FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > ID Cards
ID Cards
Jump to: Newest in thread
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Back on the agenda - good idea or not? I think they are good and should be compulsory for general day to day activities so not having one is difficult. Provided that they are secure and the government can be trusted to keep the data safe. And there lies the problem." Seeing airport drones around Europe this week, airport passenger systems hacked etc, the issue of rogue actors targeting them is, presumably, quite high. I think they're going to be more read-only, compared with the NHS app is | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Good to see that the anti-fascist Left are busying themselves turning the UK into Nazi Germany. Papiere, Bitte!" "show us your papers" Digital ID's haven't stopped illegals entering EU countries that have them, What's next in their quest for total control, digital money ? Ah but that's just another crazy conspiracy theory  | |||
" What's next in their quest for total control, digital money ? Ah but that's just another crazy conspiracy theory "That will definitely happen at some point. Lots of advantages in that for the tax man tbf. If of course you’ve got nothing to hide… | |||
| |||
"A socialist tool to curtail our liberties and impose big brother control over the population. It should be resisted by everybody." They say its to control the illegal immigrants, Who already break the law entering illegally and with no ID, If they do work it will be for cash in hand jobs with no ID required so how are they going to police that ? why do I have to have one ? | |||
| |||
"What will they be used for." Whatever the government (and any random police constable) decides to use them for. | |||
| |||
| |||
"I use my passport already as digital ID. Wouldn't make much difference to me. " I use my passport already as digital ID Why do I need another form of ID | |||
| |||
"It has fuck all to do with deterring illegals he could stop them tomorrow quite easily" How? | |||
| |||
| |||
"It has fuck all to do with deterring illegals he could stop them tomorrow quite easily How?" By doing whatever it is the multiple safe countries the migrants pass through to get here are doing | |||
 roll on the next election. The countries gone backwards 20 years. | |||
"It has fuck all to do with deterring illegals he could stop them tomorrow quite easily How? By doing whatever it is the multiple safe countries the migrants pass through to get here are doing " Looks like they are letting them go to where they want to go to me. So if that’s the UK, how do we stop that? | |||
"It has fuck all to do with deterring illegals he could stop them tomorrow quite easily How? By doing whatever it is the multiple safe countries the migrants pass through to get here are doing Looks like they are letting them go to where they want to go to me. So if that’s the UK, how do we stop that?" By removing the reason they pass through multiple safe countries to get here, last I checked France wasn’t a war torn county yet they risk floating ower here on a dingy for whatever reason they do | |||
"It has fuck all to do with deterring illegals he could stop them tomorrow quite easily How? By doing whatever it is the multiple safe countries the migrants pass through to get here are doing Looks like they are letting them go to where they want to go to me. So if that’s the UK, how do we stop that? By removing the reason they pass through multiple safe countries to get here, last I checked France wasn’t a war torn county yet they risk floating ower here on a dingy for whatever reason they do " Right so you want to remove the reason they want to come here without knowing what the reason is? | |||
| |||
"It has fuck all to do with deterring illegals he could stop them tomorrow quite easily How? By doing whatever it is the multiple safe countries the migrants pass through to get here are doing Looks like they are letting them go to where they want to go to me. So if that’s the UK, how do we stop that? By removing the reason they pass through multiple safe countries to get here, last I checked France wasn’t a war torn county yet they risk floating ower here on a dingy for whatever reason they do Right so you want to remove the reason they want to come here without knowing what the reason is?" Thought it be obvious without saying that we the only country stupid enough to give the fuckers owt ha | |||
| |||
| |||
"The Do not introduce Digital ID cards petition has over 230000 signatures " Sounds like people are protesting against something that is as yet undefined, without waiting to hear any details that might address their concerns. There must be some word for that. | |||
| |||
"Good to see that the anti-fascist Left are busying themselves turning the UK into Nazi Germany. Papiere, Bitte! "show us your papers" Digital ID's haven't stopped illegals entering EU countries that have them, What's next in their quest for total control, digital money ? Ah but that's just another crazy conspiracy theory "Of course, it won't do anything for them here, either. Just seems like a colossal waste of money and I hope the public rejects it, like the last time it was tried | |||
| |||
# authoritarian creep | |||
"Back on the agenda - good idea or not? I think they are good and should be compulsory for general day to day activities so not having one is difficult. Provided that they are secure and the government can be trusted to keep the data safe. And there lies the problem." bad idea. As with any Governement computer based system, it will cost billions. It will also do absolutely nothing to stop illegal immigrants landing in the beaches (France and Italy have ID cards, has done nothing to stop illegal immigration). It will also not do anything to stop the black market work force as those employing people on the black market already do not check ability to work. It will also not stop people accessing the NHS as no A&E would turn people away if they didn’t have an ID card. Look at the amount of money foreign people owe the NHS for treatment that is never recovered! Anything Tony Bliar is a fan of, is normally the opposite of what the majority of people want! He is a control freak and is currently controlling the very weak Labour leadership. This is either a massive distraction from the Morgan McSweeny scandal (perfect timing) and/or yet more evidence that Bliar is continuing to run the Labour Party from his ivory tower. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Come in four colours apparently Bronze for the ‘Benefit scrounging scumbags’ Silver for hard working ‘Middle England’ who practically keep the country afloat all on their own you know. Gold for those noticeably better off than Middle England Platinum for the tax dodging offshore elite " There's also an unspoken 'Black Card' just like Nando's. Invitation only. Allows you to drive sheep across London Bridge, access to Blackpool Pleasure Beach, free Fish & Chips from *any* chippy on a Friday, and also unlimited trips to France but only by small boat. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? " You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring. | |||
