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Starmer finished
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"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?"
And then what?
Some other muppet steps in and everyone moans about them.
Itll be like the Tories all over again  |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?
And then what?
Some other muppet steps in and everyone moans about them.
Itll be like the Tories all over again "
No it isn't, he can't stay on if he's mislead the public and parliament. There has to be trust in politicians. It'd be like saying Boris should stay despite him lying about partygate. |
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"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?"
I think they are claiming Starmer did not know about this until this week and after the vetting showed the concerns they were overturned by officials at the foreign office. Possible Scape goat for Starmer |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"As useless as Starmer is there is only worse to replace him with currently in his party "
That's missing the point. If he's lied about the vetting process he has to go. No matter who or what follows, you can't have a PM that lies to the house or or the public. |
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"As useless as Starmer is there is only worse to replace him with currently in his party
That's missing the point. If he's lied about the vetting process he has to go. No matter who or what follows, you can't have a PM that lies to the house or or the public."
He lies every time he opens his mouth mate ha I’d love to see the back of him just hope it triggers a general election |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"As useless as Starmer is there is only worse to replace him with currently in his party
That's missing the point. If he's lied about the vetting process he has to go. No matter who or what follows, you can't have a PM that lies to the house or or the public.
He lies every time he opens his mouth mate ha I’d love to see the back of him just hope it triggers a general election "
Well that's wishful thinking considering Theresa may, Johnson, Truss and Sunak didn't trigger an election. |
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"The PM wasn't told?
Surely that means Lammy has to go!"
That was my first thought but on the radio they just said officials at the foreign office so wondered if they will pin it on some advisors. That said Lammy is supposed to be in charge there and in theory Starmer in charge of all of them |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The PM wasn't told?
Surely that means Lammy has to go!
That was my first thought but on the radio they just said officials at the foreign office so wondered if they will pin it on some advisors. That said Lammy is supposed to be in charge there and in theory Starmer in charge of all of them "
Exactly, Amber Rudd fell when windrush was exposed despite it being all Theresa May's doing |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Do I have to?
If you want the scapegoat you will "
He can't fall on that sword twice. He's gone!
He wasn't advising Lammy or the foreign office.
Not good enough.
I genuinely don't see how Starmer gets out of this one. You heard the clips? He has to go |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"Do I have to?
If you want the scapegoat you will
He can't fall on that sword twice. He's gone!
He wasn't advising Lammy or the foreign office.
Not good enough.
I genuinely don't see how Starmer gets out of this one. You heard the clips? He has to go"
McSweeney has already taken full responsibility for the Mandelson appointment.
He also reported that his government phone was stollen when he needed to hand it in for the Mandelson files.
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Do I have to?
If you want the scapegoat you will
He can't fall on that sword twice. He's gone!
He wasn't advising Lammy or the foreign office.
Not good enough.
I genuinely don't see how Starmer gets out of this one. You heard the clips? He has to go
McSweeney has already taken full responsibility for the Mandelson appointment.
He also reported that his government phone was stollen when he needed to hand it in for the Mandelson files.
"
Indeed.
This is a separate issue to mcsweeny advice.
The guardian reports that Mandelson failed his deep vetting and officials have either failed to pass it on to ministers - which I can't see.
Or ministers have ignored what they've been told either way Lammy and Starmer should be on the hook |
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Starmer is on a roll at the moment because he is standing up to Trump. His popularity has probably never been higher.
Far more importantant to the British public than all this 'Who's to blame over Mandleson' bickering. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Starmer is on a roll at the moment because he is standing up to Trump. His popularity has probably never been higher.
Far more importantant to the British public than all this 'Who's to blame over Mandleson' bickering."
Lying to the public???
Absolutely not!! I don't care if he's been canonised lately but lying to the public is a get the fuck out of here issue |
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I do agree he's got to go if he's lied to the public and knowingly misled parliament. But we don't know that he's done that, he may have been misled by someone else.
I also think it wouldn't be in the country's best interest for him to go. We can do without the additional instability in very unstable times and there isn't a good natural replacement for him. So I hope he didn't know. |
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Another poor appointment
Reeves fake CV and LinkedIn account, and a plagiarised book
Three homes Rayner avoiding stamp duty
Free clothes from donor Alli not on ministerial records
7th May elections will be interesting to see public mood |
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"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?"
Might not be the worst thing for Labour. As someone who voted for them, I find his leadership style to be maddening. |
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The power that Peter Mandleson held over the right wing of the Labour Party was always pretty impressive to be honest. Starmer is almost certainly lying of course. Why would a senior civil servant overrule the vetting process & not let Downing Street know, if Mandleson was their candidate for US Ambassador?
As if  |
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“I was not involved”.
Problem is when Starmer goes he’ll just be replaced by some other clueless loser.
Labour need to do the decent thing and call a General Election so we can get rid of the clowns.
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I think Starmer should go and ask Boris if this is a resigning matter, after all he resigned over eating a piece of birthday cake amongst other misdemeanours.
It would be interesting to see if he thinks appointing an ambassador to the US, whether in ignorance or not of his history with a convicted peodophile warrants his resignation. I wonder which is more serious in terms of how people like Rayner think when calling out people as frothy liquids. |
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Starmer says it is ‘staggering’ and ‘unforgivable’ he was not told Mandelson failed vetting
But he did know he appointed the mortgage fraudster and passport fraudster. Mandelson had to resign for each of these. |
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It all hinges on whether it gets 'leaked' that Starmer WAS officially briefed that MandyBoy failed the vetting.
We ALL know he failed. We ALL knew that when he was appointed as per the swathes of articles and TV interviews with pundits pointing out that very thing when the new US ambassador was unveiled.
