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State pension
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Last year apparently there were more people reached 65 years than 20 years of age. Scary demographics.
More retiring renters (home ownership fallen)
Less retirees with final salary pension schemes
Largest growth sector in mortgage lending is equity release.
Increasing state cost for housing, nhs and pensions for older generation |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me"
Firstly, there is no such think as an NI 'pot' - it's a fallacy. NI is just tax by another name. Secondly, NI covers a full range of social benefits, not just pension. Finally, NI contributions are a pension annuity - you might get 1 year or +40 years pension benefits depending on how long you live. No annuity, state or private, is fair in that sense. |
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"Rumoured that NI will be charged to landlords receiving rent (autumn statement) inevitably this will be passed onto tenants through rent increases. "
Time to reintroduce poll tax. It is people who use ouncil services proportionately,not houses. |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me"
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS |
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By (user no longer on site) 33 weeks ago
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"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS"
I understand that and have no issues with it
The point is that you accumulate 35 full years NI contributions which theoretically would make you 51 if you started work at 16
However you cannot take your pension until 67
So a full 16 years of extra contributions but no benefit to your pension
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By *otMe66Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS
I understand that and have no issues with it
The point is that you accumulate 35 full years NI contributions which theoretically would make you 51 if you started work at 16
However you cannot take your pension until 67
So a full 16 years of extra contributions but no benefit to your pension
"
NI is simply another tax that has been dressed up to make it feel worthwhile. Employees pay NI for every person they employ too, it’s basically just income tax by another name, with a pension threshold bolted on.
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"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS
I understand that and have no issues with it
The point is that you accumulate 35 full years NI contributions which theoretically would make you 51 if you started work at 16
However you cannot take your pension until 67
So a full 16 years of extra contributions but no benefit to your pension
"
I see that as contributing to everything else. You can never get more than the maximum amount so I can't see it's a problem |
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By *otMe66Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS
I understand that and have no issues with it
The point is that you accumulate 35 full years NI contributions which theoretically would make you 51 if you started work at 16
However you cannot take your pension until 67
So a full 16 years of extra contributions but no benefit to your pension
NI is simply another tax that has been dressed up to make it feel worthwhile. Employees pay NI for every person they employ too, it’s basically just income tax by another name, with a pension threshold bolted on.
"
Sorry typo above!! Every Employer pays NI.
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"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS
I understand that and have no issues with it
The point is that you accumulate 35 full years NI contributions which theoretically would make you 51 if you started work at 16
However you cannot take your pension until 67
So a full 16 years of extra contributions but no benefit to your pension
NI is simply another tax that has been dressed up to make it feel worthwhile. Employees pay NI for every person they employ too, it’s basically just income tax by another name, with a pension threshold bolted on.
"
Exactly this, the tax system has become so complicated as has the benefits system.
I was wondering the other day listening to a radio debate about this. How many people are employed by state and private sector just to spin money around in circles. Is this good for the economy, I.e creating unemployment or bad as it isn't really producing anything but complicated administration. |
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By *abioMan 33 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me
A lot of your NI contributions go to funding things like the NHS
I understand that and have no issues with it
The point is that you accumulate 35 full years NI contributions which theoretically would make you 51 if you started work at 16
However you cannot take your pension until 67
So a full 16 years of extra contributions but no benefit to your pension
"
But not everyone starts at 16… which is why there is “built in wiggle room” …
for example, someone who does a levels plus a degree would maybe not start contributing till 22,
what happens if you are not in the same job for 35 years?
What happens if you are in a fortunate position to take early retirement?
Don’t grumble… back in the old days (pre 2006) men needed 44 years to get a “full pension “ women needed 39…. And for those who stayed at home looking children before 1978 did not get any credits at all
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Our state pension is low by European standards.
For instance the state pension to average cost of living ratio is 121% in the UK compared with 155% in the Netherlands, 157% in France and 205% in Spain. |
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"Our state pension is low by European standards.
For instance the state pension to average cost of living ratio is 121% in the UK compared with 155% in the Netherlands, 157% in France and 205% in Spain."
What is the contribution level (NI equivalent) for those countries, and retirement age. It’s reading like UK workers paying more to get less, with deferral of state pension age. |
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"What is the contribution level (NI equivalent) for those countries, and retirement age. It’s reading like UK workers paying more to get less, with deferral of state pension age."
According to google in the Netherlands it all comes out of general taxation.
In France employees pay 6.9% while employers pay 8.55% of the salary.
