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Invasion Spain
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!" That's 60,000 in 24hrs! | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!! That's 60,000 in 24hrs!" It's also not mainland Spain, but a small Spanish city in North Africa. | |||
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"Is this not just people wanting the life stile that Europe has? Healthcare, Workers Rights, Etc." Then there's plenty of legal ways to come over | |||
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"Is this not just people wanting the life stile that Europe has? Healthcare, Workers Rights, Etc." 👍Free healthcare Free housing and benefits | |||
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"Oh for heaven's sake, this is all happening on North Africa. It's not on the continent of Europe at all." Oh well that makes it ok then  | |||
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"Oh for heaven's sake, this is all happening on North Africa. It's not on the continent of Europe at all." So? | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!" Spain then onto France then us when is this world going to wake up.these people don't want to fle wars they want to terrorise people.look what happened last night they had only been in Spain a few hours they was looting shops and houses setting cars on fire.but you will still get the lefties sticking up for them . | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!Spain then onto France then us when is this world going to wake up.these people don't want to fle wars they want to terrorise people.look what happened last night they had only been in Spain a few hours they was looting shops and houses setting cars on fire.but you will still get the lefties sticking up for them ." How are they going to get from Ceuta to Spain? | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!Spain then onto France then us when is this world going to wake up.these people don't want to fle wars they want to terrorise people.look what happened last night they had only been in Spain a few hours they was looting shops and houses setting cars on fire.but you will still get the lefties sticking up for them . How are they going to get from Ceuta to Spain?" probably boat like they do here | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!Spain then onto France then us when is this world going to wake up.these people don't want to fle wars they want to terrorise people.look what happened last night they had only been in Spain a few hours they was looting shops and houses setting cars on fire.but you will still get the lefties sticking up for them . How are they going to get from Ceuta to Spain? probably boat like they do here " But why would they need to illegally cross a border into Ceuta to do this? | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!Spain then onto France then us when is this world going to wake up.these people don't want to fle wars they want to terrorise people.look what happened last night they had only been in Spain a few hours they was looting shops and houses setting cars on fire.but you will still get the lefties sticking up for them . How are they going to get from Ceuta to Spain? probably boat like they do here But why would they need to illegally cross a border into Ceuta to do this?" probably the same reasons they come over to England | |||
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"I bet half the people who are foaming at the mouth on here couldn’t even point to Ceuta on a map without using google. It’s wierd place at the best of times, basically a small town on a spit of land in Morocco which belongs to Spain. Having said that, it’s quite shocking to see what’s happening. I just don’t like seeing it used as fuel for far right shithousery " What makes you think people don't know where Ceuta is? | |||
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"I bet half the people who are foaming at the mouth on here couldn’t even point to Ceuta on a map without using google. It’s wierd place at the best of times, basically a small town on a spit of land in Morocco which belongs to Spain. Having said that, it’s quite shocking to see what’s happening. I just don’t like seeing it used as fuel for far right shithousery " what is far right ?if it's all the normal people in this country who are wanting to protect women and children then I'm far right it's so easy with you lefties throwing the far right card every time we don't agree with your narrative.there is probably 2 per cent of the country who are probably racists and theres no place for them.the lefties are the ones always causing trouble at these marches hiding there faces maybe it's you lot who are the far right lot.all normal people want in this country is for there families to be safe. | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. I relation to the thread title.. "60,000 Africans arrive in another part of Africa" would be more accurate. God bless colonialism though for giving us a Spanish town in Africa. . " Countries borders/territories, names and population have been changing for millennia, How far do you want to go back ? | |||
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"Has Spain pissed anyone off lately?" Argentina? | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. " This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. | |||
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"I bet half the people who are foaming at the mouth on here couldn’t even point to Ceuta on a map without using google. It’s wierd place at the best of times, basically a small town on a spit of land in Morocco which belongs to Spain. Having said that, it’s quite shocking to see what’s happening. I just don’t like seeing it used as fuel for far right shithousery " What have the "far right" said that you don't like? | |||
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"It's worth noting a couple of things. This isn't Europe, it's a Spanish enclave in Africa. There is no route onwards to Europe from here. It's a political response from Morocco given Spanish policies with Algeria recently. They've done this before. " If there is no route then why has Italy suspended Schengen with Spain and France threatening to do the same? | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics." It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. " That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous. | |||
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"It's worth noting a couple of things. This isn't Europe, it's a Spanish enclave in Africa. There is no route onwards to Europe from here. It's a political response from Morocco given Spanish policies with Algeria recently. They've done this before. If there is no route then why has Italy suspended Schengen with Spain and France threatening to do the same?" I'd guess because Italy has a right wing government and it plays well for them to sound 'tough' on immigration. In reality i don't know what difference it makes. To get from Ceuta to mainland Spain you have to go through additional border checks. | |||
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"In reality i don't know what difference it makes. To get from Ceuta to mainland Spain you have to go through additional border checks." Ceuta had has an influx that has doubled its population. There's no way that the tiny city can house and feed all of those people, which is a legal requirement for the Spanish government. It won't be popular, but Spain will soon have to take them all to the mainland so that they can be processed. | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous." Am I misunderstanding that absolute fact that more women die as a result of assaults committed by people they know than die at the hand of strangers? | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous. Am I misunderstanding that absolute fact that more women die as a result of assaults committed by people they know than die at the hand of strangers? " No. But your statement that "women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country" is wrong. | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous. Am I misunderstanding that absolute fact that more women die as a result of assaults committed by people they know than die at the hand of strangers? No. But your statement that "women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country" is wrong." That there are more dangerous peeps outside your home/family/friend circle doesn't mean you're in more danger outside the outside of those situations. You are far still more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know and trust. That's a fact.  | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous. Am I misunderstanding that absolute fact that more women die as a result of assaults committed by people they know than die at the hand of strangers? No. But your statement that "women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country" is wrong. That there are more dangerous peeps outside your home/family/friend circle doesn't mean you're in more danger outside the outside of those situations. You are far still more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know and trust. That's a fact. "It's basic maths. I already explained it. I don't know why it's hard to get. More people die in car accidents than they die because of nuclear bombs. Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs? | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb..." Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous. Am I misunderstanding that absolute fact that more women die as a result of assaults committed by people they know than die at the hand of strangers? No. But your statement that "women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country" is wrong. That there are more dangerous peeps outside your home/family/friend circle doesn't mean you're in more danger outside the outside of those situations. You are far still more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know and trust. That's a fact.
It's basic maths. I already explained it. I don't know why it's hard to get.
More people die in car accidents than they die because of nuclear bombs. Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?
"That is the million dollar question, why is this so hard to get! Uncontrolled migration is taking place almost daily and at scale, it is undermining government controls, it is creating huge pressure on infrastructure and services across many parts of Europe, it is also influencing fringe and extreme political views and political stability, and is a real challenging to the social and economic makeup of Europe. I find it difficult to argue against any of the above, however many do but their argument is usually against the views of those who think differently to them and not the actual issues... | |||
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"The reality of course is that women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country. This is not true. It's misinterpretation of statistics. It is absolutely true, and it has ever been thus. That's because you are misunderstanding statistics which say most sexual assaults happen domestically. That doesn't mean women are at bigger danger at their home. You need to calculate proportionality. If there are 90 people in group A of which 10 people are criminals and there are 10 people in group B of which 5 people are criminal, you will be told that two-third of the criminals belong to group A. That doesn't mean group A is more dangerous. Am I misunderstanding that absolute fact that more women die as a result of assaults committed by people they know than die at the hand of strangers? No. But your statement that "women and children are in much greater danger in their own homes, and from people they know and trust, than they are from random strangers from another country" is wrong. That there are more dangerous peeps outside your home/family/friend circle doesn't mean you're in more danger outside the outside of those situations. You are far still more likely to be sexually assaulted by someone you know and trust. That's a fact.
It's basic maths. I already explained it. I don't know why it's hard to get.
More people die in car accidents than they die because of nuclear bombs. Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?
"I would certainly say that you're far more in danger from a car than from a nuclear bomb, yes. I don't think there's any argument about that. | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"?" What country has said they are going to bomb you? 
