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Tel Aviv fans banned from Aston Villa
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"Aston Villa football club said yesterday that the city's Safety Advisory group who are responsible for issuing safety certificates has advised that fans of the Israeli Tel Aviv club they would not be permitted to attend the 6 November Europa League match. Is this more anti Israeli protest? " This decision is really down to the police who's job it is to protect, not dictate who can attend. There couldn't be a huge number of Maccabi supporters and if the police cannot ensure that those supporters can enjoy a trip to watch their team play at Villa then whoever is in charge should be sacked. | |||
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"If you'd ever been to Witton, you would know why it's not a good idea to allow mobs of Jewish people revved up, in a tribal mindset to go through it. If in 3 weeks this decision hadn't been made and a bunch of people got hurt and killed it would be tragic Yet again, the cynic in me would say most people virtue signalling about this wouldn't really give a fuck or spare a second thought if a few Muslim or Jewish blokes were hurt or killed, and mainly just use the "antisemitism" cry to fit their agenda... "If Tel Aviv fans are attacked and hurt, it is indeed anti-semitism, which is the root cause of the problem. Instead of protecting them from the extremists, banning them from going there is just bending over to extremists. | |||
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"If a set of fans are violent then I am 100% for banning them. If they are not violent then I am 100% against banning them. I am massively pro Palestinian (have been since I was a child as I grew up in the region) but I don’t see anyone claiming that the Israeli fans will be violent here. I don’t agree with this. It is basically intimidation. For me the issue is a deeper one as to whether we, as a society, allow ourselves to roll over in the face of violent threats and intimidation. I say no. Who else will be next if we allow this?" Maccabi fans last year caused trouble in Amsterdam, caused trouble in Athens, and a game between Maccabi and a Turkish side due to be played in Istanbul was moved to Hungary and played behind closed doors because the authorities couldn’t guarantee safety But everything Isreal is anti semetic….. This is what happens when non football people try to talk football! | |||
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"Actually… I kinda see how West Midlands police came to the decision This is when you find who are football fans.. and how many of them have memories About this time last year there was violence in Amsterdam between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv … Immediately there were screams of “antisemitism” bounded about….. it was only in the days after it came out that it was in fact the Maccabi fans that were the aggressors… they had attacked Arab and Muslim locals the night before, they had attacked Arabs on the day of the game and even on the way to the game and inside the stadium they fans where singing songs about killing Arabs .. and glorifying the murders of innocent Palestinians in Gaza Maccabi were actually then given a 1 match stadium ban by UEFA for the conduct of there fans! Banning away fans from stadiums is not new… it happened to England on multiple occasions… this year is the first time Celtic and rangers fans have been allowed in each other’s stadium in 5 years! Millwall and Leeds have for example not allowed each other’s away fans in Chelsea didn’t take any away fans to a champions league game in Israel a few years ago If the police seriously think there could be an issue, I have no issue with it, especially since maccabi has previous from just last year!! It’s too easy to just scream “antisemitism” at everything This is what happens when non football fans talk football and don’t know what they are talking about! " I do not follow football, but I know what you are relating to. Violent thugs parading themselves through a foreign city, chanting hate slogans and attacking Muslims and city residents. | |||
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"If a set of fans are violent then I am 100% for banning them. If they are not violent then I am 100% against banning them. I am massively pro Palestinian (have been since I was a child as I grew up in the region) but I don’t see anyone claiming that the Israeli fans will be violent here. I don’t agree with this. It is basically intimidation. For me the issue is a deeper one as to whether we, as a society, allow ourselves to roll over in the face of violent threats and intimidation. I say no. Who else will be next if we allow this? Maccabi fans last year caused trouble in Amsterdam, caused trouble in Athens, and a game between Maccabi and a Turkish side due to be played in Istanbul was moved to Hungary and played behind closed doors because the authorities couldn’t guarantee safety But everything Isreal is anti semetic….. This is what happens when non football people try to talk football! " Fine - then ban them for violence if that is the concern. I would 100% support that. That isn’t why this is being raised though is it? My understanding is that _their_ safety can’t be guaranteed. | |||
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"I do find it funny though Literally 2 weeks ago… Aston Villa vs legia Warsaw… West Midlands police advised that away fans be banned from that game Not a peep heard Aston Villa vs Maccabi tel aviv….. West Midlands police advised that away fans be banned from that game Antisemitism!!!!!!!! " Don't say that, it challenges the agenda of the gee bee bee news rhetoric  | |||
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"Actually… I kinda see how West Midlands police came to the decision This is when you find who are football fans.. and how many of them have memories About this time last year there was violence in Amsterdam between Ajax and Maccabi Tel Aviv … Immediately there were screams of “antisemitism” bounded about….. it was only in the days after it came out that it was in fact the Maccabi fans that were the aggressors… they had attacked Arab and Muslim locals the night before, they had attacked Arabs on the day of the game and even on the way to the game and inside the stadium they fans where singing songs about killing Arabs .. and glorifying the murders of innocent Palestinians in Gaza Maccabi were actually then given a 1 match stadium ban by UEFA for the conduct of there fans! Banning away fans from stadiums is not new… it happened to England on multiple occasions… this year is the first time Celtic and rangers fans have been allowed in each other’s stadium in 5 years! Millwall and Leeds have for example not allowed each other’s away fans in Chelsea didn’t take any away fans to a champions league game in Israel a few years ago If the police seriously think there could be an issue, I have no issue with it, especially since maccabi has previous from just last year!! It’s too easy to just scream “antisemitism” at everything This is what happens when non football fans talk football and don’t know what they are talking about! " I can't agree and in respect of your last sentence, how do you know whether anyone is or isn't a football fan when all they are doing is expressing an opinion? Everyone is entitled to their point of view. | |||
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"I do find it funny though Literally 2 weeks ago… Aston Villa vs legia Warsaw… West Midlands police advised that away fans be banned from that game Not a peep heard Aston Villa vs Maccabi tel aviv….. West Midlands police advised that away fans be banned from that game Antisemitism!!!!!!!! Don't say that, it challenges the agenda of the gee bee bee news rhetoric "Legia Warsaw (the same as Celtic/Rangers and Leeds/Millwall) was fan on fan violence. It’s a football matter and deal with it accordingly. The concern here is not the Villa fans. It is the wider public. That’s why it is different. My concern is not anti semitism. It’s that we think it is ok to intimidate people. If we agree as a society to treat Israel like South Africa in the 80s then I would personally support that. Currently we don’t, so let them play. | |||
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"This is not about football fans, this is clearly about the lack of capabilities West Midlands police have in protecting jewish people from people in Birmingham. All teams have fans that are thugs, but not all fans are thugs, and those people who are trying to wrap up the behaviour of a subset of fans as an excuse for supporting the ban need to have a long hard think. What has happened to this country that we can't protect Jewish people from visiting Birmingham, by not being able to uphold the law we simply ban them from attending. How must Jewish people feel that live in Birmingham today! We are an embarrassment, bending to threats, empowering the behaviour of violence by punishing those that violence is intended for. " It’s a football safety decision hijacked by politicians for their own self service Even here domestically… football safety decisions are not uncommon, be that limiting the amount of fans… or no fans, or the changing of kick off times As a person who lives in Newcastle I know what has happened here on Tyne wear Derby days… from the full exclusion of away fans, to the military operation they now do busing fans to from the ground, and the march to/from the stations to the stadiums! You make it sound like there are no Jewish fans of other clubs out there! | |||
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"This is not about football fans, this is clearly about the lack of capabilities West Midlands police have in protecting jewish people from people in Birmingham. All teams have fans that are thugs, but not all fans are thugs, and those people who are trying to wrap up the behaviour of a subset of fans as an excuse for supporting the ban need to have a long hard think. What has happened to this country that we can't protect Jewish people from visiting Birmingham, by not being able to uphold the law we simply ban them from attending. How must Jewish people feel that live in Birmingham today! We are an embarrassment, bending to threats, empowering the behaviour of violence by punishing those that violence is intended for. It’s a football safety decision hijacked by politicians for their own self service Even here domestically… football safety decisions are not uncommon, be that limiting the amount of fans… or no fans, or the changing of kick off times As a person who lives in Newcastle I know what has happened here on Tyne wear Derby days… from the full exclusion of away fans, to the military operation they now do busing fans to from the ground, and the march to/from the stations to the stadiums! You make it sound like there are no Jewish fans of other clubs out there! " I disagree, it is clearly a Jewish - local issue, not a Maccabi Tel Aviv - Aston Villa issue. West Midlands police can't handle the outcome of Jewish people and locals converging in Birmingham and here we are. | |||
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"It’s not a good look. Only two weeks ago the police shot a Jew at a synagogue now they are banning Jewish football fans. " Utter nonsense. Firstly, the police were acting in defence of the Jewish victims of the Synagogue attack. Even the family of the innocent victim caught by a stray bullet said they blamed the terrorist, NOT the police. Secondly, Jewish football fans are not banned from the match at Villa. Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are banned. There is a clear difference. Clearly people have different opinions on many issues, but ignoring the truth does not help anyone. | |||
