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Still the Silence continues
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"You should be ashamed of yourself for this comment. The blocking of aid into Gaza is well-documented by numerous agencies. So - all these agencies are wrong, and you’re right?" Aid is being blocked, yes. Hamas was stealing aid - and potentially still is However, there's still enough food, for now. Reporting is weighted and biased. Arabs started this; they attacked Jews first - during the 'Zionist period', as far back as 1886 (Petah Tikva) Arabs could end this by releasing the hostages. In my opinion, population transfer out of Gaza and annexation of the territory is the only feasible solution remaining. Not ashamed. | |||
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"There will be more silence once they completely level Gaza " Actually, there is more silence on the (far greater) starvation in Yemen. Gaza gets more airtime and protest than any other conflict in recent times (including Russia/Ukraine). The civil war in Yemen has put it on 126/127 on the global hunger index ( https://www.globalhungerindex.org/pdf/en/2024/Yemen.pdf ). Even more silent (and bigger) is the 150,000 killed in Sudan since 2023, plus the famine there ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024%E2%80%93present) ) If you're going to use terms like "more silence", there are much bigger issues with far more silence. When every major news outlet had had an article on this topic on a weekly (or daily) basis... When even a swinging website has one thread per week started on it... That is not "more silence". Live for those in Gaza is terrible; often those suffering the most have done absolutely nothing to deserve it. But there is no silence on this matter and it's disingenuous to declare that there is, particularly when far wider-reaching (in terms of scale) tragedies attract barely any Western media attention. | |||
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"There will be more silence once they completely level Gaza Actually, there is more silence on the (far greater) starvation in Yemen. Gaza gets more airtime and protest than any other conflict in recent times (including Russia/Ukraine). The civil war in Yemen has put it on 126/127 on the global hunger index ( https://www.globalhungerindex.org/pdf/en/2024/Yemen.pdf ). Even more silent (and bigger) is the 150,000 killed in Sudan since 2023, plus the famine there ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024%E2%80%93present) ) If you're going to use terms like "more silence", there are much bigger issues with far more silence. When every major news outlet had had an article on this topic on a weekly (or daily) basis... When even a swinging website has one thread per week started on it... That is not "more silence". Live for those in Gaza is terrible; often those suffering the most have done absolutely nothing to deserve it. But there is no silence on this matter and it's disingenuous to declare that there is, particularly when far wider-reaching (in terms of scale) tragedies attract barely any Western media attention." The people of Gaza have a sea to fish out of, but Hamas tax the fish caught including other food groups. Hamas whip their own backs and expect others to care and treat their whipped backs. | |||
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"They could always surrender and release the hostages. Bit of a novel idea, but y'know..." Like they did yesterday… and the response.. they bombed a hospital!!!! If the US and the Houthis come up with an agreement where there is a ceasefire, and the Israeli government response to that is to launch more bombing raids on Yemen, we know which side is the impediment to peace If the Israeli government plan now is to completely take over Gaza, how is that not ethnic clensing | |||
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" Like they did yesterday… and the response.. they bombed a hospital!!!! " One hostage? What about the rest of them? Your comment about the Houthis and Yemen isn't even worth a response. "If the Israeli government plan now is to completely take over Gaza, how is that not ethnic clensing " It's an uncomfortable truth, but after more than a century of Arabs attacking Jews in the land of Israel - and it has always been Arabs inciting or attacking first - I'm surprised they didn't do it sooner. Ethnic cleansing is quite a modern term, but nobody complained when 12 million Germans were transferred out of (what is now) part of Poland post WW2 or a similar number of Muslims transferred out of India when that was partitioned. There is no other way unfortunately, and in their refusal to live in peace, they brought it on themselves. | |||
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"They could always surrender and release the hostages. Bit of a novel idea, but y'know..." __________________________________________________ I'm not sure the children of Gaza have the power to release any hostages. | |||
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" Like they did yesterday… and the response.. they bombed a hospital!!!! One hostage? What about the rest of them? Your comment about the Houthis and Yemen isn't even worth a response. If the Israeli government plan now is to completely take over Gaza, how is that not ethnic clensing It's an uncomfortable truth, but after more than a century of Arabs attacking Jews in the land of Israel - and it has always been Arabs inciting or attacking first - I'm surprised they didn't do it sooner. Ethnic cleansing is quite a modern term, but nobody complained when 12 million Germans were transferred out of (what is now) part of Poland post WW2 or a similar number of Muslims transferred out of India when that was partitioned. There is no other way unfortunately, and in their refusal to live in peace, they brought it on themselves. " That's a lie about always it's Arabs attacking Israelis first, there's recorded footage of Israeli settlers shooting and killing Palestinians in the west bank since the vile attack of Oct 7.. There are other documented atrocities by Israeli's upon Palestinians alongside attacks upon innocent Israeli 's prior to that date and you know this.. Equally there are those on both sides who want to live in peace and have tried to build bridges for decades.. It's not just one side who are wrong, there are wrongs on all sides.. | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital. The BBC and other news outlets quickly carried out their own investigation and found the hospital was nothing of the sort and was in fact a school showing its water system in to the school. Israel the country that keeps on giving." If they were called ‘Russia’, they would have been sanctioned & ostracised long before now & we certainly wouldn’t still be arming them to the teeth & beyond. To say The West has blood on its hands is something of an understatement. | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital. The BBC and other news outlets quickly carried out their own investigation and found the hospital was nothing of the sort and was in fact a school showing its water system in to the school. Israel the country that keeps on giving. If they were called ‘Russia’, they would have been sanctioned & ostracised long before now & we certainly wouldn’t still be arming them to the teeth & beyond. To say The West has blood on its hands is something of an understatement." Bloody drenched in it. And some agree wow just wow. | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital. The BBC and other news outlets quickly carried out their own investigation and found the hospital was nothing of the sort and was in fact a school showing its water system in to the school. Israel the country that keeps on giving. If they were called ‘Russia’, they would have been sanctioned & ostracised long before now & we certainly wouldn’t still be arming them to the teeth & beyond. To say The West has blood on its hands is something of an understatement." Should the US and European countries stop arming both Ukraine and Israel? If you’re saying the West has blood on its hands for supporting Israel, do you apply the same logic to Ukraine? | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital. The BBC and other news outlets quickly carried out their own investigation and found the hospital was nothing of the sort and was in fact a school showing its water system in to the school. Israel the country that keeps on giving. If they were called ‘Russia’, they would have been sanctioned & ostracised long before now & we certainly wouldn’t still be arming them to the teeth & beyond. To say The West has blood on its hands is something of an understatement. Should the US and European countries stop arming both Ukraine and Israel? If you’re saying the West has blood on its hands for supporting Israel, do you apply the same logic to Ukraine?" No is the simple answer from me. Why children are being killed in Ukraine, but slaughtered and starved denied medical care, are not allowed to leave (Ukraine sent their people to England amongst other countries) as Israel do this Russia are not starving people Russia are mostly killing soldiers. What I think is worst is the fact now Isreal seems to be getting away with the unlawful actions, now anyone including Putin can go ahead Putting slaughters thousands of children in Ukraine, holds back supplies and blockades their cities how could the west respond, only with two faces. | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital. The BBC and other news outlets quickly carried out their own investigation and found the hospital was nothing of the sort and was in fact a school showing its water system in to the school. Israel the country that keeps on giving. If they were called ‘Russia’, they would have been sanctioned & ostracised long before now & we certainly wouldn’t still be arming them to the teeth & beyond. To say The West has blood on its hands is something of an understatement. Should the US and European countries stop arming both Ukraine and Israel? If you’re saying the West has blood on its hands for supporting Israel, do you apply the same logic to Ukraine?" The two situations are of course, as you doubtless know, not the same. But to play along, yes, there is an argument that The West arming Ukraine ‘just enough’ to keep fighting is unnecessarily prolonging that conflict & therefore the death & bloodshed with absolutely little prospect of it ending any time soon in a long war of attrition. This approach would be more ‘reasonable’ perhaps if diplomatic efforts were being made alongside this to stop the war. There didn’t seem to be many diplomatic overtures made by the Biden administration to try & sort it out & get both sides round the table. Like him or loathe him, on Ukraine I broadly agree with Trump’s approach to get things moving towards an ending of it. | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. " They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.. | |||
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"That's a lie about always it's Arabs attacking Israelis first, there's recorded footage of Israeli settlers shooting and killing Palestinians in the west bank since the vile attack of Oct 7.." Since Oct 7th - that would not be 'first' would it? The actions of certain settler groups are not representative of Israel anyway - but again, when Jordan annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem, they kicked out the Jews burnt all the synagogues and used Jewish graves as building materials; technically, Arabs started it. "There are other documented atrocities by Israeli's upon Palestinians alongside attacks upon innocent Israeli 's prior to that date and you know this.. " I am not talking about October 7th here - I'm not even talking about 1948. Way back in 1886 Jews living in Petah Tikva were attacked by a group of Arabs, because they were using land sold to them by Arabs. This is one of the first recorded incidents at the start of this period of troubles. There is a historical catalogue of violence against Jews going back more than a century - it was only after several decades of attacks (Moshe Barsky 1913, Tel Hei 1920, Nebi Musa 1920, Jaffa 1921, Hebron 1929 to name a few) It was attacks on Jews that inspired the creation of pre-Haganah 'watchman' groups, like Bar Giora and Hashomer - because the Ottoman Army failed to protect them. It was always Arabs who attacked first. "Equally there are those on both sides who want to live in peace and have tried to build bridges for decades.. It's not just one side who are wrong, there are wrongs on all sides.." Absolutely there are wrongs on all sides, and there are absolutely people who want to make peace - sadly some of those peace activists were machined gunned to death at the Nova Festival. | |||
