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Rail attack
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"12 hours from the attack still no police statement about identity/motivation of attackers just leaves a vacuum for conspiracy theorists & rabble rousers to let rip. "
We covered this previously, in another attack.
We mustn't speculate, for obvious reasons. |
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"12 hours from the attack still no police statement about identity/motivation of attackers just leaves a vacuum for conspiracy theorists & rabble rousers to let rip.
We covered this previously, in another attack.
We mustn't speculate, for obvious reasons."
"We mustn't"? Who made you the thought police? |
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"12 hours from the attack still no police statement about identity/motivation of attackers just leaves a vacuum for conspiracy theorists & rabble rousers to let rip.
We covered this previously, in another attack.
We mustn't speculate, for obvious reasons.
"We mustn't"? Who made you the thought police?"
Obvious reasons, of course. |
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"12 hours from the attack still no police statement about identity/motivation of attackers just leaves a vacuum for conspiracy theorists & rabble rousers to let rip.
We covered this previously, in another attack.
We mustn't speculate, for obvious reasons.
"We mustn't"? Who made you the thought police?"
Just speculating but looks like you spoilt someone's chance to speculate, Mrs x |
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"12 hours from the attack still no police statement about identity/motivation of attackers just leaves a vacuum for conspiracy theorists & rabble rousers to let rip.
We covered this previously, in another attack.
We mustn't speculate, for obvious reasons.
"We mustn't"? Who made you the thought police? Just speculating but looks like you spoilt someone's chance to speculate, Mrs x"
We can safely say that we know don't know what it IS, but we know what it ISN'T. |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
2 black guys… both British nationals…apparently police now think it’s not terrorism related…
Quick thoughts…
1) shit .. now black people are going to have to defend ourselves
2) there are going to be a lot of far right people really disappointed… unless they are going to suggest they converted |
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By *9al OP Man 26 weeks ago
Bridgend |
just had a Police statement at last but not much detail less seriously injured victims than originally thought but still terrible, Police Muppet spokesman refused to answer questions from the press, what are they trying to cover up? |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"just had a Police statement at last but not much detail less seriously injured victims than originally thought but still terrible, Police Muppet spokesman refused to answer questions from the press, what are they trying to cover up? "
Well it will be the BTP leading the investigation so it may take a bit longer |
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"2 black guys… both British nationals…apparently police now think it’s not terrorism related…
Quick thoughts…
1) shit .. now black people are going to have to defend ourselves
2) there are going to be a lot of far right people really disappointed… unless they are going to suggest they converted "
This is indeed unfortunate for black people. It's a terrible when an identifiable member of a community does something terrible, which causes totally unrelated people to be persecuted 
You can expect more support than hate, but that's small comfort. |
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"2 black guys… both British nationals…apparently police now think it’s not terrorism related…
Quick thoughts…
1) shit .. now black people are going to have to defend ourselves
2) there are going to be a lot of far right people really disappointed… unless they are going to suggest they converted "
I'm more interested in the motive rather than the skin colour.
Why did two guys decide that going on a knife rampage on a train was a good idea?
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"2 black guys… both British nationals…apparently police now think it’s not terrorism related…
Quick thoughts…
1) shit .. now black people are going to have to defend ourselves
2) there are going to be a lot of far right people really disappointed… unless they are going to suggest they converted
I'm more interested in the motive rather than the skin colour.
Why did two guys decide that going on a knife rampage on a train was a good idea?
"
You might be more interested in the motive than the skin colour.. but there a lot of people both here and online in the last 12 hrs that very ready to speculate and twist it to suit the narrative that they espoused…
All we do know is they “think” it’s not terror related ( although I don’t care what they did was related to a religious belief or international or domestic… what they did was designed to create terror)
So we shall find out soon enough.. I am not going to speculate |
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"just had a Police statement at last but not much detail less seriously injured victims than originally thought but still terrible, Police Muppet spokesman refused to answer questions from the press, what are they trying to cover up? "
Perhaps they put everything they had available in the Statement, making further questioning pointless. |
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At least the police have identified and caught the attackers. I think that It’s good that they have gone public with their identities as this nips the speculation and false narratives in the bud. Their motive is what needs to be clarified next, although they don’t seem to think it’s terror related. Many questions are still unanswered but more time will be needed to establish facts. |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
The whole point about not speculating isn’t helped if muppets who should know better like an MP .. yes you Rupert Lowe of the parish of reform UK, send a letter to the prime minister, using it to push your beliefs on illegal migration!
Idiotic…. Recklessly careless… designed to incite and inflame |
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Police say there is nothing to suggest it is a terrorist incident and have asked the public to come forward with any more information
Two random people go and knife ten people in a pre meditated attack. Suspects uninjured and been in custody for 18 hours.
About time a more accurate statement was made |
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Well one person going on a spree could be many reasons, two people sounds coordinated.
So if it's a political or religion based attack or simply because they were bored, it should be cleared up as soon as possible to avoid speculation giving fuel to the fire for the hard of thinking brigade who need very little excuse to reinforce their hatred.
Skin colour or religion aside people have had their lives permanently altered by this attack so let's hope the reasons are made clear as soon as possible to avoid more innocent people getting caught up in this whilst the culprits face the full weight of the justice system.
Sad times it seems like every other day this kind of thing is happening. |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"My thoughts at this stage are with the victims, those who helped others avoid the knife attackers, the train operator and our brilliant emergency response
Am I the only one?"
Not at all… the train driver did exactly the right thing stopping the train at Huntingdon rather than doubling back to Peterborough or going to Stevenage
I can only imagine what it was like for both the passengers and the train crew
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Well one person going on a spree could be many reasons, two people sounds coordinated.
So if it's a political or religion based attack or simply because they were bored, it should be cleared up as soon as possible to avoid speculation giving fuel to the fire for the hard of thinking brigade who need very little excuse to reinforce their hatred.
Skin colour or religion aside people have had their lives permanently altered by this attack so let's hope the reasons are made clear as soon as possible to avoid more innocent people getting caught up in this whilst the culprits face the full weight of the justice system.
