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Farage, the next chapter?
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By *otMe66 OP Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months."
He was always likely to return to his party. He wants to be an MP so badly. |
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"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months."
He got what he wanted. The a nice cushty job. Most politicians known the score and talk to each other.
Thats why you hear about our Angie Rayner talking about her fiery beaver in the commons bar to several tory mps
Most are in it for the gravy train. |
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By *otMe66 OP Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months.
He was always likely to return to his party. He wants to be an MP so badly."
I hope he does, he will bring a change that is needed in our politics. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months.
He was always likely to return to his party. He wants to be an MP so badly.
I hope he does, he will bring a change that is needed in our politics."
He really won’t. He’ll be another MP that prefers TV sound bites to constituent surgeries.
His time as an MEP revealed him to be a very lazy representative. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket"
Them shifting so far right is equivalent of Labour’s dalliance with Milne/Corbyn (though Farage is probs farther right than Corbyn was left)
A Farage allegiance is purely to shut out the Reform ghouls. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket"
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed."
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum. "
I am talking specifically about an online test every 1 could do. To see where they fit.
Those who took it and ended up on the left were usually about half way down the left hand side.
I was thenfurthest right but being 1/5th down the right hand side.
This was an independent test that scored you. Not me.
I am merely commenting that it's likely the left have a more skewed vision km the centre ground
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum. "
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it. "
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
|
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it. "
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
|
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
"
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
|
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
"
Is there a variance between what is considered left/right/centre between the USA and U.K?
(I’m asking because I know the answer  ) |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
"
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
|
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre. "
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist? |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist? "
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist? "
It would be the sane political spectrum regardless.. the skew would be in the questions about certain laws. But it would still show whether you were right or left wing. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
|
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people. "
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people.
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud "
Om thenwhole.
So they all think Obama care was a disaster then and should be repealed.
Brilliant new for trump |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people.
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud "
They are socialist concepts. Not extrmee, but socialist nonetheless.
Do you have any data to back up 'Americans on the whole'? |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
|
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people.
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud
They are socialist concepts. Not extrmee, but socialist nonetheless.
Do you have any data to back up 'Americans on the whole'?"
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/432072-majority-of-americans-see-universal-health-care-as-largely-socialist/
|
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people.
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud
They are socialist concepts. Not extrmee, but socialist nonetheless.
Do you have any data to back up 'Americans on the whole'?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/432072-majority-of-americans-see-universal-health-care-as-largely-socialist/
"
Cheers. The question framed only allowed for 'largely socialist' or 'largely capitalist' amd didnt allow for anything else. They're not wrong though. This is why 'what question was asked' is important. Universal Healthcare is a socialist concept. One would argue its a basic right (I agree) but still socialistic. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people.
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud
They are socialist concepts. Not extrmee, but socialist nonetheless.
Do you have any data to back up 'Americans on the whole'?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/432072-majority-of-americans-see-universal-health-care-as-largely-socialist/
Cheers. The question framed only allowed for 'largely socialist' or 'largely capitalist' amd didnt allow for anything else. They're not wrong though. This is why 'what question was asked' is important. Universal Healthcare is a socialist concept. One would argue its a basic right (I agree) but still socialistic. "
Would people in the uk vote differently? I wouldn't have thought people based on that question asked would see any different vs America |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
Got any examples?
Do they consider the spectrum differently to us? It's a bit of a misnomer, as you would consider the spectrum differently to me, and were in the same country.
You think the forum is majority right-wing, others think left-wing. This is why I do these little tests now and then so we can have a broader understanding of more people.
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud
They are socialist concepts. Not extrmee, but socialist nonetheless.
Do you have any data to back up 'Americans on the whole'?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/432072-majority-of-americans-see-universal-health-care-as-largely-socialist/
Cheers. The question framed only allowed for 'largely socialist' or 'largely capitalist' amd didnt allow for anything else. They're not wrong though. This is why 'what question was asked' is important. Universal Healthcare is a socialist concept. One would argue its a basic right (I agree) but still socialistic.
Would people in the uk vote differently? I wouldn't have thought people based on that question asked would see any different vs America "
I don't believe they would have.
As I've said, regardless of where in the world you are, the state providing something 'free' is socialistic. |
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"
Americans on the whole view public healthcare as a very socialist concept. Free school meals too. But to us they’re not considered a particularly extreme concept. Many Americans accuse Biden of being a socialist for crying out loud
They are socialist concepts. Not extrmee, but socialist nonetheless.
Do you have any data to back up 'Americans on the whole'?
https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/432072-majority-of-americans-see-universal-health-care-as-largely-socialist/
Cheers. The question framed only allowed for 'largely socialist' or 'largely capitalist' amd didnt allow for anything else. They're not wrong though. This is why 'what question was asked' is important. Universal Healthcare is a socialist concept. One would argue its a basic right (I agree) but still socialistic. "
Public healthcare is socialistic. I don't see why anyone would say otherwise. It is run by government and everyone is forced to pay money to run it.
The problem with some people is that they think having a public healthcare makes the entire country socialist. We could run a predominantly capitalistic economy while using socialism for healthcare.
I like the idea of having public healthcare. But wouldn't call it a basic right though because having public healthcare is a privilege countries with resources and a productive population can afford. But it's hard otherwise. For me basic rights are stuff like freedom of speech which have no reason to be taken away. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed."
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits. |
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By *otMe66 OP Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits. "
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
"
Of course it alters the outcome. Data out can only reflect data in and criteria measuring data. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket"
Us that because Labour has moved so far right that the Tories have to keep a distance to avoid catching anything.. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently"
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part."
You should make a list of regular posters, I think you'll be surprised |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently"
I see the split being not necessarily left/right. But there seem to be the same people on each side.
Immigration
Environment
Brexit
Tory sleaze/corruption
I genuinely don't know why wanting the planet to remain habitable is seen as a left wing thing. As an example. While being anti-immigrant is seen as being right wing, although it has absolutely nothing to do with right wing economic or social views.
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre. "
Only dipping in today so disjointed out if sync responses...
It is more than abortion views that skew the results. The USA is generally also skewed towards fundamental christian views and supportive of capital punishment. The Democrats are considered left wing, and virtual socialists in the USA but would be centrist at best in UK and Europe. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
It’s an American site, so the same question to you above - In the USA, do they consider the spectrum differently to us? I.E do we consider some things to be centrist and ‘normal’, that Americans would call socialist?
It would be the sane political spectrum regardless.. the skew would be in the questions about certain laws. But it would still show whether you were right or left wing."
Morley no. It would skew the results to pull someone further in one direction. In this case the USA is generally more right wing than Europe as they have a two party system with a centre party and right party. They have no left wing party. So the American based tool uses a set of questions that distort the results making people seem further to the left if they hold UK or European sensibilities. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
You should make a list of regular posters, I think you'll be surprised "
Is that allowed? If a Mod could tell me if we are allowed to do that then I would give it a crack. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
You should make a list of regular posters, I think you'll be surprised
Is that allowed? If a Mod could tell me if we are allowed to do that then I would give it a crack."
Not sure tbf. Maybe we could just ask where people see themselves then laugh at half of them |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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https://www.politico.eu/article/nigel-farage-uk-eu-brexit-has-failed/#:~:text=We've%20mismanaged%20this%20totally,down%20very%2C%20very%20badly.%E2%80%9D
In May this year, Farage said the above. He blamed the Tories...the very party that are now lauding him.
