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Why is British politics so broken?
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The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts? |
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This is nothing new we have had the same old shit for the last 40 years it's just more noticeable now because of the intern a lot more of there crap ideas are available to the public is a lot harder to keep there mistakes under wraps |
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It's what happens when political party's are run by activists. Trust me I've seen it.
The ones who regularly turn up to meetings, the ones who pound the pavements canvassing and delivering leaflets. They are the ones who get pushed forward as candidates at local level. Many of them as thick as a plank. Trust me I've seen that as well.
From there they clamber up the greasy pole and the better ones or more pushy ones (of a particularly bad bunch) will get a place on some quango or other where they will sit for an hour or two, nod their heads then retire for (a heavily subsidised) lunch. Trust me I've not only seen it, I've done it. Albeit briefly.
From there a very small number, usually the most pushy, will get noticed nationally and the lucky ones will finish up in Westminster with the official title MP and the unofficial title lobby fodder.
A few ex lawyers and the like come up through the jobs for the boys route and they are the ones who mostly get the plum jobs.
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Yet UK has some of the best universities and academics on the globe, experts in all fields
Yet we get bottom of the barrel politicians and their wank policies that the public vote for
Brexit, Johnson’s 40 new hospitals, Labours 1.5 million new homes to mention a few, and a seven fold increase in the national debt since 1997. |
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"It's what happens when political party's are run by activists. Trust me I've seen it.
"
This is a huge reason. You get people who are fixated on their political theory of the world and forget that the goal is to actually make a _practical_ difference in the world. They speak the words but miss the action.
A politician who could actually fix the potholes in the street would be reelected until the universe cooled down. |
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The system just reflects the people. Anyone can join a party and stand as a candidate, it's total democracy, surely people like Angela Rayner prove this.
So if you don't like it and want to know who to blame , take a long look in the mirror |
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Just a few observations…
Perhaps we need to ask what we expect from our politicians? For example do you want your MP to represent just the local issues, or do you want them to try and influence national policies?
Are we trying to solve 21st century problems with 18th, 19th and 20th century ways of running the country?
Controversial opinion, but are they paid enough?
Most of the decent ones just end up on the back benches, whilst the career orientated ones go for the higher positions.
I think the total lack of faith in politicians can be traced back to the Expenses Scandal.
Rory Stewart’s ‘Politics on the edge’ is a good account of the difficulties of being an MP and a Minister, and trying to juggle the demands of both roles. |
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We have a centre left party that's supposed to represent workers but has been taken over by the upper middle class progressives for a long time. Whenever they come to power, they have this habit of establishing numerous quangos full of civil servants and bureaucrats who align with the progressive ideology. They make it really difficult to push forward any changes.
Then you have the centre right party that has sold their soul to corporates and is conservative only in name. They try to get away doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo set by the centre left party while ensuring that the corporates get what they want.
Neither of the parties seem to care for the common people. This is exactly the kind of situation that leads to parties like Reform and Greens. France and Germany are also in a similar situation. |
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By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago
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"We have a centre left party that's supposed to represent workers but has been taken over by the upper middle class progressives for a long time. Whenever they come to power, they have this habit of establishing numerous quangos full of civil servants and bureaucrats who align with the progressive ideology. They make it really difficult to push forward any changes.
Then you have the centre right party that has sold their soul to corporates and is conservative only in name. They try to get away doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo set by the centre left party while ensuring that the corporates get what they want.
Neither of the parties seem to care for the common people. This is exactly the kind of situation that leads to parties like Reform and Greens. France and Germany are also in a similar situation."
Also a Liberal party that is extremely illiberal (not accepting Brexit result for example) and a Green Party that seems more obsessed with Gaza and Trans issues than recycling ! |
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"We have a centre left party that's supposed to represent workers but has been taken over by the upper middle class progressives for a long time. Whenever they come to power, they have this habit of establishing numerous quangos full of civil servants and bureaucrats who align with the progressive ideology. They make it really difficult to push forward any changes.
Then you have the centre right party that has sold their soul to corporates and is conservative only in name. They try to get away doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo set by the centre left party while ensuring that the corporates get what they want.
Neither of the parties seem to care for the common people. This is exactly the kind of situation that leads to parties like Reform and Greens. France and Germany are also in a similar situation.