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"That's a lie about always it's Arabs attacking Israelis first, there's recorded footage of Israeli settlers shooting and killing Palestinians in the west bank since the vile attack of Oct 7.. Since Oct 7th - that would not be 'first' would it? The actions of certain settler groups are not representative of Israel anyway - but again, when Jordan annexed the West Bank and East Jerusalem, they kicked out the Jews burnt all the synagogues and used Jewish graves as building materials; technically, Arabs started it. There are other documented atrocities by Israeli's upon Palestinians alongside attacks upon innocent Israeli 's prior to that date and you know this.. I am not talking about October 7th here - I'm not even talking about 1948. Way back in 1886 Jews living in Petah Tikva were attacked by a group of Arabs, because they were using land sold to them by Arabs. This is one of the first recorded incidents at the start of this period of troubles. There is a historical catalogue of violence against Jews going back more than a century - it was only after several decades of attacks (Moshe Barsky 1913, Tel Hei 1920, Nebi Musa 1920, Jaffa 1921, Hebron 1929 to name a few) It was attacks on Jews that inspired the creation of pre-Haganah 'watchman' groups, like Bar Giora and Hashomer - because the Ottoman Army failed to protect them. It was always Arabs who attacked first. Equally there are those on both sides who want to live in peace and have tried to build bridges for decades.. It's not just one side who are wrong, there are wrongs on all sides.. Absolutely there are wrongs on all sides, and there are absolutely people who want to make peace - sadly some of those peace activists were machined gunned to death at the Nova Festival. " Again using history to justify an ongoing genocide by bombing starving plus withholding water. I remember a quote by Michael Cain, "Sometimes some people just want to see the world burn" | |||
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" Again using history to justify an ongoing genocide by bombing starving plus withholding water. I remember a quote by Michael Cain, "Sometimes some people just want to see the world burn"" Firstly, the history has never stopped - it's an ongoing resentment that has never been resolved, and all attempts to resolve it thus far have failed. It has always been Arabs who started it. The term Genocide a legal term, is being used indiscriminately by people who seem to want to change its meaning. It's weighted, unproven and doesn't hold up against the currently available statistics. Put it this way, if 70% of the buildings have been destroyed, but only 50 thousand people out of 2 million people have been killed, then this relatively low casualty rate might have something to do with the advanced warnings that are given out. Nevertheless, under article 23 of the Geneva Convention, a country has the right to refuse aid if that aid is found to be helping the enemy. Prior to the current blockade, Israel provided enough food to fill 80 stadiums the size of Wembley - and that wasn't the only aid coming in. If it's not getting through, then maybe we should look towards Hamas to explain that too. 🤔 | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital." If Hamas did not use their own infrastructure for military purposes, then maybe things like this would not happen. Go back to the video at the start of this thread - the man with the dead child literally referred him as martyred, i.e. someone who has been deliberately or willingly sacrificed for a cause. The potential that a sewage pipe was mistaken for a Hamas tunnel, says more about Hamas and their network of tunnels than it does about the IDF. | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.." The ideology of Hamas will be held by a lot of Palestinians and even more westerners... However there will be more and more Palestinians questioning why Hamas allowed Gaza to be flattened when there was no hope of ever winning, and while the people they are supposed to represent and protect are getting bombed daily. Israel took the fight directly to Hamas and hasn’t relented. The uncomfortable but realistic question is, why should they stop now? If they do, Hamas resurfaces, reclaims the supply lines, and the cycle starts again. History shows that sieges weaken the military and they break down the civilian support structure that supports them. Modern wars are being fought with drones and precision bombs, but the core tactics of war, isolate, pressure and dismantle remain the same. | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.. The ideology of Hamas will be held by a lot of Palestinians and even more westerners... However there will be more and more Palestinians questioning why Hamas allowed Gaza to be flattened when there was no hope of ever winning, and while the people they are supposed to represent and protect are getting bombed daily. Israel took the fight directly to Hamas and hasn’t relented. The uncomfortable but realistic question is, why should they stop now? If they do, Hamas resurfaces, reclaims the supply lines, and the cycle starts again. History shows that sieges weaken the military and they break down the civilian support structure that supports them. Modern wars are being fought with drones and precision bombs, but the core tactics of war, isolate, pressure and dismantle remain the same." I think like many other terrorists their support will wane and we've already seen people in Gaza openly challenging them which whilst dangerous is positive.. Any country where internal conflict is taking place will have support for their homeland, we saw it for many lucrative years for the IRA from America whose contributions kept arms and explosives coming.. | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.. The ideology of Hamas will be held by a lot of Palestinians and even more westerners... However there will be more and more Palestinians questioning why Hamas allowed Gaza to be flattened when there was no hope of ever winning, and while the people they are supposed to represent and protect are getting bombed daily. Israel took the fight directly to Hamas and hasn’t relented. The uncomfortable but realistic question is, why should they stop now? If they do, Hamas resurfaces, reclaims the supply lines, and the cycle starts again. History shows that sieges weaken the military and they break down the civilian support structure that supports them. Modern wars are being fought with drones and precision bombs, but the core tactics of war, isolate, pressure and dismantle remain the same. I think like many other terrorists their support will wane and we've already seen people in Gaza openly challenging them which whilst dangerous is positive.. Any country where internal conflict is taking place will have support for their homeland, we saw it for many lucrative years for the IRA from America whose contributions kept arms and explosives coming.." The support Hamas has had from some quarters has been questionable, as is always the case in these conflicts. What really concerns me, though, is the grip Hamas has over the people of Gaza. It’s a point that rarely gets discussed. The focus is always on Israel’s actions, but we never question the control Hamas puts on the population who are under daily threat from Israeli strikes. What I would genuinely like to know is, are the people of Gaza more afraid of Israeli attacks, or of Hamas retaliation if they speak up or protest? They can have fear of both, but one of those they fear operates from within. | |||
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"They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas" Which is why they need to remove them to somewhere as far away as possible - let the ideology go somewhere it can't cause any harm. | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.. The ideology of Hamas will be held by a lot of Palestinians and even more westerners... However there will be more and more Palestinians questioning why Hamas allowed Gaza to be flattened when there was no hope of ever winning, and while the people they are supposed to represent and protect are getting bombed daily. Israel took the fight directly to Hamas and hasn’t relented. The uncomfortable but realistic question is, why should they stop now? If they do, Hamas resurfaces, reclaims the supply lines, and the cycle starts again. History shows that sieges weaken the military and they break down the civilian support structure that supports them. Modern wars are being fought with drones and precision bombs, but the core tactics of war, isolate, pressure and dismantle remain the same. I think like many other terrorists their support will wane and we've already seen people in Gaza openly challenging them which whilst dangerous is positive.. Any country where internal conflict is taking place will have support for their homeland, we saw it for many lucrative years for the IRA from America whose contributions kept arms and explosives coming.. The support Hamas has had from some quarters has been questionable, as is always the case in these conflicts. What really concerns me, though, is the grip Hamas has over the people of Gaza. It’s a point that rarely gets discussed. The focus is always on Israel’s actions, but we never question the control Hamas puts on the population who are under daily threat from Israeli strikes. What I would genuinely like to know is, are the people of Gaza more afraid of Israeli attacks, or of Hamas retaliation if they speak up or protest? They can have fear of both, but one of those they fear operates from within." As choices go thats like choosing which leg you want cutting off or which child thrown off a roof.. Shitty mess .. | |||
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" Nevertheless, under article 23 of the Geneva Convention, a country has the right to refuse aid if that aid is found to be helping the enemy. Prior to the current blockade, Israel provided enough food to fill 80 stadiums the size of Wembley - and that wasn't the only aid coming in. If it's not getting through, then maybe we should look towards Hamas to explain that too. 🤔 " So that’s what we are doing now…. Okay! Any action taken should be proportionate ! Remember this 10 week direct blockade is due to this Israeli government not abiding by the terms of the ceasefire agreement… all obligations were completed under phase 1, one side said shall we then go onto phase two… And the other side said…. Let’s Collectively punish a group of people That in itself is a war crime… the reason why this Israeli government doesn’t want to go into phase 2 is that it will bring down the government… It’s not about “the hostages” … it’s about self preservation The UN reported literally 2 days that 94% of people are living in starvation equivalent conditions…. 1 side can stop that! | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.. The ideology of Hamas will be held by a lot of Palestinians and even more westerners... However there will be more and more Palestinians questioning why Hamas allowed Gaza to be flattened when there was no hope of ever winning, and while the people they are supposed to represent and protect are getting bombed daily. Israel took the fight directly to Hamas and hasn’t relented. The uncomfortable but realistic question is, why should they stop now? If they do, Hamas resurfaces, reclaims the supply lines, and the cycle starts again. History shows that sieges weaken the military and they break down the civilian support structure that supports them. Modern wars are being fought with drones and precision bombs, but the core tactics of war, isolate, pressure and dismantle remain the same. I think like many other terrorists their support will wane and we've already seen people in Gaza openly challenging them which whilst dangerous is positive.. Any country where internal conflict is taking place will have support for their homeland, we saw it for many lucrative years for the IRA from America whose contributions kept arms and explosives coming.. The support Hamas has had from some quarters has been questionable, as is always the case in these conflicts. What really concerns me, though, is the grip Hamas has over the people of Gaza. It’s a point that rarely gets discussed. The focus is always on Israel’s actions, but we never question the control Hamas puts on the population who are under daily threat from Israeli strikes. What I would genuinely like to know is, are the people of Gaza more afraid of Israeli attacks, or of Hamas retaliation if they speak up or protest? They can have fear of both, but one of those they fear operates from within."  And let's not forget who Hamas actually are. They are Palestinian citizens. They are the grandfathers, fathers, uncles and brothers of those they are causing so much misery and suffering to. When you see emotive pictures of starving and suffering children, it's their fathers and brothers who have caused this suffering. What kind of piece of shit human being would do this? Their own male family members is the answer. Disgusting creatures. | |||
