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Does Britain need a new flag ? š¬š§
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 9 weeks ago
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"It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world? "
A nice bit of gammon on a plain, dull background  |
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Ā Ā |
By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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"It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world?
A nice bit of gammon on a plain, dull background "
That is out straight away as its clearly islamaphobic. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 9 weeks ago
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The government hates Britain, they hate British people so it stands to reason they would hate the flag as well.
I hope they will all be arrested for treason when the next government takes over. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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"A small boat with an hand reaching out full of taxpayer cash to assist them ashore.  "
Goes with our new National Anthem, 'Hands, Touching Hands, Reaching Out..' š¤£ |
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By *G LanaTV/TSĀ 9 weeks ago
Gosport |
If this even proves to be true, I will point out that it was those using it as a hate symbol with the Raise the Colours campaign (we all knew the message they intended to send) and the long history of abuse by the National Front, British Nationalist Party, English Defence League, Britain First, Patriotic Alternative and no doubt all sorts of smaller splinter groups looking to promote division and intolerance in our country. |
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Ā If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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"If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
"
What about us indecent folk ? š¤ |
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"If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
What about us indecent folk ? š¤"
Well you perverts can have your own flag maybe a glory hole or an upside-down Saville |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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"If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
What about us indecent folk ? š¤
Well you perverts can have your own flag maybe a glory hole or an upside-down Saville "
A Union Jack with a hole in the middle for special occasions. š¤£š¤£ |
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By *ty31ManĀ 9 weeks ago
NW London |
"If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
What about us indecent folk ? š¤
Well you perverts can have your own flag maybe a glory hole or an upside-down Saville
A Union Jack with a hole in the middle for special occasions. š¤£š¤£"
The way things are going currently a pair of butt cheeks around said hole |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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"If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
What about us indecent folk ? š¤
Well you perverts can have your own flag maybe a glory hole or an upside-down Saville
A Union Jack with a hole in the middle for special occasions. š¤£š¤£
The way things are going currently a pair of butt cheeks around said hole "
š š¤£ |
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By *erces LetiferManĀ 9 weeks ago
Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters |
A bit of fun flag triviaā¦ Union Jack refers to the flag when flown from the ājackstaffā of a ship/naval vessel. Under normal contexts/flown on land, itās just called the Union Flag š¬š§ |
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Ā I prefer what we have now but if it is to change then it should show the white cliffs if Dover with a dingy heading towards it, full of illegal immigrants busy ditching their ID overboard. Maybe a slogan saying this way to get everything free and then Ā£40k to return home. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 9 weeks ago
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"If this even proves to be true, I will point out that it was those using it as a hate symbol with the Raise the Colours campaign (we all knew the message they intended to send) and the long history of abuse by the National Front, British Nationalist Party, English Defence League, Britain First, Patriotic Alternative and no doubt all sorts of smaller splinter groups looking to promote division and intolerance in our country."
Who has used it as a hate symbol? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 9 weeks ago
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"Perhaps if all local/national state buildings would fly it, as in France and the USA, any negative connotation would be lost - it would simply represent the country."
I agree. In my experience Britain and especially England have one of the lowest public uses of their national flags.
I also think a national flag can represent all parts of a country, good and bad, positive and negative. |
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By *ty31ManĀ 9 weeks ago
NW London |
"A bit of fun flag triviaā¦ Union Jack refers to the flag when flown from the ājackstaffā of a ship/naval vessel. Under normal contexts/flown on land, itās just called the Union Flag š¬š§ "
And it has a right way up to be flown- if it's upside down it's a sign of extreme distress |
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Ā Personally, ditch it.
The UK is a political arrangement, not a shared nation.
Constitutional scholars describe the UK ā a āunion stateā rather than a nation-state. Wales isnāt represented, because when the first union flag was designed Wales was already legally part of England.
It's a big honking mess and irrelevant in this modern age.
The UK should be treated as a political union of nations, not a single nation-state.
Ditch the flag entirely. Use the nation's flags if you must for other purposes. |
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Ā Ā
"Personally, ditch it.
The UK is a political arrangement, not a shared nation.
Constitutional scholars describe the UK ā a āunion stateā rather than a nation-state. Wales isnāt represented, because when the first union flag was designed Wales was already legally part of England.
It's a big honking mess and irrelevant in this modern age.
