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The "Labour" party
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After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
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I think the Labour Party has always been a front for some whack-job activists’ hard left agenda.
They use working people as easy votes and throw benefit money at them to keep them happy.
They’ve picked up along the way middle class public sector workers with money and the trans mafia.
They all deserve each other. |
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"I love the loose use of neoliberalism as the reason for all the wrongs in the world.
Tax wealth 🤡"
Depends on one's definition of "neoliberalism". I have seen both C
conservatives and the socialists criticise it.
People attribute one or more of globalisation, cheap immigrant labour, government bailout of businesses, cronyism and privatisation of public infrastructure to neoliberalism, depending on their own political inclination and bash the ideology for that reason.
At this point, I don't even know what the term means really.
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Which Labour Party are you talking about OP? There have been lots of different Labour Parties.
The one that broke the Tory/Liberal duopoly in 1924 would be unrecognisable to the one that was dominated by identity politics in the 2020s. The one that created the Welfare state post 1945 would be unrecognisable from the Blair/Brown one that invaded Iraq and broke the financial system in 2008. |
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"I love the loose use of neoliberalism as the reason for all the wrongs in the world.
Tax wealth 🤡
Depends on one's definition of "neoliberalism". I have seen both C
conservatives and the socialists criticise it.
People attribute one or more of globalisation, cheap immigrant labour, government bailout of businesses, cronyism and privatisation of public infrastructure to neoliberalism, depending on their own political inclination and bash the ideology for that reason.
At this point, I don't even know what the term means really.
"
And that is exactly my point  It has become a strapline to get behind because… and that’s where any explanation ends and “tax wealth” or any other ideological mantra begins. |
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It has not always been as supportive as it should but if you believe any other party would have given us the NHS,welfare state,minimum wages,equal pay,human rights, workers rights,open University, Devolution,banned zero hour contracts,ended no fault evictions. If you compare that to every list of the Conservative party and its help for the workers it will not compare. |
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"It has not always been as supportive as it should but if you believe any other party would have given us the NHS,welfare state,minimum wages,equal pay,human rights, workers rights,open University, Devolution,banned zero hour contracts,ended no fault evictions. If you compare that to every list of the Conservative party and its help for the workers it will not compare."
Zero hour contracts aren't being banned.
ECHR was ratified by Churchill. |
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"ECHR was ratified by Churchill."
A lot of talk about how the ECHR stops the UK deporting folk, yet the EU has passed laws to allow off-shore detainment and processing centres for migrants. Just goes to show its all bollox. |
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"ECHR was ratified by Churchill.
A lot of talk about how the ECHR stops the UK deporting folk, yet the EU has passed laws to allow off-shore detainment and processing centres for migrants. Just goes to show its all bollox."
Only if you willfully ignore the facts.
Firstly, when most folk talk about deportation they mean sending someone permanently back home (or at least somewhere else). The new EU laws only allow member countries to send asylum seekers to a housing facility whilst their claim is being processed. If their claim is successful they have to be allowed back into the EU.
Secondly, in a lot of cases folks taking about deportation of foreigners are talking about getting rid of criminal elements who have been here a while. The new EU laws only apply to new arrivals that have claimed asylum. |
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"After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
"
The Trade Unions founded the Labour Party to give a political voice to the working people.
The lack of Union membership compared to years gone by, has probably contributed to the feeling of powerlessness (‘nothing changes’ etc) amongst most working people. |
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"After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
"
What it was about was creating the NHS the welfare estate and making things better for poor people.
So it was hugely successful it achieved everything it sat out to, which then led to a problem, what now ?
So they aligned themselves to the communist revolutions of the world, but then when people realised what Stalin was like it became unfashionable to be a communist
So instead, they aligned themselves to every minority group. But this caused problems for example the conservative Muslims they aligned themselves to didn't like the LGBT.
So they came up with a Grand plan, let's pretend everybody gets on really well with everybody, and anyone that doesn't agree is a bigot or racist. And as long as all of the parties do really bad, we might still have a chance.
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"I think the Labour Party has always been a front for some whack-job activists’ hard left agenda.
They use working people as easy votes and throw benefit money at them to keep them happy.
They’ve picked up along the way middle class public sector workers with money and the trans mafia.
They all deserve each other."
