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Under Labour
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"Under Labour taxes have gone up over £55billion One million more people are on welfare There are 200,000 more unemployed people National debt has increased by £370 billion & is 100% of GDP 9 billionaires & 16,800 millionaires have left the U.K 12,000 people have been arrested for social media posts Strikes are costing the economy billions Small business insolvencies are up year-on-year The economy is not growing The 1,500,000 new home delivery is way behind Small boat arrivals are the highest since 2022 Starmer has been cancelling as many local elections as possible to keep the discontent at bay How much longer can this carry on " | |||
"Under Labour taxes have gone up over £55billion One million more people are on welfare There are 200,000 more unemployed people National debt has increased by £370 billion & is 100% of GDP 9 billionaires & 16,800 millionaires have left the U.K 12,000 people have been arrested for social media posts Strikes are costing the economy billions Small business insolvencies are up year-on-year The economy is not growing The 1,500,000 new home delivery is way behind Small boat arrivals are the highest since 2022 Starmer has been cancelling as many local elections as possible to keep the discontent at bay How much longer can this carry on " About 3 1/2 years give or take a month or so. | |||
"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people" You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. | |||
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"Under Labour taxes have gone up over £55billion One million more people are on welfare There are 200,000 more unemployed people National debt has increased by £370 billion & is 100% of GDP 9 billionaires & 16,800 millionaires have left the U.K 12,000 people have been arrested for social media posts Strikes are costing the economy billions Small business insolvencies are up year-on-year The economy is not growing The 1,500,000 new home delivery is way behind Small boat arrivals are the highest since 2022 Starmer has been cancelling as many local elections as possible to keep the discontent at bay How much longer can this carry on " It would be quite impressive if the current administration managed to do all that in 18 months You will have to tell me how those metrics compare to how the former administration did in the 15 years they were in power…. I’ll wait…….. | |||
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"Under Labour taxes have gone up over £55billion One million more people are on welfare There are 200,000 more unemployed people National debt has increased by £370 billion & is 100% of GDP 9 billionaires & 16,800 millionaires have left the U.K 12,000 people have been arrested for social media posts Strikes are costing the economy billions Small business insolvencies are up year-on-year The economy is not growing The 1,500,000 new home delivery is way behind Small boat arrivals are the highest since 2022 Starmer has been cancelling as many local elections as possible to keep the discontent at bay How much longer can this carry on " But apart from all that, everything is fine, yes  | |||
"Under Labour taxes have gone up over £55billion One million more people are on welfare There are 200,000 more unemployed people National debt has increased by £370 billion & is 100% of GDP 9 billionaires & 16,800 millionaires have left the U.K 12,000 people have been arrested for social media posts Strikes are costing the economy billions Small business insolvencies are up year-on-year The economy is not growing The 1,500,000 new home delivery is way behind Small boat arrivals are the highest since 2022 Starmer has been cancelling as many local elections as possible to keep the discontent at bay How much longer can this carry on It would be quite impressive if the current administration managed to do all that in 18 months You will have to tell me how those metrics compare to how the former administration did in the 15 years they were in power…. I’ll wait…….." This is the typical response to criticism of policy and actions taken . I.e. It's useless but the previous administration were worse for longer . However the new administration were elected on the basis that they would improve the situation and have not done so and seemingly their only tactic is raising taxes for years to come. They have a few more years to prove their worth but electorate will lose patience. | |||
"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them." yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure | |||
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"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure " Pretty much agree.. Inevitability that events dear boy, events playing a part but that's always the case.. The runes dont look good going forwards, especially with this modern trend of instant gratification and entitlement in some.. 'today, I want it today '.. | |||
"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure " Poorly thought out policies that brought about upset and anger, with the cuts earmarked for the treasury, which were then u-turned and the inevitable tax hikes to cover the mess. That in my opinion is how we are where we are. More diligence to prevent further upset and anger is needed over the next few years. The government have one job to do, make things stable. | |||
"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure Poorly thought out policies that brought about upset and anger, with the cuts earmarked for the treasury, which were then u-turned and the inevitable tax hikes to cover the mess. That in my opinion is how we are where we are. More diligence to prevent further upset and anger is needed over the next few years. The government have one job to do, make things stable." Pensioners winter fuel £1.7bn before u turn Private school fee vat £500m Pip/disability £5bn before u turn Farmers iht £520m before u turn Pub business rates u turn 2% extra on property rental income tax’s- section 21s soaring and largest single cause of homelessness Chancellors CV claims u turn All insignificant sums even when combined. This is what 14 years in planning looks like. | |||
