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Reform a serious party ?
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By *winga2 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Stranraer |
I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂 |
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂"
They seem to be being taken seriously at present or at least a serious threat to the established party's. For me they are a pressure party and good at getting things without actually being in office |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂"
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country. |
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"What does it mean to "turn the UK into a crypto haven"?"
To have little or no regulation over crypto currencies, such ‘Tether’ the company in which Harborne is a major investor. Tether has been implicated in the laundering of money by organised crime, and used by the likes of Hamas, and Iran to move money around. Lately it has garnered interest from the National Crime Agency, who say it is part of a scheme that allows Russia to avoid sanctions.
In the US crypto was under a lot of scrutiny by the justice department under Biden, with a few very high profile prosecutions, but under Trump this has ceased. I’m sure the fact that up to 90% of the increase in Trump family wealth coming from crypto has nothing to do with that. |
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"What does it mean to "turn the UK into a crypto haven"?
To have little or no regulation over crypto currencies...
But what does that look like?"
Even more dodgy money flowing through London than already does, and potentially a lot of people being paid in crypto so the tax man can’t get hold of it. |
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country."
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree"
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means. |
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means."
In this context it means you have to work with other parties to reach an agreement on how to govern the city. |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means."
It means that you don’t have the majority of seats…. It’s doesn’t mean you can’t run it as a minority administration…
I mean… if other parties agree with you on a subject by subject basis , then you can run it that way.. I mean.. cooperation! Who’d have funked it! |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means.
In this context it means you have to work with other parties to reach an agreement on how to govern the city."
Incorrect. You don’t “have to”. You may decide that you don’t want to because the compromises aren’t acceptable. |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means.
In this context it means you have to work with other parties to reach an agreement on how to govern the city.
Incorrect. You don’t “have to”. You may decide that you don’t want to because the compromises aren’t acceptable."
In which case you run it as a minority administration, and if enough people don’t agree with what you want to do subject by subject.. it doesn’t pass! Simple as… |
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"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means.
In this context it means you have to work with other parties to reach an agreement on how to govern the city.
Incorrect. You don’t “have to”. You may decide that you don’t want to because the compromises aren’t acceptable."
Then you’re going to have a really hard time running a council. In this case they may even do a worse job than they have in the councils they already control. And that would be some achievement. |
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A few decades later, the aliens arrive.
Tories - We will implement a points-based galactic immigration system so that only the aliens who contribute to our economy positively will arrive. The ones who arrive illegally will be deported to Venus and have their asylum claims processed.
Labour - Cancels the Venus plans. Gets into a one-in one-out plan with France to exchange aliens, who have fun going around both the countries.
Reform - Those aliens are leeching off the tax payers money, murdering and r@ping our people. A Reform government will deport them back to their own planets. We will get out of the Galactic species rights agreement if we have to.
Greens - Alien rights are human rights. Stop discriminating aliens, you bigots! A Greens government will open our borders to the Aliens and make them feel welcome here. We will even make them cabinet ministers. |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"It gives you a taste of the chaos that will ensue if people actually voted for these fucking clowns in a general election, not just a city, the entire UK could be ungoverned "
This is a thread about Reform. I think there is another one about the Labour Party. |
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By *I TwoCouple 3 weeks ago
near enough |
"It gives you a taste of the chaos that will ensue if people actually voted for these fucking clowns in a general election, not just a city, the entire UK could be ungoverned
This is a thread about Reform. I think there is another one about the Labour Party."
You haven't been reading the news then 🙄 |
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Reform have lost control of Worcestershire Council, a rainbow coalition of Lib Dems, Greens, Conservatives, and independents have taken over.
This follows a 9% council tax rise and a leadership coup in the Reform group. |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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Reform re racist bigots who hate so many. They have many times insulted my kids language and culture. They are just a relic of the English chip on the shoulder. Mixed with Nazi ideology |
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"Reform, led by a multimillionaire, funded by a billionaire in Thailand, definitely the party of the average Brit . . ."
I remember Boris holidaying in Zac Goldsmith’s Spanish villa, part of a €24M tax evasion case.
More Labour MPs imprisoned for expenses fraud than any other party.
Zahawi’s £8k electric claim for stabling, Rayner (tax paid but no fine) stamp duty, and faux cv Reeves ( agents error) unlicensed HMO while councils handing out minimum £7k landlord fines for minor misnomers.
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I just read the story Reform Councillor Kieran Lay, Thorne and Moorends Ward, asking Full Council for measures to monitor UFO activity as part of reopening Doncaster Sheffield Airport 🛸
And they're ready to run the country 😂😂😂
You should try looking into the Labour Party. Apparently they are actually running the country.
The TWENTYFOUR year old leader of reform group in Birmingham admits they can't form an administration.
A fucking child probably just finished wasting tax payers money on some obscure degree
Amazing. If only we could work out what “No Overall Control” means.
In this context it means you have to work with other parties to reach an agreement on how to govern the city.
Incorrect. You don’t “have to”. You may decide that you don’t want to because the compromises aren’t acceptable."
…. In which case I’d love to be a fly on the wall at those local constituent meetings when they explain that they decided to shun all their local responsibilities because they didn’t get their way…
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"Reform, led by a multimillionaire, funded by a billionaire in Thailand, definitely the party of the average Brit . . ."
Which of the main party leaders are not multimillionaires? Polanski isn’t but the rest are. I’m not so sure that Polanski having been a serial failure at everything else he has tried is a good recommendation for him playing a serious part in leading the country.
Demographically speaking the richer you are the more likely you are to vote Labour. This has been the case for a long time, and if Labour were concerned about the “working class vote” it should have been analysing why this change was happening and doing something about it.
The issue for Labour is that it likes working class votes, but it doesn’t like working class voters. |
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I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM? |
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"Reform, led by a multimillionaire, funded by a billionaire in Thailand, definitely the party of the average Brit . . .