Sad times it seems like every other day this kind of thing is happening. "
Unfortunately the “you can’t be black and British “ crowd are flooding social media at the moment
The coded language like the MP aren’t helpful |
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"Well one person going on a spree could be many reasons, two people sounds coordinated.
So if it's a political or religion based attack or simply because they were bored, it should be cleared up as soon as possible to avoid speculation giving fuel to the fire for the hard of thinking brigade who need very little excuse to reinforce their hatred.
Skin colour or religion aside people have had their lives permanently altered by this attack so let's hope the reasons are made clear as soon as possible to avoid more innocent people getting caught up in this whilst the culprits face the full weight of the justice system.
Sad times it seems like every other day this kind of thing is happening.
Unfortunately the “you can’t be black and British “ crowd are flooding social media at the moment
The coded language like the MP aren’t helpful "
It's such a sad world we live in unfortunately we don't seem to have progressed at all since the race riots of the 70's and 80's....
We do seem to be going backwards in regards tolerance and hatred as you say people who can influence this are not helping the situation. |
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By *9al OP Man 26 weeks ago
Bridgend |
"just had a Police statement at last but not much detail less seriously injured victims than originally thought but still terrible, Police Muppet spokesman refused to answer questions from the press, what are they trying to cover up?
Perhaps they put everything they had available in the Statement, making further questioning pointless. "
an obvious question would be were the attackers known to the police? the spokesman for the police only mentioned 1 charge of attempted murder but surely there are several other charges that could be brought ? |
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By *I TwoCouple 26 weeks ago
near enough |
"just had a Police statement at last but not much detail less seriously injured victims than originally thought but still terrible, Police Muppet spokesman refused to answer questions from the press, what are they trying to cover up?
Perhaps they put everything they had available in the Statement, making further questioning pointless.
an obvious question would be were the attackers known to the police? the spokesman for the police only mentioned 1 charge of attempted murder but surely there are several other charges that could be brought ?"
Maybe you should contact the investigation team and give them the benefit of your experience then 🤷♂️ |
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"My thoughts at this stage are with the victims, those who helped others avoid the knife attackers, the train operator and our brilliant emergency response
Am I the only one?
Not at all… the train driver did exactly the right thing stopping the train at Huntingdon rather than doubling back to Peterborough or going to Stevenage
I can only imagine what it was like for both the passengers and the train crew
"
I think the train operator would have been taught to stop at the next station and been in contact with the police as soon as he knew.
I took a train journey earlier and I think many like me were a bit nervous of copy cat behaviour which I can foresee happening.
I was surprised that no previous posts expressed sympathy towards the victims and those brave souls helping. I wonder if we can imagine the horror of it all tbh? |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
an obvious question would be were the attackers known to the police? the spokesman for the police only mentioned 1 charge of attempted murder but surely there are several other charges that could be brought ?"
I have watched enough 24 hrs in police custody to know they would only need 1 charge to keep them in custody at the moment and the rest can follow afterwards
Also they can get 24 hr extension on. Any custody holding.. so maybe they are doing that, for example now searching homes for further evidence? |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"My thoughts at this stage are with the victims, those who helped others avoid the knife attackers, the train operator and our brilliant emergency response
Am I the only one?
Not at all… the train driver did exactly the right thing stopping the train at Huntingdon rather than doubling back to Peterborough or going to Stevenage
I can only imagine what it was like for both the passengers and the train crew
I think the train operator would have been taught to stop at the next station and been in contact with the police as soon as he knew.
I took a train journey earlier and I think many like me were a bit nervous of copy cat behaviour which I can foresee happening.
I was surprised that no previous posts expressed sympathy towards the victims and those brave souls helping. I wonder if we can imagine the horror of it all tbh?"
I am thinking using train industry knowledge … I probably should have said that 
If it was “running double or an 8 car set” which it would probably do on a Saturday in the football season .. not all station on that line are equipped to either handle the train length, or cope very well with an emergency situation…
Huntingdon was a good place to stop because it can cope with the length of trains even though they don’t stop there… can cope with the traffic because it’s sometimes used as coach replacement pick up and drop off points when engineering work is taking place. And when the train is finally removed, it has a spare side/bay platform it can be moved into to continue forensics whilst not blocking the main line (rather than moving it all the way to London)
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"My thoughts at this stage are with the victims, those who helped others avoid the knife attackers, the train operator and our brilliant emergency response
Am I the only one?
Not at all… the train driver did exactly the right thing stopping the train at Huntingdon rather than doubling back to Peterborough or going to Stevenage
I can only imagine what it was like for both the passengers and the train crew
I think the train operator would have been taught to stop at the next station and been in contact with the police as soon as he knew.
I took a train journey earlier and I think many like me were a bit nervous of copy cat behaviour which I can foresee happening.
I was surprised that no previous posts expressed sympathy towards the victims and those brave souls helping. I wonder if we can imagine the horror of it all tbh?
I am thinking using train industry knowledge … I probably should have said that
If it was “running double or an 8 car set” which it would probably do on a Saturday in the football season .. not all station on that line are equipped to either handle the train length, or cope very well with an emergency situation…
Huntingdon was a good place to stop because it can cope with the length of trains even though they don’t stop there… can cope with the traffic because it’s sometimes used as coach replacement pick up and drop off points when engineering work is taking place. And when the train is finally removed, it has a spare side/bay platform it can be moved into to continue forensics whilst not blocking the main line (rather than moving it all the way to London)
"
Added to this, there is a hospital less than a mile from the station. |
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"Well one person going on a spree could be many reasons, two people sounds coordinated.
So if it's a political or religion based attack or simply because they were bored, it should be cleared up as soon as possible to avoid speculation giving fuel to the fire for the hard of thinking brigade who need very little excuse to reinforce their hatred.
Skin colour or religion aside people have had their lives permanently altered by this attack so let's hope the reasons are made clear as soon as possible to avoid more innocent people getting caught up in this whilst the culprits face the full weight of the justice system.