"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure Poorly thought out policies that brought about upset and anger, with the cuts earmarked for the treasury, which were then u-turned and the inevitable tax hikes to cover the mess. That in my opinion is how we are where we are. More diligence to prevent further upset and anger is needed over the next few years. The government have one job to do, make things stable. Pensioners winter fuel £1.7bn before u turn Private school fee vat £500m Pip/disability £5bn before u turn Farmers iht £520m before u turn Pub business rates u turn 2% extra on property rental income tax’s- section 21s soaring and largest single cause of homelessness Chancellors CV claims u turn All insignificant sums even when combined. This is what 14 years in planning looks like. " I seem to remember that their plans were " fully costed and fully funded " I didn't realise the funding was coming from tax rises they didn't mention . | |||
" I seem to remember that their plans were " fully costed and fully funded " I didn't realise the funding was coming from tax rises they didn't mention . " Labours 2024 manifesto is titled Change 136 pages of broken pledges | |||
"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure " With the greatest of respect, if some one f the figures are not correct, The OP should be quoting the correct figures…. Or not be quoting them at all It’s deception either by omission or downright lying to suit the narrative Either way it’s not good faith and the OP has had time to correct, but has not done so in his other posts So the first thing should be if we are having a good faith conversation should be that he disclose where the figures come from …. | |||
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"Please correct your numbers You are misinforming people You could help us all by providing some accurate numbers. I'd be interested to see them. yes some of the figures are not accurate but the general trend is not good. there is low growth higher taxes & no obvious improvement in services . No clear direction or long term plan . the government has managed to slightly annoy everyone without managing to make people feel better off or more secure Poorly thought out policies that brought about upset and anger, with the cuts earmarked for the treasury, which were then u-turned and the inevitable tax hikes to cover the mess. That in my opinion is how we are where we are. More diligence to prevent further upset and anger is needed over the next few years. The government have one job to do, make things stable. Pensioners winter fuel £1.7bn before u turn Private school fee vat £500m Pip/disability £5bn before u turn Farmers iht £520m before u turn Pub business rates u turn 2% extra on property rental income tax’s- section 21s soaring and largest single cause of homelessness Chancellors CV claims u turn All insignificant sums even when combined. This is what 14 years in planning looks like. I seem to remember that their plans were " fully costed and fully funded " I didn't realise the funding was coming from tax rises they didn't mention . " Although it's correct to say labour claimed the plans were fully costed, you have to remember it was Rachel Reeves on the calculator | |||
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"All thick gormless cunts who have ignored the damage done by the Tories are out in force on this thread. The same thick cunts who believe Brexit is working and Reform offer real hope" You must be a Government Press Officer! 🤣🤣🤣 | |||
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"All thick gormless cunts who have ignored the damage done by the Tories are out in force on this thread. The same thick cunts who believe Brexit is working and Reform offer real hope You must be a Government Press Officer! 🤣🤣🤣" No just hate gormless cunts. | |||
"All thick gormless cunts who have ignored the damage done by the Tories are out in force on this thread. The same thick cunts who believe Brexit is working and Reform offer real hope You must be a Government Press Officer! 🤣🤣🤣 No just hate gormless cunts. " 😁😁😁 | |||
"All thick gormless cunts who have ignored the damage done by the Tories are out in force on this thread. The same thick cunts who believe Brexit is working and Reform offer real hope You must be a Government Press Officer! 🤣🤣🤣 No just hate gormless cunts. " Yes I am gormless. Labour said they could be trusted on tax this time around and I wanted to believe them. I won't make that mistake again. | |||
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"Meanwhile Brexit has been an own goal which the Conservative Party still refuses to apologise for ..." What is it that you think they need to apologise for? Pushing too hard for Brexit, or not pushing hard enough? | |||
"All thick gormless cunts who have ignored the damage done by the Tories are out in force on this thread. The same thick cunts who believe Brexit is working and Reform offer real hope You must be a Government Press Officer! 🤣🤣🤣 No just hate gormless cunts. Yes I am gormless. Labour said they could be trusted on tax this time around and I wanted to believe them. I won't make that mistake again. " Do you think the fucking mess the Tories left the country in can be fixed using the magic fucking money tree. I do think they should have hit the corporations and top earner, but some cunt has to fucking pay. Two words; Liz Truss | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. " I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. " Oh fuck off, wheres the high taxes that we had in the 70's? Also we had state assets before they were fucking taken from us and given away, we were in Europe and our productivity was low because we had failed to adopt modern prodution methods (unlike now). Stop spouting bollocks you read in the Daily Mail or have been told on GBEEBIES | |||
"Meanwhile Brexit has been an own goal which the Conservative Party still refuses to apologise for ... What is it that you think they need to apologise for? Pushing too hard for Brexit, or not pushing hard enough?" The apology should be for leading the country into a binary (remain/leave) referendum with no plans whatsoever what to do if leave won , Prior to the vote the Tories favourite catch phrase "we have a long term economic plan" the morning after their leader realised they hadn't | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors " That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell | |||
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"It's back to the 1970s again. Oh fuck off, wheres the high taxes that we had in the 70's? Also we had state assets before they were fucking taken from us and given away, we were in Europe and our productivity was low because we had failed to adopt modern prodution methods (unlike now). Stop spouting bollocks you read in the Daily Mail or have been told on GBEEBIES" VAT was 8% in the 70's with a higher rate of 12.5% on certain "luxury" goods. Don't forget to "Tell Sid" about the giveaways. 