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely. | |||
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" More people die in car accidents than they die because of nuclear bombs. Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs? That is the million dollar question, why is this so hard to get! Uncontrolled migration is taking place almost daily and at scale, it is undermining government controls, it is creating huge pressure on infrastructure and services across many parts of Europe, it is also influencing fringe and extreme political views and political stability, and is a real challenging to the social and economic makeup of Europe. I find it difficult to argue against any of the above, however many do but their argument is usually against the views of those who think differently to them and not the actual issues... " Yeah people see some soundbites on the internet which align with their political views and go around parroting the same thing without critically thinking about it. The whole "more women have been assaulted by people that they know than by strangers" statistic has been misused everywhere by people who don't even understand basic statistics. Are these people really saying that they would be more comfortable with a woman in their family walking alone to a hotel that's full of unvetted men from countries where the concept of female consent isn't even a thing, than them waking around their own family and friends? As you said, there is a long list of issues with immigration. There is a reason why Russia and Belarus push immigrants to destabilise Europe. In the case of Spain, it was most probably the Moroccan government doing it. They are obviously not doing this because sending more immigrants like this is good for Europe. | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely. "That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you? | |||
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"I bet half the people who are foaming at the mouth on here couldn’t even point to Ceuta on a map without using google. It’s wierd place at the best of times, basically a small town on a spit of land in Morocco which belongs to Spain. Having said that, it’s quite shocking to see what’s happening. I just don’t like seeing it used as fuel for far right shithousery what is far right ?if it's all the normal people in this country who are wanting to protect women and children then I'm far right it's so easy with you lefties throwing the far right card every time we don't agree with your narrative.there is probably 2 per cent of the country who are probably racists and theres no place for them.the lefties are the ones always causing trouble at these marches hiding there faces maybe it's you lot who are the far right lot.all normal people want in this country is for there families to be safe." It’s a funny thing, most racists don’t think they’re racist, they think they are normal, sensible people. | |||
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"I bet half the people who are foaming at the mouth on here couldn’t even point to Ceuta on a map without using google. It’s wierd place at the best of times, basically a small town on a spit of land in Morocco which belongs to Spain. Having said that, it’s quite shocking to see what’s happening. I just don’t like seeing it used as fuel for far right shithousery what is far right ?if it's all the normal people in this country who are wanting to protect women and children then I'm far right it's so easy with you lefties throwing the far right card every time we don't agree with your narrative.there is probably 2 per cent of the country who are probably racists and theres no place for them.the lefties are the ones always causing trouble at these marches hiding there faces maybe it's you lot who are the far right lot.all normal people want in this country is for there families to be safe. It’s a funny thing, most racists don’t think they’re racist, they think they are normal, sensible people." By that argument, I can claim that you are a racist too and you just don't know it  | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely.
That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you?"I’m considerably more likely to be killed by a car than I am to fall off a mountain. | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely.
That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you?
I’m considerably more likely to be killed by a car than I am to fall off a mountain."Yes and that doesn't make driving a more dangerous endeavour than mountaineering. | |||
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"Oh well ..the vagaries and consequences of a post colonial period of stealing others lands eh. As one sows etc" Are the people living in Ceuta today the ones who should reap? | |||
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"Oh well ..the vagaries and consequences of a post colonial period of stealing others lands eh. As one sows etc Are the people living in Ceuta today the ones who should reap?" I suppose if they are willing to give up all the advantages Spain gained from colonialism, then there’s an argument to say they shouldn’t. | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely.
That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you?"You're missing the point, probably deliberately. Clearly, for most people, they are many times more likely to be injured while driving than they are to fall off a mountain. | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely.
That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you?
I’m considerably more likely to be killed by a car than I am to fall off a mountain.
Yes and that doesn't make driving a more dangerous endeavour than mountaineering. "It does for me, I drive daily, I never go mountaineering. | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely.
That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you?
I’m considerably more likely to be killed by a car than I am to fall off a mountain.
Yes and that doesn't make driving a more dangerous endeavour than mountaineering.
It does for me, I drive daily, I never go mountaineering."So? That doesn't have anything to do with the immigration argument. Ceuta did receive too many immigrants. It's akin to you being forced to do mountaineering. Will you say driving is more dangerous anyway if you are forced into mountaineering? | |||
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"Oh well ..the vagaries and consequences of a post colonial period of stealing others lands eh. As one sows etc Are the people living in Ceuta today the ones who should reap? I suppose if they are willing to give up all the advantages Spain gained from colonialism, then there’s an argument to say they shouldn’t." How far in the history do you want to go when it comes to finding advantages of what people multiple generations back did? | |||
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""Will you say that cars are more dangerous than nuclear bombs?" Well, I do - I think I'm far more likely to be killed or injured by a car than by a nuclear bomb... Yes, if some country says that they are going to bomb us, will you say "Let's not worry about it. Cars are a bigger danger than bombs because the numbers said so"? What country has said they are going to bomb you?
If you need to use hypothetical situations to make your point then you're missing the point entirely.
That's the conclusion one can reach by using your own logical reasoning. If you don't want hypothetical situation, more people die of car accidents than they die of mountaineering. So driving is more dangerous than mountaineering according to you?
You're missing the point, probably deliberately.
Clearly, for most people, they are many times more likely to be injured while driving than they are to fall off a mountain. "But still mountaineering is more dangerous. To say that "driving is more dangerous than mountaineering because more people die due to driving" is as stupid as saying "family and friends are more dangerous to women than immigrants because more assaults are committed by family and friends". The missing piece here is proportionality, something which anyone with little bit of understanding of statistics will know. | |||
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"Oh well ..the vagaries and consequences of a post colonial period of stealing others lands eh. As one sows etc Are the people living in Ceuta today the ones who should reap? I suppose if they are willing to give up all the advantages Spain gained from colonialism, then there’s an argument to say they shouldn’t. How far in the history do you want to go when it comes to finding advantages of what people multiple generations back did? " Only as far as what advantages Spain gained from colonialism, that would suffice. | |||
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"Oh well ..the vagaries and consequences of a post colonial period of stealing others lands eh. As one sows etc Are the people living in Ceuta today the ones who should reap? I suppose if they are willing to give up all the advantages Spain gained from colonialism, then there’s an argument to say they shouldn’t. How far in the history do you want to go when it comes to finding advantages of what people multiple generations back did? Only as far as what advantages Spain gained from colonialism, that would suffice." Thanks for accepting your bias  | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!" They’ve come to enrich your life!!   | |||
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Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing "Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult? | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing
Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult?
"Aren’t all insults derogatory? | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing
Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult?
Aren’t all insults derogatory?"Yes, however my question is whether the poster considers the use of “gammon” to be bigotry, or whether they think it’s an acceptable political insult. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing
Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult?
Aren’t all insults derogatory?"Some clearly more than others.. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing
Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult?
Aren’t all insults derogatory?
Yes, however my question is whether the poster considers the use of “gammon” to be bigotry, or whether they think it’s an acceptable political insult."In what way would it be bigoted? | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing
Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult?
Aren’t all insults derogatory?
Yes, however my question is whether the poster considers the use of “gammon” to be bigotry, or whether they think it’s an acceptable political insult.
In what way would it be bigoted?"Because it's an insult designed to identify a certain ethnic group. Look the point of the thread wasn't about race or what's happening in Morocco and their politics . It's more to highlight the expansion of the small boat culture, now given that this has happened are we going to see copycat style invasions happening elsewhere Because this is what it's starting to feel like more like an invasions rather than genuine "fleeing for your lives " Any sympathy seems to dwindling fast due to sheer numbers of people entering countries illegally. And yes whilst obviously there's genuine cases I think there's also lots of lazy people unwilling to make a go of it at home and prefer choose the easier option to become a freeloader elsewhere. And here's the BIGGEST problem because of this many hundreds of GENUINE people who have absolute justification to fleeing their home for a safety are being lost and marginalised because of non genuine case's and greedy criminals exploiting them. It's time this whole small boat nonsense was stopped once and for always. Close down the factories making and supplying the boat's! Fairly simple stop the means to cross. | |||
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" It's time this whole small boat nonsense was stopped once and for always. Close down the factories making and supplying the boat's! Fairly simple stop the means to cross." The UK has committed roughly £1.14 billion to France for border controls from 2023 to 2029: * £476 million under the 2023–26 agreement, funding French police patrols, surveillance technology, fencing and other measures intended to prevent small-boat departures. * £662 million committed for 2026–29, including £501 million for existing controls and £161 million for new interception tactics. Hard to comprehend how such an expensive security cost has failed. Equivalent to £38 per uk household. Plus the annual cost of successful small boat arrivals, border control, police, home office, housing (inc govt housing contracts) welfare, legal, courts, nhs, benefits, public services at £8bn a year. Another £266 per uk household annually. | |||
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"Send In The army and secure the borders " Israeli gunboats in the channel They will paddle back to France quicker than an Olympic rowing team | |||
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" It's time this whole small boat nonsense was stopped once and for always. Close down the factories making and supplying the boat's! Fairly simple stop the means to cross." Fully agree with the first sentence but closing down the factory's would be very difficult if not impossible. Most are manufactured in China and shipped to France via Turkey and Germany. While the Germans have made inroads and shut down a few smuggling operations the Chinese are happy to sell the boats and the Turks don't seem to give a fuck either way. | |||
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" It's time this whole small boat nonsense was stopped once and for always. Close down the factories making and supplying the boat's! Fairly simple stop the means to cross. The UK has committed roughly £1.14 billion to France for border controls from 2023 to 2029: * £476 million under the 2023–26 agreement, funding French police patrols, surveillance technology, fencing and other measures intended to prevent small-boat departures. * £662 million committed for 2026–29, including £501 million for existing controls and £161 million for new interception tactics. Hard to comprehend how such an expensive security cost has failed. Equivalent to £38 per uk household. Plus the annual cost of successful small boat arrivals, border control, police, home office, housing (inc govt housing contracts) welfare, legal, courts, nhs, benefits, public services at £8bn a year. Another £266 per uk household annually. " It's staggering isn't it, much like the war on drugs the establishment has lost and the organised gangs allow the occasional boat to be stopped. Obviously there's corrupted people making a LOT of money from this. | |||
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" It's time this whole small boat nonsense was stopped once and for always. Close down the factories making and supplying the boat's! Fairly simple stop the means to cross. The UK has committed roughly £1.14 billion to France for border controls from 2023 to 2029: * £476 million under the 2023–26 agreement, funding French police patrols, surveillance technology, fencing and other measures intended to prevent small-boat departures. * £662 million committed for 2026–29, including £501 million for existing controls and £161 million for new interception tactics. Hard to comprehend how such an expensive security cost has failed. Equivalent to £38 per uk household. Plus the annual cost of successful small boat arrivals, border control, police, home office, housing (inc govt housing contracts) welfare, legal, courts, nhs, benefits, public services at £8bn a year. Another £266 per uk household annually. It's staggering isn't it, much like the war on drugs the establishment has lost and the organised gangs allow the occasional boat to be stopped. Obviously there's corrupted people making a LOT of money from this." On housing alone the UK government’s seven asylum housing contracts with Serco, Mears Group and Clearsprings are currently estimated at £15.3 billion in total over 2019–2029: Clearsprings Ready Homes £7.3bn Serco &5.5bn Mears Group £2.5bn Total £15.3bn They were originally valued at approximately £4.55 billion when awarded in 2019. The increase largely reflects greater-than-expected demand, particularly expensive hotel accommodation. These are estimated lifetime costs—not fixed guaranteed payments—and actual expenditure depends on usage. National Audit Office, May 2025. Not including hotels. A senior Home Office official confirmed during a parliamentary select committee hearing that the department was reserving 5,000 contingency hotel rooms, costing £600,000 per day—equivalent to £120 per room per day—to provide standby capacity for a possible influx of small-boat arrivals. | |||
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"Send In The army and secure the borders " In addition to the £1.14bn paid the France £24 million per year: an independent estimate of staffing costs for the uk 700-person Small Boats Operational Command. It excludes vessels, aircraft, drones, fuel, facilities, contractors and processing, so it is not the full rescue/reception cost. | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!! That's 60,000 in 24hrs! It's also not mainland Spain, but a small Spanish city in North Africa." An interview with a migrant I read said that it was his first step to getting to England | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing
Do you consider your use of “gammons” as bigotry, or a derogatory insult?
