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A second referendum to rejoin eu.
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By *hagTonight OP Man 1 week ago
From the land of haribos. |
Continue here, it was interesting to see the replies. If there was a 2nd referendum to rejoin the eu, what do you think the outcome would be, especially now how we knew how they lied in order to win it in the first place, do you think that many would change their mind?
I read an interesting poll on ukgov and a recent poll it would suggest so, it found that 63% would vote to rejoin the eu, not just that, but it also found that it rises to 83% with 16-25 year olds. I think that sends a signal that people want to rejoin.
It would be interesting to see what your view about it is and the high figures to rejoin, do you think brexit was a good idea or a big mistake and if the brexit would be conducted rightly would they have won it?
I agree with the recent poll suggesting that people want to rejoin and I think that as I mentioned above that how brexit was based on a lie, if it was legit in the first place I dont think they would of won it  |
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"Continue here, it was interesting to see the replies. If there was a 2nd referendum to rejoin the eu, what do you think the outcome would be, especially now how we knew how they lied in order to win it in the first place, do you think that many would change their mind?
I read an interesting poll on ukgov and a recent poll it would suggest so, it found that 63% would vote to rejoin the eu, not just that, but it also found that it rises to 83% with 16-25 year olds. I think that sends a signal that people want to rejoin.
It would be interesting to see what your view about it is and the high figures to rejoin, do you think brexit was a good idea or a big mistake and if the brexit would be conducted rightly would they have won it?
I agree with the recent poll suggesting that people want to rejoin and I think that as I mentioned above that how brexit was based on a lie, if it was legit in the first place I dont think they would of won it "
Have you any data on how the EU members would vote on wether the allow the UK to re-enter ? |
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"Sadly, it wouldn't be a quick process to rejoin  . "
If the UK's finances became so bad that the IMF had to bail us out (again), I wonder if they could make rejoining a condition of any financial support?
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Rejoin with or without freedom of movement of people?
The EU should’ve been about trade and import/export etc.
They thought people moving between countries without any work permits or anything needed was some kind of equality utopia!
It wasn’t!
Rejoin under the exact same T&Cs would eventually have a similar result. |
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"Rejoin with or without freedom of movement of people?
The EU should’ve been about trade and import/export etc.
They thought people moving between countries without any work permits or anything needed was some kind of equality utopia!
It wasn’t!
Rejoin under the exact same T&Cs would eventually have a similar result."
It was actually the UK and France which brought about the single market under Thatcher's period in Government, between 1985 and when it came into force in 1993.
Basically it was to overcome protectionist policies by individual countries. For example Germany banned importing Jaguar XJSs over made up safety issues because of pressure from BMW.
The four freedoms of the Single Market are free movement of goods, services, capital and movement.
Thatcher realised that in order to retain influence and remain competitive in a global economy Europe had to get together and act as one powerful trading block. In my view she was right.
Whether you can separate free movement of trade and services from the free movement of people supporting those goods and services, as you suggest is a question, but why would you set up a business in Poland if you could be prevented from going there? Of course the vice versa is one of the reasons why European investment into the UK has slumped, whilst Ireland has boomed.
Finally we still need foreign workers to support many of our services especially health and social care. Rather than using often temporary single Europeans who stayed a few years, the Conservatives allowed millions of immigrants and their dependants from non-European countries permanent settlement. Some are poorly educated speak little English and are subsidised by the State.
That was a UK decision and nothing to do with the EU. |
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So, essentially Mr B Shoulders, now the British serfs have had enough of piss poor wages etc, we should continue to send for the foreign serfs instead?
This notion that ‘we need’ foreign workers is essentially part of the dogmatic mindset that led to brexit in the first place.
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
"
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you.... |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you...."
770,000 NEET 16-24’s unemployed
reported this week to increase your 1,250,000
dwarfs 171k immigration |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you...."
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road. |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road."
A generation or two of austerity, going without the obsession with growth might go some way towards regaining sanity. |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you...."
Who would you see exploited without foreigners there to do your bidding for poverty wages? |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road.
A generation or two of austerity, going without the obsession with growth might go some way towards regaining sanity."