The UK should be treated as a political union of nations, not a single nation-state.
Ditch the flag entirely. Use the nation's flags if you must for other purposes."
All this applies for the EU flag too. Maybe that should also be ditched? |
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"If this even proves to be true, I will point out that it was those using it as a hate symbol with the Raise the Colours campaign (we all knew the message they intended to send) and the long history of abuse by the National Front, British Nationalist Party, English Defence League, Britain First, Patriotic Alternative and no doubt all sorts of smaller splinter groups looking to promote division and intolerance in our country.
Who has used it as a hate symbol? "
I love the technique of quoting the answer and then asking the question! |
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"A bit of fun flag triviaā¦ Union Jack refers to the flag when flown from the ājackstaffā of a ship/naval vessel. Under normal contexts/flown on land, itās just called the Union Flag š¬š§
And it has a right way up to be flown- if it's upside down it's a sign of extreme distress "
More often as an example of total ignorance! |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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Hate the UK flag, but any replacement would not be inclusive, be more pompous nonsense. The fact my country is not included in the colirs is a sense of pride right now. Go on holiday and smiles rise when you tell them where you are from. Uk/British does not create that. |
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Ā Absolutely it shouldn't be changed. I find it amazing/worrying that people have an issue with it. People will use what ever flag/symbol to push their views/beliefs etc. The union jack is the britsh flag and its identity |
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Ā My new passport says the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland yet all the way through school I don't remember being told anything about Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland, the language the culture or history, the fallouts and the things that are meant to make us a single union. There is clearly zero pride in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is why so few people want to waive that flag compared to other countries.
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"Perhaps if all local/national state buildings would fly it, as in France and the USA, any negative connotation would be lost - it would simply represent the country."
It's everywhere her in Wales for past 16yrs and even on food like bread or butter. The negative is the raming of the horrid thing down our throats. Can't go a day without seeing the tacky thing. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"If anything the decent honest folks should be trying their absolute best to reappropriate the flag from the right wing and make it a symbol of unity and respect and a symbol we can all be proud of.
What about us indecent folk ? š¤
Well you perverts can have your own flag maybe a glory hole or an upside-down Saville "
Savile was a Tory, friend to the English king. The right own the perversions |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"Personally, ditch it.
The UK is a political arrangement, not a shared nation.
Constitutional scholars describe the UK ā a āunion stateā rather than a nation-state. Wales isnāt represented, because when the first union flag was designed Wales was already legally part of England.
It's a big honking mess and irrelevant in this modern age.
The UK should be treated as a political union of nations, not a single nation-state.
Ditch the flag entirely. Use the nation's flags if you must for other purposes."
The UK is an unusual beast. 3 countries and Northern Ireland all lumped together with each of them having a different āarrangementā (far from an ideal word but couldnāt think of a better one) with the whole. But whatās interesting is England probably has the worst arrangement with the Union.
Everyone seems to think of it as the other 3 joining England, either voluntarily or forcibly. The Welsh and Scottish both have political parties based on the notion of independence. Irish Nationalists want a united Ireland. What about the English? If anyone in England expresses even the slightest pride in being English they are branded racist yet in Wales and Scotland, being patriotic about your heritage is considered a good thing,
If an English person were to express a desire for England to leave the Union, it would get laughed at. Scotland gets a vote to say if they want independence or to remain in the union, but did the rest of the Union get a say in them staying in the union?
And the most interesting part is the nationalist in both Wales and Scotland seem to want to leave this union, but join the EU. I get the āwe hate the English becauseā¦..ā argument, but the armies that invaded wales and Scotland were Norman armies, the French basically. And letās not forget two world wars. But youād rather get in bed with the French and Germans and have them telling you want to do? |
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By *erces LetiferManĀ 8 weeks ago
Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters |
"And the most interesting part is the nationalist in both Wales and Scotland seem to want to leave this union, but join the EU. I get the āwe hate the English becauseā¦..ā argument, but the armies that invaded wales and Scotland were Norman armies, the French basically. And letās not forget two world wars. But youād rather get in bed with the French and Germans and have them telling you want to do?"
Yeah I never understood the argument of āwe donāt wanna be governed all the way from Londonāā¦ but you want to be governed from Brussels instead? What?? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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I find flag shagging every bit as tiresome as the anti-British sentiments from sects of society.