"If they are a legal requirement, we must all have one, not like a passport which is requested for a personal purpose. What will be the punishment for not having one, and refusing to have one, and I guess all children will have one assigned to them at registered birth. " The punishment will be being unable to access services or some purchases. Could be quite restrictive as it gets established. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring." Maybe. Do you think social media posts threatening to kill the prime minister are acceptable & should go unpunished though? Or indeed, death threats against anybody? Clearly there are ‘hurty words’, then there are notches above that. Anything that encourages more online responsibility, instead of the cyber Wild West we currently have to endure, I’m in favour of. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? " I am ok with using ID cards for logistics like employment and healthcare. But asking people to attach he IDs to social media account is just setting up path to authoritarianism. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring. Maybe. Do you think social media posts threatening to kill the prime minister are acceptable & should go unpunished though? Or indeed, death threats against anybody? Clearly there are ‘hurty words’, then there are notches above that. Anything that encourages more online responsibility, instead of the cyber Wild West we currently have to endure, I’m in favour of. " You have taken a stance that all should be surveilled on the off chance that someone might not tow the line and break the law. What you are suggesting is the very reason people are against ID cards, and you have shown how an ID card can go from a simple form of identity to a tool that manages the masses. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring. Maybe. Do you think social media posts threatening to kill the prime minister are acceptable & should go unpunished though? Or indeed, death threats against anybody? Clearly there are ‘hurty words’, then there are notches above that. Anything that encourages more online responsibility, instead of the cyber Wild West we currently have to endure, I’m in favour of. You have taken a stance that all should be surveilled on the off chance that someone might not tow the line and break the law. What you are suggesting is the very reason people are against ID cards, and you have shown how an ID card can go from a simple form of identity to a tool that manages the masses." Maybe the masses need managing, looking at the bin fire that is Social Media at the moment? You have to ask yourself more broadly what kind of society you want. People are reading this kind of poison in their droves & it is becoming more normalised. I want a better society than Social bloody Media is currently delivering to us. If ID cards could be utilised to make people grow up a bit & act more responsibly, I’d be in favour of that generally. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring. Maybe. Do you think social media posts threatening to kill the prime minister are acceptable & should go unpunished though? Or indeed, death threats against anybody? Clearly there are ‘hurty words’, then there are notches above that. Anything that encourages more online responsibility, instead of the cyber Wild West we currently have to endure, I’m in favour of. You have taken a stance that all should be surveilled on the off chance that someone might not tow the line and break the law. What you are suggesting is the very reason people are against ID cards, and you have shown how an ID card can go from a simple form of identity to a tool that manages the masses. " It's not just that the government has that data, it's also the private companies who actually run it on behalf of the government. I don't many people in government, I trust less in Palantir, Black Rock, etc. I read a good quote yesterday on this. Those people saying "if you've nothing to hide..." or similar, should be banned from having curtains. It made me laugh anyway. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring. Maybe. Do you think social media posts threatening to kill the prime minister are acceptable & should go unpunished though? Or indeed, death threats against anybody? Clearly there are ‘hurty words’, then there are notches above that. Anything that encourages more online responsibility, instead of the cyber Wild West we currently have to endure, I’m in favour of. You have taken a stance that all should be surveilled on the off chance that someone might not tow the line and break the law. What you are suggesting is the very reason people are against ID cards, and you have shown how an ID card can go from a simple form of identity to a tool that manages the masses. Maybe the masses need managing, looking at the bin fire that is Social Media at the moment? You have to ask yourself more broadly what kind of society you want. People are reading this kind of poison in their droves & it is becoming more normalised. I want a better society than Social bloody Media is currently delivering to us. If ID cards could be utilised to make people grow up a bit & act more responsibly, I’d be in favour of that generally. " Every law, tool, agency, that has ever been enacted to "protect people" has been misused almost from the instance of it's creation. Anti-terror laws being used to discover if people lived in the correct post code for the school their kids attend etc. etc. I'd rather not give the "authorities" another tool to misuse/abuse, unless it can be shown to have a real use, that something else can't achieve. Monitoring social media is not it! | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I’m not thinking about an authoritarian government banning all criticism of ‘The Party’ here, I’m thinking it could stop people generally being really nasty online towards other individuals (serious personal threats & abuse etc) as easily as is currently the case & people becoming a little more responsible for what they are putting out there if they know their ID is attached to it? You are drifting towards Chinese social scoring. Maybe. Do you think social media posts threatening to kill the prime minister are acceptable & should go unpunished though? Or indeed, death threats against anybody? Clearly there are ‘hurty words’, then there are notches above that. Anything that encourages more online responsibility, instead of the cyber Wild West we currently have to endure, I’m in favour of. You have taken a stance that all should be surveilled on the off chance that someone might not tow the line and break the law. What you are suggesting is the very reason people are against ID cards, and you have shown how an ID card can go from a simple form of identity to a tool that manages the masses. Maybe the masses need managing, looking at the bin fire that is Social Media at the moment? You have to ask yourself more broadly what kind of society you want. People are reading this kind of poison in their droves & it is becoming more normalised. I want a better society than Social bloody Media is currently delivering to us. If ID cards could be utilised to make people grow up a bit & act more responsibly, I’d be in favour of that generally. " People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? | |||
"If they are a legal requirement, we must all have one, not like a passport which is requested for a personal purpose. What will be the punishment for not having one, and refusing to have one, and I guess all children will have one assigned to them at registered birth. " Everyone is already issued a National Insurance number, we don't need anything else. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"I use my passport already as digital ID. Wouldn't make much difference to me. I use my passport already as digital ID Why do I need another form of ID " People who don't have a passport can use the ID. Not everyone travels abroad. I haven't seen the cost of the new ID yet. If it's compulsory I think it should be free, or a nominal fee. | |||
" Everyone is already issued a National Insurance number, we don't need anything else." However these aren’t tied to biometric data so it is too easy to use someone else’s. | |||
" It's not just that the government has that data, it's also the private companies who actually run it on behalf of the government. I don't many people in government, I trust less in Palantir, Black Rock, etc. " you've already handed over masses of data to private companies. you're device is likely stuffed full of various kinds of tracking cookies etc. companies that undertake coding usually have contractual rights to use data that is accessed by the software they've written for clients. basically the government is playing catchup with the likes of alphabet, amazon and apple. it's a bit late to be concerned about this stuff after sleepwalking here over the last 35 years | |||
