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USA & EU agree terms
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It nearly went to the wire but it appears that the USA and the EU have struck a deal concerning the threatened tariff increases. It was to be 30% but now agreed at 15%. It does not seem to have been warmly welcomed by the EU member states. The BBC article opening paragraphs:
Leaders from Europe's two largest economies have led a chorus of gloomy reactions to the trade deal struck between EU chief Ursula von der Leyen and US President Donald Trump.
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz said the agreement would "substantially damage" his nation's finances, while French Prime Minister Francois Bayrou said it was tantamount to "submission
On the up side it provides some certainty for business but could they have achieved better? Should they have retaliated as they originally suggested? |
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"US trade tariffs on EU Goods are worth trillions to the US over the next few decades."
They won't last for a few decades. The tariffs will be dropped as soon as inflation gets too high. They certainly won't be kept by the next president. |
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The dollar has lost 10% of its value, add on 15% tariff,that's a huge increase on eu goods,for American consumers, I think defence and energy supply was a huge influence on getting a deal done here. |
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"US trade tariffs on EU Goods are worth trillions to the US over the next few decades.
They won't last for a few decades. The tariffs will be dropped as soon as inflation gets too high. They certainly won't be kept by the next president."
I wouldn’t bet on it. There were tens of thousands of tariffs in place on US imports before Trump 2 so they aren’t exactly new. Anyone would think there were no tariffs on global trade pre Trump.
It’s also easy money for the government. Sure it has to be balanced against possible negative economic consequences but the US government is as desperate for cash as the UK government and the tariffs are increasing revenue collections. Possible that governments of any hue will get addicted to the cash.
According to data from the U.S. Treasury Department, tariff collections reached approximately $124.3 billion as of July 2025, representing a 130.8% increase compared to the same period in the previous year. June 2025 saw $27.2 billion in revenue, while May recorded $22.8 billion. Overall, customs levies have exceeded $100 billion for the year to date. |
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"EU clearly panicked/caved in after UK and Japan secured deals , US trade tariffs on EU Goods are worth trillions to the US over the next few decades.
"
Why didn't they just go for the same deal that the UK and Japan got with Trump, or was that not available? The EU is very large and in theory should carry more negotiating power so expected them to get a more favourable deal. It is however better than a full blown trade war with the US. It seems more energy in the form of gas will be supplied by the US as well which helps both sides at the cost to Russia |
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By *otMe66Man 1 day ago
Terra Firma |
"EU clearly panicked/caved in after UK and Japan secured deals , US trade tariffs on EU Goods are worth trillions to the US over the next few decades.
Why didn't they just go for the same deal that the UK and Japan got with Trump, or was that not available? The EU is very large and in theory should carry more negotiating power so expected them to get a more favourable deal. It is however better than a full blown trade war with the US. It seems more energy in the form of gas will be supplied by the US as well which helps both sides at the cost to Russia "
The EU negotiates as a bloc, but most of the surplus with the US comes from a few countries like Germany. That makes it harder to agree quickly, unlike the UK or Japan, and why you will hear Germany complaining. |
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I think it’s significant that deals can be done so quickly when both sides want to. The ongoing negotiations that seem to last years sometimes are clearly just a way for the negotiators to keep themselves in a job. |
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"I think it’s significant that deals can be done so quickly when both sides want to. The ongoing negotiations that seem to last years sometimes are clearly just a way for the negotiators to keep themselves in a job. "
The terms agreed by Trump are simply framework agreements which then need to get fleshed out and eventually documented and signed.
I very much doubt if the deal with the EU will ever come into force as the EU will demand recompense for digital rights and Trump will again explode.
At least he is enjoying spending American tax payers money on his golfing trip in Scotland.
Hope he doesn't lose too many balls.. |
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"I think it’s significant that deals can be done so quickly when both sides want to. The ongoing negotiations that seem to last years sometimes are clearly just a way for the negotiators to keep themselves in a job.
The terms agreed by Trump are simply framework agreements which then need to get fleshed out and eventually documented and signed.
