FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > Israel’s Gaza Takeover

Israel’s Gaza Takeover

By (user no longer on site) OP 39 weeks ago

So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

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By *estivalMan 39 weeks ago

borehamwood

Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

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By *elta13Man 39 weeks ago

LLE

Unfortunately the tangerine in the white house is the only person with any influence.

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan 39 weeks ago

nearby

Starmer and no more white saviours Lammy should keep their noses out.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away"

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

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By *estivalMan 39 weeks ago

borehamwood

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered."
for the americans it's all about money for Israel it's more about land

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered. for the americans it's all about money for Israel it's more about land"

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered."

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that? "

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?"

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

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By *mateur100Man 39 weeks ago

nr faversham

I'd eliminate the problem

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

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By *uckoldDesiresMan 39 weeks ago

Dublin

"I'd eliminate the problem "

The problem is Zionism

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?"

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

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By (user no longer on site) OP 39 weeks ago

It concerns me that if Israel starts moving 2 million people around, even for good intentions, it isn’t going to be long before Labour MP’s start demanding that they all come and live in the UK.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you."

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?"

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

Depends. If we're using the current situation, the violent neighbour is very heavily armed with the most high tech weaponry, has support from the most (probably the most) powerful country in the world. And the country being attacked is poor, starving, has little to no infrastructure left, day to day survival is the top priority. Not sure fighting back would be successful.

What would you do?

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By *mateur100Man 39 weeks ago

nr faversham

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?"

That's 3 times you're response had ended in what would you do... how's about hearing what you would do!!

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

That's 3 times you're response had ended in what would you do... how's about hearing what you would do!!"

Did you get confused?

1. I have said what I would do. On the first time I was asked.

2. I asked 3 times because the person I was chatting to hasn't answered what he would do yet.

Hope that clears it up.

Let's not turn this into another stupid back and forth that no one gives a shit about

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

It doesn't matter what other countries think. From Israel's perspective, their own self defense is of the highest priority and they would do anything that's needed to ensure their safety in the long term.

Hamas tried the usual terrorist tactics - Attack someone they hate and hide amongst civilians. When that someone retaliates, cry about civilians being killed and hope that some Western power will interfere to stop this. Now that Israel showed that they won't give a fuck and won't stop until they decimate Hamas.

Hope this serves as a lesson to other terrorist groups across the world and the people/nations who think that giving home to terrorists is a good idea.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS 39 weeks ago
Forum Mod

Central

The UK should end military support to Israel immediately. Typically, the RAF have been flying most days over Palestine and supplying data and support to Israel. Starmer should have made his statement and refused further support for a country that's accused of war crimes and is still harming Palestinians.

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?"
You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"The UK should end military support to Israel immediately. Typically, the RAF have been flying most days over Palestine and supplying data and support to Israel. Starmer should have made his statement and refused further support for a country that's accused of war crimes and is still harming Palestinians. "

If all of Israels allies followed this direction, what would be the outcome?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?"

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight? "
Considering Hamas, its leadership, have stated negotiation without a gun is useless what option does Israel have but to fight...

Everyone saw what happened the last time Israel chose not to fight back and it didnt end well for them.

But say Hamas were able to complete their aims, the eradication of all the Jews and Judaism, it wouldn't stop there.

Other Muslims would be targeted and so would the Infidels. They'd come after the non believers next, so unless you are a particular group of Muslims it would be you that are in the firing line next.

So what would you do then? Fight or negotiate?

Mrs x

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By *ook321Man 39 weeks ago

Essex

Send me some pics of sexy Israeli wife's

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x"

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief"
When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight? "

Negotiate.

But it's pretty much impossible for me to put myself in the places of either Hamas or Netenyahu. Their aims would not be my aims. And I have more respect for human life than they do.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x"

Fair enough, I wasn't clear your meaning re violent neighbours.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

Fair enough, I wasn't clear your meaning re violent neighbours."
A non violent army would be pretty useless in defending its country, its probably its primary aim. And thats the difference. Terrorism uses violence for the sake of violence. Armies use violence to protect its population, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight?

Negotiate.

But it's pretty much impossible for me to put myself in the places of either Hamas or Netenyahu. Their aims would not be my aims. And I have more respect for human life than they do. "
Thats why you'd be killed by Hamas and their like, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight?

Negotiate.

But it's pretty much impossible for me to put myself in the places of either Hamas or Netenyahu. Their aims would not be my aims. And I have more respect for human life than they do. Thats why you'd be killed by Hamas and their like, Mrs x"

I don't think you've understood the premise of the discussion I was having with the other chap.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

Fair enough, I wasn't clear your meaning re violent neighbours.A non violent army would be pretty useless in defending its country, its probably its primary aim. And thats the difference. Terrorism uses violence for the sake of violence. Armies use violence to protect its population, Mrs x"

Violence is violence, end of. It's victims are just as dead either way. I agree that violence can be justified in self defence, but c'mon Israel sailed past that buoy long ago.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight?

Negotiate.

I don't think you've understood the premise of the discussion I was having with the other chap."
I think i do but if im wrong educate me, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

Violence is violence, end of. It's victims are just as dead either way. I agree that violence can be justified in self defence, but c'mon Israel sailed past that buoy long ago."
So just in self defense then? So like the reasonable use of minimum force, which is the requirement here for self defense because that really applicable in war is it.

So what do you mean?

Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

Violence is violence, end of. It's victims are just as dead either way. I agree that violence can be justified in self defence, but c'mon Israel sailed past that buoy long ago.So just in self defense then? So like the reasonable use of minimum force, which is the requirement here for self defense because that really applicable in war is it.

So what do you mean?

Mrs x"
Not applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight?

Negotiate.

But it's pretty much impossible for me to put myself in the places of either Hamas or Netenyahu. Their aims would not be my aims. And I have more respect for human life than they do. "

What have you got of worth to start to negotiate? If the neighbour wants to eliminate you what could you possibly have that would be enough for them to not carry out that threat today, or in 5 years?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?

This is the problem that needs to be addressed, what do you do.

Give in and move, dig in and fight. There would need to be some level of confidence in your neighbours that support you for sure and you would plead for support if you valued your land and family.

If you had support from your largest neighbour would you confront and take on the threat or would you give up your house and leave with your family?

What would you do?

I would conclude as you do, that fighting back would not be successful.

But that leaves a void, unless fighting stops. What happens next, should you stop fighting or should you continue to an inevitable end? Baring in mind total destruction of you is the end game?

Negotiate or fight?

Negotiate.

But it's pretty much impossible for me to put myself in the places of either Hamas or Netenyahu. Their aims would not be my aims. And I have more respect for human life than they do.

What have you got of worth to start to negotiate? If the neighbour wants to eliminate you what could you possibly have that would be enough for them to not carry out that threat today, or in 5 years?"

I have no experience in negotiations like this. I don't know what they could possibly give that would be enough. I think they're doomed to be killed/moved somewhere else, unless the internal community steps in.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

This is what many people who think there is a peaceful solution struggle to grasp. They still talk like it's a battle for territory. It hasn't been that for a long time. Hamas wants death and destruction for Israel. Negotiations don't work with them.