Which of the main party leaders are not multimillionaires? Polanski isn’t but the rest are. I’m not so sure that Polanski having been a serial failure at everything else he has tried is a good recommendation for him playing a serious part in leading the country.
Demographically speaking the richer you are the more likely you are to vote Labour. This has been the case for a long time, and if Labour were concerned about the “working class vote” it should have been analysing why this change was happening and doing something about it.
The issue for Labour is that it likes working class votes, but it doesn’t like working class voters."
Have any other party leaders received a personal gift of £5 million from a Thai citizen billionaire? |
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"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?"
If he were to be recalled, I suspect the local people would just vote him back in again. They've proved themselves Reform voters before, and nothing has changed. I'm not sure that tells us anything about whether Reform is a "cult of personality". |
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"
The issue for Labour is that it likes working class votes, but it doesn’t like working class voters."
The left - These working class people are so unintelligent. They don't know what they want. They are stupid chavs.
Also the left - Why isn't the working class voting for my left wing party? 😭 |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?"
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
If he were to be recalled, I suspect the local people would just vote him back in again. They've proved themselves Reform voters before, and nothing has changed. I'm not sure that tells us anything about whether Reform is a "cult of personality"."
If there was a recall if I was another party… I would come to an agreement with all the other parties not to run and let a local independent candidate go against him… and call him out on local issues and how much time his actually spent representing the local constituency!
That would be the most interesting contest |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib "
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
|
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"If there was a recall if I was another party… I would come to an agreement with all the other parties not to run and let a local independent candidate go against him… and call him out on local issues and how much time his actually spent representing the local constituency!
That would be the most interesting contest"
It would be interesting. But if you were in charge of one of the main parties, would you really trust any of the others not to wait till the last second and then put their candidate in anyway? |
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"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
"
Great. So let’s rinse & repeat what Trump has done over there in the US of A then just because those thicko working class voters get to stick it to the man just like they did with Brexit. I mean, Trump is so popular at the moment isn’t he? Bet he can’t wait for the mid terms.
Big Nige seems to have piped down a tad just lately where his MAGA mate Trumpster is concerned…why is that? |
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"What does it mean to "turn the UK into a crypto haven"?
To have little or no regulation over crypto currencies...
But what does that look like?"
Probably the masses being more shafted, more easily, whilst a tiny minority get their vast wealth surging. Plus the criminal underworld getting set free, without constraints, to plunder, what others haven't. |
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By *winga2 OP Man 3 weeks ago
Stranraer |
"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
"
Let's see how farages kiddys do with the bit of power they've won.
From why I've read it's not exactly going well.
Something about UFO monitoring wasn't there
Maybe his supporters will open their eyes |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
Let's see how farages kiddys do with the bit of power they've won.
From why I've read it's not exactly going well.
Something about UFO monitoring wasn't there
Maybe his supporters will open their eyes"
Quite right. Leave it to the Labour experts!
Sane government for the whole of the country! The adults are back in charge!
LABOUR PEASANTS! Get back in line and resume voting for your Masters! Enough of this foolishness! |
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"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
Let's see how farages kiddys do with the bit of power they've won.
From why I've read it's not exactly going well.
Something about UFO monitoring wasn't there
Maybe his supporters will open their eyes
Quite right. Leave it to the Labour experts!
Sane government for the whole of the country! The adults are back in charge!
LABOUR PEASANTS! Get back in line and resume voting for your Masters! Enough of this foolishness! "
Seems like someone touched a nerve. |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
Let's see how farages kiddys do with the bit of power they've won.
From why I've read it's not exactly going well.
Something about UFO monitoring wasn't there
Maybe his supporters will open their eyes
Quite right. Leave it to the Labour experts!
Sane government for the whole of the country! The adults are back in charge!
LABOUR PEASANTS! Get back in line and resume voting for your Masters! Enough of this foolishness! "
Just wondering which of reforms policies you are strongly advocating for…
Privatisation of the NHS?
Reducing statutory sick pay?
Reducing the minimum wage?
Scrapped the max 40 hour week?
Scrapping benefits for those people with “ depression”
Supporting zero hours contracts?
Scrapping rights to paternity leave?
Supporting fire and rehire?
Opposing stronger renters rights?
Just wondering what makes them so appealing other than “not labour” |
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By *I TwoCouple 3 weeks ago
near enough |
"I suppose there is a chance we may find out whether Reform is a cult of personality as James Cleverly refers to Nigel Farage.
Because if the standards commissioner censures Farage over the £5 million he took, he is suspended from parliament, obliged to endure a recall petition, and possible by election…
What price Reform then in 2029 without Farage as potential PM?
Have to add an asterisk in there *
* if the censure Farage… and the punishment is a suspension of more than 10 sitting days in the House of Commons… then you can have the recall ect ect
Now…. The interesting thing is that Farage has previous in not declaring things in the member book of interests before.. for which he was given a warning
And he does have a declaration in the members book of interests of a 10000 pound gift from an individual which he said it went towards “moving costs, accommodation …… and security “
So… if he mentioned it there … the question then is why not declare it with the much larger sum.. or why not declare it at all!
And this is all without even talking about the 1.4 million pound home paid all cash just after he got said receiving the 5 mil….. and the financial allegations now being made by Ben habib
This is all standard Biden/Harris playbook.
Let’s try and ban [Trump/Farage], jail him, bankrupt him etc etc. The British Left haven’t got a single original idea left to offer the country. Their time is up.
It will backfire in the UK just as it did in the US. If it got as far as a recall Farage will just get elected with a bigger majority and it will provide him with a lot more “it’s us against the Blob” publicity.
The Leftist government is collapsing around them and all they can do is diversionary bleating about Farage.
Let's see how farages kiddys do with the bit of power they've won.
From why I've read it's not exactly going well.
Something about UFO monitoring wasn't there
Maybe his supporters will open their eyes
Quite right. Leave it to the Labour experts!
Sane government for the whole of the country! The adults are back in charge!