Both are niche groups. Both would benefit from some perspective and understanding.
. |
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Ā Ā Why not adopt the Stars and Stripes? As America's 51st state it would be more than suitable. I'm sure our right wing parties would be all in favour after it is red, white and blue.
Failing that a glove puppet with Donald Trump's hand inserted to the elbow. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"I prefer what we have now but if it is to change then it should show the white cliffs if Dover with a dingy heading towards it, full of illegal immigrants busy ditching their ID overboard. Maybe a slogan saying this way to get everything free and then Ā£40k to return home."
Nobody is illegal without a court case. Bit of gammon would be better for you |
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Ā Ā
" If anyone in England expresses even the slightest pride in being English they are branded racist "
Obviously not true -
Union flags at FIFA World Cup not racist
St Georgeās flags during the UEFA European Championship not racist
Flags around St Georgeās Day, VE day or any cultural event not racist.
The same flags at an anti-immigration demo or National Front march aren't flown to express partriotism - they are meant to express hate.
Simple really |
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By *ydaz70ManĀ 8 weeks ago
Rotherham /newquay |
" If anyone in England expresses even the slightest pride in being English they are branded racist
Obviously not true -
Union flags at FIFA World Cup not racist
St Georgeās flags during the UEFA European Championship not racist
Flags around St Georgeās Day, VE day or any cultural event not racist.
The same flags at an anti-immigration demo or National Front march aren't flown to express partriotism - they are meant to express hate.
Simple really "
why can't it be patriotism I never understood it. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"No we donāt need a new flag we need to be more patriotic towards our country we are British and should be proud "
Why do we need to? Patriotism is a strange concept. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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" If anyone in England expresses even the slightest pride in being English they are branded racist
Obviously not true -
Union flags at FIFA World Cup not racist
St Georgeās flags during the UEFA European Championship not racist
Flags around St Georgeās Day, VE day or any cultural event not racist.
The same flags at an anti-immigration demo or National Front march aren't flown to express partriotism - they are meant to express hate.
Simple really "
So a flag at a football match is different to a flag in the high street? I put it to you that the difference is in your mind. |
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"No we donāt need a new flag we need to be more patriotic towards our country we are British and should be proud
Why do we need to? Patriotism is a strange concept. "
Expressing love and support for a country is stranger than doing the same with any other "bigger than self" entity or, for that matter, identifying as a gender (if we're talking specifically "identity")?
How do you define patriotism?
"love for or devotion to one's country"? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"No we donāt need a new flag we need to be more patriotic towards our country we are British and should be proud
Why do we need to? Patriotism is a strange concept.
Expressing love and support for a country is stranger than doing the same with any other "bigger than self" entity or, for that matter, identifying as a gender (if we're talking specifically "identity")?
How do you define patriotism?
"love for or devotion to one's country"?"
One can express love for anything - to do so for a nation purely by dint of being born within its borders is somewhat bizarre, is it not? |
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"
One can express love for anything - to do so for a nation purely by dint of being born within its borders is somewhat bizarre, is it not?"
Is it bizarre to express love for parents by dint of being born to them? Appreciation for the resources, security and education they provided you with? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"
One can express love for anything - to do so for a nation purely by dint of being born within its borders is somewhat bizarre, is it not?
Is it bizarre to express love for parents by dint of being born to them? Appreciation for the resources, security and education they provided you with?"
And in the event that your patents fail to live up to expectations, the most loving thing you can do is to help them by pointing out their failings and supporting their improvement rather than continuing to blindly follow them, and pointing out that other parents have better attitudes?
I think thatās a summation of the difference between actual patriotism and blind nationalism. |
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Ā We lost the GB sticker on cars , itās been replaced with UK , I canāt remember being the public being consulted it was the Eurocrats who decided for us , it seems if the union flag is to be replaced , we wonāt have a say on it , Iāll still be flying mine regardless what other folk say |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"We lost the GB sticker on cars , itās been replaced with UK , I canāt remember being the public being consulted it was the Eurocrats who decided for us , it seems if the union flag is to be replaced , we wonāt have a say on it , Iāll still be flying mine regardless what other folk say "
This change was requested by the UK govt, and began in 2021 - so the previous Tory govt.
It was changed In order to represent Northern Ireland, which Iām sure youāre aware, is not part of Great Britain, but is part of the U.K.
