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Khan to build one million homes on London green belt
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London’s green belt is to be developed for more housing.
The mayor of London is to make an announcement today and is expected to say the scale of the housing challenge could need one million new homes to be built in the capital over the next decade.
The announcement will say city hall will support the strategic release of low-quality or inaccessible green belt land near transport links in order to provide hundreds of thousands of new affordable homes.
Approximately 22% of Greater London is designated as Green Belt, around 35 hectares ( 86,000 acres). Less trees and more concrete.
Sounds like a lot of homes on not a lot of green belt?
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It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years. |
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"It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years."
Plenty of cheap labour from India soon. |
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"It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years."
"Plenty of cheap labour from India soon."
But who's going to train them? Because of our climate, British houses are built in a very different way to most other countries. Those cheap Indian workers will need either a lot of training, or a lot of supervision. |
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They just pluck numbers out of the air to try and grab some headlines. So much for Khan saving the planet.
I thought Rayner was building 1.5 million homes before 2029. Is this an extra million?
Total fantasy. |
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"It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years.
Plenty of cheap labour from India soon.
But who's going to train them? Because of our climate, British houses are built in a very different way to most other countries. Those cheap Indian workers will need either a lot of training, or a lot of supervision."
No just be told to crack on with no supervision and then everyone will wonder why they are falling down in 5 years |
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"It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years."
"Plenty of cheap labour from India soon."
"But who's going to train them? Because of our climate, British houses are built in a very different way to most other countries. Those cheap Indian workers will need either a lot of training, or a lot of supervision."
"No just be told to crack on with no supervision and then everyone will wonder why they are falling down in 5 years"
They wouldn't get that far. The building inspectors will refuse to sign them off if the regulations haven't been followed to the letter. Kahn might get a million homes built with cheap imported labour, but no one would be allowed to live in any of them. |
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"It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years.
Plenty of cheap labour from India soon.
But who's going to train them? Because of our climate, British houses are built in a very different way to most other countries. Those cheap Indian workers will need either a lot of training, or a lot of supervision.
No just be told to crack on with no supervision and then everyone will wonder why they are falling down in 5 years
They wouldn't get that far. The building inspectors will refuse to sign them off if the regulations haven't been followed to the letter. Kahn might get a million homes built with cheap imported labour, but no one would be allowed to live in any of them."
Building inspectors and site agents are too busy most of the time to look properly
I have seen some really shocking things on new buildings last few years. And YouTube shows even more.
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"They wouldn't get that far. The building inspectors will refuse to sign them off if the regulations haven't been followed to the letter. Kahn might get a million homes built with cheap imported labour, but no one would be allowed to live in any of them."
with so many accredited schemes you'd be lucky to see building control officers on any building site these days |
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"So don't drive an older diesel vehicle but tarmac over the countryside?
More double standards and more hypocrisy "
Both are more money for him to spend on whatever wacky project he fancies.
A million extra people a year, many of them single men, so we need either half a million new homes a year or less people. It’s not rocket science.
I’d say the whole of Western Europe will be one big city within a couple of hundred years. Fuck knows what we’ll be eating. Each other probably |
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I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem. |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem."
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them"
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why? |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?"
I would hazard a guess and say the power of the big construction companies in relation to the amount of profit perhaps they do make from 'standard' house building and whatever the margin is from modular..
There was a report two maybe three years ago into the amount of money that the industry was donating to the Tory party whilst the were in government was a fifth of all their donations..
Not aware if the labour party has the same relationship but if that's where power and influence is then donors soon try to buy in.. |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem."
"You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them"
"That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?"
Lots of houses were built in that way in the 1950s, to replace housing lost during the war. A lot of them are still about, and very cheap to buy if you have cash. That's because insurance companies won't insure them if they are "of non-standard construction". No insurance means that you also can't get a mortgage on them, so it's cash buyers only.
You can get non-standard building methods approved if you spend a lot of money on testing and certification, like the Huf Haus company has. But it's complicated and expensive, so it only gets done for 'bespoke' properties, not social housing. |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?
Lots of houses were built in that way in the 1950s, to replace housing lost during the war. A lot of them are still about, and very cheap to buy if you have cash. That's because insurance companies won't insure them if they are "of non-standard construction". No insurance means that you also can't get a mortgage on them, so it's cash buyers only.