LABOUR PEASANTS! Get back in line and resume voting for your Masters! Enough of this foolishness! "
Adults ... Reform .... Deluded, mistaken or taking the piss I'm not sure which |
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"Just wondering which of reforms policies you are strongly advocating for…
Privatisation of the NHS?
Reducing statutory sick pay?
Reducing the minimum wage?
Scrapped the max 40 hour week?
Scrapping benefits for those people with “ depression”
Supporting zero hours contracts?
Scrapping rights to paternity leave?
Supporting fire and rehire?
Opposing stronger renters rights?
Just wondering what makes them so appealing other than “not labour”"
I know you think you have some killer arguments there, but you're going to be disappointed with the responses.
7 of the 9 things you listed can be covered by "workers rights", and a lot of people feel that worker's rights have gone too far. Up and down the country businesses are struggling because of high costs, with labour costs being a contributor to that. Unemployment is high for young people in part because recent worker's rights legislation has made it expensive to hire them. Recent "renter's rights" legislation has led to a mass exodus of landlords from the market. Fewer landlords means fewer rental properties, which means higher rental prices for those that remain.
It's obvious that you think those 9 points are all good reasons to keep Farage out. Lots of people reading your post are genuinely going to think that most of those are good reasons to vote Farage in. |
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I never understood the left's hatred for zero hour contracts. It works great for some people who do not want the commitment of a full term contract and businesses who are looking for an occasional extra hand.
As long as the business and the workers reach a contract based on mutual consent, why do some people feel the need to poke their noses into this matter? |
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"Just wondering which of reforms policies you are strongly advocating for…
Privatisation of the NHS?
Reducing statutory sick pay?
Reducing the minimum wage?
Scrapped the max 40 hour week?
Scrapping benefits for those people with “ depression”
Supporting zero hours contracts?
Scrapping rights to paternity leave?
Supporting fire and rehire?
Opposing stronger renters rights?
Just wondering what makes them so appealing other than “not labour”
I know you think you have some killer arguments there, but you're going to be disappointed with the responses.
7 of the 9 things you listed can be covered by "workers rights", and a lot of people feel that worker's rights have gone too far. Up and down the country businesses are struggling because of high costs, with labour costs being a contributor to that. Unemployment is high for young people in part because recent worker's rights legislation has made it expensive to hire them. Recent "renter's rights" legislation has led to a mass exodus of landlords from the market. Fewer landlords means fewer rental properties, which means higher rental prices for those that remain.
It's obvious that you think those 9 points are all good reasons to keep Farage out. Lots of people reading your post are genuinely going to think that most of those are good reasons to vote Farage in."
By ‘a lot of people’ do you mean business owners? |
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"
By ‘a lot of people’ do you mean business owners?"
Do you think only business owners hate it when workers go on strikes all the time? Do you think only business owners hate it when the high wage laws makes it impossible to get employed? |
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"Just wondering which of reforms policies you are strongly advocating for…
Privatisation of the NHS?
Reducing statutory sick pay?
Reducing the minimum wage?
Scrapped the max 40 hour week?
Scrapping benefits for those people with “ depression”
Supporting zero hours contracts?
Scrapping rights to paternity leave?
Supporting fire and rehire?
Opposing stronger renters rights?
Just wondering what makes them so appealing other than “not labour”"
"I know you think you have some killer arguments there, but you're going to be disappointed with the responses.
7 of the 9 things you listed can be covered by "workers rights", and a lot of people feel that worker's rights have gone too far. Up and down the country businesses are struggling because of high costs, with labour costs being a contributor to that. Unemployment is high for young people in part because recent worker's rights legislation has made it expensive to hire them. Recent "renter's rights" legislation has led to a mass exodus of landlords from the market. Fewer landlords means fewer rental properties, which means higher rental prices for those that remain.
It's obvious that you think those 9 points are all good reasons to keep Farage out. Lots of people reading your post are genuinely going to think that most of those are good reasons to vote Farage in."
"By ‘a lot of people’ do you mean business owners?"
Certainly business owners, particularly small businesses, but a lot of average workers too. In the place where I work it's common to hear people complaining that some workers serve no purpose, but the company can't get rid of them. It's led to a corrosive atmosphere where good workers are demoralised and either leave, or drop their level of effort to those of the slackers.
I work in a "middle class" knowledge-based industry with a very progressive company so maybe my experience is different to yours, but I never hear people complaining that the company is exploiting the workers. I do hear a lot of complaints that some workers are exploiting the company, and that it's unfair to the others that the company can't do anything about it. |
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"
By ‘a lot of people’ do you mean business owners?
Do you think only business owners hate it when workers go on strikes all the time? Do you think only business owners hate it when the high wage laws makes it impossible to get employed?"
Do workers go on strike all the time? Even if they do then so what, is there something wrong with working together to improve their lot?
What high wage laws are you talking about? Do you think £12.71 an hour is a high wage?
Not all of us are bootlickers who think it’s more important the rich get richer, and the rest of us get to know our place. Some of us have a pair. |
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Healthy systems of activity and production are rarely composed of identical units all operating at maximum output all of the time.
.
Take a beehive for example.
.
Productivity is not perfectly uniform.
.
Different bees have different roles. Different energy states. Different ages. Different response thresholds. Different levels of activity.
.
Some constantly forage. Others remain in brood care. Some are "reserve labour" that become active when conditions require it.
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A bee colony thrives on flexibility and resilience, not non-stop maximum exertion.
.
Bees have been studied quite deeply in this regards. It was previously thought that some worker bees who were inactive for periods of time were "just lazy". Then it was late discovered that these bees act as emergency labour reserves, behaviour stabilisers, thermal regulators, or fill in when other bees die.
.
The studies concluded that a colony optimised for 100% output at all times would become fragile. Systems pushed to permanent maximum efficiency lose resilience.
.
Humans are the only animal we are aware of that "Moralise Productivity". We treat production not just as useful, but as evidence of worth or virtue. That is not a biological necessity, but a cultural one.