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" Nevertheless, under article 23 of the Geneva Convention, a country has the right to refuse aid if that aid is found to be helping the enemy. Prior to the current blockade, Israel provided enough food to fill 80 stadiums the size of Wembley - and that wasn't the only aid coming in. If it's not getting through, then maybe we should look towards Hamas to explain that too. 🤔 So that’s what we are doing now…. Okay! Any action taken should be proportionate ! Remember this 10 week direct blockade is due to this Israeli government not abiding by the terms of the ceasefire agreement… all obligations were completed under phase 1, one side said shall we then go onto phase two… And the other side said…. Let’s Collectively punish a group of people That in itself is a war crime… the reason why this Israeli government doesn’t want to go into phase 2 is that it will bring down the government… It’s not about “the hostages” … it’s about self preservation The UN reported literally 2 days that 94% of people are living in starvation equivalent conditions…. 1 side can stop that! " and why would they you have a set of people who only want to see you eliminated so why should they help there enemy civilian or not all under one flag I wouldn't stop till there is nothing left not a rat or a dog war is war | |||
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"I think Israeli leadership are now of the mind that they have come this far, and must continue as they will never have a situation to defeat Hamas and destroy their infrastructure like this again. They will never defeat the ideology that is Hamas, we didn't either with the terrorists over the water.. They will massively degrade them yes but as we saw with internment the actions of the IDF has and will act as a recruiter for more of the same.. This now is a means for Netanyahu to avoid scrutiny as it pushes back the inquiries into the failures that allowed such a devastating and barbarous atrocity on 7 Oct plus it puts his trial for corruption on hold too.. The ideology of Hamas will be held by a lot of Palestinians and even more westerners... However there will be more and more Palestinians questioning why Hamas allowed Gaza to be flattened when there was no hope of ever winning, and while the people they are supposed to represent and protect are getting bombed daily. Israel took the fight directly to Hamas and hasn’t relented. The uncomfortable but realistic question is, why should they stop now? If they do, Hamas resurfaces, reclaims the supply lines, and the cycle starts again. History shows that sieges weaken the military and they break down the civilian support structure that supports them. Modern wars are being fought with drones and precision bombs, but the core tactics of war, isolate, pressure and dismantle remain the same. I think like many other terrorists their support will wane and we've already seen people in Gaza openly challenging them which whilst dangerous is positive.. Any country where internal conflict is taking place will have support for their homeland, we saw it for many lucrative years for the IRA from America whose contributions kept arms and explosives coming.. The support Hamas has had from some quarters has been questionable, as is always the case in these conflicts. What really concerns me, though, is the grip Hamas has over the people of Gaza. It’s a point that rarely gets discussed. The focus is always on Israel’s actions, but we never question the control Hamas puts on the population who are under daily threat from Israeli strikes. What I would genuinely like to know is, are the people of Gaza more afraid of Israeli attacks, or of Hamas retaliation if they speak up or protest? They can have fear of both, but one of those they fear operates from within." after watching the celebrations in the streets of gaza after October 7th all out singing dancing and cheering id say majority of Palestinians were very supportive of hamas,only reason they are bleating now is they all thought Israel would do there usual thing of hitting certain targets for a couple of months,well the miscalculated this time,you storm into Israel and took hundreds and murder over 1000 of there citezens they ain't just coming in for a couple of months,they are gona make the place uninhabitable so the Palestinians have no choice but to leave,fact is hamas went for it and its backfired on them big time,no way Israel are gona let them stay there now | |||
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"Has anyone heard the latest, Israel bombed a hospital, and told reporters that Hamas had tunnels under the hospital's and as prove it they gave out a picture of the hospital showing outlined in red the tunnels under the hospital. If Hamas did not use their own infrastructure for military purposes, then maybe things like this would not happen. Go back to the video at the start of this thread - the man with the dead child literally referred him as martyred, i.e. someone who has been deliberately or willingly sacrificed for a cause. The potential that a sewage pipe was mistaken for a Hamas tunnel, says more about Hamas and their network of tunnels than it does about the IDF." Caught lying is caught lying simples and Hamas didn't make them lie Israel's government did. So what Hamas has to do with an Israeli fib is beyond me. See no history session to justify kill women and children, just the fact, just the facts. "Before seeking revenge first dig two graves". | |||
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"When we say war, I see/understand that in the way both sides are armed sufficiently. So in that context this is not a war this is more like the IRA fighting Britian they had nothing of the sort that the British has and they could of went in and killed everyone but they didn't the sorted a peace and they still live where they lived then and now. Hamas fire rockets that hardly reach there targets, but Israel if they use their fighter jets you wouldn't ever know a bomb is coming your way due to the fighter firing this rockets from 3 miles out, so this is not a war it is now a genocide. like it or not. Politicians have asked the P.M about arms sales. M.P's are not happy with this situation." if it was genocide there would of been no one left after 6 months so genocide no,ethnic cleansing most definatley | |||
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"You should be ashamed of yourself for this comment. The blocking of aid into Gaza is well-documented by numerous agencies. So - all these agencies are wrong, and you’re right? Aid is being blocked, yes. Hamas was stealing aid - and potentially still is However, there's still enough food, for now. Reporting is weighted and biased. Arabs started this; they attacked Jews first - during the 'Zionist period', as far back as 1886 (Petah Tikva) Arabs could end this by releasing the hostages. In my opinion, population transfer out of Gaza and annexation of the territory is the only feasible solution remaining. Not ashamed." You should be. It started 70 years ago. Prior to Oct 7 th 95 per cent of civilian deaths ? Palestinians. 80 per cent of gazan children suffering clinical psychological trauma as a result of constant bombardment. 99.74 conviction rate for Palestinian detainees , unheard of even in apartheid south Africa. The number one cause of deaths for children long before Oct 7th? Gun shot to the head. Land theft and illegal demolition and seizure of homes. Containment in an open air prison . Denial of basic amenities to build and sustain gaza. Denial of rights of passage . I can go on and on. No population in the world would not have protested and fought such tyrranny . While I despise hamas and what they did on Oct 7th the response is wretched beyond belief and if you condone or advocate you are a monster. | |||
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"You should be. It started 70 years ago. " Whenever I see this statement I immediately realise how uninformed the person is. The first attack on Zionists by Arabs was in 1886 in Petah Tikva. If you think it started 70 years ago, you're basing that claim on a war that Arabs also started. | |||
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"When we say war, I see/understand that in the way both sides are armed sufficiently. So in that context this is not a war this is more like the IRA fighting Britian they had nothing of the sort that the British has and they could of went in and killed everyone but they didn't the sorted a peace and they still live where they lived then and now. Hamas fire rockets that hardly reach there targets, but Israel if they use their fighter jets you wouldn't ever know a bomb is coming your way due to the fighter firing this rockets from 3 miles out, so this is not a war it is now a genocide. like it or not. Politicians have asked the P.M about arms sales. M.P's are not happy with this situation.if it was genocide there would of been no one left after 6 months so genocide no,ethnic cleansing most definatley" It all depends when Israel stop killing people. Now here is what I mean by genocide. Imagine I kill a child heaven forbid, if I kill a child what is it I am depriving that child family of? The ability to bear children when they are older. The ability to further the Childs race. Now when half a populations children will not bear children in the future. That population will have serious issue returning to their original numbers, it would take a century. Just for balance Africa is only just returning to their numbers of population since the end of the s1ave trade. Israel wants to continue this, and when the children and mothers have been killed enough. Israel will just kick them out, why Israel hasn't done this already instead of killing the population is beyond me. | |||
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"And plus the great numbers who have been maimed. No legs at 4 year old how wicked. I do not think if I came across an Israeli I bring myself to speak to them if I knew." im pretty sure if an Israeli met you and knew what you think they wouldnt be to keen on speaking to you either, personaly i think we should stop selling them weapons and and let em all kick lumps out of each other, i pretty much have the same view of russia and ukraine not our circus so not our clowns, we have enough of our own instead of worrying about what other people are doing to each other | |||
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"When we say war, I see/understand that in the way both sides are armed sufficiently. So in that context this is not a war this is more like the IRA fighting Britian they had nothing of the sort that the British has and they could of went in and killed everyone but they didn't the sorted a peace and they still live where they lived then and now. Hamas fire rockets that hardly reach there targets, but Israel if they use their fighter jets you wouldn't ever know a bomb is coming your way due to the fighter firing this rockets from 3 miles out, so this is not a war it is now a genocide. like it or not. Politicians have asked the P.M about arms sales. M.P's are not happy with this situation." maybe if there is any hamas left after Israel as finished telling them they shouldn't have taken a pea shooter to a gun fight and it's definitely a war as for the ira we should have done the same completely wiped them of the earth. | |||
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"And plus the great numbers who have been maimed. No legs at 4 year old how wicked. I do not think if I came across an Israeli I bring myself to speak to them if I knew." Why don't you put your efforts into campaigning for Hamas to surrender? Then the war will stop. During WW2, the Japanese refused to surrender and vowed to keep killing Allied soldiers no matter what the cost to their countrymen (including their children) just as the Palestinians are vowing to do to Israel, so the US dropped nuclear bombs on Japan and they surrendered. Is this your preferred course of action? Only a fool believes that the Palestinians would stop killing Jews if Israel stop fighting, it's in their nature and it's in their own charter. | |||