" Maybe the masses need managing, looking at the bin fire that is Social Media at the moment? You have to ask yourself more broadly what kind of society you want. People are reading this kind of poison in their droves & it is becoming more normalised. I want a better society than Social bloody Media is currently delivering to us. If ID cards could be utilised to make people grow up a bit & act more responsibly, I’d be in favour of that generally. People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that?" Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? The bigger problem I’ve got with this proposal is that it wasn’t in Labour’s _anifesto, which yet again shows _anifestos aren’t worth the paper they are written on & not only that but Yvette Cooper only said last year that ID cards weren’t on Labour’s agenda. | |||
| |||
" People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? " Why do you want the rest of the society to decide what's you are allowed to speak/express? If they decide to ban swinging, would you be fine with it? How about gay rights? What exactly are you gaining by handing over such an important right to politicians? | |||
" People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? Why do you want the rest of the society to decide what's you are allowed to speak/express? If they decide to ban swinging, would you be fine with it? How about gay rights? What exactly are you gaining by handing over such an important right to politicians? " This goes both ways. If it’s all about preserving words & free speech, what’s to stop me making death threats towards you in the street then? Only words, after all… | |||
| |||
" People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? Why do you want the rest of the society to decide what's you are allowed to speak/express? If they decide to ban swinging, would you be fine with it? How about gay rights? What exactly are you gaining by handing over such an important right to politicians? This goes both ways. If it’s all about preserving words & free speech, what’s to stop me making death threats towards you in the street then? Only words, after all…" Because it's a slippery slope. Remember that no British politician has ever relaxed the rules around speech. Both left and right wing politicians have only added more restrictions. Even the ones who complain about freedom of speech being taken away while they are in the opposition NEVER reversed these laws when they were in power. Taking your argument further, why don't we also let government install cameras at homes? We should definitely arrest people using death threats at home too? | |||
"The right seem a bit torn on this. Posts being dug up from various commentators over the last few years in favour of ID cards now suddenly not in favour when it’s ‘Keir Stalin’ introducing them. If Starmer can successfully make the argument they could help irt immigration it would definitely draw a distinct line between him & Farage & maybe even put Farage on the back foot a bit. " I was in favour of ID cards until recently. Now, police overreach has changed my mind, as well as vindictive people who use the ability to report others to create problems because they don't agree with another's view. I would rather social media be pulled than use tools to manage how people interact on it. | |||
" People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? Why do you want the rest of the society to decide what's you are allowed to speak/express? If they decide to ban swinging, would you be fine with it? How about gay rights? What exactly are you gaining by handing over such an important right to politicians? This goes both ways. If it’s all about preserving words & free speech, what’s to stop me making death threats towards you in the street then? Only words, after all… Because it's a slippery slope. Remember that no British politician has ever relaxed the rules around speech. Both left and right wing politicians have only added more restrictions. Even the ones who complain about freedom of speech being taken away while they are in the opposition NEVER reversed these laws when they were in power. Taking your argument further, why don't we also let government install cameras at homes? We should definitely arrest people using death threats at home too?" Yes, agreed that potentially it’s a slippery slope. But we are living in unprecedented times with the rise of unrestrained Social Media aren’t we? …and, assuming democracy survives intact, if the masses aren’t happy with execution of restrictive policies, then they won’t vote for them next time out will they if another party offers to rip up any particularly offensive changes? | |||
| |||
" ...snip... …and, assuming democracy survives intact, if the masses aren’t happy with execution of restrictive policies, then they won’t vote for them next time out will they if another party offers to rip up any particularly offensive changes? " This is highly unlikely, unfortunately. Government, any government, likes control. So once in power (even after complaining about the legislation whilst in opposition) they very rarely reverse this sort of thing. You only have to look how watered down the Employment Rights Bill has become, and this from a Labour, supposedly on the side of workers/unions, government. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I am ok with using ID cards for logistics like employment and healthcare. But asking people to attach he IDs to social media account is just setting up path to authoritarianism." What if it were (guaranteed always) voluntary, but would give a "verified tick" status? | |||
" People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? Why do you want the rest of the society to decide what's you are allowed to speak/express? If they decide to ban swinging, would you be fine with it? How about gay rights? What exactly are you gaining by handing over such an important right to politicians? This goes both ways. If it’s all about preserving words & free speech, what’s to stop me making death threats towards you in the street then? Only words, after all… Because it's a slippery slope. Remember that no British politician has ever relaxed the rules around speech. Both left and right wing politicians have only added more restrictions. Even the ones who complain about freedom of speech being taken away while they are in the opposition NEVER reversed these laws when they were in power. Taking your argument further, why don't we also let government install cameras at homes? We should definitely arrest people using death threats at home too? Yes, agreed that potentially it’s a slippery slope. But we are living in unprecedented times with the rise of unrestrained Social Media aren’t we? …and, assuming democracy survives intact, if the masses aren’t happy with execution of restrictive policies, then they won’t vote for them next time out will they if another party offers to rip up any particularly offensive changes? " Freedom of speech is fundamental for democracy. There is no democracy without freedom of speech. By the time it reaches a point where "masses aren't happy", the masses wouldn't even be able to talk about it because every place they could talk about it are being monitored. | |||
"Could see advantages if it became compulsory to link a universal digital ID card to any Social Media accounts, that could potentially make people think twice about what they are posting perhaps? I am ok with using ID cards for logistics like employment and healthcare. But asking people to attach he IDs to social media account is just setting up path to authoritarianism. What if it were (guaranteed always) voluntary, but would give a "verified tick" status?" If someone wants to volunteer, that's totally fine. Isn't that how twitter used to work before Musk sold the tick marks for money? | |||
| |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. " Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. | |||