.
Efficiency matters. But systems that only worship efficiency undermine the very conditions that allow for long-term success.
.
The bees figured it out a long time ago. |
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"
By ‘a lot of people’ do you mean business owners?
Do you think only business owners hate it when workers go on strikes all the time? Do you think only business owners hate it when the high wage laws makes it impossible to get employed?
Do workers go on strike all the time? Even if they do then so what, is there something wrong with working together to improve their lot?
"
I was responding to your mistaken belief that only business owners are against these laws. Lots of normal people are against them too.
"
What high wage laws are you talking about? Do you think £12.71 an hour is a high wage?
"
There are some jobs which don't need these minimum wages. It has been shown repeatedly that high minimum wage laws and higher cost of employment affect employment rates of young workers.
"
Not all of us are bootlickers who think it’s more important the rich get richer, and the rest of us get to know our place. Some of us have a pair."
Of course, anyone who doesn't accept your laws blindly are bootlickers. It's this arrogance paired with zero understanding of economics and other people's views that makes the far left a miserable group to discuss politics with. |
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"
By ‘a lot of people’ do you mean business owners?
Do you think only business owners hate it when workers go on strikes all the time? Do you think only business owners hate it when the high wage laws makes it impossible to get employed?
Do workers go on strike all the time? Even if they do then so what, is there something wrong with working together to improve their lot?
I was responding to your mistaken belief that only business owners are against these laws. Lots of normal people are against them too.
What high wage laws are you talking about? Do you think £12.71 an hour is a high wage?
There are some jobs which don't need these minimum wages. It has been shown repeatedly that high minimum wage laws and higher cost of employment affect employment rates of young workers.
Not all of us are bootlickers who think it’s more important the rich get richer, and the rest of us get to know our place. Some of us have a pair.
Of course, anyone who doesn't accept your laws blindly are bootlickers. It's this arrogance paired with zero understanding of economics and other people's views that makes the far left a miserable group to discuss politics with."
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”
- Malcolm X |
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"
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
"
And I think you are a prime example of what happens when people prefer sticking to vague slogans and quotes they read on the internet that sound nice and keep repeating them instead of understanding what the practical implications of their proposed policies and making arguments based on that.
Does that make any difference? |
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"
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
And I think you are a prime example of what happens when people prefer sticking to vague slogans and quotes they read on the internet that sound nice and keep repeating them instead of understanding what the practical implications of their proposed policies and making arguments based on that.
Does that make any difference?"
Out of interest, what jobs do you think aren’t deserving of the current minimum wage, and what rate should they be paid at instead? |
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"
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
And I think you are a prime example of what happens when people prefer sticking to vague slogans and quotes they read on the internet that sound nice and keep repeating them instead of understanding what the practical implications of their proposed policies and making arguments based on that.
Does that make any difference?
Out of interest, what jobs do you think aren’t deserving of the current minimum wage, and what rate should they be paid at instead?"
One example is jobs in hospitality, restaurants and pubs. These jobs are usually done by young people to get an experience of real work.
Many of these employees are hired by small businesses. The owners aren't rich people who you claim we are all "bootlicking". Their margins are small. Forcing them to pay more means the businesses will go bust. They have been already, in the UK.
So congratulations! You screwed up the lives of businesses AND the workers who you claim to be supporting with these laws. |
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"I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights."
Nobody's talking about repealing all worker's rights, that would be a disaster. But we're now at the point where businesses are laying people off because they can't afford to keep employing them. Ask those people whether they'd prefer lower wages and fewer rights, or no job at all. |
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"
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
And I think you are a prime example of what happens when people prefer sticking to vague slogans and quotes they read on the internet that sound nice and keep repeating them instead of understanding what the practical implications of their proposed policies and making arguments based on that.
Does that make any difference?
Out of interest, what jobs do you think aren’t deserving of the current minimum wage, and what rate should they be paid at instead?
One example is jobs in hospitality, restaurants and pubs. These jobs are usually done by young people to get an experience of real work.
Many of these employees are hired by small businesses. The owners aren't rich people who you claim we are all "bootlicking". Their margins are small. Forcing them to pay more means the businesses will go bust. They have been already, in the UK.
So congratulations! You screwed up the lives of businesses AND the workers who you claim to be supporting with these laws."
So you think a waiter/waitress or a bar person doesn’t deserve to earn £12.71 an hour? Ok, any other workers who should take a pay cut, in your opinion? |
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"I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
Nobody's talking about repealing all worker's rights, that would be a disaster. But we're now at the point where businesses are laying people off because they can't afford to keep employing them. Ask those people whether they'd prefer lower wages and fewer rights, or no job at all."
Yet there are companies making bigger profits than they ever have, and are cutting staff, like Centrica, for instance. |
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"I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
Nobody's talking about repealing all worker's rights, that would be a disaster. But we're now at the point where businesses are laying people off because they can't afford to keep employing them. Ask those people whether they'd prefer lower wages and fewer rights, or no job at all.
Yet there are companies making bigger profits than they ever have, and are cutting staff, like Centrica, for instance."
Unfortunately the laws you are asking for, apply to all the companies, not just the few businesses you hate.
While you think you have successfully put those rich corporations on a leash and celebrate that, the small businesses go under. These kind of laws are actually easy for the big businesses to comply with. It's usually the small ones who get hit hard and obviously the employees who lose their jobs because of this. |
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"
So you think a waiter/waitress or a bar person doesn’t deserve to earn £12.71 an hour? Ok, any other workers who should take a pay cut, in your opinion?"
So you think that the small pubs do not deserve to run? You see, both of us can make such lame strawman arguments.
I am saying that as long as the business can find people who are willing to do the job for lower cost, they should be. In some cases, the eventual wages are many times higher than the minimum wage you are proposing. In some cases, it goes lower than that. |
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"
So you think a waiter/waitress or a bar person doesn’t deserve to earn £12.71 an hour? Ok, any other workers who should take a pay cut, in your opinion?