That leak will (can't???) not happen though for one single, sole reason: Labour simply do not have a creditable 'understudy' waiting in the wings ready to bound on to the big stage. |
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"That leak will (can't???) not happen though for one single, sole reason: Labour simply do not have a creditable 'understudy' waiting in the wings ready to bound on to the big stage."
The other reason it's unlikely to happen yet is that the local elections are coming up and Labour will be getting a pasting. No one is foolish enough to try to take the reins just as that's about to happen. |
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"It's blatent hypocrisy from the Tories wanting Starmer out, given how their lot has acted over the past 6 years!"
the thing is everyone knew the torys were dodgy, labour sold themselves to the electorate as being a change from incompetence, turns out they are just as shit and just like the torys will cling on for dear life and will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming
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"It's blatent hypocrisy from the Tories wanting Starmer out, given how their lot has acted over the past 6 years! the thing is everyone knew the torys were dodgy, labour sold themselves to the electorate as being a change from incompetence, turns out they are just as shit and just like the torys will cling on for dear life and will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming"
Starmer promised integrity
Reeves CV
Rayner tax dodger
Starmer appointing mortgage and passport fraudster Mandelson.
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"It's blatent hypocrisy from the Tories wanting Starmer out, given how their lot has acted over the past 6 years!"
If Labour were at all bothered about the interests of the country they would have got rid of Starmer after about three months.
Free suits and glasses, dodgy rent boys, Mandelson. And that’s before we even get to the shitshow policies.
It’s been obvious to everyone aside from diehard Labour voters that he’s never been up to the job. |
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"It's blatent hypocrisy from the Tories wanting Starmer out, given how their lot has acted over the past 6 years!
If Labour were at all bothered about the interests of the country they would have got rid of Starmer after about three months.
Free suits and glasses, dodgy rent boys, Mandelson. And that’s before we even get to the shitshow policies.
It’s been obvious to everyone aside from diehard Labour voters that he’s never been up to the job."
And how many policy u turns |
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"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
Ha good one 🤣🤣🤣 "
Yes..i know he is |
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"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
Ha good one 🤣🤣🤣
Yes..i know he is"
How are we likely to find out? |
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"It's blatent hypocrisy from the Tories wanting Starmer out, given how their lot has acted over the past 6 years! the thing is everyone knew the torys were dodgy, labour sold themselves to the electorate as being a change from incompetence, turns out they are just as shit and just like the torys will cling on for dear life and will have to be dragged out kicking and screaming"
That's exactly right. Labour rightly attacked the Tories when they were in office but also promised they would be different and we would see an end to all the dodgy things. The set the height of their own bars and fell at the first |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"I think Starmer should go and ask Boris if this is a resigning matter, after all he resigned over eating a piece of birthday cake amongst other misdemeanours.
It would be interesting to see if he thinks appointing an ambassador to the US, whether in ignorance or not of his history with a convicted peodophile warrants his resignation. I wonder which is more serious in terms of how people like Rayner think when calling out people as frothy liquids."
That's not why Boris went!!
Boris lied to parliament |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man"
Please, what's he going to deliver?
I'm sat in a pub in Cardiff where people of all races and religions attend. You think we're going to stand for him and you and your likes rounding innocent people up based on the colour of their skin?
Get real, you might do well in protectionist areas in the valleys but not in anywhere that has an university and an outward looking view |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed."
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister! |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!"
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't ...
What makes you think that? I mean obviously he says that he didn't know, but what leads you to believe him?"
I think his reaction was genuine - that's only based feels.
However, reading the coverage in the Guardian and the FT and listening to bits and bobs on LBC.
The narrative I can pick up now is that it seems that the decision to keep it from the ministers has come from the mandarins, hence why Robbins went this morning and I think Romeo and the other one will have to go too!
However, for me, the story then moves to why didn't they feel comfortable enough reporting what they found?? What sort of culture has the PM set from the top?
That's why I think he has to go |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully. "
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......? |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?"
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre. "
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem! |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!"
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both"
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured "
No |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured
No"
Then we're in for very interesting times and a very unhappy electorate, parties winning 66% of seats on 33% of the vote in either direction is not sustainable and goes a long way in explaining this governments unpopularity so soon.
Your just asking for more churn and uncertainty.
We have to accept that the two party state is over, multitude of views exist and they deserve a vehicle for their views.
Having a proportional voting system would allow the block that can creat the coalition that's most likely to be stable and representative to speak for the majority vote |
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By *otMe66Man 3 weeks ago
Terra Firma |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured
No
Then we're in for very interesting times and a very unhappy electorate, parties winning 66% of seats on 33% of the vote in either direction is not sustainable and goes a long way in explaining this governments unpopularity so soon.
Your just asking for more churn and uncertainty.
We have to accept that the two party state is over, multitude of views exist and they deserve a vehicle for their views.
Having a proportional voting system would allow the block that can creat the coalition that's most likely to be stable and representative to speak for the majority vote "
We have politicians stuck in the headlights in first past the post. Make it a coalition of consideration, and the reality is the shades of difference make the whole thing unworkable to the point of self destruction.
Plenty of examples of ruling by committee failing and why that approach is favoured by the minority view. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured
No
Then we're in for very interesting times and a very unhappy electorate, parties winning 66% of seats on 33% of the vote in either direction is not sustainable and goes a long way in explaining this governments unpopularity so soon.
Your just asking for more churn and uncertainty.
We have to accept that the two party state is over, multitude of views exist and they deserve a vehicle for their views.
Having a proportional voting system would allow the block that can creat the coalition that's most likely to be stable and representative to speak for the majority vote
We have politicians stuck in the headlights in first past the post. Make it a coalition of consideration, and the reality is the shades of difference make the whole thing unworkable to the point of self destruction.
