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Britishvolt
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Anyone remember this company being touted as a win by the brexiters? How it would use the opportunity of brexit to grow a UK centre for manufacture of the high-power batteries to be used in the next generation of electric vehicles? How it could never be achieved while we were overwhelmed by European legislation?
Bankrupt. |
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"Anyone remember this company being touted as a win by the brexiters? How it would use the opportunity of brexit to grow a UK centre for manufacture of the high-power batteries to be used in the next generation of electric vehicles? How it could never be achieved while we were overwhelmed by European legislation?
Bankrupt."
I do. And to quote a Labour MP only the other day, "the situation that existed then, doesn't exist now" |
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"Yup. That would be the situation where too many people believed that brexit was the promised land. Whereas they now know that it's a stinking swamp that sucks down an infinite amount of money."
That would be the situation where all MPs make pledges and then break them and look for justification |
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"If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration"
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work. |
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"If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work."
Aliens? |
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"If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration"
Not totally to blame. The company made a lot of mistakes but brexit was always going to make things difficult for them. Northvolt in Sweden seemed to have cracked it. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Simply far too ambitious from the outset.
Spiralling construction costs, higher interest and energy payments, and lack of a market made the investors nervous.
Missing targets meant that promised Goverment money didn't materialise, and they simply ran out of money. |
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"Anyone remember this company being touted as a win by the brexiters? How it would use the opportunity of brexit to grow a UK centre for manufacture of the high-power batteries to be used in the next generation of electric vehicles? How it could never be achieved while we were overwhelmed by European legislation?"
No, I don't remember that at all.
What EU-based problem were they saying would prevent the company from being formed before Brexit? |
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Is it just another example of the Tories short term thinking/planning or was it the market thinking that the Swedish company was already producing products whereas this company were not and then perhaps thinking that the extra tariffs involved in selling to the Eurozone made it a bad bet? |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government "
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour? |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?"
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped. |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped."
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though! |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though! "
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit? |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?"
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun. |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun."
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'. |
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|
By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
Goverment money was dependent on a certain level of private funding.
That investment didn't materialise.
The factory is still a good idea, but the business model needs to be seriously looked at. Promising an annual build of 300k car batteries was optimistic in the extreme. Nissan at full production only needed around 100k per annum. |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'. "
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories? |
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"Goverment money was dependent on a certain level of private funding.
That investment didn't materialise.
The factory is still a good idea, but the business model needs to be seriously looked at. Promising an annual build of 300k car batteries was optimistic in the extreme. Nissan at full production only needed around 100k per annum."
Fair enough, I must admit I didn't look far into it. Just enough to see what they did raise and what didn't materialise from Govt. |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?"
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here."
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit. |
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|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Goverment money was dependent on a certain level of private funding.
That investment didn't materialise.
The factory is still a good idea, but the business model needs to be seriously looked at. Promising an annual build of 300k car batteries was optimistic in the extreme. Nissan at full production only needed around 100k per annum."
Which idiot promised it would build 300,000 a year  |
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By *amantMan
over a year ago
Alnmouth |
Promise the moon, deliver some off cheese on a broken plate and then blame someone else. You have to wonder what cabinet meetings are really like. Ministers saying everything will be great but everyone knowing it won't be, or are too daft to realise. You have to wonder what they really think of freeports and the Rwanda plan. |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit. "
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics "
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun. "
When did I say that? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?"
They are not past anything sadly |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun.
When did I say that?"
When you suggested that I should leave the grown ups to the debate. Meanwhile ignoring the ridiculous pro Tory posts that I poke fun at.
Anyway, this is a fairly boring tangent. Let's leave it? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun.
When did I say that?
When you suggested that I should leave the grown ups to the debate. Meanwhile ignoring the ridiculous pro Tory posts that I poke fun at.
Anyway, this is a fairly boring tangent. Let's leave it?"
Isn't the point of debate to go back and forth with your opposing opinion? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun.
When did I say that?
When you suggested that I should leave the grown ups to the debate. Meanwhile ignoring the ridiculous pro Tory posts that I poke fun at.
Anyway, this is a fairly boring tangent. Let's leave it?
Isn't the point of debate to go back and forth with your opposing opinion?"
I haven't implied anyone shouldn't express an opinion. You have suggested I should leave it to the grown ups.
I made fun of the more extreme ridiculous posts. Which I presume are not serious. It's a forum on a swingers site. Not sure why you're taking an issue with me personally.
Do you really want to continue this tangent expressing opinions about the way I choose to post occasionally? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun.
When did I say that?
When you suggested that I should leave the grown ups to the debate. Meanwhile ignoring the ridiculous pro Tory posts that I poke fun at.
Anyway, this is a fairly boring tangent. Let's leave it?
Isn't the point of debate to go back and forth with your opposing opinion?
I haven't implied anyone shouldn't express an opinion. You have suggested I should leave it to the grown ups.
I made fun of the more extreme ridiculous posts. Which I presume are not serious. It's a forum on a swingers site. Not sure why you're taking an issue with me personally.
Do you really want to continue this tangent expressing opinions about the way I choose to post occasionally?"
You crack on. I told you that earlier  |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped."
From my understanding most of the government money was linked to the company meeting certain targets which was agreed by all involved. Some I think was securing other investment and some to do with progress on the actual building. As the company failed to meet the targets then the money is withheld until they do. The money is available but the conditions have not been met. I assume (only an assumption) that if the company is bought by new people and they meet the targets then government money will be available |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Goverment money was dependent on a certain level of private funding.