Also a Liberal party that is extremely illiberal (not accepting Brexit result for example) and a Green Party that seems more obsessed with Gaza and Trans issues than recycling !"
A green party that's anti-nuclear 🤮 |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?"
I've tried to find the post that someone else made recently, but I can't, so I'll have to paraphrase it.
The problem with politics in the UK is down to our long-lasting two party system. The majority of people have made their minds up, and will only ever vote for the party they have chosen. There's no point in the politicians appealing to those people. If they want power they can ignore those that will definitely vote for them, and instead focus on the fringe where the swing voters live. That means promoting minority policies to appeal to those groups, like identity politics for Labour, and immigration for the Tories. That results in political parties that appear to only concern themselves with oddball minority viewpoints, and don't seem to acknowledge the majority.
That's why so many people have switched off from politics, what politicians say doesn't seem to have any impact on their own lives, and no one seems to be listening to what they want. It's also why all politicians seem to be useless, because they have to be very careful what they say to avoid annoying those swing voters on the fringe that could lose them the next election. |
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The trouble is they get into power, fiddle about with economy, experiment with our lives, claim glory when the public get them out of trouble, blame the opposition when it goes wrong.
Churchill was the last PM worth voting for. |
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It’s pretty much politics everywhere it’s just how broken it is that varies.
I think part of it is down to your average person just gets in with life whereas the persons who go into politics likely to have strong views one way or the other and like most things it’s those that make the most fuss usually are the ones heard.
Oh and find it an easy way to enrich themselves |
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"The trouble is they get into power, fiddle about with economy, experiment with our lives, claim glory when the public get them out of trouble, blame the opposition when it goes wrong.
Churchill was the last PM worth voting for."
apart from being a decent wartime leader the man was a vile human being before 1940 |
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My personal summery:
Deindustrialization since the 70s hasn’t just stripped Britain of a lot of good jobs for working people who could build a life around, and support a family, it also took away a sense of community. Obviously I’m 26, so I didn’t see it up close, but from my readings and what people say, that’s it. Country hasn’t had a real sense of itself in a long time.
Also, politicians always recognising the change in mood far too late. For example on immigration.
I consider myself liberal, but it’s insanity to not conclude that mass migration, especially from parts of the world with cultures that are fundamentally at odds with our values, won’t cause social upheaval and disruption.
But for a long time, any attempts to address it were always demonised as part of a fascist ploy. And in a self-fulfilling way, the only ones who then would address it were racists.
And by the time mainstream discourse did accept this state of affairs as unattainable, the far right had already gained a foothold, I,e Reform and Tommy Robinson etc. |
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"Christ he's actually approved the Chinese spy Centre.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️"
That is a very bad decision.
It really shows his weakness and it probably makes him the biggest appeaser since Chamberlain. |
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By (user no longer on site) 15 weeks ago
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"Christ he's actually approved the Chinese spy Centre.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
That is a very bad decision.
It really shows his weakness and it probably makes him the biggest appeaser since Chamberlain."
Will also go down like a sack of sh*t with the Americans. |
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"Christ he's actually approved the Chinese spy Centre.🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️"
Apparently the planning inspector said that rejecting the embassy because it was for China would be discriminatory so who it was for could not be a “material consideration “.
The minister for housing approved it and has “taken all material considerations into account”.
You couldn’t make it up. |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?"
Could be worse could live in the states |
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"British politics is far from broken, is it perfect. No and never will be, however to say it is broken that Britain is broken is just nonsese.
We have never had it so good."
Really?
Can’t decide whether this is sarcasm or not.
If not, what is still good? |
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By *uietbloke67Man 14 weeks ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"British politics is far from broken, is it perfect. No and never will be, however to say it is broken that Britain is broken is just nonsese.
We have never had it so good.
Really?
Can’t decide whether this is sarcasm or not.
If not, what is still good?"
Its far from sarcasm, its a fact.
Your granny had to walk to the bottom of the garden for a shite in the outside toilet, cant see you doing that.
Is any country perfect, no, is Britain broken....lot of reform agenda nonsense. |
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"British politics is far from broken, is it perfect. No and never will be, however to say it is broken that Britain is broken is just nonsese.
We have never had it so good.
Really?
Can’t decide whether this is sarcasm or not.
If not, what is still good?
Its far from sarcasm, its a fact.
Your granny had to walk to the bottom of the garden for a shite in the outside toilet, cant see you doing that.