We had failed to adopt modern production methods. I wonder if it was anything to do with half the productive parts of the economy being state owned.
Vote Labour. The party that gave you the Austin Allegro. | |||
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"It is quite incredible to read how labours mismanagement of their own polices, is being palmed off as a last government issue. It is no wonder we have government that is so inept, when their supporters do not hold them to account." Labour are working very hard to beat Jim Callaghan's two years to the IMF record.  | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. Oh fuck off, wheres the high taxes that we had in the 70's? Also we had state assets before they were fucking taken from us and given away, we were in Europe and our productivity was low because we had failed to adopt modern prodution methods (unlike now). Stop spouting bollocks you read in the Daily Mail or have been told on GBEEBIES VAT was 8% in the 70's with a higher rate of 12.5% on certain "luxury" goods. Don't forget to "Tell Sid" about the giveaways.
We had failed to adopt modern production methods. I wonder if it was anything to do with half the productive parts of the economy being state owned.
Vote Labour. The party that gave you the Austin Allegro. "I passed my driving test in an Austin Allegro they were not as bad as their reputation suggested | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell " It's to be hoped thatcher knew nothing of what saville was doing , he was her Christmas guest at chequers | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell " No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x" So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. Oh fuck off, wheres the high taxes that we had in the 70's? Also we had state assets before they were fucking taken from us and given away, we were in Europe and our productivity was low because we had failed to adopt modern prodution methods (unlike now). Stop spouting bollocks you read in the Daily Mail or have been told on GBEEBIES VAT was 8% in the 70's with a higher rate of 12.5% on certain "luxury" goods. Don't forget to "Tell Sid" about the giveaways.
We had failed to adopt modern production methods. I wonder if it was anything to do with half the productive parts of the economy being state owned.
Vote Labour. The party that gave you the Austin Allegro.
I passed my driving test in an Austin Allegro they were not as bad as their reputation suggested "Passing your driving test in a likely very new instructors car was one thing. Owning one, let alone working for a dealer that sold them was a totally different matter. They were a complete bag of shit. That is before I start on the Morris Marina, Austin Maxi (gear change akin to stirring marbles with a knitting needle) Austin 1800 (Land Crab) and the hideous TR7 flying wedge. Even the Mini was years out of date by the 70's but still kept on. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses." So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x" I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke." The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x | |||
"It is quite incredible to read how labours mismanagement of their own polices, is being palmed off as a last government issue. It is no wonder we have government that is so inept, when their supporters do not hold them to account." Of course, would you expect anything else from politicians?. Problem labour have is before the GE they claimed they were the answer to sorting out the Tories mess so blaming the Tories for not actually having the answers just does not wash. Hit the ground running and fully costed plans are phrases I seem to remember. Their even bigger problem is the same as what affected the Tories in that they refuse to accept responsibility for mistakes made and want to blame anyone except themselves | |||
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"My ex wife has just been made redundant as a direct consequence of Labour's policies. Two of my local pubs are closing, both thanks to Labour. I work in property; a couple of care companies I rent property to for supported living provision are having to downsize and cut the number of clients they care for and the size of their workforce directly because of the NIC hike. Labour are beyond incompetent and are bordering on negligent." 2 businesses' I deal with at work have recently closed it seems that everyone is feeling less well off & less financially secure so not spending any money | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell It's to be hoped thatcher knew nothing of what saville was doing , he was her Christmas guest at chequers " Thatcher protected Chester MP Peter Morrison from justice. He was a close friend of hers and a prolific child abuser. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x" All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell " 2.7% average growth during the 70s. We’d kill for that now. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint." Italy, Portugal and Mexico went to the IMF. One of the reasons the UK was so susceptible to the problems caused by OPRC was our reliance on importing energy. This was due to policies from decades of decisions prior to the 70s, and I'm not saying exclusively but in the main from Tory governments. To ignore the situation that saw this arise is naive at best or maybe just an attempt to push a pro Conservative agenda. But to try an make out that the 70's was just down to one party and thier poor management is a bit silly. It would have been just as bad if the Tories had been in power. Our economy relied upon poor decisions from previous administrations and this was,a major factor in how the 70's played out. For you not to acknowledge this in your post is very narrow sighted. Mrs x | |||