That investment didn't materialise.
The factory is still a good idea, but the business model needs to be seriously looked at. Promising an annual build of 300k car batteries was optimistic in the extreme. Nissan at full production only needed around 100k per annum."
The batteries from British volt were not going to Nissan as Nissan has it's own new battery plant being built near the car factory. |
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"Goverment money was dependent on a certain level of private funding.
That investment didn't materialise.
The factory is still a good idea, but the business model needs to be seriously looked at. Promising an annual build of 300k car batteries was optimistic in the extreme. Nissan at full production only needed around 100k per annum.
The batteries from British volt were not going to Nissan as Nissan has it's own new battery plant being built near the car factory. "
True Nissan are expanding theirs too will be able to make 30000 batteries when finished. British volt had a head start on north voltage, the Swedish company. But thanks to bad business plans and brexit throwing a spanner in the works they messed it up. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
Just read a bit of a report that some Australian company have announced they are to build a battery plant in Oxfordshire. Starting with batteries for trucks, which I thought was unusual but wants to also do cars and motorbikes. Also to open a new research centre, I guess to help develop. Not sure what brexit hold backs affected British volt as no reports i have read list it as a reason. Hopefully if they exist then they don't affect this new plant |
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"It was just a poorly executed business model!
Nothing to do with brexit / government
Yes, that's right, the government promised it was part of "levelling up", and it turned out to be a massive turd. It's nothing to do with anything.
But the main question is. What about Labour?
It would appear the Govt funding never came through from what I see. Although, they had already secured 1.7b, so I'm not sure 100m of Govt money would've helped.
Oh, so it turns out that the government promises of levelling up, were vague, had nothing to back them up, and that what they did promise, wasn't delivered?
Interesting. Still, Labour though!
It would appear that way, yeah.
Why do you guys insist on banging on about labour? It makes it really difficult to have adult conversations, I thought we were all past that shit?
I'm making fun of the frequent posts using "what about Labour" as the defence for whatever government failure/sleaze/lies/etc is being discussed. It's comical, so why not make fun.
Frequent posts? You say it more than anyone else. Same with the other poster saying 'nothing to see here'.
I've said it 3 or 4 times ever.
Other posters sat it 3 or 4 times a day, it's in multiple threads.
Are we not allowed to poke fun at the ridiculousness of this "what about someone else" defence of the Tories?
You said it twice, along with aliens? In just three posts on this thread.
Forget me, Im just trying to be an adult round here.
Twice is less than 3 or 4.
The "aliens" was a jibe at the post blaming absolutely everyone and everything except the government/brexit.
That's the point I was making. You carry on with your playground jibes and leave the grown up to actually debate topics
So only ridiculous outlandish posts in support of the Tories is allowed. Got ya. Sounds like it'll be fun.
When did I say that?
When you suggested that I should leave the grown ups to the debate. Meanwhile ignoring the ridiculous pro Tory posts that I poke fun at.
Anyway, this is a fairly boring tangent. Let's leave it?
Isn't the point of debate to go back and forth with your opposing opinion?"
Only if he gets the answer he wants to hear! |
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Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
"If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work."
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work."
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"It's all about investment.
The UK bankers don't like high risk high reward any more, and there not I interested in long term investment in manufacturing.
"
British Volt didn't even have any forward orders, just interest from Aston Martin and Lotus.
The proposed battery plants at Sunderland and Coventry, have orders and are well placed to capitalise once up and running. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
It's a chicken an egg problem.
To invest in a "giga"factory you need a large customer base. To retain large scale electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK you need a giga scale battery factory.
There were not enough guaranteed customers, but this might be one of the few circumstances where if you build it they genuinely will come.
You could argue that Brexit does play a hand due to the scale of subsidies on offer in the US and the EU. The UK just doesn't have the billions earmarked to attract this scale of investment risk on its own. It's impressive that it got as far as it did.
It is in the ideal site with offshore wind energy available, so it may still prove attractive. Tata, who own JLR may decide to invest, but UKPLC may end up paying more than they would have to keep Britishvolt.
Fortescue, who are building the battery factory, are not building one so large. It's not clear why here though, as they're interested in decarbonising mining in Australia. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?
Reece Mogg’s investment company does not invest in the UK. If it’s looking so great after Brexit why is that? Surely the UK is the place to invest now? Isn’t it?.
I don’t know if British Volt will get off the ground or not but would think the tax payer will be handing over subsidy cheques quietly if they do.
The UK is looking more and more like a corner shop in comparison to the EU large supermarket for manufacturers.
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"EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?"
So how do you explain that Williams Advanced Engineering are building a battery factory in Kidlington, due to open in April.
Is it because Andrew Forrest (the Australian billionaire owner of WAE) has no business sense? Or might there be a flaw in your reasoning? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?
So how do you explain that Williams Advanced Engineering are building a battery factory in Kidlington, due to open in April.
Is it because Andrew Forrest (the Australian billionaire owner of WAE) has no business sense? Or might there be a flaw in your reasoning?"
Did you miss the point of the limited market and it’s associated restrictions or is that a flaw in your understanding? |
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"EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?"
"So how do you explain that Williams Advanced Engineering are building a battery factory in Kidlington, due to open in April.
Is it because Andrew Forrest (the Australian billionaire owner of WAE) has no business sense? Or might there be a flaw in your reasoning?"