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"And plus the great numbers who have been maimed. No legs at 4 year old how wicked. I do not think if I came across an Israeli I bring myself to speak to them if I knew.im pretty sure if an Israeli met you and knew what you think they wouldnt be to keen on speaking to you either, personaly i think we should stop selling them weapons and and let em all kick lumps out of each other, i pretty much have the same view of russia and ukraine not our circus so not our clowns, we have enough of our own instead of worrying about what other people are doing to each other" we cant do that just think of all that money that is there to be made selling weapons and hopefully once ukraine needs re building we might get some of those contracts aswell. after all we got well and trully screwed over in iraq, dead soilders and no rebuilding contracts was not a very good return on our investment | |||
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"When we say war, I see/understand that in the way both sides are armed sufficiently. So in that context this is not a war this is more like the IRA fighting Britian they had nothing of the sort that the British has and they could of went in and killed everyone but they didn't the sorted a peace and they still live where they lived then and now. Hamas fire rockets that hardly reach there targets, but Israel if they use their fighter jets you wouldn't ever know a bomb is coming your way due to the fighter firing this rockets from 3 miles out, so this is not a war it is now a genocide. like it or not. Politicians have asked the P.M about arms sales. M.P's are not happy with this situation.if it was genocide there would of been no one left after 6 months so genocide no,ethnic cleansing most definatley It all depends when Israel stop killing people. Now here is what I mean by genocide. Imagine I kill a child heaven forbid, if I kill a child what is it I am depriving that child family of? The ability to bear children when they are older. The ability to further the Childs race. Now when half a populations children will not bear children in the future. That population will have serious issue returning to their original numbers, it would take a century. Just for balance Africa is only just returning to their numbers of population since the end of the s1ave trade. Israel wants to continue this, and when the children and mothers have been killed enough. Israel will just kick them out, why Israel hasn't done this already instead of killing the population is beyond me." do you honestly believe that if Israel was trying to wipe them all out they wouldnt of finished them off by now? Like i said further up its definatley ethnic cleansing but nowhere near a genocide | |||
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"...Any action taken should be proportionate ! " What is proportionate? | |||
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"...Any action taken should be proportionate ! What is proportionate?" I often wonder what this means too - like, would it be acceptable for the IDF to randomly cut through the security fence, indiscriminately shoot 1200 people, snatch a few others as hostages, and maybe partake in some sexual assaults for good measure? 🤔 | |||
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"...Any action taken should be proportionate ! What is proportionate? I often wonder what this means too - like, would it be acceptable for the IDF to randomly cut through the security fence, indiscriminately shoot 1200 people, snatch a few others as hostages, and maybe partake in some sexual assaults for good measure? 🤔" The USA were brought into WW2 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. The Japanese killed 2403 Americans. The response from America was huge, but was it proportionate. I personally think it was but if you listen to some Hamas supporters on here maybe it wasn't, Mrs x | |||
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"...Any action taken should be proportionate ! What is proportionate? I often wonder what this means too - like, would it be acceptable for the IDF to randomly cut through the security fence, indiscriminately shoot 1200 people, snatch a few others as hostages, and maybe partake in some sexual assaults for good measure? 🤔The USA were brought into WW2 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbour. The Japanese killed 2403 Americans. The response from America was huge, but was it proportionate. I personally think it was but if you listen to some Hamas supporters on here maybe it wasn't, Mrs x" I'm curious to know just whom you think are supporters of Hamas on here..? | |||
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" I'm curious to know just whom you think are supporters of Hamas on here..? " The ones who decry any who disagree with them as a mouthpiece for the Zionist entity 
(Admittedly, they tend to go UNLOS) | |||
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" I'm curious to know just whom you think are supporters of Hamas on here..? The ones who decry any who disagree with them as a mouthpiece for the Zionist entity
(Admittedly, they tend to go UNLOS)"I've never seen anyone openly support any terrorist organisation on here, yes it's an emotive issue with strong opinions and does get personal with some towards others.. I think some deliberately try to blur the lines in accusations on all sides when the vast majority are rightly sick of the continuing slaughter that both sides have carried out.. | |||
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"Why don't Hamas come out behind the human shields and fight on the battle field like real soldiers? Sounds like a bunch of cowards hiding behind innocent people. " they are they would even hide behind there mother if it means they survive. | |||
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" I'm curious to know just whom you think are supporters of Hamas on here..? The ones who decry any who disagree with them as a mouthpiece for the Zionist entity
(Admittedly, they tend to go UNLOS)
I've never seen anyone openly support any terrorist organisation on here, yes it's an emotive issue with strong opinions and does get personal with some towards others..
I think some deliberately try to blur the lines in accusations on all sides when the vast majority are rightly sick of the continuing slaughter that both sides have carried out..
"People would be insane to openly support a terrorist organisation on a moderated forum. The moderators usually step in very swiftly when people (infrequently) do. | |||
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" I'm curious to know just whom you think are supporters of Hamas on here..? The ones who decry any who disagree with them as a mouthpiece for the Zionist entity
(Admittedly, they tend to go UNLOS)
I've never seen anyone openly support any terrorist organisation on here, yes it's an emotive issue with strong opinions and does get personal with some towards others..
I think some deliberately try to blur the lines in accusations on all sides when the vast majority are rightly sick of the continuing slaughter that both sides have carried out..
People would be insane to openly support a terrorist organisation on a moderated forum. The moderators usually step in very swiftly when people (infrequently) do."Agreed.. | |||
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"‘There are no uninvolved in Gaza’ says Israeli Knesset member Michal Waldiger in heated exchange with Knesset member Ahmad Tibi. During her remarks Waldiger expressed support for the killing of children in Gaza, "yes, they will also have to kill them, because there is no choice."? What a horrible cunt." The same sort of language used at the Wannsee conference in 1942.. Truly awful.. | |||
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"‘There are no uninvolved in Gaza’ says Israeli Knesset member Michal Waldiger in heated exchange with Knesset member Ahmad Tibi. During her remarks Waldiger expressed support for the killing of children in Gaza, "yes, they will also have to kill them, because there is no choice."? What a horrible cunt." While you might be right, it's incredible that there is a government in the Middle East where a "Michal Waldiger" can disagree with a "Ahmad Tibi" without blood being spilled. | |||
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"‘There are no uninvolved in Gaza’ says Israeli Knesset member Michal Waldiger in heated exchange with Knesset member Ahmad Tibi. During her remarks Waldiger expressed support for the killing of children in Gaza, "yes, they will also have to kill them, because there is no choice."? What a horrible cunt. While you might be right, it's incredible that there is a government in the Middle East where a "Michal Waldiger" can disagree with a "Ahmad Tibi" without blood being spilled." That’s because Mr Tibi & his ilk are a very much controlled minority within that ‘democracy’. | |||
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" While you might be right, it's incredible that there is a government in the Middle East where a "Michal Waldiger" can disagree with a "Ahmad Tibi" without blood being spilled. That’s because Mr Tibi & his ilk are a very much controlled minority within that ‘democracy’. " Even if true, it's still unique, remarkable and a good start. | |||
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"‘There are no uninvolved in Gaza’ says Israeli Knesset member Michal Waldiger in heated exchange with Knesset member Ahmad Tibi. During her remarks Waldiger expressed support for the killing of children in Gaza, "yes, they will also have to kill them, because there is no choice."? What a horrible cunt." I just listened to her speech, and while it was strong, the quote above lacks context. It was about anyone standing in the way of the IDF's operation to remove Hamas. She was questioned whether that included children, and she said yes - if they come against the IDF. Considering Hamas are known to use child soldiers and are also willing to martyr their children, it still puts a degree of responsibility onto Hamas to not put their children into harms way. It's totally unpleasant, sure, but so is Middle Eastern Eye for the way it was presented. | |||
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"They could always surrender and release the hostages. Bit of a novel idea, but y'know..." Nothing novel about stealing Palestinian land. The real semites need their land back and all the settlers need booting out. Shame the Palestinians don't have f35's and tanks to make it a fair fair fight. | |||
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"They could always surrender and release the hostages. Bit of a novel idea, but y'know... Nothing novel about stealing Palestinian land. The real semites need their land back and all the settlers need booting out. Shame the Palestinians don't have f35's and tanks to make it a fair fair fight." Tell me, how did the Palestinians get 'their' land - who gave it to them, or who did they buy it from? 🤔 | |||
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" And people still defend the IDF and the Israeli government! " What does it mean to "defend the IDF"? Or the Israeli government? | |||
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"So today we see the leaked Israeli government plan to basically split Gaza into three zones… Basically ethnic cleansing in all but name… And an Israeli air strike on what they told people was a “safe zone” killing 140 people Today Spain was the first European country to officially call what Israel are doing a “genocide” And people still defend the IDF and the Israeli government! " and why wouldn't they if I had a member of my family murdered id want revenge id want total destruction be it killing all in the way completely annihilation of the infrastructure and level the land . | |||
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"So today we see the leaked Israeli government plan to basically split Gaza into three zones… Basically ethnic cleansing in all but name… And an Israeli air strike on what they told people was a “safe zone” killing 140 people Today Spain was the first European country to officially call what Israel are doing a “genocide” And people still defend the IDF and the Israeli government! and why wouldn't they if I had a member of my family murdered id want revenge id want total destruction be it killing all in the way completely annihilation of the infrastructure and level the land ." your username sums you up completely! | |||
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"You only have to watch some of the documentaries some made by Jewish people about how much the Palestinians suffer both from the IDF and the settlers around Gaza and the west bank. But some people on here seem to think all Palestinians are hamas. and the IDF and settlers are always innocent and act with kindness." And not all Germans were Nazis, but we still bombed the fuck out of women and children to win a war that gives you the freedom of expression to make your post. | |||