Sad times it seems like every other day this kind of thing is happening. "
It does seem all to common. This one is unusual as you say having 2 attackers so some form of coordination between them. What on earth makes 2 people just go out and commit such a crime for what appears to be no reason at all. A terrifying experience for all concerned. |
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"Well one person going on a spree could be many reasons, two people sounds coordinated.
So if it's a political or religion based attack or simply because they were bored, it should be cleared up as soon as possible to avoid speculation giving fuel to the fire for the hard of thinking brigade who need very little excuse to reinforce their hatred.
Skin colour or religion aside people have had their lives permanently altered by this attack so let's hope the reasons are made clear as soon as possible to avoid more innocent people getting caught up in this whilst the culprits face the full weight of the justice system.
Sad times it seems like every other day this kind of thing is happening.
It does seem all to common. This one is unusual as you say having 2 attackers so some form of coordination between them. What on earth makes 2 people just go out and commit such a crime for what appears to be no reason at all. A terrifying experience for all concerned. "
Obviously we don't yet know what led to it if course but it seems an odd choice of location for a planned attack and yes people on a moving train are pretty much not going anywhere..
Could be an altercation between one of the two which then escalated but that again looks unlikely..
Whatever the story is I hope they get what they deserve under the justice system and that for those involved a speedy recovery from the physical injuries.. |
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"My thoughts at this stage are with the victims, those who helped others avoid the knife attackers, the train operator and our brilliant emergency response
Am I the only one?
Not at all… the train driver did exactly the right thing stopping the train at Huntingdon rather than doubling back to Peterborough or going to Stevenage
I can only imagine what it was like for both the passengers and the train crew
I think the train operator would have been taught to stop at the next station and been in contact with the police as soon as he knew.
I took a train journey earlier and I think many like me were a bit nervous of copy cat behaviour which I can foresee happening.
I was surprised that no previous posts expressed sympathy towards the victims and those brave souls helping. I wonder if we can imagine the horror of it all tbh?
I am thinking using train industry knowledge … I probably should have said that
If it was “running double or an 8 car set” which it would probably do on a Saturday in the football season .. not all station on that line are equipped to either handle the train length, or cope very well with an emergency situation…
Huntingdon was a good place to stop because it can cope with the length of trains even though they don’t stop there… can cope with the traffic because it’s sometimes used as coach replacement pick up and drop off points when engineering work is taking place. And when the train is finally removed, it has a spare side/bay platform it can be moved into to continue forensics whilst not blocking the main line (rather than moving it all the way to London)
Added to this, there is a hospital less than a mile from the station. "
The train operator (driver) having raised the alarm with the network was diverted onto the slow line to enable the Huntingdon stop. Perhaps those on here who see train drivers as overpaid might reflect on the responsibilities they shoulder in emergencies such as this.
Some hope though |
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"The train operator (driver) having raised the alarm with the network was diverted onto the slow line to enable the Huntingdon stop. Perhaps those on here who see train drivers as overpaid might reflect on the responsibilities they shoulder in emergencies such as this.
Some hope though"
What responsibilities did the train driver have in this incident? Yes, he stopped the train after someone told him to, but other than that I'm not aware of the driver having any part in the story. |
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By *9al OP Man 26 weeks ago
Bridgend |
"The train operator (driver) having raised the alarm with the network was diverted onto the slow line to enable the Huntingdon stop. Perhaps those on here who see train drivers as overpaid might reflect on the responsibilities they shoulder in emergencies such as this.
Some hope though
perhaps it will help stop the gradual cuts in railway staffing , what it it had been a driverless train with no guard?
What responsibilities did the train driver have in this incident? Yes, he stopped the train after someone told him to, but other than that I'm not aware of the driver having any part in the story."
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"perhaps it will help stop the gradual cuts in railway staffing , what it it had been a driverless train with no guard?"
Exactly the same thing. Someone on board would have pulled the emergency lever, and someone in central control would have diverted the train to Huntingdon.
I'm not criticising the driver in any way, but he didn't do anything in this case that an automated system wouldn't have done. |
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"The train operator (driver) having raised the alarm with the network was diverted onto the slow line to enable the Huntingdon stop. Perhaps those on here who see train drivers as overpaid might reflect on the responsibilities they shoulder in emergencies such as this.
Some hope though
perhaps it will help stop the gradual cuts in railway staffing , what it it had been a driverless train with no guard?
What responsibilities did the train driver have in this incident? Yes, he stopped the train after someone told him to, but other than that I'm not aware of the driver having any part in the story."
The train operator kept their cool alerted the network and brought the train safely into Huntingdon. Followed procedures and was responsible for the safety of potentially hundreds of extremely frightened and shocked passengers.
There is no doubt this was a major incident and the TO, rail network, police and rescue services have probably saved lives. |
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By *orny PTMan 26 weeks ago
Peterborough |
"The train operator (driver) having raised the alarm with the network was diverted onto the slow line to enable the Huntingdon stop. Perhaps those on here who see train drivers as overpaid might reflect on the responsibilities they shoulder in emergencies such as this.
Some hope though
What responsibilities did the train driver have in this incident? Yes, he stopped the train after someone told him to, but other than that I'm not aware of the driver having any part in the story."
What responsbilities? ou ask? Assuming it's a man (I'm lazy not sexist)
1 to himself, a dead driver is no good to anyone
2 to his passengers and train
3 the signallers, 'why the emergency stop?' stop other trains in the area
4 to the police and the security services, ambulance and his seniors
5 his family
etc
--------------
Just because you don't see it in action - it doesn't mean that protocols are not happening, behind the scenes.
RDG Guidance Note:
The Training of On-Train Staff in OnTrain Emergency Procedures
RDG-OPS-GN-003
Issue 9 – September 2021
appendix B
Pages 7 and 8
Clearly give instructions on what to do in all emergency situations and who to contact, via the GSM radio system, then the decision to carry on driving or to tackle the situation is a measured and prepared decision.
--------------
Considering I don't work on the trains, this information was so easy to find after a couple of clicks.
...and breathe. |
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By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
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"Train drivers get paid about the same as insurance brokers.
Only one is driving a vehicle that weighs 500 tons travelling at 120 mph and is responsible for hundreds of lives."