"Did you miss the point of the limited market and it’s associated restrictions or is that a flaw in your understanding? "
I didn't miss it, and I do understand what you're saying.
But my point remains - why did a foreign investor buy a British company, and build a factory in England, if the market is so limited and restricted? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?
So how do you explain that Williams Advanced Engineering are building a battery factory in Kidlington, due to open in April.
Is it because Andrew Forrest (the Australian billionaire owner of WAE) has no business sense? Or might there be a flaw in your reasoning?
Did you miss the point of the limited market and it’s associated restrictions or is that a flaw in your understanding?
I didn't miss it, and I do understand what you're saying.
But my point remains - why did a foreign investor buy a British company, and build a factory in England, if the market is so limited and restricted?"
Ok there are a number of factors to this investment and I can reassure you I know a little.
1. The market for batteries is restricted as I mentioned and the U.K. is less attractive from a market size and saturation perspective that’s fact.
2. The British volt is relying on investors as the people actually involved don’t have the kind of cash needed. They may be able to raise it but the Australian company can easily do so. That company can self fund or borrow easily and quickly.
3. The outside investors will see the Australia plan and it will make them wary of the market being even smaller given which factories are going to come to market fist based on funding.
4. This last point is related to Brexit but in an indirect way. The government is devoid of talent due to the purge of over Brexit and now has a complete lack of long term planning so policy is restricting investment .
To back that last statement up I’m involved with a couple of large scale projects. The government have been delaying decisions on tax regulation green credit, carbon credit etc etc.
We were promised a decision on a regulatory framework three years ago. That is still nowhere near being made. Kwasi and Boris were the leads.
As a result we have moved part of that project into The Netherlands as we and our funders can no longer wait.
There is a real and serious problem with the dysfunctional government we have in place at the moment. The pandering to the.blue rinse brigade on scrapping EU regulations sounds wonderful to the rabid right. The problem is however it is setting off massive alarm bells for potential investors. They need stable and workable rules to adopt into their plans. Those parameters are sadly missing.
Whist the day to day government fumbles along the lack of serous long term stability is causing chaos and massive delays to many long term large investment projects. Under funded start ups will feel the pain most of all. ie British Volt
Big funders need to spend money as if they don’t they don’t survive the market. The U.K. is not as attractive as other locations at the moment.
I hope they do succeed as we need investment so I’m hoping they pull of the rescue but it’s only going to happen with a very long term view on export opportunities and deep pockets along with favourable government funding via subsidy or tax breaks. . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case."
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt  |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
They’re a misconception that the guys need hundreds of millions to make this work. They do but the big spend is the easier part of the fundraising as there’s plenty of funds around looking for a safe home.
The difficult bit these guys are struggling with is the high risk front end money .
That’s why the number of £30m is banded about.
Whoever fronts this has to be able to gamble that £30m as the risk up front cash . This in effect does the due diligence on the project. It’s where fortunes can be made but it’s also the very highest risk as the money is spent to prove viability of the project. If it turns out it’s flawed then they’ve burnt £30m. If it’s proven to be viable the big funds drop in quickly behind.
Typically the risk money people get a much bigger ROI than the large backers to reward for their risk.
The fact that the project is stumbling over £20-30m shows whilst it may indeed be a good idea it hasn’t got people with cash enough to gamble away or prove it. Hence the stumbling.
Like I said I wish them luck as it’s the hardest part. They went all guns blazing publicity wise it seems without having a concrete well funded plan. I don’t know the detail so like others can only speculate on how they’ve got here now.
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"3. The outside investors will see the Australia plan and it will make them wary of the market being even smaller given which factories are going to come to market fist based on funding."
You seem to be suggesting that part of the failure of Britishvolt is because that are too many foreign investors bringing funds to the UK.
You also seem to have moved the conversation away from whether Brexit has made the UK uninvestable, to the government's failure to nurture British start-ups. That's something I agree with you on. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"3. The outside investors will see the Australia plan and it will make them wary of the market being even smaller given which factories are going to come to market fist based on funding.
You seem to be suggesting that part of the failure of Britishvolt is because that are too many foreign investors bringing funds to the UK.
You also seem to have moved the conversation away from whether Brexit has made the UK uninvestable, to the government's failure to nurture British start-ups. That's something I agree with you on."
In this instance a foreign investor may have spooked the British Volt business model’s sustainability that’s very true.
Brexit has lead to making the U.K. less attractive to many investors. ( mine included). We are now a smaller and very messed up market.
Brexit has also lead to the Government we have now. Boris was elected on the basis of Brexit.
He had no plan for Brexit (other than vested and personal interest) and no further plan for the U.K. economy so despite people’s best efforts to part the waves the problems are intrinsically linked. Cause and effect if you prefer.
Whilst the U.K isn’t going to close tomorrow. We are investing as I said however, the loss of potential extra business along with ever increasing underlying costs to trade will combine to hurt the UK’s productivity even further.
Lower sales per head is the simplest way that’s being hurt. If we can’t attract enough investment the underlying trend will be less modernisation and development overall. Less business and less tax so less to pay nurses etc. it’s a vicious circle.
Losing direct tax of £40b a year is just the start . When you add the cashflow spend and the further indirect tax take, the numbers are horrific.
The lack of any coherent action to all this is making it worse. Not talking about Brexit and it’s negative effects is definitely not the answer whether you voted for or against the damage is hurting nearly everyone.