The "international community" isn't even able to convince Hamas to release the hostages. How exactly are they going to guarantee Israel's safety no matter what the proposed peaceful solution is?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

I don't think proportionality is a valid strategy when it comes to self defense. If my family is in danger, I would want to do everything to eliminate that danger, not counting exactly how many people I need to take down just for a sense of proportionality.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *leasure domMan 39 weeks ago

Edinburgh

We bombed the Serbs to prevent genocide and ethnic cleansing, but of course they hadn't captured policy in Washington and London.

Hypocrisy and exceptionalism.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Fair enough, but expect to be held to account by the international community when the dust has settled. That's why we have The Hague. Israel pursues it's tormentors from WWII to this very day.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

Fair enough, but expect to be held to account by the international community when the dust has settled. That's why we have The Hague. Israel pursues it's tormentors from WWII to this very day."

I have a lot more confidence and hope on the international community than me

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By *hagTonightMan 39 weeks ago

From the land of haribos.

[Removed by poster at 09/08/25 10:49:39]

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By *hagTonightMan 39 weeks ago

From the land of haribos.

With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

Fair enough, but expect to be held to account by the international community when the dust has settled. That's why we have The Hague. Israel pursues it's tormentors from WWII to this very day.

I have a lot more confidence and hope on the international community than me

Sorry, typo

*You have

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Fair enough, but expect to be held to account by the international community when the dust has settled. That's why we have The Hague. Israel pursues it's tormentors from WWII to this very day.

I have a lot more confidence and hope on the international community than me

Sorry, typo

*You have"

Let's see. The wheels of international justice turn slowly, but they do keep turning.

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

Fair enough, but expect to be held to account by the international community when the dust has settled. That's why we have The Hague. Israel pursues it's tormentors from WWII to this very day.

I have a lot more confidence and hope on the international community than me

Sorry, typo

*You have

Let's see. The wheels of international justice turn slowly, but they do keep turning."

When was the last time a country was punished for committing mass killings? Do you think China will ever be held in account for their treatment of the Uyghurs? Will the middle eastern countries be held in account for having death penalty for gays?

The only time I have seen such a thing happen is when the winners of a war punish the losers for the atrocities the losers have committed. Except for the occasional strongly worded condemnation, Geopolitics has always been about power and self-interest. It is rarely about morals.

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too."
So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

As for the infrastructure. The buildings are being destroyed because unless the Israelis do this Hamas will booby trap ever building and for Israel to clear damaged buildings will take an insufferable toll on Israeli personnel and the time it would take to check each building knowing this just makes it more expedient to raise these buildings to the ground.

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too."

Should the west help to facilitate the mass slaughter of innocent men women and children even more?

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By *ulie.your. bottom. slutTV/TS 39 weeks ago

Near Glasgow

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

Should the west help to facilitate the mass slaughter of innocent men women and children even more?"

I said previously here that the Palestinians will be driven from Gaza and West Bank in the next 10 years, maybe sooner. All part of the greater Israel project.

It was the current Israeli government's plan all along. Those shocked by Netanyahu statement last week didn't read the tea leaves.

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

Should the west help to facilitate the mass slaughter of innocent men women and children even more?"
Maybe they shouldn't hide terrorists, harbouring them in their homes, they might stay out of harms way then, Mrs x

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By *uddy laneMan 39 weeks ago

dudley

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out."

If they did take control, I would assume Egypt would be less prejudice towards the Palestinians.

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By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan 39 weeks ago

nearby

[Removed by poster at 09/08/25 12:38:38]

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

Should the west help to facilitate the mass slaughter of innocent men women and children even more?Maybe they shouldn't hide terrorists, harbouring them in their homes, they might stay out of harms way then, Mrs x"

Naive. If Hamas turn up bristling with guns, what do you expect people to say and do? They have no choice whatever their political leanings.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x"

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

That's right, those babies getting bombed and starved need to take a good long look at themselves as the last flicker of life leaves them.

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

That's right, those babies getting bombed and starved need to take a good long look at themselves as the last flicker of life leaves them."
Thats the problem with emotive responses, they just deal with feelings not facts, your response is quite crass really. Nobody says its the babies fault, it clearly isn't. It's the parents, they could choose to leave the warzone but due to support for a terrorist regime or an theological idea that their children will be rewarded in Paradise they choose to obey Hamas's calls to stay put.

You know this is think but refuse to acknowledge this as it does not suit your narrative or ideological persuasion.

If you have anything sensible to discuss that would be great, otherwise you bring little to this debate,

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

That's right, those babies getting bombed and starved need to take a good long look at themselves as the last flicker of life leaves them. Thats the problem with emotive responses, they just deal with feelings not facts, your response is quite crass really. Nobody says its the babies fault, it clearly isn't. It's the parents, they could choose to leave the warzone but due to support for a terrorist regime or an theological idea that their children will be rewarded in Paradise they choose to obey Hamas's calls to stay put.

You know this is think but refuse to acknowledge this as it does not suit your narrative or ideological persuasion.

If you have anything sensible to discuss that would be great, otherwise you bring little to this debate,

Mrs x"

"It's the parents, they could choose to leave the warzone but due to support for a terrorist regime or an theological idea that their children will be rewarded in Paradise they choose to obey Hamas's calls to stay put."

I wonder if you or anyone who thinks this kind of bullshit will one day have a moment of realisation that their support and enthusiasm for the mass killings of innocent people was misplaced.

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

I wonder if you or anyone who thinks this kind of bullshit will one day have a moment of realisation that their support and enthusiasm for the mass killings of innocent people was misplaced. "

Did you think that your support and enthusiasm for terrorist groups were misplaced when October 7 happened?

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By (user no longer on site) OP 39 weeks ago

This whole Israel Gaza situation to me feels like France out of the blue invades the English south coast and murders a few thousand innocent civilians who were just going quietly about their business. Then England strikes back and the French go on a massive bleat and demand to know why England isn’t feeding French people and giving them aid etc.

Or put another way expecting the British to send aid to Nazi Germany at the same time as the Nazis were desperately trying to invade the UK.

It seems Israel is expected to run Gaza anyway so they may as well take the whole thing over, get rid of Hamas, and hand it over to some neutral international authorities to try and make a better go of it than Hamas and the PA have been doing.

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. "
Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Just to make it simple, if we say that all 60,000 are civilians, which they aren't, but you can have that for the sake of this argument. And say that the 'death rate' continues at a constant rate, 20,000 deaths per year. It would take Israel 100 years to 'eradicate' everyone in Gaza.

Just think about that when using these huge, emotive terms. How ridiculous your statement is, if it takes that long. Israel must have the worst, least lethal army in the world. It gets worse for Israel, as a 'killing force', when you take out the figures of combatants killed. If its reduced to the actual figure of 35,000 civilians then its closer to 200 years than 100.

Just think for yourself, take out everything, the combatants, the region, the history, the religion and look at the numbers. Just the numbers and you'll see how stupid statements like that are. It's pure emotion and thats what Hamas wants, dont fall for it.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

When he look at the actual number, tge time its taken to get this far to reach these numbers and collate the other data, throw in some basic maths and you find out how long it would actually take, at the same rate its taken to get here , it just seems a little silly.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"With neighbours with such extreme views, israel have no choice than to take total control, the west is to hamas friendly to see it too.

