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French Political Chaos 🇨🇵
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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More trouble brewing in France which is a country across the English Channel.
A young Catholic man Quentin Deranque was brutally attacked and killed by far left fanatics in Lyon while supporting anti abortion campaigners.
As a result the far left party LFI is losing support which will make it much harder to keep the Front National, which is Frances most popular party, out of power with Centre left alliances.
Will the FN finally take power, or will far left violence make the country even more ungovernable?
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"BBC report here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv61zv534eo"
A quote from the article: Deranque was killed on 12 February after a small university protest by far-right feminists, who he was supposed to be protecting.
"Far-right feminists" - Never thought I would hear this phrase in my life time  |
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"BBC report here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv61zv534eo
A quote from the article: Deranque was killed on 12 February after a small university protest by far-right feminists, who he was supposed to be protecting.
"Far-right feminists" - Never thought I would hear this phrase in my life time "
This is being widely repeated, presumably to make the victim look worse and his killers more sympathetic. Pretty grim for the BBC to use it.  |
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Â
"BBC report here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv61zv534eo
A quote from the article: Deranque was killed on 12 February after a small university protest by far-right feminists, who he was supposed to be protecting.
"Far-right feminists" - Never thought I would hear this phrase in my life time
This is being widely repeated, presumably to make the victim look worse and his killers more sympathetic. Pretty grim for the BBC to use it. "
Not seen how tge French media are desiring them but if that's how they actually are, feminists whose politics is of the far right then how else should they be described?
If the Beeb changed it to whatever for whatever 'reasons' as with any group they would be castigated ..
After what they got badly wrong with Trump I'm pretty sure they've clamped down on any such thing as misrepresentation for political bias..
For the record its a deplorable sickening crime whenever it happens.. |
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"BBC report here
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv61zv534eo
A quote from the article: Deranque was killed on 12 February after a small university protest by far-right feminists, who he was supposed to be protecting.
"Far-right feminists" - Never thought I would hear this phrase in my life time
This is being widely repeated, presumably to make the victim look worse and his killers more sympathetic. Pretty grim for the BBC to use it.
Not seen how tge French media are desiring them but if that's how they actually are, feminists whose politics is of the far right then how else should they be described?
If the Beeb changed it to whatever for whatever 'reasons' as with any group they would be castigated ..
After what they got badly wrong with Trump I'm pretty sure they've clamped down on any such thing as misrepresentation for political bias..
For the record its a deplorable sickening crime whenever it happens.."
The group is called Nemesis and campaigns on the belief that there is a link between violence against women and high levels of immigration. Given that multiple data sources across Europe show this belief is well founded it seems like a fairly mainstream opinion.🤷
I've also read that in this case they were protesting against an appearance by a female French/Palestinian activist who described the Oct 7th attacks as justified and has appeared on pro Hamas platforms. Again, this doesn't seem like a very extreme position to take. |
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US. "
There is of course a far right movement in Europe which we should always be vigilant about, but the parallel growth of far left activism and violence is hugely under reported, or else reported in neutral terms such as much of the coverage of Palestine Action. |
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By (user no longer on site)Â 11 weeks ago
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I don’t follow French politics but any group that kills in the name of an ideology or a religion, to me proves they don’t have a valid argument to defend.
Throughout history both extreme left and right wing dictators have killed to try to protect themselves.
Over here, for the moment at least, it’s seems to be only the police who try to kill protesters. I can’t think of any other way to describe hitting someone repeatedly on the head with a metal baton, other than attempted murder. |
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"The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US. "
Fascism, often excused or deflected from is not acceptable in any society and neither is its equivalent on the opposite side..
Its an editable response to what one side sees as a danger and then they go to the extremes to counter..
Neither of them are right and they seem to thrive upon the others hatred abd some in society will always seek that whatever the 'cause'.. |
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 I'll take a dangerous anti-fascist to a moderate actual fascist any day of the week thanks
"The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US. "
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"I'll take a dangerous anti-fascist to a moderate actual fascist any day of the week thanks
The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US. "
Something something horseshoe theory |
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"I'll take a dangerous anti-fascist to a moderate actual fascist any day of the week thanks
The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US. "
What is your view of Quentin Deranque being beaten to death by dangerous anti fascists ? |
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By (user no longer on site)Â 11 weeks ago
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"Fascism, often excused or deflected from is not acceptable in any society and neither is its equivalent on the."
Just curious as to what you would want to happen if a fascist party were to democratically win power in an election? You say that wouldn’t be acceptable so what happens? Troops on the streets shooting people?
