FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Biggest tax-raising Parliament since records began
Biggest tax-raising Parliament since records began
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *deepdive OP Man 32 weeks ago
France / Birmingham |
The government is on course to oversee the biggest tax-raising Parliament since records began or so it would appear and responding to the report, a Treasury spokesperson said the "most effective tax cut we can deliver" is to "drive down inflation".
Yet, as far as I recall, the incumbent government touted itself as the party of lower taxation!
I don't doubt that higher taxes are necessary but what I don't like are the constant lies, change of focus (HS2 to potholes) and blame.
Surely a government (our government) would be better trusted to come clean and tell us how bad (or good things) are rather than apparently moving from one headline to another with a defence of straplines and trying to move the focus elsewhere (Braverman).
Would a government which was actually honest survive in the current political climate? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
Context for OP (hope you don’t mind)....
Sky News
“Rishi Sunak and Boris Johnson have overseen the largest set of tax rises since the Second World War, according to economic analysis.
The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) estimates that - by the time of the next general election - the tax burden will have risen to around 37% of national income.
This equates to roughly £3,500 extra per household - although the increase is not shared evenly“ |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"I see Sunak making some bold tax moves in an effort to win back voters before the election.
Starting with inheritance tax  "
“The current cost of abolishing inheritance tax would be £7 billion. Around half (47%) of the benefit would go to those with estates of £2.1 million or more at death, who make up the top 1% of estates and would benefit from an average tax cut of around £1.1 million. The 90% or so of estates not paying inheritance tax would not be directly affected by such a reform”
Source: IFS |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see Sunak making some bold tax moves in an effort to win back voters before the election.
Starting with inheritance tax
“The current cost of abolishing inheritance tax would be £7 billion. Around half (47%) of the benefit would go to those with estates of £2.1 million or more at death, who make up the top 1% of estates and would benefit from an average tax cut of around £1.1 million. The 90% or so of estates not paying inheritance tax would not be directly affected by such a reform”
Source: IFS"
Thanks for the lecture.
Still hoping it gets cut |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"I see Sunak making some bold tax moves in an effort to win back voters before the election.
Starting with inheritance tax
“The current cost of abolishing inheritance tax would be £7 billion. Around half (47%) of the benefit would go to those with estates of £2.1 million or more at death, who make up the top 1% of estates and would benefit from an average tax cut of around £1.1 million. The 90% or so of estates not paying inheritance tax would not be directly affected by such a reform”
Source: IFS
Thanks for the lecture.
Still hoping it gets cut "
Reporting data isn’t a lecture   |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see Sunak making some bold tax moves in an effort to win back voters before the election.
Starting with inheritance tax
“The current cost of abolishing inheritance tax would be £7 billion. Around half (47%) of the benefit would go to those with estates of £2.1 million or more at death, who make up the top 1% of estates and would benefit from an average tax cut of around £1.1 million. The 90% or so of estates not paying inheritance tax would not be directly affected by such a reform”
Source: IFS
Thanks for the lecture.
Still hoping it gets cut
Reporting data isn’t a lecture "
Let’s hope it gets cut alongside a myriad of other cuts. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"I see Sunak making some bold tax moves in an effort to win back voters before the election.
Starting with inheritance tax
“The current cost of abolishing inheritance tax would be £7 billion. Around half (47%) of the benefit would go to those with estates of £2.1 million or more at death, who make up the top 1% of estates and would benefit from an average tax cut of around £1.1 million. The 90% or so of estates not paying inheritance tax would not be directly affected by such a reform”
Source: IFS
Thanks for the lecture.
Still hoping it gets cut
Reporting data isn’t a lecture
Let’s hope it gets cut alongside a myriad of other cuts. "
Not a fan of well funded services, then? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I see Sunak making some bold tax moves in an effort to win back voters before the election.
Starting with inheritance tax
“The current cost of abolishing inheritance tax would be £7 billion. Around half (47%) of the benefit would go to those with estates of £2.1 million or more at death, who make up the top 1% of estates and would benefit from an average tax cut of around £1.1 million. The 90% or so of estates not paying inheritance tax would not be directly affected by such a reform”
Source: IFS
Thanks for the lecture.