Plenty of examples of ruling by committee failing and why that approach is favoured by the minority view. "
The most stable government in my living memory has been the coalition government, I don't have to like what Osbourne did to appreciate the stability Cameron and clegg gave.
Most European countries run on coalitions as have Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.
You English need to get over your fear of coalitions!
They actually work out better |
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"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
Please, what's he going to deliver?
I'm sat in a pub in Cardiff where people of all races and religions attend. You think we're going to stand for him and you and your likes rounding innocent people up based on the colour of their skin?
Get real, you might do well in protectionist areas in the valleys but not in anywhere that has an university and an outward looking view "
Who has said anything about rounding up people based on the colour of their skin ?
The people that will be getting deported are the ones who are here illegally and the 10,000 foreign criminals in prison..i cant see how any true british patriot can object to such a common sense move. |
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"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
Please, what's he going to deliver?
I'm sat in a pub in Cardiff where people of all races and religions attend. You think we're going to stand for him and you and your likes rounding innocent people up based on the colour of their skin?
Get real, you might do well in protectionist areas in the valleys but not in anywhere that has an university and an outward looking view
Who has said anything about rounding up people based on the colour of their skin ?
The people that will be getting deported are the ones who are here illegally and the 10,000 foreign criminals in prison..i cant see how any true british patriot can object to such a common sense move."
‘Patriot’ klaxon !!!! |
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"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?"
If true, shows either desperation in trying to find someone to relate to donald duck so a SERIOUS misjudgement call.
You would really have to wonder with the sanity of people in power when it comes to informed decisions |
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"
Who has said anything about rounding up people based on the colour of their skin ?
The people that will be getting deported are the ones who are here illegally and the 10,000 foreign criminals in prison..i cant see how any true british patriot can object to such a common sense move."
Surely, nobody who is in posession of even a grain of 'common sense' can seriously believe that the eponymous principle, though fairly common, is usually sensible? |
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"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured
No
Then we're in for very interesting times and a very unhappy electorate, parties winning 66% of seats on 33% of the vote in either direction is not sustainable and goes a long way in explaining this governments unpopularity so soon.
Your just asking for more churn and uncertainty.
We have to accept that the two party state is over, multitude of views exist and they deserve a vehicle for their views.
Having a proportional voting system would allow the block that can creat the coalition that's most likely to be stable and representative to speak for the majority vote
We have politicians stuck in the headlights in first past the post. Make it a coalition of consideration, and the reality is the shades of difference make the whole thing unworkable to the point of self destruction.
Plenty of examples of ruling by committee failing and why that approach is favoured by the minority view.
The most stable government in my living memory has been the coalition government, I don't have to like what Osbourne did to appreciate the stability Cameron and clegg gave.
Most European countries run on coalitions as have Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.
You English need to get over your fear of coalitions!
They actually work out better "
It wasn’t really a “coalition” was it? It was a Liberal Democrat government. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"The hard left of the Labour party have never had a better chance to snatch the power. If they don't pull this off now, I'm feeling more confident that they wont get another chance, finger crossed.
Lol!!
Rhetorical surely!!
Labour have never removed a leader!
The pressure has to come from opposition and the public.
It's no longer even about if he knew or not, I think it's clear he didn't, it's now about why didn't the mandarins feel confident enough to tell the ministers and the prime minister!
Lets be realistic, the hard left needed to come to terms with the fact the public would never vote them in at a GE. Starmer had the calming persona to get labour a win in an election that was anyone other than tories.
From day 1 the hard left have been doing their best to remove him, it's their only realistic chance of power, even if it is for a short term. However if he rides this out I don't think they will get another chance, thankfully.
What's your hard left?
I suspect it would be different to mine
Seeing as no one has ever drawn lines or a chart on where the soft left, hard left and the right of labour are??
Where would the greens fall?
Because Polanski, Ramsey, Chowns and Lucas are slightly different.
Then you have your party, are the greens further to left or the right of them?
So, the far left line......?
And here is the socialist problem, the many different flavours.
My line in the sand is never get to a Corbyn view, I consider his views to be hard left, and beyond that there are ever increasing degrees up to far left. The Greens are left of Corbyn and the equivalent of Reform on the scale from centre.
And here is the socialist problem.....once would have worked.
In the age of conservative leaders loosing their minds, and a once Maggie Thatcher fan forming party after party until currently finding his spotlight in Reform UK.
A member that wasn't happy in bowing to Farage was a guy that wants to restore Britain back to some mythical time that we didn't have people who have always existed with a different melanin.
We then move to another ex member of reform who set up Advance UK who as far as I can make out want to deport anyone who arrived in Britain after him. Finally we have Lawrence fox of the reclaim party.
So seeing as the right is as much of a basket case as the left at the moment I don't accept it's a leftist problem!
I agree to a point. I think we have a problem of extremes, left and right, with both being an problem that is amplified by supporters of both
Or we can accept these views exist and adapt our voting system to be proportional and then allow coalitions of the most favoured
No
Then we're in for very interesting times and a very unhappy electorate, parties winning 66% of seats on 33% of the vote in either direction is not sustainable and goes a long way in explaining this governments unpopularity so soon.
Your just asking for more churn and uncertainty.
We have to accept that the two party state is over, multitude of views exist and they deserve a vehicle for their views.
Having a proportional voting system would allow the block that can creat the coalition that's most likely to be stable and representative to speak for the majority vote
We have politicians stuck in the headlights in first past the post. Make it a coalition of consideration, and the reality is the shades of difference make the whole thing unworkable to the point of self destruction.
Plenty of examples of ruling by committee failing and why that approach is favoured by the minority view.
The most stable government in my living memory has been the coalition government, I don't have to like what Osbourne did to appreciate the stability Cameron and clegg gave.
Most European countries run on coalitions as have Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland.