Is any country perfect, no, is Britain broken....lot of reform agenda nonsense."
Britain is broken, there is no real sense of pride any more.
There is a general air of decline - litter, graffiti, poor maintenance of infrastructure, increased low level crime which the police do nothing about, increased organised crime mainly fuelled by drugs.
The authorities don’t care, they are too busy spending our money on people who should really look after themselves. The level of service on things that matter in terms of quality of life is very poor. It’s the council’s job to maintain roads and pavements, empty the bins, improve quality of life and education with leisure facilities and libraries. They don’t do that, they waste money on “social services” and other useless rubbish.
This is mainly the result of poor policies by successive governments, which trickle down to local level. Insidious tolerance of poor behaviour and lowering of standards. Treating everyone as a victim instead of punishing the wrongdoers. Failure to enforce parenting standards. Etc….
Each generation has got worse as none have been taught that they are wrong.
So, both Britain and British politics are broken. |
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The public perception of leaders and governments fell sharply during the 14 years and multiple leaders of the conservatives and would be a near impossible task to try to right quickly. Those governments effected a fuller emptying of public monies away from the benefits of the majority. Farage is more of the same, albeit under the successful mantra of change that Labour won on. The millionaires that have run the show or are pushing to do it, are largely inept in having the qualities of helping the majority. They are a throwback to the era of empire. Brexit has certainly been the major demise of the future security and prosperity of the UK, enabled by Farage and Cameron, neither of them understanding true working class life or demonstrating abilities to fix these major ills.
I think few want to hear the truth so fall for charlatans who lie, even though it's absolutely not in our best interests |
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"The public perception of leaders and governments fell sharply during the 14 years and multiple leaders of the conservatives and would be a near impossible task to try to right quickly. Those governments effected a fuller emptying of public monies away from the benefits of the majority. Farage is more of the same, albeit under the successful mantra of change that Labour won on. The millionaires that have run the show or are pushing to do it, are largely inept in having the qualities of helping the majority. They are a throwback to the era of empire. Brexit has certainly been the major demise of the future security and prosperity of the UK, enabled by Farage and Cameron, neither of them understanding true working class life or demonstrating abilities to fix these major ills.
I think few want to hear the truth so fall for charlatans who lie, even though it's absolutely not in our best interests "
people lost trust in politicians in this country under Blair and it carried on under the tories and now we have another bellend in charge with his student union cabinet |
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By *uietbloke67Man 14 weeks ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"British politics is far from broken, is it perfect. No and never will be, however to say it is broken that Britain is broken is just nonsese.
We have never had it so good.
Really?
Can’t decide whether this is sarcasm or not.
If not, what is still good?
Its far from sarcasm, its a fact.
Your granny had to walk to the bottom of the garden for a shite in the outside toilet, cant see you doing that.
Is any country perfect, no, is Britain broken....lot of reform agenda nonsense.
Britain is broken, there is no real sense of pride any more.
There is a general air of decline - litter, graffiti, poor maintenance of infrastructure, increased low level crime which the police do nothing about, increased organised crime mainly fuelled by drugs.
The authorities don’t care, they are too busy spending our money on people who should really look after themselves. The level of service on things that matter in terms of quality of life is very poor. It’s the council’s job to maintain roads and pavements, empty the bins, improve quality of life and education with leisure facilities and libraries. They don’t do that, they waste money on “social services” and other useless rubbish.
This is mainly the result of poor policies by successive governments, which trickle down to local level. Insidious tolerance of poor behaviour and lowering of standards. Treating everyone as a victim instead of punishing the wrongdoers. Failure to enforce parenting standards. Etc….
Each generation has got worse as none have been taught that they are wrong.
So, both Britain and British politics are broken."
Absolute nonsense.
You need to cheer up |
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Simple. We are broken because at last election 80% of the population who voted were disenfranchised by our archaic FPTP electoral system. I just hope when Reform win in 2029 (this gov will cling on to bitter end) they fulfil their promise to change our electoral system.
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By *uietbloke67Man 14 weeks ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"Simple. We are broken because at last election 80% of the population who voted were disenfranchised by our archaic FPTP electoral system. I just hope when Reform win in 2029 (this gov will cling on to bitter end) they fulfil their promise to change our electoral system.