In Spain employees pay 4.7% while employers pay about 23%.
Retirement age in the Netherlands is 67.
In France 62.5 years.
In Spain it's 67 unless you've paid contributions for 38.25 years in which case it's 65. |
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"Our state pension is low by European standards.
For instance the state pension to average cost of living ratio is 121% in the UK compared with 155% in the Netherlands, 157% in France and 205% in Spain."
How does that ratio work? Not sure what it represents. |
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"How does that ratio work? Not sure what it represents."
I think it's the monthly pension amount in cash terms divided by the average monthly cost of living in that country then multiplied by 100 to give it in % terms.
The data is from an article called "2025 Pension breakeven index: How does the UK state pension compare to the rest of Europe?" by Almond Financial.
If you google it you'll also see the actual cash amounts in GBP. |
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For comparison, in the UK the state pension retirement age is 66.
Most employees (Category A) pay 0% on the first £1,048 a month, then 8% up to £4,189 a month. For income above £4,189 a month the employee contribution rate drops to 2%.
Employers pay 15%.
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"How does that ratio work? Not sure what it represents.
I think it's the monthly pension amount in cash terms divided by the average monthly cost of living in that country then multiplied by 100 to give it in % terms.
The data is from an article called "2025 Pension breakeven index: How does the UK state pension compare to the rest of Europe?" by Almond Financial.
If you google it you'll also see the actual cash amounts in GBP."
Is it seriously saying that the state pension (alone) can cover the monthly cost of living? Surely it must also take into account allowances, housing, council tax reductions (i.e. all other benefits)... Otherwise it hardly makes sense. |
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The older you get the more your attitude for things like the triple lock changes 
What many people don’t know is the public sector pensions rose by 16% last two years due to the clause that links them to CPI. While they only cost a mere £50bn a year compared to state pension of £125bn a year , the commitment runs to £49trn currently and no govt can change that
Living longer is damn expensive to the uk taxpayer… |
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Is it seriously saying that the state pension (alone) can cover the monthly cost of living? Surely it must also take into account allowances, housing, council tax reductions (i.e. all other benefits)... Otherwise it hardly makes sense."
AHH... This is only part of the picture:
Methodology
Almond Financial collected state pension data from European countries, including state pension age, the monthly entitlement available and life expectancy.
In addition, Almond Financial then took cost of living data from Numbeo, and the state pension data to calculate the percentage above or below the pension income breakeven point and ranked the top countries from the most pension-friendly countries to the least.
It seems a little blunt, without taking into account all other benefits and entitlements, taxes, etc. According to Numbeo, inexpensive rent is 833/month. So how they get this "cost of living" is a bit questionable. |
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Is it seriously saying that the state pension (alone) can cover the monthly cost of living? Surely it must also take into account allowances, housing, council tax reductions (i.e. all other benefits)... Otherwise it hardly makes sense.
AHH... This is only part of the picture:
Methodology
Almond Financial collected state pension data from European countries, including state pension age, the monthly entitlement available and life expectancy.
In addition, Almond Financial then took cost of living data from Numbeo, and the state pension data to calculate the percentage above or below the pension income breakeven point and ranked the top countries from the most pension-friendly countries to the least.
It seems a little blunt, without taking into account all other benefits and entitlements, taxes, etc. According to Numbeo, inexpensive rent is 833/month. So how they get this "cost of living" is a bit questionable."
Unfortunately those receiving the full state pension are unlikely to get any extra help, you need to have not paid into it, and not have any private pension or savings over 16K in order to get pension credit, which then opens up a wide range of other benefits like Tent, utilities Water and significant council tax reductions
If you are eligible for the full state pension, then you are absolutely gonna need another source of income like savings or private pension to fund your retirement.
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"The older you get the more your attitude for things like the triple lock changes
What many people don’t know is the public sector pensions rose by 16% last two years due to the clause that links them to CPI. While they only cost a mere £50bn a year compared to state pension of £125bn a year , the commitment runs to £49trn currently and no govt can change that
Living longer is damn expensive to the uk taxpayer…"
Triple lock is flawed and (mathematically) unsustainable. They SHOULD have made it: the greatest of CPI, wages or 2.5% FROM A FIXED POINT IN TIME. Not the highest each year. You will end up with "leapfrogging" rates, which cannot be sustained. |
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"Is it seriously saying that the state pension (alone) can cover the monthly cost of living? Surely it must also take into account allowances, housing, council tax reductions (i.e. all other benefits)... Otherwise it hardly makes sense."