They need a vote winner, he needs a career kick start... it's a match made in heaven for him and the Tories, but no-one else. I mean, the man was bleating about how tough things are due to having his account terminated by a bank that 99% of us would never get an account at!
Politician? He's cut out for it being greedy, selfish, self interested and entitled.
Man of the people?
Do pull the other one, for it hath bells upon it. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits. "
I don't think centre line should not move from country to country. If we brainswash the entire country to predominantly left wing or predominantly right wing, should centre also move along with that? I don't think so. Just because most people in Europe prefer public healthcare, it doesn't stop being a left wing policy.
The centre line should stay the same so that we will know if majority of the population is left wing or right wing. |
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As for Farage, joining Tories right now would be a huuuge mistake. Most people are in the "Anyone but Tories" mindset. Unless he has a constituency in mind that he is so sure about, I am not sure how it helps him. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
I don't think centre line should not move from country to country. If we brainswash the entire country to predominantly left wing or predominantly right wing, should centre also move along with that? I don't think so. Just because most people in Europe prefer public healthcare, it doesn't stop being a left wing policy.
The centre line should stay the same so that we will know if majority of the population is left wing or right wing. "
Not suggesting the centre line moves. But what sits either side of the line will depend on a combination of personal views and the prevailing political sentiment in a country. The USA is generally more right wing than European countries.
As someone said above, just because one or two govt policies could be classed as left wing doesn’t mean that govt is left wing. It is the sum of the parts not the parts themselves that determine things. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
I don't think centre line should not move from country to country. If we brainswash the entire country to predominantly left wing or predominantly right wing, should centre also move along with that? I don't think so. Just because most people in Europe prefer public healthcare, it doesn't stop being a left wing policy.
The centre line should stay the same so that we will know if majority of the population is left wing or right wing.
Not suggesting the centre line moves. But what sits either side of the line will depend on a combination of personal views and the prevailing political sentiment in a country. The USA is generally more right wing than European countries.
As someone said above, just because one or two govt policies could be classed as left wing doesn’t mean that govt is left wing. It is the sum of the parts not the parts themselves that determine things."
The USA is generally more right wing. So republican party is right wing and Democrats are close to centre. In UK, Tories are centre right because they don't want to remove public healthcare. Labour under Starmer is centre. Labour under Corbyn is left wing.
We don't have a right wing party unless there is a party that wants to get rid of public healthcare and any welfare system, the same way US doesn't have a major left wing party, unless AOC starts her own. It's much useful and truthful to use the same scale instead of using different scales for different countries. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
I don't think centre line should not move from country to country. If we brainswash the entire country to predominantly left wing or predominantly right wing, should centre also move along with that? I don't think so. Just because most people in Europe prefer public healthcare, it doesn't stop being a left wing policy.
The centre line should stay the same so that we will know if majority of the population is left wing or right wing.
Not suggesting the centre line moves. But what sits either side of the line will depend on a combination of personal views and the prevailing political sentiment in a country. The USA is generally more right wing than European countries.
As someone said above, just because one or two govt policies could be classed as left wing doesn’t mean that govt is left wing. It is the sum of the parts not the parts themselves that determine things.
The USA is generally more right wing. So republican party is right wing and Democrats are close to centre. In UK, Tories are centre right because they don't want to remove public healthcare. Labour under Starmer is centre. Labour under Corbyn is left wing.
We don't have a right wing party unless there is a party that wants to get rid of public healthcare and any welfare system, the same way US doesn't have a major left wing party, unless AOC starts her own. It's much useful and truthful to use the same scale instead of using different scales for different countries."
I’d agree with your first para. Second para is, in my opinion, too simplistic because it doesn’t take account of political expediency. It would be political suicide for any party in the UK to publicly announce they intend to axe the NHS or welfare!
The scale is where we see ourselves based on answering a set if questions. However, that particular tool was developed in the USA and the questions reflect the cultural and political sentiment in the USA and therefore skews the answers for people from the UK. |
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"Farage: Politician? He's cut out for it being greedy, selfish, self interested and entitled."
Can you think of any other politician that has tirelessly campaigned to abolish their own job? He can't be seen as entirely greedy if he was instrumental in cutting himself off from his source of income. |
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"
The centre line should stay the same so that we will know if majority of the population is left wing or right wing.
Not suggesting the centre line moves. But what sits either side of the line will depend on a combination of personal views and the prevailing political sentiment in a country. The USA is generally more right wing than European countries.
As someone said above, just because one or two govt policies could be classed as left wing doesn’t mean that govt is left wing. It is the sum of the parts not the parts themselves that determine things.
The USA is generally more right wing. So republican party is right wing and Democrats are close to centre. In UK, Tories are centre right because they don't want to remove public healthcare. Labour under Starmer is centre. Labour under Corbyn is left wing.
We don't have a right wing party unless there is a party that wants to get rid of public healthcare and any welfare system, the same way US doesn't have a major left wing party, unless AOC starts her own. It's much useful and truthful to use the same scale instead of using different scales for different countries.
I’d agree with your first para. Second para is, in my opinion, too simplistic because it doesn’t take account of political expediency. It would be political suicide for any party in the UK to publicly announce they intend to axe the NHS or welfare!
The scale is where we see ourselves based on answering a set if questions. However, that particular tool was developed in the USA and the questions reflect the cultural and political sentiment in the USA and therefore skews the answers for people from the UK. "
It doesn't skew. A government running a service with tax money is left wing no matter which country we are talking about. It is an objective definition and not subjective. If we are saying that Tories are economically far right, what would you call a party that comes in later and says we need to get rid of public healthcare? For one thing, we need to accurately represent what left wing economics means. For another thing, people need to have the correct know the standing of a country's politicians in global scale and understand that there are plenty of other possibilities.
That tool has been used to find the political standing of politicians all over the world and while it is not perfect, it does a fairly good job. Yes some people in the US say that the Democrats(Under Biden) are economically left wing. But they are the ones who are wrong. The tool itself is right in saying that they are economically centrists. |
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"Farage: Politician? He's cut out for it being greedy, selfish, self interested and entitled.
Can you think of any other politician that has tirelessly campaigned to abolish their own job? He can't be seen as entirely greedy if he was instrumental in cutting himself off from his source of income."
Not his only source of income btw. |
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By *coptoCouple 33 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
“His time as an MEP revealed him to be a very lazy representative”
Wot, actually read and dissect legislative proposals, attend Committee meetings to discuss them, try to amend them to the UK’s advantage, turn up for Parliamentary sessions and vote for or against them…
… or occasionally shout out “D*unker Junker” (but be photographed down the pub with a beer in his hand) and be hailed as “one of the lads”.
And as for campaigning himself out of a job, neither he nor BJ himself REALLY thought the UK would vote itself into the last century. |
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By *otMe66 OP Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
You should make a list of regular posters, I think you'll be surprised
Is that allowed? If a Mod could tell me if we are allowed to do that then I would give it a crack.
Not sure tbf. Maybe we could just ask where people see themselves then laugh at half of them "
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"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months."
If he were to join then he would be going against his old buddy Tice who says he wants to destroy the Tory party. Maybe if they agreed to cooperate he could join but I think he will want a fair chance of running for leadership when they are in opposition as well. |
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By *otMe66 OP Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months.