Because that mentality goes both ways. What if the ultra communism of the greens won an election? Do we stand by and watch the destruction of the fabric of our society and country by its government. Or do we arm ourselves and start shooting?
Assuming that most people are “anti fascist” when it comes to the Adolf Hitler type of fascism, that type of fascist government would never exist here. But fascist and far right are terms being bandied around by all sorts of people to describe policies and people that are defiantly not fascists in my opinion.
The politics of the 21st century seems to be all about convincing the masses what other politicians think, rather than putting forward policies of their own. |
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"I'll take a dangerous anti-fascist to a moderate actual fascist any day of the week thanks
The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US. "
Trouble is there is a lot more dangerous "anti fascists" then there are actual fascists 🤣 |
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By (user no longer on site)Â 11 weeks ago
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"I'll take a dangerous anti-fascist to a moderate actual fascist any day of the week thanks
The ultra anti fascists are a dangerous group, parading their violence openly under their black bloc guises. They have been steadily getting more and more aggressive in Europe and the US.
Trouble is there is a lot more dangerous "anti fascists" then there are actual fascists 🤣"
We used to have football hooliganism, not we have politics hooliganism |
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By *otMe66Man 11 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
We should be clear in our descriptions or it becomes fuel to the already lit bonfire.
I would guess the country as a whole are opposed to fascism as an extreme ideology, however challenging border controls is not fascist, or is being patriotic.
The lines become blurred as the extremes on the right and left use semantics to justify their own agendas, few in number but highly visible through their actions and coverage given.
I would argue in the past that people who stretch definitions to absurd lengths to prove a point are doing so purposefully, I have since moved on from that view and consider them as believers of the absurd. |
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By (user no longer on site)Â 11 weeks ago
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A psychologist would say if you tell someone enough times that they are a failure, they believe it. The left are using this tactic to try and convince the undecided that Reform and Restore and fascist and racist.
How far right do you have to go to be far right? Starmer and the boob whisperer would have you believe anyone to the right of Diane Abbott is a fascist, yet it’s the labour government that wants to take away your freedoms by cancelling elections, jury trials and creating a special police task force to scour the internet for anyone disagreeing with them.
And there’s people who support this. Happily walking over the edge of the cliff and trying to convince others to do the same. |
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"Fascism, often excused or deflected from is not acceptable in any society and neither is its equivalent on the.
Just curious as to what you would want to happen if a fascist party were to democratically win power in an election? You say that wouldn’t be acceptable so what happens? Troops on the streets shooting people?
Because that mentality goes both ways. What if the ultra communism of the greens won an election? Do we stand by and watch the destruction of the fabric of our society and country by its government. Or do we arm ourselves and start shooting?
Assuming that most people are “anti fascist” when it comes to the Adolf Hitler type of fascism, that type of fascist government would never exist here. But fascist and far right are terms being bandied around by all sorts of people to describe policies and people that are defiantly not fascists in my opinion.
The politics of the 21st century seems to be all about convincing the masses what other politicians think, rather than putting forward policies of their own. "
It's a moot question as you've said as I also believe that it won't happen here..
Its one of those does one oppose it and work within the system to change it by democratic means or leave as one knows it will never happen..
Funny enough when fascists or other regimes/dictators have taken power its usually by oppression and violence to stifle and often dispose of the opposition..
Then when in power 'democratically' pass laws to further subdue both the population and other political parties.
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By *deepdiveMan 11 weeks ago
Canterbury and France (26) |
France Political Chaos !
Surely a rather extreme and exaggerated title for what has actually happened!
I can think of plenty of countries where the word chaos could be used to describe the political situation but the word chaos does not apply to French politics.
What has happened is an absolute tragedy and is due to extremists on both sides of the political spectrum who went to cause trouble.
Meanwhile, France and the political system still appear to manage to produce electricity, run trains, build roads and manage taxes.
I was actually in Lyon yesterday and did not see any demonstrations, any inrewt or any trouble.
I am there again on Wednesday and again, so not expect any trouble.
The French political system is certainly having it's moments and with the presidential election coming up next year, parties are vying for the top job but this is what France does.
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"France Political Chaos !
Surely a rather extreme and exaggerated title for what has actually happened!
I can think of plenty of countries where the word chaos could be used to describe the political situation but the word chaos does not apply to French politics.
What has happened is an absolute tragedy and is due to extremists on both sides of the political spectrum who went to cause trouble.
Meanwhile, France and the political system still appear to manage to produce electricity, run trains, build roads and manage taxes.
I was actually in Lyon yesterday and did not see any demonstrations, any inrewt or any trouble.
I am there again on Wednesday and again, so not expect any trouble.