" People who want this kind of authoritarianism tend to work on a mistaken assumption that the politicians will always be in their favour. If Reform wins the election and uses it to track anyone who makes pro-trans or pro-immigration messages on social media, will you be happy with that? Personally, I wouldn’t be happy with that but in a democracy it’s for the people as a whole to decide whether it’s acceptable policy or not isn’t it? Why do you want the rest of the society to decide what's you are allowed to speak/express? If they decide to ban swinging, would you be fine with it? How about gay rights? What exactly are you gaining by handing over such an important right to politicians? This goes both ways. If it’s all about preserving words & free speech, what’s to stop me making death threats towards you in the street then? Only words, after all… Because it's a slippery slope. Remember that no British politician has ever relaxed the rules around speech. Both left and right wing politicians have only added more restrictions. Even the ones who complain about freedom of speech being taken away while they are in the opposition NEVER reversed these laws when they were in power. Taking your argument further, why don't we also let government install cameras at homes? We should definitely arrest people using death threats at home too? Yes, agreed that potentially it’s a slippery slope. But we are living in unprecedented times with the rise of unrestrained Social Media aren’t we? …and, assuming democracy survives intact, if the masses aren’t happy with execution of restrictive policies, then they won’t vote for them next time out will they if another party offers to rip up any particularly offensive changes? Freedom of speech is fundamental for democracy. There is no democracy without freedom of speech. By the time it reaches a point where "masses aren't happy", the masses wouldn't even be able to talk about it because every place they could talk about it are being monitored." Yes I get this but being a ‘free speech absolutist’ is bollox & clearly has no place in a civilised, cohesive society. Else people would be going round being openly racist, making death threats and so on. So clearly you can still have democracy with (some) restrictions on speech. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
" Taking your argument further, why don't we also let government install cameras at homes? We should definitely arrest people using death threats at home too? Yes, agreed that potentially it’s a slippery slope. But we are living in unprecedented times with the rise of unrestrained Social Media aren’t we? …and, assuming democracy survives intact, if the masses aren’t happy with execution of restrictive policies, then they won’t vote for them next time out will they if another party offers to rip up any particularly offensive changes? Freedom of speech is fundamental for democracy. There is no democracy without freedom of speech. By the time it reaches a point where "masses aren't happy", the masses wouldn't even be able to talk about it because every place they could talk about it are being monitored. Yes I get this but being a ‘free speech absolutist’ is bollox & clearly has no place in a civilised, cohesive society. Else people would be going round being openly racist, making death threats and so on. So clearly you can still have democracy with (some) restrictions on speech." I never claimed I am a freedom of speech "absolutist". I draw a line at direct calls for violence. Beyond that, some people could claim that swinging and gangbangs are also not part of a "civilised" society. I don't believe in the government dictating these terms. | |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities." What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 | |||
"Back on the agenda - good idea or not? I think they are good and should be compulsory for general day to day activities so not having one is difficult. Provided that they are secure and the government can be trusted to keep the data safe. And there lies the problem." I carried ID all of the time while in the Paras. Lived in Germany & had ID. Was only asked twice in 3 years there as a civvy. Lived in Spain & carried ID for 2 years only asked for when I was shopping checking out & never by the police. It wasn’t & wont be a problem for me to be honest. | |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 " With photo ID, you show it, no record is taken. It does what it says on the tin, IDs you. Can it be faked, of course, but I'm pretty sure so can anything including a digital ID. The difference with digital is that it is more than proof of identity. You won't just show it, a record will be taken of it, and saved, and shared, and lost... If you think that it will only ever be used for proving eligibility to work, you are delusional. Overnight organisations like the DWP, banks, NHS, etc. will be wanting to scan your ID into their systems. Then it'll be the likes of Ticketmaster, for "consumer safety". This is the real problem with it, it's the thin end of the wedge for an even more surveilled society than now. And I'm pretty sure the dodgy employers, that don't obey the present laws on ensuring their workers have the right to work here, will change their ways, just because we have digital IDs in the country. | |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂" I wonder if there was a cost benefit to the public eg combining your Driving Licence, Passport & NI details on your digital ID paranoid people might be more receptive to it…? As for a cashless society I can absolutely see that happening to further marginalise the black economy. The benefits to the tax man are too big to ignore. | |||
| |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 I wonder if there was a cost benefit to the public eg combining your Driving Licence, Passport & NI details on your digital ID paranoid people might be more receptive to it…? As for a cashless society I can absolutely see that happening to further marginalise the black economy. The benefits to the tax man are too big to ignore." Even more risky if the IT system get hacked - then your entire life is in the hands of criminals. | |||
| |||
| |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 With photo ID, you show it, no record is taken. It does what it says on the tin, IDs you. Can it be faked, of course, but I'm pretty sure so can anything including a digital ID. The difference with digital is that it is more than proof of identity. You won't just show it, a record will be taken of it, and saved, and shared, and lost... If you think that it will only ever be used for proving eligibility to work, you are delusional. Overnight organisations like the DWP, banks, NHS, etc. will be wanting to scan your ID into their systems. Then it'll be the likes of Ticketmaster, for "consumer safety". This is the real problem with it, it's the thin end of the wedge for an even more surveilled society than now. And I'm pretty sure the dodgy employers, that don't obey the present laws on ensuring their workers have the right to work here, will change their ways, just because we have digital IDs in the country. " Erm...the DWP already has mine, yours and everyone else's info. As do the NHS. Banks require it at the point of any product opening. So how is this in any way different? The DVLA has a huge database of driving licence and car details. Yet I don't recall anyone ever panicking about it being hacked. 🤔🤷♂️ Your mobile phone has GPS data, as do car dashcams. The UK has more CCTV cameras than most countries. It's the fourth most surveilled country on the planet. Tell me how another database will make anyone more 'controlled', 'surveiled' or at risk of data hacks than they already are? Or how your life will change in any significant way? Because if you think there'll be an increase in risk or the government will suddenly be spying on your every move, online shopping purchase, or fab forum posts, then I'd say its not me being delusional. | |||
" As for a cashless society I can absolutely see that happening to further marginalise the black economy. The benefits to the tax man are too big to ignore." The BOE, since the earliest discussions commenced about digital currencies, have clearly stated that even if, and there's no timescale for when/if it would ever happen, a CBDC became a reality, that it would run ALONGSIDE bank deposits and cash, not replace them. Yet the paranoia about a cashless society continues, despite a complete lack of evidence that it will ever become a reality. Regardless of laws, rules and regulations, do you think that anyone involved in black market economies would suddenly pack up shop in the event that cash were ever to cease to exist? Because that's hilarious. | |||