Has Brexit had a negative effect on British volt. My opinion is yes. It is not however solely responsible for the mess they are in. |
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I don't know how you can in one sentence say 'Brexit hurt Britishvolt because it reduced the market and made them uneconomical', and then in the next sentence say 'Britishvolt were hurt by extra foreign investment in other British battery companies'.
How does Brexit hurt Britishvolt, but not have the same effect on other British battery companies? |
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt "
Ah yes Lord Hague the bitter remainer |
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt
Ah yes Lord Hague the bitter remainer"
Why does everyone who understands the impact of brexit become "bitter"? |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I don't know how you can in one sentence say 'Brexit hurt Britishvolt because it reduced the market and made them uneconomical', and then in the next sentence say 'Britishvolt were hurt by extra foreign investment in other British battery companies'.
How does Brexit hurt Britishvolt, but not have the same effect on other British battery companies?"
I’ll try and simplify it for you.
The nice guy wants to sell ice cream from a van Unfortunately he can only sell in his home village of 10 people now due to not being competitive in the next village because of new rules and transport costs . He thinks ok the market is still enough with my economy of scale to make it work just. So he plans to buy his van.
The bigger ice cream guy in the next village has a booming business as he has 27 villages to serve without restrictive costs and makes more profit per sale due to lower costs per ice cream and better productivity. In the AUS backers case global margins are at play.
The nasty big guy from the next village puts a van in the small guys village early that day and starts selling ice cream . He sells five .
The smalls guys market has just got smaller by 50% and his profitability is now hit even further . Should he bother going to the wholesalers still? After all he’s not making money now the market is smaller even assuming he can sell to all five of the remaining buyers.
The bigger guys margin is greater and productivity better so he’s probably still making a profit on just five sales.
The sad smaller guys wife who’s possibly the investor wants him to see the reality and get a job. Maybe he can work for the big ice team seller.
The market opportunities and easy options on growth have contracted due to Brexit .
27 vans to pay for 1 owners dividends
1 van to pay for 1 owners dividend
Simple really.
Giving 50% of the one van’s sales to the bigger guys didn’t impact the big guy that much . It does however, halve the small guys business.
If he had cornered his market earlier who knows but not having another market is reducing his options.
If he falls then the existing manufacturers and the new big guy can easily fill any gap.
It is impossible to deny the Brexit has had a negative effect on most U.K. manufacturing exporters .
It’s also a good example of why when everyone claimed the EU needed us more than we needed them due to our trade imports 60% coming from the EU the reality was not true.
Per country it’s mostly below 4% of their export sales so they can in effect just stop trading with us without hurting their economy too much.
Hope that’s clearer.
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt "
Fair enough, a couple of points though..
Did he really say it was the main reason?
If Lord Hague had said it had nothing to do with Brexit, would you believe him? |
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It's not clear why the company failed with what we can find, so we can't really come to a conclusion as to why it failed.
All that is said is that they 'didn't make enough profit and ran out of money', though they were looking at setting up a new site?
Had they actually made anything up to this point or were they still in the, getting sites prepared and manufacturing equipment setup phase? Machines in manufacturing are very very expensive.
Hard to blame barriers to trade if the company had yet to make any product yet? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt
Fair enough, a couple of points though..
Did he really say it was the main reason?
If Lord Hague had said it had nothing to do with Brexit, would you believe him?"
Yes and yes |
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But the big guy from the next village hasn't just bought a new van, he's set up an ice cream factory in the first guy's village. And the big guy doesn't even sell ice cream in his home village, he's entering the market from scratch. Why would he do that if the market is restricted?
For those having difficulty with the analogy, Australian billionaire Andrew Forrest bought Williams Advanced Engineering for the purpose of making batteries in the UK. He doesn't have any other battery companies, he made his money from mining. |
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt
Fair enough, a couple of points though..
Did he really say it was the main reason?
If Lord Hague had said it had nothing to do with Brexit, would you believe him?
Yes and yes "
Can you point out for me where he said it was the main reason?
Second part I don't believe, you've never accepted that answer from a Tory before. |
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"But the big guy from the next village hasn't just bought a new van, he's set up an ice cream factory in the first guy's village. And the big guy doesn't even sell ice cream in his home village, he's entering the market from scratch. Why would he do that if the market is restricted?"
Ah, so they were still setting things up and not even made anything yet. Well that's stupid given the Brexit and Covid double-whammy. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"But the big guy from the next village hasn't just bought a new van, he's set up an ice cream factory in the first guy's village. And the big guy doesn't even sell ice cream in his home village, he's entering the market from scratch. Why would he do that if the market is restricted?
For those having difficulty with the analogy, Australian billionaire Andrew Forrest bought Williams Advanced Engineering for the purpose of making batteries in the UK. He doesn't have any other battery companies, he made his money from mining."
The van is the factory in my example .
His economy of scale in his business means he can take advantage of he better financial leverage better supply contract leverage and his supply chain opens further global markets with ease.
The restrictions on a start up are compounded by their increased difficulty in sales to their nearest large market ie the EU. They have no parent to lean on to help at this point so will rely on sales as a stand alone in a stand alone market. Without cheap access to a bigger market they will find it harder. It’s not impossible but it’s definitely harder and investors can see this clearly.
By buying an established company the Australian company in effect cornering part of the market and closing it to British volt. With limited access to an expanded market or the EU the British start up cannot expand its Horizons so easily .
