population can't become skilled high earners. The more you get here and the less you need to help, the lower the tax bill per person.
"
I think that would work in areas where you can skew the bell curve - at a City or metro level - but I wonder if it can work at the level of whole country, especially one with a largish population. The natural distribution makes pushing everyone high up the far more challenging.
Can we take the nvq level 3 botox injector and morph them into a neurosurgeon? Can we take the admin pen pusher who physically signs certificates and turn them into crypto developers? These are silly examples maybe but the type of shifts needed for the vast majority to be at a ‘high skill high wage’ level….. because at a national level we’re still competing on a global scale. So the tamp up would need to be quite dramatic to offset arbitrage.
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"Various countries have tried, but government's found the bigger the wage got, the more of it got offshored to invest in foreign countries or just parked in banks."
Can you give us some examples of where it's been tried?
A few case studies would help people to understand your point. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Well if you're not interested in helping people to understand your point of view, there doesn't seem to be much point in discussing it with you."
Boils down to people who earn lots use the loopholes, but it those are closed the need for high wage/high tax is reduced as everyone pays a little more but the burden includes the very high earners who are no longer able to shield earnings offshore.
But we are mixing two topics here. |
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