You English need to get over your fear of coalitions!
They actually work out better
It wasn’t really a “coalition” was it? It was a Liberal Democrat government."
David Cameron and George Osbourne liberal democrats? Ok |
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By *oath30 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
Please, what's he going to deliver?
I'm sat in a pub in Cardiff where people of all races and religions attend. You think we're going to stand for him and you and your likes rounding innocent people up based on the colour of their skin?
Get real, you might do well in protectionist areas in the valleys but not in anywhere that has an university and an outward looking view
Who has said anything about rounding up people based on the colour of their skin ?
The people that will be getting deported are the ones who are here illegally and the 10,000 foreign criminals in prison..i cant see how any true british patriot can object to such a common sense move."
That's exactly what remigration means
|
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This has already technically destroyed Starmer ( no one believes him) BUT he will limp on. Until the May elections at least. Simply because he will 'promise' his backbenchers a gravy train derailing General Election if they attempt to 'Et tu Brute' him. Power craving fussy little busy-bodies like him will do ANYTHING to retain power. |
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Is this any worse than Boris Johnson attending a ex KGB officers party. Without any security personnel or officials. Then according to some reports being at the residence for 2 days and emerging a total wreck. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
|
"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man"
The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash? |
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"
It wasn’t really a “coalition” was it? It was a Liberal Democrat government."
In the 2010–2015 Conservative–Liberal Democrat coalition government, the Conservative Party had the majority of its policies passed, consistent with its position as the senior partner with 306 MPs compared to 57 for the Liberal Democrats.
Conservative Policy Dominance
Economic Strategy: The central plank of the coalition—deficit reduction and the spending review—was primarily driven by the Conservative mantra of "We're all in this together".
Senior Position: As the largest party with both the Prime Minister (David Cameron) and Chancellor of the Exchequer (George Osborne), the Conservatives provided the primary inspiration for the programme for government.
Key Reforms: Major initiatives such as the extensive public bodies reform (reducing 290+ bodies) and significant welfare reforms were spearheaded by the Conservatives.
Liberal Democrat Influence and Key Policies
Key "Four Steps" Policies: The Liberal Democrats successfully passed several high-profile manifesto pledges, notably increasing the income tax personal allowance (tax cuts for low/middle earners), introducing shared parental leave, and pushing through same-sex marriage legislation.
Blocking Policies: The Liberal Democrats were effective in blocking a range of Conservative policies, including proposed human rights act changes and some boundary changes.
Key Influences: They also shaped policies around environmental protections, such as creating a green investment bank.
While the Liberal Democrats achieved significant, high-profile policy successes, the overarching economic and administrative direction was predominantly Conservative. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
|
It was Boris who introduced the rule that the PM doesn't have to be told.
It was to hide the likes of Lord Lebadov of Siberia ( his nomination) being put in the House of Lords. |
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"
It wasn’t really a “coalition” was it? It was a Liberal Democrat government.
In the 2010–2015 Conservative–Liberal Democrat coalition government, the Conservative Party had the majority of its policies passed, consistent with its position as the senior partner with 306 MPs compared to 57 for the Liberal Democrats.
Conservative Policy Dominance
Economic Strategy: The central plank of the coalition—deficit reduction and the spending review—was primarily driven by the Conservative mantra of "We're all in this together".
Senior Position: As the largest party with both the Prime Minister (David Cameron) and Chancellor of the Exchequer (George Osborne), the Conservatives provided the primary inspiration for the programme for government.
Key Reforms: Major initiatives such as the extensive public bodies reform (reducing 290+ bodies) and significant welfare reforms were spearheaded by the Conservatives.
Liberal Democrat Influence and Key Policies
Key "Four Steps" Policies: The Liberal Democrats successfully passed several high-profile manifesto pledges, notably increasing the income tax personal allowance (tax cuts for low/middle earners), introducing shared parental leave, and pushing through same-sex marriage legislation.
Blocking Policies: The Liberal Democrats were effective in blocking a range of Conservative policies, including proposed human rights act changes and some boundary changes.
Key Influences: They also shaped policies around environmental protections, such as creating a green investment bank.
While the Liberal Democrats achieved significant, high-profile policy successes, the overarching economic and administrative direction was predominantly Conservative. "
Good cut and paste contribution.
|
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"
It wasn’t really a “coalition” was it? It was a Liberal Democrat government.
In the 2010–2015 Conservative–Liberal Democrat coalition government, the Conservative Party had the majority of its policies passed, consistent with its position as the senior partner with 306 MPs compared to 57 for the Liberal Democrats.
Conservative Policy Dominance
Economic Strategy: The central plank of the coalition—deficit reduction and the spending review—was primarily driven by the Conservative mantra of "We're all in this together".
Senior Position: As the largest party with both the Prime Minister (David Cameron) and Chancellor of the Exchequer (George Osborne), the Conservatives provided the primary inspiration for the programme for government.
Key Reforms: Major initiatives such as the extensive public bodies reform (reducing 290+ bodies) and significant welfare reforms were spearheaded by the Conservatives.
Liberal Democrat Influence and Key Policies
Key "Four Steps" Policies: The Liberal Democrats successfully passed several high-profile manifesto pledges, notably increasing the income tax personal allowance (tax cuts for low/middle earners), introducing shared parental leave, and pushing through same-sex marriage legislation.
Blocking Policies: The Liberal Democrats were effective in blocking a range of Conservative policies, including proposed human rights act changes and some boundary changes.
Key Influences: They also shaped policies around environmental protections, such as creating a green investment bank.
While the Liberal Democrats achieved significant, high-profile policy successes, the overarching economic and administrative direction was predominantly Conservative.
Good cut and paste contribution.
"
You don't seem to be disagreeing with it. Shock, horror. |
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"
It wasn’t really a “coalition” was it? It was a Liberal Democrat government.