Still hoping it gets cut
Reporting data isn’t a lecture
Let’s hope it gets cut alongside a myriad of other cuts.
Not a fan of well funded services, then? "
Oh no an insinuation what will I do.
Our services have always been so well funded and efficient during these taxes………..
Where I am from our roads beautiful and not pot holed our education free until 21 and hospitals brilliant. No where near the level of taxes and no inheritance tax. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Its to pay for all the money borrowed to pay for dodgy Covid-19 contracts."
Yup!
People defend the Govt over the unbelievable p igate approach to spending taxpayers money during the crisis of the pandemic. eg. Awarding PPE contracts to “mates” with no track record in the area.
Last I read, the Govt was going to write off £4bn in suspected fraudulent Covid loans and grants. That is OUR money! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Can someone explain something to me?
The people who are 'mocking' this news all seem to be 'socialists' who rely on high taxation for their ideology to work.
I understand I'll get the answer of 'it hasn't been invested properly', but that doesn't answer why people are 'mocking' the tories for a high tax burden. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"Can someone explain something to me?
The people who are 'mocking' this news all seem to be 'socialists' who rely on high taxation for their ideology to work.
I understand I'll get the answer of 'it hasn't been invested properly', but that doesn't answer why people are 'mocking' the tories for a high tax burden. "
Probably because they’re sold as the party of small govt. and fiscal responsibility. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Can someone explain something to me?
The people who are 'mocking' this news all seem to be 'socialists' who rely on high taxation for their ideology to work.
I understand I'll get the answer of 'it hasn't been invested properly', but that doesn't answer why people are 'mocking' the tories for a high tax burden. "
I suspect it’s more the oft trotted out Tory mantra if being better with the economy and being in favour of low tax etc while accusing Labour of the opposite on both points. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?"
I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject. Look at how they responded to Labour’s 2017 and 2019 manifestos. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!"
You're not a socialist. Tbf, the people on this forum aren't the people I'm talking about. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!"
Nothing will change with them. They u turned on private schools though |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!"
100% - I want a labour govt. but if they performed as we’ve seen from the tories since 2010 (and more so since 2015) I’ll be at the front of the queue attacking them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject. Look at how they responded to Labour’s 2017 and 2019 manifestos."
As I thought then. Its actually about standards rather than high tax? A high tax burden is a better story though because it goes against what the Tories stand for. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
Nothing will change with them. They u turned on private schools though "
I couldn't find the original thread where we were talking about it |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
Nothing will change with them. They u turned on private schools though "
Only on Charitable status not applying VAT (but don’t get me started as I will bore the ass off you all) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
You're not a socialist. Tbf, the people on this forum aren't the people I'm talking about. "
Shhhh some people on here are convinced I am a socialist! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
Nothing will change with them. They u turned on private schools though
Only on Charitable status not applying VAT (but don’t get me started as I will bore the ass off you all)"
One tiny U turn already I suspect more to follow. Kier is Tory lite after all. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
100% - I want a labour govt. but if they performed as we’ve seen from the tories since 2010 (and more so since 2015) I’ll be at the front of the queue attacking them."
Doesn’t matter what colour the tie is, they are supposed to work for us not themselves/cronies/mates! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher."
"All my life it has been one or the other no alternative."
What kind of potential alternative political would tempt you?
I've only ever voted for one of the big two a single time, and don't feel like either appeal to me this time around. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
100% - I want a labour govt. but if they performed as we’ve seen from the tories since 2010 (and more so since 2015) I’ll be at the front of the queue attacking them.
Doesn’t matter what colour the tie is, they are supposed to work for us not themselves/cronies/mates!"
This should be a given.
Alas the bar has been set so low in this county over the past 13 years that's it's hard to imagine a government that would consider prioritising the country and its people. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"Can't be arsed to quote you both...
So really this is just a point scoring exercise?
Not for me. I will slag off Labour when they are in Government too!
