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Net migration hits 745,000
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By *irldn OP Couple 24 weeks ago
Brighton |
The Times...
The Office for National Statistics revised its estimate for immigration figures from 606,000 to 745,000 — a new record high. It means that 139,000 more people than previously thought arrived in Britain in the year to December 2022.
Net migration to June 2023 hit 672,000, up from 607,000 compared to the previous 12 months.
ONS statisticians said that the figures indicated a slowing of immigration and increasing emigration but it was too early to say if it represented a new downward trend.
The ONS said the significant revision of last year’s figures was due to “unexpected patterns” in the behaviour of migrants.
Recent record levels of net migration have been driven by foreign students, work visas and humanitarian visas issued to Ukrainians and Hongkongers, but there has also been a trend of international students staying on in the UK after their courses. |
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ONS statisticians said that the figures indicated a slowing of immigration and increasing emigration but it was too early to say if it represented a new downward trend.
"
I don't understand this. How does it imply slowing immigration and increasing emigration if net immigration went up last year? |
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ONS statisticians said that the figures indicated a slowing of immigration and increasing emigration but it was too early to say if it represented a new downward trend.
I don't understand this. How does it imply slowing immigration and increasing emigration if net immigration went up last year?"
slowing just means it's increasing... Just not as fast.
After all, you still go fowards, even if you are slowing from traffic lights. |
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"
ONS statisticians said that the figures indicated a slowing of immigration and increasing emigration but it was too early to say if it represented a new downward trend.
I don't understand this. How does it imply slowing immigration and increasing emigration if net immigration went up last year?slowing just means it's increasing... Just not as fast.
After all, you still go fowards, even if you are slowing from traffic lights. "
Ah got it  |
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"No need to worry. Everything will be fine if we close our eyes and stick our fingers in our ears.
Well that's what we've done for the past 10 years so why change now?"
Works though.
Look at those foriegners causing all your problems. Vote Conservative for more of the same. |
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Predominantly students by the looks of things.
From 2019 this has almost tripled.
As long as the government stays on top of their visas wnd they leave withing thr ( I think 2 year limit post study) I see no problem with it. Or that of they find a well paid job here and contribute. Again I've no problem.
The work visas seem to address NHS issues. Such as nursing etc.
In lgi I knkw they have increased the philipino nurses as well as thenuk government sogning a memorandum to take on 30k nurses from nigeria a while back.
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"Predominantly students by the looks of things.
From 2019 this has almost tripled.
As long as the government stays on top of their visas wnd they leave withing thr ( I think 2 year limit post study) I see no problem with it. Or that of they find a well paid job here and contribute. Again I've no problem.
The work visas seem to address NHS issues. Such as nursing etc.
In lgi I knkw they have increased the philipino nurses as well as thenuk government sogning a memorandum to take on 30k nurses from nigeria a while back.
"
presumably exiting students cling as migration. So in a steady state position the net migration would be zero. Do we know the net student migration? |
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"Predominantly students by the looks of things.
From 2019 this has almost tripled.
As long as the government stays on top of their visas wnd they leave withing thr ( I think 2 year limit post study) I see no problem with it. Or that of they find a well paid job here and contribute. Again I've no problem.
The work visas seem to address NHS issues. Such as nursing etc.
In lgi I knkw they have increased the philipino nurses as well as thenuk government sogning a memorandum to take on 30k nurses from nigeria a while back.
presumably exiting students cling as migration. So in a steady state position the net migration would be zero. Do we know the net student migration?"
We may do. But it would events if they keep increasing the overseas students. Those arriving have gone up significantly since 2019.
If I remember you get to stay 2 years after graduating in many cases.
And it would depend on whether you then got permanent residency. |
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"No need to worry. Everything will be fine if we close our eyes and stick our fingers in our ears.
Well that's what we've done for the past 10 years so why change now?
Works though.
Look at those foriegners causing all your problems. Vote Conservative for more of the same. "
What I get from that is, if you are sympathetic to foreigners vote blue and if you want restrictions on foreigners vote a different colour.  |
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"Predominantly students by the looks of things.
From 2019 this has almost tripled.
As long as the government stays on top of their visas wnd they leave withing thr ( I think 2 year limit post study) I see no problem with it. Or that of they find a well paid job here and contribute. Again I've no problem.
The work visas seem to address NHS issues. Such as nursing etc.
In lgi I knkw they have increased the philipino nurses as well as thenuk government sogning a memorandum to take on 30k nurses from nigeria a while back.
presumably exiting students cling as migration. So in a steady state position the net migration would be zero. Do we know the net student migration?
We may do. But it would events if they keep increasing the overseas students. Those arriving have gone up significantly since 2019.
If I remember you get to stay 2 years after graduating in many cases.
And it would depend on whether you then got permanent residency."
agreed that the more we take on year per year thay this would happen.
Looks like more students are staying past their study. And more students are bringing dependants.
And it's work visas which have seen a larger increase v last year. Offset my reduced net humanitarian |
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By (user no longer on site) 24 weeks ago
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“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero? |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?"
Unless you're xenophobic of course. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?"
it's a simplistic measure and so can be miss used. ONS gives more detail. Of course detail is less useful for a tictoc/X world. |
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By (user no longer on site) 24 weeks ago
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course."