Very well said that's a responsibility in itself let alone everything else |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Also… it looks like they released the older 35 year old man…. So he was not involved
So a single attacker makes much more sense now
Apparently the person was from Peterborough and got on the train there! |
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"Plod has also said "a 32-year-old man from Peterborough is now being treated as the only suspect."
This is why it is important to wait for facts."
Indeed we need to wait for the facts and it does make more sense than 2 working as a team. We may never know what drove him to do this |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Plod has also said "a 32-year-old man from Peterborough is now being treated as the only suspect."
This is why it is important to wait for facts.
Indeed we need to wait for the facts and it does make more sense than 2 working as a team. We may never know what drove him to do this "
A mate just texted me joking one was arrested for attempted murder, and one was arrested for “travelling on a train whilst black “
I just said “why you making it about colour bruv!”
Seriously though… so many right wingers are having a meltdown at the moment having their narratives blown out the water… this is why we say don’t speculate!!! Let the police do what they need to do….
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"perhaps it will help stop the gradual cuts in railway staffing , what it it had been a driverless train with no guard?
Exactly the same thing. Someone on board would have pulled the emergency lever, and someone in central control would have diverted the train to Huntingdon.
I'm not criticising the driver in any way, but he didn't do anything in this case that an automated system wouldn't have done."
Looks like the train driver, named as Andrew Johnson is becoming a national hero, and sadly the guard is desperately ill in hospital with life threatening injuries.
It seems many posters on here agree with me - not you - but par for the course looking at your previous posts. Shame on you. |
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"Looks like the train driver, named as Andrew Johnson is becoming a national hero, and sadly the guard is desperately ill in hospital with life threatening injuries.
It seems many posters on here agree with me - not you - but par for the course looking at your previous posts. Shame on you."
I feel no shame. From what I can see, the driver just did his job, and followed procedure and instructions.
It's too early to be sure, but it sounds like the guard may be a hero. If he actually intervened in some way, that man deserves a medal and a pay rise.
I'll be interested to see tomorrow's papers to see whether I'm wildly out of touch with the general populace. |
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I'm happy to wait for questioning..
.
And whilst there *may* be a motive, it doesn't necessarily follow that there *has* to be one.
.
An irrational person could potentially say, "I did it because I could". Not everything has a reason. |
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"Looks like the train driver, named as Andrew Johnson is becoming a national hero, and sadly the guard is desperately ill in hospital with life threatening injuries.
It seems many posters on here agree with me - not you - but par for the course looking at your previous posts. Shame on you.
I feel no shame. From what I can see, the driver just did his job, and followed procedure and instructions.
It's too early to be sure, but it sounds like the guard may be a hero. If he actually intervened in some way, that man deserves a medal and a pay rise.
I'll be interested to see tomorrow's papers to see whether I'm wildly out of touch with the general populace."
I'm not comfortable with how quickly we are to label someone's actions as heroic (heard it applied too many times when i served one of the blue light services) so in some ways I part agree with you but it's now clear that the driver's clear and decisive actions did save lives ..
Under the most unpredictable and extreme situation that you nor I have faced, he deserves every plaudit that comes his way and the support he will possibly need for what was a traumatic event..
I doff my cap to the man..
The guard is an absolute stand out individual and deserves the highest accolades this country can bestow upon him..
Sincerely hope he pulls through.. |
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"Looks like the train driver, named as Andrew Johnson is becoming a national hero, and sadly the guard is desperately ill in hospital with life threatening injuries.
It seems many posters on here agree with me - not you - but par for the course looking at your previous posts. Shame on you.
I feel no shame. From what I can see, the driver just did his job, and followed procedure and instructions.
It's too early to be sure, but it sounds like the guard may be a hero. If he actually intervened in some way, that man deserves a medal and a pay rise.
I'll be interested to see tomorrow's papers to see whether I'm wildly out of touch with the general populace.
I'm not comfortable with how quickly we are to label someone's actions as heroic (heard it applied too many times when i served one of the blue light services) so in some ways I part agree with you but it's now clear that the driver's clear and decisive actions did save lives ..
Under the most unpredictable and extreme situation that you nor I have faced, he deserves every plaudit that comes his way and the support he will possibly need for what was a traumatic event..
I doff my cap to the man..
The guard is an absolute stand out individual and deserves the highest accolades this country can bestow upon him..
Sincerely hope he pulls through.."
Agree with this.  |
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The story this morning is that it was the driver's suggestion to stop at Huntingdon (that does come from ASLEF, but I'll assume it's true). Well done that man. His quick thinking definitely helped the situation.
But if National Hero status is to go to anybody, it should be the guard. People who've looked at the CCTV footage say that he made efforts to stop the assailant, and his actions undoubtedly saved people's lives. Let's hope he gets the recognition he deserves. |
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Sadly getting an authority to behave differently, even when what they do not only causes harm but damages their own narratives, is no easy task. See any recent scandal, be it Grenfell, Pakistani grooming gangs, or the Horizon post office scandal.
From what we've seen and heard it's sounding like a wacko has done this rather than someone racially or religiously motivated. |
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"
From what we've seen and heard it's sounding like a wacko has done this rather than someone racially or religiously motivated."
I am finding it healthy that the reported “Devil won’t win” line witnesses apparently heard the attacker shouting isn’t being used to point the finger at all Christians, like an equivalent would definitely be about Muslims.
I hope I’m not the only one noticing that and I hope some people reflect on if. |
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"
From what we've seen and heard it's sounding like a wacko has done this rather than someone racially or religiously motivated.
I am finding it healthy that the reported “Devil won’t win” line witnesses apparently heard the attacker shouting isn’t being used to point the finger at all Christians, like an equivalent would definitely be about Muslims.
I hope I’m not the only one noticing that and I hope some people reflect on if."
What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say? |
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"
What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say?"
I think it could be read to be.
Can you think of a scenario where a person could believe themselves to be fighting against “The Devil” without belief in the God of the same source material?
However misguided and untypical of actual Christianity as their horrific actions were. |
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What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say?
I think it could be read to be.
Can you think of a scenario where a person could believe themselves to be fighting against “The Devil” without belief in the God of the same source material?