"
Careful what you wish for...look at the shit show across the water |
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"Would also say this is not just a British problem, most European countries have similar breakdown of the social contract."
No problem. Just rename it the 'social compact'.
Nobody will notice a different name with a different meaning. |
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"
...
A politician who could actually fix the potholes in the street would be reelected until the universe cooled down."
How how would fixing potholes really help with the electorate's social climbing aspirations?
There's only one main reason why people support a particular party at election time and it isn't often altruism. |
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"The public perception of leaders and governments fell sharply during the 14 years and multiple leaders of the conservatives and would be a near impossible task to try to right quickly. Those governments effected a fuller emptying of public monies away from the benefits of the majority. Farage is more of the same, albeit under the successful mantra of change that Labour won on. The millionaires that have run the show or are pushing to do it, are largely inept in having the qualities of helping the majority. They are a throwback to the era of empire. Brexit has certainly been the major demise of the future security and prosperity of the UK, enabled by Farage and Cameron, neither of them understanding true working class life or demonstrating abilities to fix these major ills.
I think few want to hear the truth so fall for charlatans who lie, even though it's absolutely not in our best interests "
Great comments. What i notice is how “politics” is driven by division and blame. And that blame is then employed to justify the latest round of cuts…
It’s always Farage/Jenrick/braverman/Mahmood/etc pointing the finger at migrants, yet no one remembers to point the finger at Thatcher’s crooked 1983 policy of privatising discounted council houses (for votes!!!) for the lack of houses to buy for an affordable rent/price down the line. She made sure councils didn’t replace the stock sold, diverting the proceeds to central government!
Or the filthy rivers - we sold off strategic national water assets in 1989 for peanuts to private investors who eventually offshored the wealth and stripped the assets leaving us holding the baby. You can’t blame migrants for that! But do politicians do anything to stop the flow of our money into offshore havens or antipodean pension funds? Of course not! That’s where all the cash vanishes to, not some disabled pensioner on the breadline, or asylum seeker desperate to work and pay tax. But where the establishment benefits i doubt we’ll see much change whilst we keep blaming 40000 migrants for our woes.
Or the disjointed planning system which means whole estates are built without schools, shops or doctors’ surgeries. i could go on!
That said, i don’t have to shit at the end of the garden any more and we have universal healthcare at half the per capita cost of only 2/3 Americans, who have trusted in private healthcare markets… so it could be much worse.  |
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"But do politicians do anything to stop the flow of our money into offshore havens or antipodean pension funds? Of course not!"
By what mechanism is money flowing from the British state into pension funds in Australia and New Zealand? |
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I have long believed that nobody gets elevated in our systems of power if they have no skeletons in their closet. They are easily manipulated. What remains of politics is theatre so bad that they hope we will boo and disengage.
FPTP is so detached from real democracy that it hardly qualifies.
Our whole political system is a mess, rigged by design. |
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I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us. |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us."
|
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
"
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit. |
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"It's what happens when political party's are run by activists. Trust me I've seen it.
The ones who regularly turn up to meetings, the ones who pound the pavements canvassing and delivering leaflets. They are the ones who get pushed forward as candidates at local level. Many of them as thick as a plank. Trust me I've seen that as well.
From there they clamber up the greasy pole and the better ones or more pushy ones (of a particularly bad bunch) will get a place on some quango or other where they will sit for an hour or two, nod their heads then retire for (a heavily subsidised) lunch. Trust me I've not only seen it, I've done it. Albeit briefly.
From there a very small number, usually the most pushy, will get noticed nationally and the lucky ones will finish up in Westminster with the official title MP and the unofficial title lobby fodder.
A few ex lawyers and the like come up through the jobs for the boys route and they are the ones who mostly get the plum jobs.
"
Aren't we supposed to be impressed and admire their commitment compared to others who haven't worked as hard? |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit."
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense? |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit."
I don't feel they get involved with my life at all.
I don't blame local politicians for not fixing roads etc as I wouldn't get off my arse to fix them either.
I can't think of a worse job than a politician, couldn't take the whining and grief. 🤣 |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?"
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media. |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media. "
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system. |
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By *andM4FunCouple 14 weeks ago
Cambridgeshire |
"We have a centre left party that's supposed to represent workers but has been taken over by the upper middle class progressives for a long time. Whenever they come to power, they have this habit of establishing numerous quangos full of civil servants and bureaucrats who align with the progressive ideology. They make it really difficult to push forward any changes.