Who could possibly find fault with that?
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"Personally, ditch it.
The UK is a political arrangement, not a shared nation.
Constitutional scholars describe the UK ā a āunion stateā rather than a nation-state. Wales isnāt represented, because when the first union flag was designed Wales was already legally part of England.
It's a big honking mess and irrelevant in this modern age.
The UK should be treated as a political union of nations, not a single nation-state.
Ditch the flag entirely. Use the nation's flags if you must for other purposes.
The UK is an unusual beast. 3 countries and Northern Ireland all lumped together with each of them having a different āarrangementā (far from an ideal word but couldnāt think of a better one) with the whole. But whatās interesting is England probably has the worst arrangement with the Union.
Everyone seems to think of it as the other 3 joining England, either voluntarily or forcibly. The Welsh and Scottish both have political parties based on the notion of independence. Irish Nationalists want a united Ireland. What about the English? If anyone in England expresses even the slightest pride in being English they are branded racist yet in Wales and Scotland, being patriotic about your heritage is considered a good thing,
If an English person were to express a desire for England to leave the Union, it would get laughed at. Scotland gets a vote to say if they want independence or to remain in the union, but did the rest of the Union get a say in them staying in the union?
And the most interesting part is the nationalist in both Wales and Scotland seem to want to leave this union, but join the EU. I get the āwe hate the English becauseā¦..ā argument, but the armies that invaded wales and Scotland were Norman armies, the French basically. And letās not forget two world wars. But youād rather get in bed with the French and Germans and have them telling you want to do? "
Wow there you have it. English ignorance and exceptionalism in 4 paragraphs šš |
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"The government hates Britain, they hate British people so it stands to reason they would hate the flag as well.
I hope they will all be arrested for treason when the next government takes over. "
Hahaha
If you think the thick as shite people putting flags up on street lamps are doing it out of pride in their country then you are as bad as they are. |
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"Why not adopt the Stars and Stripes? As America's 51st state it would be more than suitable. I'm sure our right wing parties would be all in favour after it is red, white and blue.
Failing that a glove puppet with Donald Trump's hand inserted to the elbow. "
This. |
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Ā Ā
"It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world? "
What do you expect from a woke left wing government, which strangely enough finds nothing wrong us having Palestinian waves in our faces every where we go |
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"The government hates Britain, they hate British people so it stands to reason they would hate the flag as well.
I hope they will all be arrested for treason when the next government takes over.
Hahaha
If you think the thick as shite people putting flags up on street lamps are doing it out of pride in their country then you are as bad as they are."
How very disrespectful.., |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world?
What do you expect from a woke left wing government, which strangely enough finds nothing wrong us having Palestinian waves in our faces every where we go"
Which woke left wing Government is that, then? Because every other post is saying how authoritarian they are. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"The government hates Britain, they hate British people so it stands to reason they would hate the flag as well.
I hope they will all be arrested for treason when the next government takes over.
Hahaha
If you think the thick as shite people putting flags up on street lamps are doing it out of pride in their country then you are as bad as they are."
Given that the lamppost flags appeared around the same time as we saw calls from āthe right (generic) for civil war, marches on London etc - I believe the flag movement were hoping for backlash. Hoping āthe leftā (generic) would take them down, or get angry, set fire to them etc.
When everybody just shrugged and said āwhateverā it all kind of blew over. |
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Ā
"
One can express love for anything - to do so for a nation purely by dint of being born within its borders is somewhat bizarre, is it not?
Is it bizarre to express love for parents by dint of being born to them? Appreciation for the resources, security and education they provided you with?
And in the event that your patents fail to live up to expectations, the most loving thing you can do is to help them by pointing out their failings and supporting their improvement rather than continuing to blindly follow them, and pointing out that other parents have better attitudes?
I think thatās a summation of the difference between actual patriotism and blind nationalism."
Sure. |
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Ā Ā
"I prefer what we have now but if it is to change then it should show the white cliffs if Dover with a dingy heading towards it, full of illegal immigrants busy ditching their ID overboard. Maybe a slogan saying this way to get everything free and then Ā£40k to return home."