You know this is think but refuse to acknowledge this as it does not suit your narrative or ideological persuasion.

If you have anything sensible to discuss that would be great, otherwise you bring little to this debate,

Mrs x

I wonder if you or anyone who thinks this kind of bullshit will one day have a moment of realisation that their support and enthusiasm for the mass killings of innocent people was misplaced. "
So thats your problem and your debating style on this matter. All feelings and emotions, no facts. You've not given one shred of evidence or argument as to why this statement is bullshit, not one.

So conversely you must agree with the position of those parents in Gaza. You would stay put, knowing you family, your loved ones, your wife and children would be in harms way. You'd know this because the IDF leaflet drops areas they are about to attack, they send texts, radio messages to warn civilians. So knowing this you'd stay put, come on would you really??

Or would you at least attempt to take your family to safety? I would, I'd do anything to take my kids somewhere safer. At least I would try. I believe 99% of the people on here would try. They like me, would walk barefoot across broken glass if they thought they could take their kids away from a war zone, knowing, knowing it was about to be attacked.

Anything else is just bullshit. So one day you may have a moment of realisation that your support and enthusiasm for the theological ravings of an evil Terrorist group, like Hamas, led to the killings of innocent people in ever increasing numbers. Maybe you will realise that fighting back is the only option when facing groups like this, any other opinion at this time is misplaced.

Awaiting your next emotive response with interest,

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x"

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By *bceddyMan 39 weeks ago

wolverhampton

The west is definitely not hamas friendly. We’re still giving Israel bombs to kill children not exactly what friends do eyy

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind."
See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

I dont know if you have kids or not but if you do then you'll know, like all parents on here, or at least the vast majority, that you'd do anything to keep them from harm. So why aren't Gazan parents picking up their kids, and walking out of Dodge?

If you, or I or the vast majority on here witnessed parents doing incredibly cruel things to their kids you'd be in uproar. If you saw parents give up their kids to traffickers, their daughters up to the sex gangs, fuck them, beat them or abuse them you'd be disgusted with them im certain of that.

Yet here its ok for the parents to do nothing. Thats fine apparently, they know there kids could die and yet they dont even try to save them. So where's your outrage here. If this happened elsewhere you'd be up in arms. Yet im being crass, Israel is somehow targeting kids, its everyone else's fault but not Hamas who are telling the parents to stay put and its not the parents fault that they do nothing and follow Hamas's orders.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

I know you won't answer this, at least not without trying to justify it to the credit of Hamas and the parents, but what would you do as the father of young children. Would you leave and take them from harms way or would you obey the outrageous demands of your theological elite? Just a simple yes or no. Would you stay or go in these circstances?

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

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By *ockle77Man 39 weeks ago

somewhere only we know

Did you really think starmer and lammy were major global players ?

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

Oh I missed the bit about it not ending yet in response to you being upset when I said it was a fraction.

At this rate it will take between 100 and 200 years, depending on how you look at tge casualty figures, to eradicate everyone in Gaza. It gets more ridiculous every time I think about it. It's either 1.5 or 3 per cent of the population, meaning obviously, either 98.5 or 97 per cent of the population havent been killed in this conflict. Hope that helps with your assessment of my being crass. I am only pointing this out due to your use of emotive language and argument that doesn't match with the reality of the situation in Gaza.

Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ophieslutTV/TS 39 weeks ago
Forum Mod

Central

If all of Israels allies followed this direction, what would be the outcome?"

It could potentially cause them to rethink their plans, sooner rather than later. Their leader is causing them to become more of a pariah state, with many of his citizens unhappy with his tactics.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out."

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

And Trump and his Judo Christian evangalist supporters who believe in the return of Jewish people to the promised land for either their slaughter or conversion to Christianity will say nothing..... because......brown skin

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Their also called Arabs and treated like vermin but even Netanyahu can't turn the guns on with Israel.

But as soon as Netanyahu is toppled he's in court and so, to stay out of court he depends on Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich. If you do anything to understand the direction of travel and end of all this read their words and understand Trumps supporters including Huckabee and Hegseth.

Weep, that we are and EU are too week to stop the destruction of a people by the hands of a people we once emancipated from Hitler

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers "
What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x"

Give them time

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time "
Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x"

Trump, doesn't care because their Brown, the world doesn't care because they're Brown.

Netanyahu and his palls are evil.

So it seems are you

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Anyone supporting Netanyahu or his actions now is evil.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x"

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians "
So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

So do refugees look differently just by being away from their homeland. Do black guys become less black or Orientals become less oriental? That would only happen if there was some sort of interbreeding for this to happen. Yet id think Jews kept themselves to themselves.

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x"

Wow!!

If it's one thing about humanity, we fuck!! So 2000 years away from the "levant" is going to render you "different looking" from the Arabs.

And yes black people will fuck white people or vice versa and their children will be darker/lighter!

It's how we've evolved.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x"

Humans can't be genetically from "a place" we're all genetically human

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x"

Sorry, what, pardon?

Do you know the Jewish history??

They fled in ALL directions. They are the most persecuted race in history.

History shows us it will happen again.

They deserve a homeland. That shouldn't be at the expense of an other peoples though.

So a two state solution must be found.

Supporting Netanyahu or Hamas is evil.

Supporting the right for people to co-exist isn't

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Evil.

Beyond evil.

Trying to defend Netanyahu actions

Evil

I hope you watch that screen and see those suffering people

Evil beyond belief

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you."
It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

If you look at the figures for the War in Iraq and the War in Ukraine, the number of deaths per bomb run at around 2.75 for Iraq and 2.4 for Ukraine. In Gaza it runs at 0.49, quite a lot smaller. Are those facts, factual enough for you.

So when you use your emotive language, Israel dont appear to want to eradicate all Palestinians, even the horrendous act of bombing something suggests that this is not their goal or they are just shit at it.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

The fact that you have said that I believe the Palestinians are sub human is disingenuous and I challenge you to quote anything from me that says this. It's also distasteful, given that it was a Nazi slur used against the Jews. So it appears emotion has taken over you yet again.

And I want to apologise because I got my formula wrong before, in regards the length of time it would take the Jews to eradicate tge Palestinians, given that everything remained as it is right now. The reason it was wrong is because I calculated the war had been going on almost three years instead of two.

So given that it would take Israel only 66 years if we used the whole figure of 60,000 to mean wholly civillian deaths rather than the probably more accurate figure of 35,000, in which case it would be 144 years. My bad, but you must agree its still an awfully slow attempt at eradication or genocide.

Mrs x

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Evil.

Beyond evil.

Trying to defend Netanyahu actions

Evil

I hope you watch that screen and see those suffering people

Evil beyond belief "
You are saying a regime, that has the death penalty for someone of your sexuality should be allowed to remain in power. Is that correct? Forget everything else, you think its ok, even though they want you dead for being gay?

And Israel and its leaders are evil for fighting back against such an evil attack upon them, is that what you believe?

Mrs

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By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Evil.

Beyond evil.

Trying to defend Netanyahu actions

Evil

I hope you watch that screen and see those suffering people

Evil beyond belief "

You do know that the what I wrote is what Starmer and other EU leaders have said. There is no place for Hamas, and Hamas should lay down their weapons.

What is evil about that?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x

Sorry, what, pardon?