In an economy where loads of people can’t afford to move out of their parents house, and those who do are stuck renting, more austerity is not going to lead to a higher birth rate. |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road.
A generation or two of austerity, going without the obsession with growth might go some way towards regaining sanity.
In an economy where loads of people can’t afford to move out of their parents house, and those who do are stuck renting, more austerity is not going to lead to a higher birth rate."
I don't think he or I said anything about increasing birth rates. Even giving out free money isn't going to increase birth rates. If anything, the richer people and richer countries tend to have lower birth rates.
Instead, we should try to adapt to the reality of a society with lower birth rates. |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
770,000 NEET 16-24’s unemployed
reported this week to increase your 1,250,000
dwarfs 171k immigration "
So why have we so many NEETs but immigrants find work (apparently)?
Minimum wage applies to all, but for under 22s employers don't pay NI, rising to 25 for apprenticeships. |
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"
I don't think he or I said anything about increasing birth rates. Even giving out free money isn't going to increase birth rates. If anything, the richer people and richer countries tend to have lower birth rates.
Instead, we should try to adapt to the reality of a society with lower birth rates."
Thank you! |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Who would you see exploited without foreigners there to do your bidding for poverty wages?"
I wondered if you might have actually come up with anything positive?
That is why we have a minimum wage, which Labour has increased.
I can remember the discrimination against the Irish in the early 1960's because my mother was Irish, apparently stealing all our jobs for lower pay. We still allow Freedom of Movement with Ireland. Presumably you would like that now banned as well?
|
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road."
As it's basically a Ponzi system, kicking the can down the road only makes the can bigger and even more of a problem. |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road.
As it's basically a Ponzi system, kicking the can down the road only makes the can bigger and even more of a problem."
Yes you can argue that and I wouldn't disagree. But what are the alternatives? What are other solutions to an increasing elderly/inactive population with a declining workforce?
Force NEETs and others to do work they don't want to do?
Stop the NHS trying to keep everyone alive forever?
Let Covid/viruses do what nature intended and cull the elderly and weak?
Start a war and kill 100,000s?
Ban contraception?
Allow assisted dying for those that wish?
Are these possible alternatives better or worse than controlled immigration? |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road.
As it's basically a Ponzi system, kicking the can down the road only makes the can bigger and even more of a problem.
Yes you can argue that and I wouldn't disagree. But what are the alternatives? What are other solutions to an increasing elderly/inactive population with a declining workforce?
Force NEETs and others to do work they don't want to do?
Stop the NHS trying to keep everyone alive forever?
Let Covid/viruses do what nature intended and cull the elderly and weak?
Start a war and kill 100,000s?
Ban contraception?
Allow assisted dying for those that wish?
Are these possible alternatives better or worse than controlled immigration?"
Invest more in automation. Doesn't solve the problem completely but it alleviates it to an extent. And people need to know that labour shortage is a problem. Maybe that will motivate them to make healthy lifestyle choices or even having kids.
The whole immigration solution isn't scalable at all. Eastern Europe's birthrates have also declined by a lot. Even India's birth rates went below replacement rates a few years back.
It is a shitty situation to be in. But it's always better to face up to the challenge than trying to cover it up using ponzi schemes.
|
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Who would you see exploited without foreigners there to do your bidding for poverty wages?
I wondered if you might have actually come up with anything positive?
That is why we have a minimum wage, which Labour has increased.
I can remember the discrimination against the Irish in the early 1960's because my mother was Irish, apparently stealing all our jobs for lower pay. We still allow Freedom of Movement with Ireland. Presumably you would like that now banned as well?
"
Mr Shoulders, do you live on minimum wage? |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road.
As it's basically a Ponzi system, kicking the can down the road only makes the can bigger and even more of a problem.
Yes you can argue that and I wouldn't disagree. But what are the alternatives? What are other solutions to an increasing elderly/inactive population with a declining workforce?
Force NEETs and others to do work they don't want to do?
Stop the NHS trying to keep everyone alive forever?
Let Covid/viruses do what nature intended and cull the elderly and weak?