If he were to join then he would be going against his old buddy Tice who says he wants to destroy the Tory party. Maybe if they agreed to cooperate he could join but I think he will want a fair chance of running for leadership when they are in opposition as well."
He has a track record, he was behind the referendum driving it through UKIP.
Not everyones cup of tea but gets a job done. |
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"Looks like Nigel is being seen as a hero, welcomed by both Priti and Liz in Manchester, the singing and partying was a welcome change to the usual boring goings on.
It is going to be a very interesting 12 months.
If he were to join then he would be going against his old buddy Tice who says he wants to destroy the Tory party. Maybe if they agreed to cooperate he could join but I think he will want a fair chance of running for leadership when they are in opposition as well.
He has a track record, he was behind the referendum driving it through UKIP.
Not everyones cup of tea but gets a job done. "
I believe his description was an invasion (happy to be corrected on that) whereas braverman says a hurricane. It's much the same thing but only one gets labelled racist |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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Nigel Farage is a shameless self-promoter.
As are most politicians.
We haven’t always had sensationalist populists though.
David Cameron and Theresa May both felt as though they had the best interests of the country at heart
Personally I blame the media for refusing to discuss the middle and discussing either end of the spectrum ad nauseum |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits. "
The centra is simple policies left or right. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
Of course it alters the outcome. Data out can only reflect data in and criteria measuring data."
It certainly doesn't.
Agsin the question are very basic as an analysis tool.
Not too deep.
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part."
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
Only dipping in today so disjointed out if sync responses...
It is more than abortion views that skew the results. The USA is generally also skewed towards fundamental christian views and supportive of capital punishment. The Democrats are considered left wing, and virtual socialists in the USA but would be centrist at best in UK and Europe."
I dont think this is the case at all.
Not when they're enacting policies of blocking free market agreements breaching international agreements to do this.
Many talk about open borders and safe states, no prosecutions for shoplifting. Abortions up until day kf Birth.
Quite a lot of left wing woke/ trans progressive ideology comes out of America and has entered Europe
I would also argue particularly the Eastern European states would be FAR more right wing than most of America.
Have you been to Poland, Hungary, cech Republic?
Have you seen what their governemnts are doing?
It was a simple test with simple answers on global social policies and finance. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
Of course it alters the outcome. Data out can only reflect data in and criteria measuring data.
It certainly doesn't.
Agsin the question are very basic as an analysis tool.
Not too deep.
"
I disagree. However, if you think it is very basic then the outcome is probably worthless anyway. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias."
Why do you reinvent history? I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist! You were further right than I was left. |
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By *irldnCouple 33 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
There were no 'limitations'. We agreed it was skewed slightly because of abortion questions.
It still doesn't alter the fact that the results were overwhelmingly to the left of centre.
Only dipping in today so disjointed out if sync responses...
It is more than abortion views that skew the results. The USA is generally also skewed towards fundamental christian views and supportive of capital punishment. The Democrats are considered left wing, and virtual socialists in the USA but would be centrist at best in UK and Europe.
I dont think this is the case at all.
Not when they're enacting policies of blocking free market agreements breaching international agreements to do this.
Many talk about open borders and safe states, no prosecutions for shoplifting. Abortions up until day kf Birth.
Quite a lot of left wing woke/ trans progressive ideology comes out of America and has entered Europe
I would also argue particularly the Eastern European states would be FAR more right wing than most of America.
Have you been to Poland, Hungary, cech Republic?
Have you seen what their governemnts are doing?
It was a simple test with simple answers on global social policies and finance. "
Fair point. When I said Europe I was thinking more Western Europe and the original members of the EU rather than some of the Eastern Europe countries. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias."
In fairness, you said you think the Nazis were left wing. So it all just becomes a meaningless soup of nonsense. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
Of course it alters the outcome. Data out can only reflect data in and criteria measuring data.
It certainly doesn't.
Agsin the question are very basic as an analysis tool.
Not too deep.
I disagree. However, if you think it is very basic then the outcome is probably worthless anyway."
Oh I quite think the opposite.
As we've disagree with before.
Itnstrips it back to its basic core. State intervention bs free market.
Left vs right. It does thay job spectacularly well. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias.
Why do you reinvent history? I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist! You were further right than I was left."
Morley man
Economic Left/Right: 2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79
Birldn
Economic Left/Right: -4.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36
Anything else you want to lie about today? |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
The fact that you view this forum’s views as being more heavily left wing indicates your own position on the political spectrum.
We done the Political Compass. It was overwhelmingly left-centerleft.
You were part of it.
We also discussed the limitations of the political compass test, particularly with the questions asked.
I can think of 2-3 regular ‘overt’ left wing posters on this forum. A far greater number of centrists and right wingers.
and yet the test overwhelmingly showed almost all apart form myself and 1 other I think were left of centre.
It's limitation was that it was for American politics on some questions.
It doesn't alter the fact almost all came out left of centre.
Of course it alters the outcome. Data out can only reflect data in and criteria measuring data.
It certainly doesn't.
Agsin the question are very basic as an analysis tool.
Not too deep.
I disagree. However, if you think it is very basic then the outcome is probably worthless anyway.
Oh I quite think the opposite.
As we've disagree with before.
Itnstrips it back to its basic core. State intervention bs free market.
Left vs right. It does thay job spectacularly well."
It really doesn’t but ok. There are more dimensions than purely those two! The algorithm would adjust against all dimensions to provide an aggregated response.
We won’t agree as I see nuance but you seem to see binary outcomes? |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias.
Why do you reinvent history? I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist! You were further right than I was left.
Morley man
Economic Left/Right: 2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79
Birldn
Economic Left/Right: -4.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36
Anything else you want to lie about today?"
Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
On that basis I don’t believe your results. I think you manipulated them to try and prove a point to paint yourself more centrist then you postings would otherwise indicate. I could do the same if I could be arsed! |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
LOL actually over a cup of tea I cod be arsed. Just changing several of my answers (way less than half) and I get...
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.56
So easy to manipulate without even outright lying. No strongly agrees or strongly disagrees in there. Just switching between Agree/Disagree.
And the USA bias is clear with whole sections on religion/morality and abortion and sex out of marriage, homosexuality, pornography. Totally skews the results! |
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"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?"
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying. |
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"LOL actually over a cup of tea I cod be arsed. Just changing several of my answers (way less than half) and I get...
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.56
So easy to manipulate without even outright lying. No strongly agrees or strongly disagrees in there. Just switching between Agree/Disagree.
And the USA bias is clear with whole sections on religion/morality and abortion and sex out of marriage, homosexuality, pornography. Totally skews the results!"
I'm glad to see that you've decided that the test is completely meaningless, and therefore you won't be bringing up the results any more claiming that they support your position. |
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"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias.
Why do you reinvent history? I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist! You were further right than I was left.
Morley man
Economic Left/Right: 2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79
Birldn
Economic Left/Right: -4.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36
Anything else you want to lie about today?
Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
On that basis I don’t believe your results. I think you manipulated them to try and prove a point to paint yourself more centrist then you postings would otherwise indicate. I could do the same if I could be arsed!"
Feel free to go back and lookat the thread for other peoples results.
You don't beleive my test fine.
I took it genuinely. You seem made about rhe fac ti called you left leaning a while back and you deemed yourself centrist but the test proved this a fabrication.
You then said I was further right than yourself on the test.
This was just an outright lie.
|
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying."