"Uk has more cctv than the USA Starmer is chatting shit again thinking ID cards will stop illegals working. " Haha is there anything that comes out his mouth that isn’t utter shit? Most illegals aren’t interested in working, not legitimately at least. Wasn’t his utter genius 1 out 1 in plan meant to stop the boats? So why do we need this haha | |||
" As for a cashless society I can absolutely see that happening to further marginalise the black economy. The benefits to the tax man are too big to ignore. The BOE, since the earliest discussions commenced about digital currencies, have clearly stated that even if, and there's no timescale for when/if it would ever happen, a CBDC became a reality, that it would run ALONGSIDE bank deposits and cash, not replace them. Yet the paranoia about a cashless society continues, despite a complete lack of evidence that it will ever become a reality. Regardless of laws, rules and regulations, do you think that anyone involved in black market economies would suddenly pack up shop in the event that cash were ever to cease to exist? Because that's hilarious. " I don’t fear a cashless society personally. Anything that potentially brings more tax in, I’m absolutely in favour of. The only major arguments against going fully digital for all services imo are hackers & power outages. I don’t fear being monitored, as you say, we are already monitored more than people probably think anyway. | |||
" As for a cashless society I can absolutely see that happening to further marginalise the black economy. The benefits to the tax man are too big to ignore. The BOE, since the earliest discussions commenced about digital currencies, have clearly stated that even if, and there's no timescale for when/if it would ever happen, a CBDC became a reality, that it would run ALONGSIDE bank deposits and cash, not replace them. Yet the paranoia about a cashless society continues, despite a complete lack of evidence that it will ever become a reality. Regardless of laws, rules and regulations, do you think that anyone involved in black market economies would suddenly pack up shop in the event that cash were ever to cease to exist? Because that's hilarious. I don’t fear a cashless society personally. Anything that potentially brings more tax in, I’m absolutely in favour of. The only major arguments against going fully digital for all services imo are hackers & power outages. I don’t fear being monitored, as you say, we are already monitored more than people probably think anyway." Yep. And that's why the BOE have consistently stated cash will remain. Although in a power outage I suspect getting cash from an ATM would be problematic, without a JCB or some explosives. 🤷♂️ | |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 With photo ID, you show it, no record is taken. It does what it says on the tin, IDs you. Can it be faked, of course, but I'm pretty sure so can anything including a digital ID. The difference with digital is that it is more than proof of identity. You won't just show it, a record will be taken of it, and saved, and shared, and lost... If you think that it will only ever be used for proving eligibility to work, you are delusional. Overnight organisations like the DWP, banks, NHS, etc. will be wanting to scan your ID into their systems. Then it'll be the likes of Ticketmaster, for "consumer safety". This is the real problem with it, it's the thin end of the wedge for an even more surveilled society than now. And I'm pretty sure the dodgy employers, that don't obey the present laws on ensuring their workers have the right to work here, will change their ways, just because we have digital IDs in the country. Erm...the DWP already has mine, yours and everyone else's info. As do the NHS. Banks require it at the point of any product opening. So how is this in any way different? The DVLA has a huge database of driving licence and car details. Yet I don't recall anyone ever panicking about it being hacked. 🤔🤷♂️ Your mobile phone has GPS data, as do car dashcams. The UK has more CCTV cameras than most countries. It's the fourth most surveilled country on the planet. Tell me how another database will make anyone more 'controlled', 'surveiled' or at risk of data hacks than they already are? Or how your life will change in any significant way? Because if you think there'll be an increase in risk or the government will suddenly be spying on your every move, online shopping purchase, or fab forum posts, then I'd say its not me being delusional. " It's the connection of it all. At present those buckets of data are separated. And in most of those cases it's simply proof of identity. Not linking it all together, with one mechanism to access it. There's a difference between knowing my address and it being linked to my car reg. than then being able to link that with where I am in the country, right now, and what prescription I've just picked up. That is much more specific data on me, and with it all dependent on the one device much more damaging should it be hacked. It also poses problems for organisations wanting to use this, GDPR is already a headache, this level of PII is at scary levels. | |||
"Carried photo ID most of my adult life, is it a good idea, yes, should it be forced on the public, no, either way it should be ultra secure. Photo ID is a very different animal to a digital ID, linked to all your important activities. What activities do you think it would be linked to? Because nothing I've read has stated anything other than it being used as a means of proving eligibility to work in the UK? At present theres no link between an NI number and a driving licence or passport, so no photo ID to prove that the NI number provided is that of the person giving it. Digital ID will link the two. You'll never stop cash in hand employment or the black market economy, but you can reduce fraudulent use of documents and as such block access to work for those not eligible. There's been no other statement about the use of digital ID. Yet Facey is awash (as is here) with paranoia and bollocks about tracking, financial control and 'social credit scores', none of which exist or have happened in any other country that has had digital ID for years. People keep harping on about 'Chinese social credit scores'. They're not what people think. It's no different in reality to UK credit scores for financial assessments and criminal records data used in job and travel applications. But thanks to social media and the internet people have come up with the usual bollocks about 'government control' and monitoring. It's honestly fucking hilarious.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 With photo ID, you show it, no record is taken. It does what it says on the tin, IDs you. Can it be faked, of course, but I'm pretty sure so can anything including a digital ID. The difference with digital is that it is more than proof of identity. You won't just show it, a record will be taken of it, and saved, and shared, and lost... If you think that it will only ever be used for proving eligibility to work, you are delusional. Overnight organisations like the DWP, banks, NHS, etc. will be wanting to scan your ID into their systems. Then it'll be the likes of Ticketmaster, for "consumer safety". This is the real problem with it, it's the thin end of the wedge for an even more surveilled society than now. And I'm pretty sure the dodgy employers, that don't obey the present laws on ensuring their workers have the right to work here, will change their ways, just because we have digital IDs in the country. Erm...the DWP already has mine, yours and everyone else's info. As do the NHS. Banks require it at the point of any product opening. So how is this in any way different? The DVLA has a huge database of driving licence and car details. Yet I don't recall anyone ever panicking about it being hacked. 🤔🤷♂️ Your mobile phone has GPS data, as do car dashcams. The UK has more CCTV cameras than most countries. It's the fourth most surveilled country on the planet. Tell me how another database will make anyone more 'controlled', 'surveiled' or at risk of data hacks than they already are? Or how your life will change in any significant way? Because if you think there'll be an increase in risk or the government will suddenly be spying on your every move, online shopping purchase, or fab forum posts, then I'd say its not me being delusional. It's the connection of it all. At present those buckets of data are separated. And in most of those cases it's simply proof of identity. Not linking it all together, with one mechanism to access it. There's a difference between knowing my address and it being linked to my car reg. than then being able to link that with where I am in the country, right now, and what prescription I've just picked up. That is much more specific data on me, and with it all dependent on the one device much more damaging should it be hacked. It also poses problems for organisations wanting to use this, GDPR is already a headache, this level of PII is at scary levels." And none of what you say has been announced in terms of digital ID. It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ | |||