So you think that the small pubs do not deserve to run? You see, both of us can make such lame strawman arguments.
I am saying that as long as the business can find people who are willing to do the job for lower cost, they should be. In some cases, the eventual wages are many times higher than the minimum wage you are proposing. In some cases, it goes lower than that."
So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
Any other protections for workers you think she be got rid of? |
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"So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?"
The alternative is to keep the minimum wage where it is and see people laid off. Which is more costly to the Universal Credit budget, a worker with low pay needing a top-up, or a worker with no job needing everything to be paid for? |
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"
So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
"
There are numerous countries which don't have minimum wage. They are actually doing better than the UK.
"
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
"
It would go down as this will improve the economy. More businesses, more job opportunities.
"
Any other protections for workers you think she be got rid of?"
If leaving workers jobless is what counts as "protections" for workers, I guess that would be enough.
If anything, I am the one who is pro worker rights here. Not you. |
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"So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
The alternative is to keep the minimum wage where it is and see people laid off. Which is more costly to the Universal Credit budget, a worker with low pay needing a top-up, or a worker with no job needing everything to be paid for?"
Is that like when they said there would be massive job losses when the minimum wage was brought in? Except that’s not what happened. |
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"
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
And I think you are a prime example of what happens when people prefer sticking to vague slogans and quotes they read on the internet that sound nice and keep repeating them instead of understanding what the practical implications of their proposed policies and making arguments based on that.
Does that make any difference?
Out of interest, what jobs do you think aren’t deserving of the current minimum wage, and what rate should they be paid at instead?
One example is jobs in hospitality, restaurants and pubs. These jobs are usually done by young people to get an experience of real work.
Many of these employees are hired by small businesses. The owners aren't rich people who you claim we are all "bootlicking". Their margins are small. Forcing them to pay more means the businesses will go bust. They have been already, in the UK.
So congratulations! You screwed up the lives of businesses AND the workers who you claim to be supporting with these laws."
What age do you class as young? |
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"
I think you’re a prime of example of what happens when, as a society, we become far too removed from times when we didn’t have worker’s rights.
And I think you are a prime example of what happens when people prefer sticking to vague slogans and quotes they read on the internet that sound nice and keep repeating them instead of understanding what the practical implications of their proposed policies and making arguments based on that.
Does that make any difference?
Out of interest, what jobs do you think aren’t deserving of the current minimum wage, and what rate should they be paid at instead?
One example is jobs in hospitality, restaurants and pubs. These jobs are usually done by young people to get an experience of real work.
Many of these employees are hired by small businesses. The owners aren't rich people who you claim we are all "bootlicking". Their margins are small. Forcing them to pay more means the businesses will go bust. They have been already, in the UK.
So congratulations! You screwed up the lives of businesses AND the workers who you claim to be supporting with these laws.
What age do you class as young?"
People who are in the university or fresh out of it. |
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"
So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
There are numerous countries which don't have minimum wage. They are actually doing better than the UK.
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
It would go down as this will improve the economy. More businesses, more job opportunities.
Any other protections for workers you think she be got rid of?
If leaving workers jobless is what counts as "protections" for workers, I guess that would be enough.
If anything, I am the one who is pro worker rights here. Not you."
Pro workers rights? You seem to want to take us back to Victorian times, when all the power lay with the business owners.
A third of the people who receive UC are employed, they just don’t earn enough. Reduce wages and you will just have more people claiming UC to top up their earnings.
Capitalists aren’t known for their commitment to the wellbeing of their employees, they’re in it for the money and they will use any opportunity to exploit labour. |
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"
Pro workers rights? You seem to want to take us back to Victorian times, when all the power lay with the business owners.
"
You are the one who seems to want to take us back to Victorian times by making everyone jobless and all small businesses going under, while the big businesses you pretend to hate end up becoming monopolies.
If I want to spend some free time I had by working for a small pub, even if they couldn't pay the minimum wage, I should have the right to work. Unfortunately, you and the other socialists come out of nowhere and tell me that it's illegal for me to do that. You are the one who is actually taking away the rights.
"
A third of the people who receive UC are employed, they just don’t earn enough. Reduce wages and you will just have more people claiming UC to top up their earnings.
"
I don't think the government should pay UC for the employed. Remove it and reduce the taxes. Wages will go up.
"
Capitalists aren’t known for their commitment to the wellbeing of their employees, they’re in it for the money and they will use any opportunity to exploit labour."
Unlike the socialists who killed tens of millions of people by starving them to death or murdering them? Yeah sure  |
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"
Pro workers rights? You seem to want to take us back to Victorian times, when all the power lay with the business owners.
You are the one who seems to want to take us back to Victorian times by making everyone jobless and all small businesses going under, while the big businesses you pretend to hate end up becoming monopolies.
If I want to spend some free time I had by working for a small pub, even if they couldn't pay the minimum wage, I should have the right to work. Unfortunately, you and the other socialists come out of nowhere and tell me that it's illegal for me to do that. You are the one who is actually taking away the rights.
A third of the people who receive UC are employed, they just don’t earn enough. Reduce wages and you will just have more people claiming UC to top up their earnings.
I don't think the government should pay UC for the employed. Remove it and reduce the taxes. Wages will go up.
Capitalists aren’t known for their commitment to the wellbeing of their employees, they’re in it for the money and they will use any opportunity to exploit labour.
Unlike the socialists who killed tens of millions of people by starving them to death or murdering them? Yeah sure "
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way? |
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"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists? "
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people? |
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"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?"
The societies they were governing weren't communist. They were socialist. Maybe you should read some books about the very ideology you claim to support before lecturing others on reading? |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
A third of the people who receive UC are employed, they just don’t earn enough. Reduce wages and you will just have more people claiming UC to top up their earnings.
I don't think the government should pay UC for the employed. Remove it and reduce the taxes. Wages will go up.