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"I just don't understand if people just "skip read" threads or just don't bother reading at all. As @Fabio has said a number of times, this was a policing and a footballing decision. The away fans of Maccabi Tel-Aviv have proved time and time again to just be a bunch of thugs. The fact that they happen to also be Jewish is their problem. Thugs are thugs the world over and football since the 1980's has treated them as such. If they want to go to away games, then just stop beating up people when away, ask the residents of Amsterdam." It looks like you are the one who skipped reading replies to Fabio's posts. There is not much information available on why the police recommended this. If it's purely for football hooliganism, surely other countries would have the same issue? I checked Maccabi Tel Aviv's recent games. They have travelled to Greece, Ukraine and Malta and their fans weren't banned anywhere. No reports of violence. What is so special about Birmingham that the police think this will result in violence? | |||
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"I just don't understand if people just "skip read" threads or just don't bother reading at all. As @Fabio has said a number of times, this was a policing and a footballing decision. The away fans of Maccabi Tel-Aviv have proved time and time again to just be a bunch of thugs. The fact that they happen to also be Jewish is their problem. Thugs are thugs the world over and football since the 1980's has treated them as such. If they want to go to away games, then just stop beating up people when away, ask the residents of Amsterdam." Very well said. Some of the regular posters on this politics forum, including the OP, are simply blind to the facts, only interested in pushing their nauseating nonsense despite numerous posters explaining why, in view of the past behaviour of these "fans", our police feel unable to secure the safety of everyone, which of course is their prime responsibility. | |||
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"I just don't understand if people just "skip read" threads or just don't bother reading at all. As @Fabio has said a number of times, this was a policing and a footballing decision. The away fans of Maccabi Tel-Aviv have proved time and time again to just be a bunch of thugs. The fact that they happen to also be Jewish is their problem. Thugs are thugs the world over and football since the 1980's has treated them as such. If they want to go to away games, then just stop beating up people when away, ask the residents of Amsterdam. Very well said. Some of the regular posters on this politics forum, including the OP, are simply blind to the facts, only interested in pushing their nauseating nonsense despite numerous posters explaining why, in view of the past behaviour of these "fans", our police feel unable to secure the safety of everyone, which of course is their prime responsibility." As I mentioned above, the same fans went to a few other countries in Europe without any reports of violent behaviour. Why do you think it will happen in Birmingham? | |||
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"I just don't understand if people just "skip read" threads or just don't bother reading at all. As @Fabio has said a number of times, this was a policing and a footballing decision. The away fans of Maccabi Tel-Aviv have proved time and time again to just be a bunch of thugs. The fact that they happen to also be Jewish is their problem. Thugs are thugs the world over and football since the 1980's has treated them as such. If they want to go to away games, then just stop beating up people when away, ask the residents of Amsterdam." If you look into the issue you would discover the threat West Midlands police quoted was the trouble in Amsterdam... What happened there? Police infiltrated a a Whatsapp group containing 900 people who had organised themselves a violent group with the intent to attack the supporters when they arrived. Not football fans on football fans (hooligans), anti Israel who called it "Jew Hunt". the group was originally called Free Palestine! The truth is right in front of you, large groups of pro Palestinian people in Birmingham will attack visiting Jewish football fans, that is the main threat, not Villa fans, it is the local population. If people can't see this, they are delusional apologists. | |||
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" The truth is right in front of you, large groups of pro Palestinian people in Birmingham will attack visiting Jewish football fans, that is the main threat, not Villa fans, it is the local population. If people can't see this, they are delusional apologists. " The Birmingham Muslim Imam Asrar Rashid has called for "no mercy" for Tel Aviv fans | |||
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"Would it not have been less toxic to ban both sets of supporters to keep it even. Presumably this Israeli football team will never be allowed to have thier supporters at any future game anywhere outside Israel given the reputation that is claimed " It goes deeper than that. The threat of violence towards the visiting teams fans, is not based on club rivalry, it is grounded in anti Israel sentiment and the police not being in a position to uphold the the law. Where does this end, the threat of violence en masse disadvantages the threatened. We have walked this path before... | |||
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"Would it not have been less toxic to ban both sets of supporters to keep it even. Presumably this Israeli football team will never be allowed to have thier supporters at any future game anywhere outside Israel given the reputation that is claimed " Or cancel the match. It is not the opposing team or its supporters making threats on tel aviv supporters Where does this leave other sports | |||
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"This is not about football fans, this is clearly about the lack of capabilities West Midlands police have in protecting jewish people from people in Birmingham. All teams have fans that are thugs, but not all fans are thugs, and those people who are trying to wrap up the behaviour of a subset of fans as an excuse for supporting the ban need to have a long hard think. What has happened to this country that we can't protect Jewish people from visiting Birmingham, by not being able to uphold the law we simply ban them from attending. How must Jewish people feel that live in Birmingham today! We are an embarrassment, bending to threats, empowering the behaviour of violence by punishing those that violence is intended for. It’s a football safety decision hijacked by politicians for their own self service Even here domestically… football safety decisions are not uncommon, be that limiting the amount of fans… or no fans, or the changing of kick off times As a person who lives in Newcastle I know what has happened here on Tyne wear Derby days… from the full exclusion of away fans, to the military operation they now do busing fans to from the ground, and the march to/from the stations to the stadiums! You make it sound like there are no Jewish fans of other clubs out there! " Exactly right. There's a large assumption that Spurs has a large Jewish fanbase. Hasn't been one single complaint regarding anti senitism chanting towards their fans! Also it's a couple of hundred fans if that. It's not like all Jewish people in England are all die hard fans of a random Israeli club! | |||
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"This is not about football fans, this is clearly about the lack of capabilities West Midlands police have in protecting jewish people from people in Birmingham. All teams have fans that are thugs, but not all fans are thugs, and those people who are trying to wrap up the behaviour of a subset of fans as an excuse for supporting the ban need to have a long hard think. What has happened to this country that we can't protect Jewish people from visiting Birmingham, by not being able to uphold the law we simply ban them from attending. How must Jewish people feel that live in Birmingham today! We are an embarrassment, bending to threats, empowering the behaviour of violence by punishing those that violence is intended for. It’s a football safety decision hijacked by politicians for their own self service Even here domestically… football safety decisions are not uncommon, be that limiting the amount of fans… or no fans, or the changing of kick off times As a person who lives in Newcastle I know what has happened here on Tyne wear Derby days… from the full exclusion of away fans, to the military operation they now do busing fans to from the ground, and the march to/from the stations to the stadiums! You make it sound like there are no Jewish fans of other clubs out there! Exactly right. There's a large assumption that Spurs has a large Jewish fanbase. Hasn't been one single complaint regarding anti senitism chanting towards their fans! Also it's a couple of hundred fans if that. It's not like all Jewish people in England are all die hard fans of a random Israeli club! " Do you understand the issue? | |||
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"I just don't understand if people just "skip read" threads or just don't bother reading at all. As @Fabio has said a number of times, this was a policing and a footballing decision. The away fans of Maccabi Tel-Aviv have proved time and time again to just be a bunch of thugs. The fact that they happen to also be Jewish is their problem. Thugs are thugs the world over and football since the 1980's has treated them as such. If they want to go to away games, then just stop beating up people when away, ask the residents of Amsterdam. If you look into the issue you would discover the threat West Midlands police quoted was the trouble in Amsterdam... What happened there? Police infiltrated a a Whatsapp group containing 900 people who had organised themselves a violent group with the intent to attack the supporters when they arrived. Not football fans on football fans (hooligans), anti Israel who called it "Jew Hunt". the group was originally called Free Palestine! The truth is right in front of you, large groups of pro Palestinian people in Birmingham will attack visiting Jewish football fans, that is the main threat, not Villa fans, it is the local population. If people can't see this, they are delusional apologists. " I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis." I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying?" Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests." I 100% agree with you on the horror of what was done in Gaza. I agree Israel should be banned from international sport like South Africa was. I 100% disagree in violence in our streets. You should be ashamed at thinking that is acceptable. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests." So, if I understand your logic correctly, anyone who is pro-Israel is within their rights to kick the fuck out of anyone who is pro-Palestine? Just asking for a friend. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests. So, if I understand your logic correctly, anyone who is pro-Israel is within their rights to kick the fuck out of anyone who is pro-Palestine? Just asking for a friend." No that's your logic. I have said people are sick of mass killing and the narrative behind it, I am saying people know they are being lied to. I am saying I am not surprised if people kick off at the Israelis who preach hate and violence in other countries, we did not tolerate hooligans it in the 80's, it seems the police in Birmingham won't even tolerate this so they have banned them. Shows what they are to me which is a risk. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests. So, if I understand your logic correctly, anyone who is pro-Israel is within their rights to kick the fuck out of anyone who is pro-Palestine? Just asking for a friend. No that's your logic. I have said people are sick of mass killing and the narrative behind it, I am saying people know they are being lied to. I am saying I am not surprised if people kick off at the Israelis who preach hate and violence in other countries, we did not tolerate hooligans it in the 80's, it seems the police in Birmingham won't even tolerate this so they have banned them. Shows what they are to me which is a risk." Let’s be quite clear: you are not saying you are “not suprised” at violence from other people. You were quite clear to me that you support it. To your credit at least you have openly stated what a lot of others on here privately think. The problem is you cannot be selective at what violence you support. You clearly think this is “good” violence. I bet you did not think that the violence during the Southport riots was even remotely acceptable and yet they would use the same weak arguments about “not being listened to”. You are either for street disorder or against. I am against it. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests. So, if I understand your logic correctly, anyone who is pro-Israel is within their rights to kick the fuck out of anyone who is pro-Palestine? Just asking for a friend. No that's your logic. I have said people are sick of mass killing and the narrative behind it, I am saying people know they are being lied to. I am saying I am not surprised if people kick off at the Israelis who preach hate and violence in other countries, we did not tolerate hooligans it in the 80's, it seems the police in Birmingham won't even tolerate this so they have banned them. Shows what they are to me which is a risk. Let’s be quite clear: you are not saying you are “not suprised” at violence from other people. You were quite clear to me that you support it. To your credit at least you have openly stated what a lot of others on here privately think. The problem is you cannot be selective at what violence you support. You clearly think this is “good” violence. I bet you did not think that the violence during the Southport riots was even remotely acceptable and yet they would use the same weak arguments about “not being listened to”. You are either for street disorder or against. I am against it." You are saying I support violence . I am saying I am not surprised, that there will be violence, as Israel has spent two years killing women and children innocent people. I am saying hooligans are not welcome. I am saying the police see theses fans as a risk. I am saying the police saw them as such a risk they have banned them. Any other words are yours and shows where you are trying to steer this debate. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests. So, if I understand your logic correctly, anyone who is pro-Israel is within their rights to kick the fuck out of anyone who is pro-Palestine? Just asking for a friend. No that's your logic. I have said people are sick of mass killing and the narrative behind it, I am saying people know they are being lied to. I am saying I am not surprised if people kick off at the Israelis who preach hate and violence in other countries, we did not tolerate hooligans it in the 80's, it seems the police in Birmingham won't even tolerate this so they have banned them. Shows what they are to me which is a risk. Let’s be quite clear: you are not saying you are “not suprised” at violence from other people. You were quite clear to me that you support it. To your credit at least you have openly stated what a lot of others on here privately think. The problem is you cannot be selective at what violence you support. You clearly think this is “good” violence. I bet you did not think that the violence during the Southport riots was even remotely acceptable and yet they would use the same weak arguments about “not being listened to”. You are either for street disorder or against. I am against it. You are saying I support violence . I am saying I am not surprised, that there will be violence, as Israel has spent two years killing women and children innocent people. I am saying hooligans are not welcome. I am saying the police see theses fans as a risk. I am saying the police saw them as such a risk they have banned them. Any other words are yours and shows where you are trying to steer this debate. " ? I asked if you were ok with the violence. You said yes. | |||
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" You are saying I support violence . I am saying I am not surprised, that there will be violence, as Israel has spent two years killing women and children innocent people. " Will you apply this logic to the Islamic countries having death penalty for gays? Maybe we should people from those countries from coming here for sports too? " I am saying hooligans are not welcome. " Will you apply this logic to the Moroccan fans too? " I am saying the police see theses fans as a risk. " Will you be fine if the police bans an African team because the city is full of racists and the police see this as a threat? | |||
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" You are saying I support violence . I am saying I am not surprised, that there will be violence, as Israel has spent two years killing women and children innocent people. Will you apply this logic to the Islamic countries having death penalty for gays? Maybe we should people from those countries from coming here for sports too? I am saying hooligans are not welcome. Will you apply this logic to the Moroccan fans too? I am saying the police see theses fans as a risk. Will you be fine if the police bans an African team because the city is full of racists and the police see this as a threat? " These are your words. I am ok with violence because Israel are ok with violence. Anything else are your words. Your narrative. The facts are simple, our police force has deemed these football fans as a risk as such they have decided to ban them. Do not like it tough it is happened. | |||
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" You are saying I support violence . I am saying I am not surprised, that there will be violence, as Israel has spent two years killing women and children innocent people. Will you apply this logic to the Islamic countries having death penalty for gays? Maybe we should people from those countries from coming here for sports too? I am saying hooligans are not welcome. Will you apply this logic to the Moroccan fans too? I am saying the police see theses fans as a risk. Will you be fine if the police bans an African team because the city is full of racists and the police see this as a threat? These are your words. I am ok with violence because Israel are ok with violence. Anything else are your words. Your narrative. The facts are simple, our police force has deemed these football fans as a risk as such they have decided to ban them. Do not like it tough it is happened." The top of this thread is you complaining that someone said you supported violence. You end by saying you support violence  | |||
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" You are saying I support violence . I am saying I am not surprised, that there will be violence, as Israel has spent two years killing women and children innocent people. Will you apply this logic to the Islamic countries having death penalty for gays? Maybe we should people from those countries from coming here for sports too? I am saying hooligans are not welcome. Will you apply this logic to the Moroccan fans too? I am saying the police see theses fans as a risk. Will you be fine if the police bans an African team because the city is full of racists and the police see this as a threat? These are your words. I am ok with violence because Israel are ok with violence. Anything else are your words. Your narrative. The facts are simple, our police force has deemed these football fans as a risk as such they have decided to ban them. Do not like it tough it is happened. The top of this thread is you complaining that someone said you supported violence. You end by saying you support violence "They are banned simple. Twist my words as you will, but you cannot twist that they are banned. And that seems to be an issue for you, and others on this thread. | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests." You have labelled and support the idea that every Israeli is a legitimate target for violence. I have no idea what has happened to people in this country! Radicalised to the extent of supporting violence against a whole group of people, why?? | |||
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"good, after their violent rampage in amsterdam. there's no place for violent idiots in football. it doesn't matter which team these kinds of people think they represent, keep them out i say. "I presume you would be supportive of a ban on the Moroccan fans if their national team has a game in UK, considering their violent rampage in different countries during the last world cup. Because there is no place for violent idiots in football right? | |||
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"I do not usually agree with you I find your narrative vile, but this time I do agree. I agree that any Israelis who visit Birmingham will be attacked, as people I know are disgusted with Israeli rhetoric, as a means of killing on mass. It about time the calls for banning Israel from sport are acted on, its about time people know the reach and money Israel has on our politics. Thank my god that the police have unmasked the Israeli reach by banning them and the government has been shown to be puppets of the Israelis. I am not sure I quite understand what you are saying. 1. You agree that people will attack these fans. 2. You are ok with that. Is that what you are saying? Yes Yes. People are disgusted with anti this and that whilst seeing the mass murder of a population. With government approval not given at the ballot box. So people will take things into their own hands as they have in the past, this is a sign of not being governed in our/their own interests. You have labelled and support the idea that every Israeli is a legitimate target for violence. I have no idea what has happened to people in this country! Radicalised to the extent of supporting violence against a whole group of people, why??" They are banned why because they have caused violence in other cities and damage to property. The trick is to make others like me to be the bad one, not a group of banned hooligans, because I agree that these thugs be banned. | |||
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"good, after their violent rampage in amsterdam. there's no place for violent idiots in football. it doesn't matter which team these kinds of people think they represent, keep them out i say.