Interesting, so the reason they have banned gender affirming care for teens is because they are in the pocket of the ‘trans mafia’? |
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"After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
What it was about was creating the NHS the welfare estate and making things better for poor people.
So it was hugely successful it achieved everything it sat out to, which then led to a problem, what now ?
So they aligned themselves to the communist revolutions of the world, but then when people realised what Stalin was like it became unfashionable to be a communist
So instead, they aligned themselves to every minority group. But this caused problems for example the conservative Muslims they aligned themselves to didn't like the LGBT.
So they came up with a Grand plan, let's pretend everybody gets on really well with everybody, and anyone that doesn't agree is a bigot or racist. And as long as all of the parties do really bad, we might still have a chance.
"
Can you provide any evidence of the Labour Party aligning itself with communist revolutions? |
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By *l_xxxMan 2 weeks ago
South leeds |
I wonder if we can pretty much all agree that politics across the globe is in a mess. It's reached a point of near chaos with many factors creating a very unstable situation. It would be nice if people accepted it will take a long time to level out rather than switch leaders every year because it hasn't improved instantly. |
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"After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
What it was about was creating the NHS the welfare estate and making things better for poor people.
So it was hugely successful it achieved everything it sat out to, which then led to a problem, what now ?
So they aligned themselves to the communist revolutions of the world, but then when people realised what Stalin was like it became unfashionable to be a communist
So instead, they aligned themselves to every minority group. But this caused problems for example the conservative Muslims they aligned themselves to didn't like the LGBT.
So they came up with a Grand plan, let's pretend everybody gets on really well with everybody, and anyone that doesn't agree is a bigot or racist. And as long as all of the parties do really bad, we might still have a chance.
Can you provide any evidence of the Labour Party aligning itself with communist revolutions?"
Ok fair challenge.
Maybe better wording was aligning itself with the values and policies of the revolutionaries such as sharing economic ideas, favouring engagement with communist countries, advocating policies that the Soviet Union would have welcomed (such as unilateral nuclear disarmament).
There was a massive communist party influence into the labour party, especially through trade unions and academia but you are right there is no direct evidence that the labour party itself was choosing this direction. But the labour party is the people who are the members, and if a lot of them were either secretly or openly communist, then it has an impact.
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"After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
What it was about was creating the NHS the welfare estate and making things better for poor people.
So it was hugely successful it achieved everything it sat out to, which then led to a problem, what now ?
So they aligned themselves to the communist revolutions of the world, but then when people realised what Stalin was like it became unfashionable to be a communist
So instead, they aligned themselves to every minority group. But this caused problems for example the conservative Muslims they aligned themselves to didn't like the LGBT.
So they came up with a Grand plan, let's pretend everybody gets on really well with everybody, and anyone that doesn't agree is a bigot or racist. And as long as all of the parties do really bad, we might still have a chance.
Can you provide any evidence of the Labour Party aligning itself with communist revolutions?
Ok fair challenge.
Maybe better wording was aligning itself with the values and policies of the revolutionaries such as sharing economic ideas, favouring engagement with communist countries, advocating policies that the Soviet Union would have welcomed (such as unilateral nuclear disarmament).
There was a massive communist party influence into the labour party, especially through trade unions and academia but you are right there is no direct evidence that the labour party itself was choosing this direction. But the labour party is the people who are the members, and if a lot of them were either secretly or openly communist, then it has an impact.
"
The Labour Party actively purged Communists from the party, post 1924. It also rebuffed overtures from CPGB for decades. It was a Labour PM who commissioned Britain’s first nuclear weapons, and unilateralism was only official party policy for about a decade, and was never pursued when in power.
Which communist countries did Labour favour engagement with, and over whom? Also, which economic ideas did it share with communists? |
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By *coptoCouple 2 weeks ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
"The Trade Unions founded the Labour Party to give a political voice to the working people.
The lack of Union membership compared to years gone by, has probably contributed to the feeling of powerlessness (‘nothing changes’ etc) amongst most working people".
Yup, without Trade Unions (I say only HALF-jokingly), we'd all be working eighty hours a week in a coal mine with no safety equipment.
But their power was smashed (rightly or wrongly, please discuss) by the simple fact - and Tory policy - that unemployed people don't belong to a Trade Union. |
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"But their power was smashed (rightly or wrongly, please discuss) by the simple fact - and Tory policy - that unemployed people don't belong to a Trade Union."