Then you have the centre right party that has sold their soul to corporates and is conservative only in name. They try to get away doing the bare minimum and maintaining the status quo set by the centre left party while ensuring that the corporates get what they want.
Neither of the parties seem to care for the common people. This is exactly the kind of situation that leads to parties like Reform and Greens. France and Germany are also in a similar situation.
Also a Liberal party that is extremely illiberal (not accepting Brexit result for example) and a Green Party that seems more obsessed with Gaza and Trans issues than recycling !"
Exactly!!! The downfall of western politics has been liberalism and socialist ideologies |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media. "
Lol. 20% of purchase will not even pay a quarter of it. We already have tax on sales btw. |
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"The king needs to take take over full control again
Then abdicate for William so he can be long serving. Can’t be worse than the idiots we have to pick from currently "
The King and Prince William know nothing about politics. |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system."
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper. |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper."
Oh right.
Think I'll stick with what's in place and keep doing my job until retirement.
Sounds like a plan to me.
|
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper."
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing? |
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By *otMe66Man 14 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?"
Eye watering isn't it |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?
Eye watering isn't it"
You need to check your figures. How can a nation of 69 million people educating 12 million students cost £146 billion? That puts state education at more than double the cost of going to Eton. |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?
Eye watering isn't it
You need to check your figures. How can a nation of 69 million people educating 12 million students cost £146 billion? That puts state education at more than double the cost of going to Eton."
The numbers come from official UK budget |
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"..and welfare and pensions should be covered by NI contributions which are not a tax even though many consider them to be.."
National Insurance is a tax.
Here's a link to the House of Commons introduction to National Insurance, which starts with the words "National Insurance contributions (NICs) are a direct tax": https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn04517/ |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?
Eye watering isn't it
You need to check your figures. How can a nation of 69 million people educating 12 million students cost £146 billion? That puts state education at more than double the cost of going to Eton.
The numbers come from official UK budget "
Those figures come out at £121,000 per full time student in the country. That includes school and uni, private or state. Eton is £61,000pa. |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?
Eye watering isn't it
You need to check your figures. How can a nation of 69 million people educating 12 million students cost £146 billion? That puts state education at more than double the cost of going to Eton.
The numbers come from official UK budget
Those figures come out at £121,000 per full time student in the country. That includes school and uni, private or state. Eton is £61,000pa."
Welcome to the government Ponzi scheme. |
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By *otMe66Man 13 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?
Eye watering isn't it
You need to check your figures. How can a nation of 69 million people educating 12 million students cost £146 billion? That puts state education at more than double the cost of going to Eton.
The numbers come from official UK budget
Those figures come out at £121,000 per full time student in the country. That includes school and uni, private or state. Eton is £61,000pa."
The cost here is not per student head, it is the budget of the sector. If it was per head and we assume 12 million students to be correct the cost would be £12166, looks like you added an extra 0 |
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"I also think we expect politicians to solve all our woes.
Maybe the very best they could do is create a level playing field and its up to us, as individuals, to either succeed or fail on that playing field.
For me, nothing that I've achieved in life has come from the work of any political party.
Maybe, we expect too much from politics and the broken bit is actually us.
I wish they would be responsible for our basic infrastructure much like local councils and beyond that stop getting involved with our lives. As far as taxation goes, without fiat currency, 20% purchase tax should be more than enough to pay for everything within a governments remit.
What do you think about NHS, Unemployment benefits, asylum and defense?
20% of purchases should pay that, albeit more modestly. Especially defence spending which is rife with price gouging and sales contracts guaranteed by government. The guarantees mean if you make a weapons contract with a despot knowing government will block the sale, the tax payer will pay the whole bill. It’s crazy and never covered by the media.
Thought we already had a 20% purchase tax called VAT.
Are you saying that everything we purchase should have a 40% tax.
Bit like the Monaco system.
VAT at 20% should be enough tax burden to keep the nation afloat if we didn’t continue with fiat economics. In fiat economies the role of tax is to pay interest and remove currency from the system to prevent hyperinflation. A return to money over currency would mean any state that can produce more than it consumes will prosper.
UK gets £171B from VAT. The expense for pensions and welfare is £379B, healthcare cost is £277B and education cost is £146B. Which of these numbers are going to change with what you are proposing?