Do you know the Jewish history??

They fled in ALL directions. They are the most persecuted race in history.

History shows us it will happen again.

They deserve a homeland. That shouldn't be at the expense of an other peoples though.

So a two state solution must be found.

Supporting Netanyahu or Hamas is evil.

Supporting the right for people to co-exist isn't "
You do know your Jewish history then? So you are aware you could not be Jewish and marry outside of the faith? Thats why they remained in small communities, never integrating fully, which is one of the reasons they were persecuted.

This isolation preserved a cultural identity and like I said before most Jewish refugees to Israel have Levantine DNA because of this.

They had a homeland until they were kicked out of it. But some still remained.

There was never a Palestine homeland, no country called Palestine, or King. Never.

There was a kingdom of Israel.

Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Evil.

Beyond evil.

Trying to defend Netanyahu actions

Evil

I hope you watch that screen and see those suffering people

Evil beyond belief

You do know that the what I wrote is what Starmer and other EU leaders have said. There is no place for Hamas, and Hamas should lay down their weapons.

What is evil about that? "

Why would I care about Starmer?

Hamas are a terrorist organisation, but to think they are 2 million innocent Palestinians. Which your conflating!! As every other Netanyahu supporter does

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x

Sorry, what, pardon?

Do you know the Jewish history??

They fled in ALL directions. They are the most persecuted race in history.

History shows us it will happen again.

They deserve a homeland. That shouldn't be at the expense of an other peoples though.

So a two state solution must be found.

Supporting Netanyahu or Hamas is evil.

Supporting the right for people to co-exist isn't You do know your Jewish history then? So you are aware you could not be Jewish and marry outside of the faith? Thats why they remained in small communities, never integrating fully, which is one of the reasons they were persecuted.

This isolation preserved a cultural identity and like I said before most Jewish refugees to Israel have Levantine DNA because of this.

They had a homeland until they were kicked out of it. But some still remained.

There was never a Palestine homeland, no country called Palestine, or King. Never.

There was a kingdom of Israel.

Mrs x"

No such thing exists!!!

Theirs only human DNA

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Evil.

Beyond evil.

Trying to defend Netanyahu actions

Evil

I hope you watch that screen and see those suffering people

Evil beyond belief

You do know that the what I wrote is what Starmer and other EU leaders have said. There is no place for Hamas, and Hamas should lay down their weapons.

What is evil about that?

Why would I care about Starmer?

Hamas are a terrorist organisation, but to think they are 2 million innocent Palestinians. Which your conflating!! As every other Netanyahu supporter does "
What are you actually trying to say? It's very confusing? Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x

Sorry, what, pardon?

Do you know the Jewish history??

They fled in ALL directions. They are the most persecuted race in history.

History shows us it will happen again.

They deserve a homeland. That shouldn't be at the expense of an other peoples though.

So a two state solution must be found.

Supporting Netanyahu or Hamas is evil.

This isolation preserved a cultural identity and like I said before most Jewish refugees to Israel have Levantine DNA because of this.

They had a homeland until they were kicked out of it. But some still remained.

There was never a Palestine homeland, no country called Palestine, or King. Never.

There was a kingdom of Israel.

Mrs x

No such thing exists!!!

Theirs only human DNA "
What? Are you telling my you cannot trace your heritage, your ancestry through your DNA?

I'll give you a minute to think about that and get back to me haha, Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x

Sorry, what, pardon?

Do you know the Jewish history??

They fled in ALL directions. They are the most persecuted race in history.

History shows us it will happen again.

They deserve a homeland. That shouldn't be at the expense of an other peoples though.

So a two state solution must be found.

Supporting Netanyahu or Hamas is evil.

This isolation preserved a cultural identity and like I said before most Jewish refugees to Israel have Levantine DNA because of this.

They had a homeland until they were kicked out of it. But some still remained.

There was never a Palestine homeland, no country called Palestine, or King. Never.

There was a kingdom of Israel.

Mrs x

No such thing exists!!!

Theirs only human DNA What? Are you telling my you cannot trace your heritage, your ancestry through your DNA?

I'll give you a minute to think about that and get back to me haha, Mrs x"
Oh and there isn't just human DNA haha Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

In order to establish who created what generic marker where we'd need the DNA of every person that ever existed and who was alive.

In case it needs pointing out, that's impossible!!

So people have DNA, and we can "guess" when genetic markers developed and where we think humanity was on their travels out of Africa, but that wouldn't be the "levant" DNA or the "Greek" DNA.

Because as we fucked on our travels we didn't care where or what that area was called and even to todays migration "crisis" they don't care where they fuck or where the baby is born only in safety.

So no they won't have British DNA and your supposed levant people don't have anything special about they're DNA only human

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"So it appears that Israel has responded to Starmer’s demands by…..ignoring him and invading the rest of Gaza.

I’m shocked that Israel doesn’t care what Starmer thinks. I seriously thought that he and Lammy are major global players.

But is this the right move?

It seems that Israel is determined to “finish the job” and wipe Hamas out.

Wipe Hamas out???

Their mission is to wipe the Palestinian people out!!

From the river to the sea ......greater Israel and all that

Lol!! I'll raise you West Bank settlers What?

There are 2 million Palestinians living in Israel, peacefully, are you suggesting Israel wants to eradicate them too? Mrs x

Give them time Rubbish haha. And whats with the brown skin comment. Israeli and Palestinians have very similar features, including skin tone, Mrs x

And actually seeing as most of the Jewish people are descendants of refugees from a 2000 years in Europe no they don't look like the Palestinians So what about those Jews who never left Israel?

They are genetically from the Levant. The actual area that includes Israel, so no they are not dissimilar to Palestinians.

Mrs x

Sorry, what, pardon?

Do you know the Jewish history??

They fled in ALL directions. They are the most persecuted race in history.

History shows us it will happen again.

They deserve a homeland. That shouldn't be at the expense of an other peoples though.

So a two state solution must be found.

Supporting Netanyahu or Hamas is evil.

This isolation preserved a cultural identity and like I said before most Jewish refugees to Israel have Levantine DNA because of this.

They had a homeland until they were kicked out of it. But some still remained.

There was never a Palestine homeland, no country called Palestine, or King. Never.

There was a kingdom of Israel.

Mrs x

No such thing exists!!!

Theirs only human DNA What? Are you telling my you cannot trace your heritage, your ancestry through your DNA?

I'll give you a minute to think about that and get back to me haha, Mrs x"

Absolutely you can't trace your DNA!

You can measure it against your maternal or paternal heritage but you can not trace your DNA.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Hamas is not part of the Palestine future, which is supported by Western leaders, including our own.

Hamas can put down their weapons and end this today, or be removed from the Palestine future by force, and with that comes the casualties of their actions.

It shouldn't be this difficult really, but I guess that is the price to pay for letting things develop unchecked, it ends up being a worse case scenario.

Evil.

Beyond evil.

Trying to defend Netanyahu actions

Evil

I hope you watch that screen and see those suffering people

Evil beyond belief

You do know that the what I wrote is what Starmer and other EU leaders have said. There is no place for Hamas, and Hamas should lay down their weapons.

What is evil about that?

Why would I care about Starmer?