I very much doubt if the deal with the EU will ever come into force as the EU will demand recompense for digital rights and Trump will again explode.
At least he is enjoying spending American tax payers money on his golfing trip in Scotland.
Hope he doesn't lose too many balls.. "
The EU has played a blinder in this negotiation.
They’ve deliberately allowed themselves to be totally humiliated on the world stage so they can lull Trump into a false sense of security in future negotiations.
Genius. |
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"I think it’s significant that deals can be done so quickly when both sides want to. The ongoing negotiations that seem to last years sometimes are clearly just a way for the negotiators to keep themselves in a job.
The terms agreed by Trump are simply framework agreements which then need to get fleshed out and eventually documented and signed.
I very much doubt if the deal with the EU will ever come into force as the EU will demand recompense for digital rights and Trump will again explode.
At least he is enjoying spending American tax payers money on his golfing trip in Scotland.
Hope he doesn't lose too many balls..
The EU has played a blinder in this negotiation.
They’ve deliberately allowed themselves to be totally humiliated on the world stage so they can lull Trump into a false sense of security in future negotiations.
Genius."
You obviously have the inside track here and are fully aware of what is happening economically not just in the UK but globally.
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"I think it’s significant that deals can be done so quickly when both sides want to. The ongoing negotiations that seem to last years sometimes are clearly just a way for the negotiators to keep themselves in a job.
The terms agreed by Trump are simply framework agreements which then need to get fleshed out and eventually documented and signed.
I very much doubt if the deal with the EU will ever come into force as the EU will demand recompense for digital rights and Trump will again explode.
At least he is enjoying spending American tax payers money on his golfing trip in Scotland.
Hope he doesn't lose too many balls..
The EU has played a blinder in this negotiation.
They’ve deliberately allowed themselves to be totally humiliated on the world stage so they can lull Trump into a false sense of security in future negotiations.
Genius."
Some major EU members seem to be feeling the same though they say submission rather than humiliation. |
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"EU clearly panicked/caved in after UK and Japan secured deals , US trade tariffs on EU Goods are worth trillions to the US over the next few decades.
Why didn't they just go for the same deal that the UK and Japan got with Trump, or was that not available? The EU is very large and in theory should carry more negotiating power so expected them to get a more favourable deal. It is however better than a full blown trade war with the US. It seems more energy in the form of gas will be supplied by the US as well which helps both sides at the cost to Russia
The EU negotiates as a bloc, but most of the surplus with the US comes from a few countries like Germany. That makes it harder to agree quickly, unlike the UK or Japan, and why you will hear Germany complaining. "
I can appreciate negotiating for 27 countries, that have different angles on the subject, would take longer than a single country. However given the size of the EU and economic clout they have over others, I thought (wrongly) that they would get at least equal to what the UK and Japan managed. How long this lasts is anyone's guess. Trump may reduce the tariff rate during his presidency or it may be the next presidents decision to change or not. I could well be mistaken but I thought I read somewhere that Biden kept several tariffs that Trump introduced in his first term, so new president does not always mean changing tariffs. |
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By *abioMan 19 hours ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"UK US deal much better.
Another Brexit benefit.
 "
…..
Erm….. no so much… ish
The average UK product being exported to the US had a tariff of 2.8% on it…. Now it’s “supposedly” 10% and remember the US had a trade surplus on goods
The average EU product being exported to the US had a tariff of 5.4% on it…. Now it’s “supposedly” 15% and remember the EU had a trade surplus on goods
The reason I said “ish” is that you could look at it in 2 different ways
A) the flat rates… 10% vs 15%
B) the ratio.. 4 times the old rate vs 3 times the old rate |
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"UK US deal much better.
Another Brexit benefit.
…..
Erm….. no so much… ish
The average UK product being exported to the US had a tariff of 2.8% on it…. Now it’s “supposedly” 10% and remember the US had a trade surplus on goods
The average EU product being exported to the US had a tariff of 5.4% on it…. Now it’s “supposedly” 15% and remember the EU had a trade surplus on goods
The reason I said “ish” is that you could look at it in 2 different ways
A) the flat rates… 10% vs 15%
B) the ratio.. 4 times the old rate vs 3 times the old rate"
I’ve no doubt others would have been able to make more of the freedoms that Brexit has brought than the hapless Starmer and his gang of incompetents.
