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Welsh scout camp
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I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants' |
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I work in the countryside, and a few years ago if anyone was nosey/ mildly indignant about what we were doing, we'd tell them we were laying out for the foundations of a Vegan Cycling Yoga Mosque.
We just don't bother any more. So many people are now relentlessly bombarded by spiteful suspicious poison about humanity..... |
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I haven’t seen the story but I guess we all make mistakes and we can all innocently follow false information if we believe it’s true.
From my personal experience on this forum, it’s clear that some people will believe anything with no evidence and some people believe nothing no matter what the evidence. The wider world is no different I guess. I think people believe what they wanna believe.
But this is the internet age of false information and fake news. That’s not gonna change anytime soon. |
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"Sadly, it is a reflection of our poor media reporting standards and individuals who are social media copycats who have picked a side to emulate.
"
I think in this case the main stream media reported responsibly. Social media on the other hand... |
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"I work in the countryside, and a few years ago if anyone was nosey/ mildly indignant about what we were doing, we'd tell them we were laying out for the foundations of a Vegan Cycling Yoga Mosque.
We just don't bother any more. So many people are now relentlessly bombarded by spiteful suspicious poison about humanity....."
Yep |
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"I haven’t seen the story but I guess we all make mistakes and we can all innocently follow false information if we believe it’s true.
From my personal experience on this forum, it’s clear that some people will believe anything with no evidence and some people believe nothing no matter what the evidence. The wider world is no different I guess. I think people believe what they wanna believe.
But this is the internet age of false information and fake news. That’s not gonna change anytime soon. "
Your last point is what worries me but I doubt this was a mistake in the first instance. |
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By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Sadly, it is a reflection of our poor media reporting standards and individuals who are social media copycats who have picked a side to emulate.
I think in this case the main stream media reported responsibly. Social media on the other hand..."
I have not seen the video but I'm not sure they have reported responsibly. I read an article, that states scouts were visiting the site. I have also read they were a charity based organisation visiting site, and I read the scouts association have said they are aware of a racially motivated attack on the site.
Looking at how information was distorted by people on social media last summer and this summer over migrant hotels, there is a common theme that someone will say the media and police are hiding information, which then snowballs. |
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what's even more alarming is that the people involved in the spreading of the lies decided it was appropriate to film the children who were camping, then proceed to plaster the footage of the minors along with said lies as yet more garbage links all over various social media such as facebook, whatsapp etc.
similarly reform mp rupert lowe filmed some people rowing for charity and then proceeded to bombard various social media platfroms with garbage links about how they were entering the country illegally.
it's clear that this climate of rightist paranoia has gotten way out of hand, largely due to gullible and vulnerable people being highly susceptible to this kind of online grooming via social media videos and posts. it's very sad.
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"Sadly, it is a reflection of our poor media reporting standards and individuals who are social media copycats who have picked a side to emulate.
I think in this case the main stream media reported responsibly. Social media on the other hand...
I have not seen the video but I'm not sure they have reported responsibly. I read an article, that states scouts were visiting the site. I have also read they were a charity based organisation visiting site, and I read the scouts association have said they are aware of a racially motivated attack on the site.
Looking at how information was distorted by people on social media last summer and this summer over migrant hotels, there is a common theme that someone will say the media and police are hiding information, which then snowballs. "
I understand the video has been deleted . |
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"I haven’t seen the story but I guess we all make mistakes and we can all innocently follow false information if we believe it’s true.
From my personal experience on this forum, it’s clear that some people will believe anything with no evidence and some people believe nothing no matter what the evidence. The wider world is no different I guess. I think people believe what they wanna believe.
But this is the internet age of false information and fake news. That’s not gonna change anytime soon.
Your last point is what worries me but I doubt this was a mistake in the first instance. "
This thread has already become a demonstration of exactly what you were pointing out. Sometimes it seems the more division and lies are discussed, the more divisive and dishonest people can become. |
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"what's even more alarming is that the people involved in the spreading of the lies decided it was appropriate to film the children who were camping, then proceed to plaster the footage of the minors along with said lies as yet more garbage links all over various social media such as facebook, whatsapp etc.
similarly reform mp rupert lowe filmed some people rowing for charity and then proceeded to bombard various social media platfroms with garbage links about how they were entering the country illegally.
it's clear that this climate of rightist paranoia has gotten way out of hand, largely due to gullible and vulnerable people being highly susceptible to this kind of online grooming via social media videos and posts. it's very sad.