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"You only have to watch some of the documentaries some made by Jewish people about how much the Palestinians suffer both from the IDF and the settlers around Gaza and the west bank. But some people on here seem to think all Palestinians are hamas. and the IDF and settlers are always innocent and act with kindness. And not all Germans were Nazis, but we still bombed the fuck out of women and children to win a war that gives you the freedom of expression to make your post." ok so I take it you think its justified to slaughter 1000s of innocent women and children. | |||
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"You only have to watch some of the documentaries some made by Jewish people about how much the Palestinians suffer both from the IDF and the settlers around Gaza and the west bank. But some people on here seem to think all Palestinians are hamas. and the IDF and settlers are always innocent and act with kindness. And not all Germans were Nazis, but we still bombed the fuck out of women and children to win a war that gives you the freedom of expression to make your post. ok so I take it you think its justified to slaughter 1000s of innocent women and children." You live, and I assume thrive, in a country responsible for the "slaughter" of 600,000 innocent people, 76,000 of whom were children. This, during your grandparents'/great-grandparents' time, which was not so long ago. It was called a victory and we still celebrate it. I'm not a hypocrite. | |||
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"The tipping point has been reached. Israel will need to consider their next step with extreme care, they are on the brink of political isolation." Well I am glad the uk government have finally done something, if only symbolic at this stage… getting the ambassador in “for a chat” and suspending free trade talks is a start, let’s see what France will get the EU to do I can see why the uk went after and sanctioned the people in the Louis Theroux documentary first.. I wonder if sanctions related to comments made by certain Israeli government officials will be next | |||
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"The tipping point has been reached. Israel will need to consider their next step with extreme care, they are on the brink of political isolation. Well I am glad the uk government have finally done something, if only symbolic at this stage… getting the ambassador in “for a chat” and suspending free trade talks is a start, let’s see what France will get the EU to do I can see why the uk went after and sanctioned the people in the Louis Theroux documentary first.. I wonder if sanctions related to comments made by certain Israeli government officials will be next" Sanctions on Israel and the ministers who championed the blockades should be a starting point. Israel have the infrastructure in place for the distribution and food centres in Gaza. There is nothing stopping the IDF from ensuring aid reaches the distribution centres directly from point of entry. The decision to let lorries travel without protection must have been deliberate, knowing they would be looted. Israel stepped way over the line in an attempt to justify a complete blockade. There can't be a person alive that can't see this is what they were doing, | |||
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"So much what about Ism going on in this thread to defend what Israel is doing… unbelievable!! So let’s act call a spade a spade The United Nations during the ceasefire were getting in 600 trucks a day to feed the population Then Israel put on a 10 week blockade on anything going into Gaza! Israel finally allowed some trucks into Gaza yesterday… it amounted to 9 trucks full of supplies! The United Nations wants to get in 14000 nutrition packs for babies, Israel are denying this request! This morning France, Canada and the UK issued a joint statement saying enough is enough…. And yet again called for a ceasefire And the statement response from Israel… claim it hands Hamas a victory, calls the statement anti semetic!!!! There you go!!! Fuck the historical shit… defend that!!! " I fully agree with you Fabio but sadly there's a few on here and other posts where they will never criticise the Israelis. And also that's Netanyahu's answer to anyone who criticizes Israel to call them antisemitic! In fact the vile cunt said the west should back Israel. | |||
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"The tipping point has been reached. Israel will need to consider their next step with extreme care, they are on the brink of political isolation. Well I am glad the uk government have finally done something, if only symbolic at this stage… getting the ambassador in “for a chat” and suspending free trade talks is a start, let’s see what France will get the EU to do I can see why the uk went after and sanctioned the people in the Louis Theroux documentary first.. I wonder if sanctions related to comments made by certain Israeli government officials will be next" if this is done correctly then the more corrupt politicians amongst the likud party will be hit hard. it's apparant that alot of their more dirty money is laundered through ownership of uk and particularly london based assets. It's probably time that they were denied enjoyment of the benefits of this country whilst they endulge themselves in this disgusting display of unecessary savage butchery | |||
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"Hamas has welcomed the move by the UK government. Our government has literally just received terrorist approval. Now, where are the hostages? " Of course Hamas welcomed it, they exploit every opportunity for propaganda. However, that’s irrelevant here in my opinion. Israel need a wakeup call. I can't see how anyone can justify starving hundreds of thousands with siege, starvation, and control of basic aid, especially when the IDF has the capability to manage / protect aid into Gaza and distribution through the centres they have already built. That removes the problem they said Hamas was causing, controlling and looting the aid. | |||
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"Jewish lobby" Tell me more about this 'Jewish lobby'.🙄 | |||
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"They could stop the starvation in a stroke and eliminate Hamas in Gaza by simlly dropping nuclear bombs. The trouble is, Netanyahu's bestie, Trump, wants a radiation free site to build hotels and condominiums on, so won't let the IDF get it over with quickly and efficiently. Never let it be said Trump does not have the best wishes of Gaza at heart. Gaza the strip of land that is. Soon to be renamed Cote de Trump. " Starvation a longer and harder death than a nuke | |||
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"Hamas has welcomed the move by the UK government. Our government has literally just received terrorist approval. Now, where are the hostages? " Snuff | |||
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"Jewish lobby Tell me more about this 'Jewish lobby'.🙄" Sorry, I must have subconsciously been antisemitic there for an unguarded moment by conflating Jews & Israel hahahahahahahaha. Good job I’m not in a public position eh? …even though I reckon it’s pretty safe to bet my balls on the likes of AIPAC being *overwhelmingly* both backed & manned by American Jews. Who the feck else would it be? Christian Zionists as the majority? | |||
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"Jewish lobby Tell me more about this 'Jewish lobby'.🙄 Sorry, I must have subconsciously been antisemitic there for an unguarded moment by conflating Jews & Israel hahahahahahahaha. Good job I’m not in a public position eh? …even though I reckon it’s pretty safe to bet my balls on the likes of AIPAC being *overwhelmingly* both backed & manned by American Jews. Who the feck else would it be? Christian Zionists as the majority?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism There are more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jews on the planet. | |||
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"Jewish lobby Tell me more about this 'Jewish lobby'.🙄 Sorry, I must have subconsciously been antisemitic there for an unguarded moment by conflating Jews & Israel hahahahahahahaha. Good job I’m not in a public position eh? …even though I reckon it’s pretty safe to bet my balls on the likes of AIPAC being *overwhelmingly* both backed & manned by American Jews. Who the feck else would it be? Christian Zionists as the majority? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism There are more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jews on the planet." Who does the backing with hard cash? “With a total of $7,432,880 in grants, the largest donor to AIPAC and its allies is Jan Koum, a Ukrainian-American entrepreneur and computer programmer best known as the co-_ounder and former CEO of WhatsApp, a popular messaging app. Born in Kiev to a Jewish family, he immigrated to the United States with his mother” | |||
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"Jewish lobby Tell me more about this 'Jewish lobby'.🙄 Sorry, I must have subconsciously been antisemitic there for an unguarded moment by conflating Jews & Israel hahahahahahahaha. Good job I’m not in a public position eh? …even though I reckon it’s pretty safe to bet my balls on the likes of AIPAC being *overwhelmingly* both backed & manned by American Jews. Who the feck else would it be? Christian Zionists as the majority? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism There are more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jews on the planet. Who does the backing with hard cash? “With a total of $7,432,880 in grants, the largest donor to AIPAC and its allies is Jan Koum, a Ukrainian-American entrepreneur and computer programmer best known as the co-_ounder and former CEO of WhatsApp, a popular messaging app. Born in Kiev to a Jewish family, he immigrated to the United States with his mother”" That may be the case. Still: "The largest American pro-Israel lobbying group is Christians United for Israel, which has over seven million members." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States | |||
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"Jewish lobby Tell me more about this 'Jewish lobby'.🙄 Sorry, I must have subconsciously been antisemitic there for an unguarded moment by conflating Jews & Israel hahahahahahahaha. Good job I’m not in a public position eh? …even though I reckon it’s pretty safe to bet my balls on the likes of AIPAC being *overwhelmingly* both backed & manned by American Jews. Who the feck else would it be? Christian Zionists as the majority? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Zionism There are more Christian Zionists in the US than there are Jews on the planet. Who does the backing with hard cash? “With a total of $7,432,880 in grants, the largest donor to AIPAC and its allies is Jan Koum, a Ukrainian-American entrepreneur and computer programmer best known as the co-_ounder and former CEO of WhatsApp, a popular messaging app. Born in Kiev to a Jewish family, he immigrated to the United States with his mother” That may be the case. Still: "The largest American pro-Israel lobbying group is Christians United for Israel, which has over seven million members." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_States" Pure numbers don’t count as much as the money does. An illustration of this is public opinion is shifting in the US despite all the pro Israeli propaganda. ‘the public’s views of Israel have turned more negative over the past three years. More than half of U.S. adults (53%) now express an unfavorable opinion of Israel, up from 42% in March 2022 – before the Hamas attack of Oct. 7, 2023, and the ensuing Israeli invasion of the Gaza Strip’ - Pew Research Center But hey, as long as Republicans & Democrats alike have their palms crossed with silver, who cares what the masses might think? | |||
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" But hey, as long as Republicans & Democrats alike have their palms crossed with silver, who cares what the masses might think?" That's gypsies, right? | |||
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"Meanwhile back to today and the IDF shooting towards EU diplomats " They were not shooting 'towards' anyone. 🙄 | |||