Hamas are a terrorist organisation, but to think they are 2 million innocent Palestinians. Which your conflating!! As every other Netanyahu supporter does "

I'm certain you are not reading what I have written in the context it was written. Have a good night

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root. "
You can trace your heritage using DNA,there are literally tons of sites offering this service.

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root. You can trace your heritage using DNA,there are literally tons of sites offering this service.

Mrs x"

Indeed. Everyone a scam!!

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root. You can trace your heritage using DNA,there are literally tons of sites offering this service.

Mrs x

Indeed. Everyone a scam!!"
how far did you mange to get back?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

I will say it again because in this area I am an expert.

You can not trace your DNA.

You can measure it against your mother or father even a sibling.

What genetics can do is tell you if you have blue eyes your ancestors has a high percentage of taking the root through Syria because that marker developed in that region.

What the DNA test does is measure it against the DNA they hold and tell you where the people with similar DNA resides.

That isn't the same as knowing where your from only where the common denominator currently resides.

So basically nothing and a scam

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root. You can trace your heritage using DNA,there are literally tons of sites offering this service.

Mrs x

Indeed. Everyone a scam!! how far did you mange to get back? "

I'm highly qualified in the area of genetics.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 39 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root. You can trace your heritage using DNA,there are literally tons of sites offering this service.

Mrs x

Indeed. Everyone a scam!! how far did you mange to get back?

I'm highly qualified in the area of genetics."

Perfect

Have you managed to trace your ancestry through your your understanding

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"You can inherit a marker from your mother or father that can be quantified

But anything else is a scam. You can not trace your DNA.

You may have markers that occured in certain regions that suggests your ancestors took a certain root. You can trace your heritage using DNA,there are literally tons of sites offering this service.

Mrs x

Indeed. Everyone a scam!! how far did you mange to get back?

I'm highly qualified in the area of genetics.

Perfect

Have you managed to trace your ancestry through your your understanding

No such thing exists.

As current DNA understanding goes it never will!

We need the DNA of every person that ever existed to know exactly how we developed and unless we're about to go and dig up every body that ever existed that's not possible

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"In order to establish who created what generic marker where we'd need the DNA of every person that ever existed and who was alive.

In case it needs pointing out, that's impossible!!

So people have DNA, and we can "guess" when genetic markers developed and where we think humanity was on their travels out of Africa, but that wouldn't be the "levant" DNA or the "Greek" DNA.

Because as we fucked on our travels we didn't care where or what that area was called and even to todays migration "crisis" they don't care where they fuck or where the baby is born only in safety.

So no they won't have British DNA and your supposed levant people don't have anything special about they're DNA only human "
Not true, a quick Google search...

'Yes, DNA evidence indicates that modern populations in the Levant, including many Jewish and Arab groups, share ancestry with the ancient inhabitants of the region, often referred to as Canaanites. Ancient DNA studies have shown that these populations descend from a mix of local Neolithic peoples and groups related to the Zagros Mountains and the Caucasus.

Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Ancient DNA Studies: Researchers have analyzed DNA from skeletons found in the Levant, dating back to the Bronze and Iron Ages, and compared it with DNA from modern populations.

Shared Ancestry: Studies have found that many modern Jewish and Arab populations in the Levant have at least half of their ancestry connected to the ancient Canaanites, according to the Biblical Archaeology Society.

Levantine Ancestry Component: There is a distinct Levantine ancestry component that diverged from other Middle Eastern populations around 23,700-15,500 years ago, during the last glacial period, and from Europeans around 15,900-9,100 years ago.

Regional Variation: Modern Levant populations show some variation in their genetic makeup, with some having closer ties to Europeans and Central Asians, and others to Middle Easterners and Africans.

Migrations and Admixture: Over time, migrations and intermixing with other populations have shaped the genetic diversity of the Levant.'

So Jews can trace DNA to the Levantine,

Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Yes Jews can, but so can most other Humans.

Gemini is confirming your bias but isn't contradicting facts.

Seeing as where the levantine region is most humans leaving Africa would have crossed it.

So it's accurate to say that people living today have levantine DNA

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Ps there's no such thing

It's people, people have DNA and we traveled through the what is now known as the levantine region

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Ask it for a specific genetic or DNA marker that exibits in the levant?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Ask it for a specific marker that is distinct

I'll hold my breath

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"Ask it for a specific genetic or DNA marker that exibits in the levant?

Does something like that exist for black people, white people, Asians..?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

No, l bones are bones, melanin is a protein not a gene

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"No, l bones are bones, melanin is a protein not a gene "

So DEI policies are a sham right?

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

This why rave is a political concept not an actual difference.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"No, l bones are bones, melanin is a protein not a gene

So DEI policies are a sham right?"

No because of history, and division sowed by people like you, people have been instructed to think that their is a difference. In order to combat that making sure that equity gets shearing from minorities DEI is a good thing

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"No, l bones are bones, melanin is a protein not a gene

So DEI policies are a sham right?

DEI policies strive for % representation from each race. If race is not even a tangible concept, what exactly is DEI going to use to get this % representation? How do you know someone's race? Sounds like a comic paradox that the left has cooked up

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By *ortyairCouple 39 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Ask it for a specific genetic or DNA marker that exibits in the levant?

Does something like that exist for black people, white people, Asians..?"
Yes DNA can identify what continent your ancestors came from, Mrs x

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

No it doesn't, we are not American.

All it means is that there's no barriers to people from those backgrounds, that's it.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"Ask it for a specific genetic or DNA marker that exibits in the levant?

Does something like that exist for black people, white people, Asians..?Yes DNA can identify what continent your ancestors came from, Mrs x"

No it can not!!

What DNA do you think you have and then do you think you share that DNA with Donald trump?

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

David Lammy is Black British and his parents are from the Americas but his ancestry is African!!

What do you think his DNA said about him

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"Ask it for a specific genetic or DNA marker that exibits in the levant?

Does something like that exist for black people, white people, Asians..?Yes DNA can identify what continent your ancestors came from, Mrs x"

That's a fair take. It's funny watching the progressives dig a hole around themselves in these arguments. "Race doesn't exist. But we need race based hiring quotas" which is almost as funny as "Gender is just a social construct. Anyone can be a woman. But we need gender based special provisions for women"

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

Only because, people created a difference that now needs protecting from people like you probably

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"Only because, people created a difference that now needs protecting from people like you probably "

How do you protect people if you don't even know the difference yourself? Will you ask those racists what each person's race is?

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

No they'll be the vile people not integrating

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"David Lammy is Black British and his parents are from the Americas but his ancestry is African!!

What do you think his DNA said about him "

These DNA purists have gone quiet

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"David Lammy is Black British and his parents are from the Americas but his ancestry is African!!

What do you think his DNA said about him

These DNA purists have gone quiet "

That's because your last message did not make any sense. Not a great idea to debate here when you are high

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"David Lammy is Black British and his parents are from the Americas but his ancestry is African!!

What do you think his DNA said about him

These DNA purists have gone quiet

That's because your last message did not make any sense. Not a great idea to debate here when you are high"

Go on then! What's his DNA?

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"David Lammy is Black British and his parents are from the Americas but his ancestry is African!!

What do you think his DNA said about him

These DNA purists have gone quiet

That's because your last message did not make any sense. Not a great idea to debate here when you are high

Go on then! What's his DNA?"