"
I am concerned about how the future looks for sure |
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"
I understand the video has been deleted . "
and the scores of highly abusive comments aimed at the children are now being investigated. hopefully those that posted the infammatory comments will be tried and receive very stiff scentences. |
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"
I understand the video has been deleted .
and the scores of highly abusive comments aimed at the children are now being investigated. hopefully those that posted the infammatory comments will be tried and receive very stiff scentences."
And then we'll have the free speech brigade claiming people being arrested 'just for a social media post'. |
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"
I understand the video has been deleted .
and the scores of highly abusive comments aimed at the children are now being investigated. hopefully those that posted the infammatory comments will be tried and receive very stiff scentences.
And then we'll have the free speech brigade claiming people being arrested 'just for a social media post'. "
... under the mantra of "protect our kids", while posting videos of and abusing other peoples children all over their sinister online forums and social media groups .... sickening. |
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"So what is the driver behind these incidents that are becoming more frequent.
Why are people reacting so quickly towards anything they deem out of the ordinary?
"
I didn’t read the details of this particular incident, but to answer your question with a metaphor, the more pain you’re already in, the more painful even the gentlest of touches can feel. Seeing a stranger looking at your car wouldn’t usually trigger very many people, especially in a large town or city. But if you’ve had your car windows smashed 3 times in the last year you’d be on high alert to anyone paying attention to your car, even if 99% of that interest is either only perceived or totally innocent.
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"So what is the driver behind these incidents that are becoming more frequent.
Why are people reacting so quickly towards anything they deem out of the ordinary?
I didn’t read the details of this particular incident, but to answer your question with a metaphor, the more pain you’re already in, the more painful even the gentlest of touches can feel. Seeing a stranger looking at your car wouldn’t usually trigger very many people, especially in a large town or city. But if you’ve had your car windows smashed 3 times in the last year you’d be on high alert to anyone paying attention to your car, even if 99% of that interest is either only perceived or totally innocent.
"
A more correct analogy would be not that the person has had their car window smashed, but merely that they are warned every day about car-window-smashing gangs by the papers they read, the people they follow on YouTube and Twitter, and an increasingly powerful and vocal political party. Despite the lack of any evidence for any actual car window smashing ever taking place. |
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By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"So what is the driver behind these incidents that are becoming more frequent.
Why are people reacting so quickly towards anything they deem out of the ordinary?
I didn’t read the details of this particular incident, but to answer your question with a metaphor, the more pain you’re already in, the more painful even the gentlest of touches can feel. Seeing a stranger looking at your car wouldn’t usually trigger very many people, especially in a large town or city. But if you’ve had your car windows smashed 3 times in the last year you’d be on high alert to anyone paying attention to your car, even if 99% of that interest is either only perceived or totally innocent.
"
Is that pain being felt directly by those reacting, or are they responding to it vicariously rather than from their own experience? |
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By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"So what is the driver behind these incidents that are becoming more frequent.
Why are people reacting so quickly towards anything they deem out of the ordinary?
I didn’t read the details of this particular incident, but to answer your question with a metaphor, the more pain you’re already in, the more painful even the gentlest of touches can feel. Seeing a stranger looking at your car wouldn’t usually trigger very many people, especially in a large town or city. But if you’ve had your car windows smashed 3 times in the last year you’d be on high alert to anyone paying attention to your car, even if 99% of that interest is either only perceived or totally innocent.
A more correct analogy would be not that the person has had their car window smashed, but merely that they are warned every day about car-window-smashing gangs by the papers they read, the people they follow on YouTube and Twitter, and an increasingly powerful and vocal political party. Despite the lack of any evidence for any actual car window smashing ever taking place."
That reduces genuine concerns to nothing more than reactions to lies or imaginary events, which we know is not the case. Dismissing them like this fuels the resentment that causes unrest and gives bad actors exactly the narrative they want to exploit. |
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Sadly this has become more and more prevalent - another example recently being Rupert Lowe setting the right wing dogs on a group of rowers raising money for MND research just because he saw a boat in the sea. |
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"So what is the driver behind these incidents that are becoming more frequent.
Why are people reacting so quickly towards anything they deem out of the ordinary?
I didn’t read the details of this particular incident, but to answer your question with a metaphor, the more pain you’re already in, the more painful even the gentlest of touches can feel. Seeing a stranger looking at your car wouldn’t usually trigger very many people, especially in a large town or city. But if you’ve had your car windows smashed 3 times in the last year you’d be on high alert to anyone paying attention to your car, even if 99% of that interest is either only perceived or totally innocent.
A more correct analogy would be not that the person has had their car window smashed, but merely that they are warned every day about car-window-smashing gangs by the papers they read, the people they follow on YouTube and Twitter, and an increasingly powerful and vocal political party. Despite the lack of any evidence for any actual car window smashing ever taking place."