Let’s see what pro EU nutjob Guy Verhofstadt (former Belgium PM and EU MEP) thinks about the EU’s “deal”:
“The EU - US deal is scandalous …. a disaster … with not one concession from the American side … badly negotiated”.
EU economic performance has been dismal since 2008 compared to the US. The EU continues to be the global economic laggard. No surprise that the socialist technocrats’ desperation has made its way into their “deal” with the US.
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"UK US deal much better.
Another Brexit benefit.
…..
Erm….. no so much… ish
The average UK product being exported to the US had a tariff of 2.8% on it…. Now it’s “supposedly” 10% and remember the US had a trade surplus on goods
The average EU product being exported to the US had a tariff of 5.4% on it…. Now it’s “supposedly” 15% and remember the EU had a trade surplus on goods
The reason I said “ish” is that you could look at it in 2 different ways
A) the flat rates… 10% vs 15%
B) the ratio.. 4 times the old rate vs 3 times the old rate
I’ve no doubt others would have been able to make more of the freedoms that Brexit has brought than the hapless Starmer and his gang of incompetents.
Let’s see what pro EU nutjob Guy Verhofstadt (former Belgium PM and EU MEP) thinks about the EU’s “deal”:
“The EU - US deal is scandalous …. a disaster … with not one concession from the American side … badly negotiated”.
EU economic performance has been dismal since 2008 compared to the US. The EU continues to be the global economic laggard. No surprise that the socialist technocrats’ desperation has made its way into their “deal” with the US.
"
What do you expect when the EU is headed by the most useless politician since Kathy Ashton?
She was a complete disaster as German defence minister, the broomsticks episode being just one of her cock ups.
Merkel shipped her off to Brussels to get rid of her and the Germans don't want "Flinten Ushi" back. |
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By *abioMan 13 hours ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
B) the ratio.. 4 times the old rate vs 3 times the old rate
Isn't the difference more important than the factor?"
Again… the answer is… ish
Were we not told one of the whole points of Brexit was to get the unicorn that was the comprehensive free trade agreement with the US?
That is now dead under Trump!
He complained about trade imbalances… so what did he do with every single country the US had a trade surplus over… he slapped an extra 10% on them
That’s not sound economic policy, that’s a cash grab
FTA aren’t FTA’s anymore if it’s really FTA plus 10%, and the whole point is taking down barriers to trade, so if you are already at a level of zero percentage, you don’t have anything to give away… so the option really is “sit there and take it” or “retaliate”
He doesn’t use tariffs as a business tool, he uses them to badger other countries political policy (which is sailing very closely to legality)
For example…. He complained about Europe and Japan not buying enough US built cars… bloody huge cars are really suitable for our roads, aren’t as fuel efficient ect ect
With Australia it’s beef … doesn’t take into consideration that they already produce more than enough for their own consumption which is why they export, also they can export but they have to provide proof it’s not mixed in with Canadian or Mexican breeding herds… they don’t like that rule!
We… the UK aren’t big enough to “retaliate” so we just sit there and take it and limit the damage
China and the EU are big enough to “retaliate” so let’s see if the EU in kind slap a 15% tariff on in response
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By *eroy1000 OP Man 10 hours ago
milton keynes |
"
B) the ratio.. 4 times the old rate vs 3 times the old rate
Isn't the difference more important than the factor?
Again… the answer is… ish
Were we not told one of the whole points of Brexit was to get the unicorn that was the comprehensive free trade agreement with the US?
That is now dead under Trump!