You claimed that he is Black. How do you know?

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

I have sight

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By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"I have sight "

Oh wait! So race exists? And I can find a person's race by looking at them? Damn I thought you said race doesn't exist.

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By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"I have sight

Oh wait! So race exists? And I can find a person's race by looking at them? Damn I thought you said race doesn't exist."

So...... because I understand genetics and DNA I'm no longer allowed to converse how you do?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"I have sight

Oh wait! So race exists? And I can find a person's race by looking at them? Damn I thought you said race doesn't exist.

So...... because I understand genetics and DNA I'm no longer allowed to converse how you do?"

No. Because you said there is no such thing as race, you won't be able to use racial terms.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"I have sight

Oh wait! So race exists? And I can find a person's race by looking at them? Damn I thought you said race doesn't exist.

So...... because I understand genetics and DNA I'm no longer allowed to converse how you do?

No. Because you said there is no such thing as race, you won't be able to use racial terms. "

Genetically there isn't, however.....

Surprise....I live where you live!! And unfortunately cunts make a difference of race

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ostindreamsMan 39 weeks ago

London

"I have sight

Oh wait! So race exists? And I can find a person's race by looking at them? Damn I thought you said race doesn't exist.

So...... because I understand genetics and DNA I'm no longer allowed to converse how you do?

No. Because you said there is no such thing as race, you won't be able to use racial terms.

Genetically there isn't, however.....

Surprise....I live where you live!! And unfortunately cunts make a difference of race "

But you are also making a difference of race. You just called David Lammy black. Does that make you.....

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 39 weeks ago

"I have sight

Oh wait! So race exists? And I can find a person's race by looking at them? Damn I thought you said race doesn't exist.

So...... because I understand genetics and DNA I'm no longer allowed to converse how you do?

No. Because you said there is no such thing as race, you won't be able to use racial terms.

Genetically there isn't, however.....

Surprise....I live where you live!! And unfortunately cunts make a difference of race

But you are also making a difference of race. You just called David Lammy black. Does that make you....."

No, you clearly understand nothing, is he black? Yes. Then say it! Is he British, yes! I have no problem with that fluidity! Neither should you, unless....

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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 38 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning."
Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

As for your razor wire allegations, there are a couple of things that need looking at. Firstly, where are you getting this information? Everything you are saying you get from a Hamas source and you thenvquote it on here. There are no journalists in Gaza so they are telling you what you are saying, its just Hamas. God forbid i say you are just spouting Hamas propaganda, like you accused me of spouting Israeli propaganda when I say anything. So thats the first thing.

Secondly when you say there is nowhere to go. Thats just not true. 95% of Gaza is undeveloped, empty desert. Just grab your child and walk into it until the attack stops. Are you saying that these people are being herded to a 'safe camp'? If you are,then by whom? Are you saying the Israelis? That seems very dangerous for the IDF, knowing Hamas hide in the civilian population.

As for the razor wire, are you saying before the attack but after the warnings the IDF set up razor wire to 'herd' Gazans onto a certain route? Come on thats not very smart, giving your enemy a massive visual target that you are in the vicinity and are therefore open to attack. Surely Hamas would love to ambush the IDF everytime that happened.

And how big is this razor wire? If its not a tall fence then one heavy blanket can be thrown across the top of it and you can then climb over it. Alternatively just walk around it, even if its miles long, het put of harms way, do whatever it takes.

Thats the issue I have. Do something, dont just sit there and wait, worse still dont let you kids sit there and wait to be attacked, just because you think you'll all be sat in a nice garden at the end, surrounded by virgins, you've been sold a lie, just get out. Just as a side note, what do the woman get who are killed, do they get 50 virgin lads, I dont know but I bet they dont.

So I know your Hamas propaganda argument about the population having no options but they do. Now I know it would be uncomfortable to walk into an empty space in that environment but given the choice its a safer option. Im aware that to go hungry, without water for a day or two is not what anyone would want, it would be a true ordeal but its probably less lethal than facing a bullet or army ordinance. Then once the bombing has ceased, then make your way to a camp if you can. Now I know some people may die doing this but they will have died doing something to protect themselves and more importantly their kids. Doing what Hamas wants means they die protecting them. When having kids I promised, like most parents, to do everything I could to protect my child. I dont remember anything about having kids so some hairy arsed, murderous terrorist could hide behind them when attack. That wasn't in an of the Expectant Mums booklets I read. Parents protect kids, thats what the issue is for me.

As for 'safe camps' there truly is nowhere thats safe in Gaza. But thats what you get when you hide the terrorists amongst yourselves as a population. So when the ordinary civilians move, so do the terrorists and they are then hide in these new locations. The population should stop doing this, all this does is move the terrorist targets with you. Give them up to the Israelis, save yourselves, do something. Hamas are terrorists they dont deserve anyone's support, especially ordinary Palestinians, who contrary to your belief I do have compassion for.

Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago

Terra Firma

"Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning."

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

Why would Hamas set this up when the situation is already so dire? Why are media outlets publishing images that are clearly meant to encourage emotional responses, and not applying more diligence to materials being supplied to them by "press" controlled by Hamas.

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ingdomNightTimePleasuresMan 38 weeks ago

nearby

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions... "

The parents of these starving or not starving kids were cheering in the streets when Israelis were getting butchered by Hamas. Reap what you sow.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning.Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

Mrs x"

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions... "

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago

Terra Firma

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification."

I understand that propaganda is used, but I'm not sure everyone does and this leads to emotional breakdowns when they have swallowed the source material hook line and sinker.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification.

I understand that propaganda is used, but I'm not sure everyone does and this leads to emotional breakdowns when they have swallowed the source material hook line and sinker.

Sure, but dismissing the source material and turning a blind eye is equally undesirable.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago

Terra Firma

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification.

I understand that propaganda is used, but I'm not sure everyone does and this leads to emotional breakdowns when they have swallowed the source material hook line and sinker.

Sure, but dismissing the source material and turning a blind eye is equally undesirable."

Who is turning a blind eye? I know the answer, it is nobody.

I have a question, what do you want to happen next in this war and what do expect to happen next in this war?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 38 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning.Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

Mrs x

Why are you ranting about the fence when a rudimentary check on Wiki or suchlike explains the purpose, location and specifications of the Gaza–Israel barrier (aka the Iron Wall). A discussion about the fence mesh size is hardly the point is it? Likewise saying "without food for a day or two" when kids are starving is crass and insensitive. You'll excuse or dismiss any atrocity in Gaza, so what's the point?"
Not sure if its a memory issue but you never mentioned the fence at the border. You said ...'These are people herded behind razor wire fences.' This in response to my saying that parents could go elsewhere. At no point did I mention going into Israel. I obviously mention into Haza, thats why I said Gaza is 95% empty, undeveloped desert. Go back and read is my suggestion.

As for the border I am aware of the size and scope of the border fences. Im also aware of the billions Israel spent on the underground barrier that they installed to stop tunnelling g from Gaza into Israel unless you somehow 'magic" up im suggesting that anyone should tunnel free.

It's not crass of me to mention how uncomfortable it would be going into the desert for these poor families but I say again, its the lesser of two evils. You are more likely to die from bullets and bombs coming your way than from going without food and drink for a further day or two.