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm."
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia? |
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By (user no longer on site) 24 weeks ago
|
"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?"
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK. |
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"No need to worry. Everything will be fine if we close our eyes and stick our fingers in our ears.
Well that's what we've done for the past 10 years so why change now?
Works though.
Look at those foriegners causing all your problems. Vote Conservative for more of the same.
What I get from that is, if you are sympathetic to foreigners vote blue and if you want restrictions on foreigners vote a different colour. "
Agreed |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK."
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in? |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?"
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again |
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By (user no longer on site) 24 weeks ago
|
"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?"
I am posing a theoretical question. If every British person leaves and is replaced with an equal number of Saudis, is the UK the same country?
My view is that it would be different. Your view is that it would be the same, as the UK is really just a bit of real estate and the people in it don’t matter.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
I am posing a theoretical question. If every British person leaves and is replaced with an equal number of Saudis, is the UK the same country?"
Yes.
"
My view is that it would be different. Your view is that it would be the same, as the UK is really just a bit of real estate and the people in it don’t matter.
"
Nope. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again"
I asked a question for clarification. No need to be angry. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again
I asked a question for clarification. No need to be angry. "
No one is angry.
You just don't seem to have read the reply correctly.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again
I asked a question for clarification. No need to be angry.
No one is angry.
You just don't seem to have read the reply correctly.
"
The reply was unrelated to the discussion. So I asked for some clarification. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again
I asked a question for clarification. No need to be angry.
No one is angry.
You just don't seem to have read the reply correctly.
The reply was unrelated to the discussion. So I asked for some clarification."
It wasn't
It followed on from previous questions directly. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
I am posing a theoretical question. If every British person leaves and is replaced with an equal number of Saudis, is the UK the same country?
My view is that it would be different. Your view is that it would be the same, as the UK is really just a bit of real estate and the people in it don’t matter.
"
It's a good point. Our country is not a Travelodge to spend a night or two. Most of us have an investment in our country that goes back generations. Our forebears fought in WW1 and WW2 to win our freedoms. Suffragettes died to secure women's rights. So it goes on. Immigrants who arrived last week cannot be expected to have the same investment, nor necessarily any attachment to our culture and values. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again
I asked a question for clarification. No need to be angry.
No one is angry.
You just don't seem to have read the reply correctly.
The reply was unrelated to the discussion. So I asked for some clarification.
It wasn't
It followed on from previous questions directly."
It was.
It didn't follow on from the discussion. |
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"“Net immigration” always strikes me as a slightly (and obviously deliberately) misleading measure.
If 1 million British people leave and are replaced by 1 million Saudis is there no problem because net immigration is zero?
Unless you're xenophobic of course.
Let us know how you get on in Saudi. I’m sure you’ll go down a storm.
Am I one of the 1 million British people leaving, and are we all going to Saudi Arabia?
It would be an interesting experiment for you. After all it’s no different from the UK.
So now it's just me out and 1 million Saudi's coming in?
Hes never said anything to indicate that.
Read again
I asked a question for clarification. No need to be angry.
No one is angry.
You just don't seem to have read the reply correctly.
The reply was unrelated to the discussion. So I asked for some clarification.
It wasn't
It followed on from previous questions directly.
It was.
It didn't follow on from the discussion."
It did.
As I said.
Try re reading
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We can no longer afford to be passive about mass immigration. The more liberal line that demographics don't matter so long as our liberal democracy remains intact is a fantasy. There is an inherent absorptive capacity limit. A functioning society is contingent on a shared sense of endeavour - common customs, values and history. Without safeguards we soon become a low trust morass of competing tribal agendas.
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"
We can no longer afford to be passive about mass immigration. The more liberal line that demographics don't matter so long as our liberal democracy remains intact is a fantasy. There is an inherent absorptive capacity limit. A functioning society is contingent on a shared sense of endeavour - common customs, values and history. Without safeguards we soon become a low trust morass of competing tribal agendas.
"
what is that limit tho ?
Wind back a few centuries and people would have said London was full. Chlorea was rife. Seage on the Thames.
Yet the population was 1.5m
Why is it full now ? Is there a reason... Or do we simply lack the imagination to make it so?
Because strictly speaking, without any technology, the natural capacity of the UK is a few thousand or so. Even if we allow farming as a thing.
Mankinda ingenuity has outpaced nature to date. Why now does it stop ?
Tbh, this isn't about immigration per se but global population expansion. But I think it's a useful thing to ponder.
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By *ip2Man 23 weeks ago
Near Maidenhead |
Today, at the anti-semitism march, I met an Iran-born woman in her sixties who moved to London in 1986 because of the Iranian revolution.
A few months ago there were posters asking for care home staff in Slough. The posters were at the 3 Tuns crossroads in Slough.
In Aylesbury, High Wycombe and Maidenhead, care homes have had banners outside appealing for staff.
Meanwhile, the government still won't give EU citizens in the UK with "settled status" (that shamefully, they were made to apply for, breaking promises they'd see "no change") any physical proof of their status.
The government won't even give them a card, like Windsrush get.
Those who came to the UK before the UK joined the EEC and Euratom in 1973 also had to apply under Windsrush and get photographed and fingerprinted "like a criminal", as a German born woman who married a Brit in the 60s told me. |
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