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right? |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"LOL actually over a cup of tea I cod be arsed. Just changing several of my answers (way less than half) and I get...
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.56
So easy to manipulate without even outright lying. No strongly agrees or strongly disagrees in there. Just switching between Agree/Disagree.
And the USA bias is clear with whole sections on religion/morality and abortion and sex out of marriage, homosexuality, pornography. Totally skews the results!
I'm glad to see that you've decided that the test is completely meaningless, and therefore you won't be bringing up the results any more claiming that they support your position."
It wasn’t me who brought it up was it? Have to scroll back up but don’t think so. |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"The Conservatives have moved that far right they're almost aligned with NFs views. He will join the torys and run on a conservative ticket
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
That’s true, but it would have in my opinion moved everyone equally along the horizontal.
As for the forum being left biased, I don’t think there is any doubting that, in fact it’s going well beyond centre left recently
Really? I would say casual posters skew things left and anti-Tory but regular posters feel more centrist and centre-right for the most part.
Nah I'd day there are some heavily left posters.
We've already had this discussion where you considered yourself centrist.
But most like not me and feisty et Al came back centrist and you returned a highs core to the left.
As I say I think people views on centre are skewed by their own bias.
Why do you reinvent history? I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist! You were further right than I was left.
Morley man
Economic Left/Right: 2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.79
Birldn
Economic Left/Right: -4.5
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.36
Anything else you want to lie about today?
Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
On that basis I don’t believe your results. I think you manipulated them to try and prove a point to paint yourself more centrist then you postings would otherwise indicate. I could do the same if I could be arsed!
Feel free to go back and lookat the thread for other peoples results.
You don't beleive my test fine.
I took it genuinely. You seem made about rhe fac ti called you left leaning a while back and you deemed yourself centrist but the test proved this a fabrication.
You then said I was further right than yourself on the test.
This was just an outright lie.
"
Lie. No! Genuine mistake. Yes! However, I don’t believe your results based on your posts but then as per this thread, the tool is skewed and easily manipulated anyway! |
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"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying.
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right?"
Lie is perfect.
We discussed the result at length at the time and you accused me of cheating. Because you can't comprehend you are further left of centre than I am right of centre.
I have always happily admitted I am right of centre.
But when I have said you were left of centre previously you asked me statements you made thay pointed to this I gave you several reasons.
This test for me proved the validity of my claims.
You have for some reason then claimed I re invented history. ( knowing both of our results) and said I was further right than you were left.
This was demonstrably untrue.
I suspect you didn't think I'd go back to the tread and get the results.I did.
Thus I can safely say you lied.
As I know you saw both mine and yours results.
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying.
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right?
Lie is perfect.
We discussed the result at length at the time and you accused me of cheating. Because you can't comprehend you are further left of centre than I am right of centre.
I have always happily admitted I am right of centre.
But when I have said you were left of centre previously you asked me statements you made thay pointed to this I gave you several reasons.
This test for me proved the validity of my claims.
You have for some reason then claimed I re invented history. ( knowing both of our results) and said I was further right than you were left.
This was demonstrably untrue.
I suspect you didn't think I'd go back to the tread and get the results.I did.
Thus I can safely say you lied.
As I know you saw both mine and yours results.
"
Well I guess that must make you feel all warm and fuzzy calling someone a liar. I say genuine mistake and I have said so.
Not sure what prize you win but enjoy it |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"LOL actually over a cup of tea I cod be arsed. Just changing several of my answers (way less than half) and I get...
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.56
So easy to manipulate without even outright lying. No strongly agrees or strongly disagrees in there. Just switching between Agree/Disagree.
And the USA bias is clear with whole sections on religion/morality and abortion and sex out of marriage, homosexuality, pornography. Totally skews the results!
I'm glad to see that you've decided that the test is completely meaningless, and therefore you won't be bringing up the results any more claiming that they support your position.
It wasn’t me who brought it up was it? Have to scroll back up but don’t think so."
So Morley brought it up as evidence for bias in these threads although I am first to use word “tool”...
"We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits."
So I have questioned validity from the start. Seems like Morley is the one pinning his colours to that particular mast to try and prove a point. |
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"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying.
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right?
Lie is perfect.
We discussed the result at length at the time and you accused me of cheating. Because you can't comprehend you are further left of centre than I am right of centre.
I have always happily admitted I am right of centre.
But when I have said you were left of centre previously you asked me statements you made thay pointed to this I gave you several reasons.
This test for me proved the validity of my claims.
You have for some reason then claimed I re invented history. ( knowing both of our results) and said I was further right than you were left.
This was demonstrably untrue.
I suspect you didn't think I'd go back to the tread and get the results.I did.
Thus I can safely say you lied.
As I know you saw both mine and yours results.
Well I guess that must make you feel all warm and fuzzy calling someone a liar. I say genuine mistake and I have said so.
Not sure what prize you win but enjoy it "
I just dont like people lying on this forum.
I call a lie a lie when people post something they can't substantiate or then post a backing link which doesn't back their claim.
These things are easily checked. You could have checked the thread yourself before posting but decided to claim I re invented history.
It's not about warm and fuzzy. As I said, i treat people how they treat me.
I was accused of re inventing history.
This didn't happen. It was a lie you got called out on it.
|
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"LOL actually over a cup of tea I cod be arsed. Just changing several of my answers (way less than half) and I get...
Economic Left/Right: 6.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 4.56
So easy to manipulate without even outright lying. No strongly agrees or strongly disagrees in there. Just switching between Agree/Disagree.
And the USA bias is clear with whole sections on religion/morality and abortion and sex out of marriage, homosexuality, pornography. Totally skews the results!
I'm glad to see that you've decided that the test is completely meaningless, and therefore you won't be bringing up the results any more claiming that they support your position.
It wasn’t me who brought it up was it? Have to scroll back up but don’t think so.
So Morley brought it up as evidence for bias in these threads although I am first to use word “tool”...
We went over this a few months back I the forum.cwe discovered most people seen as right wing were just right of centre.
Most seen as left wing were quite heavily left of centre.
The evidence would point to this forums views being more heavily left wing and thus their perception kf the centre ground and right wing flawed.
Late to this but Morley that is misleading because the “tool” used to identify where we all fell on the two axes is an American based product that skews the answers for Europeans and Brits regarding where the centre line sits.
So I have questioned validity from the start. Seems like Morley is the one pinning his colours to that particular mast to try and prove a point."
I brought it up on the discussion thay conservatives were far right. As a rebuttal and evidence this forums views are typically skewed left.
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying.
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right?
Lie is perfect.
We discussed the result at length at the time and you accused me of cheating. Because you can't comprehend you are further left of centre than I am right of centre.
I have always happily admitted I am right of centre.
But when I have said you were left of centre previously you asked me statements you made thay pointed to this I gave you several reasons.
This test for me proved the validity of my claims.
You have for some reason then claimed I re invented history. ( knowing both of our results) and said I was further right than you were left.
This was demonstrably untrue.
I suspect you didn't think I'd go back to the tread and get the results.I did.
Thus I can safely say you lied.
As I know you saw both mine and yours results.
Well I guess that must make you feel all warm and fuzzy calling someone a liar. I say genuine mistake and I have said so.
Not sure what prize you win but enjoy it
I just dont like people lying on this forum.
I call a lie a lie when people post something they can't substantiate or then post a backing link which doesn't back their claim.