You say I will not condemn any atrocity in Gaza but again thats not true. I've said anyone committing war crimes should be held to account and face the everest punishment. I've said I dont agree with illegal settlements previously. I think the mistakes made by the IDF which have resulted in deaths are tragic and horrendous but it seems you've missed it when I've said that.

Yet you remain silent on whether you think its ok for a parent to do nothing to protect their child, why is that? It's a simple question, dont even answer it in relation to this conflict. Should parents do EVERYTHING in their power to protect their kids? Your lack of an answer says a lot about you.

Mrs x

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification.

I understand that propaganda is used, but I'm not sure everyone does and this leads to emotional breakdowns when they have swallowed the source material hook line and sinker.

Sure, but dismissing the source material and turning a blind eye is equally undesirable.

Who is turning a blind eye? I know the answer, it is nobody.

I have a question, what do you want to happen next in this war and what do expect to happen next in this war? "

I'd like the war to end and for people to treated with some humanity.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning.Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

Mrs x

Why are you ranting about the fence when a rudimentary check on Wiki or suchlike explains the purpose, location and specifications of the Gaza–Israel barrier (aka the Iron Wall). A discussion about the fence mesh size is hardly the point is it? Likewise saying "without food for a day or two" when kids are starving is crass and insensitive. You'll excuse or dismiss any atrocity in Gaza, so what's the point?Not sure if its a memory issue but you never mentioned the fence at the border. You said ...'These are people herded behind razor wire fences.' This in response to my saying that parents could go elsewhere. At no point did I mention going into Israel. I obviously mention into Haza, thats why I said Gaza is 95% empty, undeveloped desert. Go back and read is my suggestion.

Mrs x"

Your final question is not even worthy of a reply and hence I treat it with the contempt it deserves.

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By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago

Terra Firma

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification.

I understand that propaganda is used, but I'm not sure everyone does and this leads to emotional breakdowns when they have swallowed the source material hook line and sinker.

Sure, but dismissing the source material and turning a blind eye is equally undesirable.

Who is turning a blind eye? I know the answer, it is nobody.

I have a question, what do you want to happen next in this war and what do expect to happen next in this war?

I'd like the war to end and for people to treated with some humanity."

You want the war to end, what would that look like? Everyone just goes back to what they were doing? That is too easy a thing to say, and many do say it and expect that to be the end of the conversation, but it isn't, there are consequences to everything. If an end to the war is not end just a pause, what good is that?

I'm not being pedantic when I say this, but what does the end of the war mean to you personally?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

I was shown photos yesterday of the images published across the media showing children crying and holding empty bowls, begging for food.

The next image was the same shot but a little wider and there were children smiling and laughing to the side. So it looks as though the images were setup.

I have since looked into those images, it appears they were staged and they have been dropped by media outlets.

It has left me with many questions:

What is the actual circumstance in Gaza. All of these questions are now fuelled by some doubt, the propaganda seems to work in both directions...

I don't doubt some images are 'doctored' for propaganda purposes. What side doesn't do this in a conflict. If independent journalists were allowed into Gaza we might get some verification.

I understand that propaganda is used, but I'm not sure everyone does and this leads to emotional breakdowns when they have swallowed the source material hook line and sinker.

Sure, but dismissing the source material and turning a blind eye is equally undesirable.

Who is turning a blind eye? I know the answer, it is nobody.

I have a question, what do you want to happen next in this war and what do expect to happen next in this war?

I'd like the war to end and for people to treated with some humanity.

I'm not being pedantic when I say this, but what does the end of the war mean to you personally? "

Well for a start, the good that comes out of a war ending is that people stop getting killed. That's a result in itself. That apart, the hostages must be released and there must be recognition of the Palestinians right to self-determination. Hamas must be dismantled. I believe Macron has led the way here, and most countries will recognise Palestine sooner or later. Governance of Palestine must include security assurances to Israel and vice versa. Happy now?

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 38 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning.Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

Mrs x

Why are you ranting about the fence when a rudimentary check on Wiki or suchlike explains the purpose, location and specifications of the Gaza–Israel barrier (aka the Iron Wall). A discussion about the fence mesh size is hardly the point is it? Likewise saying "without food for a day or two" when kids are starving is crass and insensitive. You'll excuse or dismiss any atrocity in Gaza, so what's the point?Not sure if its a memory issue but you never mentioned the fence at the border. You said ...'These are people herded behind razor wire fences.' This in response to my saying that parents could go elsewhere. At no point did I mention going into Israel. I obviously mention into Haza, thats why I said Gaza is 95% empty, undeveloped desert. Go back and read is my suggestion.

Mrs x

Your final question is not even worthy of a reply and hence I treat it with the contempt it deserves. "
I knew it haha. Says a lot that you think a question about parental responsibility is contemptuous.

Mrs x

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By *ostindreamsMan 38 weeks ago

London

- Releasing hostages

- Hamas must be dismantled

Do you think either of the above are even possible? If it's not possible, do you think Israel should stop the war if the above doesn't happen?

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple 38 weeks ago

in Lancashire

The only way that Palestinians will be able to have a democratic peaceful future is if the hard liners in Iran for starters are deposed and that country stops using them as fodder for their proxy war against Israel..

Plus the same will need to happen in Israel..

Won't happen in the foreseeable future I doubt..

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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

- Releasing hostages

- Hamas must be dismantled

Do you think either of the above are even possible? If it's not possible, do you think Israel should stop the war if the above doesn't happen?"

Yes, I believe the hostages will be released, at least those still alive. As for Hamas, it's a truism that you can't kill an ideology. Only if the underlying grievances are addressed will Hamas disappear. That's questionable I agree.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning.Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

Mrs x

Why are you ranting about the fence when a rudimentary check on Wiki or suchlike explains the purpose, location and specifications of the Gaza–Israel barrier (aka the Iron Wall). A discussion about the fence mesh size is hardly the point is it? Likewise saying "without food for a day or two" when kids are starving is crass and insensitive. You'll excuse or dismiss any atrocity in Gaza, so what's the point?Not sure if its a memory issue but you never mentioned the fence at the border. You said ...'These are people herded behind razor wire fences.' This in response to my saying that parents could go elsewhere. At no point did I mention going into Israel. I obviously mention into Haza, thats why I said Gaza is 95% empty, undeveloped desert. Go back and read is my suggestion.

Mrs x

Your final question is not even worthy of a reply and hence I treat it with the contempt it deserves. I knew it haha. Says a lot that you think a question about parental responsibility is contemptuous.

Mrs x"

You're posts are getting increasingly childish and petulant, but keep digging.

Reply privately (closed, thread got too big)

By *ortyairCouple 38 weeks ago

Wallasey

"Who are we to say if its the right move or not,Israel live right next door to the place so I'm guessing they have more of an idea if it's a good move or not than anyone thousands of miles away

It's the right move for the arms industry profits. The wrong move for kids who don't want to be mass slaughtered.

If you had a violent neighbour who declared their end game was to eliminate you, how would you deal with that?

That's a good question.

I don't really know. Maybe appeal to the international community to intervene.

Try to provide as much information and evidence as possible to the world to show to show the ethnic cleansing happening real time.