In the 2010–2015 Conservative–Liberal Democrat coalition government, the Conservative Party had the majority of its policies passed, consistent with its position as the senior partner with 306 MPs compared to 57 for the Liberal Democrats.
Conservative Policy Dominance
Economic Strategy: The central plank of the coalition—deficit reduction and the spending review—was primarily driven by the Conservative mantra of "We're all in this together".
Senior Position: As the largest party with both the Prime Minister (David Cameron) and Chancellor of the Exchequer (George Osborne), the Conservatives provided the primary inspiration for the programme for government.
Key Reforms: Major initiatives such as the extensive public bodies reform (reducing 290+ bodies) and significant welfare reforms were spearheaded by the Conservatives.
Liberal Democrat Influence and Key Policies
Key "Four Steps" Policies: The Liberal Democrats successfully passed several high-profile manifesto pledges, notably increasing the income tax personal allowance (tax cuts for low/middle earners), introducing shared parental leave, and pushing through same-sex marriage legislation.
Blocking Policies: The Liberal Democrats were effective in blocking a range of Conservative policies, including proposed human rights act changes and some boundary changes.
Key Influences: They also shaped policies around environmental protections, such as creating a green investment bank.
While the Liberal Democrats achieved significant, high-profile policy successes, the overarching economic and administrative direction was predominantly Conservative.
Good cut and paste contribution.
You don't seem to be disagreeing with it. Shock, horror."
No I was just admiring your ability to use basic IT functionality. |
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An article I read the other day said that Mandelson was announced as the US ambassador before all the vetting was finished. That, if true seems an odd way to go about these things. I hear that a few MP's have taken the opportunity to remind Starmer of speeches he made in the past when he was in opposition and attacking past prime ministers. All very embarrassing but like others say, who would replace him |
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"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves"
"Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man"
"The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash? "
The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
|
"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash?
The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals."
Criminals, with actual evidence of crimes committed. Not ‘grass up your foreign neighbour because you’re suspicious’ |
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"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves"
"Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man"
"The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash?"
"The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals."
"Criminals, with actual evidence of crimes committed. Not ‘grass up your foreign neighbour because you’re suspicious’"
Rupert Lowe is only proposing a hotline to report people that are here illegally, i.e. criminals. He didn't say so, but I strongly suspect that he won't be handing out cash to anyone reporting someone for possession of curly black hair and thick lips. |
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"The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals."
"Nope. It's a charity"
It is a charity, and the government provides the majority of its funding. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
|
"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash?
The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals.
Criminals, with actual evidence of crimes committed. Not ‘grass up your foreign neighbour because you’re suspicious’
Rupert Lowe is only proposing a hotline to report people that are here illegally, i.e. criminals. He didn't say so, but I strongly suspect that he won't be handing out cash to anyone reporting someone for possession of curly black hair and thick lips."
Are you in any way confident that only illegal immigrants will be reported? Or will some legal migrants and indeed British people be reported?
|
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"Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man"
"The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash?"
"The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals."
"Criminals, with actual evidence of crimes committed. Not ‘grass up your foreign neighbour because you’re suspicious’"
"Rupert Lowe is only proposing a hotline to report people that are here illegally, i.e. criminals. He didn't say so, but I strongly suspect that he won't be handing out cash to anyone reporting someone for possession of curly black hair and thick lips."
"Are you in any way confident that only illegal immigrants will be reported? Or will some legal migrants and indeed British people be reported? "
Do you honestly think that Crime Stoppers never gets false reports?
But that's not relevant. You criticised Lowe for offering cash to people who report criminals. The current government does the same thing.
There are many reasons to criticise Rupert Lowe, but his proposal to customise a policy followed by the current and previous governments is not one of them. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
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"Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash?
The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals.
Criminals, with actual evidence of crimes committed. Not ‘grass up your foreign neighbour because you’re suspicious’
Rupert Lowe is only proposing a hotline to report people that are here illegally, i.e. criminals. He didn't say so, but I strongly suspect that he won't be handing out cash to anyone reporting someone for possession of curly black hair and thick lips.
Are you in any way confident that only illegal immigrants will be reported? Or will some legal migrants and indeed British people be reported?
Do you honestly think that Crime Stoppers never gets false reports?
But that's not relevant. You criticised Lowe for offering cash to people who report criminals. The current government does the same thing.
There are many reasons to criticise Rupert Lowe, but his proposal to customise a policy followed by the current and previous governments is not one of them."
I think crime stoppers get fake reports, yes, i’m not an idiot.
Do you think a policy of grassing up a neighbour on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant is conducive to a more cohesive society? |
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Nah a Labour supporter, but he'll be ok.
I think he's got too much integrity/sense to be caught up in that shit.
I do enjoy how every news outlet focused on that rather than we slipped into the top 5 economies again.
Got to love media narrative. |
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"Do you think a policy of grassing up a neighbour on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant is conducive to a more cohesive society? "
No I don't. I'm not a fan of Lowe or his policies. I'm just pointing out that your description of him as "the guy who wants citizens to report people for cash" is not a good one, since it doesn't narrow down the field of politicians in general. |
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By (user no longer on site) 2 weeks ago
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"Do you think a policy of grassing up a neighbour on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant is conducive to a more cohesive society?
No I don't. I'm not a fan of Lowe or his policies. I'm just pointing out that your description of him as "the guy who wants citizens to report people for cash" is not a good one, since it doesn't narrow down the field of politicians in general. "
Well I don’t see many others offering a cash for immigrants scheme. |
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"Do you think a policy of grassing up a neighbour on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant is conducive to a more cohesive society?"
