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Tory MP defects to Reform
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By (user no longer on site) OP 33 weeks ago
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Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify? |
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This reform lot is just another Brexit scenario all over again isn't it?
Promise the earth, fuck off when vote goes their way knowing full well they can't possibly deliver even 10% of what they are promising.
Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom. |
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"This reform lot is just another Brexit scenario all over again isn't it?
Promise the earth, fuck off when vote goes their way knowing full well they can't possibly deliver even 10% of what they are promising.
Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom."
Unfortunately a lot can't see that. |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"This reform lot is just another Brexit scenario all over again isn't it?
Promise the earth, fuck off when vote goes their way knowing full well they can't possibly deliver even 10% of what they are promising.
Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom."
Mostly agree, but what's the alternative when neither of the two main parties fail to tackle the major issues facing our country? |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify?"
That there are still plenty of unprincipled and droolingly stupid people in Parliament. |
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"This reform lot is just another Brexit scenario all over again isn't it?
Promise the earth, fuck off when vote goes their way knowing full well they can't possibly deliver even 10% of what they are promising.
Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom."
Reform will make an absolute mess of it if they got into power you’d expect the civil service to go into meltdown to try to force them out.
It’s all fluff and froth unless they’ve got a whole army lined up to carry out the job effectively, the Tories and Labour can’t control the civil service what chance has Farage got of getting compliance? Zero pretty much will be the answer.
The second that the bobbing on his tiptoes, irritable dismissal of complex problems achieves nothing much beyond a headline, it's chaos. Once he actually has to do something instead of just stand in front of a billboard or wink at the camera holding a pint and a fag, he'd be exposed as the charlatan he always was.
It's nothing but Trump style "build the wall" and "lock her up" catchphrases. |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify?"
2 in….. 2 out…..
still at 5……. |
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"Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify?"
MP defections won’t make much difference.
The biggest problem in this country is the left leaning blob called the Civil Service. They are tasked with implementing the policies of whichever government are in power however if the government tells them to do something they don’t agree with they either say no (and trot out some spurious reason why not) or they say yes and drag their heels so much (while doing the opposite to the instructions) that the policy is not implemented in the length of the parliament.
I seem to remember the Civil Service union even sued the government about policy, while refusing to implement it.
The judiciary are almost as bad, with hugely broad interpretations of the law, particularly in the case of human rights.
The politicians don’t have the will to tackle the above so the government doesn’t matter as only destructive left wing policies will be implemented. |
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By *I TwoCouple 33 weeks ago
near enough |
"Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify?
MP defections won’t make much difference.
The biggest problem in this country is the left leaning blob called the Civil Service. They are tasked with implementing the policies of whichever government are in power however if the government tells them to do something they don’t agree with they either say no (and trot out some spurious reason why not) or they say yes and drag their heels so much (while doing the opposite to the instructions) that the policy is not implemented in the length of the parliament.
I seem to remember the Civil Service union even sued the government about policy, while refusing to implement it.
The judiciary are almost as bad, with hugely broad interpretations of the law, particularly in the case of human rights.
The politicians don’t have the will to tackle the above so the government doesn’t matter as only destructive left wing policies will be implemented."
The old saying " it doesn't matter who you vote for, you still get the government" was that sir Humphrey in yes PM ? |
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"Anybody get the feeling we are sleepwalking towards another Brexit debacle?"
Yes. I’m just imagining Mr Motability Scooter with his Union Jacks on his handlebars moaning about Johnny Foreigner then when we’ve got a Reform government probably working in a factory hitting a button all day with his forehead because ‘he can work’.
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election ."
I suppose it would be more interesting than a by-election. |
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election .
Absolutely!"
Agreed..
Whatever the party they defect from, resign as an MP and put your case for the new lot to the electorate..
Probably the risk of losing their salary is a factor.. |
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election .
Absolutely!"
Fully agree with that but I would also add that if the leader of the governing party (PM) is changed mid parliament it should trigger a general election within 6 months. |
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It probably highlights how many of them don't have principles other than letting themselves get more powerful. It's a party of potential low morality and higher hypocrisy, when you see these defectors leaving sinking ships like rats |
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election ."
Following a stint in the pillories and some rotten produce being hurled |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election .
Absolutely!
Fully agree with that but I would also add that if the leader of the governing party (PM) is changed mid parliament it should trigger a general election within 6 months."