Yours is a good analogy as well, but you can’t say nobody has experienced the car window smashing used in mine.
Listen to The Mayor of London and he’ll say London is safer under his watch but knife crime is up 60%? And a whole host of other crimes against individuals are.
So yes is does matter what news channel you listen to. |
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".
That reduces genuine concerns to nothing more than reactions to lies or imaginary events, which we know is not the case. Dismissing them like this fuels the resentment that causes unrest and gives bad actors exactly the narrative they want to exploit."
We know it's very occasionally not the case.
And having a realistic understanding of the amount of hatred and paranoia generated by right-wing "journalism" and commentary is not what causes unrest. Bad actors generate their own narratives. |
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There were no riots in all of Wales last summer.
I can't see any anti immigration news for Caerphilly, where this scout camp is based, except for this misinformed incident.
It would have been interesting to know whether the people commenting on line were actually residents of Caerphilly, or whether they were sock puppets. |
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By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
".
That reduces genuine concerns to nothing more than reactions to lies or imaginary events, which we know is not the case. Dismissing them like this fuels the resentment that causes unrest and gives bad actors exactly the narrative they want to exploit.
We know it's very occasionally not the case.
And having a realistic understanding of the amount of hatred and paranoia generated by right-wing "journalism" and commentary is not what causes unrest. Bad actors generate their own narratives."
Ignoring concerns, or possibly worse playing them down to trivial / irrelevant works against not for.
It is fuel for the fire as seen on many events that have caused issues. |
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"There were no riots in all of Wales last summer.
I can't see any anti immigration news for Caerphilly, where this scout camp is based, except for this misinformed incident.
It would have been interesting to know whether the people commenting on line were actually residents of Caerphilly, or whether they were sock puppets. "
there was a barrage of these kinds of deliberately false garbage posts on social media last week, being pushed into peoples feeds on facebook in particular, about hundreds of migrants sleeping rough and camping in huge numbers on the mountain in Maesteg. none of it was true in any way whatsoever and it's a worry that social media algorithms are pushing these kind of illegal and inflammatory posts on behalf of a handful of dangerous individuals with a sinister agenda. |
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".
That reduces genuine concerns to nothing more than reactions to lies or imaginary events, which we know is not the case. Dismissing them like this fuels the resentment that causes unrest and gives bad actors exactly the narrative they want to exploit.
We know it's very occasionally not the case.
And having a realistic understanding of the amount of hatred and paranoia generated by right-wing "journalism" and commentary is not what causes unrest. Bad actors generate their own narratives.
Ignoring concerns, or possibly worse playing them down to trivial / irrelevant works against not for.
It is fuel for the fire as seen on many events that have caused issues."
It just isn't true.
If the powers that be ignore the "concerns", they will be criticised as ignoring the "concerns". If they validate them it will be taken as evidence the "concerns" are justified.
Meanwhile the fire is being fuelled by people who don't give a fuck about what's true or not, even if it starts riots, as long as it gets them sone kind of attention.
On balance it's preferable to maintain at least some kind of realistic view of how much these people are really suffering from the things they're "concerned" about. |
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By *otMe66Man 38 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
".
That reduces genuine concerns to nothing more than reactions to lies or imaginary events, which we know is not the case. Dismissing them like this fuels the resentment that causes unrest and gives bad actors exactly the narrative they want to exploit.
We know it's very occasionally not the case.
And having a realistic understanding of the amount of hatred and paranoia generated by right-wing "journalism" and commentary is not what causes unrest. Bad actors generate their own narratives.
Ignoring concerns, or possibly worse playing them down to trivial / irrelevant works against not for.
It is fuel for the fire as seen on many events that have caused issues.
It just isn't true.
If the powers that be ignore the "concerns", they will be criticised as ignoring the "concerns". If they validate them it will be taken as evidence the "concerns" are justified.
Meanwhile the fire is being fuelled by people who don't give a fuck about what's true or not, even if it starts riots, as long as it gets them sone kind of attention.
On balance it's preferable to maintain at least some kind of realistic view of how much these people are really suffering from the things they're "concerned" about."
Divides in society that ignore each others concerns is an issue, although the government and authorities play a role in that too. If there were no events to be concerned about then a grown up conversation that spells out the facts is the correct course of action, not slurs to rubbish someones thinking.
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"I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants'"
The problem is main stream media not checking and being due diligent when following up on midia posts. News papers and TV have become slopy and lazy just using media as a news source without any investigation. |
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"
Divides in society that ignore each others concerns is an issue, although the government and authorities play a role in that too. If there were no events to be concerned about then a grown up conversation that spells out the facts is the correct course of action, not slurs to rubbish someones thinking.