However misguided and untypical of actual Christianity as their horrific actions were."
I really don't understand what you are saying and what your point is!!! |
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"What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say?"
I don't think Devil is a uniquely Christian word but the word Satan is perhaps more commonly used by non-Christian theists and some Muslims might use the word Iblis instead.
But none of this is conclusive and it's perhaps best to avoid speculating on the suspect's motive or religious background at this point in time.
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"What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say?
I don't think Devil is a uniquely Christian word but the word Satan is perhaps more commonly used by non-Christian theists and some Muslims might use the word Iblis instead.
But none of this is conclusive and it's perhaps best to avoid speculating on the suspect's motive or religious background at this point in time.
"
Well the perp has appeared in court and charged "of no fixed abode" I'm guessing it's is going to be something do do with mental health issues possibly another person who shouldn't be walking the streets and not on correct medication.
HOWEVER yes this is speculation but we've seen it all to many times.
Drug's
Religion
Or
Politics
Mental health
Is a good bet one those is the reason. |
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"What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say?
I don't think Devil is a uniquely Christian word but the word Satan is perhaps more commonly used by non-Christian theists and some Muslims might use the word Iblis instead.
But none of this is conclusive and it's perhaps best to avoid speculating on the suspect's motive or religious background at this point in time.
"
100%
The point I’m trying to make is that, in times like these where it’s reported by witnesses that a phrase as associated with Islam is used by a crazed attacker, it’s easy for a large amount of people to say that person was a Muslim and so all Muslims are guilty by association.
We’re not doing that here, even if the apparent words the witnesses heard might be interpreted as the person misguidedly thinking they had a Christian motive.
I think it’s right that we’re not all taking their words literally and saying, ‘This is religious terrorism’ like can often be the case for a lot of people online (or in traditional media, or Westminster) with an even smaller hint that such an attacker was motivated by Islamic belief in the past.
It sounds like this was a person with a lot of problems from the scant detail known at the moment. |
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"...where it’s reported by witnesses that a phrase as associated with Islam is used by a crazed attacker, it’s easy for a large amount of people to say that person was a Muslim and so all Muslims are guilty by association."
All Muslims are guilty, or that there are problems in violent and extremist elements within the world of Islam? Are you really sure that you want to ignite this discussion? You might just trigger the issue you're saying must be avoided... |
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By *abioMan 26 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
Fear not… there is still a fair bit of “right wing” social media claiming you can’t be counted as British unless you are Anglo Saxon…. Or if you are only a 2nd generation immigrant
So the force hasn’t quite left yet.. it’s still strong in some!
That fact he did the same thing in London on Friday night/ Saturday morning should be the biggest alarm bell! How do you do that… travel back to Peterborough, make it home and return back to do it again!
Also… assaulting two policemen at the police station afterwards is the cherry on top!
So…. Can we say mental health? |
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"Fear not… there is still a fair bit of “right wing” social media claiming you can’t be counted as British unless you are Anglo Saxon…. Or if you are only a 2nd generation immigrant
So the force hasn’t quite left yet.. it’s still strong in some!
That fact he did the same thing in London on Friday night/ Saturday morning should be the biggest alarm bell! How do you do that… travel back to Peterborough, make it home and return back to do it again!
Also… assaulting two policemen at the police station afterwards is the cherry on top!
So…. Can we say mental health? "
Tommy Robinson gave a very lucid and mostly reasonable sounding interview a couple of months ago on Trigger-nometry. He ended it off by taking about keeping Britain a white country... 
The truth is, "mental health" doesn't help. Race haters will just say "blacks have mental health issues". It doesn't need to be rational or true. |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
There is zero security when it comes to getting onboard a train and I think that needs improving, and not dismissed as too hard to achieve.
Ticket scans to get on the platform will not stop a determined person, but it would stop the opportunist simply getting on any train they like. This person could be linked to attacks in London the day before, I would be interested to learn if it was him, if he was travelling up and down the network without a ticket. |
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"Fear not… there is still a fair bit of “right wing” social media claiming you can’t be counted as British unless you are Anglo Saxon…. Or if you are only a 2nd generation immigrant
So the force hasn’t quite left yet.. it’s still strong in some!
That fact he did the same thing in London on Friday night/ Saturday morning should be the biggest alarm bell! How do you do that… travel back to Peterborough, make it home and return back to do it again!
Also… assaulting two policemen at the police station afterwards is the cherry on top!
So…. Can we say mental health?
Tommy Robinson gave a very lucid and mostly reasonable sounding interview a couple of months ago on Trigger-nometry. He ended it off by taking about keeping Britain a white country...
The truth is, "mental health" doesn't help. Race haters will just say "blacks have mental health issues". It doesn't need to be rational or true."
Mental health is a big issue in our country. People are seeking help and being put on waiting lists for many months. The people who are lucky enough to get help are being released from units too early to make way for someone else. |
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By *9al OP Man 26 weeks ago
Bridgend |
"Fear not… there is still a fair bit of “right wing” social media claiming you can’t be counted as British unless you are Anglo Saxon…. Or if you are only a 2nd generation immigrant
So the force hasn’t quite left yet.. it’s still strong in some!
That fact he did the same thing in London on Friday night/ Saturday morning should be the biggest alarm bell! How do you do that… travel back to Peterborough, make it home and return back to do it again!
Also… assaulting two policemen at the police station afterwards is the cherry on top!
So…. Can we say mental health? "
it highlights the crisis in mental heath services, I someone is potentially a danger to themself & others in the community they must be detained or forcibly sedated sectioned etc instead they are sent out with a prescription they may not take & an appointment they may not attend |
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"There is zero security when it comes to getting onboard a train and I think that needs improving, and not dismissed as too hard to achieve.
Ticket scans to get on the platform will not stop a determined person, but it would stop the opportunist simply getting on any train they like. This person could be linked to attacks in London the day before, I would be interested to learn if it was him, if he was travelling up and down the network without a ticket."