I get the point, but it could lead to a party hanging on to an ineffectual leader for the wrong reasons. |
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election .
Absolutely!
Fully agree with that but I would also add that if the leader of the governing party (PM) is changed mid parliament it should trigger a general election within 6 months."
Agree with the first point but not the second.
All you vote for in a general election is the candidate in your constituency, it’s up to the group with the most members of parliament to organise a government putting whom so ever they wish in each post, having general elections for change of leadership isn’t necessary. |
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"I vote for the candidate representing the party I want to run the country so I think if they jump ship there should be a by election"
Not only that. The defecting MP needs to be charged with fraud, for misrepresentation of their beliefs and fooling people to vote for them.
Return of any salary paid as MP returned.
The party they are defecting from choose a replacement without a bi-election. These defections are neither fair on the electorate who voted for a certain party, or the party that funded the winning campaign. |
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"I vote for the candidate representing the party I want to run the country so I think if they jump ship there should be a by election
Not only that. The defecting MP needs to be charged with fraud, for misrepresentation of their beliefs and fooling people to vote for them.
Return of any salary paid as MP returned.
The party they are defecting from choose a replacement without a bi-election. These defections are neither fair on the electorate who voted for a certain party, or the party that funded the winning campaign. "
That's not how it works. People vote for a candidate, not a party. Candidates stand for a party, yes. But that's changeable. A by-election is sometimes called, but not necessarily.
If you really want them to be charged with fraud, you'll need to take that up with lawmakers. |
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"I vote for the candidate representing the party I want to run the country so I think if they jump ship there should be a by election
Not only that. The defecting MP needs to be charged with fraud, for misrepresentation of their beliefs and fooling people to vote for them.
Return of any salary paid as MP returned.
The party they are defecting from choose a replacement without a bi-election. These defections are neither fair on the electorate who voted for a certain party, or the party that funded the winning campaign.
That's not how it works. People vote for a candidate, not a party. Candidates stand for a party, yes. But that's changeable. A by-election is sometimes called, but not necessarily.
If you really want them to be charged with fraud, you'll need to take that up with lawmakers."
In theory yes, but the majority vote for the parties national policies. |
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By *otMe66Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I vote for the candidate representing the party I want to run the country so I think if they jump ship there should be a by election
Not only that. The defecting MP needs to be charged with fraud, for misrepresentation of their beliefs and fooling people to vote for them.
Return of any salary paid as MP returned.
The party they are defecting from choose a replacement without a bi-election. These defections are neither fair on the electorate who voted for a certain party, or the party that funded the winning campaign.
That's not how it works. People vote for a candidate, not a party. Candidates stand for a party, yes. But that's changeable. A by-election is sometimes called, but not necessarily.
If you really want them to be charged with fraud, you'll need to take that up with lawmakers.
In theory yes, but the majority vote for the parties national policies. "
Do you think the majority of people misunderstand the system that badly? |
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By *oannesTV/TS 25 weeks ago
Manchester |
90% of the Reform party are Ex Tories. A vote for Reform is a vote for Tories.
The last election was won on keeping the Tories out, which was why Labour got in.
Unfortunately, its always a 2 horse race. There needs to be a massive overhaul of the parliment election procedure |
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"Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify?
MP defections won’t make much difference.
The biggest problem in this country is the left leaning blob called the Civil Service. They are tasked with implementing the policies of whichever government are in power however if the government tells them to do something they don’t agree with they either say no (and trot out some spurious reason why not) or they say yes and drag their heels so much (while doing the opposite to the instructions) that the policy is not implemented in the length of the parliament.
I seem to remember the Civil Service union even sued the government about policy, while refusing to implement it.
The judiciary are almost as bad, with hugely broad interpretations of the law, particularly in the case of human rights.
The politicians don’t have the will to tackle the above so the government doesn’t matter as only destructive left wing policies will be implemented."
You really have no idea what you are talking about. The civil service do enact government policy but also have a duty to tell ministers when their policies won't work, and what the legal implications are. The problem with the present administration is not the civil service, it's political failure and a lack of leadership. |
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"Danny Kruger MP, Tory MP for East Wiltshire, has today defected to Reform, the first sitting MP to do so.
Probably the first of many, to save their jobs at the next election if nothing else.
What does this signify?
MP defections won’t make much difference.