They are in a worse position than they would have been if the U.K. was part of the bigger EU market. It’s not hard to grasp and having read many of your posts on the boards you definitely do understand .
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt
Fair enough, a couple of points though..
Did he really say it was the main reason?
If Lord Hague had said it had nothing to do with Brexit, would you believe him?
Yes and yes
Can you point out for me where he said it was the main reason?
Second part I don't believe, you've never accepted that answer from a Tory before."
There is an article in the independent , I like, respect and believe a large number of Tories
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"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt
Fair enough, a couple of points though..
Did he really say it was the main reason?
If Lord Hague had said it had nothing to do with Brexit, would you believe him?
Yes and yes
Can you point out for me where he said it was the main reason?
Second part I don't believe, you've never accepted that answer from a Tory before.
There is an article in the independent , I like, respect and believe a large number of Tories
"
I've read the Independent article, he definitely doesn't say that |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
Tell us how or why Brexit is the main reason for this companies demise.
As another poster said, none of the reports say that's the case.
Lord William Hague has stated that Brexit was the main reason for the collapse of British Volt
Fair enough, a couple of points though..
Did he really say it was the main reason?
If Lord Hague had said it had nothing to do with Brexit, would you believe him?
Yes and yes
Can you point out for me where he said it was the main reason?
Second part I don't believe, you've never accepted that answer from a Tory before.
There is an article in the independent , I like, respect and believe a large number of Tories
I've read the Independent article, he definitely doesn't say that "
He definitely does. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Britishvolt made the majority of its 300 staff redundant on Wednesday after appointing administrators when it failed to raise enough funding for its Cambois site.
“That is very concerning and it’s a sad reflection probably on Brexit,” Lord Hague told The News Agents podcast at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos.
“Because what do you need in some of these technologies? You need scale. You need to know there’s a big market. If you’re going to succeed with batteries, you’re going to need big manufacturers to be in the same market using those batteries.”
Lord Hague added: “So that’s part of the damage that’s been done by leaving the EUtechnologies? You need scale. You need to know there’s a big market. If you’re going to succeed with batteries, you’re going to need big manufacturers to be in the same market using those batteries.”
Lord Hague added: “So that’s part of the damage that’s been done by leaving the EU |
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"
Britishvolt made the majority of its 300 staff redundant on Wednesday after appointing administrators when it failed to raise enough funding for its Cambois site.
“That is very concerning and it’s a sad reflection probably on Brexit,” Lord Hague told The News Agents podcast at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos.
“Because what do you need in some of these technologies? You need scale. You need to know there’s a big market. If you’re going to succeed with batteries, you’re going to need big manufacturers to be in the same market using those batteries.”
Lord Hague added: “So that’s part of the damage that’s been done by leaving the EUtechnologies? You need scale. You need to know there’s a big market. If you’re going to succeed with batteries, you’re going to need big manufacturers to be in the same market using those batteries.”
Lord Hague added: “So that’s part of the damage that’s been done by leaving the EU"
First of all he says 'probably', meaning he doesn't actually know. Then he goes on to talk about a large market, what a large market is, is hugely speculative.
Of course the EU is a larger market than the UK but we're Britishvolt actually planning on manufacturing for the EU market or just the UK market? |
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"Britishvolt made the majority of its 300 staff redundant on Wednesday after appointing administrators when it failed to raise enough funding for its Cambois site."
Why the hell would a company hire 300 staff when they have nothing to sell? What the fudge?
Setup as a company in 2019, first staff hired in June 2020, during Lockdowns!
What were the projections on return of investment? They should have outsourced manufacturing if they didn't have the sites available.
We bet they didn't have a product at all, just another scam to get investment grants from the government. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Britishvolt made the majority of its 300 staff redundant on Wednesday after appointing administrators when it failed to raise enough funding for its Cambois site.
“That is very concerning and it’s a sad reflection probably on Brexit,” Lord Hague told The News Agents podcast at the World Economic Forum (WEF) in Davos.
“Because what do you need in some of these technologies? You need scale. You need to know there’s a big market. If you’re going to succeed with batteries, you’re going to need big manufacturers to be in the same market using those batteries.”
Lord Hague added: “So that’s part of the damage that’s been done by leaving the EUtechnologies? You need scale. You need to know there’s a big market. If you’re going to succeed with batteries, you’re going to need big manufacturers to be in the same market using those batteries.”
Lord Hague added: “So that’s part of the damage that’s been done by leaving the EU
First of all he says 'probably', meaning he doesn't actually know. Then he goes on to talk about a large market, what a large market is, is hugely speculative.
Of course the EU is a larger market than the UK but we're Britishvolt actually planning on manufacturing for the EU market or just the UK market?"
Probably, almost certainly; as far as one knows or can tell.
Just to clarify, he is blaming Brexit |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"But the big guy from the next village hasn't just bought a new van, he's set up an ice cream factory in the first guy's village. And the big guy doesn't even sell ice cream in his home village, he's entering the market from scratch. Why would he do that if the market is restricted?
Ah, so they were still setting things up and not even made anything yet. Well that's stupid given the Brexit and Covid double-whammy."
Do you go to work still or have you stopped because of covid and Brexit? The management team are doing their job whatever the timings they have to push on but it’s proving understandably hard for them. Due to Brexit and to Covid although a lesser extent now.
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Britishvolt made the majority of its 300 staff redundant on Wednesday after appointing administrators when it failed to raise enough funding for its Cambois site.
Why the hell would a company hire 300 staff when they have nothing to sell? What the fudge?