"
Just wanted to clip this bit to point out something…. Probably the obvious
If someone is getting a UC top up for employment, they are likely not paying any or very very little tax or NI… so if you are not going to give any UC money to someone employed, the only people losing out are the employees!
Why would an employer pay more to cover.. there is no incentive to now, and there would be no more if you removed in effect the artificial floor .. which is the top up!
Sorry.. you also wanted the floor of the minimum wage… so double whammy |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
|
"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?"
Mao in his own words:
“In China the struggle to consolidate the socialist system, the struggle to decide whether socialism or capitalism will prevail, will still take a long historical period. However, we should all realize that the new system of socialism will unquestionably be consolidated. We can assuredly build a socialist state with modern industry, modern agriculture, and modern science and culture.”
The Khmer Rouge officially pursued a “socialist revolution and the building of socialism”.
Stalin in his own words:
“After consolidating its power and leading the peasantry in its wake the proletariat of the victorious country can and must build a socialist society”.
|
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"
A third of the people who receive UC are employed, they just don’t earn enough. Reduce wages and you will just have more people claiming UC to top up their earnings.
I don't think the government should pay UC for the employed. Remove it and reduce the taxes. Wages will go up.
Just wanted to clip this bit to point out something…. Probably the obvious
"
What you are pointing out is not just not obvious. It's outright wrong.
"
If someone is getting a UC top up for employment, they are likely not paying any or very very little tax or NI… so if you are not going to give any UC money to someone employed, the only people losing out are the employees!
"
That's not how it works. Businesses pay lower wages because they know that the employees will be topped up with UC. End of the day, wages are a contract negotiated between an employee and an employer. You take away the UC, the employee wouldn't work if they feel that the money isn't enough to work and they will refuse to take up the job because there is literally no point.
This is one of the things where the British politicians have screwed up the country by becoming a nanny state. There are numerous countries around the world where the governments don't do this and people are paid good wages.
|
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"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?
Mao in his own words:
“In China the struggle to consolidate the socialist system, the struggle to decide whether socialism or capitalism will prevail, will still take a long historical period. However, we should all realize that the new system of socialism will unquestionably be consolidated. We can assuredly build a socialist state with modern industry, modern agriculture, and modern science and culture.”
The Khmer Rouge officially pursued a “socialist revolution and the building of socialism”.
Stalin in his own words:
“After consolidating its power and leading the peasantry in its wake the proletariat of the victorious country can and must build a socialist society”.
"
It's the usual "But that's not real socialism", "But that's not real communism" argument. If Marx was alive today, he wouldn't have liked the modern day leftists at all  |
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"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?
The societies they were governing weren't communist. They were socialist. Maybe you should read some books about the very ideology you claim to support before lecturing others on reading?"
First of all, I don’t support socialism in It’s pure state, I support the use of socialist ideas and policies to temper the negative excesses of capitalism.
Secondly, if you really think Mao and Stalin weren’t presiding over communist regimes, then I don’t have enough time, or crayons, to put you right.
I can suggest a couple of books if you’d like though? |
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By (user no longer on site) 3 weeks ago
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You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?"
Of all the Prime Ministers I have lived through in my lifetime Starmer is the one I can most readily see standing on a railway sideline directing people to get onto trains headed for concentration camps.
He very much has that Eichmann vibe. A dull soulless insignificant little bureaucrat who thinks that following the process he has been given by his superiors is the path to a greater good and indifferent to any human suffering. |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
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A third of the people who receive UC are employed, they just don’t earn enough. Reduce wages and you will just have more people claiming UC to top up their earnings.
I don't think the government should pay UC for the employed. Remove it and reduce the taxes. Wages will go up.
Just wanted to clip this bit to point out something…. Probably the obvious
What you are pointing out is not just not obvious. It's outright wrong.
If someone is getting a UC top up for employment, they are likely not paying any or very very little tax or NI… so if you are not going to give any UC money to someone employed, the only people losing out are the employees!
That's not how it works. Businesses pay lower wages because they know that the employees will be topped up with UC. End of the day, wages are a contract negotiated between an employee and an employer. You take away the UC, the employee wouldn't work if they feel that the money isn't enough to work and they will refuse to take up the job because there is literally no point.
This is one of the things where the British politicians have screwed up the country by becoming a nanny state. There are numerous countries around the world where the governments don't do this and people are paid good wages.
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So you are saying employers pay less because they know the government will top it up… but then you are also saying the minimum wage is too high… those don’t square!
So where is the incentive for employers to pay more? |
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"
So you are saying employers pay less because they know the government will top it up… but then you are also saying the minimum wage is too high… those don’t square!
"
Because different jobs have different wages. Some jobs can be done by people who are just looking for a temporary or side gig without any training. These jobs don't need training. Both the employer and employee are happy with the wages and in many cases the wages are below minimum wage.
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So where is the incentive for employers to pay more? "
You just have the numerous other countries in Europe which don't have minimum wage and they don't top up salaries either. Even the Scandinavian countries that the left likes to rave about.
Get rid of minimum wage, stop paying UC for people in jobs and reduce taxes for businesses. Things will fall in place. |
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oooo, fab far righty willy waving virtue signalling about socialism whilst ignoring the fact that capitalism killed an estimated 13 million during transatlantic sl@ve trading alone, and that's aside from the many many millions killed by hitler (godwins law noted), mussolini, franco, pinochet, suharto, putin etc etc
checkmate ♟️ |
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"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?
The societies they were governing weren't communist. They were socialist. Maybe you should read some books about the very ideology you claim to support before lecturing others on reading?
Secondly, if you really think Mao and Stalin weren’t presiding over communist regimes, then I don’t have enough time, or crayons, to put you right.
I can suggest a couple of books if you’d like though?"
This post just shows that you have never read a single book on this topic. Usually it's the Americans who make mistakes in use of the terminology around socialism. But here you are.