Eye watering isn't it
You need to check your figures. How can a nation of 69 million people educating 12 million students cost £146 billion? That puts state education at more than double the cost of going to Eton.
The numbers come from official UK budget
Those figures come out at £121,000 per full time student in the country. That includes school and uni, private or state. Eton is £61,000pa.
The cost here is not per student head, it is the budget of the sector. If it was per head and we assume 12 million students to be correct the cost would be £12166, looks like you added an extra 0"
Doh! Cheers. |
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The internet and social media has made it easier to connect with them.
There are pros and cons, mainly cons I’d say, to that.
If I wanted to, I could message all kinds of horrible things to pretty much anyone in politics. I don’t because I’m not that kind of person, even though my opinion of most politicians is pretty low.
Politicians don’t help matters by lapping up all the ‘likes’ they get and leaving themselves open to all the negativity.
They should all come off X and go back to having a real post bag. |
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European countries are restarting the hunt for domestic oil and gas in a shift away from an energy strategy that in recent years prioritised renewable investment, according to the head of one of the continent’s largest independent gas producers.
Mathios Rigas, chief executive of Energean, said Greece, Italy and Cyprus — all countries where the London-listed, Mediterranean-focused gas producer is active — had shown signs of shifting their approach since Russia’s 2022 full-blown invasion of Ukraine upended European energy markets.
“If you look at Greece five years ago or seven years ago, [it] was only talking about green investments: shutting down lignite-fired power plants, promoting only green investments,” he told the FT.
“Now, one of the top items on the agenda is the well we will drill with Exxon . . . in western Greece. That’s a big shift,” he said, adding: “Potentially — using the words very carefully because we still have to drill the wells — we have the ability to create a situation where Greece becomes energy independent.”
In Italy, where a law preventing new exploration has been overturned in the courts, Rigas said Energean was in talks over new exploration licences, including in an area adjacent to one of its Greek prospects.
“I’m not saying we are there, but we are at least in active discussions about reopening exploration,” he said. “The Italian government is actively looking at allowing new activities to happen, when a few years ago it wasn’t even . . . on the agenda.”
While European countries continue to invest significantly in renewables, they have slowed down their transition to clean energy in the past year, particularly in areas where alternative fuels such as hydrogen remain relatively expensive. As a result, oil companies now expect a longer lifespan for fossil fuels and are rushing to secure more reserves.
|
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"European countries are restarting the hunt for domestic oil and gas in a shift away from an energy strategy that in recent years prioritised renewable investment, according to the head of one of the continent’s largest independent gas producers.
Mathios Rigas, chief executive of Energean, said Greece, Italy and Cyprus — all countries where the London-listed, Mediterranean-focused gas producer is active — had shown signs of shifting their approach since Russia’s 2022 full-blown invasion of Ukraine upended European energy markets.
“If you look at Greece five years ago or seven years ago, [it] was only talking about green investments: shutting down lignite-fired power plants, promoting only green investments,” he told the FT.
“Now, one of the top items on the agenda is the well we will drill with Exxon . . . in western Greece. That’s a big shift,” he said, adding: “Potentially — using the words very carefully because we still have to drill the wells — we have the ability to create a situation where Greece becomes energy independent.”
In Italy, where a law preventing new exploration has been overturned in the courts, Rigas said Energean was in talks over new exploration licences, including in an area adjacent to one of its Greek prospects.
“I’m not saying we are there, but we are at least in active discussions about reopening exploration,” he said. “The Italian government is actively looking at allowing new activities to happen, when a few years ago it wasn’t even . . . on the agenda.”
While European countries continue to invest significantly in renewables, they have slowed down their transition to clean energy in the past year, particularly in areas where alternative fuels such as hydrogen remain relatively expensive. As a result, oil companies now expect a longer lifespan for fossil fuels and are rushing to secure more reserves.
"
You didn't acknowledge the source.. |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?"
You don't really know how the Civil Service works do you? |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?
You don't really know how the Civil Service works do you?"
So which bit of my analysis is incorrect, and why?
Taking a results based approach and looking from the outside in the analysis is 100% correct. |
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By (user no longer on site) 12 weeks ago
|
Minister of Justice orders mass deletion of court records, often used by journalists to investigate judicial failures.