Setup as a company in 2019, first staff hired in June 2020, during Lockdowns!
What were the projections on return of investment? They should have outsourced manufacturing if they didn't have the sites available.
We bet they didn't have a product at all, just another scam to get investment grants from the government."
They had a monthly salary bill of 3 million.
They purchased computer equipment worth £1000 for every employee, whether they needed it or not.
They spent money on expensive online fitness programmes.
They put executives and guests up in a mansion.
They acted like a well established company, when in fact, they were just a (ambitious) start-up. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
It’s really sad news that it’s failed because it’s starting to show the gap be tween us and the EU even more.
“The UK currently only has one Chinese-owned battery plant next to the Nissan factory in Sunderland, while 35 plants are planned or already under construction in the European Union.
Industry experts have said the UK will need several battery factories to support the future of UK car making as pure petrol and diesel engines are phased out over the next decade.”
Think the above stats show the market opportunities and where they are.
Car manufacturers will be watching closely in relation to their long term plans.
It’s a bit shit it’s failed to be honest but I must echo what another poster put and I can’t understand why they had 300 staff??
At this stage of the process whilst you may have a core management / development team the vast majority of the work is contracted out to save money and provide qualified support and development. Seems a bit odd to me!!
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The issue is that Electric Cars and Batteries are not sustainable. The novelty of this tech will wear off and another greener method is needed.
Tesla share price has drop 70% in the year.
Each Battery has over 6k cells in 1 unit so high likelihood things will go wrong and Tesla only allow specific repair places. A new battery costs over $20k so most of the electric car second hand market is worthless, the only reason sales are high is company car tax benefits. |
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"The van is the factory in my example."
I know, and that (if you'll excuse me) is why it's a bad example.
In your example, the ice cream (i.e. the product) is manufactured in the big village and shipped over the border each day. The van is just a transport mechanism.
WAE aren't importing products into the UK, and putting little old Britishvolt out of business, they're making stuff here.
"His economy of scale in his business means he can take advantage of he better financial leverage better supply contract leverage and his supply chain opens further global markets with ease."
Again, I understand your example, but it's not relevant. WAE aren't a bigger player with an established reputation and economy of scale leverage. WAE is a brand new company, just like Britishvolt.
"By buying an established company the Australian company in effect cornering part of the market and closing it to British volt."
I think I see the confusion. WAE are not an established battery manufacturer. They were a commercial offshoot of the Williams F1 team, that have some technology patents. The Australian isn't buying an established battery manufacturer, he's buying a battery start-up that has never actually sold a battery. Britishvolt and WAE are at basically the same point in their company lifecycles. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"It’s really sad news that it’s failed because it’s starting to show the gap be tween us and the EU even more.
“The UK currently only has one Chinese-owned battery plant next to the Nissan factory in Sunderland, while 35 plants are planned or already under construction in the European Union.
Industry experts have said the UK will need several battery factories to support the future of UK car making as pure petrol and diesel engines are phased out over the next decade.”
Think the above stats show the market opportunities and where they are.
Car manufacturers will be watching closely in relation to their long term plans.
It’s a bit shit it’s failed to be honest but I must echo what another poster put and I can’t understand why they had 300 staff??
At this stage of the process whilst you may have a core management / development team the vast majority of the work is contracted out to save money and provide qualified support and development. Seems a bit odd to me!!
"
Automotive people tell me, that a lot of car production is likely to
move to cheaper EU countries over the next decade.
Without huge Goverment subsidies, then I can honestly see that. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?
So how do you explain that Williams Advanced Engineering are building a battery factory in Kidlington, due to open in April.
Is it because Andrew Forrest (the Australian billionaire owner of WAE) has no business sense? Or might there be a flaw in your reasoning?
Did you miss the point of the limited market and it’s associated restrictions or is that a flaw in your understanding?
I didn't miss it, and I do understand what you're saying.
But my point remains - why did a foreign investor buy a British company, and build a factory in England, if the market is so limited and restricted?"
Fortescue Metals bought WAE as an engineering and development company with a background in electric vehicle systems and an ability to move quickly.
Andrew Forrest is an impatient man.
The factory being built in the UK is very small compared to the giga-scale plants needed for industrial supply.
It will be built as a pilot plant with the primary aim of providing a fast feedback loop to engineering to solve problems and find opportunities. Knowledge of the whole process from design, to logistics to manufacture is needed to succeed. That's what an engineer will tell you. An accountant will tell you a different story.
Fortescue is interested in heavy industry batteries not road cars. The European market is limited but enough to break-even. Even a modest loss is acceptable if the engineering benefits are retained.
WAE was acquired for expertise not for manufacturing. The Gigafactories will be built in Australia and the US where the markets are for these particular products. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Britishvolt made the majority of its 300 staff redundant on Wednesday after appointing administrators when it failed to raise enough funding for its Cambois site.
Why the hell would a company hire 300 staff when they have nothing to sell? What the fudge?
Setup as a company in 2019, first staff hired in June 2020, during Lockdowns!
What were the projections on return of investment? They should have outsourced manufacturing if they didn't have the sites available.
We bet they didn't have a product at all, just another scam to get investment grants from the government.
They had a monthly salary bill of 3 million.
They purchased computer equipment worth £1000 for every employee, whether they needed it or not.
They spent money on expensive online fitness programmes.
They put executives and guests up in a mansion.
They acted like a well established company, when in fact, they were just a (ambitious) start-up."