This sort of thing is exactly what the phrase "knee-jerk reaction" was invented for. Trains are incredibly safe in this country and people hardly ever get injured. One lone nutter does not justify making life harder and more expensive for the entire population. |
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"Just waiting for the “black people should go back to where they come from” posts and tweets that are inevitably coming "
The Reform gang on twitter did exactly that. Grimes, Goodwin etc. And then when the guy’s name was revealed they doubled down, saying they didn’t believe it was his real name. Wankers. |
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By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
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How do we say mental health? By looking at what actually works.
Every review into serious incidents — from the Care Quality Commission to NHS England — finds the same pattern: underfunded crisis teams, impossible caseloads, and discharged patients waiting months for therapy or inpatient beds. Detention under the Mental Health Act already exists, but it’s no substitute for basic care.
Mental health should be treated as seriously as physical health, yet the NHS is often forced to act like a triage system for productivity — the shortest route back to work, not the best route to recovery.
And to be clear — what this man did was atrocious, and he should face full consequences for the harm caused. But punishment doesn’t prevent repetition. The only way to stop the next one is to fix the conditions that let people fall through the cracks: underfunded crisis care, lost follow-ups, isolation, and the absence of human connection. Treating people like threats doesn’t make us safer — treating them like humans does. |
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Turns out he has been charged with another stabbing aswell as the trains he stabbed a teenager in the early hours of sat morning and was waving a knife about earlier on in the day but the police couldnt find him i find that strange considering the amount of cctv, old bill giving themselves a pat on the back because they were there so quick,, i wouldnt expect anything less considering the old bill station is near enough opposite the train station |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"There is zero security when it comes to getting onboard a train and I think that needs improving, and not dismissed as too hard to achieve.
Ticket scans to get on the platform will not stop a determined person, but it would stop the opportunist simply getting on any train they like. This person could be linked to attacks in London the day before, I would be interested to learn if it was him, if he was travelling up and down the network without a ticket.
This sort of thing is exactly what the phrase "knee-jerk reaction" was invented for. Trains are incredibly safe in this country and people hardly ever get injured. One lone nutter does not justify making life harder and more expensive for the entire population."
It is certainly not knee-jerk, I'm thinking you don't take the train on a frequent basis. |
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"There is zero security when it comes to getting onboard a train and I think that needs improving, and not dismissed as too hard to achieve.
Ticket scans to get on the platform will not stop a determined person, but it would stop the opportunist simply getting on any train they like. This person could be linked to attacks in London the day before, I would be interested to learn if it was him, if he was travelling up and down the network without a ticket."
"This sort of thing is exactly what the phrase "knee-jerk reaction" was invented for. Trains are incredibly safe in this country and people hardly ever get injured. One lone nutter does not justify making life harder and more expensive for the entire population."
"It is certainly not knee-jerk, I'm thinking you don't take the train on a frequent basis."
Frequently enough to have a Rail Card.
What you suggested above is that all stations be upgraded to not allow anyone on the platform without a ticket. That would cost a fortune to implement, and it could be circumvented by any bad actors by them just getting a ticket. It would be a huge waste of money to achieve nothing at all. |
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By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
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Been using trains 30 years and never feared knives — my real worry has always been targeted, ideologically-motivated violence. Security theatre (gates, ticket barriers) looks reassuring but mostly shifts the problem or raises costs. If we want safer railways, invest in intelligence-led policing, visible trained staff, rapid reporting systems, and mental-health/crisis interventions at the community level. That stops both opportunists and repeat offenders more than a row of turnstiles. |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"There is zero security when it comes to getting onboard a train and I think that needs improving, and not dismissed as too hard to achieve.
Ticket scans to get on the platform will not stop a determined person, but it would stop the opportunist simply getting on any train they like. This person could be linked to attacks in London the day before, I would be interested to learn if it was him, if he was travelling up and down the network without a ticket.
This sort of thing is exactly what the phrase "knee-jerk reaction" was invented for. Trains are incredibly safe in this country and people hardly ever get injured. One lone nutter does not justify making life harder and more expensive for the entire population.
It is certainly not knee-jerk, I'm thinking you don't take the train on a frequent basis.
Frequently enough to have a Rail Card.
What you suggested above is that all stations be upgraded to not allow anyone on the platform without a ticket. That would cost a fortune to implement, and it could be circumvented by any bad actors by them just getting a ticket. It would be a huge waste of money to achieve nothing at all."
As I said, it wouldn't stop someone determined but the opportunist or disrupter maybe it would. I travel a lot on trains and regularly see ASB, train fare dodgers, thugs, d*unks etc and I rarely get asked to show tickets. People use the rail network without a thought of paying, all that happens when they are confronted is an argument with the train staff and they do not seem to eject them from the train until they arrive at a station with a police presence there. That means they might not be removed or leave the train before arriving at a station with police. It is a relatively safe place, I would agree but when it isn't, the carriage is a an awful place to be. As for the costs to fit barcode readers and turnstiles before the platforms, a modest one that would benefit all passengers. It’s about tightening up a system that is far too easy to exploit, and I'm interested to know if he was travelling up and down the network without paying for a ticket. |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Been using trains 30 years and never feared knives — my real worry has always been targeted, ideologically-motivated violence. Security theatre (gates, ticket barriers) looks reassuring but mostly shifts the problem or raises costs. If we want safer railways, invest in intelligence-led policing, visible trained staff, rapid reporting systems, and mental-health/crisis interventions at the community level. That stops both opportunists and repeat offenders more than a row of turnstiles."
I disagree, adding more staff would be an huge uplift in cost and what do expect a member of staff to do with d*unks, thugs and knife wielding bad actors. Make it a little harder for the opportunist and remove some of the risk.
It is a balance. |
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"Been using trains 30 years and never feared knives — my real worry has always been targeted, ideologically-motivated violence. Security theatre (gates, ticket barriers) looks reassuring but mostly shifts the problem or raises costs. If we want safer railways, invest in intelligence-led policing, visible trained staff, rapid reporting systems, and mental-health/crisis interventions at the community level. That stops both opportunists and repeat offenders more than a row of turnstiles.