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"“The UK's 2.7% average annual GDP growth in the 1970s masked significant economic turmoil, including high inflation (peaking at 25%), strikes, and the IMF bailout in 1976, yet paradoxically, real household incomes rose substantially, increasing by nearly 30% over the decade, leading to improved living standards, greater homeownership, and increased consumer spending” I remember going on holiday to Spain in the early 70s with my mum & dad. A bumpy road yes, but It wasn’t quite as bad as Thatcherites like to make out. …and when you look at the medicine Thatcher went on to deliver, that has certainly also created problems of a different nature hasn’t it that have become ever more apparent over four decades on… The free market has been the solution to all our problems though eh? " Well pointed out, Mrs x | |||
"“The UK's 2.7% average annual GDP growth in the 1970s masked significant economic turmoil, including high inflation (peaking at 25%), strikes, and the IMF bailout in 1976, yet paradoxically, real household incomes rose substantially, increasing by nearly 30% over the decade, leading to improved living standards, greater homeownership, and increased consumer spending” I remember going on holiday to Spain in the early 70s with my mum & dad. A bumpy road yes, but It wasn’t quite as bad as Thatcherites like to make out. …and when you look at the medicine Thatcher went on to deliver, that has certainly also created problems of a different nature hasn’t it that have become ever more apparent over four decades on… The free market has been the solution to all our problems though eh? " The pay rise % was influenced by huge inflation figures and rises being inline. The 70’s is not a good decade to be quoting economic figures from, such was the turmoil | |||
" I remember going on holiday to Spain in the early 70s with my mum & dad. A bumpy road yes, but It wasn’t quite as bad as Thatcherites like to make out. " So you will remember when you were only allowed to take 50 quid spending money for a foreign holiday. I remember my father being pulled to one side and searched at Manchester airport and them asking him how much money are you carrying? And that extra page in the back of passports where all foreign exchange and travellers cheques had to recorded. It was very Orwellian back then. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint.Italy, Portugal and Mexico went to the IMF. One of the reasons the UK was so susceptible to the problems caused by OPRC was our reliance on importing energy. This was due to policies from decades of decisions prior to the 70s, and I'm not saying exclusively but in the main from Tory governments. To ignore the situation that saw this arise is naive at best or maybe just an attempt to push a pro Conservative agenda. But to try an make out that the 70's was just down to one party and thier poor management is a bit silly. It would have been just as bad if the Tories had been in power. Our economy relied upon poor decisions from previous administrations and this was,a major factor in how the 70's played out. For you not to acknowledge this in your post is very narrow sighted. Mrs x" Back then I wouldn't have classed Portugal or Mexico as "major economy's" and Italy was pretty much a by word for bad government in those days. It would have been a national embarrassment to be even mentioned in the same sentence as those three on economics. The only narrow sight I see is someone trying to spin "Basket Case Britain the Sick Man of Europe" (those phrases didn't come from nowhere) into some kind of Gloriana age. The Labour party screwed up good style and well deserved the kicking they got in May 1979. Fifty years on they are doing the same again and hopefully will get an even bigger kicking whenever the next GE comes. Unless they cancel it of course. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint.Italy, Portugal and Mexico went to the IMF. One of the reasons the UK was so susceptible to the problems caused by OPRC was our reliance on importing energy. This was due to policies from decades of decisions prior to the 70s, and I'm not saying exclusively but in the main from Tory governments. To ignore the situation that saw this arise is naive at best or maybe just an attempt to push a pro Conservative agenda. But to try an make out that the 70's was just down to one party and thier poor management is a bit silly. It would have been just as bad if the Tories had been in power. Our economy relied upon poor decisions from previous administrations and this was,a major factor in how the 70's played out. For you not to acknowledge this in your post is very narrow sighted. Mrs x Back then I wouldn't have classed Portugal or Mexico as "major economy's" and Italy was pretty much a by word for bad government in those days. It would have been a national embarrassment to be even mentioned in the same sentence as those three on economics. The only narrow sight I see is someone trying to spin "Basket Case Britain the Sick Man of Europe" (those phrases didn't come from nowhere) into some kind of Gloriana age. The Labour party screwed up good style and well deserved the kicking they got in May 1979. Fifty years on they are doing the same again and hopefully will get an even bigger kicking whenever the next GE comes. Unless they cancel it of course. "From a Labour POV the mistake they made was not calling an election in the Autumn of ‘78 when they were ahead in the polls. The Winter of Discontent was the final nail in their coffin. The unions did need reining in, there was little doubt about that. When you had the likes of Red Robbo taking the piss as he did at BL…well, you might be into workers rights (as I am myself) but that was going beyond the pale. | |||