That is what happens when a dump of many millions arrive. Vanity spending.
It I probably also in their "growth strategy" to show "progress" with headcount growth.
That said, there probably was work for 100 people as there is a lot in planning and executing a production process at this scale and the logistics around material supply. Perhaps more.
Battery design and production is really, really complicated. There is not the external/ contract knowledge in existence to bring in either. This is all new. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"The van is the factory in my example.
I know, and that (if you'll excuse me) is why it's a bad example.
In your example, the ice cream (i.e. the product) is manufactured in the big village and shipped over the border each day. The van is just a transport mechanism.
WAE aren't importing products into the UK, and putting little old Britishvolt out of business, they're making stuff here.
His economy of scale in his business means he can take advantage of he better financial leverage better supply contract leverage and his supply chain opens further global markets with ease.
Again, I understand your example, but it's not relevant. WAE aren't a bigger player with an established reputation and economy of scale leverage. WAE is a brand new company, just like Britishvolt.
By buying an established company the Australian company in effect cornering part of the market and closing it to British volt.
I think I see the confusion. WAE are not an established battery manufacturer. They were a commercial offshoot of the Williams F1 team, that have some technology patents. The Australian isn't buying an established battery manufacturer, he's buying a battery start-up that has never actually sold a battery. Britishvolt and WAE are at basically the same point in their company lifecycles."
I admit a poor example but the van was making the ice cream the savings were overhead and funding and general supply chain ( bigger more effective buying power). but let’s park that. 
I didn’t say he was buying an established battery maker I said he buy a company which is established . It’s tiny in comparison I agree and in fact is almost a shell company so was by the look of it intended just as a vehicle. It may have patents that could be useful but there’s no way of checking that quickly.
I will repeat the Australian group has the financial and supply chain leverage as I mentioned and with a potentially established development team all bought and paid for. .
Why do you think one company buys another? It’s to avoid organic growth pains and use synergies that can quickly establish huge savings compared to a stand alone. In this instance they appear to be buying up people or IP but I don’t know so can’t confirm that.
The synergy here is the funding of the Australian company the development and the support function is most likely available for WAE to call on.
I know some serial investors who employ their own teams full time to oversee new developments. They get their money later in he process so can afford to support the process. It also gives huge oversight.
British volt had not it appears considered the need for customers. They hadn’t organised a sustainable development process by the looks of it either.
A well funded rival will have done their due diligence on this part.
When potential rescue companies came in they would have looked at the market and seen it’s small and looks to be crowded especially if WAE becomes established so where would the alternative growth be ? The EU? Hmmm 35 potentially “now cheaper” producing rivals. Good luck with that.
To put British Volts mess in comparison I’m aware of a development costing £1.1B which has had a team of five working on it for three years. They are about to apply for the first part of structural planning. Just five guys! ( plus contractors as and when) Compare that to British volts 300. Madness . Maybe they were doomed due to pure incompetence and Brexit would have just been the final nail!
The detail on the mess will emerge but I wonder if it will disclose Government involvement ?? Perhaps not given previous experience around things such as NISSAN and Ford .
Anyway I think we could go around in circles but I do genuinely believe a great deal of investment is being lost due to Brexit and subsequent incompetent government. . |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"EU car production 10-12m. UK production 6-700k
55% of U.K. built cars sell into Europe.
U.K. government took us out of the EU . This brought us into parts origin issues as we now try to sell into the eu as a third country. The government want to create our own rules and laws and not align with the EU resulting in duplication of admin and standards for manufacturers should they base a factory in the U.K. that wishes to export to the EU.
Let’s imagine you have a few billion to spend on a new parts (or batteries) factory and your market choice is free seamless trade within the EU’s 10m car market or problematic U.K. with 700k cars along with existing barriers and increased costs required to sell on into Europe. On top of that let’s add the further high risk of even more costs and barriers due to political dogma in the U.K. ( scrapping of EU laws)
Now ask yourself which looks the best place for your billions?
So how do you explain that Williams Advanced Engineering are building a battery factory in Kidlington, due to open in April.
Is it because Andrew Forrest (the Australian billionaire owner of WAE) has no business sense? Or might there be a flaw in your reasoning?
Did you miss the point of the limited market and it’s associated restrictions or is that a flaw in your understanding?
I didn't miss it, and I do understand what you're saying.
But my point remains - why did a foreign investor buy a British company, and build a factory in England, if the market is so limited and restricted?
Fortescue Metals bought WAE as an engineering and development company with a background in electric vehicle systems and an ability to move quickly.
Andrew Forrest is an impatient man.
The factory being built in the UK is very small compared to the giga-scale plants needed for industrial supply.
It will be built as a pilot plant with the primary aim of providing a fast feedback loop to engineering to solve problems and find opportunities. Knowledge of the whole process from design, to logistics to manufacture is needed to succeed. That's what an engineer will tell you. An accountant will tell you a different story.
Fortescue is interested in heavy industry batteries not road cars. The European market is limited but enough to break-even. Even a modest loss is acceptable if the engineering benefits are retained.
WAE was acquired for expertise not for manufacturing. The Gigafactories will be built in Australia and the US where the markets are for these particular products."
Superior detailed knowledge here. |
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"I do genuinely believe a great deal of investment is being lost due to Brexit and subsequent incompetent government."
I can understand your thinking.