It's very difficult to compare systems that have all kinds of different thresholds and ancillary benefits.
Also of course someone living in the centre of London is going to have much higher living costs than someone living on the outskirts of say Bradford.
But I think one can get a rough idea of things by looking at the average ratios and the absolute amounts paid out. Especially if you've spent time in these various countries and have a feel for the cost of living there.
Another point is this is all in a state of flux with retirement ages and the cost of living rising everywhere.
In terms of financing, social security taxes (such as NI) are only part of the picture too. There's not a one to one relationship between NI (or similar) and pensions.
There's an argument for scrapping NI altogether and paying for the state pension out of general taxation but many politicians on the right would vote against this as they like the fact that the rate drops if you have income above £4,189 a month.
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Other ideas are universal basic income (UBI) and negative income tax (NIT).
These could massively simplify the tax and benefit system in theory and possibly produce efficiencies as a result.
But I've not looked into these in any depth yet so don't really have any idea of their practicality. |
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"A friend of mine is 68, receiving full state pension (still working)
To qualify for full state pension you need 35 full years contributions
My friend left skool at 15 and has worked and contributed for 52 years
35 from 52 leaves 17 years full NI contributions that in his pension he gets nothing for
Where do those contributions go ?
How many people are in a similar state
I assume it just goes to the treasury,
Maybe someone on here might be able to tell me"
The extra contributions go into the big tax pot to be used for a variety of things. This is the same as when your still doing your 35 years contributions. Contributing more than 35 years does not benefit you in terms of the state pension you will receive. However contributing less than 35 years will negatively affect the state pension you receive. Thing is, if you give up work just because you have done your 35 years, you would most likely be worse off overall |
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By *otMe66Man 33 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Other ideas are universal basic income (UBI) and negative income tax (NIT).
These could massively simplify the tax and benefit system in theory and possibly produce efficiencies as a result.
But I've not looked into these in any depth yet so don't really have any idea of their practicality."
If you do look into UBI and find something that isn't pie in the sky wishful thinking from a 5 year olds day dreams, I would love to hear it. |
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By the way I think the reason why the cost of living numbers in the data from Almond Financial are so low is that ...
"The data has been calculated on the basis that the majority of pensioners in these countries are mortgage or rent-free."
Which makes sense as the target audience for this company will likely all be in this position.
Estimates of people who rely more or less entirely on state pension vary from 13% to 18% with single people and women being in the worst positions.
With most private pensions moving from defined benefits to defined contributions, many old people are likely to get relatively poorer over time. I saw one estimate that 28% of people in their mid 50's will be entirely dependent on the state pension by the time they qualify.
So the triple-lock still makes sense. Yes, it's extremely expensive but do we really want millions of people to end their lives in destitution?
Means testing is one option but this will be resisted by the right as many old people vote for the right.
I suspect the income tax threshold will track the basic pension in future. Then eventually income tax will go up to claw back money from pensioners with private pensions or other forms of income.
Demographic shifts are in play and this is one reason why regular immigration is a good thing despite it being politically out of favour.
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It's the lack of transparency and changes in rules that annoy me. I like many others will receive a full state pension but the way it was originally set up was flawed. It assumes a growth in the working population to pay for the retirees but that's unsustainable. Hence the push for private pensions and offered tax relief to encourage folks to use this vehicle. Then governments raid those funds by taxation so their value lowers then your taxed at the end (you've received tax relief so I suppose some of that is fair). But taking the state pension that's wrong.
I'm starting to think the Australian model (if I understand it correctly) is fairer. If you have more than 16k in any kind of asset you get nothing so you are encouraged to save. You receive no special tax relief along the way but consequently you're not taxed on it when you draw on it |
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1,013 of the UK’s 6,400 final salary workplace schemes remain fully open to employees.
This is 200 schemes fewer than one year ago.
The reduction means that in the last 12 months alone around 400,000 fewer employees have access to the generous retirement plans. (Feb 2025 figs). Currently 3.73 million people out of a 30 million odd working population are actively contributing via employer contribution into these schemes.
The other 27 million odd working population presumably in money purchase schemes and money purchase auto enrolment. These schemes will be paying out far less. The average personal pension fund value is £31,000 - £2k a year annuity at best. ( current 7.6% level annuity at age 65).
Looking like tough times ahead for many, coupled with a deferred state pension and tax free isa savings likely under threat at some point.
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They just need to remove the tax threshold now or raise it to the annual minimum wage