Aren’t all insults derogatory?
Yes, however my question is whether the poster considers the use of “gammon” to be bigotry, or whether they think it’s an acceptable political insult.
In what way would it be bigoted?
Because it's an insult designed to identify a certain ethnic group.
Look the point of the thread wasn't about race or what's happening in Morocco and their politics .
It's more to highlight the expansion of the small boat culture, now given that this has happened are we going to see copycat style invasions happening elsewhere Because this is what it's starting to feel like more like an invasions rather than genuine "fleeing for your lives "
Any sympathy seems to dwindling fast due to sheer numbers of people entering countries illegally.
And yes whilst obviously there's genuine cases I think there's also lots of lazy people unwilling to make a go of it at home and prefer choose the easier option to become a freeloader elsewhere.
And here's the BIGGEST problem because of this many hundreds of GENUINE people who have absolute justification to fleeing their home for a safety are being lost and marginalised because of non genuine case's and greedy criminals exploiting them.
It's time this whole small boat nonsense was stopped once and for always.
Close down the factories making and supplying the boat's! Fairly simple stop the means to cross."Which ethnic group is it designed to identify? | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!! That's 60,000 in 24hrs! It's also not mainland Spain, but a small Spanish city in North Africa. An interview with a migrant I read said that it was his first step to getting to England " I read an interview with one migrant who said he’d always wanted to be a bullfighter. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing "not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever"Sociopathy is so edgy, bro. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever"I feel very sad that people can read about the deaths of 57 people and not only not feel an ounce of sympathy, but are happy enough to tell everyone that they have no sympathy. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever"You’d of thought £1.14bn paid to France would have stopped those boats/drowning. Departing from roughly 120 kilometres of northern French coastline, arriving on up to 350 miles of uk coastline. Add the tech/drones/intel beggars believe any boats get through | |||
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"Shocking videos of the 60,000 migrants arriving from Morocco into Spain. When is this ridiculousness going to be brought to a halt. Countries can't keep an open door policy for anyone to invade another country unchallenged? .Morocco isn't exactly a third world country!!Spain then onto France then us when is this world going to wake up.these people don't want to fle wars they want to terrorise people.look what happened last night they had only been in Spain a few hours they was looting shops and houses setting cars on fire.but you will still get the lefties sticking up for them . How are they going to get from Ceuta to Spain?" If they claim asylum in Ceuta many will be moved to mainland for processing. But think this is all a political tool used by Morocco. Apparently a large number of these people have returned home. They would be better rushing into the UK equivalent of Ceuta, Gibraltar. What a shitshow that would be but a very, very dangerous boat crossing the straits. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
I feel very sad that people can read about the deaths of 57 people and not only not feel an ounce of sympathy, but are happy enough to tell everyone that they have no sympathy. "There are some really heartless comments posted on this forum in particular. Suspect they are trolls just out for the reaction but still it is shameful. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
I feel very sad that people can read about the deaths of 57 people and not only not feel an ounce of sympathy, but are happy enough to tell everyone that they have no sympathy.
There are some really heartless comments posted on this forum in particular. Suspect they are trolls just out for the reaction but still it is shameful."It’s really very sad, ‘Really sorry to hear that your Aunty Doris, who brought you up after your parents died in that terrible accident and worked three jobs to support you died’ ‘Don’t be, she was a smoker so the lung cancer was a consequence of her own actions’ | |||
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"Send In The army and secure the borders Israeli gunboats in the channel They will paddle back to France quicker than an Olympic rowing team " If they are Muslim, the they do not need to fear Israeli gunboats. A Muslim is statistically much more likely to be killed by another Muslim than an Israeli. Better to put some Yemeni or Syrian or Iranian boats into the channel. They're 50 times more likely to be injured or killed that way, and should be significantly more scared, unless they're bigoted. (At least, according to the logic in this thread) | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
Sociopathy is so edgy, bro."so them drowning trying to break into someone else's country isn't there fault? Play stupid games win stupid prizes just like those bellends who die on the dinghies no one else's fault except there own | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
I feel very sad that people can read about the deaths of 57 people and not only not feel an ounce of sympathy, but are happy enough to tell everyone that they have no sympathy. "why would I have sympathy for people trying to break into other people's countrys? They put themselves in that position so the blame for there deaths lay with them | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
Sociopathy is so edgy, bro.so them drowning trying to break into someone else's country isn't there fault? Play stupid games win stupid prizes just like those bellends who die on the dinghies no one else's fault except there own"Who’s an edgy boy? You are, you’re an edgy boy. | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
I feel very sad that people can read about the deaths of 57 people and not only not feel an ounce of sympathy, but are happy enough to tell everyone that they have no sympathy.