| |||
"If they are a legal requirement, we must all have one, not like a passport which is requested for a personal purpose. What will be the punishment for not having one, and refusing to have one, and I guess all children will have one assigned to them at registered birth. " I'm assuming that those who are too cognitively challenged, don't have a smartphone or the internet, will be furnished with a carer, who will be able to do it for them. Except, there are no carers, after immigration was made harder etc | |||
"I doubt whether any of this will actually happen. Far too many people will object to using it. The hapless Starmer has just created another issue for himself when he’s got enough problems to deal with. It’ll be yet another nail in his coffin. Plus the government will just be too incompetent to actually implement it. I’m sure they will manage to spend a few billions trying, siphoned off to the usual superannuated government employees and external consultants suckling at the state’s teat. Then Labour will get kicked out and the whole idea will be dumped, or it will just be shelved as too difficult." I agree, but it says much about Starmer that he steams ahead with such an unpopular policy without reading the room. His judgement is just appalling especially considering he's a KC. | |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ " But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." | |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." " And any of those are an issue because....? I already have a government gateway ID re my tax return, which I had to provide ID for. Benefit applications currently require ID. If it's quicker and easier to do digitally rather than submit photos of documents how is that a negative? Same with driving licences. Please explain how providing personal data via paper that will be input on a database is any better, less risky or secure, or in any way more inconvenient than a digital ID? I'll wait. 🤷♂️ | |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." And any of those are an issue because....? I already have a government gateway ID re my tax return, which I had to provide ID for. Benefit applications currently require ID. If it's quicker and easier to do digitally rather than submit photos of documents how is that a negative? Same with driving licences. Please explain how providing personal data via paper that will be input on a database is any better, less risky or secure, or in any way more inconvenient than a digital ID? I'll wait. 🤷♂️ " As I mentioned before, because at present all these are separate data lakes, with nothing common joining them. You need different credentials to access them, and the data is not linked. Someone, at present, could access my NHS app and see my information, or they could potentially get into my HMRC account. But in neither case does getting into one mean they can access the other. That for me is the biggest worry. Not very far down the line this card will become the "one stop Government card" and everything will be linked from it. It's inevitable and to a degree logical, however it also raises the risks substantially. Security is never 100%, if someone is determined enough (or the potential reward is big enough) they can gain access. Some bad actor gaining access to anyone of those things is bad enough, gaining access to multiple (even just the things they have mentioned) could be totally devastating to millions of people. | |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." And any of those are an issue because....? I already have a government gateway ID re my tax return, which I had to provide ID for. Benefit applications currently require ID. If it's quicker and easier to do digitally rather than submit photos of documents how is that a negative? Same with driving licences. Please explain how providing personal data via paper that will be input on a database is any better, less risky or secure, or in any way more inconvenient than a digital ID? I'll wait. 🤷♂️" Because the IT system hosting a monolithic database of private data could (and will) be hacked by bad actors. Then every single UK citizen is open to fraud, embezzlement or bIackmaiI. In the age of hacking, the smart thing to do is decentralise data not centralise. But this Labour government isn't smart. | |||
| |||
| |||
| |||
"Is there anywhere suggesting that all this data would be centralised under this new “lake” there’s no need for it to be to provide the service they are suggesting. The only service that it is suggesting is a simple proof you are who you say, you are a uk citizen and you have the right to work. " Yes, the gov.uk website. Already linked it to driver's licenses, benefits and the tax office! | |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." And any of those are an issue because....? I already have a government gateway ID re my tax return, which I had to provide ID for. Benefit applications currently require ID. If it's quicker and easier to do digitally rather than submit photos of documents how is that a negative? Same with driving licences. Please explain how providing personal data via paper that will be input on a database is any better, less risky or secure, or in any way more inconvenient than a digital ID? I'll wait. 🤷♂️ Because the IT system hosting a monolithic database of private data could (and will) be hacked by bad actors. Then every single UK citizen is open to fraud, embezzlement or bIackmaiI. In the age of hacking, the smart thing to do is decentralise data not centralise. But this Labour government isn't smart. " I'll play along. I worked in finance for years so understand the concern about ID fraud and hacking. But I don't get the concern many are expressing about centralised data being any greater risk. There's already sufficient data stored by any one body to clone someone's ID now. So why hasn't it happened on the scale people are predicting it will? Why has nobody hacked the nations passport records, or the DVLA database? Or the NHS? All the info is out there. If hacking is that simple, why aren't banks subject to it on a daily basis? You can't tell me the reward isnt there? If hacking is that simple then what's stopping people doing it to multiple databases to obtain the same info they could from a centralised one? I hear a lot of 'what if' scenarios? The kind of 'what if' scenarios that have been around decades and crop up anytime change is suggested. Oddly the 'what if' scenarios never seem to happen on any grand scale. 🤷♂️ | |||