Nothing will change with them. They u turned on private schools though
Only on Charitable status not applying VAT (but don’t get me started as I will bore the ass off you all)
One tiny U turn already I suspect more to follow. Kier is Tory lite after all. "
Rumours swirling that Keir’s opposition campaign team (behind the scenes - The McFadden’s, Doyle, Mattison etc) will be stood down after a successful election - because opposition politics are different from governmental politics. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject."
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site) 32 weeks ago
|
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject.
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?"
Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject.
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?
Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs"
Trrom the article:
"the thinktank said tax revenue was on track to amount to about 37% of national income in 2024, up from about 33% four years ago."
That is not the same as 'tax rises'.
Now any chance you could answer the question asked? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher.
"All my life it has been one or the other no alternative."
What kind of potential alternative political would tempt you?
I've only ever voted for one of the big two a single time, and don't feel like either appeal to me this time around. "
Good question my man, and I will be honest I am stumped, I have no alternative other than what "they" suggest proportional representation.
But that wouldn't get my vote either.
Another thread suggested changing the whole system, one that is balanced, and run by the people, but that fell into chaos.
History shows revolution, but revolution leads to dictators, and then democracy takes over again.
So all I can do is to not be a part of it as others are doing. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher.
"All my life it has been one or the other no alternative."
What kind of potential alternative political would tempt you?
I've only ever voted for one of the big two a single time, and don't feel like either appeal to me this time around.
Good question my man, and I will be honest I am stumped, I have no alternative other than what "they" suggest proportional representation.
But that wouldn't get my vote either.
Another thread suggested changing the whole system, one that is balanced, and run by the people, but that fell into chaos.
History shows revolution, but revolution leads to dictators, and then democracy takes over again.
So all I can do is to not be a part of it as others are doing."
Fair enough, my opinion is that the system exists to perpetuate, keep those at the top, at the top, and keep the rest of us fighting amongst ourselves.
But I still vote, some of the smaller parties have actual values, and they somewhat drag the main parties around a little as they clamour for votes. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher.
"All my life it has been one or the other no alternative."
What kind of potential alternative political would tempt you?
I've only ever voted for one of the big two a single time, and don't feel like either appeal to me this time around.
Good question my man, and I will be honest I am stumped, I have no alternative other than what "they" suggest proportional representation.
But that wouldn't get my vote either.
Another thread suggested changing the whole system, one that is balanced, and run by the people, but that fell into chaos.
History shows revolution, but revolution leads to dictators, and then democracy takes over again.
So all I can do is to not be a part of it as others are doing.
Fair enough, my opinion is that the system exists to perpetuate, keep those at the top, at the top, and keep the rest of us fighting amongst ourselves.
But I still vote, some of the smaller parties have actual values, and they somewhat drag the main parties around a little as they clamour for votes. "
Not for a moment do I think your wrong, I agree, I suppose I am disillusioned, and I would give my vote to smaller parties, but look what happened to the Lib Dems the tories took the mick out of them.
they were inexperienced and the tories took advantage ruined their image as a stable party.
I just think there has to be another way, what that is I have no idea. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher.
"All my life it has been one or the other no alternative."
What kind of potential alternative political would tempt you?
I've only ever voted for one of the big two a single time, and don't feel like either appeal to me this time around.
Good question my man, and I will be honest I am stumped, I have no alternative other than what "they" suggest proportional representation.
But that wouldn't get my vote either.
Another thread suggested changing the whole system, one that is balanced, and run by the people, but that fell into chaos.
History shows revolution, but revolution leads to dictators, and then democracy takes over again.
So all I can do is to not be a part of it as others are doing.
Fair enough, my opinion is that the system exists to perpetuate, keep those at the top, at the top, and keep the rest of us fighting amongst ourselves.
But I still vote, some of the smaller parties have actual values, and they somewhat drag the main parties around a little as they clamour for votes.
Not for a moment do I think your wrong, I agree, I suppose I am disillusioned, and I would give my vote to smaller parties, but look what happened to the Lib Dems the tories took the mick out of them.
they were inexperienced and the tories took advantage ruined their image as a stable party.
I just think there has to be another way, what that is I have no idea."