He complained about trade imbalances… so what did he do with every single country the US had a trade surplus over… he slapped an extra 10% on them
That’s not sound economic policy, that’s a cash grab
FTA aren’t FTA’s anymore if it’s really FTA plus 10%, and the whole point is taking down barriers to trade, so if you are already at a level of zero percentage, you don’t have anything to give away… so the option really is “sit there and take it” or “retaliate”
He doesn’t use tariffs as a business tool, he uses them to badger other countries political policy (which is sailing very closely to legality)
For example…. He complained about Europe and Japan not buying enough US built cars… bloody huge cars are really suitable for our roads, aren’t as fuel efficient ect ect
With Australia it’s beef … doesn’t take into consideration that they already produce more than enough for their own consumption which is why they export, also they can export but they have to provide proof it’s not mixed in with Canadian or Mexican breeding herds… they don’t like that rule!
We… the UK aren’t big enough to “retaliate” so we just sit there and take it and limit the damage
China and the EU are big enough to “retaliate” so let’s see if the EU in kind slap a 15% tariff on in response
"
I was a bit surprised that the EU did not retaliate and as far as I understand now seem to have ruled that out. Before they were saying they would retaliate and were talking tough. It does not seem to have helped given the weaker UK and Japan got a better end rate. I assume if still in the EU and with a surplus of goods between US and UK in the favour of the US, the UK would be facing 15%. The main losers are likely the American public with higher prices. Adidas have announced price rises for American customers due to the extra costs |
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"
B) the ratio.. 4 times the old rate vs 3 times the old rate
Isn't the difference more important than the factor?
Again… the answer is… ish
Were we not told one of the whole points of Brexit was to get the unicorn that was the comprehensive free trade agreement with the US?
That is now dead under Trump!
He complained about trade imbalances… so what did he do with every single country the US had a trade surplus over… he slapped an extra 10% on them
That’s not sound economic policy, that’s a cash grab
FTA aren’t FTA’s anymore if it’s really FTA plus 10%, and the whole point is taking down barriers to trade, so if you are already at a level of zero percentage, you don’t have anything to give away… so the option really is “sit there and take it” or “retaliate”
He doesn’t use tariffs as a business tool, he uses them to badger other countries political policy (which is sailing very closely to legality)
For example…. He complained about Europe and Japan not buying enough US built cars… bloody huge cars are really suitable for our roads, aren’t as fuel efficient ect ect
With Australia it’s beef … doesn’t take into consideration that they already produce more than enough for their own consumption which is why they export, also they can export but they have to provide proof it’s not mixed in with Canadian or Mexican breeding herds… they don’t like that rule!
We… the UK aren’t big enough to “retaliate” so we just sit there and take it and limit the damage
China and the EU are big enough to “retaliate” so let’s see if the EU in kind slap a 15% tariff on in response
I was a bit surprised that the EU did not retaliate and as far as I understand now seem to have ruled that out. Before they were saying they would retaliate and were talking tough. It does not seem to have helped given the weaker UK and Japan got a better end rate. I assume if still in the EU and with a surplus of goods between US and UK in the favour of the US, the UK would be facing 15%. The main losers are likely the American public with higher prices. Adidas have announced price rises for American customers due to the extra costs"
Possibly. Though that’s what the market does, finds a way to provide cheaper goods that people will buy. The market isn’t static. There are always winners and losers from any change.
My Japanese car cost me more because of higher tariffs on Japanese imports. I still bought it. I don’t recall anyone complaining about the EU making non EU products more expensive to buy. It seems to be a complaint that has only surfaced since Trump became President.
I’m not sure there is any law that requires Americans to buy Adidas products. Personally I don’t think I’ve bought anything from Adidas for over forty years. My life didn’t end the day I decided to stop buying it. |
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By *otMe66Man 7 hours ago
Terra Firma |
Trump is doing what he believes is right for the US. He has delivered on many of his promises so far, pushing Europe to increase NATO spending, tackling the trade deficit, and boosting US borrowing capacity. A key benefit of this approach is that it lets him fund spending without raising taxes, at least for now.
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"Trump is doing what he believes is right for the US. He has delivered on many of his promises so far, pushing Europe to increase NATO spending, tackling the trade deficit, and boosting US borrowing capacity. A key benefit of this approach is that it lets him fund spending without raising taxes, at least for now."