| |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." And any of those are an issue because....? I already have a government gateway ID re my tax return, which I had to provide ID for. Benefit applications currently require ID. If it's quicker and easier to do digitally rather than submit photos of documents how is that a negative? Same with driving licences. Please explain how providing personal data via paper that will be input on a database is any better, less risky or secure, or in any way more inconvenient than a digital ID? I'll wait. 🤷♂️ Because the IT system hosting a monolithic database of private data could (and will) be hacked by bad actors. Then every single UK citizen is open to fraud, embezzlement or bIackmaiI. In the age of hacking, the smart thing to do is decentralise data not centralise. But this Labour government isn't smart. I'll play along. I worked in finance for years so understand the concern about ID fraud and hacking. But I don't get the concern many are expressing about centralised data being any greater risk. There's already sufficient data stored by any one body to clone someone's ID now. So why hasn't it happened on the scale people are predicting it will? Why has nobody hacked the nations passport records, or the DVLA database? Or the NHS? All the info is out there. If hacking is that simple, why aren't banks subject to it on a daily basis? You can't tell me the reward isnt there? If hacking is that simple then what's stopping people doing it to multiple databases to obtain the same info they could from a centralised one? I hear a lot of 'what if' scenarios? The kind of 'what if' scenarios that have been around decades and crop up anytime change is suggested. Oddly the 'what if' scenarios never seem to happen on any grand scale. 🤷♂️ " In fact, the NHS has suffered numerous hacking incidents. Lloyds, HSBC and Tesco bank have likewise been hacked. With AI tools hacking will only get easier, so the concept of a digital ID system is flawed imo. | |||
| |||
" In fact, the NHS has suffered numerous hacking incidents. Lloyds, HSBC and Tesco bank have likewise been hacked. With AI tools hacking will only get easier, so the concept of a digital ID system is flawed imo. " Then there is no more risk in this than having a passport, or a driving licence, or a tax account then. | |||
"So if someone has illegally gained access to the country and is working cash in hand at a car wash, building site etc how will it affect them " Has the government said it will make working illegally impossible ? Or have they said it’ll make it harder? | |||
" --snip-- It's pure speculation, guesswork, and dare I say it, conspiracy theory and paranoia. All that's been announced is linking photo ID data (no different to that currently held for passports and driving licences) to national insurance numbers. Everything else is just gossip. 🤷♂️ But it is already being lined up to be required for benefits, managing your tax etc. Do you think all that effort will be done just to verify you're allowed to work in the UK? Direct quote off the gov.uk website "Instead, the roll-out will in time make it simpler to apply for services like driving licences, childcare and welfare, while streamlining access to tax records." And any of those are an issue because....? I already have a government gateway ID re my tax return, which I had to provide ID for. Benefit applications currently require ID. If it's quicker and easier to do digitally rather than submit photos of documents how is that a negative? Same with driving licences. Please explain how providing personal data via paper that will be input on a database is any better, less risky or secure, or in any way more inconvenient than a digital ID? I'll wait. 🤷♂️ Because the IT system hosting a monolithic database of private data could (and will) be hacked by bad actors. Then every single UK citizen is open to fraud, embezzlement or bIackmaiI. In the age of hacking, the smart thing to do is decentralise data not centralise. But this Labour government isn't smart. I'll play along. I worked in finance for years so understand the concern about ID fraud and hacking. But I don't get the concern many are expressing about centralised data being any greater risk. There's already sufficient data stored by any one body to clone someone's ID now. So why hasn't it happened on the scale people are predicting it will? Why has nobody hacked the nations passport records, or the DVLA database? Or the NHS? All the info is out there. If hacking is that simple, why aren't banks subject to it on a daily basis? You can't tell me the reward isnt there? If hacking is that simple then what's stopping people doing it to multiple databases to obtain the same info they could from a centralised one? I hear a lot of 'what if' scenarios? The kind of 'what if' scenarios that have been around decades and crop up anytime change is suggested. Oddly the 'what if' scenarios never seem to happen on any grand scale. 🤷♂️ " I take your points, and they are historically good ones. However, the cyber security landscape is rapidly changing. Up until very recently, you had two ways in. Break the technology doors and locks, or exploit the human angle. In most cases the human angle is by far the easiest, and if you look at the stats over the years, human error in one way or another has often been the key that opens up these large companies/organisations. But, with the advent of AI and with quantum computing appearing over the horizon, the technical locks are much more vulnerable than they ever have been. Yes the same tools are being used to beef up the defences, but the bad guys don't have rules and procedures to follow, so generally get there first! Siloing is bad for analytics and using the data, but good for security. Security costs money, analysing all this data is useful and can make money. There's your problem, and the human element still hasn't gone away. M&S, JLR, Telemessage in the US, all very big significant breaches just this year, all seem to be based on the human element. | |||
"Its actually scary how many people are ok with this, All the comparisons with mobile phones, social media, and store cards etc, If I don't wont them I stop using them, They're making this a law to have one with stopping the illegals working as their main point, has it worked in any of the other countries that have something similar ? " I've no idea if digital ID has had any impact on immigration elsewhere. I can see how it potentially could help if used in line with more robust checks on employers and also if it was linked to benefits, to reduce fraud there. I suspect the issue many have is the direct link to a statement that the purpose is to reduce illegal working and the media have jumped on that, and the 'what's next?' discussions have started with many jumping on seriously paranoid subjects. Digital ID has existed elsewhere for years. And the usage volumes evidence the perceived benefits residents see, given that nowhere has it been made mandatory (hence no stats below at 100%). Uptake levels in other countries. Estonia (has had digital ID for 20 years) 99% Singapore 97% Sweden 99% Belgium (started digital ID back in 2003) circa 38m users India 1.3bn users Denmark 90% Netherlands 15m users Nigeria 100m users Estonia is the benchmark for digital ID and uses secure blockchain and biometric data to maintain security. Many other European countries have successfully rolled out digital ID, although nowhere from what I’ve seen is it mandatory. I wonder if the biggest issues people have with the idea are simply that it's been 'sold' as a cure for illegal working, any mention of other uses without full disclosure, and the simple fact it's been Starmer and Labour that have announced it? Something tells me that if it was a plastic card with a red cross on it, used to identify someone as a genuine 'True Brit' and it had been announced as an idea by Farage, then the reaction would be somewhat different....🤔🤔🤔 | |||
" In fact, the NHS has suffered numerous hacking incidents. Lloyds, HSBC and Tesco bank have likewise been hacked. With AI tools hacking will only get easier, so the concept of a digital ID system is flawed imo. Then there is no more risk in this than having a passport, or a driving licence, or a tax account then. " Yes there is. This is yr ID card that is yr proof of citizenship that will be linked at all aspects of your life. If it gets st0Ien or corrupted, you are vulnerable to all manner of nefarious activity. | |||