"Nobody is illegal without a court case. Bit of gammon would be better for you"
So crime doesn't exist until a court says so? If you stabbed someone to death and then hid, would you say that you weren't a murderer until you were found, tried, and convicted? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"Can I ask the people whoās have expressed a dislike for the flag, do you also dislike the country it stands for? "
Thatās a broad notion isnāt it?
This is a great country, with democracy, freedom of speech, broad equality amongst sexes and races (though with some work still to be done) which pinches well above its weight on the global scale.
And yet, thereās a lot wrong with it. A lot we should be concerned about, and a lot that needs changing.
Patriotism does not equal = blind, unending support and love. Quite the opposite - true patriots should be pointing out the areas where the nation fails and needs improvement |
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By *ony 2016ManĀ 8 weeks ago
lincs /Hudd & Derby cinema |
"No we donāt need a new flag we need to be more patriotic towards our country we are British and should be proud
š«”"
I always fly a flag at major sporting event times , would have been Union Jack at recent Winter Olympics and St George at the upcoming World Cup but didn't and won't because of the association with those currently flying our flag , , , |
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Ā
"
So a flag at a football match is different to a flag in the high street? I put it to you that the difference is in your mind. "
Where did I say that??
Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?
Next you will be telling us that the swastika is actually a symbol of peace. |
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"My new passport says the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland yet all the way through school I don't remember being told anything about Scotland Wales or Northern Ireland, the language the culture or history, the fallouts and the things that are meant to make us a single union. There is clearly zero pride in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which is why so few people want to waive that flag compared to other countries.
"
That's because Wales and Scotland, and for that matter, England are located in Great Britain which is the correct georaphical name for the island on which they are all located.
Clue: You might perhaps have noted that England isn't listed on its own either.
Northern Ireland is mentioned separately because it is located on the second largest of the British Isles, namely Ireland.
Got it? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"
So a flag at a football match is different to a flag in the high street? I put it to you that the difference is in your mind.
Where did I say that??
Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?
Next you will be telling us that the swastika is actually a symbol of peace."
The swastika is a 5,000+ year-old symbol representing good fortune and well-being in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, where it remains in common, auspicious use across Asia.
It was misappropriated in the 20th century by the Nazi Party, turning it into a notorious symbol of hate and white supremacy in the West
So with that in mindā¦. Would you like to reword your question?
Or are you still adamant that anyone waving a union flag or a St Georgeās cross is a far right Nazi? Unless they are at a sporting event or a royal wedding. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
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"
So a flag at a football match is different to a flag in the high street? I put it to you that the difference is in your mind.
Where did I say that??
Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?
Next you will be telling us that the swastika is actually a symbol of peace.
The swastika is a 5,000+ year-old symbol representing good fortune and well-being in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, where it remains in common, auspicious use across Asia.
It was misappropriated in the 20th century by the Nazi Party, turning it into a notorious symbol of hate and white supremacy in the West
So with that in mindā¦. Would you like to reword your question?
Or are you still adamant that anyone waving a union flag or a St Georgeās cross is a far right Nazi? Unless they are at a sporting event or a royal wedding. "
If people want to wave flags, thatās up to them. As long as they donāt claim it only represents them and their specific views, they should fill their boots.
Personally I think there are more important issues to cry over than waving or not waving a bit of cloth. |
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"Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?"
It's to express their nationalist views of course. But then everything used by the National Front is used for that purpose. Would you favour a ban on the use of the letters 'N' and 'F' because the National Front use them to promote their racist ideals? |
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Ā
"I prefer what we have now but if it is to change then it should show the white cliffs if Dover with a dingy heading towards it, full of illegal immigrants busy ditching their ID overboard. Maybe a slogan saying this way to get everything free and then Ā£40k to return home.
Nobody is illegal without a court case. Bit of gammon would be better for you"
If you arrive by illegal means you are classed as illegal. Even outlets like the BBC describe them as such. Oh if you must resort to insults I would have to be well done or burnt gammon given my colour |
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Ā On the British flag itself, outside of any political considerations...
It's an awesome flag. It's instantly recognisable and identifiable, tells a story/has some history and is quite an international brand in and of itself. It's simple enough for a child to draw, but complex enough to stand out uniquely. You couldn't say that last one about half of the European flags or many Middle Eastern flags. And many others are far too complex to draw, with tiny details. |
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"It's an awesome flag. It's instantly recognisable and identifiable ..."