I presume you would be supportive of a ban on the Moroccan fans if their national team has a game in UK, considering their violent rampage in different countries during the last world cup. Because there is no place for violent idiots in football right?"It is not about Morocco is it? It is about trying to find support for a banned group of hooligans. Let me tell you there is no support for thugs never has been never will. If you want to blame other races or religions, it comes from your mouth not mine, for me it is about hooligans who are banned and rightly so. Don't like it tough. | |||
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"good, after their violent rampage in amsterdam. there's no place for violent idiots in football. it doesn't matter which team these kinds of people think they represent, keep them out i say.
I presume you would be supportive of a ban on the Moroccan fans if their national team has a game in UK, considering their violent rampage in different countries during the last world cup. Because there is no place for violent idiots in football right?"Absolutely…. The West Midlands police and the supporters action group decided the game is “high risk” … that should be the end of the story If you want a comparison… a uk one… AS Roma as a quirk of scheduling are supposed to playing 2 games in Glasgow as part of the Europa League… one at Celtic, one at Rangers The Scottish police and the supporters action group have decided that both games are “high risk” and their recommendation is that Roma fan be not at either game Roma fans will not be at either game! Are we anti Italian now? Frankfurt fans were not in Napoli Ajax fans were not in Marseille Feyernord fans will not be in Lille In the last couple of years Chelsea fans have been stopped going to Israel, West Ham fans have been stopped going to Austria, and Leeds fans have been stopped going to Germany… because it was deemed one way or another high risk Jewish fans are not being stopped going to Villa park…. Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are being stopped… there is a difference! You mention Morocco fans… people seem to forget England fans were stopped going away because they were deemed high risk | |||
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"Cut and paste from wiki, on the Amsterdam riots, seems appropriate to add context and the uk police position: The evening before the match, Maccabi Tel Aviv fans were filmed pulling Palestinian flags from houses, making racist anti-Arab chants such as "death to Arabs", assaulting people, and vandalising local property. Plans to attack Israeli fans were subsequently shared through messaging apps with one chat calling for a "Jew hunt". After the match, Maccabi fans were ambushed and assaulted across the city centre, while a group of Maccabi fans around Damrak was recorded assaulting people and vandalising local property. The attacks on Israeli fans were condemned as antisemitic by Amsterdam mayor Femke Halsema, Dutch prime minister Dick Schoof, King Willem-Alexander, and several international leaders. The failure to condemn the Israeli fans' attacks, and the characterisation of such condemnation as "antisemitic", was also described as being one-sided." Actually you missed one last bit of the story Because of the rush to claim everything was antisemitic… 3 days after those comments and more video came out , the mayor of Amsterdam and various Dutch government ministers apologised to the people of Amsterdam for their rush to judgment as to what happened By that point all the Israeli suspects that had been recognised in the violent activities had been rushed out of the country on planes supplied by the Israeli government | |||
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"good, after their violent rampage in amsterdam. there's no place for violent idiots in football. it doesn't matter which team these kinds of people think they represent, keep them out i say.
I presume you would be supportive of a ban on the Moroccan fans if their national team has a game in UK, considering their violent rampage in different countries during the last world cup. Because there is no place for violent idiots in football right?
Absolutely…. The West Midlands police and the supporters action group decided the game is “high risk” … that should be the end of the story
If you want a comparison… a uk one…
AS Roma as a quirk of scheduling are supposed to playing 2 games in Glasgow as part of the Europa League… one at Celtic, one at Rangers
The Scottish police and the supporters action group have decided that both games are “high risk” and their recommendation is that Roma fan be not at either game
Roma fans will not be at either game!
Are we anti Italian now?
Frankfurt fans were not in Napoli
Ajax fans were not in Marseille
Feyernord fans will not be in Lille
In the last couple of years Chelsea fans have been stopped going to Israel, West Ham fans have been stopped going to Austria, and Leeds fans have been stopped going to Germany… because it was deemed one way or another high risk
Jewish fans are not being stopped going to Villa park…. Maccabi Tel Aviv fans are being stopped… there is a difference!
You mention Morocco fans… people seem to forget England fans were stopped going away because they were deemed high risk "The Amsterdam incident happened in last November. After that, Tel Aviv fans have been to numerous European countries for games. What makes Birmingham so special that the police believe there is a problem? | |||
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" The Amsterdam incident happened in last November. After that, Tel Aviv fans have been to numerous European countries for games. What makes Birmingham so special that the police believe there is a problem?" They have been at other games abroad They played one in Athens… and there were incidents of trouble there They were supposed to play against a Turkish side in Istanbul…but the Turkish authorities deemed that game to be so high risk, it was moved to Hungary and played behind closed doors! | |||
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" The Amsterdam incident happened in last November. After that, Tel Aviv fans have been to numerous European countries for games. What makes Birmingham so special that the police believe there is a problem? They have been at other games abroad They played one in Athens… and there were incidents of trouble there " Can you share the source? I couldn't find any. " They were supposed to play against a Turkish side in Istanbul…but the Turkish authorities deemed that game to be so high risk, it was moved to Hungary and played behind closed doors! " If the problem was just with the fans, why didn't they ban all the fans and play it in Turkey itself, instead of moving it to Hungary? | |||
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"Blackburn MP backing the Tel Aviv football fans ban says ‘hating Israel isn’t enough’ Adnan Hussain claims Israel is ‘monstrous’ and those who disagree do not ‘see Muslims as human’" It’s interesting to see Adnan Hussain positioning himself as a moral voice here, given his history of targeting other minority groups. When someone already known for that kind of rhetoric starts deciding which groups “count,” it’s less about justice and more about picking which form of hate to legitimise. | |||
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"A significant amount of people in Birmingham can't be trusted not to attack Jewish football fans, enough to overwhelm the police, is that a valid question? " We do have a large Muslim community to which the majority are peaceful like all the other races in the city (including the white British) the problem will outside pro Palestine groups and anti Israel groups flocking into the city. Combined with the nasty nature of their fans. They are ultra right wing and the combination will mean innocents will be at risk . I will attending as attending as a Villa fan not a political activist | |||
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"It turns out the decision to ban Maccabi Tel Aviv fans stemmed from intelligence shared by the European Policing Network to West Midlands Police via Europol regarding the danger posed by Maccabi Tel Aviv fans. It is for this reason that there was a 'high risk' designation because of violent incidents that had occurred elsewhere in Europe perpetrated by Maccabi Tel Aviv fans, not just the major incident in Amsterdam, but also smaller incidents in both Athens and Cyprus " Still waiting for the link/source to these "smaller incidents" in Athens and Cyprus you are talking about. | |||
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"A significant amount of people in Birmingham can't be trusted not to attack Jewish football fans, enough to overwhelm the police, is that a valid question? " Birmingham do not want to host hooligans, proven hooligans who wherever these hooligans go cause trouble, violence and criminal damage. | |||
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"Who cares.... "People who see the threat of violence and intimidation being rewarded. | |||
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"Isn't the real threat the inability to police the pro Palestine groups? They can and do police hooligans weekly... Aston Villa said Thursday that police had informed the club that “they have public safety concerns outside the stadium bowl and the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night.” West Midlands Police said it had deemed the match to be high risk “based on current intelligence and previous incidents,” including violence and hate crimes that took place when Maccabi Tel Aviv played Ajax in Amsterdam last season. Amsterdam police and prosecutors said "antisemitic" rioters "actively sought out" Israeli supporters to attack and assault them. " No the real threat is to allow proven hooligans, to attend a football match where our police have deemed high risk. It is not really rocket science. No one else to blame really than the hooligans who travel the world causing fear and destruction and criminal damage. It is much better knowing when causing fear and destruction that your country will fly in planes to help escape justice. | |||
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" Birmingham do not want to host hooligans, proven hooligans who wherever these hooligans go cause trouble, violence and criminal damage. " Host them? That city produced some of the most violent hooligans this country has ever seen. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. " You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too." To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too." i think you'll find that i included that line or you wouldn't have been able to cut and paste it into a lame response. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot." The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line? 