Nonsense. The smashing of the Trade Unions was the Miners' Strike, and the unemployment happened after that finished.
What smashed the unions was (to oversimplify a fair bit) the Tories bringing in new legislation to kerb the unions' powers, and the Thatcher government holding out for long enough to let the unions run out of money. |
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"It has not always been as supportive as it should but if you believe any other party would have given us the NHS,welfare state,minimum wages,equal pay,human rights, workers rights,open University, Devolution,banned zero hour contracts,ended no fault evictions. If you compare that to every list of the Conservative party and its help for the workers it will not compare."
This Labour party wouldn't have given the NHS, equal rights decent pay etc.. |
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"But their power was smashed (rightly or wrongly, please discuss) by the simple fact - and Tory policy - that unemployed people don't belong to a Trade Union.
Nonsense. The smashing of the Trade Unions was the Miners' Strike, and the unemployment happened after that finished.
What smashed the unions was (to oversimplify a fair bit) the Tories bringing in new legislation to kerb the unions' powers, and the Thatcher government holding out for long enough to let the unions run out of money."
It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things.
Also the loss of community spirit should not be ignored. Unions helped foster a sense of togetherness in communities.
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"It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things.
Also the loss of community spirit should not be ignored. Unions helped foster a sense of togetherness in communities."
Disagree. It was the state having massive companies that employed whole towns that gave a sense of togetherness.
So what cuts to regulations that protect workers have happened since the 1970s? |
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"After reading some comments and being criticised for pointing out a few things ...
Does anyone remember what the labour party used to be about BEFORE it was hijacked by neo liberal elitist champagne socialist bar stewards ??!
And (before the usual suspects reply) I don't mean Jeremy Corbyn
Critics who bash the version of Corbyn that they've invented in their heads to bash him with
What it was about was creating the NHS the welfare estate and making things better for poor people.
So it was hugely successful it achieved everything it sat out to, which then led to a problem, what now ?
So they aligned themselves to the communist revolutions of the world, but then when people realised what Stalin was like it became unfashionable to be a communist
So instead, they aligned themselves to every minority group. But this caused problems for example the conservative Muslims they aligned themselves to didn't like the LGBT.
So they came up with a Grand plan, let's pretend everybody gets on really well with everybody, and anyone that doesn't agree is a bigot or racist. And as long as all of the parties do really bad, we might still have a chance.
Can you provide any evidence of the Labour Party aligning itself with communist revolutions?"
Labour party? If I dug deep enough I'm sure I'd find something. I'd have to double check (and I really don't have time today) but if memory serves me correctly I'm sure there was something a bit fishy about John Stonehouse. And I don't just mean his Reggie Perrin impersonation.
Labour movement? Now that's a very different story.
Many union leaders were in the direct or indirect pay of the Soviet Union.
Jack Jones and Arthur Scargill being the first two that spring to mind. |
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"It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things.
Also the loss of community spirit should not be ignored. Unions helped foster a sense of togetherness in communities.
Disagree. It was the state having massive companies that employed whole towns that gave a sense of togetherness.
So what cuts to regulations that protect workers have happened since the 1970s?"
The HSAWA1974 was probably the biggest change , which replaced a lot of specific duties, with more broader duties.
The dreaded phrase ‘so far as reasonably practicable’ was brought in to replace more detailed requirements.
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"It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things."
"So what cuts to regulations that protect workers have happened since the 1970s?"
"The HSAWA1974 was probably the biggest change , which replaced a lot of specific duties, with more broader duties.
The dreaded phrase ‘so far as reasonably practicable’ was brought in to replace more detailed requirements."
Good example. The Health and Safety at Work Act did indeed replace a lot of other more generic laws. Can you cite an example of any company where workers' protections were lessened as a result of that change? |
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"It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things.
So what cuts to regulations that protect workers have happened since the 1970s?
The HSAWA1974 was probably the biggest change , which replaced a lot of specific duties, with more broader duties.
The dreaded phrase ‘so far as reasonably practicable’ was brought in to replace more detailed requirements.
Good example. The Health and Safety at Work Act did indeed replace a lot of other more generic laws. Can you cite an example of any company where workers' protections were lessened as a result of that change?"