There are some really heartless comments posted on this forum in particular. Suspect they are trolls just out for the reaction but still it is shameful."apart from you and a handful of other people on here who thinks anyone has a right to be here the majority of people are sick and tired of the worlds misfits arriving in our countries.i wouldn't expect any sympathy if I died trying something so stupid so why am I gona have sympathy for people doing stupid things | |||
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"Absolutely spot on Majority went back last night ( Friday ) Political stunt organised by the Moroccan government. Did set the gammons off in England though as always
Biggest tragedy is at least 57 drowned crossing not a tragedy at all just consequences of there actions no sympathy for them what so ever
I feel very sad that people can read about the deaths of 57 people and not only not feel an ounce of sympathy, but are happy enough to tell everyone that they have no sympathy. why would I have sympathy for people trying to break into other people's countrys? They put themselves in that position so the blame for there deaths lay with them"Generally they're not doing it for a laugh. Maybe have a think about why they're doing it and how desperate they are. You can separate the issue of illegal migration and having sympathy for desperate people who lose their lives in a pretty horrible way surely? | |||
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"I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Morocco made a power move. They showed that Europe's border control is laughable and Morocco or any other country can easily break it down and exploit it. They are using it as a leverage over Spain. This is pretty much what Russia and Belarus did with Europe by pushing immigrants, until Poland and Finland built a wall and shored up their defense in the borders. This is a warning sign for something similar happening from the other side. The question is whether European countries will acknowledge this danger and actually protect their borders." This.. As one of the lefties often castigated by some on here we and Europe are facing a huge increase in global populations moving from drought and famine etc, war (some of that down to us and others destabilising countries) and quite simply the levels being quoted by the UN are immense.. And unsustainable, both politically and socially.. | |||
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"I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Morocco made a power move. They showed that Europe's border control is laughable and Morocco or any other country can easily break it down and exploit it. They are using it as a leverage over Spain. This is pretty much what Russia and Belarus did with Europe by pushing immigrants, until Poland and Finland built a wall and shored up their defense in the borders. This is a warning sign for something similar happening from the other side. The question is whether European countries will acknowledge this danger and actually protect their borders." Agreed this discussion shouldn't really be about small boats and the like as it's not really the same thing in this case. In this instance it's a tiny Spanish city in Africa though. There are already exceptions around how migration is handled from Ceuta and Melilla that mark it as different to mainland Europe. Also worth noting that the number of people arriving illegally in Ceuta and Melilla is really quite low, lower for eg than the canary islands. | |||
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"I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Morocco made a power move. They showed that Europe's border control is laughable and Morocco or any other country can easily break it down and exploit it. They are using it as a leverage over Spain. This is pretty much what Russia and Belarus did with Europe by pushing immigrants, until Poland and Finland built a wall and shored up their defense in the borders. This is a warning sign for something similar happening from the other side. The question is whether European countries will acknowledge this danger and actually protect their borders. Agreed this discussion shouldn't really be about small boats and the like as it's not really the same thing in this case. In this instance it's a tiny Spanish city in Africa though. There are already exceptions around how migration is handled from Ceuta and Melilla that mark it as different to mainland Europe. Also worth noting that the number of people arriving illegally in Ceuta and Melilla is really quite low, lower for eg than the canary islands." In a way, it's all related. What Morocco showed is a proof of concept for how they could exploit Europe's non existent border defense around the coast. If they sent the same number of people directly to Spain by boats, what do you think Spain could have done? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. " It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. | |||
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"I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Morocco made a power move. They showed that Europe's border control is laughable and Morocco or any other country can easily break it down and exploit it. They are using it as a leverage over Spain. This is pretty much what Russia and Belarus did with Europe by pushing immigrants, until Poland and Finland built a wall and shored up their defense in the borders. This is a warning sign for something similar happening from the other side. The question is whether European countries will acknowledge this danger and actually protect their borders. Agreed this discussion shouldn't really be about small boats and the like as it's not really the same thing in this case. In this instance it's a tiny Spanish city in Africa though. There are already exceptions around how migration is handled from Ceuta and Melilla that mark it as different to mainland Europe. Also worth noting that the number of people arriving illegally in Ceuta and Melilla is really quite low, lower for eg than the canary islands. In a way, it's all related. What Morocco showed is a proof of concept for how they could exploit Europe's non existent border defense around the coast. If they sent the same number of people directly to Spain by boats, what do you think Spain could have done? " I mean 'relaxing' border controls allowing 60k people through your border to get into Ceuta is one thing. Organising boats for 60,000 people to get into mainland Spain is something else. Spain must have about 5,000km of coastline, with much of the population living in coastal areas. What exactly are you proposing? I'd quite like to look out of my window without seeing massive walls, army patrols etc. | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ." Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? | |||
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"I think people are missing the bigger picture here. Morocco made a power move. They showed that Europe's border control is laughable and Morocco or any other country can easily break it down and exploit it. They are using it as a leverage over Spain. This is pretty much what Russia and Belarus did with Europe by pushing immigrants, until Poland and Finland built a wall and shored up their defense in the borders. This is a warning sign for something similar happening from the other side. The question is whether European countries will acknowledge this danger and actually protect their borders. Agreed this discussion shouldn't really be about small boats and the like as it's not really the same thing in this case. In this instance it's a tiny Spanish city in Africa though. There are already exceptions around how migration is handled from Ceuta and Melilla that mark it as different to mainland Europe. Also worth noting that the number of people arriving illegally in Ceuta and Melilla is really quite low, lower for eg than the canary islands. In a way, it's all related. What Morocco showed is a proof of concept for how they could exploit Europe's non existent border defense around the coast. If they sent the same number of people directly to Spain by boats, what do you think Spain could have done? I mean 'relaxing' border controls allowing 60k people through your border to get into Ceuta is one thing. Organising boats for 60,000 people to get into mainland Spain is something else. " Why is it any different? That's basically Morocco's statement. They are basically telling Spain that they can fuck Spain anytime they feel like it and Spain could do nothing about it. " Spain must have about 5,000km of coastline, with much of the population living in coastal areas. What exactly are you proposing? I'd quite like to look out of my window without seeing massive walls, army patrols etc." No one is going to give a damn about what kind of views you get from your window, the moment their own safety is in danger. Do you think Poland and Finland shouldn't have built the wall and should have just allowed all the immigrants Russia and Belarus are pushing? | |||
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"Sorry, you think relaxing a border and organising 60k people into boats to cross the sea is pretty much the same? " What do you think stops them from sending the same people in the boats? Nothing is stopping people from France to come here in boats right? How is this any different? " And yes I think people would have a big issue if you surrounded them with walls and army patrols. Again, I don't know if this is what you're suggesting but I'm not really clear what you think Spain should be doing with it's 5k km of coastline..." Do you think Poland and Finland should have let the immigrants in and bent over to Putin instead of building wall and blocking them? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger?" In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers." Who wanted to commit murder? | |||
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"Sorry, you think relaxing a border and organising 60k people into boats to cross the sea is pretty much the same? What do you think stops them from sending the same people in the boats? Nothing is stopping people from France to come here in boats right? How is this any different? And yes I think people would have a big issue if you surrounded them with walls and army patrols. Again, I don't know if this is what you're suggesting but I'm not really clear what you think Spain should be doing with it's 5k km of coastline... Do you think Poland and Finland should have let the immigrants in and bent over to Putin instead of building wall and blocking them?" Well relaxing a border is basically just letting people through. Sending 60k people on boats involves planning, getting boats ready, having enough people who would want to risk their lives to make the crossing. You're absolutely guaranteeing people would die. Im not arguing that Spain should open their borders and have no control. That would be quite mental. What I'm saying is Spain has 5k km of coastline, what exactly are you proposing they do that they arent already doing? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Who are you saying wants to commit murder?" I am saying that people don't have to help others if it puts their own safety at risk. Where is murder coming in here? | |||
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" What do you think stops them from sending the same people in the boats? Nothing is stopping people from France to come here in boats right? How is this any different? And yes I think people would have a big issue if you surrounded them with walls and army patrols. Again, I don't know if this is what you're suggesting but I'm not really clear what you think Spain should be doing with it's 5k km of coastline... Do you think Poland and Finland should have let the immigrants in and bent over to Putin instead of building wall and blocking them? Well relaxing a border is basically just letting people through. Sending 60k people on boats involves planning, getting boats ready, having enough people who would want to risk their lives to make the crossing. You're absolutely guaranteeing people would die. " France did not plan or get boats. Still we have numerous people crossing the channel in boats. All they have to do is relax the borders and start some rumours that if you take a boat to Spain, they will be taken in and looked after. The government doesn't have organise anything. " Im not arguing that Spain should open their borders and have no control. That would be quite mental. What I'm saying is Spain has 5k km of coastline, what exactly are you proposing they do that they arent already doing?" It's not easy to land in most of these places in boats. If they want to stop people from coming in boats, they don't have to protect the entire length. Use the navy to stop people from taking the path in the first. If people still land in Spain, detain and deport them. None of the asylum processing nonsense. Morocco is a safe country. Announce that sending numerous people like this is an act of war and will be treated as such. | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder?" Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need." It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad?" Oh, I apologise. I thought you were approaching this in good faith. Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad? Oh, I apologise. I thought you were approaching this in good faith. Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having?" I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? | |||