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"Meanwhile back to today and the IDF shooting towards EU diplomats just shows the contempt Israel has for anyone who doesn't support them. And channel 4 news tonight one of Netanyahu's government ministers said when asked why don't you allow innocent Palestinians come to Israel he responded with all Palestinians are the enemy including children!" this incident of the IDF being filmed firing on a large team of diplomats is not a good optic | |||
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"If they were firing 'at them' they'd be dead or injured - the language used does not seem to match the reality." What were they doing then? And why? | |||
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"If they were firing 'at them' they'd be dead or injured - the language used does not seem to match the reality. What were they doing then? And why?" Warning shots for straying from an approved route perhaps. 🤔 | |||
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"If they were firing 'at them' they'd be dead or injured - the language used does not seem to match the reality. What were they doing then? And why?Warning shots for straying from an approved route perhaps. 🤔" Warning shots at diplomats? I can think of more efficient means of dealing with the situation, can’t you? | |||
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"If they were really firing "at" them, they would have been injured or killed." Surely for starters you can accept that the very notion of ‘warning shots’ relating to diplomats is wrong? | |||
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"If they were really firing "at" them, they would have been injured or killed. Surely for starters you can accept that the very notion of ‘warning shots’ relating to diplomats is wrong?" No, it isn't wrong if they are failing to comply with the rules laid out before them. It is not unknown for people with a 'diplomat' status to abuse their position. | |||
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"If they were really firing "at" them, they would have been injured or killed. Surely for starters you can accept that the very notion of ‘warning shots’ relating to diplomats is wrong?No, it isn't wrong if they are failing to comply with the rules laid out before them. It is not unknown for people with a 'diplomat' status to abuse their position." No, somehow I didn’t think you’d accept any wrongdoing from the IDF. It’s pointless debating with an apologist. | |||
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"If they were firing 'at them' they'd be dead or injured - the language used does not seem to match the reality. What were they doing then? And why? Warning shots for straying from an approved route perhaps. 🤔" Why would they need an “approved route “ when they were on foot? Is there something the IDF possibly didn’t want them to see? Ballsy move firing at ambassadors and diplomats representing 31 countries!! | |||
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"If they were really firing "at" them, they would have been injured or killed. Surely for starters you can accept that the very notion of ‘warning shots’ relating to diplomats is wrong?No, it isn't wrong if they are failing to comply with the rules laid out before them. It is not unknown for people with a 'diplomat' status to abuse their position." why don't you just admit you support everything the IDF and Netanyahu says and does and everyone else is wrong! No doubt your find a way to defend the murder of the medical staff who was ambushed in the ambulances and then buried then lying about it until the video came out. | |||
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"why don't you just admit you support everything the IDF and Netanyahu says and does and everyone else is wrong! No doubt your find a way to defend the murder of the medical staff who was ambushed in the ambulances and then buried then lying about it until the video came out." Yes, I support a lot of what Netanyahu says - although he isn't above criticism. Also, Arab terrorists have a reputation for using ambulances to transport militants - they've been doing this since the first intifada. | |||
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"So Netanyahu reckons Starmer, Carney & Macron are enabling Hamas. " It doesn't matter what someone said previously, the above is still true. When a terrorist organisation thanks the government for its support, then you know you've got a shit government. When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it. Netanyahu's speech was spot on - turning a blind eye to months of 'Globalise the Intifada' cries and similar aggression from the pro-Pally crowd, you end up with radicalised and dangerous ideologues. Those on the far left could learn a lot from the Iranian revolution. | |||
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"So Netanyahu reckons Starmer, Carney & Macron are enabling Hamas. It doesn't matter what someone said previously, the above is still true. When a terrorist organisation thanks the government for its support, then you know you've got a shit government. When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it. Netanyahu's speech was spot on - turning a blind eye to months of 'Globalise the Intifada' cries and similar aggression from the pro-Pally crowd, you end up with radicalised and dangerous ideologues. Those on the far left could learn a lot from the Iranian revolution." Or the Israelis are so gullible they take it hook line and sinker, conveniently forgetting the military assistance we have given them.. Is that the actions of those who enable terrorists or is it the case that they have gone too far and need the advice of a friend..? | |||
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" When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it. " Would you be content with the more realistic 14000 kids dying in 12 months? | |||
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"So Netanyahu reckons Starmer, Carney & Macron are enabling Hamas. It doesn't matter what someone said previously, the above is still true. When a terrorist organisation thanks the government for its support, then you know you've got a shit government. When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it. Netanyahu's speech was spot on - turning a blind eye to months of 'Globalise the Intifada' cries and similar aggression from the pro-Pally crowd, you end up with radicalised and dangerous ideologues. Those on the far left could learn a lot from the Iranian revolution." I agree with you that turning a blind eye to protestors openly promoting Hamas has fuelled division and fed a dangerous state + them vs us narrative, driven by the unwillingness or perception of the government and police to tackle extremism from all quarters equally. However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so." Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations? | |||
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"Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations?" This - The Jewish state is so hated that they will find a way to damn them whatever they try. This is an example of the hypocritical double standards: Pro Palestinians: "Go back to Europe, white settlers, colonialists, blah blah!" Also Pro Palestinians: "Why is Israel in a European competition when they're not European?" Psychotic at the worst, misinformed at the best. | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations?" No. They’ve setup nothing of the sort. Aid is still not getting through in anywhere near the quantity needed, and people are having to go hunting for food. | |||
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"Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations? This - The Jewish state is so hated that they will find a way to damn them whatever they try. This is an example of the hypocritical double standards: Pro Palestinians: "Go back to Europe, white settlers, colonialists, blah blah!" Also Pro Palestinians: "Why is Israel in a European competition when they're not European?" Psychotic at the worst, misinformed at the best. " What about ‘pro Palestinians’ (whatever that means - I’m sure it means something to you) who want both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace in their existing locations? | |||
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"What about ‘pro Palestinians’ (whatever that means - I’m sure it means something to you) who want both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace in their existing locations?" That isn't what most of the protest movement is calling for. But current events are showing us that the potential for a two-state solution is finished. | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations?" I believe so and you are right the UN and others are complaining, when they should simply bite their lips and step out of the way. | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations? No. They’ve setup nothing of the sort. Aid is still not getting through in anywhere near the quantity needed, and people are having to go hunting for food." Then what have they set up with the USA? | |||
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"What about ‘pro Palestinians’ (whatever that means - I’m sure it means something to you) who want both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace in their existing locations?That isn't what most of the protest movement is calling for. But current events are showing us that the potential for a two-state solution is finished." It’s not finished, but it needs willingness on both sides to make it work. Willingness that is lacking - from both sides. Neither Hamas nor Israel have any interest in long-term peace at present. | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations? No. They’ve setup nothing of the sort. Aid is still not getting through in anywhere near the quantity needed, and people are having to go hunting for food. Then what have they set up with the USA?" Is aid flowing freely? | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations? No. They’ve setup nothing of the sort. Aid is still not getting through in anywhere near the quantity needed, and people are having to go hunting for food. Then what have they set up with the USA? Is aid flowing freely? " Was that a question or an answer? | |||
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" However, I’ve said this before, the deliberate aid blockade crossed a line. The IDF has the capability to control aid entry and distribution, removing Hamas from the chain if they choose to do so. Isn't this exactly what they've just set up? To outrage from all other humanitarian organisations? No. They’ve setup nothing of the sort. Aid is still not getting through in anywhere near the quantity needed, and people are having to go hunting for food. Then what have they set up with the USA? Is aid flowing freely? Was that a question or an answer?" It was both, as it happens. | |||
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"So Netanyahu reckons Starmer, Carney & Macron are enabling Hamas. It doesn't matter what someone said previously, the above is still true. When a terrorist organisation thanks the government for its support, then you know you've got a shit government. When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it. Netanyahu's speech was spot on - turning a blind eye to months of 'Globalise the Intifada' cries and similar aggression from the pro-Pally crowd, you end up with radicalised and dangerous ideologues. Those on the far left could learn a lot from the Iranian revolution." That is crazy you can slip in so much shit in the middle of a post with zero context and be so blasé and dismiss it… I am sure you are are aware of where the report came from and left it out on purpose, which is why it is so disingenuous….. But for everyone else… here is why he decided to dismiss.. or omit… I’ll let you choose! It is so disgusting that I thought about whether to pull them up on it or not…. Because you know, people only read what they want to read! “ When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it.” The report came from an emergency session called at the United Nations….the person giving said presentation was the chief head of UNICEF The United Nations had been trying to get in trucks with supplies specially with sachets of power baby formula ONLY for 10 weeks … and the Israeli government had refused every single request made on a daily basis to let it in It cannot be used for anything else….. So if you want to be as callous as the government minister and call babies enemy combatants, or collateral damage…. Say it! Own! Don’t hide behind calling it fake news! | |||