You can get non-standard building methods approved if you spend a lot of money on testing and certification, like the Huf Haus company has. But it's complicated and expensive, so it only gets done for 'bespoke' properties, not social housing."
This is kind of my point - at some point it will become cost effective for someone to create modern, quality modular housing that can be deployed cheaply and at scale. It then becomes the “standard” and the market moves on. |
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"It's nonsense. Even if the space were available and no one objected, there's no way that a million homes can be built in just 10 years. We don't have the manpower. Especially since the Labour government will be employing every builder in the country in an attempt to reach their 1.5m new homes across the UK in the next 4 years.
Plenty of cheap labour from India soon.
But who's going to train them? Because of our climate, British houses are built in a very different way to most other countries. Those cheap Indian workers will need either a lot of training, or a lot of supervision.
No just be told to crack on with no supervision and then everyone will wonder why they are falling down in 5 years
They wouldn't get that far. The building inspectors will refuse to sign them off if the regulations haven't been followed to the letter. Kahn might get a million homes built with cheap imported labour, but no one would be allowed to live in any of them.
Building inspectors and site agents are too busy most of the time to look properly
I have seen some really shocking things on new buildings last few years. And YouTube shows even more.
"
Indeed. I'm in one. Insurance won't pay out because the build was so terrible originally. The builders have gone into liquidation so no one is accountable. It's owner's like myself who are fixing legacy issues costing a fortune  |
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By *otMe66Man 4 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?
Lots of houses were built in that way in the 1950s, to replace housing lost during the war. A lot of them are still about, and very cheap to buy if you have cash. That's because insurance companies won't insure them if they are "of non-standard construction". No insurance means that you also can't get a mortgage on them, so it's cash buyers only.
You can get non-standard building methods approved if you spend a lot of money on testing and certification, like the Huf Haus company has. But it's complicated and expensive, so it only gets done for 'bespoke' properties, not social housing.
This is kind of my point - at some point it will become cost effective for someone to create modern, quality modular housing that can be deployed cheaply and at scale. It then becomes the “standard” and the market moves on."
McDonalds use pre-fabricated sections that link together, they go up very quickly and it removes a lot of reliance on localised labour that are unknowns in terms of quality, which keeps the build standardised.
My thoughts, from an untrained mind and eye in construction... I would imagine the challenge for residential property using pre-fabricated modules would be in extensions and modernisation. If you wanted to change the windows or doors, that might throw up all kinds of issues in terms of sizes, spec and building integrity after any alteration. Also, a company that made modules going out of business, would that create issues down the line for repairs? We are useless at standardising anything in this country...
I would imagine apartments would be a great candidate for pre-fabricated modules, as they are less likely to be altered like a house.
The idea makes sense, if we set out a standard that all pre-fabricated modules must follow, is my thinking. |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?
Lots of houses were built in that way in the 1950s, to replace housing lost during the war. A lot of them are still about, and very cheap to buy if you have cash. That's because insurance companies won't insure them if they are "of non-standard construction". No insurance means that you also can't get a mortgage on them, so it's cash buyers only.
You can get non-standard building methods approved if you spend a lot of money on testing and certification, like the Huf Haus company has. But it's complicated and expensive, so it only gets done for 'bespoke' properties, not social housing.
This is kind of my point - at some point it will become cost effective for someone to create modern, quality modular housing that can be deployed cheaply and at scale. It then becomes the “standard” and the market moves on.
McDonalds use pre-fabricated sections that link together, they go up very quickly and it removes a lot of reliance on localised labour that are unknowns in terms of quality, which keeps the build standardised.
My thoughts, from an untrained mind and eye in construction... I would imagine the challenge for residential property using pre-fabricated modules would be in extensions and modernisation. If you wanted to change the windows or doors, that might throw up all kinds of issues in terms of sizes, spec and building integrity after any alteration. Also, a company that made modules going out of business, would that create issues down the line for repairs? We are useless at standardising anything in this country...
I would imagine apartments would be a great candidate for pre-fabricated modules, as they are less likely to be altered like a house.
The idea makes sense, if we set out a standard that all pre-fabricated modules must follow, is my thinking."
This can and has been done
An apartment block in Croydon used all prefabricated sections that made it the tallest constructed in this way. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?
Lots of houses were built in that way in the 1950s, to replace housing lost during the war. A lot of them are still about, and very cheap to buy if you have cash. That's because insurance companies won't insure them if they are "of non-standard construction". No insurance means that you also can't get a mortgage on them, so it's cash buyers only.