"
I haven't used any slurs.
I have however had rather enough of hearing that the real problem is that people with measured political views aren't careful enough to not offend the shaky belief systems of people who get all their news from single-issue Twitter accounts.
The only people who benefit from that line of thinking are the people who run the twitter accounts. |
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Being the first seems to be more important than being reliable. Speak in haste, repent at your leisure.
The number of times the BBC have had to apologise for their “unbiased” coverage being biased is unreal. |
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"Being the first seems to be more important than being reliable. Speak in haste, repent at your leisure.
The number of times the BBC have had to apologise for their “unbiased” coverage being biased is unreal. "
How many times is that then? And how many compared to other news sources such as Sky, The Daily Mail, or GB News? |
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"I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants'"
If people are deliberately spreading false information, especially if it's to stir up hatred then they should be dealt with firmly in my opinion. It does highlight the importance of getting the actual facts out in the public domain quickly. It's no silver bullet but probably better than leaving a vacuum for false information to spread |
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There's been far too much whipping up of hostility towards people who aren't native residents here by political parties and some of the media. This is most of the driving force for fears and anger that's resulting in public unrest and nasty provocation that can get aggressive.
It's good for nobody.
All politicians should be held to much higher standards |
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"I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants'
If people are deliberately spreading false information, especially if it's to stir up hatred then they should be dealt with firmly in my opinion. It does highlight the importance of getting the actual facts out in the public domain quickly. It's no silver bullet but probably better than leaving a vacuum for false information to spread "
The local police force is investigating the online comments apparently. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants'
If people are deliberately spreading false information, especially if it's to stir up hatred then they should be dealt with firmly in my opinion. It does highlight the importance of getting the actual facts out in the public domain quickly. It's no silver bullet but probably better than leaving a vacuum for false information to spread
The local police force is investigating the online comments apparently. "
Of course they are.
Presumably there are no actual crimes being committed in the area.
Much easier for porker plod to sit at a computer eating donuts monitoring Facebook for potential thought crimes. |
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"I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants'
If people are deliberately spreading false information, especially if it's to stir up hatred then they should be dealt with firmly in my opinion. It does highlight the importance of getting the actual facts out in the public domain quickly. It's no silver bullet but probably better than leaving a vacuum for false information to spread
The local police force is investigating the online comments apparently.
Of course they are.
Presumably there are no actual crimes being committed in the area.
Much easier for porker plod to sit at a computer eating donuts monitoring Facebook for potential thought crimes."
Actually, Gwent is one of the safer areas to live, so quite possibly they have resources to investigate. Or maybe they take hate incidents seriously. Or any number of reasons why they might be looking to see IF any offences have been committed. |
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By (user no longer on site) 38 weeks ago
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"I have never started a thread here before but this story caught my eye
Apparently some locals believed a coach of scouts on their way to a camp site were migrants. They further claimed that the site was protected by police with dogs...the truth is that when it's not used as a scout camp its used by police as a dog training facility.
What are your thoughts on this situation and the ability of human beings to be whipped into hysteria by a rumour?
You can read the story from varying sources for some sort of balance by searching 'Welsh scout camp, migrants'
If people are deliberately spreading false information, especially if it's to stir up hatred then they should be dealt with firmly in my opinion. It does highlight the importance of getting the actual facts out in the public domain quickly. It's no silver bullet but probably better than leaving a vacuum for false information to spread
The local police force is investigating the online comments apparently.
Of course they are.
Presumably there are no actual crimes being committed in the area.
Much easier for porker plod to sit at a computer eating donuts monitoring Facebook for potential thought crimes.
Actually, Gwent is one of the safer areas to live, so quite possibly they have resources to investigate. Or maybe they take hate incidents seriously. Or any number of reasons why they might be looking to see IF any offences have been committed. "
Hmm let’s look at some actual statistics:
General crime rate 1.39 x the National average
Sexual and violent crimes up 0.4% over the past year.
Public order offences 2.13 x the national average
Criminal damage up 849% over the last three years
Shoplifting up 50% over the last three years
Vehicle crime up 26% over the last three years
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Comparison with National Averages (England and Wales):
Public Order: Gwent 13.6, England and Wales 7.2
Robbery: Gwent 0.6, England and Wales 1.3
Shoplifting: Gwent 8.7, England and Wales 8.7
Theft from the Person: Gwent 0.4, England and Wales 2.3
You can find all sorts of statistics if you want to. 😊
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