The US balance of trade deficit is $71 billion which is about the same as it was during the Biden years. It looks like it's improved if you look at a short term view but that's because it got really bad when Trump came in (reaching $138 billion in March) but has recovered.
US borrowing capacity hasn't improved either with 10 year bond yields currently at 4.4%. This time last year they were 4.2%. Yes there was a spike to about 4.9% in October 2023 but if you go back before then they were around 3% or lower.
The dollar is losing value so I guess in future the figures might look much better though as US goods and services are becoming more affordable abroad and the tariffs will make imports more expensive.
But this could backfire with an increase in inflation, although the US economy is pretty resilient on inflation so maybe it will only cause problems in certain sectors.
Tariffs are a tax on imports. |
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"Trump is doing what he believes is right for the US.
"
Wait what, why would have after being president for four years and now another 6 months or so, suddenly pivot 180 and do what he believes is right for the US?
I find this an extremely bold claim.
"
He has delivered on many of his promises so far, pushing Europe to increase NATO spending, tackling the trade deficit, and boosting US borrowing capacity.
"
This completely contradicts your above claim.
"
A key benefit of this approach is that it lets him fund spending without raising taxes, at least for now.
"
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It’s pretty laughable that the Leftists in this thread are very concerned about Trump’s tariffs making consumer goods more expensive for US consumers and potentially having an inflationary impact on the US economy.
But apparently have zero concerns about UK government tariffs on goods imported to the UK making consumer goods more expensive for UK consumers and potentially having an inflationary impact on the UK economy.
But it’s good that Trump is turning UK Leftists into zero tariff free marketeers and low tax adherents. People infected with TDS will contort themselves to say anything as long as they can say they are “disagreeing with Trump”.
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I looked at the White House "fact sheet" and had to chuckle.
"As part of President Trump’s strategy to establish balanced trade, the European Union will pay the United States a tariff rate of 15%, including on autos and auto parts, pharmaceuticals, and semiconductors. However, the sectoral tariffs on steel, aluminum, and copper will remain unchanged—the EU will continue to pay 50% and the parties will discuss securing supply chains for these products. This new tariff regime will generate tens of billions of dollars in revenue annually and help to close the longstanding trade imbalance between the United States and Europe by encouraging local sourcing, reshoring production, and ensuring that foreign producers contribute their fair share to the American economy."
Apparently the EU will be paying the tariffs, not US citizens and businesses.
I can see that some people might argue that taxes on imports (or consumption taxes like VAT) aren't paid for by the consumer but that's only true if the producer absorbs 100% of the tax. Some producers might absorb some of the tax but generally it's viewed as an increase in costs so the price increases and the consumer is hit.
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"It’s pretty laughable that the Leftists in this thread are very concerned about Trump’s tariffs making consumer goods more expensive for US consumers and potentially having an inflationary impact on the US economy.
But apparently have zero concerns about UK government tariffs on goods imported to the UK making consumer goods more expensive for UK consumers and potentially having an inflationary impact on the UK economy.
But it’s good that Trump is turning UK Leftists into zero tariff free marketeers and low tax adherents. People infected with TDS will contort themselves to say anything as long as they can say they are “disagreeing with Trump”."
It is possible to be on the left and still be a capatilist and for free trade.
I think tariffs are a very blunt instrument and should be avoided as much as possible whoever is imposing them.
Tariffs, at least theoretically, lead to a decrease in efficiency as they cause artificial biases in trade. There's rarely any advantage in producing something at home that in net terms costs us more than buying it from abroad. There are exceptions in critical sectors of course. We might want to be able to produce certain critical things in house, so sometimes tariffs make sense, especially if they are time limited and their purpose is to allow for market adjustment.
Also if Trump derails the US economy it will have knock on effects for the rest of the world. The devaluation of the dollar is already affecting me. As is reputational damage to the US because I sell internationally through a US outlet and some people outside the US have been boycotting the US and my sales dropped significantly the moment he started talking BS about taking over Canada and Greenland. Fortunately things are recovering a bit now as such sentiments wear off over time. But having a maniac in the WH isn't good for anybody. |
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