You can get non-standard building methods approved if you spend a lot of money on testing and certification, like the Huf Haus company has. But it's complicated and expensive, so it only gets done for 'bespoke' properties, not social housing.
This is kind of my point - at some point it will become cost effective for someone to create modern, quality modular housing that can be deployed cheaply and at scale. It then becomes the “standard” and the market moves on.
McDonalds use pre-fabricated sections that link together, they go up very quickly and it removes a lot of reliance on localised labour that are unknowns in terms of quality, which keeps the build standardised.
My thoughts, from an untrained mind and eye in construction... I would imagine the challenge for residential property using pre-fabricated modules would be in extensions and modernisation. If you wanted to change the windows or doors, that might throw up all kinds of issues in terms of sizes, spec and building integrity after any alteration. Also, a company that made modules going out of business, would that create issues down the line for repairs? We are useless at standardising anything in this country...
I would imagine apartments would be a great candidate for pre-fabricated modules, as they are less likely to be altered like a house.
The idea makes sense, if we set out a standard that all pre-fabricated modules must follow, is my thinking.
This can and has been done
An apartment block in Croydon used all prefabricated sections that made it the tallest constructed in this way. "
I can see it working, especially on apartments that don't change configuration often.
Houses and peoples appetites to build extensions and change things, makes me feel as though that could be a problem. I could be way out of sync with that thinking, it is all gut feel and nothing more  |
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People This skills shortage is a direct consequence of Thatcherism and the degradation of the building trades by multiple Tory governments.
Removal of proper decent apprenticeships by encouraging people to go self employed resulting in people NOT taking on trainees and apprentices.
The introduction of agency workers and greedy companies unwilling to pay trade wages and employing unqualified multi traders to do the job of four or five trades badly.
Also the push for people to go to university and get massively in debt and overqualified, youngsters who are unwilling to do manual work all want to be tech geniuses or influencers.
We have a skill's shortage that has been on the decline since the early 80's.
Yep Thatchers Britan at work brilliantly. Everyone should work for themselves and own their own homes except there's no-one to build them and the ones who were willing have all buggered off back to Poland. |
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"People This skills shortage is a direct consequence of Thatcherism and the degradation of the building trades by multiple Tory governments.
Removal of proper decent apprenticeships by encouraging people to go self employed resulting in people NOT taking on trainees and apprentices.
The introduction of agency workers and greedy companies unwilling to pay trade wages and employing unqualified multi traders to do the job of four or five trades badly.
Also the push for people to go to university and get massively in debt and overqualified, youngsters who are unwilling to do manual work all want to be tech geniuses or influencers.
We have a skill's shortage that has been on the decline since the early 80's.
Yep Thatchers Britan at work brilliantly. Everyone should work for themselves and own their own homes except there's no-one to build them and the ones who were willing have all buggered off back to Poland."
So Yay for the Tories  |
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"I am not a house builder (yet) but it seems to me that uk house construction is stuck in the past - it appears to need a lot of expensive (and non existent) manual labour to build poor quality masonry based housing that the customer doesn’t really like. It clearly isn’t working.
If I was going to do this at scale then I would create a standardised set of pre built housing components that could be stood up quicker, faster and cheaper with better build quality and insulation.
Someone is going to make a modern prefab setup that actually works and then we might make a dent in the housing problem.
You can already buy a SIPs house if you are building it yourself.But for some reason large builders are not using them
That’s the thing I don’t understand. It can clearly be done - office and commercial building often uses modular components. Sweden has a very high percentage of modular housing. In almost any other industry modular components are used for cost effective scaling yet standard housing is almost all bespoke build. Why?
Lots of houses were built in that way in the 1950s, to replace housing lost during the war. A lot of them are still about, and very cheap to buy if you have cash. That's because insurance companies won't insure them if they are "of non-standard construction". No insurance means that you also can't get a mortgage on them, so it's cash buyers only.
You can get non-standard building methods approved if you spend a lot of money on testing and certification, like the Huf Haus company has. But it's complicated and expensive, so it only gets done for 'bespoke' properties, not social housing.
This is kind of my point - at some point it will become cost effective for someone to create modern, quality modular housing that can be deployed cheaply and at scale. It then becomes the “standard” and the market moves on.