I disagree, adding more staff would be an huge uplift in cost and what do expect a member of staff to do with d*unks, thugs and knife wielding bad actors. Make it a little harder for the opportunist and remove some of the risk.
It is a balance."
Agree with this, Mrs x |
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According to ONS there are 2,808 train stations in England and Wales. I'd estimate at least 1,000 of these are small rural ones that have no permanent staff.
Installling automatic barriers everywhere would cost an absolute fortune and as there's fairly easy access to the train line itself in many places it would be impossible to prevent people gaining access as they could just walk along the line.
Besides a bad actor could just buy the cheapest ticket available and pass through any barrier.
We can't control some spaces and shouldn't attempt to. Imagine a world where you had to go through airport style security to enter a supermarket or a pub. It's never going to happen. |
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"According to ONS there are 2,808 train stations in England and Wales. I'd estimate at least 1,000 of these are small rural ones that have no permanent staff.
Installling automatic barriers everywhere would cost an absolute fortune and as there's fairly easy access to the train line itself in many places it would be impossible to prevent people gaining access as they could just walk along the line.
Besides a bad actor could just buy the cheapest ticket available and pass through any barrier.
We can't control some spaces and shouldn't attempt to. Imagine a world where you had to go through airport style security to enter a supermarket or a pub. It's never going to happen."
It's a complex problem, definitely, Mrs x |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"According to ONS there are 2,808 train stations in England and Wales. I'd estimate at least 1,000 of these are small rural ones that have no permanent staff.
Installling automatic barriers everywhere would cost an absolute fortune and as there's fairly easy access to the train line itself in many places it would be impossible to prevent people gaining access as they could just walk along the line.
Besides a bad actor could just buy the cheapest ticket available and pass through any barrier.
We can't control some spaces and shouldn't attempt to. Imagine a world where you had to go through airport style security to enter a supermarket or a pub. It's never going to happen."
A well designed entry system could stop a person without the correct ticket gaining access to any platform, it is logical that the ticket presented would need their train to be on the platform being accessed..
You are saying all stations and airport style security, nobody else, a simple barcode reader and access control is all that is needed. It about risk and balance and if the risk from rural is next to zero then why would that level need to be there, until it is needed.. The train companies are allowing easy access to their trains to anyone who shouldn't be using the service, they have a duty of care to their customers, wherever practical... It is not beyond the realms of the train companies to better manage the service they are offering.
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By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
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"Facial recognition could be part of a solution, flagging up known problematic people.
Good luck getting that off the ground, politically..."
Yeah, and the reality is facial recognition isn’t anywhere near as slick as TV makes it look. False positives are a real issue — even the Met trials showed accuracy dropping sharply for women and people of colour.
To get it running safely across the rail network would take a huge investment in hardware, oversight, and data law compliance — all for a system that mostly catches the wrong people faster than the right ones. |
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"A well designed entry system could stop a person without the correct ticket gaining access to any platform, it is logical that the ticket presented would need their train to be on the platform being accessed..
You are saying all stations and airport style security, nobody else, a simple barcode reader and access control is all that is needed. It about risk and balance and if the risk from rural is next to zero then why would that level need to be there, until it is needed.. The train companies are allowing easy access to their trains to anyone who shouldn't be using the service, they have a duty of care to their customers, wherever practical... It is not beyond the realms of the train companies to better manage the service they are offering."
As I and others have pointed out all a bad actor would need to do to get through any barrier would be to buy the cheapest ticket available.
And do you think that rail companies don't already calculate the trade-off between the costs of fare dodging and fare enforcement?
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"Facial recognition could be part of a solution, flagging up known problematic people.
Good luck getting that off the ground, politically...
Yeah, and the reality is facial recognition isn’t anywhere near as slick as TV makes it look. False positives are a real issue — even the Met trials showed accuracy dropping sharply for women and people of colour.
To get it running safely across the rail network would take a huge investment in hardware, oversight, and data law compliance — all for a system that mostly catches the wrong people faster than the right ones."
The best and fastest way to improve it is to implement it. That's not advocating for roll-out. And facial recognition is extremely good at taking a risk from "completely unknown" to " 95%+ certain".
It's a matter of balancing risks vs benefits. |
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By (user no longer on site) 26 weeks ago
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"The best and fastest way to improve it is to implement it. That's not advocating for roll-out. And facial recognition is extremely good at taking a risk from "completely unknown" to " 95%+ certain".
It's a matter of balancing risks vs benefits."
True, every technology improves with use — but rolling out flawed recognition at national scale means the public becomes the test data. That’s a dangerous way to ‘train’ a system that already misidentifies women and people of colour at up to 10 times the rate of white men, according to the Met’s own trials and the University of Essex review.
Accuracy claims also rely on perfect lighting, straight-on faces, and high-grade cameras — not standard rail CCTV with rain, masks, and movement blur. Until those conditions exist, the risk-benefit balance still tips heavily toward risk. |
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I wonder how many passengers the British rail network handles on a daily basis?
Whilst all of the technology is probably available is it achievable for every station up and down the country?
I'm guessing that this incident will do no harm to the campaign of keeping train's staffed, conductors and maybe now full time security guards??
Maybe train companies will have to start thinking a lot more about their customers and their safety rather than shareholders dividends ? |
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"The best and fastest way to improve it is to implement it. That's not advocating for roll-out. And facial recognition is extremely good at taking a risk from "completely unknown" to " 95%+ certain".
It's a matter of balancing risks vs benefits."
How would this work in practice?
I guess it would need to be something like passport control E-Gates, with the barrier not opening if someone is a suspected fare dodger, terrorist or whatever?
The last time I used one it took about 90 seconds to let me through even though it had a scan of my passport, so already had database access on who I was supposed to be, my previous travels, my photo and height.
How would this kind of thing work in a busy rush hour situation? And what happens when the gate remains closed?
And would it have prevented this recent tragedy?
These technological ideas seem divorced from reality to me. |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"A well designed entry system could stop a person without the correct ticket gaining access to any platform, it is logical that the ticket presented would need their train to be on the platform being accessed..