Try to coordinate people to be out of harms way, but that's extremely difficult with little to no infrastructure remaining, people being starved and there being little access to medical care etc.

It's tough because it must feel utterly helpless, especially with not only the inaction of the international community, but elements that are actively assisting the mass destruction.

What would you do?

In this scenario the international community would be your neighbours, and if they provided support to stop the violent neighbour attacking you would you take it?

I thought the neighbours in this scenario were the violent party? When I mentioned "international community" I meant the rest of the world.

What kind of "support" are you proposing that is provided?

Your neighbours are either going to support you or not, those that are violent towards you will not be supportive obviously, or their supporters.

How does this situation become resolvable baring in mind that you have a neighbour who wants to eliminate you.

I don't know. I made some suggestions, but if I was in that situation, I'd feel pretty hopeless. That's not much left of the country, pathetic support from the international community.

What would you do?You are suggesting that its Israel that is the violent neighbour here by the sounds of it, Mrs x

Hang on, are you inferring Israel aren't violent (((

))) shakes head in disbelief When did i say that, of course they are, Mrs x

So what do you mean?

Mrs xNot applicable in war was what I meant to say, Mrs x

The word is 'proportionate'. Israel's destruction of infrastructure and civilians in Gaza is way past proportionate. In the fullness of time they will be held to account for ethnic cleansing and very likely genocide too. So when you use tge words genocide and ethnic cleansing, what does it mean for you? Because for a genocide id have thought it was akin to killing civilians in such numbers that it was considered abnormal during the course of a war. So right here and now, the numbers killed aren't considered abnormal for urban warfare. If anything they are on the lower end of the formula used to calculate this. I cannot recall this accepted formula but someone on here will probably let us know, otherwise I could research this up but I do know, as I've seen it before and the numbers are not unexpected for an urban conflict. Also for a genocide, doesn't it have to committed against a certain group? But it cannot be Palestinians due to the fact there's 2 million of them living peacefully in Israel and nobody is killing them, unless you include Hamas when firing their missiles into Israel. Also ethnic cleansing, doesn't that involve removing a population from their homes to somewhere else. I thought Israel wasn't allowing anyone to leave Gaza so where are they being 'cleansed' to?

So what exactly are your thoughts on these issues?

Mrs x

What do the terms mean to me? Well I suppose we could fall back on arcane legal definitions, but how about trusting our eyes and making a sane judgement? Around 60,000 dead, mostly civilians, the entire place razed to the ground in a pile of rubble. Shooting starving people in the back whilst the clamber for food. Hospitals levelled. My thought on the points you raise are 'pitiful excuses for exterminating an entire people'. Exterminating an entire people. Now im not particularly hot on maths but thats a huge stretch given the numbers. Of those 60,000 killed at least 25,000 are combatants, so that leaves 35,000 civilians. Of a population of 2 million thats a fraction of the 'entire people'.

Now I know your probably going to come back with some emotive thing about that doesn't alter the facts for those killed and you are right, it doesn't but it doesn't alter what the actual facts are.

Ffs it becomes absolutely ridiculous when you then think how long it would take, to get rid of the remainsing 4 million Palestinians in the region.

Only one side wants dead children and its not Israel.

Mrs x

Breathtakingly crass. 35,000 is a 'fraction' of the people. Oh that's alight then. But it hasn't ended yet has it? As for being 'emotive', well yeah watching entire families being hauled out from under the rubble, starving children, gunshot wounds in the back ..... that just might stir some emotion in anybody with an iota of compassion. Some manage to resist mind.See you are getting emotional, that figure is a fraction of the total population and whilst I have always said all innocent lives lost are a tragedy, and they are, they could be mitigated, as I've said before on this thread, by parents behaving like parents.

Anywhere else in the world and you knew of this you'd be outraged by the omission of basic parental care.

Sure you'll avoid this simple question but thought id ask,

Mrs x

You've spouted a load of hysterical Israeli propaganda without a shred of credible evidence - yet you have the nerve to label me emotional!! From your comments you clearly see Palestinians as some kind of untermenschen which is both chilling and deeply ironical at the same time. Shame on you.It's not Israeli propaganda, not at all. I purely asked you to look at the figures. These figures were supplied by you. You dont want to comment on them because, you can get them wrong as an individual but they tell the truth normally.

So yeah, its a smallish number of casualties in a two year urban war. Thats not me saying this but by the accepted figures for urban war.

They dont want to committ genocide because what about the Palestinians living peacefully inside their borders?

Ethnic cleansing is not happening either because where have the Palestinians been cleansed too?

By the way, what I've just said are facts, simple, observable, common sense facts.

Mrs x

Well anybody with an ounce of compassion looking at the images of Gaza would feel emotional I'd say. As opposed to a cold, cynical and unemotional portrayal of the situation as some kind of balance sheet of horrors. Again you fall back on propaganda in your arguments. Take the angle "why don't they just leave"? This is disingenuous in the extreme. Where would the go? These are people herded behind razor wire fences. When they move to 'safe' camps, they are targeted and bombed. Anyway the truth will out in the end as it always does, and there WILL be a reckoning.Thats just not true. I have lots of compassion. I dont know if you have kids, I have 4 grown up ones, I also have 7 grandkids and would be devastated should anything happen to them. So I empathise with any parent that have lost a child, there can be nothing worse. Well nothing worse than a parent who allows their child to be lost, who does nothing to prevent this and thats what I am saying.

Mrs x

Why are you ranting about the fence when a rudimentary check on Wiki or suchlike explains the purpose, location and specifications of the Gaza–Israel barrier (aka the Iron Wall). A discussion about the fence mesh size is hardly the point is it? Likewise saying "without food for a day or two" when kids are starving is crass and insensitive. You'll excuse or dismiss any atrocity in Gaza, so what's the point?Not sure if its a memory issue but you never mentioned the fence at the border. You said ...'These are people herded behind razor wire fences.' This in response to my saying that parents could go elsewhere. At no point did I mention going into Israel. I obviously mention into Haza, thats why I said Gaza is 95% empty, undeveloped desert. Go back and read is my suggestion.

Mrs x

You're posts are getting increasingly childish and petulant, but keep digging."
Haha, you hit rock bottom a while ago and continued to dig, I'll leave that for you. I know you hate the idea but I've some grandkids to look after right now, Mrs x

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By *ostindreamsMan 38 weeks ago

London

[Removed by poster at 10/08/25 13:03:11]

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By *ostindreamsMan 38 weeks ago

London

- Releasing hostages

- Hamas must be dismantled

Do you think either of the above are even possible? If it's not possible, do you think Israel should stop the war if the above doesn't happen?

The west hasn't been able to get Hamas to release the hostages. Hamas don't have any respect for the west whatsoever. In their view, the western countries are just tools to achieve their goals.

About dismantling Hamas, how exactly are we going to address their grievances when their goal is genocide of Israelis? This is why I don't agree with anyone who says a two-state system is a "solution". It's not a solution. It's an outcome you can expect if you could find a real solution which is to get rid of the genocidal groups in the region.

As long as groups like Hamas are still there, drawing arbitrary lines to separate the states isn't going to help when these groups won't respect that line anyway. Not to mention the surrounding countries who are looking for every opportunity to destroy Israel.