McDonalds use pre-fabricated sections that link together, they go up very quickly and it removes a lot of reliance on localised labour that are unknowns in terms of quality, which keeps the build standardised.
My thoughts, from an untrained mind and eye in construction... I would imagine the challenge for residential property using pre-fabricated modules would be in extensions and modernisation. If you wanted to change the windows or doors, that might throw up all kinds of issues in terms of sizes, spec and building integrity after any alteration. Also, a company that made modules going out of business, would that create issues down the line for repairs? We are useless at standardising anything in this country...
I would imagine apartments would be a great candidate for pre-fabricated modules, as they are less likely to be altered like a house.
The idea makes sense, if we set out a standard that all pre-fabricated modules must follow, is my thinking.
This can and has been done
An apartment block in Croydon used all prefabricated sections that made it the tallest constructed in this way.
I can see it working, especially on apartments that don't change configuration often.
Houses and peoples appetites to build extensions and change things, makes me feel as though that could be a problem. I could be way out of sync with that thinking, it is all gut feel and nothing more "
All for off site modular designs. There are several excellent examples including the Tide which is 50 storeys.
The 1980’s had over 250,000 flats created from townhouse conversions in London alone. Destruction to the building fabric to enable conversions is substantial and even more so now with acoustic and fire building regulations to comply with. On the other side those buildings would be unaffordable to buy to rent as single dwellings. |
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"People This skills shortage is a direct consequence of Thatcherism and the degradation of the building trades by multiple Tory governments.
Removal of proper decent apprenticeships by encouraging people to go self employed resulting in people NOT taking on trainees and apprentices.
The introduction of agency workers and greedy companies unwilling to pay trade wages and employing unqualified multi traders to do the job of four or five trades badly.
Also the push for people to go to university and get massively in debt and overqualified, youngsters who are unwilling to do manual work all want to be tech geniuses or influencers.
We have a skill's shortage that has been on the decline since the early 80's.
Yep Thatchers Britan at work brilliantly. Everyone should work for themselves and own their own homes except there's no-one to build them and the ones who were willing have all buggered off back to Poland."
Farming and manufacturing as well |
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"
Houses and peoples appetites to build extensions and change things, makes me feel as though that could be a problem. I could be way out of sync with that thinking, it is all gut feel and nothing more "
I don’t see why you can’t design for extension into the modular design from the start - if it plugs together then it should be “unpluggable” and reconfigurable. I don’t think people have started with extendability in mind when they build these things but it seems possible. |
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"
Houses and peoples appetites to build extensions and change things, makes me feel as though that could be a problem. I could be way out of sync with that thinking, it is all gut feel and nothing more
I don’t see why you can’t design for extension into the modular design from the start - if it plugs together then it should be “unpluggable” and reconfigurable. I don’t think people have started with extendability in mind when they build these things but it seems possible."
That requires double design. I don’t think we’ve got that far ahead, and planning does not currently encompass future reuse and adaptation. It should do to enable changes for the future social and economic changes that will drive housing affordability. For example 69% of uk dwellings are houses, the highest proportion in Europe and a land grab, and becoming increasingly unaffordable. |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"People This skills shortage is a direct consequence of Thatcherism and the degradation of the building trades by multiple Tory governments.
Removal of proper decent apprenticeships by encouraging people to go self employed resulting in people NOT taking on trainees and apprentices.
The introduction of agency workers and greedy companies unwilling to pay trade wages and employing unqualified multi traders to do the job of four or five trades badly.
Also the push for people to go to university and get massively in debt and overqualified, youngsters who are unwilling to do manual work all want to be tech geniuses or influencers.
We have a skill's shortage that has been on the decline since the early 80's.
Yep Thatchers Britan at work brilliantly. Everyone should work for themselves and own their own homes except there's no-one to build them and the ones who were willing have all buggered off back to Poland."
Thatcher inherited a mess, left behind by the weakest government we have had. It was inevitable that many public sectors would need to go privatising due to the lack of investment and union control. A decline in apprenticeships as trades people became self employed was inevitable considering how the landscape had altered, but we can't ignore the fact that when Thatcher came into power, it didn't remove the existing skills or talent. Blair, came along and pushed for 50% of school leavers to enter university, as you point out that changed the the younger generations focus in terms of careers.
It isn't one government or person that has created the outcomes we have today. |
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