Communism - A society where there is no private property, no money. Everything is owned by the community. Marxism is not the only way to communism. There is even Christian communism - A few Christian communes live that way.
Socialism - Using the government to redistribute wealth. There are many ways the government uses to redistribute wealth and there are many levels to it.
Marxism - Marx's blueprint to reach communism. He says there is an intermediate stage where workers seize the means of production.
The societies under Stalin and Mao weren't communist though they were the stated goal. They were socialist. They were following Marx's blueprint while facing the problems Marx didn't talk about.
Both the societies had public ownership on steroids. They were socialist, whether you like it or not.
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First of all, I don’t support socialism in It’s pure state, I support the use of socialist ideas and policies to temper the negative excesses of capitalism.
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And I don't like capitalism in its pure state either. But this country has implemented badly devised socialist ideas. |
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"
You really do need to read a history book or 9. When did socialists kill tens of millions, by the way?
Stalin and Mao aren't socialists?
No, they were (they’re dead) Communists. Now again, could you tell me when socialists have killed tens of millions of people?
The societies they were governing weren't communist. They were socialist. Maybe you should read some books about the very ideology you claim to support before lecturing others on reading?
Secondly, if you really think Mao and Stalin weren’t presiding over communist regimes, then I don’t have enough time, or crayons, to put you right.
I can suggest a couple of books if you’d like though?
This post just shows that you have never read a single book on this topic. Usually it's the Americans who make mistakes in use of the terminology around socialism. But here you are.
Communism - A society where there is no private property, no money. Everything is owned by the community. Marxism is not the only way to communism. There is even Christian communism - A few Christian communes live that way.
Socialism - Using the government to redistribute wealth. There are many ways the government uses to redistribute wealth and there are many levels to it.
Marxism - Marx's blueprint to reach communism. He says there is an intermediate stage where workers seize the means of production.
The societies under Stalin and Mao weren't communist though they were the stated goal. They were socialist. They were following Marx's blueprint while facing the problems Marx didn't talk about.
Both the societies had public ownership on steroids. They were socialist, whether you like it or not.
First of all, I don’t support socialism in It’s pure state, I support the use of socialist ideas and policies to temper the negative excesses of capitalism.
And I don't like capitalism in its pure state either. But this country has implemented badly devised socialist ideas."
Oh bless, you’ve discovered Chat GPT.
Mao, and Stalin, were Communists, their regimes were Communist regimes. As Chat GPT has correctly informed you their stated goals were Communist societies.
They were Communists.
The societies they presided over may well have been to some extent socialist in methodology but the regimes, and intentions were communist.
The societies didn’t kill people, the regimes did. |
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"
So you are saying employers pay less because they know the government will top it up… but then you are also saying the minimum wage is too high… those don’t square!
Because different jobs have different wages. Some jobs can be done by people who are just looking for a temporary or side gig without any training. These jobs don't need training. Both the employer and employee are happy with the wages and in many cases the wages are below minimum wage.
So where is the incentive for employers to pay more?
You just have the numerous other countries in Europe which don't have minimum wage and they don't top up salaries either. Even the Scandinavian countries that the left likes to rave about.
Get rid of minimum wage, stop paying UC for people in jobs and reduce taxes for businesses. Things will fall in place."
Would you prefer the Nordic model to what we currently have?
|
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"So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?"
"The alternative is to keep the minimum wage where it is and see people laid off. Which is more costly to the Universal Credit budget, a worker with low pay needing a top-up, or a worker with no job needing everything to be paid for?"
"Is that like when they said there would be massive job losses when the minimum wage was brought in? Except that’s not what happened."
It's not like that, because it's actually happened. The minimum wage was increased, and unemployment has gone up. UK general unemployment is at 4.9%, but the unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds is 15.8%. |
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Mao, and Stalin, were Communists, their regimes were Communist regimes. As Chat GPT has correctly informed you their stated goals were Communist societies.
"
Which part of my post makes it look like ChatGPT. Unlike you, I have read books about your ideology. I have even read the "The History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" by Stalin and that's where most of my understanding comes from.
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They were Communists.
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Communism is the stated end-goal for all these parties. But as always, they were stuck in socialism. Their societies were socialist. How can you call their societies communist if the people still had private property and money? That goes against the basic definition of communism.
Not really surprising though as you aren't the first armchair leftist on the internet who doesn't even know what communism means.
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The societies they presided over may well have been to some extent socialist in methodology but the regimes, and intentions were communist.
"
You will be judged based on your actions and results, not your words. These parties talking a lot about communism doesn't imply they were really striving towards communism. They were having socialism on steroids which resulted in poverty that killed millions of people. Of course people weren't happy and the governments had to double down by using authoritarianism and ended up killing many.
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The societies didn’t kill people, the regimes did."
Well, capitalism also didn't make the workers suffer, the business owners did. Will you accept that argument? |
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"unemployment has gone up. UK general unemployment is at 4.9%, but the unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds is 15.8%."
one in eight young people (16 to 24) in UK not in education, employment, or training (NEET).
770,000 of them, highest in a decade and above EU average. It can’t be Brexit, how has this happened. |
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"
Mao, and Stalin, were Communists, their regimes were Communist regimes. As Chat GPT has correctly informed you their stated goals were Communist societies.
Which part of my post makes it look like ChatGPT. Unlike you, I have read books about your ideology. I have even read the "The History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union" by Stalin and that's where most of my understanding comes from.
They were Communists.
Communism is the stated end-goal for all these parties. But as always, they were stuck in socialism. Their societies were socialist. How can you call their societies communist if the people still had private property and money? That goes against the basic definition of communism.
Not really surprising though as you aren't the first armchair leftist on the internet who doesn't even know what communism means.
The societies they presided over may well have been to some extent socialist in methodology but the regimes, and intentions were communist.
You will be judged based on your actions and results, not your words. These parties talking a lot about communism doesn't imply they were really striving towards communism. They were having socialism on steroids which resulted in poverty that killed millions of people. Of course people weren't happy and the governments had to double down by using authoritarianism and ended up killing many.