You are saying all stations and airport style security, nobody else, a simple barcode reader and access control is all that is needed. It about risk and balance and if the risk from rural is next to zero then why would that level need to be there, until it is needed.. The train companies are allowing easy access to their trains to anyone who shouldn't be using the service, they have a duty of care to their customers, wherever practical... It is not beyond the realms of the train companies to better manage the service they are offering.
As I and others have pointed out all a bad actor would need to do to get through any barrier would be to buy the cheapest ticket available.
And do you think that rail companies don't already calculate the trade-off between the costs of fare dodging and fare enforcement?
"
Premeditated action is always going to be harder to prevent, however opportunists as mental health conditions would be more of, would be easier to deter with simple access solutions.
With any problem, it is easier to say what wont work and walk away when the reasoning has beed allowed to stack up against, than to workout what will work. Risk mitigation, is the way forward, whatever the solution looks like |
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"What makes this uniquely a Christian thing to say?
I don't think Devil is a uniquely Christian word but the word Satan is perhaps more commonly used by non-Christian theists and some Muslims might use the word Iblis instead.
But none of this is conclusive and it's perhaps best to avoid speculating on the suspect's motive or religious background at this point in time.
100%
The point I’m trying to make is that, in times like these where it’s reported by witnesses that a phrase as associated with Islam is used by a crazed attacker, it’s easy for a large amount of people to say that person was a Muslim and so all Muslims are guilty by association.
We’re not doing that here, even if the apparent words the witnesses heard might be interpreted as the person misguidedly thinking they had a Christian motive.
I think it’s right that we’re not all taking their words literally and saying, ‘This is religious terrorism’ like can often be the case for a lot of people online (or in traditional media, or Westminster) with an even smaller hint that such an attacker was motivated by Islamic belief in the past.
It sounds like this was a person with a lot of problems from the scant detail known at the moment."
Personally I don't see reports or people saying that all Muslims are guilty by association when one of them commits an act of terror. Mention of the devil does not tie him to any religion specifically as far as I know. He is a person with many problems for sure |
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"Premeditated action is always going to be harder to prevent, however opportunists as mental health conditions would be more of, would be easier to deter with simple access solutions.
With any problem, it is easier to say what wont work and walk away when the reasoning has beed allowed to stack up against, than to workout what will work. Risk mitigation, is the way forward, whatever that solutions looks like."
If someone has a psychotic episode this doesn't mean there is no premeditation involved.
We don't know enough about the suspect in this case but if we suppose it was down to psychosis then he still brought a large kitchen knife with him. So even if he was psychotic he was still planning what to do.
So paying for a cheap ticket isn't going to present a major hurdle for anyone intent on killing people on a train.
Also all major train stations I've been through already have barriers that only open when presented with a valid paper ticket or QR.
The facial recognition idea presents additional problems as the dispute is no longer about whether a ticket is valid or not, so that would add a multitude of additional problems to a situation. |
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By *otMe66Man 26 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Premeditated action is always going to be harder to prevent, however opportunists as mental health conditions would be more of, would be easier to deter with simple access solutions.
With any problem, it is easier to say what wont work and walk away when the reasoning has beed allowed to stack up against, than to workout what will work. Risk mitigation, is the way forward, whatever that solutions looks like.
If someone has a psychotic episode this doesn't mean there is no premeditation involved.
We don't know enough about the suspect in this case but if we suppose it was down to psychosis then he still brought a large kitchen knife with him. So even if he was psychotic he was still planning what to do.
So paying for a cheap ticket isn't going to present a major hurdle for anyone intent on killing people on a train.
Also all major train stations I've been through already have barriers that only open when presented with a valid paper ticket or QR.
The facial recognition idea presents additional problems as the dispute is no longer about whether a ticket is valid or not, so that would add a multitude of additional problems to a situation."
There is a solution to deter, it simply needs to be explored and not ignored because it seems too difficult. |
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"Also all major train stations I've been through already have barriers that only open when presented with a valid paper ticket or QR."
Having said that, my own local station in York doesn't have barriers. I suspect this is down to the layout of the station - they didnt consider such things in the 1870's and it would be difficult to retrofit. It would also be a nightmare on race days.
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" He is a person with many problems for sure "
Less problems than the ten people he’s knifed and the others he’s traumatised.
He’s also very lucky the police tasered him, had this happened in the USA he’d be full of bullets.
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"Facial recognition could be part of a solution, flagging up known problematic people.
Good luck getting that off the ground, politically..."
Criticism here seems to be from two angles:
(1) Biometric checks at ticket gates
(2) Biometrics being used to identify targets and automatically charge/arrest/apprehend then.
Neither of these are being proposed.
Again, biometrics could be PART of a solution, and it's possibly not a good idea... But if it were to be rolled out:
Problem statement: Known dangerous people are loose on the transport network, with no knowledge or tracking by transport staff or police.
Cameras could be set up all over the transport network (they already are, anyway). Software could match biometrics with flagged individuals who present risks. Risk levels could be something like: "person of interest", "known offender - low level/mid-level/high-level", "temporary flag based on observed behaviour", "wanted violent offender", "immediate risk of theft/violence", "marauding terrorist". As risks evolve throughout the day/night, people could be tracked and resources could be standing ready. There would be human identification and decision before any contact, and the system would be regulated and transparent.
This would, if not abused, be a proportionate overwatch system that would protect innocent people, be cautious of known offenders and be used to quickly track and apprehend dangerous people and criminals. A system like this would probably have prevented the recent attack and make transport police much more efficient. We're heading in this direction already, however there are a few concerns, both around the accuracy of the biometric (facial recognition, gait analysis, etc.) software and the potential for abuse/privacy concerns. |
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" He is a person with many problems for sure
Less problems than the ten people he’s knifed and the others he’s traumatised.
He’s also very lucky the police tasered him, had this happened in the USA he’d be full of bullets.
"
Very true |
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By *orny PTMan 26 weeks ago
Peterborough |
Here's what Daniel Shen Smith said on Black Belt Barrister
01:30 if you want to dive straight in.
Could this have been handled better?
Only 10 minutes away from mine.
I travelled on that train route (Peterborough to Biggleswade) the week previously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv1fi3cshfU
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