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" What do you think stops them from sending the same people in the boats? Nothing is stopping people from France to come here in boats right? How is this any different? And yes I think people would have a big issue if you surrounded them with walls and army patrols. Again, I don't know if this is what you're suggesting but I'm not really clear what you think Spain should be doing with it's 5k km of coastline... Do you think Poland and Finland should have let the immigrants in and bent over to Putin instead of building wall and blocking them? Well relaxing a border is basically just letting people through. Sending 60k people on boats involves planning, getting boats ready, having enough people who would want to risk their lives to make the crossing. You're absolutely guaranteeing people would die. France did not plan or get boats. Still we have numerous people crossing the channel in boats. All they have to do is relax the borders and start some rumours that if you take a boat to Spain, they will be taken in and looked after. The government doesn't have organise anything. Im not arguing that Spain should open their borders and have no control. That would be quite mental. What I'm saying is Spain has 5k km of coastline, what exactly are you proposing they do that they arent already doing? It's not easy to land in most of these places in boats. If they want to stop people from coming in boats, they don't have to protect the entire length. Use the navy to stop people from taking the path in the first. If people still land in Spain, detain and deport them. None of the asylum processing nonsense. Morocco is a safe country. Announce that sending numerous people like this is an act of war and will be treated as such." I get the concept of why people cross in boats. What I'm saying is that 60k people over a weekend from Morocco would require large scale organisation, and enough people willing to risk their lives. It's in no way the same. Spain and Morocco already have agreements in place to return illegal immigrants to Morocco, hence why it was actually quite quick and easy (relatively speaking) to return almost all of them from Ceuta already. The guardia civil already use drones, radar, planes etc to monitor crossings, particularly the coast off Andalucia. | |||
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" I get the concept of why people cross in boats. What I'm saying is that 60k people over a weekend from Morocco would require large scale organisation, and enough people willing to risk their lives. It's in no way the same. " If 60k people can risk swimming across the borders, they can easily risk buying boats and cross the sea. Why do you think this is any different from people taking the boat from France to the UK or from anywhere else to Italy? " Spain and Morocco already have agreements in place to return illegal immigrants to Morocco, hence why it was actually quite quick and easy (relatively speaking) to return almost all of them from Ceuta already. " If they apply for asylum, Spain still has to process them. Many of them returned voluntarily because they had no place to stay. And if Morocco's goal is to destabilise Europe, they can withdraw from the agreement anytime. " The guardia civil already use drones, radar, planes etc to monitor crossings, particularly the coast off Andalucia. " Has that stopped people from landing in Spain? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad? Oh, I apologise. I thought you were approaching this in good faith. Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger?" Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings? | |||
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" I get the concept of why people cross in boats. What I'm saying is that 60k people over a weekend from Morocco would require large scale organisation, and enough people willing to risk their lives. It's in no way the same. If 60k people can risk swimming across the borders, they can easily risk buying boats and cross the sea. Why do you think this is any different from people taking the boat from France to the UK or from anywhere else to Italy? Spain and Morocco already have agreements in place to return illegal immigrants to Morocco, hence why it was actually quite quick and easy (relatively speaking) to return almost all of them from Ceuta already. If they apply for asylum, Spain still has to process them. Many of them returned voluntarily because they had no place to stay. And if Morocco's goal is to destabilise Europe, they can withdraw from the agreement anytime. The guardia civil already use drones, radar, planes etc to monitor crossings, particularly the coast off Andalucia. Has that stopped people from landing in Spain?" But what do you mean? 60,000 didn't risk swimming across a border. And swimming around a border isn't the same as crossing 20km in the open sea? Yes, if Morocco withdrew from their agreement then something else would need to be put in place, kind of goes without saying. | |||
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" Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. " Exactly! There are numerous aspects of any religious book which is open to interpretation. So no one is going against Jesus's teachings by wanting stronger border control. The argument you make about right wingers wanting UK to be a Christian country but not following Jesus's teachings is something that's spouted out in left wing echo chambers and doesn't stand scrutiny. Not to mention the fact that someone could prefer the country to be Christian while not being Christian themselves. " So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings?" Russia, Iran, Morocco. | |||
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" But what do you mean? 60,000 didn't risk swimming across a border. And swimming around a border isn't the same as crossing 20km in the open sea? " Open sea with the boat. 57 people died doing the swim. It's as risky as these people taking a boat. There are numerous people who already do even longer boat journeys to reach Europe. So why exactly is this going to be difficult? " Yes, if Morocco withdrew from their agreement then something else would need to be put in place, kind of goes without saying. " They can withdraw anytime they want. The politicians can't wait till Morocco withdraws from the agreement. It will be too late by then. | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad? Oh, I apologise. I thought you were approaching this in good faith. Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings?" I can love thy neighbor and help any person who is in need. Doesn't mean I have to welcome everyman that is invading our boarders simply because they know what our government can provide for people. Genuine refugees/asylum seekers are welcome with open arms but thats not what's happening | |||
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" But what do you mean? 60,000 didn't risk swimming across a border. And swimming around a border isn't the same as crossing 20km in the open sea? Open sea with the boat. 57 people died doing the swim. It's as risky as these people taking a boat. There are numerous people who already do even longer boat journeys to reach Europe. So why exactly is this going to be difficult? Yes, if Morocco withdrew from their agreement then something else would need to be put in place, kind of goes without saying. They can withdraw anytime they want. The politicians can't wait till Morocco withdraws from the agreement. It will be too late by then." Right but Ceuta is part of Africa, ie there is no crossing as such, just swimming around. It's not the same as getting on a boat and going 20km across the open sea. Im saying organising 60k people to do this isn't as easy as relaxing a border. They can withdraw any time they want. But as Spain and Morocco are neighbours it benefits both of them to increase cooperation, which is generally what they're doing. | |||
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" Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. Exactly! There are numerous aspects of any religious book which is open to interpretation. So no one is going against Jesus's teachings by wanting stronger border control. The argument you make about right wingers wanting UK to be a Christian country but not following Jesus's teachings is something that's spouted out in left wing echo chambers and doesn't stand scrutiny. Not to mention the fact that someone could prefer the country to be Christian while not being Christian themselves. So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings? Russia, Iran, Morocco." So you interpret Jesus saying that you should ‘love your neighbour (meaning everyone) as you love yourself’, as meaning don’t let people who need help enter the country? Jesus criticised people for raising their own human rules over god’s true teachings, which you might want to think about. Also, Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies. I have no issue with people not following the teachings of of Jesus Christ, so long as they then don’t try and pretend that either they are Christian, or that Britain is a Christian country. That you would deny hell to a person in need because you are afraid of Russia is really wild. | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad? Oh, I apologise. I thought you were approaching this in good faith. Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings? I can love thy neighbor and help any person who is in need. Doesn't mean I have to welcome everyman that is invading our boarders simply because they know what our government can provide for people. Genuine refugees/asylum seekers are welcome with open arms but thats not what's happening " Isn’t it? What makes you qualified to say that? | |||
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" But what do you mean? 60,000 didn't risk swimming across a border. And swimming around a border isn't the same as crossing 20km in the open sea? Open sea with the boat. 57 people died doing the swim. It's as risky as these people taking a boat. There are numerous people who already do even longer boat journeys to reach Europe. So why exactly is this going to be difficult? Yes, if Morocco withdrew from their agreement then something else would need to be put in place, kind of goes without saying. They can withdraw anytime they want. The politicians can't wait till Morocco withdraws from the agreement. It will be too late by then. Right but Ceuta is part of Africa, ie there is no crossing as such, just swimming around. It's not the same as getting on a boat and going 20km across the open sea. Im saying organising 60k people to do this isn't as easy as relaxing a border. " I am not sure how many times I should repeat this. Lots of people already do even longer journeys to reach Europe. Why do you think this journey is going to be any different? " They can withdraw any time they want. But as Spain and Morocco are neighbours it benefits both of them to increase cooperation, which is generally what they're doing. " But Morocco just fucked Spain by sending so many immigrants. Morocco exposed Spain's vulnerability and showed that they can't be trusted. It's the duty of the politicians to proactively improve border defense instead of waiting for something bad to happen. | |||
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" Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. Exactly! There are numerous aspects of any religious book which is open to interpretation. So no one is going against Jesus's teachings by wanting stronger border control. The argument you make about right wingers wanting UK to be a Christian country but not following Jesus's teachings is something that's spouted out in left wing echo chambers and doesn't stand scrutiny. Not to mention the fact that someone could prefer the country to be Christian while not being Christian themselves. So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings? Russia, Iran, Morocco. So you interpret Jesus saying that you should ‘love your neighbour (meaning everyone) as you love yourself’, as meaning don’t let people who need help enter the country? Jesus criticised people for raising their own human rules over god’s true teachings, which you might want to think about. Also, Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies. I have no issue with people not following the teachings of of Jesus Christ, so long as they then don’t try and pretend that either they are Christian, or that Britain is a Christian country. That you would deny hell to a person in need because you are afraid of Russia is really wild." *deny help | |||
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" So you interpret Jesus saying that you should ‘love your neighbour (meaning everyone) as you love yourself’, as meaning don’t let people who need help enter the country? " Apologies, I thought you were arguing in good faith. Not sure where that strawman argument came from. One cannot help others if they are in danger themselves. So if Europe wants to help people in need, they have to protect themselves in the first place. " Jesus criticised people for raising their own human rules over god’s true teachings, which you might want to think about. Also, Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies. " But no one is breaking any of what Jesus taught. Jesus never said one shouldn't defend oneself from their enemies. " I have no issue with people not following the teachings of of Jesus Christ, so long as they then don’t try and pretend that either they are Christian, or that Britain is a Christian country. " As I said above, one can not be a Christian and still want this to be a Christian country. " That you would deny hell to a person in need because you are afraid of Russia is really wild." Because if you are in danger yourself, you can't help others. You have to put yourself in a better place to help others. And these people are pawns used by people like Putin. Why do you want Europe to succumb to Putin? | |||