It's the only flag in the world where you can change all the colours and it's still obvious what it is. The army have an all green version (or at least khaki), and the police have a black and white version, and both are instantly recognisable. |
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Ā
"
The swastika is a 5,000+ year-old symbol representing good fortune and well-being in Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism, where it remains in common, auspicious use across Asia.
It was misappropriated in the 20th century by the Nazi Party, turning it into a notorious symbol of hate and white supremacy in the West
So with that in mindā¦. Would you like to reword your question?
Or are you still adamant that anyone waving a union flag or a St Georgeās cross is a far right Nazi? Unless they are at a sporting event or a royal wedding. "
Who decides whether or not something has been "misappropriated"? If you're going to point to public opinion, then that rather cuts the legs out of your own argument. |
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"Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?
It's to express their nationalist views of course. But then everything used by the National Front is used for that purpose. Would you favour a ban on the use of the letters 'N' and 'F' because the National Front use them to promote their racist ideals?"
Who is advocating banning anything?? The point is that flags can carry meaning beyond patriotism and can easily be used as symbols of hate. The "it's just a flag" types would have a shit fit if ISIS flags were flown in the UK streets. Their outrage would correctly be on the basis of what that flag represents rather than what it actually says. |
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By *m3232ManĀ 8 weeks ago
maidenhead |
"The government hates Britain, they hate British people so it stands to reason they would hate the flag as well.
I hope they will all be arrested for treason when the next government takes over. "
Could not have said it better myself. |
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Ā
"Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?
It's to express their nationalist views of course. But then everything used by the National Front is used for that purpose. Would you favour a ban on the use of the letters 'N' and 'F' because the National Front use them to promote their racist ideals?
Who is advocating banning anything?? The point is that flags can carry meaning beyond patriotism and can easily be used as symbols of hate. The "it's just a flag" types would have a shit fit if ISIS flags were flown in the UK streets. Their outrage would correctly be on the basis of what that flag represents rather than what it actually says."
difference between flying a union flag and an isis flag in the jk is ond is the flag of the country the other represents s terror organisation that follows a death cult religion |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Do you think the National Front's use of the Union flag is intended to express patriotism and cream teas and spitfires?
Or is it intended to express race hatred?
It's to express their nationalist views of course. But then everything used by the National Front is used for that purpose. Would you favour a ban on the use of the letters 'N' and 'F' because the National Front use them to promote their racist ideals?
Who is advocating banning anything?? The point is that flags can carry meaning beyond patriotism and can easily be used as symbols of hate. The "it's just a flag" types would have a shit fit if ISIS flags were flown in the UK streets. Their outrage would correctly be on the basis of what that flag represents rather than what it actually says."
So youāre comparing someone who puts a union flag on a lamppost to an ISIS terrorist? And seemingly you think the Brit is the bad guy out of those two? |
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Ā What's with all the mock outrage and gaslighting?
They are clearly making the point that the exact same flag/imagery can illicit very different emotions when applied in different contexts - e.g depending on the intention behind it. It's nuanced, as you probably do know, but you are choosing to argue the point.
What it does highlight the level of division that we are experiencing - opposing views of what a flag should represent. Its all a big ol' distraction from what is actually going on. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
|
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
"
Letās remind one second.
Has anyone actually suggested changing our flag? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
Letās remind one second.
Has anyone actually suggested changing our flag? "
Pretty sure the OP put that idea out there for discussion. Iām happy to discuss theories as well as actions. If youāre not, perhaps not commenting on the thread would be your best course of action? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
Letās remind one second.
Has anyone actually suggested changing our flag?
Pretty sure the OP put that idea out there for discussion. Iām happy to discuss theories as well as actions. If youāre not, perhaps not commenting on the thread would be your best course of action? "
Indeed the OP mentioned the flag being seen as a hate symbol. Not sure thereās any evidence of anyone genuinly requesting it be changed though - yet you seem to think they exist. Wondered how common this thought was, is all. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
Letās remind one second.
Has anyone actually suggested changing our flag?
Pretty sure the OP put that idea out there for discussion. Iām happy to discuss theories as well as actions. If youāre not, perhaps not commenting on the thread would be your best course of action?
Indeed the OP mentioned the flag being seen as a hate symbol. Not sure thereās any evidence of anyone genuinly requesting it be changed though - yet you seem to think they exist. Wondered how common this thought was, is all."