These things are easily checked. You could have checked the thread yourself before posting but decided to claim I re invented history.
It's not about warm and fuzzy. As I said, i treat people how they treat me.
I was accused of re inventing history.
This didn't happen. It was a lie you got called out on it.
"
Which thread was it in? I admire your focus on detail. I didn’t look back as couldn’t really be that bothered. It was lazy but a genuine mistake. Not a deliberate lie. So I think calling someone a liar is too strong and provocative.
How would you define someone as centrist? Do economic policies trump all others for you? |
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"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying.
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right?
Lie is perfect.
We discussed the result at length at the time and you accused me of cheating. Because you can't comprehend you are further left of centre than I am right of centre.
I have always happily admitted I am right of centre.
But when I have said you were left of centre previously you asked me statements you made thay pointed to this I gave you several reasons.
This test for me proved the validity of my claims.
You have for some reason then claimed I re invented history. ( knowing both of our results) and said I was further right than you were left.
This was demonstrably untrue.
I suspect you didn't think I'd go back to the tread and get the results.I did.
Thus I can safely say you lied.
As I know you saw both mine and yours results.
Well I guess that must make you feel all warm and fuzzy calling someone a liar. I say genuine mistake and I have said so.
Not sure what prize you win but enjoy it
I just dont like people lying on this forum.
I call a lie a lie when people post something they can't substantiate or then post a backing link which doesn't back their claim.
These things are easily checked. You could have checked the thread yourself before posting but decided to claim I re invented history.
It's not about warm and fuzzy. As I said, i treat people how they treat me.
I was accused of re inventing history.
This didn't happen. It was a lie you got called out on it.
Which thread was it in? I admire your focus on detail. I didn’t look back as couldn’t really be that bothered. It was lazy but a genuine mistake. Not a deliberate lie. So I think calling someone a liar is too strong and provocative.
How would you define someone as centrist? Do economic policies trump all others for you?"
No economic and social
As I have always said.
Free market supply vs governemnt intervention. ( this has never wavered and I've said it across plenty of threads)
Sorry butni disagree. We discussed it at length with yous causing me of fudging the test. As you did again in this thread. We went back and forth on about 30 replies.
Indont believe you didn't remember base's on how defensive you got about it.
|
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Errr the scale goes up to 10 so how does a 4.5 on a single dimension “you returned a highs core to the left” nope that was closer to centre than “high left”.
It was more left than I expected (on a single dimension) but certainly could not be classed as “high left”.
Yet you accuse me of lying?
Your statement earlier in this thread was "I was slightly left of centre so a classic centrist!". But you scored 4.5, so that makes you firmly on the left, and a way off from centre.
You then added "You were further right than I was left". But Morley scored 2.4 to the right, meaning that he was most definitely closer to the centre than you were.
In the same paragraph you ask Morley "Why do you reinvent history?". It would seem that you are the one misremembering how things happened.
Your statements were inaccurate, and Morley can be forgiven for saying that you are lying.
I would say lying is too strong and unnecessary. I have just demonstrated how just making half a dozen or so changes to my answers totally changed the result. I maintain this is skewed by being USA focused.
On a 10 point scale where is the line to denote centre vs centre/left vs left vs far left?
However, based purely on those results I was indeed further left than Morley was right. So yeah my statement was wrong.
Which just goes to show that it is too blunt. Perhaps we need to discuss what political characteristics/policies we class as left, centre or right?
Lie is perfect.
We discussed the result at length at the time and you accused me of cheating. Because you can't comprehend you are further left of centre than I am right of centre.
I have always happily admitted I am right of centre.
But when I have said you were left of centre previously you asked me statements you made thay pointed to this I gave you several reasons.
This test for me proved the validity of my claims.
You have for some reason then claimed I re invented history. ( knowing both of our results) and said I was further right than you were left.
This was demonstrably untrue.
I suspect you didn't think I'd go back to the tread and get the results.I did.
Thus I can safely say you lied.
As I know you saw both mine and yours results.
Well I guess that must make you feel all warm and fuzzy calling someone a liar. I say genuine mistake and I have said so.
Not sure what prize you win but enjoy it
I just dont like people lying on this forum.
I call a lie a lie when people post something they can't substantiate or then post a backing link which doesn't back their claim.
These things are easily checked. You could have checked the thread yourself before posting but decided to claim I re invented history.
It's not about warm and fuzzy. As I said, i treat people how they treat me.
I was accused of re inventing history.
This didn't happen. It was a lie you got called out on it.
Which thread was it in? I admire your focus on detail. I didn’t look back as couldn’t really be that bothered. It was lazy but a genuine mistake. Not a deliberate lie. So I think calling someone a liar is too strong and provocative.
How would you define someone as centrist? Do economic policies trump all others for you?
No economic and social
As I have always said.
Free market supply vs governemnt intervention. ( this has never wavered and I've said it across plenty of threads)
Sorry butni disagree. We discussed it at length with yous causing me of fudging the test. As you did again in this thread. We went back and forth on about 30 replies.
Indont believe you didn't remember base's on how defensive you got about it.
"
A few discussions on a swinger website forum really isn’t that important to my life, so sorry but I didn’t really accurately remember.
I think you are further right than your self perception. You think I am further left than my self perception. Maybe we are both correct or both wrong? Who knows? Does it really matter in the grand scheme of things.
Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent! |
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"Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent!"
You think that allowing people to keep more of their earnings than they pay in tax, and the existence of private education are right wing policies? |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent!
You think that allowing people to keep more of their earnings than they pay in tax, and the existence of private education are right wing policies?"
I would say low tax and private education not being penalised as per Labour policy is right of centre yes. Would you not? |
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1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.( this is a hugely left policy so agreed left wing)
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.( this is a hugely left policy agree left wing. Confused as tk how healthcare mightnbe provided without higher taxes as per below)
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.( left of centre policy. Central for me would be tbe stare providing hosuing, food,covering bills, but not providing mucb if any actusly money)
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers. (states intervention would put this left of centre, but I myself am not against this)
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.( ironically detracts from the point that many on here want the oil companies taxed more?did you yourself want this super tax in place I can't remember.) Theybtypically pay more in tax in these other countries than they do in the uk. You would wipe out the point of consumption tax on gambling however.as the company is bases in gib - I see this as quite a centrist policy. You are giving with one hand and taking with the other.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped). Ironically one of disaster budget trusses policies. Is this tax or just ni? When you take into account personally allowance they will always take home more regardless. I will say right of centre. On tnrninfonylu dappled that you want generally lower income taxes.
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed. Private schools aren't right wing policy this is central.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.i would say abolishing IHT would be right wing. Are you for or against trusts? As this accounts for the same issue. Many onnhere have problems with trust funds. I assume you are in favour of this also then?
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.( this i think you need to elaborate further if you dont mind it's quite all encompassing. You wouldnt ba adverts on underground,you wouldn't tax sugar, you wouldn't ban high emission cars, tax cig and alcohol? You would withdraw funding for elective procedures for mental health? E.g transitioning? You would have been against lockdowns as people as the option to stay in our government out? I think minimal government intervention in lives is ideally right wing. But indont think you'd agree no government interventions on all the above you agree with?
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent! |
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"Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent!
You think that allowing people to keep more of their earnings than they pay in tax, and the existence of private education are right wing policies?