Perfectly normal behaviour in a democracy... |
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"Minister of Justice orders mass deletion of court records, often used by journalists to investigate judicial failures.
Perfectly normal behaviour in a democracy..."
The system wasn't GDOR compliant but never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory |
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"Minister of Justice orders mass deletion of court records, often used by journalists to investigate judicial failures.
Perfectly normal behaviour in a democracy...
The system wasn't GDOR compliant but never let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy theory "
GDPR is an awful law, and is used as an excuse to cover up all sorts of failures. It has also been the cause of many avoidable incidents where information on violent criminals (including children transferred from school to school) hasn’t been shared. |
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I think a lot of countries are having the same issues.
- A media that isn't trusted.
- Social media that is increasing hate/division, and politicians/grifters exploiting this.
- Housing increasingly unaffordable, rents always increasing.
- Politicians/major parties not creative/inspiring enough to force genuine change.
- In the UK specifically, there's an obsession with immigration to the point nothing else gets done/talked about |
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I'm genuinely intrigued, but in a country that has been run by a right wing government for 14 of the last 16 years, how is 'woke' something that has ruined British politics?
Similarly, you could argue that Labour haven't been great opposition, or the latest incarnation of the party isn't anything inspiring, but they've been in power less than 2 years... |
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By *andM4FunCouple 12 weeks ago
Cambridgeshire |
"I'm genuinely intrigued, but in a country that has been run by a right wing government for 14 of the last 16 years, how is 'woke' something that has ruined British politics?
Similarly, you could argue that Labour haven't been great opposition, or the latest incarnation of the party isn't anything inspiring, but they've been in power less than 2 years..."
Right wing???? Hahahaha
Anyways the country and economy was booming under the Tories until Covid hit (or forced upon us). Labour then used this (in cahoots with the media) to force a GE and impose their socialist and liberal agendas that has ruined British politics ….. just look at the corruption, hypocrisy, and shambles created in just 18 months - by far the worst government this country has ever had!! |
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"I'm genuinely intrigued, but in a country that has been run by a right wing government for 14 of the last 16 years, how is 'woke' something that has ruined British politics?
Similarly, you could argue that Labour haven't been great opposition, or the latest incarnation of the party isn't anything inspiring, but they've been in power less than 2 years...
Right wing???? Hahahaha
Anyways the country and economy was booming under the Tories until Covid hit (or forced upon us). Labour then used this (in cahoots with the media) to force a GE and impose their socialist and liberal agendas that has ruined British politics ….. just look at the corruption, hypocrisy, and shambles created in just 18 months - by far the worst government this country has ever had!! "
Sorry what?
General elections are held every 5 years... So after the 2019 one, an election was held in 2024...
What's this socialist agenda that Labour have forced upon us? Could you tell us like 1 or 2 things that they've done since being in power? |
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By *andM4FunCouple 12 weeks ago
Cambridgeshire |
"I'm genuinely intrigued, but in a country that has been run by a right wing government for 14 of the last 16 years, how is 'woke' something that has ruined British politics?
Similarly, you could argue that Labour haven't been great opposition, or the latest incarnation of the party isn't anything inspiring, but they've been in power less than 2 years...
Right wing???? Hahahaha
Anyways the country and economy was booming under the Tories until Covid hit (or forced upon us). Labour then used this (in cahoots with the media) to force a GE and impose their socialist and liberal agendas that has ruined British politics ….. just look at the corruption, hypocrisy, and shambles created in just 18 months - by far the worst government this country has ever had!!
Sorry what?
General elections are held every 5 years... So after the 2019 one, an election was held in 2024...
What's this socialist agenda that Labour have forced upon us? Could you tell us like 1 or 2 things that they've done since being in power?"
What are you on about?????? Typical liberal from Bristol  |
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You said labour forced an election - I'm saying they didn't force anything. In the UK we have elections every 5 years.
You also claimed in just under 2 years, Labour have broken everything by introducing a socialist agenda, I was just asking for an example or two of measures brought in that demonstrate what this socialist agenda is |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?
You don't really know how the Civil Service works do you?
So which bit of my analysis is incorrect, and why?
Taking a results based approach and looking from the outside in the analysis is 100% correct."
The Civil Service enact Ministers policies, it doesn't matter whether they agree with them or not. They can and do point out when policies will have unintended consequences but ministers decide if they still want to go ahead. Your idea that the Civil Service is filled with woke left wing nutters is just wrong. |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?