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"It's easy to criticise labour when Farage has little interest in facts or truth and tells the low iq sheep what they want to hear while promising the elite more riches. Id they were to win the country would be fucked " Labour are being criticised for the poor start their government had and is still having. We can’t get away from the issues they have created just as we can’t walk away from the previous government and the government before then. Farage has nothing to do with Labours own goals, but if he is someone people can pin their anger on, so be it. | |||
"It's easy to criticise labour when Farage has little interest in facts or truth and tells the low iq sheep what they want to hear while promising the elite more riches. Id they were to win the country would be fucked " Chatting shit is not exclusive to Reform Hard to know where this is going You Gov has Tory and Labour sliding again. Labour vote intention 19%, Tory at 20%, Reform at 24% last time I looked. | |||
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"Labour also making a catastrophic mess of defence. No plans yet for promised spending increases (hint, they will never happen), Senior Military figures saying we are totally unready for any emergency." Apparently the chief of the defence staff was in front of the defence committee yesterday. Not really much was said about ammunition, weaponry or recruitment but quite a lot of waffle about Whitehall strategy and budget methodology. It droned on for a couple of hours and toward the end Michelle Scrogham Labour MP for Barrow & Furness (you know, the town where they build submarines) finally got her moment of glory with a question. Ukraine maybe? Greenland? Iran possibly? She could even have kept it local and asked about submarines. Nope, she had much more important things to ask. To her the most important military issue was why was there a portrait of the 4th Earl of Sandwich's mistress hanging on the wall at Admiralty House? You really couldn't make these clowns up. | |||
"Labour also making a catastrophic mess of defence. No plans yet for promised spending increases (hint, they will never happen), Senior Military figures saying we are totally unready for any emergency." Still looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq | |||
"Labour also making a catastrophic mess of defence. No plans yet for promised spending increases (hint, they will never happen), Senior Military figures saying we are totally unready for any emergency. Still looking for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq "  | |||
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"Keir Starmer set for 13th major U-turn as mandatory Digital IDs scrapped "Streeting kicking off that key policy objectives being undone. | |||
"Keir Starmer set for 13th major U-turn as mandatory Digital IDs scrapped
Streeting kicking off that key policy objectives being undone. "I don't understand the digital ID u-turn. The reason why they wanted digital ID is to mandate it for everyone who is working, thereby stopping illegal immigrants from working. And now, they are saying that we don't need digital ID for that and employers should be able to check the right to work using other means. But the digital ID concept isn't going away. If the digital ID was introduced to stop illegal immigration and now they aren't really used for illegal immigration, what's the point of still introducing digital ID. Personally, I don't mind the concept of digital ID and I think it could reduce some bureaucratic overhead. But the government has to get their narrative straight. | |||
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"Keir Starmer set for 13th major U-turn as mandatory Digital IDs scrapped "Love the use of 'major' to create an air of drama. Were any of the other 12 really major,either? We all knew that the digital Id. thing was only to test the waters. | |||
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"Possibly the biggest disaster of this Government announced yesterday- Mad Ed Milliband has tied UK into a 20 year deal for North Sea wind power at almost twice currently kwh rate of gas (minus carbon tax) - £95 v £55 ! However the infrastructure needed to move power from offshore to domestic supply is still largely unbuilt, will cost billions more on our bills, and if its not ready in time we'll have to pay to switch off the wind turbines so network can cope. It's PFI on steroids and will give UK highest energy costs in world for decades." Agreed. The totally unjust carbon tax adds 30 to 40% onto wholesale electricity prices. Even with the carbon taxes added, mad red Ed has signed us up to paying about £15 per MWh more than the next most expensive generation (gas) for the next 20 years. We already have some of the most expensive electricity prices in the world and now it’s going to get worse. Notwithstanding the costs of connecting the wind farms to the grid, and the variability of generation coupled with the lack of storage which will add trillions of pounds to the cost. This government is dangerous - that’s not to say that previous governments were much better. | |||