I would say low tax and private education not being penalised as per Labour policy is right of centre yes. Would you not?"
I think the problem is.
Left win policies wouldnlike to see the majority of people keep more tax. But that the to 5% pay more tax.
The idea that we blanket reduce tax for all was a truss policy that if I remember you spoke up against?
I have never really seen private schools as right of centre. But central. I would see banning private schools and taxing them out of existence very left wing.
I would say the right wing thing about private schools is them being run as bot for profit.
I do actually think they should fall under a business.
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent!
You think that allowing people to keep more of their earnings than they pay in tax, and the existence of private education are right wing policies?
I would say low tax and private education not being penalised as per Labour policy is right of centre yes. Would you not?
I think the problem is.
Left win policies wouldnlike to see the majority of people keep more tax. But that the to 5% pay more tax.
The idea that we blanket reduce tax for all was a truss policy that if I remember you spoke up against?
I have never really seen private schools as right of centre. But central. I would see banning private schools and taxing them out of existence very left wing.
I would say the right wing thing about private schools is them being run as bot for profit.
I do actually think they should fall under a business.
"
Tax/Benefits - I was against unfunded tax cuts by Truss/Kwartang, not tax cuts per se or in principle. Selfishly I would like to see the 45% IC rate dropped and the personal allowance retained by all. I would get rid of child benefit altogether.
What I would REALLY like too see is simplified taxation with fewer loopholes that enable legal avoidance that generally only those who are rich can use thanks to paying for good accountants. Simplify tax and everyone knows where they stand.
Trust funds, hmmm not sure how I feel but if they are available, I will use them to help pass down max estate and avoid IHT.
Private schools - I would say banning them is left wing. Taking away charitable status/charging VAT is left of centre and just populist. Private schools existing with the status quo is certainly to the right in my book.
As a sweeping generalisation left wing is large govt and highly funded services supported by higher taxation and right wing is small govt less services enabling low taxation. The centre ground would be pragmatism to adopt elements of both, so a sort of medium govt. That is why I see myself as generally a centrist. |
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"Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent!"
"You think that allowing people to keep more of their earnings than they pay in tax, and the existence of private education are right wing policies?"
"I would say low tax and private education not being penalised as per Labour policy is right of centre yes. Would you not?"
Cutting services in order to lower taxes would be right wing. But that's not what you said above. You said that allowing someone to keep more of their earnings than they pay in taxes was right wing. It most definitely isn't. I'd put an effective 50% tax on the left side of centre.
Labour's plan to stop charity status for schools is an attempt to make them pay more tax, which is left wing. It will have the effect of stopping them doing charity work, which is right wing. But that's irrelevant as what you said above was "I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children". The simple existence of private education is not right wing, not even remotely. A centrist policy would see government subsidising the most cost effective private education (so that more people can afford to go there), whilst also providing good quality state education. |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Why I see myself centre-left rather than left is:
1. I think utilities and primary national infrastructure should be state owned. ie where there are (virtual) monopolies and consumer led competition is not practicable.
2. I think the state should supply essential healthcare funded through taxation.
3. I think welfare should provide for the essentials in life but should not pay better than work but should not be demeaning as some people are just unlucky rather than grifters.
4. I think the state should have minimum standards that companies have to abide by to protect consumers.
5. I think companies should be taxed in the countries where their sales generate income. That they should not be able to claim a loss by having to pay IP royalties or management costs to an HQ based in a tax haven so local operations show a loss.
I would say those are left wing policies.
6. I think taxpayers should always keep more of their income than the state (and would like to see the 45% band dropped).
7. I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children and should not be penalised if they go private because they are saving taxpayers from having to fund their child in state ed.
8. I believe IHT should be abolished or at very least the threshold raised to account for property prices and/or make the primary home exempt.
9. I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.
I would say those are right wing policies.
Beyond that I am not overly passionate and in some cases agnostic. Regarding immigration or climate change I want sensible grown up fact based discussions because both appear to be presenting us with an existential threat to our way of life. But I want humanity in that discussion and compassion too. Not sure that is either left or right? Just being decent!
You think that allowing people to keep more of their earnings than they pay in tax, and the existence of private education are right wing policies?
I would say low tax and private education not being penalised as per Labour policy is right of centre yes. Would you not?
Cutting services in order to lower taxes would be right wing. But that's not what you said above. You said that allowing someone to keep more of their earnings than they pay in taxes was right wing. It most definitely isn't. I'd put an effective 50% tax on the left side of centre.
Labour's plan to stop charity status for schools is an attempt to make them pay more tax, which is left wing. It will have the effect of stopping them doing charity work, which is right wing. But that's irrelevant as what you said above was "I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children". The simple existence of private education is not right wing, not even remotely. A centrist policy would see government subsidising the most cost effective private education (so that more people can afford to go there), whilst also providing good quality state education."
I don’t agree. Are you really trying to say right wing doesn’t support charity? I would argue that it right wing to expect charity to provide support rather than the state (in this case at pvt sch via bursaries and scholarships).
I agree on the point re centrist supporting both pvt and state.
On the cutting svcs to allow tax cuts, i think you are being a bit pedantic raising that as it was later clear what I meant.
I want a middle ground. Isn’t that centrist? |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
Morley going to have to come back on some points over time due to being busy but on this one...
"I believe the state has no businesses dictating how we live our lives (beyond standard law and order requirements) and should not be funding elective procedures for “health” related areas.( this i think you need to elaborate further if you dont mind it's quite all encompassing. You wouldnt ba adverts on underground,you wouldn't tax sugar, you wouldn't ban high emission cars, tax cig and alcohol? You would withdraw funding for elective procedures for mental health? E.g transitioning? You would have been against lockdowns as people as the option to stay in our government out? I think minimal government intervention in lives is ideally right wing. But indont think you'd agree no government interventions on all the above you agree with?"
I think it is about pragmatism and seeing the bigger picture. So for example, if Govt trying to nudge and persuade people to adjust their lifestyles to ultimately help reduce the impact on the healthcare service, then that seems worthwhile.
On elective procedures...I would need to better understand the situation and I am sure there would be outliers but generally if something is not life threatening then I don’t think treatment should be provided by the state/taxpayer.
On cars...until the infrastructure is in place and the cost of EVs low enough, then actions like ULEZ appear to me to be a tax on the poor. |
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"Cutting services in order to lower taxes would be right wing. But that's not what you said above. You said that allowing someone to keep more of their earnings than they pay in taxes was right wing. It most definitely isn't. I'd put an effective 50% tax on the left side of centre.
Labour's plan to stop charity status for schools is an attempt to make them pay more tax, which is left wing. It will have the effect of stopping them doing charity work, which is right wing. But that's irrelevant as what you said above was "I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children". The simple existence of private education is not right wing, not even remotely. A centrist policy would see government subsidising the most cost effective private education (so that more people can afford to go there), whilst also providing good quality state education."
"I don’t agree. Are you really trying to say right wing doesn’t support charity?"
No, I was saying that the effect will be that they will stop offering scholarships to poor kids, which means that those kids will lose out. Any policy that sees the poor lose out to the rich is considered right wing.
"I would argue that it right wing to expect charity to provide support rather than the state (in this case at pvt sch via bursaries and scholarships)."
And that's the problem with a simplistic left/right split, it's easy to find a different viewpoint that makes the positions look opposite.
"I want a middle ground. Isn’t that centrist?"