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. i think you'll find that i included that line or you wouldn't have been able to cut and paste it into a lame response. "It's not hard to understand the point I was making. You shared the statement that literally said that they have problems with protestors and doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans. And yet, in the same post, you have interpreted it to somehow means that Maccabi fans are the problem. Some serious mental gymnastics going on there. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there."You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it. You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there."Are these fans from England, no they are not so they must be away fans right as in the statement. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision."fact is they haven't been banned by the football authorities they have been banned by local council and police because they can't garentee there safety from the locals of a certain religion as they can never keep there emotions under control | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision."Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
Are these fans from England, no they are not so they must be away fans right as in the statement.
"The statement doesn't say anything specific about the away fans either. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.fact is they haven't been banned by the football authorities they have been banned by local council and police because they can't garentee there safety from the locals of a certain religion as they can never keep there emotions under control"They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet."Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself  you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well…. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well…."I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all. If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there."If the Israeli supporters are allowed to travel to Birmingham, it is going to expose clearly the antisemitism that is rife in this country, is my guess. They will travel from all over the country to do harm, and that is the actual problem.... It will be the same scenario playing out as what the leftists affectionately call "flag shaggers" who arrive at migrant hotels. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
If the Israeli supporters are allowed to travel to Birmingham, it is going to expose clearly the antisemitism that is rife in this country, is my guess.
They will travel from all over the country to do harm, and that is the actual problem.... It will be the same scenario playing out as what the leftists affectionately call "flag shaggers" who arrive at migrant hotels. "Don't worry. They will just rebrand it as "anti-zionism". The anti-flag-shaggers will obviously be out there among a sea of Palestine flags, ironically. | |||
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Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In summary: 1. Threat of violence from Maccabi fans 2. Threat of violence from wider community About the only people who aren’t seen as causing trouble are the Villa fans?" This and 3. Egged on by Blackburn MP who says ‘hating Israel isn’t enough’ | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well….
I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all.
If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time."So I take it you didn’t read any of the articles then… if not that’s not my fault I can’t help you! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In summary: 1. Threat of violence from Maccabi fans 2. Threat of violence from wider community About the only people who aren’t seen as causing trouble are the Villa fans? This and 3. Egged on by Blackburn MP who says ‘hating Israel isn’t enough’" I think that is covered by threats from the wider community. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well….
I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all.
If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time.
So I take it you didn’t read any of the articles then… if not that’s not my fault I can’t help you! "Most of the articles discuss the upcoming match. You have to say which website and which title. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" If the Israeli supporters are allowed to travel to Birmingham, it is going to expose clearly the antisemitism that is rife in this country, is my guess. " On balance the ban is probably safest for everyone. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"In summary: 1. Threat of violence from Maccabi fans 2. Threat of violence from wider community About the only people who aren’t seen as causing trouble are the Villa fans? This and 3. Egged on by Blackburn MP who says ‘hating Israel isn’t enough’" Fair summary. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well….
I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all.
If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time.
So I take it you didn’t read any of the articles then… if not that’s not my fault I can’t help you!
Most of the articles discuss the upcoming match. You have to say which website and which title."Jesus fucking Christ…. Literally have to do it all From 5 pillars… Maccabi tel Aviv , history of anti Arab racism and hooliganism From middle eastern eye… why Maccabi tel aviv fans, with record of violent rampages, were really banned Football grounds guide…violets scenes in Athens as fight breaks out ahead of European clash Do you want some of the Greek publications as well! | |||
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" If the Israeli supporters are allowed to travel to Birmingham, it is going to expose clearly the antisemitism that is rife in this country, is my guess. On balance the ban is probably safest for everyone. " The ban is not safe for society. Rewarding threats of violence from large ideological groups is a slippery slope that we are already on and it is getting worse. | |||
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"In summary: 1. Threat of violence from Maccabi fans 2. Threat of violence from wider community About the only people who aren’t seen as causing trouble are the Villa fans? This and 3. Egged on by Blackburn MP who says ‘hating Israel isn’t enough’ I think that is covered by threats from the wider community." I think those potential threats have been significantly worsened by some people with influence, including but not limited to the Imman, Blackburn MP, media bias and Israel themselves have not covered themselves in glory bringing this about. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" If the Israeli supporters are allowed to travel to Birmingham, it is going to expose clearly the antisemitism that is rife in this country, is my guess. On balance the ban is probably safest for everyone. The ban is not safe for society. Rewarding threats of violence from large ideological groups is a slippery slope that we are already on and it is getting worse." Images of tel Aviv fans and others being arrested for violence on the media can only make things worse. Prevention is best imo. I am speaking as an Airbnb operator who 18 months ago had an Israeli family staying. Outside their apartment a swastika was drawn on the wall. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well….
I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all.
If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time.
So I take it you didn’t read any of the articles then… if not that’s not my fault I can’t help you!
Most of the articles discuss the upcoming match. You have to say which website and which title.
Jesus fucking Christ…. Literally have to do it all
From 5 pillars… Maccabi tel Aviv , history of anti Arab racism and hooliganism
From middle eastern eye… why Maccabi tel aviv fans, with record of violent rampages, were really banned
Football grounds guide…violets scenes in Athens as fight breaks out ahead of European clash
Do you want some of the Greek publications as well! "You are quoting 5 Pillars, a source that is pro Palestine and Islamic biased, who is using emotive story telling to blur the narrative in their favour. This is a poor example to provide! | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well….
I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all.
If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time.
So I take it you didn’t read any of the articles then… if not that’s not my fault I can’t help you!
Most of the articles discuss the upcoming match. You have to say which website and which title.
Jesus fucking Christ…. Literally have to do it all
From 5 pillars… Maccabi tel Aviv , history of anti Arab racism and hooliganism
From middle eastern eye… why Maccabi tel aviv fans, with record of violent rampages, were really banned
Football grounds guide…violets scenes in Athens as fight breaks out ahead of European clash
Do you want some of the Greek publications as well! "Jesus fucking Christ! Do you even open the articles and read them before making these posts? All these articles, when talking about Athens, point to the same video that was posted in someone's social media as a source. The video doesn't show anything about how or why the fight started. The person who posted it just said that it started because someone voiced something supportive of Palestine. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.
Fabio hasn't corrected me. I have asked for sources of his claims, which he hasn't shared yet.