Perhaps if you concentrate on putting your own point across and not on trying to tell other people what i think?
If anyone is interested in what I think they can just ask me. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
Letās remind one second.
Has anyone actually suggested changing our flag?
Pretty sure the OP put that idea out there for discussion. Iām happy to discuss theories as well as actions. If youāre not, perhaps not commenting on the thread would be your best course of action?
Indeed the OP mentioned the flag being seen as a hate symbol. Not sure thereās any evidence of anyone genuinly requesting it be changed though - yet you seem to think they exist. Wondered how common this thought was, is all.
Perhaps if you concentrate on putting your own point across and not on trying to tell other people what i think?
If anyone is interested in what I think they can just ask me. "
Well you made a direct statement about people wanting to change the flag:
āTo the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?ā
And I simply asked if anyone had actually suggested this move, as you appear to have claimed this stance as somehow genuine.
So I ask again, are you aware of anyone who actually wants to change our flag? |
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"It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world? "
Just a quick further thought on this. If there was a new design for the flag what would stop organisations like national front, BMP or even communist parties just using the new design as well as the original union flag? If they did, and therefore in the minds of some, it's considered as being hijacked by extreme groups then do we need yet another design? |
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By *erces LetiferManĀ 8 weeks ago
Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters |
"The point is that flags can carry meaning beyond patriotism and can easily be used as symbols of hate. The "it's just a flag" types would have a shit fit if ISIS flags were flown in the UK streets. Their outrage would correctly be on the basis of what that flag represents rather than what it actually says."
Exactly. This applies to the Union Flag just as much as it does any other national flag. I know what it represents, and it certainly isn't hate, despite the efforts of a few extremists. Can the same be said about ISIS? Clearly not. That's the difference. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"Ok, letās be reasonable for one moment, well I will be, letās see if those who might ordinarily disagree can also be reasonable for a moment, or choose to remain on their high horseā¦..
I think the crux of this comes down to the answer to one simple question. That question beingā¦
āis wanting toā¦.ā (And Iām gonna fill in the blank with some alternatives)ā¦.
Stop the boats
Smash the gangs
Limit migration
Stop illegal migration
Turn the boats around
Deport foreign criminals
Cut legal migration levels
Etcā¦. You all know what I mean so please donāt be a dickā¦
Are they racist thoughts? And please bear in mind, some of those statements have been made by left wing politicians.
Iāve not put any flags up personally, or helped anyone else, but Iām gonna hazard a guess that the people who are calling themselves āpatriotsā when placing those flags, probably have one of the above thoughts at the back of their mind.
Now it stands to reason that some of those people will be racist. (Thatās not a crime by the way). But does holding the views I stated above, make a person racist?
I donāt think thatās a reasonable extrapolation to make and certainly not one youād be able to prove in a court of law, if being racist was a crime.
One of the reasons reasonable people are anti racist is because racism tars everyone with the same skin colour, ethnic background, religion, country of origin etc with the same brush. I think if you genuinely tar everyone putting a union flag or at Georgeās cross or a Welsh or Scottish flag up with the same brush, you are being just as āracistā as the people you claim to dislikeā¦.
āAll these people putting up flagsā is just as prejudiced as āall these coming over on the boatsā
And from this some people have developed a nuro -association between the flag and racism? That is doing the flag a disservice. To the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?
Surely that is a good topic for a referendum?
Letās remind one second.
Has anyone actually suggested changing our flag?
Pretty sure the OP put that idea out there for discussion. Iām happy to discuss theories as well as actions. If youāre not, perhaps not commenting on the thread would be your best course of action?
Indeed the OP mentioned the flag being seen as a hate symbol. Not sure thereās any evidence of anyone genuinly requesting it be changed though - yet you seem to think they exist. Wondered how common this thought was, is all.
Perhaps if you concentrate on putting your own point across and not on trying to tell other people what i think?
If anyone is interested in what I think they can just ask me.
Well you made a direct statement about people wanting to change the flag:
āTo the point where some people will defend their prejudice by wanting to change the flag?ā
And I simply asked if anyone had actually suggested this move, as you appear to have claimed this stance as somehow genuine.