"No I don't. I'm not a fan of Lowe or his policies. I'm just pointing out that your description of him as "the guy who wants citizens to report people for cash" is not a good one, since it doesn't narrow down the field of politicians in general."
"Well I don’t see many others offering a cash for immigrants scheme."
You didn't say "cash for immigrants" in your first post. If you had I wouldn't have commented. |
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For those who remember 'yes prime minister ' Maggie Thatcher said it was realistic of how government advisors operate. Yes, I do think it's possible he was uninformed,more importantly we need someone with enough stature to represent us on the world stage. Is there anyone else in any party able to handle the middle east problem, or deal with Trump and Putin? |
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Starmer is just some over-promoted middle ranking public sector manager.
Happy to turn up in the nice suit and glasses paid for by someone else. Not very productive and doesn’t achieve much. Dull and uninspiring. Nothing is his responsibility.
Pretty tragic for the country that these no-hopers are the best we can come up with. |
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By *coptoCouple 2 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
Mandelson’s naughty and obfuscated his finances; fixed things for his gay houseboy…
Mandelson’s a good politician and served the UK well in Europe…
Mandelson’s image and relationship with Epstein is/is not a vote catcher/loser.
These are POLITICAL factors that the Prime Minister must have considered when he made his choice. It’s inappropriate for the vetting procedure to have concerned itself with anything other than SECURITY issues. |
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"Starmer is just some over-promoted middle ranking public sector manager.
Happy to turn up in the nice suit and glasses paid for by someone else. Not very productive and doesn’t achieve much. Dull and uninspiring. Nothing is his responsibility.
Pretty tragic for the country that these no-hopers are the best we can come up with."
And he's still better than the last four (maybe five or six) with no other obvious option. |
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"Starmer is just some over-promoted middle ranking public sector manager.
Happy to turn up in the nice suit and glasses paid for by someone else. Not very productive and doesn’t achieve much. Dull and uninspiring. Nothing is his responsibility.
Pretty tragic for the country that these no-hopers are the best we can come up with.
And he's still better than the last four (maybe five or six) with no other obvious option."
It does amuse me when anonymous people knock down people who have actually achieved something and got to prestigious positions.
Yes you can disagree with things they do and criticise other aspects. But to say they don't have any attributes, while no has heard of you, is laughable. |
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"Starmer is just some over-promoted middle ranking public sector manager.
Happy to turn up in the nice suit and glasses paid for by someone else. Not very productive and doesn’t achieve much. Dull and uninspiring. Nothing is his responsibility.
Pretty tragic for the country that these no-hopers are the best we can come up with.
And he's still better than the last four (maybe five or six) with no other obvious option.
It does amuse me when anonymous people knock down people who have actually achieved something and got to prestigious positions.
Yes you can disagree with things they do and criticise other aspects. But to say they don't have any attributes, while no has heard of you, is laughable. "
“Prestigious positions” lol.
The bitter end Labour bootlickers are out in force. Keep doffing that cap. |
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"Starmer is just some over-promoted middle ranking public sector manager.
Happy to turn up in the nice suit and glasses paid for by someone else. Not very productive and doesn’t achieve much. Dull and uninspiring. Nothing is his responsibility.
Pretty tragic for the country that these no-hopers are the best we can come up with.
And he's still better than the last four (maybe five or six) with no other obvious option.
It does amuse me when anonymous people knock down people who have actually achieved something and got to prestigious positions.
Yes you can disagree with things they do and criticise other aspects. But to say they don't have any attributes, while no has heard of you, is laughable.
“Prestigious positions” lol.
The bitter end Labour bootlickers are out in force. Keep doffing that cap."
For the record. I am not a labour supporter, haven't voted for them since 1998. The Prime Minister office is a prestigious position whatever you may think.
But someone who thinks the Tory, Liberal coalition was a Liberal government, am not really amazed at your detachment from reality. |
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"As useless as Starmer is there is only worse to replace him with currently in his party
That's missing the point. If he's lied about the vetting process he has to go. No matter who or what follows, you can't have a PM that lies to the house or or the public.
He lies every time he opens his mouth mate ha I’d love to see the back of him just hope it triggers a general election "
All politicians lie to us british people so no matter who is in charge were all fucked regardless |
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By *abioMan 2 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Well the trump administration approved Mandalson and they had the Epstein files 🤷♂️"
And this is my fundamental frustration with everything that is happening
I normally like everything you post… but the reason why he failed security vetting wasn’t anything to do with his relationship with Epstein
It is to do with his relationships with Chinese banks… and his potential to be compromised if things went sideways
This is such an inside Westminster thing… the civil service did their job and recognised the red flags… someone at the top of the civil service should have told either the PM or the foreign secretary but looks like they didn’t… which is why the permanent civil service secretary fell on their sword |
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"Well the trump administration approved Mandalson and they had the Epstein files 🤷♂️
And this is my fundamental frustration with everything that is happening
I normally like everything you post… but the reason why he failed security vetting wasn’t anything to do with his relationship with Epstein
It is to do with his relationships with Chinese banks… and his potential to be compromised if things went sideways
This is such an inside Westminster thing… the civil service did their job and recognised the red flags… someone at the top of the civil service should have told either the PM or the foreign secretary but looks like they didn’t… which is why the permanent civil service secretary fell on their sword "
How do you know what he failed on?
While the process gives conclusions and the items in the public eye may be considered by the vetting officers, there may be other considerations based on things that we don't know or items disclosed in full or part by the applicant.
The process will never disclose the reasons for the final failure decision to maintain the integrity of that process.
So, how do you know (other than the wider speculation)? |
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Correct....while the conclusions are being widely circulated, the reasoning is not in the public domain. Everyone is speculating about the reasoning....only a select few will actually know.
Keeping personal information private maintains the integrity of the system.