The societies didn’t kill people, the regimes did.
Well, capitalism also didn't make the workers suffer, the business owners did. Will you accept that argument?"
Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you really not getting it?
Mussolini was a fascist before he seized control of Italy, and Italy was never a fully fascistic society. But that doesn’t mean Mussolini wasn’t a fascist.
Your contention is that socialists killed tens of millions, they didn’t. Communists did. |
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"
So you are saying employers pay less because they know the government will top it up… but then you are also saying the minimum wage is too high… those don’t square!
Because different jobs have different wages. Some jobs can be done by people who are just looking for a temporary or side gig without any training. These jobs don't need training. Both the employer and employee are happy with the wages and in many cases the wages are below minimum wage.
So where is the incentive for employers to pay more?
You just have the numerous other countries in Europe which don't have minimum wage and they don't top up salaries either. Even the Scandinavian countries that the left likes to rave about.
Get rid of minimum wage, stop paying UC for people in jobs and reduce taxes for businesses. Things will fall in place.
Would you prefer the Nordic model to what we currently have?
"
Sure, but only if you know what Nordic model means. A system everyone pays high taxes. Not just "those rich people". Low business taxes. No minimum wages. And an immigration system that Denmark followed and Sweden recently adapted. |
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Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you really not getting it?
Mussolini was a fascist before he seized control of Italy, and Italy was never a fully fascistic society. But that doesn’t mean Mussolini wasn’t a fascist.
"
What does Mussolini have anything to do with what I said. You people keep claiming that capitalism is responsible for Victorian era conditions of even sl&very. And yet, when I pointed out what socialism did, you defended socialism by claiming that it was the communists who did it. Well then I can also claim that it's some rich people who were responsible for the other issues and not capitalism.
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Your contention is that socialists killed tens of millions, they didn’t. Communists did."
The 1930 famine that killed over 8 million people was caused because the government started enforcing its centralised planning system and took ownership of agricultural land.
It's this socialist policy that resulted in millions of deaths. When the government takes ownership of something like steel industry or transport, its inefficiencies aren't usually fatal. But when socialism expanded to food production, it ended up killing millions. It's socialism on steroids that killed those people. |
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By *I TwoCouple 3 weeks ago
near enough |
"So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
The alternative is to keep the minimum wage where it is and see people laid off. Which is more costly to the Universal Credit budget, a worker with low pay needing a top-up, or a worker with no job needing everything to be paid for?
Is that like when they said there would be massive job losses when the minimum wage was brought in? Except that’s not what happened.
It's not like that, because it's actually happened. The minimum wage was increased, and unemployment has gone up. UK general unemployment is at 4.9%, but the unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds is 15.8%."
Absolutely agree with that
Who wants a spotty teenager that spends half the day on Instagram or whatever for the same price they can get a hard working experienced person.
Why does a kid with no responsibilities have to earn the same as a person with a mortgage and a few kids.
Why does an immigrant get the same when it's 10x or more their earnings at home and they send most of it back home
It's just wrong |
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By *abioMan 3 weeks ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
The alternative is to keep the minimum wage where it is and see people laid off. Which is more costly to the Universal Credit budget, a worker with low pay needing a top-up, or a worker with no job needing everything to be paid for?
Is that like when they said there would be massive job losses when the minimum wage was brought in? Except that’s not what happened.
It's not like that, because it's actually happened. The minimum wage was increased, and unemployment has gone up. UK general unemployment is at 4.9%, but the unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds is 15.8%.
Absolutely agree with that
Who wants a spotty teenager that spends half the day on Instagram or whatever for the same price they can get a hard working experienced person.
Why does a kid with no responsibilities have to earn the same as a person with a mortgage and a few kids.
Why does an immigrant get the same when it's 10x or more their earnings at home and they send most of it back home
It's just wrong "
I mean using that logic I could argue why would you pay a woman the same as a man! After all, women are likely to take time out of employment looking after children …..
Am I right?
And disabled people … you are honestly doing them a favour by employing them! Pay them less as well!
I wonder if sometimes people actually listen to themselves!  |
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"So you think we should get rid of the minimum wage and engage in a race to the bottom?
What do you think that would do to the Universal Credit bill?
The alternative is to keep the minimum wage where it is and see people laid off. Which is more costly to the Universal Credit budget, a worker with low pay needing a top-up, or a worker with no job needing everything to be paid for?
Is that like when they said there would be massive job losses when the minimum wage was brought in? Except that’s not what happened.
It's not like that, because it's actually happened. The minimum wage was increased, and unemployment has gone up. UK general unemployment is at 4.9%, but the unemployment rate for 16-24 year olds is 15.8%.
Absolutely agree with that
Who wants a spotty teenager that spends half the day on Instagram or whatever for the same price they can get a hard working experienced person.
Why does a kid with no responsibilities have to earn the same as a person with a mortgage and a few kids.
Why does an immigrant get the same when it's 10x or more their earnings at home and they send most of it back home
It's just wrong "
Yeah, you tell 'em! Get them back down the pits or into the factories for next to nothing. There's always the poor house if they can't cope. |
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Why do right wing posters jump on the ‘socialism’ train to stick the boot in on anybody economically left of centre?
There is such a concept as Social Democracy that has done ok on occasions.
Look at FDR, probably the most ‘left wing’ US president ever….and elected to four terms no less on the back of Capitalist failures. |
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"Why do right wing posters jump on the ‘socialism’ train to stick the boot in on anybody economically left of centre?
"
I was responding to a post that said capitalism if evil. My point was that taken to the extremes, both are evil. |
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By *abioMan 4 days ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Reform is repulsive and makes me gag, not in a good way. 
Apparently Reform is quite popular with union members.
I’m in Unite and I support Reform."
Which is actually quite ironic since reform are actually looking at weakening union and workers rights…. |
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