So I ask again, are you aware of anyone who actually wants to change our flag? "
Oh you asked again? And? |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"The point is that flags can carry meaning beyond patriotism and can easily be used as symbols of hate. The "it's just a flag" types would have a shit fit if ISIS flags were flown in the UK streets. Their outrage would correctly be on the basis of what that flag represents rather than what it actually says.
Exactly. This applies to the Union Flag just as much as it does any other national flag. I know what it represents, and it certainly isn't hate, despite the efforts of a few extremists. Can the same be said about ISIS? Clearly not. That's the difference."
Well said both š |
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Ā
"
So youāre comparing someone who puts a union flag on a lamppost to an ISIS terrorist? And seemingly you think the Brit is the bad guy out of those two?"
You should try addressing what people actually write rather than the assumptions you bring with you. These discussions will then become a lot easier for you to understand. |
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Ā
"The point is that flags can carry meaning beyond patriotism and can easily be used as symbols of hate. The "it's just a flag" types would have a shit fit if ISIS flags were flown in the UK streets. Their outrage would correctly be on the basis of what that flag represents rather than what it actually says.
Exactly. This applies to the Union Flag just as much as it does any other national flag. I know what it represents, and it certainly isn't hate, despite the efforts of a few extremists. Can the same be said about ISIS? Clearly not. That's the difference."
That difference is subjective. An ISIS cultist would say their flag represents a love of God through the religion of peace. It's easy to parrot a narrative if you believe it yourself. Not so easy to convince others, especially if you choose the OUTRAGE path. |
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By *erces LetiferManĀ 8 weeks ago
Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters |
"That difference is subjective."
No, it really isn't.
"An ISIS cultist would say their flag represents a love of God through the religion of peace."
And? A brainwashed member of an extremist, terrorist cult shows themselves to be deluded and/or a liar. Shocker.
"It's easy to parrot a narrative if you believe it yourself. Not so easy to convince others, especially if you choose the OUTRAGE path."
Even moreso when they choose the VIOLENCE and TYRANNICAL OPPRESSION path. Something these cultists never seem to learn. |
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By *ermbiManĀ 8 weeks ago
Ballyshannon |
As an Irish citizen born in N.Ireland i have no affinity to the union flag. Happy for it to change by taking out St Patricks saltire. Let NI join the rest of Ireland and become part of the EU again. |
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By (user no longer on site)Ā OPĀ Ā Ā Ā 8 weeks ago
|
"As an Irish citizen born in N.Ireland i have no affinity to the union flag. Happy for it to change by taking out St Patricks saltire. Let NI join the rest of Ireland and become part of the EU again. "
You reckon Eire want to run Belfast? š¤£ |
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Ā
"It's being reported that a Govt report out next week will label the Union Jack as a 'symbol of hate' which is obviously unacceptable.
What would your design be for a new national flag to represent 21st Century Britain to the world?
A nice bit of gammon on a plain, dull background
That is out straight away as itās clearly islamaphobic."
oh good old Islam fear, letās be honest I donāt expect to be blown up by some right wing flag waver, but I am likely to blown up by the religion of peace |
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Ā Ā
"That difference is subjective.
No, it really isn't.
An ISIS cultist would say their flag represents a love of God through the religion of peace.
And? A brainwashed member of an extremist, terrorist cult shows themselves to be deluded and/or a liar. Shocker.
It's easy to parrot a narrative if you believe it yourself. Not so easy to convince others, especially if you choose the OUTRAGE path.
Even moreso when they choose the VIOLENCE and TYRANNICAL OPPRESSION path. Something these cultists never seem to learn."
If it isn't "just a flag" in your opinion - and carries all that stuff you've ascribed to it, then clearly it IS subjective.
Thanks for playing |
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By *erces LetiferManĀ 8 weeks ago
Somewhere off the edge of the map... 'ere there be monsters |
"If it isn't "just a flag" in your opinion - and carries all that stuff you've ascribed to it, then clearly it IS subjective."
Ah. So you donāt understand that something can have both subjective and objective qualities simultaneously. And/or the differences between them. Gotcha. |
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Ā Ā
"If it isn't "just a flag" in your opinion - and carries all that stuff you've ascribed to it, then clearly it IS subjective.
Ah. So you donāt understand that something can have both subjective and objective qualities simultaneously. And/or the differences between them. Gotcha. "
You mean the flatness of the Earth isn't subjective because some people feel one way and others feel a different way? |
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