Start a war and kill 100,000s?
Ban contraception?
Allow assisted dying for those that wish?
Are these possible alternatives better or worse than controlled immigration?
Invest more in automation. Doesn't solve the problem completely but it alleviates it to an extent. And people need to know that labour shortage is a problem. Maybe that will motivate them to make healthy lifestyle choices or even having kids.
The whole immigration solution isn't scalable at all. Eastern Europe's birthrates have also declined by a lot. Even India's birth rates went below replacement rates a few years back.
It is a shitty situation to be in. But it's always better to face up to the challenge than trying to cover it up using ponzi schemes.
"
I think Japan are going heavily into automation as their situation is even worse. It's a common problem but trying to solve it by increasing the very thing that's causing the problem is proving, unsurprisingly, not to work |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
Immigration isn't a solution for that either. You are only kicking the can down the road.
As it's basically a Ponzi system, kicking the can down the road only makes the can bigger and even more of a problem.
Yes you can argue that and I wouldn't disagree. But what are the alternatives? What are other solutions to an increasing elderly/inactive population with a declining workforce?
Force NEETs and others to do work they don't want to do?
Stop the NHS trying to keep everyone alive forever?
Let Covid/viruses do what nature intended and cull the elderly and weak?
Start a war and kill 100,000s?
Ban contraception?
Allow assisted dying for those that wish?
Are these possible alternatives better or worse than controlled immigration?
Invest more in automation. Doesn't solve the problem completely but it alleviates it to an extent. And people need to know that labour shortage is a problem. Maybe that will motivate them to make healthy lifestyle choices or even having kids.
The whole immigration solution isn't scalable at all. Eastern Europe's birthrates have also declined by a lot. Even India's birth rates went below replacement rates a few years back.
It is a shitty situation to be in. But it's always better to face up to the challenge than trying to cover it up using ponzi schemes.
I think Japan are going heavily into automation as their situation is even worse. It's a common problem but trying to solve it by increasing the very thing that's causing the problem is proving, unsurprisingly, not to work "
Yeah Japan has been leading in robotics and automation for this reason. I even saw news about them using robots to clean up train tracks. I also read somewhere that UK ranks way below amongst all developed countries when it comes to amount of work being automated. |
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They wouldn't give people a choice, it kind of reveals that they don't have a choice when the powers that be gerrymander, sabotage, and delay.
Also, fun y how we need to leave the ECHR to effectively deport illegals, yet the EU have just passed laws allowing overseas deportation centres...
All of this is an illusion to keep you distracted. You don't have a choice without using physical force, and until you do you'll do and get exactly what is decided for you. |
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"
No country should need immigrants simply to prop up a rather rubbish job sector!
With the UK birth rate at 1.41, below natural sustainability levels and an aging population how exactly can this be supported without immigration?
Over to you....
770,000 NEET 16-24’s unemployed
reported this week to increase your 1,250,000
dwarfs 171k immigration
So why have we so many NEETs but immigrants find work (apparently)?
Minimum wage applies to all, but for under 22s employers don't pay NI, rising to 25 for apprenticeships."
Poor / Wroung education too much emphasis on degree's and not enough on apprenticeship and at work traning, meaning too meany leving education in debt and to old to be told what to do in the workplace. |
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"Continue here, it was interesting to see the replies. If there was a 2nd referendum to rejoin the eu, what do you think the outcome would be, especially now how we knew how they lied in order to win it in the first place, do you think that many would change their mind?
I read an interesting poll on ukgov and a recent poll it would suggest so, it found that 63% would vote to rejoin the eu, not just that, but it also found that it rises to 83% with 16-25 year olds. I think that sends a signal that people want to rejoin.
It would be interesting to see what your view about it is and the high figures to rejoin, do you think brexit was a good idea or a big mistake and if the brexit would be conducted rightly would they have won it?
I agree with the recent poll suggesting that people want to rejoin and I think that as I mentioned above that how brexit was based on a lie, if it was legit in the first place I dont think they would of won it "
To get back on point how would still vote back in to the EU if they insisted the UK adopted the € |
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