As has been pointed out several times, what you want is to the left of centre. You just like to think that you're a centrist. |
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I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!) |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"Cutting services in order to lower taxes would be right wing. But that's not what you said above. You said that allowing someone to keep more of their earnings than they pay in taxes was right wing. It most definitely isn't. I'd put an effective 50% tax on the left side of centre.
Labour's plan to stop charity status for schools is an attempt to make them pay more tax, which is left wing. It will have the effect of stopping them doing charity work, which is right wing. But that's irrelevant as what you said above was "I believe people have a right to choose how they educate their children". The simple existence of private education is not right wing, not even remotely. A centrist policy would see government subsidising the most cost effective private education (so that more people can afford to go there), whilst also providing good quality state education.
I don’t agree. Are you really trying to say right wing doesn’t support charity?
No, I was saying that the effect will be that they will stop offering scholarships to poor kids, which means that those kids will lose out. Any policy that sees the poor lose out to the rich is considered right wing.
I would argue that it right wing to expect charity to provide support rather than the state (in this case at pvt sch via bursaries and scholarships).
And that's the problem with a simplistic left/right split, it's easy to find a different viewpoint that makes the positions look opposite.
I want a middle ground. Isn’t that centrist?
As has been pointed out several times, what you want is to the left of centre. You just like to think that you're a centrist."
On your last point I remain confused. The only people I can see saying I am not a centrist are those whose views are right of centre. I gave several examples of policies that were a mix of left and right and centre to demonstrate my thinking on a range of topics. I maintain that shows someone who is in the centre ground (somethings to the left and some to the right).
So when you say “what you want is to the left of centre” what are you referring to because that simply doesn’t apply to all the things on that list, only to some! |
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)"
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!! |
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
https://www.taxjustice.uk/tax-takes-1.html
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!!"
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"As has been pointed out several times, what you want is to the left of centre. You just like to think that you're a centrist."
"On your last point I remain confused. The only people I can see saying I am not a centrist are those whose views are right of centre."
There's only a couple of us who have expressed an opinion on your political position. I don't see anyone disputing it but you.
I'm interested to know what makes you think that I am right of centre.
"I gave several examples of policies that were a mix of left and right and centre to demonstrate my thinking on a range of topics. I maintain that shows someone who is in the centre ground (somethings to the left and some to the right).
So when you say “what you want is to the left of centre” what are you referring to because that simply doesn’t apply to all the things on that list, only to some!"
There's no single thing that makes you left of center, it's the totality of your opinions. You're not far from the centre, but you have more of a bias towards the left than you do the right. For instance, earlier you gave a list of left and right policies that you supported. In that list you gave 5 'left' and 4 'right. |
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!!"
I'd like to do so.e reading apru d this if possible please have you got the breakdowns of opaqueness and data sets on taxes? |
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By *irldnCouple 32 weeks ago
Brighton |
"As has been pointed out several times, what you want is to the left of centre. You just like to think that you're a centrist.
On your last point I remain confused. The only people I can see saying I am not a centrist are those whose views are right of centre.
There's only a couple of us who have expressed an opinion on your political position. I don't see anyone disputing it but you.
I'm interested to know what makes you think that I am right of centre.
I gave several examples of policies that were a mix of left and right and centre to demonstrate my thinking on a range of topics. I maintain that shows someone who is in the centre ground (somethings to the left and some to the right).
So when you say “what you want is to the left of centre” what are you referring to because that simply doesn’t apply to all the things on that list, only to some!
There's no single thing that makes you left of center, it's the totality of your opinions. You're not far from the centre, but you have more of a bias towards the left than you do the right. For instance, earlier you gave a list of left and right policies that you supported. In that list you gave 5 'left' and 4 'right."
Ah ok. Yes I would agree I am a centrist who is generally a bit left of centre overall. |
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!!
I'd like to do so.e reading apru d this if possible please have you got the breakdowns of opaqueness and data sets on taxes?"
https://cthi.taxjustice.net/en/
UK is 14th but when you couple with the British territories in top 10 then you are talking about a serious amount of money through tax avoidance |
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!!
I'd like to do so.e reading apru d this if possible please have you got the breakdowns of opaqueness and data sets on taxes?
https://cthi.taxjustice.net/en/
UK is 14th but when you couple with the British territories in top 10 then you are talking about a serious amount of money through tax avoidance "
Hi thanks for this. I read it. But there's very little clarity around the scoring just says they score tax avoidance etc
I was looking for something a bit more win depth e.g a full analysis of the laws of Germany, France uk etc
E.g for example.
The below is just a none netty statement
"Jurisdictions are ranked by their CTHI value (Corporate Tax Haven Index value), which is a measure of how intensely the jurisdiction enables multinational corporations to abuse corporate tax.
A jurisdiction’s CTHI Value is calculated by combining a jurisdiction's Haven Score and Global Scale Weight. A jurisdiction’s Haven Score is a measure of how much scope for corporate tax abuse the jurisdiction’s tax and financial systems allow, where a zero means the jurisdiction’s laws allow no scope for corporate tax abuse and a 100 means they allow unrestrained scope. A jurisdiction’s Global Scale Weight is a measure of how much of the financial activity conducted by multinational corporations around the world is hosted by the jurisdiction. Combining a jurisdiction’s Haven Score and Global Scale Weight gives a picture of how much of the corporate financial activity conducted around the world is put at risk of corporate tax abuse by the jurisdiction."
I get no measure of a law on tax avoidance and how its measured.
E.g for the gambling industry.
You couldn't bet on football and sports online in Germany. Previously slots and lottery were banned. This didnt stop the use of VPNs however.
The uk obviously allows online gambling. Then tightened the loopholes with the point of consumption tax.
I dont quote know of consumption is applied to Germany. If it isn't inbound expect Germany to be behind the uk.
I would also not expect thenuk to be punished negatively for allowing gambling only vs a complete ban that Germany used to have. Bit this may be the case.
Sadly I can't find any actusly detail on the situation above.
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!!
I'd like to do so.e reading apru d this if possible please have you got the breakdowns of opaqueness and data sets on taxes?
https://cthi.taxjustice.net/en/
UK is 14th but when you couple with the British territories in top 10 then you are talking about a serious amount of money through tax avoidance
Hi thanks for this. I read it. But there's very little clarity around the scoring just says they score tax avoidance etc
I was looking for something a bit more win depth e.g a full analysis of the laws of Germany, France uk etc
E.g for example.
The below is just a none netty statement
"Jurisdictions are ranked by their CTHI value (Corporate Tax Haven Index value), which is a measure of how intensely the jurisdiction enables multinational corporations to abuse corporate tax.
A jurisdiction’s CTHI Value is calculated by combining a jurisdiction's Haven Score and Global Scale Weight. A jurisdiction’s Haven Score is a measure of how much scope for corporate tax abuse the jurisdiction’s tax and financial systems allow, where a zero means the jurisdiction’s laws allow no scope for corporate tax abuse and a 100 means they allow unrestrained scope. A jurisdiction’s Global Scale Weight is a measure of how much of the financial activity conducted by multinational corporations around the world is hosted by the jurisdiction. Combining a jurisdiction’s Haven Score and Global Scale Weight gives a picture of how much of the corporate financial activity conducted around the world is put at risk of corporate tax abuse by the jurisdiction."
I get no measure of a law on tax avoidance and how its measured.
E.g for the gambling industry.