The French political system is certainly having it's moments and with the presidential election coming up next year, parties are vying for the top job but this is what France does.
"
Good to hear, Lyon is a great city. |
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"People get murdered all the time. I never see the same faux outrage from the far right when it's a young black boy killed."
'People get murdered all the time'
I don't think that reply needs any further comment. |
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  I won't be losing sleep tonight over it to be honest with you. The anti-abortion crowd aren't the nicest people you'd come across either.
"
What is your view of Quentin Deranque being beaten to death by dangerous anti fascists ?"
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 11 weeks ago
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"I won't be losing sleep tonight over it to be honest with you. The anti-abortion crowd aren't the nicest people you'd come across either.
What is your view of Quentin Deranque being beaten to death by dangerous anti fascists ?"
That's an honest opinion, thanks for responding. |
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"People get murdered all the time. I never see the same faux outrage from the far right when it's a young black boy killed."
I hope "people get murdered all the time" is your response even when a left winger gets killed for political reasons. Or does whataboutism work only one way? |
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Â
"
What has happened is an absolute tragedy and is due to extremists on both sides of the political spectrum who went to cause trouble.
"
Sorry how exactly do you blame "both sides" on this brutal murder? A group of thugs murdered someone for political reasons. The blame fully lies with the murderers. |
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By *deepdiveMan 11 weeks ago
Canterbury and France (26) |
"
What has happened is an absolute tragedy and is due to extremists on both sides of the political spectrum who went to cause trouble.
Sorry how exactly do you blame "both sides" on this brutal murder? A group of thugs murdered someone for political reasons. The blame fully lies with the murderers."
I know people who actually went to Lyon to fight.
They are not interested in politics, they are hooligans.
I have met others before (in Sarajevo) who went to football matches simply to fight opposing supporters.
You can spin this as much as you like (the politicians do) but this is a tragic event where a young man has been killed.
You mention that this is for political reasons - perhaps you can expand on this given your obvious inside track on events. |
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Â
"
What has happened is an absolute tragedy and is due to extremists on both sides of the political spectrum who went to cause trouble.
Sorry how exactly do you blame "both sides" on this brutal murder? A group of thugs murdered someone for political reasons. The blame fully lies with the murderers.
I know people who actually went to Lyon to fight.
They are not interested in politics, they are hooligans.
"
That's a ridiculous gaslighting attempt.
The victim was there to provide security to a political rally. Is it true or not? So how exactly are you arguing that they are not interested in politics? |
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By (user no longer on site)Â OPÂ Â Â Â 10 weeks ago
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"
What has happened is an absolute tragedy and is due to extremists on both sides of the political spectrum who went to cause trouble.
Sorry how exactly do you blame "both sides" on this brutal murder? A group of thugs murdered someone for political reasons. The blame fully lies with the murderers.
I know people who actually went to Lyon to fight.
They are not interested in politics, they are hooligans.
That's a ridiculous gaslighting attempt.
The victim was there to provide security to a political rally. Is it true or not? So how exactly are you arguing that they are not interested in politics? "
I'm not sure what point the other poster is making but the motives for Quentin Deranque's murder seems absolutely clear. |
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"What's the motive for making a death into yet another culture war issue?"
That seems more to be the vogue with various issues for the left and for the right depending on whether it suits a narrative. |
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"What's the motive for making a death into yet another culture war issue?
That seems more to be the vogue with various issues for the left and for the right depending on whether it suits a narrative. "
Agreed. But for some people, everything seems to be an ideological battlefield. |
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By (user no longer on site)Â 10 weeks ago
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"People get murdered all the time. I never see the same faux outrage from the far right when it's a young black boy killed."
A black male, George Floyd, “died of a drug overdose he caused himself trying to avoid arrest for yet more drug related offences”. His sisters words, not mine, I wasn’t there and neither were you. The cop who definitely should not have been kneeling on his neck, may well have been a contributing factor, I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But that cops fate was decided by the media. Just like the cop at Manchester airport, until the whole cctv footage was made available showing the perps kicking a female cop.
But even if George Floyd’s death played out exactly how the left wing media said it did and the cop killed him….
There was riots where people were killed, tens of millions of dollars in damage, and the BLM movement supported them. Sportspeople still take the knee now. The area where he was arrested has declared itself independent of the USA and has signs up says no police allowed.
Name me one incident where a single white middle aged man has been killed by a black male where there were riots in the streets, and those riots were described as a justified response on BBC news? Where land has been declared independent. It doesn’t exist.
Your implied claim that a white death is taken more seriously than a black persons death is racist and totally unfounded. |
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