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By *lfaso OP Couple 40 weeks ago
South East |
In the US, the driver who deliberately drove his car at high speed through a group of BLM protesters, killing one and seriously injuring another, has pleaded guilty and been given a sentence of six years.
Is this too lenient? |
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By *lfaso OP Couple 40 weeks ago
South East |
"It's at the high end of punishment for 'accidental' deaths, and it's what all parties have agreed to in return for a guilty plea. What is there to discuss?"
‘Vehicular homicide’ and ‘vehicular assault’ doesn’t sound ‘accidental’ to me. |
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By (user no longer on site) 40 weeks ago
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"I thik it was a lenient sentence of 27 months for the bus driver who caused an elderly lady to need both legs amputating. "
Selective reading Sally, more important when it involves BLM. |
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"It's at the high end of punishment for 'accidental' deaths, and it's what all parties have agreed to in return for a guilty plea. What is there to discuss?"
"‘Vehicular homicide’ and ‘vehicular assault’ doesn’t sound ‘accidental’ to me. "
'Homicide' just means that someone died. In the UK it would have been called "causing death by dangerous driving". If there had been intent they would have charged him with murder, or "felonious homicide" as they like to say over there.
Have you actually read the facts of the case? |
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By (user no longer on site) 40 weeks ago
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"It's at the high end of punishment for 'accidental' deaths, and it's what all parties have agreed to in return for a guilty plea. What is there to discuss?
‘Vehicular homicide’ and ‘vehicular assault’ doesn’t sound ‘accidental’ to me.
'Homicide' just means that someone died. In the UK it would have been called "causing death by dangerous driving". If there had been intent they would have charged him with murder, or "felonious homicide" as they like to say over there.
Have you actually read the facts of the case?"
Homicide is literally another word for murder. No one says felonious homicide because homicide is always a felony, you just made it up. |
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"Homicide is literally another word for murder. No one says felonious homicide because homicide is always a felony, you just made it up."
Homicide is from the Latin 'homo' meaning 'man', and 'cida' meaning 'to kill'. It means the killing of a person, and doesn't have any connotations as to intent. That's why we have the words 'murder' and 'manslaughter' to further describe different sorts of homicide.
There are lots of ways of finding information on the internet. Just type "felonious homicide" into one of them and see how many results you get. I'll be back later if you want to apologise. |
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By *lfaso OP Couple 40 weeks ago
South East |
"Homicide is literally another word for murder. No one says felonious homicide because homicide is always a felony, you just made it up.
Homicide is from the Latin 'homo' meaning 'man', and 'cida' meaning 'to kill'. It means the killing of a person, and doesn't have any connotations as to intent. That's why we have the words 'murder' and 'manslaughter' to further describe different sorts of homicide.
There are lots of ways of finding information on the internet. Just type "felonious homicide" into one of them and see how many results you get. I'll be back later if you want to apologise."
As you know the law varies from State to State.
In Washington: Regardless of the theory under which vehicular homicide is charged, it is considered a Class A felony punishable by up to life imprisonment and a $50,000 fine. |
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By *lfaso OP Couple 40 weeks ago
South East |
"It's at the high end of punishment for 'accidental' deaths, and it's what all parties have agreed to in return for a guilty plea. What is there to discuss?"
The King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office said. Two of the charges, vehicular homicide and vehicular assault, are felonies, a spokesman for the prosecuting attorney’s office said.
Mr. Kelete could face more than 13 years in prison, said the spokesman, Casey McNerthney.
So six years would seem to be some way off 'the high end' of possible punishment. |
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"It's at the high end of punishment for 'accidental' deaths, and it's what all parties have agreed to in return for a guilty plea. What is there to discuss?"
"The King County Prosecuting Attorney’s Office said. Two of the charges, vehicular homicide and vehicular assault, are felonies, a spokesman for the prosecuting attorney’s office said."
Correct. In the US, "felony" means 'a crime punishable by a year or more in prison', and causing death by dangerous driving falls into that category.
"Mr. Kelete could face more than 13 years in prison, said the spokesman, Casey McNerthney."
Yes, that's the limit for Vehicular Homicide, and would be applied to anyone that deliberately drove into a crowd of people.
"So six years would seem to be some way off 'the high end' of possible punishment."
As I said above, 6 years is at the high end of punishment for someone that 'accidentally' drove into a person. It's clear that he didn't intend to hit anyone, so the maximum penalty would be inappropriate.