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" But what do you mean? 60,000 didn't risk swimming across a border. And swimming around a border isn't the same as crossing 20km in the open sea? Open sea with the boat. 57 people died doing the swim. It's as risky as these people taking a boat. There are numerous people who already do even longer boat journeys to reach Europe. So why exactly is this going to be difficult? Yes, if Morocco withdrew from their agreement then something else would need to be put in place, kind of goes without saying. They can withdraw anytime they want. The politicians can't wait till Morocco withdraws from the agreement. It will be too late by then. Right but Ceuta is part of Africa, ie there is no crossing as such, just swimming around. It's not the same as getting on a boat and going 20km across the open sea. Im saying organising 60k people to do this isn't as easy as relaxing a border. I am not sure how many times I should repeat this. Lots of people already do even longer journeys to reach Europe. Why do you think this journey is going to be any different? They can withdraw any time they want. But as Spain and Morocco are neighbours it benefits both of them to increase cooperation, which is generally what they're doing. But Morocco just fucked Spain by sending so many immigrants. Morocco exposed Spain's vulnerability and showed that they can't be trusted. It's the duty of the politicians to proactively improve border defense instead of waiting for something bad to happen." I accept that many people risk their lives to get to Europe. What I'm saying is that getting 60,000 together to all risk their lives at the same time requires far more coordination and organisation than just relaxing a border. Morocco exposed Spain's vulnerability on the border of Ceuta, a small town of 80,000 people in Africa that physically shares a land border with Morocco. You can't extrapolate that to say that all of Spain's borders are the same and have the same requirements. | |||
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" I accept that many people risk their lives to get to Europe. What I'm saying is that getting 60,000 together to all risk their lives at the same time requires far more coordination and organisation than just relaxing a border. " I have already answered this too. It doesn't need government coordination. 60,000 people didn't need coordinating just a few days back. The only difference is that they will need boats this time. The people trafficking business is very efficient and can easily handle this. " Morocco exposed Spain's vulnerability on the border of Ceuta, a small town of 80,000 people in Africa that physically shares a land border with Morocco. You can't extrapolate that to say that all of Spain's borders are the same and have the same requirements." Are you saying that Spain's borders are well protected and it doesn't allow random people to show up in boats? Statistics say otherwise. | |||
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" So you interpret Jesus saying that you should ‘love your neighbour (meaning everyone) as you love yourself’, as meaning don’t let people who need help enter the country? Apologies, I thought you were arguing in good faith. Not sure where that strawman argument came from. One cannot help others if they are in danger themselves. So if Europe wants to help people in need, they have to protect themselves in the first place. Jesus criticised people for raising their own human rules over god’s true teachings, which you might want to think about. Also, Jesus commanded his followers to love their enemies. But no one is breaking any of what Jesus taught. Jesus never said one shouldn't defend oneself from their enemies. I have no issue with people not following the teachings of of Jesus Christ, so long as they then don’t try and pretend that either they are Christian, or that Britain is a Christian country. As I said above, one can not be a Christian and still want this to be a Christian country. That you would deny hell to a person in need because you are afraid of Russia is really wild. Because if you are in danger yourself, you can't help others. You have to put yourself in a better place to help others. And these people are pawns used by people like Putin. Why do you want Europe to succumb to Putin?" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. You do realise how silly that sounds, don’t you? | |||
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"There is a very thin line between civilisation as we know it and social breakdown. Anyone of us can become a refugee at any point. Sure, the chances of it happening are minimal for all of us here right now, but it’s not an outright impossiblity. Famine, drought or resource depletion, not to mention war or an economic shock can happen relatively quickly. There but for the grace of God is the phrase that comes to mind. Do not make the mistake of taking what we have for granted. It’s interesting you bring god into it. We keep being told by certain people that Britain is a Christian country, but these same people show no signs whatsoever of following the teachings of Jesus Christ. Which teaching of Jesus Christ says that you need to help people even if it puts your own life in danger? In the same part when he said you shouldn’t shoot people with an AK47. Oh hang on, he said that ‘you shall not murder’ because he was aware people might try and misconstrue his teachings in the future to suit their own ends. Might I suggest you take a moment to read the parable of the Good Samaritan, it’s really quite instructive of what Jesus expects of his followers. Who wanted to commit murder? Oh, you’re confused. I was using another teaching of Jesus to explain that he wasn’t too specific because he assumed that people would be able to extrapolate from the general principle, rather than have to have everything catered specifically for their example. So to explain it simply for you - Jesus never said anything about AK47s because they weren’t invented while he was alive. He used the very simple ‘don’t murder people’ to encompass any eventuality. Similarly, he didn’t specify people crossing bodies of water in dinghies, when he talked about living thy neighbour, by neighbour he meant absolutely anyone, especially those in need. It still doesn't address my point. Did Jesus ever say that one must help their neighbour even if it's going to put themselves in danger? Did Jesus ever say that self defense is bad? Oh, I apologise. I thought you were approaching this in good faith. Who is attacking you in this vivid fever dream you appear to be having? I asked you a direct question. Morocco in this case is exploiting the lax borders of Europe. So does Russia and Iran. This is a danger for European countries. Hence I am asking if Jesus asked people to help others even if it puts themselves in danger? Jesus said we should help everybody, he didn’t specify anything about putting yourself in danger, or not. So who is endangering your life to the extent you don’t think you should follow Jesus’s teachings? I can love thy neighbor and help any person who is in need. Doesn't mean I have to welcome everyman that is invading our boarders simply because they know what our government can provide for people. Genuine refugees/asylum seekers are welcome with open arms but thats not what's happening Isn’t it? What makes you qualified to say that?" What makes me qualified is by being a citizen of the crown combined with facts and figures rather than being someone who lives in a fairy tale, deep down knows it isn't going to end well but are too stubborn to admit it because they have labelled people racists/nazis for simply not wanting their homeland turn to shit | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. " Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 " Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. " I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. " But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. " This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. " Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal." Most politicians(even left wing) have pointed out that this is dangerous. I am active on Reddit and even the ultra leftists in the labour UK subreddit have come around to admit that the situation isn't sustainable when they discussed this incident. The same people who were critical of Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms are now supporting her. Same with Twitter. It looks like you are the abnormal one here. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal." It's not about being fearful as I don't live my life in fear. More pissed of towards the government for just allowing it to happen when in reality it wouldn't be that difficult to put a stop to it. You live in a bubble | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal. Most politicians(even left wing) have pointed out that this is dangerous. I am active on Reddit and even the ultra leftists in the labour UK subreddit have come around to admit that the situation isn't sustainable when they discussed this incident. The same people who were critical of Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms are now supporting her. Same with Twitter. It looks like you are the abnormal one here. " If you think Reddit is a reflection of society then you really should think about taking some time away from the internet. There’s a reason the term ‘Reddit brain’ was coined. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal. Most politicians(even left wing) have pointed out that this is dangerous. I am active on Reddit and even the ultra leftists in the labour UK subreddit have come around to admit that the situation isn't sustainable when they discussed this incident. The same people who were critical of Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms are now supporting her. Same with Twitter. It looks like you are the abnormal one here. If you think Reddit is a reflection of society then you really should think about taking some time away from the internet. There’s a reason the term ‘Reddit brain’ was coined." Seriously, it’s not good for your mental health. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal. Most politicians(even left wing) have pointed out that this is dangerous. I am active on Reddit and even the ultra leftists in the labour UK subreddit have come around to admit that the situation isn't sustainable when they discussed this incident. The same people who were critical of Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms are now supporting her. Same with Twitter. It looks like you are the abnormal one here. If you think Reddit is a reflection of society then you really should think about taking some time away from the internet. There’s a reason the term ‘Reddit brain’ was coined. " Where did I say that? Pretty much every post you make on this thread has at least one lame strawman argument like this 😂 Reddit is generally on the extreme left. Especially the Labour UK subreddit. They were even critical of Mahmood's policies. If even the people on extreme left have changed their tune on immigration, it's definitely a signal worth considering. Not to mention the fact that lots politicians across the spectrum have called this a dangerous spectrum. " Seriously, it’s not good for your mental health." So cute 😘 Looking at a dangerous event and knowing that it's dangerous is a good sign of mental stability. Acting otherwise is not and may imply self destructive behaviour. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal. Most politicians(even left wing) have pointed out that this is dangerous. I am active on Reddit and even the ultra leftists in the labour UK subreddit have come around to admit that the situation isn't sustainable when they discussed this incident. The same people who were critical of Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms are now supporting her. Same with Twitter. It looks like you are the abnormal one here. If you think Reddit is a reflection of society then you really should think about taking some time away from the internet. There’s a reason the term ‘Reddit brain’ was coined. Where did I say that? Pretty much every post you make on this thread has at least one lame strawman argument like this 😂 Reddit is generally on the extreme left. Especially the Labour UK subreddit. They were even critical of Mahmood's policies. If even the people on extreme left have changed their tune on immigration, it's definitely a signal worth considering. Not to mention the fact that lots politicians across the spectrum have called this a dangerous spectrum. " *dangerous precedent | |||
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" I accept that many people risk their lives to get to Europe. What I'm saying is that getting 60,000 together to all risk their lives at the same time requires far more coordination and organisation than just relaxing a border. I have already answered this too. It doesn't need government coordination. 60,000 people didn't need coordinating just a few days back. The only difference is that they will need boats this time. The people trafficking business is very efficient and can easily handle this. Morocco exposed Spain's vulnerability on the border of Ceuta, a small town of 80,000 people in Africa that physically shares a land border with Morocco. You can't extrapolate that to say that all of Spain's borders are the same and have the same requirements. Are you saying that Spain's borders are well protected and it doesn't allow random people to show up in boats? Statistics say otherwise." But you know where Ceuta is, surely you can see just geographically that relaxing the border to allow 60,000 people easier access to the city is a whole lot different to getting 60,000 on boats to cross a sea..? 'Random' people? Like everywhere, illegal immigration happens. I'd obviously rather there was no need for people to turn to drastic measures but that's not the world we live in. And so a number of measures are taken to reduce the number as much as possible, including agreements with neighbouring countries. But the border with Ceuta is not the same as the coast of Andalucia, Murcia etc. As said before, Spain has over 5km of coastline to protect. | |||