You couldn't bet on football and sports online in Germany. Previously slots and lottery were banned. This didnt stop the use of VPNs however.
The uk obviously allows online gambling. Then tightened the loopholes with the point of consumption tax.
I dont quote know of consumption is applied to Germany. If it isn't inbound expect Germany to be behind the uk.
I would also not expect thenuk to be punished negatively for allowing gambling only vs a complete ban that Germany used to have. Bit this may be the case.
Sadly I can't find any actusly detail on the situation above.
"
Best to email Tax network direct to find out.
They do quantify the amount of tax avoidance they have per country so I am sure if you are keen they would tell you.
They also have a vast podcast serious so it is possible that they go into more detail there.
There are literally hundreds of potential fully legal routes for tax avoidance. |
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"I suspect not many people see themselves as extreme wing, and so many will see themselves as centrist. It's a broad label imo.
I want to see support for all. I want to see opportunity for all. On the face of it that can be construed as centrist (maybe) but I believe that it's the distribution of wealth that prevents it. I totally accept I'm left leaning because of this even tho I'd personally gain most from right.
But I also wonder if left and right is more nuanced and somewhat open to interpretation and putting ones own spin on it. And that many centrist views are seen left or right based on if I like the idea and where I view myself on the spectrum.
For example the idea money can buy a leg up for your kids feels right leaning to me. In itself I can't see how it's left or even centrist.
Now Private education may be centrist if investment in state schools was sufficient. That would be a pragmatic place to be (maybe). But supporting these schools while not improving others is right leaning for me.
Now private schools may save tax payers money overall (I've not seen the numbers)... but they damage education by sucking out the best teachers. Again, it's the effect that's being allowed by policy here.
And something doesn't feel right if it is true that scholarships will go if charity status goes. If true, fund the scholarships directly. But offering a few poor kids a way out via tax money doesn't feel hugely left imo even if this is the case.
But that's all details. My real point is trying to work out what tax relief does on if public schools accept a few poor kids feels a distraction from real educational change. And I'd argue that this is more damaging to the majority at the lower end, than the few who will get a good education regardless of government policy. So if you are discussing this, not the wider picture you are likely more right leaning.
It feels similar with other areas. We are discussing the talking points that probably won't change the lot for the majority. And ignoring the issues that matter. You may not be strongly right wing or feel you are right wing. But I struggle to see the balance at times that makes one a centrist when you we are playing at the edges.
(This is all a bit poorly expressed I know. I can't decide whether to use the examples raised or just rant in general !!)
The first thing we have to realise that is that we have historically (not a left of right thing) never raised enough tax compared to other countries that of similar size to invest in the country.
The problem is not corporation it’s tax avoidance schemes- we are amongst the best in world at it and it urgently needs sorting out.
Tax harmonisation and reducing corporate opaqueness has occurred under the EU( and was definitely a factor with some of the well
Of voting for Brexit) but there is a coming UN initiative for International tax harmonisation unless…….. oh wait where is this urge to leave in convention of rights coming from( especially when most lawyers acknowledge it won’t have any effect on Uk immigration law)
Bottom line- it’s all about the money !!!!
I'd like to do so.e reading apru d this if possible please have you got the breakdowns of opaqueness and data sets on taxes?
https://cthi.taxjustice.net/en/
UK is 14th but when you couple with the British territories in top 10 then you are talking about a serious amount of money through tax avoidance
Hi thanks for this. I read it. But there's very little clarity around the scoring just says they score tax avoidance etc
I was looking for something a bit more win depth e.g a full analysis of the laws of Germany, France uk etc
E.g for example.
The below is just a none netty statement
"Jurisdictions are ranked by their CTHI value (Corporate Tax Haven Index value), which is a measure of how intensely the jurisdiction enables multinational corporations to abuse corporate tax.
A jurisdiction’s CTHI Value is calculated by combining a jurisdiction's Haven Score and Global Scale Weight. A jurisdiction’s Haven Score is a measure of how much scope for corporate tax abuse the jurisdiction’s tax and financial systems allow, where a zero means the jurisdiction’s laws allow no scope for corporate tax abuse and a 100 means they allow unrestrained scope. A jurisdiction’s Global Scale Weight is a measure of how much of the financial activity conducted by multinational corporations around the world is hosted by the jurisdiction. Combining a jurisdiction’s Haven Score and Global Scale Weight gives a picture of how much of the corporate financial activity conducted around the world is put at risk of corporate tax abuse by the jurisdiction."
I get no measure of a law on tax avoidance and how its measured.
E.g for the gambling industry.
You couldn't bet on football and sports online in Germany. Previously slots and lottery were banned. This didnt stop the use of VPNs however.
The uk obviously allows online gambling. Then tightened the loopholes with the point of consumption tax.
I dont quote know of consumption is applied to Germany. If it isn't inbound expect Germany to be behind the uk.
I would also not expect thenuk to be punished negatively for allowing gambling only vs a complete ban that Germany used to have. Bit this may be the case.
Sadly I can't find any actusly detail on the situation above.
Best to email Tax network direct to find out.
They do quantify the amount of tax avoidance they have per country so I am sure if you are keen they would tell you.
They also have a vast podcast serious so it is possible that they go into more detail there.
There are literally hundreds of potential fully legal routes for tax avoidance."
Emailed.
No answer as of yet. |
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or View forums list | |
" While being anti-immigrant is seen as being right wing, although it has absolutely nothing to do with right wing economic or social views.
"
Indeed - allowing the free movement of the elements that go to make up a market (goods, services, capital and labour) without government interference is something right wingers used to wholeheartedly support.
And at the same time they supported it, it was only communist countries which had walls built around themselves.
If you tell right wingers that these days, and that Maggie championed free movement and the opening up of communist countries, you start seeing veins bulge in their foreheads |
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He’s a gurning idiot, who along with other self serving toe tags led us to be a backward nation of xenaphobes and thick bigots.
He hasn’t an ethical bone in his body and him looking for a new platform to spout his drivel from is no surprise - it’s just sport to him, as long as his overseas assets are safe.
I couldn’t care less what the current conservative government do, given they are the most incompetent and detestable bunch of politicians ever to hold power. And I care even less what that sweaty faced ‘man of the people’ does as I hope he fades into political obscurity regardless.
That some seemingly rational people think he is a good politician or leader just shows how one dimensional and ignorant we have all become during this mess of an administration.
So, not a fan.
(And I have been a Tory voter in the past but the last decade has seen me jump to the left quicker than the time warp. Just want out politicians to be clever, intelligent and businesslike and not oily cartoon twats like farage.)
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"He’s a gurning idiot, who along with other self serving toe tags led us to be a backward nation of xenaphobes and thick bigots.
He hasn’t an ethical bone in his body and him looking for a new platform to spout his drivel from is no surprise - it’s just sport to him, as long as his overseas assets are safe.
I couldn’t care less what the current conservative government do, given they are the most incompetent and detestable bunch of politicians ever to hold power. And I care even less what that sweaty faced ‘man of the people’ does as I hope he fades into political obscurity regardless.
That some seemingly rational people think he is a good politician or leader just shows how one dimensional and ignorant we have all become during this mess of an administration.
So, not a fan.
(And I have been a Tory voter in the past but the last decade has seen me jump to the left quicker than the time warp. Just want out politicians to be clever, intelligent and businesslike and not oily cartoon twats like farage.)
"
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