"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint.Italy, Portugal and Mexico went to the IMF. One of the reasons the UK was so susceptible to the problems caused by OPRC was our reliance on importing energy. This was due to policies from decades of decisions prior to the 70s, and I'm not saying exclusively but in the main from Tory governments. To ignore the situation that saw this arise is naive at best or maybe just an attempt to push a pro Conservative agenda. But to try an make out that the 70's was just down to one party and thier poor management is a bit silly. It would have been just as bad if the Tories had been in power. Our economy relied upon poor decisions from previous administrations and this was,a major factor in how the 70's played out. For you not to acknowledge this in your post is very narrow sighted. Mrs x Back then I wouldn't have classed Portugal or Mexico as "major economy's" and Italy was pretty much a by word for bad government in those days. It would have been a national embarrassment to be even mentioned in the same sentence as those three on economics. The only narrow sight I see is someone trying to spin "Basket Case Britain the Sick Man of Europe" (those phrases didn't come from nowhere) into some kind of Gloriana age. The Labour party screwed up good style and well deserved the kicking they got in May 1979. Fifty years on they are doing the same again and hopefully will get an even bigger kicking whenever the next GE comes. Unless they cancel it of course. "So no recognition why the UK was in such a vulnerable position in relation to the OPEC crisis? That was a huge factor in our economic struggles in the 70's but you just dont seem to want to accept that, why is that? Because the fault lies with governments policies going back decades and was not just of Labours making. The Tories served for many more terms and for much longer than Labour but you arent attributing any of these problems on them. Thats just not true. Mrs x | |||
"Does it matter if a U turn is major or minor it still gives the wrong impression. Weak, indecisive management or subject to targeted lobbying. No doubt it will be given enough spin to make it sound like a win or if that fails they can always blame the previous government (as usual)." Pretty much my thoughts as well. Major or minor is probably dependent on how it affects individuals. This particular plan was however a prime ministers flagship policy so I would see that as major to them at least. If the U turns carry on at this rate, they will have to resurface the downing street tarmac | |||
"Does it matter if a U turn is major or minor it still gives the wrong impression. Weak, indecisive management or subject to targeted lobbying. No doubt it will be given enough spin to make it sound like a win or if that fails they can always blame the previous government (as usual). Pretty much my thoughts as well. Major or minor is probably dependent on how it affects individuals. This particular plan was however a prime ministers flagship policy so I would see that as major to them at least. If the U turns carry on at this rate, they will have to resurface the downing street tarmac " the occasional u turn is ok but if it happens too regularly it makes it look like you do not know what you are doing, why did you not get it right the first time? | |||
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"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint.Italy, Portugal and Mexico went to the IMF. One of the reasons the UK was so susceptible to the problems caused by OPRC was our reliance on importing energy. This was due to policies from decades of decisions prior to the 70s, and I'm not saying exclusively but in the main from Tory governments. To ignore the situation that saw this arise is naive at best or maybe just an attempt to push a pro Conservative agenda. But to try an make out that the 70's was just down to one party and thier poor management is a bit silly. It would have been just as bad if the Tories had been in power. Our economy relied upon poor decisions from previous administrations and this was,a major factor in how the 70's played out. For you not to acknowledge this in your post is very narrow sighted. Mrs x Back then I wouldn't have classed Portugal or Mexico as "major economy's" and Italy was pretty much a by word for bad government in those days. It would have been a national embarrassment to be even mentioned in the same sentence as those three on economics. The only narrow sight I see is someone trying to spin "Basket Case Britain the Sick Man of Europe" (those phrases didn't come from nowhere) into some kind of Gloriana age. The Labour party screwed up good style and well deserved the kicking they got in May 1979. Fifty years on they are doing the same again and hopefully will get an even bigger kicking whenever the next GE comes. Unless they cancel it of course. So no recognition why the UK was in such a vulnerable position in relation to the OPEC crisis?
That was a huge factor in our economic struggles in the 70's but you just dont seem to want to accept that, why is that? Because the fault lies with governments policies going back decades and was not just of Labours making. The Tories served for many more terms and for much longer than Labour but you arent attributing any of these problems on them. Thats just not true.