You don't really know how the Civil Service works do you?
So which bit of my analysis is incorrect, and why?
Taking a results based approach and looking from the outside in the analysis is 100% correct.
The Civil Service enact Ministers policies, it doesn't matter whether they agree with them or not. They can and do point out when policies will have unintended consequences but ministers decide if they still want to go ahead. Your idea that the Civil Service is filled with woke left wing nutters is just wrong."
What you have described in the theory of what should happen. In reality the civil service is a bueracracy and, like all bureaucracies, it dances to the tune of its own inertia.
The civil service isn’t “malicious” or “woke” like many on here would have us believe but it also isn’t a benevolent tool that simply does what it is told.
The civil service has its own way of doing things and a world view shaped by that way of doing things. The people who do well in the civil service tend, like in all large organisations, to be those who reflect the way things are done.
The inertia of the civil service has huge power and influence over the country simply by the fact that the political masters change too often for them to have any impact. In an organisation that doesn’t like conflict or risk then ideas can take hold and linger for decades. |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?
You don't really know how the Civil Service works do you?
So which bit of my analysis is incorrect, and why?
Taking a results based approach and looking from the outside in the analysis is 100% correct.
The Civil Service enact Ministers policies, it doesn't matter whether they agree with them or not. They can and do point out when policies will have unintended consequences but ministers decide if they still want to go ahead. Your idea that the Civil Service is filled with woke left wing nutters is just wrong.
What you have described in the theory of what should happen. In reality the civil service is a bueracracy and, like all bureaucracies, it dances to the tune of its own inertia.
The civil service isn’t “malicious” or “woke” like many on here would have us believe but it also isn’t a benevolent tool that simply does what it is told.
The civil service has its own way of doing things and a world view shaped by that way of doing things. The people who do well in the civil service tend, like in all large organisations, to be those who reflect the way things are done.
The inertia of the civil service has huge power and influence over the country simply by the fact that the political masters change too often for them to have any impact. In an organisation that doesn’t like conflict or risk then ideas can take hold and linger for decades."
Id certainly agree with you that there is inertia in the system, but that's a long way from what the original poster was claiming that the Civil Service is filled with woke left wing idealogues. |
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"The quality of our politicians is pretty dire, across all parties. Whichever useless candidate wins, we get the same government run by the unelected faceless left wing wokie politically correct Civil Service blob, which is more interested in formenting dissent through identity politics than actually doing anything to keep the country running.
Thoughts?
You don't really know how the Civil Service works do you?
So which bit of my analysis is incorrect, and why?
Taking a results based approach and looking from the outside in the analysis is 100% correct.
The Civil Service enact Ministers policies, it doesn't matter whether they agree with them or not. They can and do point out when policies will have unintended consequences but ministers decide if they still want to go ahead. Your idea that the Civil Service is filled with woke left wing nutters is just wrong.
What you have described in the theory of what should happen. In reality the civil service is a bueracracy and, like all bureaucracies, it dances to the tune of its own inertia.
The civil service isn’t “malicious” or “woke” like many on here would have us believe but it also isn’t a benevolent tool that simply does what it is told.
The civil service has its own way of doing things and a world view shaped by that way of doing things. The people who do well in the civil service tend, like in all large organisations, to be those who reflect the way things are done.
The inertia of the civil service has huge power and influence over the country simply by the fact that the political masters change too often for them to have any impact. In an organisation that doesn’t like conflict or risk then ideas can take hold and linger for decades.
Id certainly agree with you that there is inertia in the system, but that's a long way from what the original poster was claiming that the Civil Service is filled with woke left wing idealogues."
But that’s exactly the point I am making. The civil service isn’t “woke” (or anything else). It doesn’t actually have any goal other than to keep doing what it currently does. It is basically like a mindless slug whose sole aim is to reproduce.
The initial analysis is 100% correct to identify the civil service as the thing that is rotten in government but the answer isn’t then to spin off and accuse it of all sorts of political nefariousness because that is a red herring. The civil service loves this kind of argument because they know it is a total distraction.
Almost every public inquiry for decades has placed institutional failings and an inability to learn lessons at their heart. That is completely about the civil service and yet nothing ever changes. It never will. This is the heart of why politics is broken because the delivery machine needs _fundamental_ reform. |
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