Put it like this. Hypothetically, why would someone having an affair seek DV status if they were going to be outed to their partner? The question that the vetting officer would ask is whether the applicant has been honest and whether a rogue agency could use that information to elicit a breach of security. A disclosure to the partner of the applicant is unnecessary. In fact, publicly available disclosures would prohibit many for applying for posts regardless of whether the posting is at the highest level of the diplomatic corps or an 'average' operational officer needing access to secretary material. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 2 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Is this any worse than Boris Johnson attending a ex KGB officers party. Without any security personnel or officials. Then according to some reports being at the residence for 2 days and emerging a total wreck."
Not sure whataboutery helps, ever. Especially not when the guy who promised change is now displaying exrradinary similarities to Johnson by shape shifting and moving goal posts. |
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By *oath30 OP Man 2 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"You need to remember that all politicians are liars and only out for themselves
Not all..check out rupert lowe of restore britain..as straight as they come...top man
The guy who wants citizens to report people for cash?
The current government funds Crime Stoppers, which is an organisation that pays cash to people that dob in criminals.
Criminals, with actual evidence of crimes committed. Not ‘grass up your foreign neighbour because you’re suspicious’"
Suspicious being your black or brown up the Valleys despite the place being riddled with crime and drugs due to poverty linked to old Maggie.
But please go on..... How it's all those immigrants problems |
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By *oath30 OP Man 2 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Starmer is just some over-promoted middle ranking public sector manager.
Happy to turn up in the nice suit and glasses paid for by someone else. Not very productive and doesn’t achieve much. Dull and uninspiring. Nothing is his responsibility.
Pretty tragic for the country that these no-hopers are the best we can come up with.
And he's still better than the last four (maybe five or six) with no other obvious option."
You don't not punish someone because there's no other option.
There has to be consequences.
Johnson and Truss has shown us the British system is strong enough to withstand whatever comes next.
The biggest barrier to removing him is the labour parties "rules".
They require 80% of the ppl and a contender.
They don't lack contenders, the contenters lack 80%! Of the ppl |
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By *oath30 OP Man 2 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"Well the trump administration approved Mandalson and they had the Epstein files 🤷♂️
And this is my fundamental frustration with everything that is happening
I normally like everything you post… but the reason why he failed security vetting wasn’t anything to do with his relationship with Epstein
It is to do with his relationships with Chinese banks… and his potential to be compromised if things went sideways
This is such an inside Westminster thing… the civil service did their job and recognised the red flags… someone at the top of the civil service should have told either the PM or the foreign secretary but looks like they didn’t… which is why the permanent civil service secretary fell on their sword "
The intricacies of it might be.
But the sense of another fuck up. Another let down by another prime minister for dodginess is definitely cutting through |
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By *oath30 OP Man 2 weeks ago
Cardiff |
"... which is why the permanent civil service secretary fell on their sword
I think it would be more accurate to say that he was shoved, kicking and screaming, onto a sword."
Tribunal incoming. Starmer fucked up sacking Robbins |
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"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?"
Fuck me, every politician has lied.
Churchill, Thatcher, Boris, etc. The last person to enter the houses of parliament palace with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes. It didn't do him much good either. |
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"As useless as Starmer is there is only worse to replace him with currently in his party "
Sadly this is true, politicians are regarded as low life. Sleaze corruption non effective, not worth the money.
Some would say "I want my tax money back"
What makes me laugh about Starmer all the things he criticised the Conservatives him and his party have been doing similar dodgyness.
His favourite phrase at the despatch box "Hang your heads in shame" aimed at the opposition.
As bad as each other and it's showing now.
I remember when Callaghans Labour administration messed up the country not far from it now.
I'm politicaly unbiased.
|
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If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture. |
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture."
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left! |
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!"
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice. |
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice."
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
|
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By *oath30 OP Man 1 week ago
Cardiff |
"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice.
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
"
Evidence?
Your telling me labour won the last election from non workers alone?
|
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice.
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
Evidence?
Your telling me labour won the last election from non workers alone?
"
labour won the last election because the majority of people decided not to vote, remember starmer managed to get even less votes than corbyn |
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By *oath30 OP Man 1 week ago
Cardiff |
"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice.
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
Evidence?
Your telling me labour won the last election from non workers alone?
labour won the last election because the majority of people decided not to vote, remember starmer managed to get even less votes than corbyn"
Labour got 33% of the vote
What the guy before you suggested was that all of them weren't on work |
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By *CExeCouple 1 week ago
Hong-Kong/Exeter |
"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture."
Put the crack pipe down. The guy cancelled WFA despite Labour having commissioned research that stated there would be thousands of excess deaths if it was removed. Over 2500 extra deaths thanks to Starmer, but because you don't like the US or Israel you're glad he's PM? |
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
Put the crack pipe down. The guy cancelled WFA despite Labour having commissioned research that stated there would be thousands of excess deaths if it was removed. Over 2500 extra deaths thanks to Starmer, but because you don't like the US or Israel you're glad he's PM? "
Labour are still paying the WFA on a means tested basis are they not? |
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By (user no longer on site) 1 week ago
|
"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice.
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
Evidence?
Your telling me labour won the last election from non workers alone?
labour won the last election because the majority of people decided not to vote, remember starmer managed to get even less votes than corbyn"
When was the last time a party won an election with the majority of people voting for them? (That is 50% of votes in favour) |
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice.
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
Evidence?
Your telling me labour won the last election from non workers alone?
labour won the last election because the majority of people decided not to vote, remember starmer managed to get even less votes than corbyn
When was the last time a party won an election with the majority of people voting for them? (That is 50% of votes in favour) "
I’ve googled that before, it was 1951 (a Tory led national coalition).