Google is your friend my friend if you want to look them up yourself you can type in Maccabi tel Aviv Athens and you will see some graphics videos as well….
I just see one 40 seconds Instagram video posted by some pro-arab accounts showing someone being beaten. The poster of the video says it's because the person was showing Palestine flag but the video doesn't show anything at all.
If this is all the "source" you have, please don't make fun of daily mail readers next time.
So I take it you didn’t read any of the articles then… if not that’s not my fault I can’t help you!
Most of the articles discuss the upcoming match. You have to say which website and which title.
Jesus fucking Christ…. Literally have to do it all
From 5 pillars… Maccabi tel Aviv , history of anti Arab racism and hooliganism
From middle eastern eye… why Maccabi tel aviv fans, with record of violent rampages, were really banned
Football grounds guide…violets scenes in Athens as fight breaks out ahead of European clash
Do you want some of the Greek publications as well!
You are quoting 5 Pillars, a source that is pro Palestine and Islamic biased, who is using emotive story telling to blur the narrative in their favour.
This is a poor example to provide!"You should read some of the other stuff that 5pillars posts, especially on the LGBTQ topic. You will consider GBNews to be on center left on this topic after that | |||
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"Who cares....
People who see the threat of violence and intimidation being rewarded. "just another day at the office for modern society then... wont change...never will | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.fact is they haven't been banned by the football authorities they have been banned by local council and police because they can't garentee there safety from the locals of a certain religion as they can never keep there emotions under control
They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple."yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's | |||
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" They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's " Oh, you mean those “certain communities” the police don’t want to upset — the ones who spend their weekends waving the St George’s Cross, chanting on the high street, and somehow always get guided home instead of arrested? Yeah, I’ve noticed they get handled pretty gently too. | |||
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" They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's Oh, you mean those “certain communities” the police don’t want to upset — the ones who spend their weekends waving the St George’s Cross, chanting on the high street, and somehow always get guided home instead of arrested? Yeah, I’ve noticed they get handled pretty gently too." really I see the hope not hate lot getting taken to and from by the police then see the same old bill in full riot gear going into the hotel protesters,but I suppose someone as confused as yourself will always see things back to front | |||
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"In summary: 1. Threat of violence from Maccabi fans 2. Threat of violence from wider community About the only people who aren’t seen as causing trouble are the Villa fans? This and 3. Egged on by Blackburn MP who says ‘hating Israel isn’t enough’" Comments like that from the Blackburn MP are not going to help anything, he is supposed to be a leader, he should be ashamed. Regarding the problems listed listed above, potential trouble from the Maccabi fans and potential trouble from the wider community. Is the ban due to them both being potential problems or would one be enough to cause this ban | |||
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" They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's Oh, you mean those “certain communities” the police don’t want to upset — the ones who spend their weekends waving the St George’s Cross, chanting on the high street, and somehow always get guided home instead of arrested? Yeah, I’ve noticed they get handled pretty gently too.really I see the hope not hate lot getting taken to and from by the police then see the same old bill in full riot gear going into the hotel protesters,but I suppose someone as confused as yourself will always see things back to front" Oh yes, the Hope Not Hate crowd really get it easy — arrested for saying there’s a genocide, no violence involved. Doesn’t matter if they’re disabled, elderly, or otherwise vulnerable. Meanwhile the flag-wavers get to harass minorities left and right with impunity. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's Oh, you mean those “certain communities” the police don’t want to upset — the ones who spend their weekends waving the St George’s Cross, chanting on the high street, and somehow always get guided home instead of arrested? Yeah, I’ve noticed they get handled pretty gently too.really I see the hope not hate lot getting taken to and from by the police then see the same old bill in full riot gear going into the hotel protesters,but I suppose someone as confused as yourself will always see things back to front Oh yes, the Hope Not Hate crowd really get it easy — arrested for saying there’s a genocide, no violence involved. Doesn’t matter if they’re disabled, elderly, or otherwise vulnerable. Meanwhile the flag-wavers get to harass minorities left and right with impunity." Exactly what the pro Palestine mob will do if the Israeli supporters are allowed to visit. They are fascists but scream everyone else is a fascist, awfully stupid people. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's Oh, you mean those “certain communities” the police don’t want to upset — the ones who spend their weekends waving the St George’s Cross, chanting on the high street, and somehow always get guided home instead of arrested? Yeah, I’ve noticed they get handled pretty gently too.really I see the hope not hate lot getting taken to and from by the police then see the same old bill in full riot gear going into the hotel protesters,but I suppose someone as confused as yourself will always see things back to front Oh yes, the Hope Not Hate crowd really get it easy — arrested for saying there’s a genocide, no violence involved. Doesn’t matter if they’re disabled, elderly, or otherwise vulnerable. Meanwhile the flag-wavers get to harass minorities left and right with impunity." you are deluded the hope not hate lot ain't getting arrested for saying there is a genocide the people getting arrested are mainly pensioners with nothing better to do with there time showing support for a proscribed organisation, you know breaking the law or do you think wrinkles should not be arrested for breaking the law | |||
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"They are fascists but scream everyone else is a fascist, awfully stupid people." Fascism, by definition (Oxford/Merriam-Webster), is: “An authoritarian and ultranationalist movement that suppresses opposition, enforces conformity through intimidation or violence, and promotes the dominance of one group or nation over others.” Now, let’s look at the behaviours we’ve seen: Pro-Palestine protesters: Calling for an end to civilian killings, humanitarian access, and accountability under international law. Far-right flag mobs: Chanting nationalist slogans, harassing minorities, and turning up to intimidate peaceful demonstrators. So, honestly — which of those sounds closer to fascism? | |||
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" They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's Oh, you mean those “certain communities” the police don’t want to upset — the ones who spend their weekends waving the St George’s Cross, chanting on the high street, and somehow always get guided home instead of arrested? Yeah, I’ve noticed they get handled pretty gently too.really I see the hope not hate lot getting taken to and from by the police then see the same old bill in full riot gear going into the hotel protesters,but I suppose someone as confused as yourself will always see things back to front Oh yes, the Hope Not Hate crowd really get it easy — arrested for saying there’s a genocide, no violence involved. Doesn’t matter if they’re disabled, elderly, or otherwise vulnerable. Meanwhile the flag-wavers get to harass minorities left and right with impunity.you are deluded the hope not hate lot ain't getting arrested for saying there is a genocide the people getting arrested are mainly pensioners with nothing better to do with there time showing support for a proscribed organisation, you know breaking the law or do you think wrinkles should not be arrested for breaking the law" Some of those arrested at recent pro-Palestine demonstrations weren’t connected to any proscribed group at all. In several confirmed cases, people were detained simply for carrying flags or placards with political slogans — or for being in the same area as protesters later linked to Palestine Action. Even the Met Police and independent legal observers have acknowledged that a number of arrests were made under broad public-order powers rather than terrorism laws. Human-rights groups like Liberty and Amnesty have warned that this kind of policing risks criminalising peaceful dissent. It’s worth noting that Palestine Action was proscribed for targeting arms manufacturers, not for violence against people. Whether that decision was proportionate remains a matter of debate among legal experts. There’s a clear difference between maintaining public order and suppressing protest — and that distinction is important if we want to keep public trust in the law itself. | |||
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"They are fascists but scream everyone else is a fascist, awfully stupid people. Fascism, by definition (Oxford/Merriam-Webster), is: “An authoritarian and ultranationalist movement that suppresses opposition, enforces conformity through intimidation or violence, and promotes the dominance of one group or nation over others.” Now, let’s look at the behaviours we’ve seen: Pro-Palestine protesters: Calling for an end to civilian killings, humanitarian access, and accountability under international law. Far-right flag mobs: Chanting nationalist slogans, harassing minorities, and turning up to intimidate peaceful demonstrators. So, honestly — which of those sounds closer to fascism?" The example of fascism at the start of your post is exactly what is happening with the banning of Israeli football fans. When LLM takes away the freedom of thought... | |||
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"They are fascists but scream everyone else is a fascist, awfully stupid people. Fascism, by definition (Oxford/Merriam-Webster), is: “An authoritarian and ultranationalist movement that suppresses opposition, enforces conformity through intimidation or violence, and promotes the dominance of one group or nation over others.” Now, let’s look at the behaviours we’ve seen: Pro-Palestine protesters: Calling for an end to civilian killings, humanitarian access, and accountability under international law. Far-right flag mobs: Chanting nationalist slogans, harassing minorities, and turning up to intimidate peaceful demonstrators. So, honestly — which of those sounds closer to fascism?" By your own definition, Pro-palestine protestors are fascists too. Maybe saying "Fuck the jews. R&pe their daughters" is not fascism after all: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/18/men-arrested-pro-palestine-london-convoy-linked-previous-anti/ Is this how you ask Israel to follow international law? | |||
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"In the box named irony and timing Anyone want to guess the reason why the tel Aviv derby between Maccabi and hapeol was abandoned this evening I’ll give you a clue… it wasn’t because a bout of rampant antisemitism broke out! "Local derby football team rivalry and hooliganism. what history is there between Aston Villa and Maccabi? I'm not sure why you chose this hill to die on? | |||
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"In the box named irony and timing Anyone want to guess the reason why the tel Aviv derby between Maccabi and hapeol was abandoned this evening I’ll give you a clue… it wasn’t because a bout of rampant antisemitism broke out!