They weren’t generic laws. They were specific to certain industries
E.g The Factories Act, Mines and Quarries Act.
What worked in one industry couldn’t easily be transferred to another industry.
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"It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things."
"So what cuts to regulations that protect workers have happened since the 1970s?"
"The HSAWA1974 was probably the biggest change , which replaced a lot of specific duties, with more broader duties.
The dreaded phrase ‘so far as reasonably practicable’ was brought in to replace more detailed requirements."
"Good example. The Health and Safety at Work Act did indeed replace a lot of other more generic laws. Can you cite an example of any company where workers' protections were lessened as a result of that change?"
"They weren’t generic laws. They were specific to certain industries
E.g The Factories Act, Mines and Quarries Act.
What worked in one industry couldn’t easily be transferred to another industry."
Yes, but they were sweeping laws that covered whole sectors. The same laws for all factories, and a different set of laws that applied to all mines, whether they were comparable or not.
But however you want to describe the old laws, can you think of a single example of workers' protections dropping as a result of the introduction of the HASAWA? |
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Funnily when I hear the words Reform or Conservative I think of greedy unscrupulous types who will happily trample on anyone to get one rung further up the ladder. Meanwhile the leaders of those parties are laughing at their working class voters for being so gullible. It is a strange old world isnt it. |
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By *en-KirCouple 2 weeks ago
Durham |
"Funnily when I hear the words Reform or Conservative I think of greedy unscrupulous types who will happily trample on anyone to get one rung further up the ladder. Meanwhile the leaders of those parties are laughing at their working class voters for being so gullible. It is a strange old world isnt it."
More millionaires in the front row of the Labour Party than any other political party. Funny that’s isn’t. |
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"Funnily when I hear the words Reform or Conservative I think of greedy unscrupulous types who will happily trample on anyone to get one rung further up the ladder. Meanwhile the leaders of those parties are laughing at their working class voters for being so gullible. It is a strange old world isnt it.
More millionaires in the front row of the Labour Party than any other political party. Funny that’s isn’t. "
The front row? |
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That is an interesting thought but as you guys are probably turncoat Tories and now slither in the gutter of Reform politics, therefore i am not expecting any facts or insight. Just feelings and barely disguised bigotry |
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"It’s no coincidence that unionised workplaces were better paid, and had better conditions.
Now that union membership is less than it used to be, people have to make do with zero hour contracts, less secure employment and cuts to regulations that protect them, amongst other things.
So what cuts to regulations that protect workers have happened since the 1970s?
The HSAWA1974 was probably the biggest change , which replaced a lot of specific duties, with more broader duties.
The dreaded phrase ‘so far as reasonably practicable’ was brought in to replace more detailed requirements.
Good example. The Health and Safety at Work Act did indeed replace a lot of other more generic laws. Can you cite an example of any company where workers' protections were lessened as a result of that change?"
actually the hasawa brought in statutory duties regarding health and safety at work for the first time in the uk. basically, in 1970 barbara castle's work on health and safety law was undermined by the incoming heath government which fought against legislation, prefering to impose toothless and vague pieces of nonsense devised by willy whitelaw. thankfully the garbage conservative government of 70-74 was ousted and for the first time health and safety in the work place was legislated with statutory instruments that forced industry to start taking the issue seriously,thankfully. |
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"Labour party changed because the public do not want left wing socialism so blair had to change it to be able to get into power to help destroy the country..."
Labour don't really have an identity. They have so many factions it will eventually fracture. |
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"That is an interesting thought but as you guys are probably turncoat Tories and now slither in the gutter of Reform politics, therefore i am not expecting any facts or insight. Just feelings and barely disguised bigotry"
And of course your posts are all based entirely on fact, and not at all influenced by your hatred of those that think differently to you. |
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By *en-KirCouple 2 weeks ago
Durham |
"That is an interesting thought but as you guys are probably turncoat Tories and now slither in the gutter of Reform politics, therefore i am not expecting any facts or insight. Just feelings and barely disguised bigotry"
I love when the little lefty start throwing the word Bigot around. They used to say racist a lot. But since the Labour Party is one of only two political parties investigated and proven to be racist. They can’t use the racist card any more. Awww shame that |
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