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" But you know where Ceuta is, surely you can see just geographically that relaxing the border to allow 60,000 people easier access to the city is a whole lot different to getting 60,000 on boats to cross a sea..? " Seriously, how many times should I repeat this? There are numerous people already taking even longer routes to Europe. Why do you think that sending 60,000 people to Spain by boat is more difficult? The people trafficking business is efficient enough to handle this easily. " 'Random' people? Like everywhere, illegal immigration happens. I'd obviously rather there was no need for people to turn to drastic measures but that's not the world we live in. " They are random people. Morocco is a safe country. Don't tell me that these people are "refugees" who need help. " And so a number of measures are taken to reduce the number as much as possible, including agreements with neighbouring countries. " And that agreement with Morocco is exactly what is at the risk of being broken. A country must protect its borders first. These agreements must always be secondary measures because anyone can suddenly withdraw from these agreements. " But the border with Ceuta is not the same as the coast of Andalucia, Murcia etc. As said before, Spain has over 5km of coastline to protect. " Do you read my posts before replying? I have replied to this already. I am tired of repeating the same thing. Please go read my previous post. | |||
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"I really don't understand, I'm sorry. Relaxing a border to allow 60,000 people through is relatively straightforward and plausibly, however improbably, deniable. Gathering an armada of 60,000 people, and sailing across an ocean on rubber boats, risking their lives in what would be a pretty terrifying ordeal is somewhat more difficult. I'm well aware people do that. I'm not disputing that people don't do that. My point is that a state sponsored move of sending 60,000 people across a sea is many, many levels more difficult that relaxing a border. I don't understand how they could be the same level of difficulty! Or whilst we're at it exactly what the point would be." Repeating myself yet again here: - You just saw people literally trying to swim around and lose their lives. Would the same people be worried about taking boats? Not at all. - Many people already take even longer boat journeys to reach Europe. The people who are happy to risk a swim to Ceuta wouldn't mind taking a boat trip to Spain. - Logistics are easily taken care of by the people trafficking gangs. The state just has to give them the message and relax the border controls. So it has been already shown that "people won't do this because it's scary" or "logistics will be difficult" aren't valid evidence for why such a thing wouldn't happen. " Or whilst we're at it exactly what the point would be. " What was the point of them doing it just a couple of days back? It's a threat. What's the point of Russia pushing immigrants towards Europe? To threaten and destabilise Europe. If the rest of the European countries grow a pair like Poland and fought back, they will stop doing this. | |||
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"I really don't understand, I'm sorry. Relaxing a border to allow 60,000 people through is relatively straightforward and plausibly, however improbably, deniable. Gathering an armada of 60,000 people, and sailing across an ocean on rubber boats, risking their lives in what would be a pretty terrifying ordeal is somewhat more difficult. I'm well aware people do that. I'm not disputing that people don't do that. My point is that a state sponsored move of sending 60,000 people across a sea is many, many levels more difficult that relaxing a border. I don't understand how they could be the same level of difficulty! Or whilst we're at it exactly what the point would be. Repeating myself yet again here: - You just saw people literally trying to swim around and lose their lives. Would the same people be worried about taking boats? Not at all. - Many people already take even longer boat journeys to reach Europe. The people who are happy to risk a swim to Ceuta wouldn't mind taking a boat trip to Spain. - Logistics are easily taken care of by the people trafficking gangs. The state just has to give them the message and relax the border controls. So it has been already shown that "people won't do this because it's scary" or "logistics will be difficult" aren't valid evidence for why such a thing wouldn't happen. Or whilst we're at it exactly what the point would be. What was the point of them doing it just a couple of days back? It's a threat. What's the point of Russia pushing immigrants towards Europe? To threaten and destabilise Europe. If the rest of the European countries grow a pair like Poland and fought back, they will stop doing this." I just want to make sure we're both talking about the same Ceuta here. Running through the Moroccan border which had been 'relaxed' to swim around about 5 minutes, and getting on a rubber boat to cross a 20km sea are two quite different things. I'm not saying that nobody would do it. I'm not saying that nobody currently risks their lives to do it. What I'm saying is they are vastly different things. You're assuming Morocco wants to destabilise Europe. Why? It's more the case that they have specific grievances against this Spanish government. | |||
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" Running through the Moroccan border which had been 'relaxed' to swim around about 5 minutes, and getting on a rubber boat to cross a 20km sea are two quite different things. I'm not saying that nobody would do it. I'm not saying that nobody currently risks their lives to do it. What I'm saying is they are vastly different things. " You are pretending like the swim they did yesterday was easy. 67 people died. The risk of doing the swim to Ceuta and taking a boat to Spain are both almost same but going to Spain has more benefits. " You're assuming Morocco wants to destabilise Europe. Why? It's more the case that they have specific grievances against this Spanish government. " Why did they unleash 60,000 people in Ceuta? Because of the Algeria issue? If there is a bigger problem, they will try to do this to Spain. Thanks to Schengen area, anything that affects Spain is going to affect the other countries. End of the day, a country must take responsibility of its own borders and defend it. It shouldn't rely on the mercy of its neighbours. | |||
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" Running through the Moroccan border which had been 'relaxed' to swim around about 5 minutes, and getting on a rubber boat to cross a 20km sea are two quite different things. I'm not saying that nobody would do it. I'm not saying that nobody currently risks their lives to do it. What I'm saying is they are vastly different things. You are pretending like the swim they did yesterday was easy. 67 people died. The risk of doing the swim to Ceuta and taking a boat to Spain are both almost same but going to Spain has more benefits. You're assuming Morocco wants to destabilise Europe. Why? It's more the case that they have specific grievances against this Spanish government. Why did they unleash 60,000 people in Ceuta? Because of the Algeria issue? If there is a bigger problem, they will try to do this to Spain. Thanks to Schengen area, anything that affects Spain is going to affect the other countries. End of the day, a country must take responsibility of its own borders and defend it. It shouldn't rely on the mercy of its neighbours." I'm not pretending the swim is easy. It's not. What I'm saying is that it's a different level of difficulty than getting on a rubber boat and sailing 20km across an open sea. Spain and Morocco are allies, they work together on projects all the time. This is an extra-ordinary event. Spain does take care of it's borders. Part of that is working with Morocco particularly in Ceuta and Melilla. Over the course of a year there are very few people who attempt to get there illegally. You seem to be wanting Spain to gear up for an invasion that is never going to happen. | |||
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" I'm not pretending the swim is easy. It's not. What I'm saying is that it's a different level of difficulty than getting on a rubber boat and sailing 20km across an open sea. " Repeating myself again - Every year, lots of people do even longer journeys by boat. " Spain and Morocco are allies, they work together on projects all the time. This is an extra-ordinary event. " Repeating myself again - Morocco just proved that they can't be trusted. " Spain does take care of it's borders. Part of that is working with Morocco particularly in Ceuta and Melilla. Over the course of a year there are very few people who attempt to get there illegally. " Annually, about 60,000 immigrants land in Spain. And that's because, Greece and Italy are better options for them. For immigrants from Morocco, Spain is a better option. " You seem to be wanting Spain to gear up for an invasion that is never going to happen." That's what they said about Russia. Morocco just proved that they are capable of doing this. One must be utterly naive to pretend like it's all fine. | |||
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"Okay. You're completely right. Morocco is on the verge of sending 60,000 Moroccans to Spain on boats. Spain needs to forget everything they're doing with Morocco and treat them like Russia. And if possible, would be fantastic if they could turn the Alborán sea into a military zone constantly patrolled by the Spanish navy. Sounds fantastic. " I mean, Morocco just weaponised immigration against Spain trying to gain diplomatic advantage. I would prefer any country in Spain's position to show some strength instead of bending over. Having the navy patrolling the sea isn't going to affect anyone. And it's much better than kneeling in front of Morocco. | |||
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" You’re not in danger though, and Europe is not a person. Then why is Putin pushing immigrants across? For the well being of Europe? 😂 Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. I don't think so. So I don't have to say it. But don’t make yourself look even more foolish by trying to say that because you think an entire continent is in danger then individuals cannot be helped. This is what happens when you copy paste arguments from left wing echo chambers. Most of them don't stand up to scrutiny because they are never scrutinised in these echo chambers. You just saw Morocco manage to push 60,000 people in one day. If you think this isn't a dangerous precedent, I can't help you. Fortunate, most people are sane enough to admit that this is dangerous for the country. Whatever was done to you to make you this fearful, I feel truly sorry. But honestly, this level of paranoia is not normal. Most politicians(even left wing) have pointed out that this is dangerous. I am active on Reddit and even the ultra leftists in the labour UK subreddit have come around to admit that the situation isn't sustainable when they discussed this incident. The same people who were critical of Shabana Mahmood's immigration reforms are now supporting her. Same with Twitter. It looks like you are the abnormal one here. If you think Reddit is a reflection of society then you really should think about taking some time away from the internet. There’s a reason the term ‘Reddit brain’ was coined. Where did I say that? Pretty much every post you make on this thread has at least one lame strawman argument like this 😂 Reddit is generally on the extreme left. Especially the Labour UK subreddit. They were even critical of Mahmood's policies. If even the people on extreme left have changed their tune on immigration, it's definitely a signal worth considering. Not to mention the fact that lots politicians across the spectrum have called this a dangerous spectrum. Seriously, it’s not good for your mental health. So cute 😘 Looking at a dangerous event and knowing that it's dangerous is a good sign of mental stability. Acting otherwise is not and may imply self destructive behaviour." The fundamental mistake you are making is deeming an individual as not worthy of being helped because of the actions of a nation. If you cannot see how that is the complete antithesis of Jesus’s teachings, then I’m afraid there is no helping you. Individuals are not nations, and nations are not individuals. To treat them as if they are goes down a very dangerous path, and we’ve seen where that path leads. | |||
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" The fundamental mistake you are making is deeming an individual as not worthy of being helped because of the actions of a nation. If you cannot see how that is the complete antithesis of Jesus’s teachings, then I’m afraid there is no helping you. " If you keep making these lame strawman arguments, then I can't help you either. " Individuals are not nations, and nations are not individuals. To treat them as if they are goes down a very dangerous path, and we’ve seen where that path leads." I never did. Second strawman argument in a single post. Boy you are on a roll. | |||
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"I think the next World Cup is being jointly held by Spain and Morocco along with Portugal. Sounds fun. "Do they have any games in Ceuta though? | |||
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" ...Europe is not a person. ... Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. " According to this logic, then if someone destitute breaks into your house, you should clothe, feed and shelter them, to the detriment of your own family. You appear to be interpreting Christianity to suit your own point. Even within the Anglican church (if we're taking about the religion of the country) there is debate on the issue of immigration and its limits. Cherry picking one fragment of a sentence and deriving a political argument is... dishonest. If you want to make this argument (presumably as a non Christian?), then why not look into what the spectrum of Church leaders have had to say on the matter? You will find sympathetic arguments, don't worry. And also some against. But at least you will be quoting an actual Christian position. | |||
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"I think the next World Cup is being jointly held by Spain and Morocco along with Portugal. Sounds fun.