Local derby football team rivalry and hooliganism.
what history is there between Aston Villa and Maccabi?
I'm not sure why you chose this hill to die on?
"A) people, especially politicians, questioning what was a policing safety issue… I expect them all to come out and apologise unreservedly… well… actually I expect them to turn tail and say wasn’t me, but that is where television, radio and social media is going to come back and bite them on the arse B) people who put 2 and 2 together and got 5 and pushed a narrative in the eyes of the police it was not about… it was about hooliganism first and foremost So , yep, quite happy to plant the flag on those ironic hills, people should relevant example of similar examples.. and some decided not to listen People even showed you previous … and some still decided not to listen It went in one ear… went out the other because they were so wedded to their beliefs | |||
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"In the box named irony and timing Anyone want to guess the reason why the tel Aviv derby between Maccabi and hapeol was abandoned this evening I’ll give you a clue… it wasn’t because a bout of rampant antisemitism broke out!
Local derby football team rivalry and hooliganism.
what history is there between Aston Villa and Maccabi?
I'm not sure why you chose this hill to die on?
A) people, especially politicians, questioning what was a policing safety issue… I expect them all to come out and apologise unreservedly… well… actually I expect them to turn tail and say wasn’t me, but that is where television, radio and social media is going to come back and bite them on the arse
B) people who put 2 and 2 together and got 5 and pushed a narrative in the eyes of the police it was not about… it was about hooliganism first and foremost
So , yep, quite happy to plant the flag on those ironic hills,
people should relevant example of similar examples.. and some decided not to listen
People even showed you previous … and some still decided not to listen
It went in one ear… went out the other because they were so wedded to their beliefs "If the ban is lifted we shall see where the problem is, and at that point we can discuss who was wedded to their ideas. | |||
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" If the ban is lifted we shall see where the problem is, and at that point we can discuss who was wedded to their ideas. " If??? …… Really??? After tonight… do you think there is going to be any appetite from anyone to still try and get this decision reversed? This is like gold for the safety action group and the West Midlands Police! | |||
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" If the ban is lifted we shall see where the problem is, and at that point we can discuss who was wedded to their ideas. If??? …… Really??? After tonight… do you think there is going to be any appetite from anyone to still try and get this decision reversed? This is like gold for the safety action group and the West Midlands Police! " I'm not sure. You have nailed your flag to hooliganism and I have nailed it to local (UK) violent protests. Unless the ban is lifted we will never know, but I have a feeling we might get an insight on the night even if they are banned. | |||
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" the wording shows that they take the threat of violent disorder by the self-confessed far-right hooligan firm 'Maccabi Fanatics' very seriously indeed and that they are intent on protecting the local community from similar violent disorder that is now routine at Maccabi fixtures across europe. You probably missed this line: "AND the ability to deal with any potential protests on the night." The statement doesn't say anything about Maccabi fans being the problem too. To all read Villas statement in full and not cherry picked lines. Villa has concerns for safety of supporters and local residents. This is about keeping the local residents safe their property safe, their children safe, their loved ones safe. Why? Because a band of hooligans seem to think they can go anywhere and cause trouble. Well here they cannot. The statement literally said that they will have problems with the protestors. It says nothing about the Maccabi supporters. And yet you are running off with the hooligans line?
The Maccabi supporters went for a few games in Europe recently. The "hooligans" didn't seem to have any problems there.
You have been corrected on this thread by Fabio and others regarding these thugs, and other clubs who have been banned, they are banned get used it.
You try to imply it is about protests, but with having known thugs international thugs in attendance I say the police are right in their decision.fact is they haven't been banned by the football authorities they have been banned by local council and police because they can't garentee there safety from the locals of a certain religion as they can never keep there emotions under control
They are still not allowed to attend it is that simple.yea because the natives will try to attack them and as we all know the police don't want to upset certain community's "They are banned and rightly so. | |||
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"In the box named irony and timing Anyone want to guess the reason why the tel Aviv derby between Maccabi and hapeol was abandoned this evening I’ll give you a clue… it wasn’t because a bout of rampant antisemitism broke out!
Local derby football team rivalry and hooliganism.
what history is there between Aston Villa and Maccabi?
I'm not sure why you chose this hill to die on?
A) people, especially politicians, questioning what was a policing safety issue… I expect them all to come out and apologise unreservedly… well… actually I expect them to turn tail and say wasn’t me, but that is where television, radio and social media is going to come back and bite them on the arse
B) people who put 2 and 2 together and got 5 and pushed a narrative in the eyes of the police it was not about… it was about hooliganism first and foremost
So , yep, quite happy to plant the flag on those ironic hills,
people should relevant example of similar examples.. and some decided not to listen
People even showed you previous … and some still decided not to listen
It went in one ear… went out the other because they were so wedded to their beliefs
If the ban is lifted we shall see where the problem is, and at that point we can discuss who was wedded to their ideas. "You hope, we all know, ban stays. | |||
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"Do you know the term “the silence is deafening “ That’s how I feel this morning Suddenly it’s seems to have gone awfully quiet " What would you expect to unfold if the ban is lifted? | |||
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"Do you know the term “the silence is deafening “ That’s how I feel this morning Suddenly it’s seems to have gone awfully quiet What would you expect to unfold if the ban is lifted?" In the here and now they are banned, due to events abroad on Sunday featuring these supporters KS could not risk lifting this ban by political pressure. Because these fans cannot be trusted to behave. | |||
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"Do you know the term “the silence is deafening “ That’s how I feel this morning Suddenly it’s seems to have gone awfully quiet " That's because most of us have made our points clear. It needs a lot of mental gymnastics to pretend like this has nothing to do with Birmingham and only to do with Maccabi fans. | |||
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"Do you know the term “the silence is deafening “ That’s how I feel this morning Suddenly it’s seems to have gone awfully quiet That's because most of us have made our points clear. It needs a lot of mental gymnastics to pretend like this has nothing to do with Birmingham and only to do with Maccabi fans." You keep believing that…. In the meantime I have a couple of spare tickets for a suddenly rearranged Tel Aviv derby you can have if you’re interested | |||
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"Do you know the term “the silence is deafening “ That’s how I feel this morning Suddenly it’s seems to have gone awfully quiet That's because most of us have made our points clear. It needs a lot of mental gymnastics to pretend like this has nothing to do with Birmingham and only to do with Maccabi fans." Birmingham has the right to protect themselves. The police have rightly done so as it is their job to protect the public especially from proven threats. | |||
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"Do you know the term “the silence is deafening “ That’s how I feel this morning Suddenly it’s seems to have gone awfully quiet That's because most of us have made our points clear. It needs a lot of mental gymnastics to pretend like this has nothing to do with Birmingham and only to do with Maccabi fans. You keep believing that…. In the meantime I have a couple of spare tickets for a suddenly rearranged Tel Aviv derby you can have if you’re interested " Let me guess. You found the tickets on some Instagram video and believed they are real? | |||
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"Government have released a statement saying they think the ban on Maccabi tel Aviv fans is wrong, however it is a matter for the police … And the backpedal slowly begins…." I wonder if the friendly pro palestine mobs will backpedal on the night, or will they take their usual morally justified hate and violence to Birmingham, I wonder? | |||