I look forward to seeing where you're going to move the goalposts in your next post. |
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By (user no longer on site) 40 weeks ago
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"My view if your in the road dont be surprised if you get run over, im surprised no just stop oil clowns havent been flattened yet"
Sometimes it’s better to say nothing at all. |
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"My view if your in the road dont be surprised if you get run over, im surprised no just stop oil clowns havent been flattened yet
Sometimes it’s better to say nothing at all."
think you should take your own advice  |
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By (user no longer on site) 40 weeks ago
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"My view if your in the road dont be surprised if you get run over, im surprised no just stop oil clowns havent been flattened yet
Sometimes it’s better to say nothing at all.think you should take your own advice "
Mate, you’re defending someone attacking protestors with a car. |
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"My view if your in the road dont be surprised if you get run over, im surprised no just stop oil clowns havent been flattened yet
Sometimes it’s better to say nothing at all.think you should take your own advice
Mate, you’re defending someone attacking protestors with a car. "
not defending just pointing out play in the road dont be surprised if u get hit by a car |
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"Mate, you’re defending someone attacking protestors with a car. "
No he isn't.
The guy in the US was high on painkillers and wanted to get home. He saw that the police had blocked the on-ramp, but they hadn't blocked the off-ramp, and he thought he would be clever and drive up that to get on the highway. He was doing about 60mph when he came across the protesters on the highway, and he was unable to stop in time.
Is he a bad man? Yes. Does he deserve to go to jail? Yes. Did he attack protesters with a vehicle? No. |
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"Mate, you’re defending someone attacking protestors with a car.
No he isn't.
The guy in the US was high on painkillers and wanted to get home. He saw that the police had blocked the on-ramp, but they hadn't blocked the off-ramp, and he thought he would be clever and drive up that to get on the highway. He was doing about 60mph when he came across the protesters on the highway, and he was unable to stop in time.
Is he a bad man? Yes. Does he deserve to go to jail? Yes. Did he attack protesters with a vehicle? No."
I'm not familiar with the case but from what you describe it certainly was not a deliberate act. In other words he did not set off on his journey with the intention of driving into people. I would assume in the USA it's illegal to drive while on drugs and he certainly broke several laws. If it were in the UK would it be manslaughter? Or causing death by reckless driving (if that's an official thing) |
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By *lfaso OP Couple 40 weeks ago
South East |
"Mate, you’re defending someone attacking protestors with a car.
No he isn't.
The guy in the US was high on painkillers and wanted to get home. He saw that the police had blocked the on-ramp, but they hadn't blocked the off-ramp, and he thought he would be clever and drive up that to get on the highway. He was doing about 60mph when he came across the protesters on the highway, and he was unable to stop in time.
Is he a bad man? Yes. Does he deserve to go to jail? Yes. Did he attack protesters with a vehicle? No.
I'm not familiar with the case but from what you describe it certainly was not a deliberate act. In other words he did not set off on his journey with the intention of driving into people. I would assume in the USA it's illegal to drive while on drugs and he certainly broke several laws. If it were in the UK would it be manslaughter? Or causing death by reckless driving (if that's an official thing)"
The driver "traveling at “freeway speeds” – drove his white Jaguar XJL the wrong way up an Interstate 5 exit ramp just before 1:36 a.m., security footage from an REI store shows, according to the complaint. The driver had to make a “deliberate and sharp right U-turn in order to drive (southbound) on I-5,” the document says, adding that “numerous red signs warning that the driver is going the Wrong Way and Do Not Enter” were posted. He then drove toward a three-vehicle barricade put up by demonstrators before maneuvering onto the right shoulder. He continued driving at “freeway speeds” on the shoulder, passing the barricade as pedestrians tried to get out of the way, the complaint states."
The surviving victim wrote: "“In a lot of pain. I cannot believe Summer was murdered,” “If they thought this murder would make us back down, they are very wrong. Very wrong.” |
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"If it were in the UK would it be manslaughter? Or causing death by reckless driving (if that's an official thing)"
In the UK it would be 'causing death by dangerous driving'.
"The surviving victim wrote: "“In a lot of pain. I cannot believe Summer was murdered,” “If they thought this murder would make us back down, they are very wrong. Very wrong.”"
The surviving victim clearly said that when they thought that this was a deliberate BLM attack. They wouldn't be saying that now. And just to be clear, the surviving victim describing it as murder, doesn't mean that it was murder. |
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"If it were in the UK would it be manslaughter? Or causing death by reckless driving (if that's an official thing)
In the UK it would be 'causing death by dangerous driving'.
The surviving victim wrote: "“In a lot of pain. I cannot believe Summer was murdered,” “If they thought this murder would make us back down, they are very wrong. Very wrong.”
The surviving victim clearly said that when they thought that this was a deliberate BLM attack. They wouldn't be saying that now. And just to be clear, the surviving victim describing it as murder, doesn't mean that it was murder."
Thank you. It seems although a totally stupid act on his part he did not set out with the intention to kill hence the sentence. It does seem though that the recklessness he displayed should carry a tougher sentence. If it's already at the top of the allowed limit then perhaps the limit needs raising for such events. |
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