This is why we need PR. Why should the country suffer the likes of Thatcher ruling absolute on 44% of the vote tops? |
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"If Farage or Badenoch had been the PM we would now be standing next to Israel and the USA. Pariahs to most of the world and beholden to two criminals. So I for one am glad Starmer is our leader at this juncture.
OMG so you are the last Labour voter left!
Not even on here, I would suspect. A good few still around. Despite the party having a name which alludes to work of the non cushy variety.
Understandably not every go-getter's ideal choice.
It’s odd how the bigger political parties have names which no longer represent what they stand for:
The Conservatives gave up conserving anything years ago.
Labour is the party of people who don’t want to do much (or any) labour.
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal nor democratic.
The Greens no longer mention anything Green.
Time will tell I suppose if Reform or Restore actually manage to reform or restore anything.
Evidence?
Your telling me labour won the last election from non workers alone?
labour won the last election because the majority of people decided not to vote, remember starmer managed to get even less votes than corbyn
When was the last time a party won an election with the majority of people voting for them? (That is 50% of votes in favour)
I’ve googled that before, it was 1951 (a Tory led national coalition).
This is why we need PR. Why should the country suffer the likes of Thatcher ruling absolute on 44% of the vote tops?"
No Britain does not need PR.
While it may seem to be "more democratic" the reality is that it is actually less democratic.
You say that Mrs T ruled with 44%. That may be true, I haven't checked the numbers. But 44% and even, dare I say, Starmer's 33% is better than a party being in government with just over 16% while the party that came second on over 20% has no part in government. Democratic?
That is the case in in PR Germany today. Ruled by a coalition that wasn't voted for in the election but was cobbled together over beer and bratwurst behind closed doors.
It doesn't really matter where you party loyalties lie. One election may work in your favour but the next one may not.
FPTP is far from perfect but be very careful what you wish for with PR. |
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By (user no longer on site) 1 week ago
|
"If
That is the case in in PR Germany today. Ruled by a coalition that wasn't voted for in the election but was cobbled together over beer and bratwurst behind closed doors.
"
You mean the same way our coalitions are created after a hung parliament? |
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"If
That is the case in in PR Germany today. Ruled by a coalition that wasn't voted for in the election but was cobbled together over beer and bratwurst behind closed doors.
You mean the same way our coalitions are created after a hung parliament? "
That wasn't really the point I was making.
Any system can produce a hung parliament.
The difference is that PR tends to produce nothing but hung parliaments.
If there was some kind of rule compelling the two (or more if need be) largest party's to get their heads together then that could de described as democratic, but it never seems to work like that. Reality has a bad habit of biting idealism on the arse.
So it goes down to back room deals with small party's who end up with more power than their support deserves.
Meanwhile the party who came second, sometimes by a very small margin, sits on the outside looking in. A quick look at the current Spanish government is another good example.
Of course FPTP can also produce similar results, as happened in 2010. But it is extremely rare.
Interesting will be what happens in Scotland next week. I predict a dogs breakfast. |
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Keir will cling on my his finger nails. Labour have not got anyone else even remotely competent.. On Plus note Next Labour Elected PM has not been born yet..
Next weeks elections will be blood bath for Labour. PLEASE look at the polls in the area and vote for Whoever will make sure Labour/greens Do Not win! USE YOUR VOTE WISELY |
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"Keir will cling on my his finger nails. Labour have not got anyone else even remotely competent.. On Plus note Next Labour Elected PM has not been born yet..
Next weeks elections will be blood bath for Labour. PLEASE look at the polls in the area and vote for Whoever will make sure Labour/greens Do Not win! USE YOUR VOTE WISELY "
Dont worry. The public are such idiots that the conservatives will probably get all their votes! |
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"Keir will cling on my his finger nails. Labour have not got anyone else even remotely competent.. On Plus note Next Labour Elected PM has not been born yet..
Next weeks elections will be blood bath for Labour. PLEASE look at the polls in the area and vote for Whoever will make sure Labour/greens Do Not win! USE YOUR VOTE WISELY
Dont worry. The public are such idiots that the conservatives will probably get all their votes!"
Listening to a guy on the radio the other day, the conservatives could also be in for a bad night. 1 week to go until new find out |
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By *uietbloke67Man 1 day ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"Now we can be sure of one thing.
Starmer will not be gone before 30th May.
He will eventually walk from Downing St. But he will never give up his VIP ticket for the Champions League final.  "
As opposed to a 5 million back hander |
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"Now we can be sure of one thing.
Starmer will not be gone before 30th May.
He will eventually walk from Downing St. But he will never give up his VIP ticket for the Champions League final. "
Always time to squeeze in another freebie |
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"Now we can be sure of one thing.
Starmer will not be gone before 30th May.
He will eventually walk from Downing St. But he will never give up his VIP ticket for the Champions League final. "
I certainly hope someone does a contents inventory when the Labour ministers finally leave their official residences and country retreats. |
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"Now we can be sure of one thing.
Starmer will not be gone before 30th May.
He will eventually walk from Downing St. But he will never give up his VIP ticket for the Champions League final. "
He's welcome to mine, if he is that desperate! |
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"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?"
I really don't care.
Ive been around the block enough times to know if you think any political party will actually help you in any meaningful fashion, you are a bit naive at best, delusional at worse.
Sometimes its best to look in a mirror to find the main culprit of your woes. |
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By *uietbloke67Man 8 hours ago
outside your bedroom window ;-) |
"Guardian reporting that Mandelson failed deep vetting.
Has Starmer lied?
Has he mislead the public and parliament?
Curtains for Starmer?
I really don't care.
Ive been around the block enough times to know if you think any political party will actually help you in any meaningful fashion, you are a bit naive at best, delusional at worse.
Sometimes its best to look in a mirror to find the main culprit of your woes. "
That actually makes sense |
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