Do they have any games in Ceuta though? "Maybe it's been earmarked as the "Fanzone". | |||
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" ...Europe is not a person. ... Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. According to this logic, then if someone destitute breaks into your house, you should clothe, feed and shelter them, to the detriment of your own family. You appear to be interpreting Christianity to suit your own point. Even within the Anglican church (if we're taking about the religion of the country) there is debate on the issue of immigration and its limits. Cherry picking one fragment of a sentence and deriving a political argument is... dishonest. If you want to make this argument (presumably as a non Christian?), then why not look into what the spectrum of Church leaders have had to say on the matter? You will find sympathetic arguments, don't worry. And also some against. But at least you will be quoting an actual Christian position. " I don’t need to look at what church leaders say, Jesus Christ was pretty fucking specific about how we should treat those in need. If you e read the Bible and you think to yourself ‘Jesus would definitely turn away refugees because Putin has pushed them towards Europe’ then you’ve spectacularly misunderstood the entire thing. | |||
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" ...Europe is not a person. ... Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. According to this logic, then if someone destitute breaks into your house, you should clothe, feed and shelter them, to the detriment of your own family. You appear to be interpreting Christianity to suit your own point. Even within the Anglican church (if we're taking about the religion of the country) there is debate on the issue of immigration and its limits. Cherry picking one fragment of a sentence and deriving a political argument is... dishonest. If you want to make this argument (presumably as a non Christian?), then why not look into what the spectrum of Church leaders have had to say on the matter? You will find sympathetic arguments, don't worry. And also some against. But at least you will be quoting an actual Christian position. I don’t need to look at what church leaders say, Jesus Christ was pretty fucking specific about how we should treat those in need. If you e read the Bible and you think to yourself ‘Jesus would definitely turn away refugees because Putin has pushed them towards Europe’ then you’ve spectacularly misunderstood the entire thing." why are your u bringing a book of fairytales about someone who didnt exist into your argument? You do realise Christianity is bollox just like islam and Judaism is, there was no ine called jesus christ and there is no god either, religion is fir thise who cant handle the fact that we are just one step up from apes, | |||
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" ...Europe is not a person. ... Look, if you think Jesus talked a load of shit, then just say. According to this logic, then if someone destitute breaks into your house, you should clothe, feed and shelter them, to the detriment of your own family. You appear to be interpreting Christianity to suit your own point. Even within the Anglican church (if we're taking about the religion of the country) there is debate on the issue of immigration and its limits. Cherry picking one fragment of a sentence and deriving a political argument is... dishonest. If you want to make this argument (presumably as a non Christian?), then why not look into what the spectrum of Church leaders have had to say on the matter? You will find sympathetic arguments, don't worry. And also some against. But at least you will be quoting an actual Christian position. I don’t need to look at what church leaders say, Jesus Christ was pretty fucking specific about how we should treat those in need. If you e read the Bible and you think to yourself ‘Jesus would definitely turn away refugees because Putin has pushed them towards Europe’ then you’ve spectacularly misunderstood the entire thing.why are your u bringing a book of fairytales about someone who didnt exist into your argument? You do realise Christianity is bollox just like islam and Judaism is, there was no ine called jesus christ and there is no god either, religion is fir thise who cant handle the fact that we are just one step up from apes, " I originally made a post about how those who keep telling us that Britain is a ‘Christian’ country, never seem to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. | |||
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"France complaining today about Reforms intention to use the Royal Navy to return small boats to France. " Were they complaining, or pointing out that it would violate both international law, and their sovereignty? | |||
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"France complaining today about Reforms intention to use the Royal Navy to return small boats to France. Were they complaining, or pointing out that it would violate both international law, and their sovereignty?" What international law? | |||
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" I don’t need to look at what church leaders say, Jesus Christ was pretty fucking specific about how we should treat those in need. If you e read the Bible and you think to yourself ‘Jesus would definitely turn away refugees because Putin has pushed them towards Europe’ then you’ve spectacularly misunderstood the entire thing." Jesus for sure wasn't specific about Geopolitical situations of modern day. You just interpreted his teachings for the modern world that suits your agenda and pretending like you have this bulletproof argument against religious right wingers while all you have is a sieve full of holes. | |||
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"France complaining today about Reforms intention to use the Royal Navy to return small boats to France. Were they complaining, or pointing out that it would violate both international law, and their sovereignty?" I’m not sure France would have a particularly strong argument on their sovereignty being violated, the same people they are allowing to depart their shores and being paid handsomely to stop are attempting to violate UK border sovereignty...
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"France complaining today about Reforms intention to use the Royal Navy to return small boats to France. Were they complaining, or pointing out that it would violate both international law, and their sovereignty? I’m not sure France would have a particularly strong argument on their sovereignty being violated, the same people they are allowing to depart their shores and being paid handsomely to stop are attempting to violate UK border sovereignty...
"I think if we send naval vessels into French territorial waters without them giving permission, they’d have a particularly strong case for their sovereignty being violated. | |||
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"France complaining today about Reforms intention to use the Royal Navy to return small boats to France. Were they complaining, or pointing out that it would violate both international law, and their sovereignty? What international law?" Under Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, all member states are prohibited from using or threatening force against the "territorial integrity or political independence" of any other state. This principle is considered the cornerstone of modern international law. | |||
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"France complaining today about Reforms intention to use the Royal Navy to return small boats to France. Were they complaining, or pointing out that it would violate both international law, and their sovereignty? What international law? Under Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, all member states are prohibited from using or threatening force against the "territorial integrity or political independence" of any other state. This principle is considered the cornerstone of modern international law." I don't think anyone is threatening France. It looks like some people lost their way in boats when they left France. It's only humanitarian to take them back. Also, UN charters aren't laws. | |||
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" I don’t need to look at what church leaders say, Jesus Christ was pretty fucking specific about how we should treat those in need. If you e read the Bible and you think to yourself ‘Jesus would definitely turn away refugees because Putin has pushed them towards Europe’ then you’ve spectacularly misunderstood the entire thing. Jesus for sure wasn't specific about Geopolitical situations of modern day. You just interpreted his teachings for the modern world that suits your agenda and pretending like you have this bulletproof argument against religious right wingers while all you have is a sieve full of holes." Jesus didn’t need to be specific, he was pretty clear about loving your neighbour as you would yourself, and also loving your enemies. They had wars and refugees, back in those days too, you know. Jesus himself was a refugee, whose parents fled with him from Egypt because Herod was killing all the first born children. | |||
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