In this particular case though, the more details that emerge, the more it looks like the government made the right decision on this one. |
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By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago
Manchester |
"I do genuinely believe a great deal of investment is being lost due to Brexit and subsequent incompetent government.
I can understand your thinking.
In this particular case though, the more details that emerge, the more it looks like the government made the right decision on this one."
I agree with you and the more that emerges the more of a mess it appears .
I wonder how much of the wasteful spending was tax payers cash though. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work."
So what I have read reports bad management, missing targets to ensure government funding and not having the backing of a major automotive company. I also read that even if this factory had gone ahead it was still not enough to satisfy the UK market. The output would be for the UK market . If they did grow and have more capacity than the UK market required I think they could sell abroad like other companies do. Hopefully a buyer can be found |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
So what I have read reports bad management, missing targets to ensure government funding and not having the backing of a major automotive company. I also read that even if this factory had gone ahead it was still not enough to satisfy the UK market. The output would be for the UK market . If they did grow and have more capacity than the UK market required I think they could sell abroad like other companies do. Hopefully a buyer can be found"
UK production would be considered domestic as far as EU tariffs are concerned.
However, the political instability in the UK makes a 20+ year investment "uncertain".
Tata most likely as they could have enough of their own products to supply to. Lotus and Bentley and Rolls Royce also aiming for electrification, but they are parts of bigger European groups. Potential customers though.
Personally, I think it will happen. I don't know why it failed. It should be a slam dunk... |
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By *tead88Man
over a year ago
nine elms |
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
So what I have read reports bad management, missing targets to ensure government funding and not having the backing of a major automotive company. I also read that even if this factory had gone ahead it was still not enough to satisfy the UK market. The output would be for the UK market . If they did grow and have more capacity than the UK market required I think they could sell abroad like other companies do. Hopefully a buyer can be found"
This, basically. They missed a few important funding reliant quotas a few times and the gov pulled the plug. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Do some research old boy
Brexit is the main reason , but don’t fear there are many positives to Brexit ??????
If brexit had not occurred, would this company not gone into administration
You can't blame Brexit on this failed company.
£450bn spent on covid and the UK is still nowhere near ready for full electric, plus inflation being high is several reasons why this did not work.
So what I have read reports bad management, missing targets to ensure government funding and not having the backing of a major automotive company. I also read that even if this factory had gone ahead it was still not enough to satisfy the UK market. The output would be for the UK market . If they did grow and have more capacity than the UK market required I think they could sell abroad like other companies do. Hopefully a buyer can be found
This, basically. They missed a few important funding reliant quotas a few times and the gov pulled the plug. "
The main short-term problem is that they were using Government funding for capital expenditure, buildings and equipment, on operational, such as salaries.
They may have had the vision and even the right product, but it appears they were not very well run. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Australian company, Recharge, is set to take over Britishvolt assets, and is planning to get a factory built here.
They are currently building a factory near Melbourne."
Good news (I think). Was wondering if it's the same Australian company that have plans to invest in another site in the UK but the article I read did not mention it. Seems they think it makes business sense |
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"Australian company, Recharge, is set to take over Britishvolt assets, and is planning to get a factory built here.
They are currently building a factory near Melbourne.
Good news (I think). Was wondering if it's the same Australian company that have plans to invest in another site in the UK but the article I read did not mention it. Seems they think it makes business sense"
Great news!
Others will be along soon to tell you why it's not |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Australian company, Recharge, is set to take over Britishvolt assets, and is planning to get a factory built here.
They are currently building a factory near Melbourne.
Good news (I think). Was wondering if it's the same Australian company that have plans to invest in another site in the UK but the article I read did not mention it. Seems they think it makes business sense"
Should be good news. It will be a bargain. Unfortunately the staff have all left so they will be starting from scratch.
Interesting that EY (the administrators) appear to have chosen this bid from an investment fund backed startup over Tata Motors who owns JLR. |
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By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago
milton keynes |
"Australian company, Recharge, is set to take over Britishvolt assets, and is planning to get a factory built here.
They are currently building a factory near Melbourne.
Good news (I think). Was wondering if it's the same Australian company that have plans to invest in another site in the UK but the article I read did not mention it. Seems they think it makes business sense
Should be good news. It will be a bargain. Unfortunately the staff have all left so they will be starting from scratch.
Interesting that EY (the administrators) appear to have chosen this bid from an investment fund backed startup over Tata Motors who owns JLR."
Yes apparently a few British interests in this but for whatever reason they did not persuade the administrator. Hopefully it's because they are being very careful and not wanting a repeat. Not easy for any staff being messed about. Time will tell I guess but on the whole bloody good news |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Australian company, Recharge, is set to take over Britishvolt assets, and is planning to get a factory built here.
They are currently building a factory near Melbourne.
Good news (I think). Was wondering if it's the same Australian company that have plans to invest in another site in the UK but the article I read did not mention it. Seems they think it makes business sense
Should be good news. It will be a bargain. Unfortunately the staff have all left so they will be starting from scratch.
Interesting that EY (the administrators) appear to have chosen this bid from an investment fund backed startup over Tata Motors who owns JLR.
Yes apparently a few British interests in this but for whatever reason they did not persuade the administrator. Hopefully it's because they are being very careful and not wanting a repeat. Not easy for any staff being messed about. Time will tell I guess but on the whole bloody good news"
That's why the decision seems surprising as Recharge is a start-up. Perhaps it's a "cut and paste" of the Australian design as far as is possible so less risk?
Fingers crossed. |
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