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"why don't you just admit you support everything the IDF and Netanyahu says and does and everyone else is wrong! No doubt your find a way to defend the murder of the medical staff who was ambushed in the ambulances and then buried then lying about it until the video came out. Yes, I support a lot of what Netanyahu says - although he isn't above criticism. Also, Arab terrorists have a reputation for using ambulances to transport militants - they've been doing this since the first intifada." and I suppose you support the illegal settlers who on a daily basis attack Palestinians who are backed by the IDF. | |||
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"I suppose you support the illegal settlers who on a daily basis attack Palestinians who are backed by the IDF." I support the settler movement in general, but I don't condone violence unless it's in retaliation. Think of it this way - the correct name for the West Bank is Judea and Samaria - with an overlap that extends past the 1948 demarcation line. Over the course of history, the entire land of Israel has been called Judea, Judah, The Kingdom of Israel and similar - Palestine (Or Syria Palaestina) was the name given to the land after the Romans defeated the Jewish uprising and used it to humiliate them - they literally named it after their enemies, the Philistines. It was renamed the 'West Bank' after Jordan occupied and annexed the region post 1948 - and when they did they burnt all the synagogues and expelled all the Jews (and used Jewish gravestones as building materials, in a similar style to the Nazis in Germany) The Settler movement started as a means to move back into territories previously cleansed of Jews. So, Judea is literally where the name Jew comes from - and telling Jews that they cannot live in their own ancestral homeland is ridiculous. It's like telling the Greeks that they cannot live in Greece. | |||
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"It's like telling the Greeks that they cannot live in Greece." Aren't you arguing pretty much this? By your twisted logic someone born in New York whose great-grandparents were from Russia has more right to live in the West Bank than a Muslim or Chrisitan born in Ramallah whose great-grandparents were also born in Ramallah. If the settler project was just about being able to live in the occupied territories that would be one thing but in reality the settlers are claiming that the land belongs to them. | |||
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"It's like telling the Greeks that they cannot live in Greece. Aren't you arguing pretty much this? By your twisted logic someone born in New York whose great-grandparents were from Russia has more right to live in the West Bank than a Muslim or Chrisitan born in Ramallah whose great-grandparents were also born in Ramallah. If the settler project was just about being able to live in the occupied territories that would be one thing but in reality the settlers are claiming that the land belongs to them." Judaism is an ethnicity, a tribe or a people. It is also a religion, but rejection of that religion does not stop someone being ethnically Jewish. So, comparisons with Christianity or Islam are flawed. But yes, if someone is Jewish - literally their tribe is from Judah/Judea/Israel, then they should have the right to live in the land of Israel. It is literally the Jewish homeland - and in other parts of Israel, 2 million Arabs live their lives largely unhindered; it was largely Arabs who had a problem sharing the land with Jews, even though they have more freedoms than nearly everywhere else in the Middle East. Similarly, if someone from a Native American tribe is born in Europe, and they strongly adhere to their ancient culture, they should still be allowed to live in the Americas should they choose to. Just because other land-back movements have struggled, does not mean a successful one needs to be a problem. | |||
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"Judaism is an ethnicity, a tribe or a people. It is also a religion, but rejection of that religion does not stop someone being ethnically Jewish. So, comparisons with Christianity or Islam are flawed." If I replaced religion with ethnicity would you still think the comparison was flawed if that ethnicity wasn't Jewish? "But yes, if someone is Jewish - literally their tribe is from Judah/Judea/Israel, then they should have the right to live in the land of Israel." But as I said, the settlers aren't talking about just being able to live in the West Bank, they claim that the land belongs to them. "Similarly, if someone from a Native American tribe is born in Europe, and they strongly adhere to their ancient culture, they should still be allowed to live in the Americas should they choose to." But again the settlers claim ownership of the land, not just a right to live there. Do you think european-born Native Americans could rightly claim to own the USA? Maybe you think modern day Italians could rightly say that London belongs to them because it used to be Londinium. Your arguments would be laughable if the consequences weren't so serious. | |||
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"But as I said, the settlers aren't talking about just being able to live in the West Bank, they claim that the land belongs to them." Politically, the land should generally belong to the state of Israel - as for individual ownership rights, I don't have a strong opinion but I don't think all settlers have the same ideas, and believing in an idea does not make it practicable. Whatever they actually believe, they should have the right to live there - as far as I am aware, the general idea is that the "people belong to the land", and not "the land belongs to the people" - nevertheless a metaphysical belief is not the same as a state-sanctioned law. I do, however, think the West Bank should be annexed, and everyone who does not want peace with Israel removed - the people who remain would have way more rights than they currently have in any other Middle Eastern country. "Do you think european-born Native Americans could rightly claim to own the USA?" Ideologically yes, but actually unworkable. It's a wholly different situation, and we have to think about what is practicable with regards to actual numbers. I am absolutely in favour of autonomy for Native tribes over their ancestral land as much as is practicable, and the expansion of those territories if possible. "Maybe you think modern day Italians could rightly say that London belongs to them because it used to be Londinium." No, because the Romans were invaders and occupiers and have no historical cultural connection to London - much like the Arabs who conquered The Levant in the 7th century. The English are also not indigenous to these islands - so, if for some unknown reason a tribe of persecuted English people - practising Saxon mythology and connected with the land - wanted to go back to Northern Europe to escape persecution, morally this would also be right - but it's ridiculous and unnecessary, as the English haven't faced centuries of persecution. | |||
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"So the last thing Netanyahu wants is a single-state solution. The second last thing he wants is a two-state solution. So the occupation will continue Indefinitely." Not without a population transfer, which is now being discussed - and how it should have been done prior to 1948 when the numbers were more manageable. Alternatively, not without getting rid of the democracy - after the 1948 war, Arabs remaining in Israel did not get citizen status for more than a decade. Had Churchill not handed half the region over to the Hashemites before the mandate formally started (Transjordan), it would have been far easier to partition the land properly. | |||
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"Not without a population transfer, which is now being discussed - and how it should have been done prior to 1948 when the numbers were more manageable. Alternatively, not without getting rid of the democracy - after the 1948 war, Arabs remaining in Israel did not get citizen status for more than a decade." I don't think you realise how damning some of the things you say are. "Had Churchill not handed half the region over to the Hashemites before the mandate formally started (Transjordan), it would have been far easier to partition the land properly." Transjordan was temporarilly bolted on to the mandate proposal after the French victory in the Franco-Syrian war, I don't think anyone expected that the British would administer that area. The whole post World War One thing was a mess but I'm not sure what this has to do with the prospect of Israel engineering the transfer of non-Jewish populations in the near future. | |||
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"The reason why the Israeli government won't annex all of the occupied territories is simple. The following numbers are approximate, one or two years old and subject to debate in both directions, but if you do the math it's obvious. Jews inside the 1967 green line = 7.75 million Jews in West Bank including East Jerusalem = 720,000 Non-Jews inside the 1967 green line = 2.5 million Non-Jews in Gaza = 2.1 million Non-Jews in West Bank including East Jerusalem = 3.3 million So in the combined area... Jews = 8.47 million Non-Jews = 7.9 million These numbers are so close that if the entire area was united under one democratic rule with a population of 16.37 million then over 48% of the population would be non-Jewish and at some point the Jews could become a minority. So the last thing Netanyahu wants is a single-state solution. The second last thing he wants is a two-state solution. So the occupation will continue Indefinitely." A few less today, the news reporting the IDF air strike on a Gaza home has killed nine children. A turkey shoot for the them in such a densely populated area with 1.9 million displaced. There won’t be any Palestinian state and nobody anywhere going to stop the killing of civilians. | |||
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"They could always surrender and release the hostages. Bit of a novel idea, but y'know..." 58 hostages held apparently, how many alive though | |||
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"Bibi the baby butcher has now lost international support and rightly so ... hopefully it's the begining of the end for him and his extremist kach comrades. israel deserves better than this kahanist buch of savages who are in government. " Gaza is annexed now. Toothless UN and west condemning but doing nothing, banning Israeli strawberry imports isn’t going to bring back 55,000 civilians. The head chopping islams not bothered either | |||
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" “ When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it.” The report came from an emergency session called at the United Nations….the person giving said presentation was the chief head of UNICEF ... Don’t hide behind calling it fake news! " "The United Nations humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher has told the BBC that 14,000 babies in Gaza could die within the next two days unless aid can reach them." That information was fake news. He either lied or made an egregious error. The BBC subsequently issued a correction. The UN had clarified further what the number represents. What did the actual 14,000 number mean? Should the current (minimal) level of aid continue, then 14,100 children in Gaza (between the ages of 6 & 59 months) would be at risk of acute malnutrition. Clearly even this is unacceptable and must be avoided. However, for such a public figure to go on the BBC Today programme and make such a grim (untrue) forecast (14,000 dead babies within 48h), laid at the feet of the Israeli government, is something that should never happen. | |||
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" “ When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it.” The report came from an emergency session called at the United Nations….the person giving said presentation was the chief head of UNICEF ... Don’t hide behind calling it fake news! "The United Nations humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher has told the BBC that 14,000 babies in Gaza could die within the next two days unless aid can reach them." That information was fake news. He either lied or made an egregious error. The BBC subsequently issued a correction. The UN had clarified further what the number represents. What did the actual 14,000 number mean? Should the current (minimal) level of aid continue, then 14,100 children in Gaza (between the ages of 6 & 59 months) would be at risk of acute malnutrition. Clearly even this is unacceptable and must be avoided. However, for such a public figure to go on the BBC Today programme and make such a grim (untrue) forecast (14,000 dead babies within 48h), laid at the feet of the Israeli government, is something that should never happen." What did the actual 14,000 number mean? Should the current (minimal) level of aid continue, then 14,100 children in Gaza (between the ages of 6 & 59 months) would be at risk of acute malnutrition*. *By May 2026 | |||