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"It seems that the government are working to ensure Maccabe fans can attend the game at Villa. Perry Barr MP Ayoub Khan has described the fans as “hooligans who show no mercy” and demanded that Kier apologises for his criticism of the ban. In today’s local news - Express and star " Starmer was quick to object to the ban and try to get it overturned. Presumably he was told the reason for the ban is due to the reputation of the fans from Israel only, so not a great outcome for him whatever happens now. | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj971rwyzlgo.amp Lisa Nandy: "the risk assessment is based in no small part on the risk posed to those fans that are attending to support Maccabi Tel Aviv because they are Israeli and because they are Jewish" Are people still going to stick with their argument that hooliganism of Maccabi fans is the only reason for the ban?" Anyone with an ounce of sense knows what the risks are, and to see the usual heads in the sand is not surprising. It is all academic now, Maccabi Tel Aviv are not going to take any tickets due to concerns for their supporters safety, what a country we live in... | |||
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"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj971rwyzlgo.amp Lisa Nandy: "the risk assessment is based in no small part on the risk posed to those fans that are attending to support Maccabi Tel Aviv because they are Israeli and because they are Jewish" Are people still going to stick with their argument that hooliganism of Maccabi fans is the only reason for the ban? Anyone with an ounce of sense knows what the risks are, and to see the usual heads in the sand is not surprising. It is all academic now, Maccabi Tel Aviv are not going to take any tickets due to concerns for their supporters safety, what a country we live in..." Yes, I’ve just read the article. The Maccabi tel aviv will not be taking any tickets as they feel that the wellbeing and safety of their fans is paramount. Basically, they are fearing for their fans safety in Birmingham. I’m not surprised that they have taken this stance, especially after clerics calling for “no mercy”…….. | |||
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"We heard it had a lot to do with Tel Aviv fans behaviour towards certain communities. It's not just the simple 'because they're Israeli' bullshit media is trying to frame it as." It sounds like it’s for their own protection. The fans would be very outnumbered in that area of Birmingham. If they were to look for trouble, they’ll obviously find it easily judging by some of the comments I’m hearing. | |||
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"An interesting story published today about how the decisions were made to ban the Israeli fans. Are we getting to the real reason now? https://www.expressandstar.com/news/politics/2025/11/25/watchdog-to-review-football-decision-making-after-reports-maccabi-tel-aviv-aston-villa-ban-based-on-false-intelligence/" Some of these points covered here in Nicole's link. | |||
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"Bumping this because of new revelations about the real reason for the ban. - WMP consulted mosques which had hosted anti semitic preachers. - Local Muslim Councillors told police 'the community want it stopped'. - Police falsely claimed Jewish Community Groups supported the ban. - Police then invented reasons for the ban using false claims about Amsterdam events (since denied by Dutch police) and even using AI to produce false information, including references to a match between West Ham and Tel Aviv thar didn't actually take place! -WMP Chief seems to have lied to Parliament about the events and has been recalled to clarify." And then, some are shocked when people don't trust any of our institutions. | |||
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"Bumping this because of new revelations about the real reason for the ban. - WMP consulted mosques which had hosted anti semitic preachers. - Local Muslim Councillors told police 'the community want it stopped'. - Police falsely claimed Jewish Community Groups supported the ban. - Police then invented reasons for the ban using false claims about Amsterdam events (since denied by Dutch police) and even using AI to produce false information, including references to a match between West Ham and Tel Aviv thar didn't actually take place! -WMP Chief seems to have lied to Parliament about the events and has been recalled to clarify. And then, some are shocked when people don't trust any of our institutions." Ideology seems to trump facts everywhere you look. We live in two tier Britain and will continue to do so while the current government are in power as it’s their goal to treat people differently based on their politics, skin colour, religion, country of birth etc | |||
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"Bumping this because of new revelations about the real reason for the ban. - WMP consulted mosques which had hosted anti semitic preachers. - Local Muslim Councillors told police 'the community want it stopped'. - Police falsely claimed Jewish Community Groups supported the ban. - Police then invented reasons for the ban using false claims about Amsterdam events (since denied by Dutch police) and even using AI to produce false information, including references to a match between West Ham and Tel Aviv thar didn't actually take place! -WMP Chief seems to have lied to Parliament about the events and has been recalled to clarify. And then, some are shocked when people don't trust any of our institutions." It's clear the senior police lied to the public and Parliament, yet I doubt there will be any consequences. | |||
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"Bumping this because of new revelations about the real reason for the ban. - WMP consulted mosques which had hosted anti semitic preachers. - Local Muslim Councillors told police 'the community want it stopped'. - Police falsely claimed Jewish Community Groups supported the ban. - Police then invented reasons for the ban using false claims about Amsterdam events (since denied by Dutch police) and even using AI to produce false information, including references to a match between West Ham and Tel Aviv thar didn't actually take place! -WMP Chief seems to have lied to Parliament about the events and has been recalled to clarify." it was obvious what the reason was for them banning fans it was only the pro hamas morons who brought into what the old bill were saying | |||
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"There were 2 clear directions in thinking at the start of this thread as to why the ban was imposed, these latest developments if true, go a long way in supporting 1 direction only. It would be interesting to hear the thoughts of those that considered the ban justified based on the fabricated evidence that was presented." Indeed ! | |||
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"Bumping this because of new revelations about the real reason for the ban. - WMP consulted mosques which had hosted anti semitic preachers. - Local Muslim Councillors told police 'the community want it stopped'. - Police falsely claimed Jewish Community Groups supported the ban. - Police then invented reasons for the ban using false claims about Amsterdam events (since denied by Dutch police) and even using AI to produce false information, including references to a match between West Ham and Tel Aviv thar didn't actually take place! -WMP Chief seems to have lied to Parliament about the events and has been recalled to clarify." Not seen much of this reported apart from one article saying they were investigating the ban and possibly some of the original reasons given were false. However they got away with it. Can't rerun the match now. The authorities got their way and excluded one side. | |||
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"Makes some of the earlier comments in this thread look rather ridiculous." Completely agreed. | |||
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"Makes some of the earlier comments in this thread look rather ridiculous. Completely agreed." While others called it correctly from the start tbf. | |||
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"Chief Constable giving evidence to Parliament admit the initial reason to ban Israeli fans was threat from 'armed' locals. Makes some of the earlier comments in this thread look rather ridiculous." I wonder if it has changed the way people view things now, hopefully made them more aware. | |||
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" I wonder if it has changed the way people view things now, hopefully made them more aware. " What's strange is that the same people who are "clever enough" to "see through" mainstream media misinformation when it comes to the Middle East, to the point of promoting conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel, seem to have swallowed anti-Israel rhetoric and propaganda wholesale, with no question. It makes you wonder whether people simply bring a position to the table, then twist any logic or facts to suit that narrative, usually "Israel/Israelis/Jews=bad (#NotAnAntiSemite)". | |||
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" I wonder if it has changed the way people view things now, hopefully made them more aware. What's strange is that the same people who are "clever enough" to "see through" mainstream media misinformation when it comes to the Middle East, to the point of promoting conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel, seem to have swallowed anti-Israel rhetoric and propaganda wholesale, with no question. It makes you wonder whether people simply bring a position to the table, then twist any logic or facts to suit that narrative, usually "Israel/Israelis/Jews=bad (#NotAnAntiSemite)"." We see examples of that regularly on here.😔 | |||
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