The biggest problem in this country is the left leaning blob called the Civil Service. They are tasked with implementing the policies of whichever government are in power however if the government tells them to do something they don’t agree with they either say no (and trot out some spurious reason why not) or they say yes and drag their heels so much (while doing the opposite to the instructions) that the policy is not implemented in the length of the parliament.
I seem to remember the Civil Service union even sued the government about policy, while refusing to implement it.
The judiciary are almost as bad, with hugely broad interpretations of the law, particularly in the case of human rights.
The politicians don’t have the will to tackle the above so the government doesn’t matter as only destructive left wing policies will be implemented.
You really have no idea what you are talking about. The civil service do enact government policy but also have a duty to tell ministers when their policies won't work, and what the legal implications are. The problem with the present administration is not the civil service, it's political failure and a lack of leadership."
Politicians of all parties have railed against the civil service for decades. When you have people like Barbara Castle in the 1970s to Dominic Cummings in the 2020s and everyone in between saying the same thing then you can be assured that the resistance and obstructionism of the Civil Service is a perennial issue. |
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"Personally I think if your voted in as a member of a certain party. Then you wish to jump ship, it should automatically trigger a bi-election .
Absolutely!
Fully agree with that but I would also add that if the leader of the governing party (PM) is changed mid parliament it should trigger a general election within 6 months.
Agree with the first point but not the second.
All you vote for in a general election is the candidate in your constituency, it’s up to the group with the most members of parliament to organise a government putting whom so ever they wish in each post, having general elections for change of leadership isn’t necessary. "
I get that and under the current system you are right. A GE elects a parliament not a PM.
However in the modern world it is a de facto election of a PM. Most people vote for a party, the candidate is (in most cases) just the local face of that party.
Whichever party you vote for is a vote for the leader of that party to get the top job.
Change the leader then go back to the people with the new one.
The Tories should have done it when they ditched Johnson and if Labour ditch Starmer (as is looking likely) they should also do it. |
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"
Change the leader then go back to the people with the new one.
The Tories should have done it when they ditched Johnson and if Labour ditch Starmer (as is looking likely) they should also do it."
No thanks - just remember a general election costs around £150 million to run. Sometimes more democracy isn’t the answer. |
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"
Change the leader then go back to the people with the new one.
The Tories should have done it when they ditched Johnson and if Labour ditch Starmer (as is looking likely) they should also do it.
No thanks - just remember a general election costs around £150 million to run. Sometimes more democracy isn’t the answer. "
When you think about a 20/30/50 billion deficit (or whatever number Rachel decides it is this week) 150 million is a mere drop in the ocean. |
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"that would total over 1 billion on general elections due to tory leadership changes alone over the last 10 years .... nah, fuck that, it's a shit idea"
Really? 
That would mean at least 7 GE's in 10 years.
Was Dianne Abbott your maths teacher by any chance? |
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"that would total over 1 billion on general elections due to tory leadership changes alone over the last 10 years .... nah, fuck that, it's a shit idea
Really?
That would mean at least 7 GE's in 10 years.
Was Dianne Abbott your maths teacher by any chance?"
5 leadership changes and 3 early elections called due to loss of mandate makes 8 ... times 150million ..... your math is shit bro  |
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"that would total over 1 billion on general elections due to tory leadership changes alone over the last 10 years .... nah, fuck that, it's a shit idea
Really?
That would mean at least 7 GE's in 10 years.
Was Dianne Abbott your maths teacher by any chance?
5 leadership changes and 3 early elections called due to loss of mandate makes 8 ... times 150million ..... your math is shit bro "
Leadership changes don't cost 150 million.
3 general elections at 150 apiece was 450 when I went to school.
Adding 5 apples to 3 oranges doesn't mean you've got 8 oranges. However you want to spin it. |
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"that would total over 1 billion on general elections due to tory leadership changes alone over the last 10 years .... nah, fuck that, it's a shit idea
Really?
That would mean at least 7 GE's in 10 years.
Was Dianne Abbott your maths teacher by any chance?"
Seems like his maths lessons were delivered miss abbott, remind me again how much her police officers were going to cost |
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The proposition from _otlovefun42 was "Change the leader then go back to the people with the new one".
There were general elections in May 2015, June 2017, December 2019 and July 2024.
In July 2016 May took over from Cameron without a GE.
In July 2019 Johnson took over from May without a GE.
In September 2022 Truss took over from Johnson without a GE.
In October 2022 Sunak took over from Truss without a GE.
Therefore according to the proposition there could have been four additional general elections in the past decade.