Mrs x"I did not say that the OPEC crisis had no effect. Of course it did. But it also had an effect on the rest of the western economy's. Of the worlds major economy's Britain was the only one who had to be bailed out by the IMF. And that was after 13 years of Labour government. Albeit with a short interlude with Heath but even he was hamstrung by the Labour unions. In 10 short years Britain went from "you've never had it so good" to devaluing the pound. Something Labour did twice post war. And something that would come back to bite them on the arse when the OPEC crisis did hit (remember oil was and is priced in dollars) You can deflect as much as you like but the title "sick man of Europe" was firmly on Labour's watch. | |||
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"It's back to the 1970s again. I enjoyed the 70s:cars fashion music, affordable housing & a sense of optimism sadly missing today. there were problems: strikes, 3 day week, Jimmy Savile & Rolf Harris on the TV . 80s were the problem when that evil woman got in & started selling everything off. to dodgy bankers & foreign investors That is one hell of a pair of rose coloured glasses you have. Yes I also enjoyed a lot in the 70's. The music (some of) the fashion and I bought my first house in 1980. We knew nothing then about Saville, Harris or Hall so actually quite enjoyed them on the TV. I wonder who is on TV today who in years to come will be uncovered as someone a bit more sinister. But here's where the rose coloured glasses tend to clear a bit. The 3 day week and power cuts were actually under Heath's government but well and truly orchestrated by Labour and the unions with the sole intention of bringing down an elected government. Which after the 2 1974 GE's they succeeded. Labour returned to power and in 2 short years had bankrupted the country to the extent that Britain needed a bailout from the IMF. Interest rates soared from around 5% in 1977 to 12% in 1979. To be fair they did stay high throughout the 80's as well. Unemployment also soared in the late 70's which prompted the famous "Labour isn't Working" poster. Again to be fair it did carry on rising in the 80's but the seed had already been sown. The big issue though was union power. Throughout the 70's the unions had pretty much gone feral culminating in the so called "winter of discontent". Enter Margaret Thatcher. What a lot of people don't remember is that the previous Labour government had produced a white paper on union power a good 10 years earlier which actually contained many of Mr's T's reforms. But then kicked it into the long grass. She didn't get everything right. I think even the staunchest Tory would concede that. But she got the country believing in itself again. She did flog off (your term not mine) a lot of things. But no-one ever asks why? Just this belief that is was to enrich her "mates" in the city and "Tell Sid" has been well and truly forgotten. Also forgotten is the 6 to 9 months it took to get a new telephone installed or the 1 million a day that state owned British steel was losing. Sounds a lot now but back then it was eye watering. The list could go on. Britain really was the "sick man of Europe" in the 70's. Margaret Thatcher administered the medicine, some of it tasted like shit, but the patient came out the other side and she built the foundations that that were enjoyed in the early Blair years. I think winning 3 GE's on the bounce tells you a lot. Do you, or anyone else really think that Britain would have been better off if sunny Jim (crisis, what crisis) Callaghan had been re-elected in 1979? Not a hope in hell No mention of OPEC and their role in really fucking our economy, but dont let the truth get in the way of a good story, Mrs x So Germany, Japan and all the other successful country's didn't use oil? Don't let a good look over there finger block those rose coloured glasses.So let's get this right, you are saying that OPEC didnt impact these countries? That it didnt cause inflationary pressure, elevated energy costs and made both the countries you stated look at other alternative energy supplies? Yeah, OPEC had no negative effects there haha, Mrs x I think you must have missed the question mark. It looks like this ? Of course OPEC caused a big problem but Germany, Japan and pretty much the rest of the world didn't go skint because of it. They didn't go cap in hand to the IMF. They even did quite well. Labours Britain went broke.The fact that you didnt mention it as a factor appears a bit disingenuous. However your point that the other countries did quite well is over simplifying the situation. A quick AI search suggests otherwise, they say... "While the UK was heavily affected, other European countries, like Germany and France, also experienced significant economic strain. The oil price hikes caused inflation, reduced economic growth, and led to energy shortages across the continent. And beyond Europe, countries around the world, including the US and Japan, faced similar challenges. It really sent ripples through the global economy, influencing everything from trade balances to industrial policies." The 70s was a challenging time globally not just in the UK, Mrs x All true, but of the major economy's only Labour's Britain needed an IMF bailout. None of the others went skint.Italy, Portugal and Mexico went to the IMF. One of the reasons the UK was so susceptible to the problems caused by OPRC was our reliance on importing energy. This was due to policies from decades of decisions prior to the 70s, and I'm not saying exclusively but in the main from Tory governments. To ignore the situation that saw this arise is naive at best or maybe just an attempt to push a pro Conservative agenda. But to try an make out that the 70's was just down to one party and thier poor management is a bit silly. It would have been just as bad if the Tories had been in power. Our economy relied upon poor decisions from previous administrations and this was,a major factor in how the 70's played out. For you not to acknowledge this in your post is very narrow sighted. Mrs x Back then I wouldn't have classed Portugal or Mexico as "major economy's" and Italy was pretty much a by word for bad government in those days. It would have been a national embarrassment to be even mentioned in the same sentence as those three on economics. The only narrow sight I see is someone trying to spin "Basket Case Britain the Sick Man of Europe" (those phrases didn't come from nowhere) into some kind of Gloriana age. The Labour party screwed up good style and well deserved the kicking they got in May 1979. Fifty years on they are doing the same again and hopefully will get an even bigger kicking whenever the next GE comes. Unless they cancel it of course. So no recognition why the UK was in such a vulnerable position in relation to the OPEC crisis?