" In fact, the NHS has suffered numerous hacking incidents. Lloyds, HSBC and Tesco bank have likewise been hacked. With AI tools hacking will only get easier, so the concept of a digital ID system is flawed imo. Then there is no more risk in this than having a passport, or a driving licence, or a tax account then. Yes there is. This is yr ID card that is yr proof of citizenship that will be linked at all aspects of your life. If it gets st0Ien or corrupted, you are vulnerable to all manner of nefarious activity." Just as you are with any of those other data sources being compromised. There is no higher risk here. It’s just another data source. Most of these systems are already linked to some level, however there are still separate data sources to them separated by their own infrastructure and security. | |||
| |||
"YouGov polling today: “From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose the proposal to introduce a digital ID card system in Britain”? Support: 42% Oppose: 45% By 2024 vote Lab: 51% support / 35% oppose Con: 50% / 44% Lib Dem: 49% / 39% Reform: 22% / 69% " Ipsos survey July 2025 New data from Ipsos in the UK shows that over half (57%) of Britons support the introduction of a national identity card scheme. The poll, which surveyed 1,116 British adults between 18-21 July 2025, finds that support is strongest among older age groups, with two-thirds (66%) of those aged 55 and over in favour, compared to half (51%) of 16-34 year-olds. Politically, 2024 Conservative voters show the highest level of support at 74%, followed by Liberal Democrat voters (67%) and Labour voters (61%). Reform UK voters show the lowest level of support at 55%. 🤷♂️🤷♂️ | |||
"YouGov polling today: “From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose the proposal to introduce a digital ID card system in Britain”? Support: 42% Oppose: 45% By 2024 vote Lab: 51% support / 35% oppose Con: 50% / 44% Lib Dem: 49% / 39% Reform: 22% / 69% Ipsos survey July 2025 New data from Ipsos in the UK shows that over half (57%) of Britons support the introduction of a national identity card scheme. The poll, which surveyed 1,116 British adults between 18-21 July 2025, finds that support is strongest among older age groups, with two-thirds (66%) of those aged 55 and over in favour, compared to half (51%) of 16-34 year-olds. Politically, 2024 Conservative voters show the highest level of support at 74%, followed by Liberal Democrat voters (67%) and Labour voters (61%). Reform UK voters show the lowest level of support at 55%. 🤷♂️🤷♂️" Sure, older data based on a purely theoretical scenario. We know that this Labour government is pretty dim, but you have to ask why exactly they would bother pursuing a policy like this that doesn’t have any clear support and which wasn’t in their _anifesto. I appreciate that they are desperate to try and seize the narrative after a year of failure but anyone with a pea for a brain can see that picking some random policy out of the air that’s unlikely to ever happen and which just isn’t very popular continues to make them look out of touch and clueless. | |||
"YouGov polling today: “From what you have seen or heard, do you support or oppose the proposal to introduce a digital ID card system in Britain”? Support: 42% Oppose: 45% By 2024 vote Lab: 51% support / 35% oppose Con: 50% / 44% Lib Dem: 49% / 39% Reform: 22% / 69% Ipsos survey July 2025 New data from Ipsos in the UK shows that over half (57%) of Britons support the introduction of a national identity card scheme. The poll, which surveyed 1,116 British adults between 18-21 July 2025, finds that support is strongest among older age groups, with two-thirds (66%) of those aged 55 and over in favour, compared to half (51%) of 16-34 year-olds. Politically, 2024 Conservative voters show the highest level of support at 74%, followed by Liberal Democrat voters (67%) and Labour voters (61%). Reform UK voters show the lowest level of support at 55%. 🤷♂️🤷♂️ Sure, older data based on a purely theoretical scenario. We know that this Labour government is pretty dim, but you have to ask why exactly they would bother pursuing a policy like this that doesn’t have any clear support and which wasn’t in their _anifesto. I appreciate that they are desperate to try and seize the narrative after a year of failure but anyone with a pea for a brain can see that picking some random policy out of the air that’s unlikely to ever happen and which just isn’t very popular continues to make them look out of touch and clueless. " ... . unless its all a red herring as labour conference starts Sunday,to deflect media reports of immigration numbers and labour leadership challenge.. | |||
| |||
 | |||
| |||
"1.75 million people have now given over personal details to sign a petition to say they don't want to have to share their details. "Yep. The irony. "When you contact us, visit us, access or use our services either online, by post, in person or by other means, we may collect, store and use your personal data. The personal data we collect from people who start and sign petitions will include: your name, your email address, your postcode, the country you live in, whether you are a British citizen, the IP address you use when starting or signing a petition." 🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂😂 | |||
| |||
| |||
"1.75 million people have now given over personal details to sign a petition to say they don't want to have to share their details.
Yep. The irony.
"When you contact us, visit us, access or use our services either online, by post, in person or by other means, we may collect, store and use your personal data.
The personal data we collect from people who start and sign petitions will include: your name, your email address, your postcode, the country you live in, whether you are a British citizen, the IP address you use when starting or signing a petition."
🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂😂"Like most sites you go on but after receiving that info can they do anything with it ? The potential damage/control they can do with this enforced digital ID is huge, You know full well they wont stop at "its just for proving you can work in the UK" | |||
"Most of mainland Europe use ID cards and it appears to work there... ...and has done for quite some time!" Yes mainland Europe definitely doesn’t have an illegal immigration problem. | |||
"Most of mainland Europe use ID cards and it appears to work there... ...and has done for quite some time! Yes mainland Europe definitely doesn’t have an illegal immigration problem." It definitely doesn't have government controls over movement, removal of access to money, restrictions on travel, widespread data hacks or any other of the claims made by most regarding digital ID. But hey. Estonia has only had them for 20 years with no issues and a 99% take up so I'm sure their CBDC and authoritarian overlords will be along shortly.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂 | |||
 | |||
| |||
"Whatever about ID cards, CCTV is a bigger threat to a person's liberties. For example the only person likely to as for my ID as I understand it is a new employer But for me to go to that place of work I'd pass many CCTV cameras all feeding back data on my movements. Worse still if I am going for a meet there's the domestic cameras and cameras in every cafe, shopping center, most public parks. If I'm meeting someone it's more than likely some CCTV operator along with facebook and tiktok know exactly where I am and who I am with. Let's hope they can keep schtum 🤐" Don't forget all the ring doorbells. The people you meet may well be recording you, as will their neighbours and the nosey bastards across the road. Best stay at home and knock one out instead. 🤷♂️😂😂 | |||
"Most of mainland Europe use ID cards and it appears to work there... ...and has done for quite some time! Yes mainland Europe definitely doesn’t have an illegal immigration problem. It definitely doesn't have government controls over movement, removal of access to money, restrictions on travel, widespread data hacks or any other of the claims made by most regarding digital ID. But hey. Estonia has only had them for 20 years with no issues and a 99% take up so I'm sure their CBDC and authoritarian overlords will be along shortly.....🤦♂️🤦♂️😂😂" .and what is the relationship with digital IDs and all the figures you are banding about? Are these all due to digital id's and if so, can you prove this? | |||