The cost to the tax payer of the 2019 election was only released this year and according to gov.uk it costs £150 million.
So if the proposition had been adopted it could have doubled the cost of general elections from £600 million to £1.2 billion over the decade.
The Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011 complicated things but this was repealed in 2022 so in future if the proposition was adopted then there may not need to be twice as many general elections but who knows, it all depends on how long PMs last.
(Also the FTPA2011 was never really applied as the Early Parliamentary General Election Act 2019 allowed the 2019 GE and a two-thirds majority vote exemption allowed the 2017 GE.)
The proposition still sounds like an expensive idea though.
£600 million extra isn't a massive amount of money over a decade but I can think of more useful things to spend it on. |
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"that would total over 1 billion on general elections due to tory leadership changes alone over the last 10 years .... nah, fuck that, it's a shit idea
Really?
That would mean at least 7 GE's in 10 years.
Was Dianne Abbott your maths teacher by any chance?
5 leadership changes and 3 early elections called due to loss of mandate makes 8 ... times 150million ..... your math is shit bro
Leadership changes don't cost 150 million.
3 general elections at 150 apiece was 450 when I went to school.
Adding 5 apples to 3 oranges doesn't mean you've got 8 oranges. However you want to spin it."
you were the one who said that when a party changes leader it should go back to the voters ergo a general election. own your shit instead of feebly trying to wriggle out dude |
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"that would total over 1 billion on general elections due to tory leadership changes alone over the last 10 years .... nah, fuck that, it's a shit idea
Really?
That would mean at least 7 GE's in 10 years.
Was Dianne Abbott your maths teacher by any chance?
5 leadership changes and 3 early elections called due to loss of mandate makes 8 ... times 150million ..... your math is shit bro
Leadership changes don't cost 150 million.
3 general elections at 150 apiece was 450 when I went to school.
Adding 5 apples to 3 oranges doesn't mean you've got 8 oranges. However you want to spin it.
you were the one who said that when a party changes leader it should go back to the voters ergo a general election. own your shit instead of feebly trying to wriggle out dude"
Eh?.
Yes that is exactly what I said and it has happened 3 times not 8 as you tried to imply with some Abbottesque maths.
Maybe you want to include the what if's? But remember if your auntie had bollocks she'd be your uncle.
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By *007ManMan 24 weeks ago
Worthing |
"This reform lot is just another Brexit scenario all over again isn't it?
Promise the earth, fuck off when vote goes their way knowing full well they can't possibly deliver even 10% of what they are promising.
Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom."
Rather a pied piper than the morons in charge now leading the rats to a fate worse than doom. |
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"Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom."
"Rather a pied piper than the morons in charge now leading the rats to a fate worse than doom."
I don't think the fables ever detail what happened to the rats. They just say that the Pied Piper led them all away. Maybe he took them somewhere lovely, and let them all live happy and fulfilling lives. |
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"Fatrage is just a modern pied piper leading all the rats to their doom.
Rather a pied piper than the morons in charge now leading the rats to a fate worse than doom.
I don't think the fables ever detail what happened to the rats. They just say that the Pied Piper led them all away. Maybe he took them somewhere lovely, and let them all live happy and fulfilling lives."
Surely he led them over the banks of the river Weser?
No doubt he slipped away deftly to one side at the last minute.
A move I could quite see our Nige pulling off... |
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For me the pied piper fable immediately collapsed because I already knew that rats were excellent swimmers so couldn't possibly have drowned in the river.
If I remember correctly the children just disappeared rather than drowned so maybe they went somewhere better.
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"For me the pied piper fable immediately collapsed because I already knew that rats were excellent swimmers so couldn't possibly have drowned in the river.
If I remember correctly the children just disappeared rather than drowned so maybe they went somewhere better.
"
Much though I dislike children, I concede that in Browning's day infanticide might not have gone down too well.
Different matter, now, in the dystopian movie age.
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No matter what party an MP or councillor belongs to and was voted on for should automatically be forced to face the voters who voted them in. They were voted in to represent the views of their constituents.
It is cowardly and more about looking out for them self and not those who they now have betrayed |
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"No matter what party an MP or councillor belongs to and was voted on for should automatically be forced to face the voters who voted them in. They were voted in to represent the views of their constituents.
It is cowardly and more about looking out for them self and not those who they now have betrayed"
Meanwhile, there is no obligation for voters not to chop and change allegiance! |
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