That was a huge factor in our economic struggles in the 70's but you just dont seem to want to accept that, why is that? Because the fault lies with governments policies going back decades and was not just of Labours making. The Tories served for many more terms and for much longer than Labour but you arent attributing any of these problems on them. Thats just not true.
Mrs x
I did not say that the OPEC crisis had no effect. Of course it did. But it also had an effect on the rest of the western economy's.
Of the worlds major economy's Britain was the only one who had to be bailed out by the IMF. And that was after 13 years of Labour government. Albeit with a short interlude with Heath but even he was hamstrung by the Labour unions.
In 10 short years Britain went from "you've never had it so good" to devaluing the pound. Something Labour did twice post war. And something that would come back to bite them on the arse when the OPEC crisis did hit (remember oil was and is priced in dollars)
You can deflect as much as you like but the title "sick man of Europe" was firmly on Labour's watch.
"You are admitting OPEC played a 'part' in your posts now but you failed to make any reference to it before, thats why I brought it up. Your insistence that this is a mainly Labour issue, is way off the mark. The problem Labour had is that our reliance on external energy sources saw us being extremely vulnerable to what OPEC did in 1973, on 'the Tories watch', to coin a phrase. Labour then had to deal with this mess, something no party could have dealt with due to the poor policy decisions on both sides. However to just say it was down to Labour, is both childish and wrong. This tragedy has it roots in Conservative policy as they were the first administration to introduce this. The shift toward prioritizing external oil over domestic coal really began in earnest during the late 1950s and into the 1960s. While the Labour government under Clement Attlee (1945-1951) initially focused on rebuilding the economy with a heavy emphasis on coal, the trend toward oil started to pick up later. The Conservative government of Harold Macmillan (1957-1963) played a significant role in this transition. During his tenure, the UK began importing more oil as part of a broader strategy to modernize the energy sector and meet growing energy demands. In the 1960s, under successive Conservative and Labour governments, the UK continued to increase oil imports, especially as the global oil market expanded and oil became more cost-effective compared to coal. By the time of the 1973 OPEC crisis, the UK’s reliance on imported oil was firmly in place, and the vulnerabilities became evident. So, as you can see, the process began under the Conservative government of Harold Macmillan in the late 1950s and early 1960s, it continued through the 1960s and 1970s under both Conservative and Labour administrations, ultimately setting the stage for the vulnerabilities seen during the OPEC crisis. Therefore if its acknowledged that the huge problem today in social housing can be traced back to Thatchers 'Right to Buy', then the problems caused by OPEC can be traced back to Macmillian's governments choice to prioritise foreign oil over domestic coal, reversing the policy of Atlees government. So whilst the 70's is conveniently seen as an example of poor governance by Labour, they had to deal with the behemoth problems instigated through poor energy policy making by both parties bit which was undoubtedly started by the Tories. Is that 'spinny' enough for you? It would be lovely if you could counter this with some actual facts other than pointing out that the UK performed worse in this period without explaining why that may be the case. Looking forward to seeing what you have to say. Oh and since the war, up to 1979, Labour was in office for approximately 16 years 1 month, whilst the Tories were in power for approxinately 16 years, 9 months, with the Lib/Lab Pact lasting approximately 14 mobths, since you mentioned tenure, Mrs x | |||