I feel like we reached a satisfactory conclusion with slight differences of opinion!
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I am from a labour family and ive been attacking them for some months now.
Why is it called an election, might as well say it is there turn now.
All my life it has been one or the other no alternative.
This time none get my vote, and figures suggest I am not alone.
Every year the number that do not vote gets higher.
"All my life it has been one or the other no alternative."
What kind of potential alternative political would tempt you?
I've only ever voted for one of the big two a single time, and don't feel like either appeal to me this time around.
Good question my man, and I will be honest I am stumped, I have no alternative other than what "they" suggest proportional representation.
But that wouldn't get my vote either.
Another thread suggested changing the whole system, one that is balanced, and run by the people, but that fell into chaos.
History shows revolution, but revolution leads to dictators, and then democracy takes over again.
So all I can do is to not be a part of it as others are doing.
Fair enough, my opinion is that the system exists to perpetuate, keep those at the top, at the top, and keep the rest of us fighting amongst ourselves.
But I still vote, some of the smaller parties have actual values, and they somewhat drag the main parties around a little as they clamour for votes.
Not for a moment do I think your wrong, I agree, I suppose I am disillusioned, and I would give my vote to smaller parties, but look what happened to the Lib Dems the tories took the mick out of them.
they were inexperienced and the tories took advantage ruined their image as a stable party.
I just think there has to be another way, what that is I have no idea.
I feel like we reached a satisfactory conclusion with slight differences of opinion!
"
In truth we want the same thing, I am just confused as to how to start, thanks for your reasoning its appreciated. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject."
"Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?"
"Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs"
You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject.
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?
Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?"
I do not know this for a fact but hazard a guess that freezing tax thresholds (which is effectively a tax increase via fiscal drag) helped. Also the clawback on child benefit once one partner earns between £50-60k. The clawback on taxfree personal allowance once you earn between £100-125k. There are probably stealth taxes too. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject.
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?
Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?
I do not know this for a fact but hazard a guess that freezing tax thresholds (which is effectively a tax increase via fiscal drag) helped. Also the clawback on child benefit once one partner earns between £50-60k. The clawback on taxfree personal allowance once you earn between £100-125k. There are probably stealth taxes too."
P.S. and increased economic activity of course which is a good thing but that is in absolute terms in relation to tax take vs proportionality which is what the term “tax burden” surely relates to? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?"
"I do not know this for a fact but hazard a guess that freezing tax thresholds (which is effectively a tax increase via fiscal drag) helped. Also the clawback on child benefit once one partner earns between £50-60k. The clawback on taxfree personal allowance once you earn between £100-125k. There are probably stealth taxes too."
These are good examples of actual tax increases the Tories can be said to have made, but the amounts are tiny. To get the sort of uptick you see in the IFS graph would take tens to hundreds of billions.
"P.S. and increased economic activity of course which is a good thing but that is in absolute terms in relation to tax take vs proportionality which is what the term “tax burden” surely relates to?"
The term "tax burden" (as used by The Guardian and not by the IFS), means 'the amount of tax collected as a percentage of GDP'. Notice that it's not the amount of tax *levied*, but the amount of tax *collected*. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?
I do not know this for a fact but hazard a guess that freezing tax thresholds (which is effectively a tax increase via fiscal drag) helped. Also the clawback on child benefit once one partner earns between £50-60k. The clawback on taxfree personal allowance once you earn between £100-125k. There are probably stealth taxes too.
These are good examples of actual tax increases the Tories can be said to have made, but the amounts are tiny. To get the sort of uptick you see in the IFS graph would take tens to hundreds of billions.
P.S. and increased economic activity of course which is a good thing but that is in absolute terms in relation to tax take vs proportionality which is what the term “tax burden” surely relates to?
The term "tax burden" (as used by The Guardian and not by the IFS), means 'the amount of tax collected as a percentage of GDP'. Notice that it's not the amount of tax *levied*, but the amount of tax *collected*."
So people earning more money recently would affect the tax collected then presumably? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject.
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?
Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?"
Tax revenue increased in 2020 due to inheritance tax from the unexpected inheritance people were receiving from family members who died from covid. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject."
"Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?"
"Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs"
"You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?"
"Tax revenue increased in 2020 due to inheritance tax from the unexpected inheritance people were receiving from family members who died from covid."
Possibly not, because a lot of the civil service shut down at the start of CoViD regulations, so they weren't doing so much checking. Which leads us to one of the reasons for the sudden uptick in the graph.
Lockdown introduced furlough, in which lots of people were paid their wage, but they stayed at home. This means that they still paid taxes on their income, but they didn't do any work. Less work done across the UK, means a lower GDP, and that's what we're seeing.
The figure the IFS is reporting is the tax collected as a percentage of GDP. If people on furlough are paying the same taxes, but GDP is falling, then it will look like the percentage of tax is rising.
The second thing that's affecting the figure is also because of CoViD. Once it hit we all suddenly realised that passing little bits of germ-ridden paper and metal between each other to pay for things was a bad idea, and we all switched from cash to electronic payments. Nowadays almost everyone takes contactless, because you'll lose customers if you don't.
It's much harder to squirrel away the odd bit of cash here and there with electronic payments. In addition, the recent bank changes mean that there's now software that can scan your bank account and do most of the accounting for you. These things have reduced the amount of cash that used to 'accidentally' bypass the register.
We're not seeing more tax being levied by the Tories, we're seeing more tax being collected, because evasion has been made more complex and less worthwhile. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"I think it’s fair to point out tax rises when standards are clearly falling dramatically - moreso when the govt. creating these tax rises is the first to attack the opposition on the same subject.
Go on then, point them out. Which taxes have the Tories raised during their tenure?
I'll start you off with the recent rise in Corporation Tax, from 19% to 25%. The new rate is still 3% lower than it was when the Tories came into power.
So what other taxes have the evil Tories unjustly levied on us?
Here you go, sweetie. This is what the OP was referring to.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/sep/29/uk-households-face-tax-rise-of-3500-a-year-by-next-election-finds-ifs
You'll get a better picture by reading the original report at: https://ifs.org.uk/articles/will-be-biggest-tax-raising-parliament-record
For starters you'll discover that it doesn't use the phrase "tax burden", not does it claim that taxes are the highest since any particular time.
Take a look at figure 1 which shows that the tax revenue collected was about 33% through the Labour years, and on into the Tory years. Then it suddenly shoots upwards in 2020.
Can you name a tax which the Tories changed which would cause that sort of increase?
Or can you think of another reason why the amount of tax collected might suddenly rise in that particular year?
Tax revenue increased in 2020 due to inheritance tax from the unexpected inheritance people were receiving from family members who died from covid.
Possibly not, because a lot of the civil service shut down at the start of CoViD regulations, so they weren't doing so much checking. Which leads us to one of the reasons for the sudden uptick in the graph.
Lockdown introduced furlough, in which lots of people were paid their wage, but they stayed at home. This means that they still paid taxes on their income, but they didn't do any work. Less work done across the UK, means a lower GDP, and that's what we're seeing.
The figure the IFS is reporting is the tax collected as a percentage of GDP. If people on furlough are paying the same taxes, but GDP is falling, then it will look like the percentage of tax is rising.
The second thing that's affecting the figure is also because of CoViD. Once it hit we all suddenly realised that passing little bits of germ-ridden paper and metal between each other to pay for things was a bad idea, and we all switched from cash to electronic payments. Nowadays almost everyone takes contactless, because you'll lose customers if you don't.
It's much harder to squirrel away the odd bit of cash here and there with electronic payments. In addition, the recent bank changes mean that there's now software that can scan your bank account and do most of the accounting for you. These things have reduced the amount of cash that used to 'accidentally' bypass the register.
We're not seeing more tax being levied by the Tories, we're seeing more tax being collected, because evasion has been made more complex and less worthwhile."
That all makes much more sense than a sudden increase of taxation levels which the article seemed to imply |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"No need to panic everyone, those high prices you're paying is not due to higher tax.
In fact this is the lowest taxing government to date.
So sit back relax take a chill pill all will be ok."
That’s not very reassuring |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