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" “ When fake news is circulated by the BBC stating that '14000 kids would die in 48 hours' and it prompts suspension of trade talks - then of course people will get angry and believe it.” The report came from an emergency session called at the United Nations….the person giving said presentation was the chief head of UNICEF ... Don’t hide behind calling it fake news! "The United Nations humanitarian chief Tom Fletcher has told the BBC that 14,000 babies in Gaza could die within the next two days unless aid can reach them." That information was fake news. He either lied or made an egregious error. The BBC subsequently issued a correction. The UN had clarified further what the number represents. What did the actual 14,000 number mean? Should the current (minimal) level of aid continue, then 14,100 children in Gaza (between the ages of 6 & 59 months) would be at risk of acute malnutrition. Clearly even this is unacceptable and must be avoided. However, for such a public figure to go on the BBC Today programme and make such a grim (untrue) forecast (14,000 dead babies within 48h), laid at the feet of the Israeli government, is something that should never happen. What did the actual 14,000 number mean? Should the current (minimal) level of aid continue, then 14,100 children in Gaza (between the ages of 6 & 59 months) would be at risk of acute malnutrition*. *By May 2026" I asked the other poster if 14,000 child deaths in 12 months was acceptable, but received no response. | |||
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"There will be more silence once they completely level Gaza Actually, there is more silence on the (far greater) starvation in Yemen. Gaza gets more airtime and protest than any other conflict in recent times (including Russia/Ukraine). The civil war in Yemen has put it on 126/127 on the global hunger index ( https://www.globalhungerindex.org/pdf/en/2024/Yemen.pdf ). Even more silent (and bigger) is the 150,000 killed in Sudan since 2023, plus the famine there ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024%E2%80%93present) ) If you're going to use terms like "more silence", there are much bigger issues with far more silence. When every major news outlet had had an article on this topic on a weekly (or daily) basis... When even a swinging website has one thread per week started on it... That is not "more silence". Live for those in Gaza is terrible; often those suffering the most have done absolutely nothing to deserve it. But there is no silence on this matter and it's disingenuous to declare that there is, particularly when far wider-reaching (in terms of scale) tragedies attract barely any Western media attention." | |||
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"There will be more silence once they completely level Gaza Actually, there is more silence on the (far greater) starvation in Yemen. Gaza gets more airtime and protest than any other conflict in recent times (including Russia/Ukraine). The civil war in Yemen has put it on 126/127 on the global hunger index ( https://www.globalhungerindex.org/pdf/en/2024/Yemen.pdf ). Even more silent (and bigger) is the 150,000 killed in Sudan since 2023, plus the famine there ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Sudan_(2024%E2%80%93present) ) If you're going to use terms like "more silence", there are much bigger issues with far more silence. When every major news outlet had had an article on this topic on a weekly (or daily) basis... When even a swinging website has one thread per week started on it... That is not "more silence". Live for those in Gaza is terrible; often those suffering the most have done absolutely nothing to deserve it. But there is no silence on this matter and it's disingenuous to declare that there is, particularly when far wider-reaching (in terms of scale) tragedies attract barely any Western media attention." | |||
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"Regardless of who’s doing what and when if anyone can defend and sympathise with Israel whilst all this death & suffering of innocent people is happening, it tells me everything I need to know about" I understand this comment, but shouldn't there also be the same said about Hamas? | |||
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" I asked the other poster if 14,000 child deaths in 12 months was acceptable, but received no response. " See above: " Clearly even this is unacceptable and must be avoided. " But that wasn't the issue being discussed. The issue is the impact of that incorrect statement. The difference to a group of people (Jews, or "Israelis") between being associated with killing 14,000 babies within 48h and causing a risk of malnutrition over 10 months if steps are not taken is immense. | |||
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"Regardless of who’s doing what and when if anyone can defend and sympathise with Israel whilst all this death & suffering of innocent people is happening, it tells me everything I need to know about I understand this comment, but shouldn't there also be the same said about Hamas?" No. About the *people* defending and sympathising with Hamas. | |||
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"Regardless of who’s doing what and when if anyone can defend and sympathise with Israel whilst all this death & suffering of innocent people is happening, it tells me everything I need to know about I understand this comment, but shouldn't there also be the same said about Hamas? No. About the *people* defending and sympathising with Hamas." Who has defended Hamas, here? | |||
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"Anyone defending or trying to justify what some of the politicians have said in the Knesset or outside it's walls about killing Palestinian children being justified has the same moral emptiness and twisted mindset as those in Gaza who celebrated the vile attack of 7 Oct.. It's long overdue that such people are put to the sidelines in both societies and the moderate voices take centre stage .. But I'm not holding my breath.." This is true. Those politicians are an embarrassment to Israel and do it absolutely no favours on the domestic or international stage. This is part of the issue with proportional representation. You can get nutty (or evil) fringes who hold a balance of power and their views are unnecessarily amplified. | |||
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"Regardless of who’s doing what and when if anyone can defend and sympathise with Israel whilst all this death & suffering of innocent people is happening, it tells me everything I need to know about I understand this comment, but shouldn't there also be the same said about Hamas? No. About the *people* defending and sympathising with Hamas." I’m not talking about people defending Hamas, that’s a no brainer, a hard no. I’m talking about all the emphasis being on Israel, Hamas seem to fly under the radar of criticism by many and they too should be highlighted as having a responsibility to bring this to an end. | |||
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"The issue is the impact of that incorrect statement. The difference to a group of people (Jews, or "Israelis") between being associated with killing 14,000 babies within 48h and causing a risk of malnutrition over 10 months if steps are not taken is immense." Yes. Tom Fletcher said something a bit stupid in the BBC interview. But let's try to understand why. There are apparently about 14,000 babies in Gaza and the majority of their mothers are malnourished as a result of the long blockade on food supplies - so malnourished that some will be struggling to breast feed. Therefore baby formula becomes critical. The argument that Hamas might divert baby formula for their own use doesn't stand up. Therefore Israel denying access to baby formula presents a serious risk to the survival of 14,000 babies. I'm not sure how long a baby can survive without breast milk or baby formula. 10 months sounds unrealistic. His comments weren't well thought through but I can see why someone with responsibilities for humanitarian aid and relief work might fumble his response in such a situation. | |||
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"The issue is the impact of that incorrect statement. The difference to a group of people (Jews, or "Israelis") between being associated with killing 14,000 babies within 48h and causing a risk of malnutrition over 10 months if steps are not taken is immense. " The why is entirely uninteresting. In another thread (and countless others), people point out that Netanyahu is putting the lives of Jews and Israelis around the world at risk with his actions. Of course he is not threatening to directly kill or injure people, rather reports of his actions are causing people to feel hatred and anger, which is directed towards Jews with fatal results. There is nothing on the planet that will foster the intensity of hatred that baby killing will. The most obvious example being the blood libel that originated here in the UK, which caused pogroms across Europe and the expulsion of Jews from the UK. The amplification (and almost silent retraction, or "correction") has ricocheted around the world by now. Perhaps people feel "great, the message was wrong, but the outcome is justified". Meanwhile, these words have a fatal impact. So, however righteously he came by his fake news, a person in that position should never speak at he spoke. And his apology should be shouted from the rooftops, not implied in a tangential news article. | |||
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"I don't think you realise how damning some of the things you say are." I know completely what I am saying and I don't say it for popularity points -- it's not something I say lightly, but after giving a lot of thought to it I can think of no other solution. My own idea, which has been explored before, would be to incentivise Egypt to build a new state or region in Sinai, invest a shitload of money into it and use a more 'carrot' than 'stick' approach to offer the chance of prosperity, first to Gazans and later to those in the West Bank. The prime focus has to be on encouraging prosperity - prosperous people are less likely to fight, and traditionally one of the biggest resentments Arabs seem to have over Israel is its success - this is potentially why the wealthier Arab states are now more accepting of Israel than the poorer ones. But this has to be done with the approval of the Arab League and without the prospect of Hamas or some other Iranian proxy getting its foot in the door, so a bit of a challenge. " I'm not sure what this has to do with the prospect of Israel engineering the transfer of non-Jewish populations in the near future. " Just being reflective - nobody really knows how it would have turned out without the creation of Transjordan, but no matter what side of this fight someone is on, everyone agrees that the British totally ballsed it up. From carving off Transjordan to the 1939 White Paper, from installing Al Husseini as Mufti to interring 55000 Jews in Cyprus - the British had one job, and they fucked it. | |||
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"The UN official wasn't conflating Jews and the Israeli government. You appear to be doing so though. Just to be clear do you think it is acceptable for the Israeli government to deny the entry of baby formula to Gaza?" yes definitely like any war if you can control your enemy's why wouldn't you you don't pick and choose who we should save there parents are as complicit as hamas so I'd say anyone should be a target next time they would think about attacking | |||
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"The UN official wasn't conflating Jews and the Israeli government. You appear to be doing so though. " (sigh) You really can't read, can you? " Just to be clear do you think it is acceptable for the Israeli government to deny the entry of baby formula to Gaza?" Just to be clear: No. You really can't read, can you? You seem to be one of those people who assumes that someone who is at odds with some of what you say must be all-in on the "other side". A reductive, straw-man position to take (the irony of this statement is not lost...). This is exactly the problem with how these discussions usually go... | |||
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