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Why hasnt brexit been a success?
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By *hagTonight OP Man 1 week ago
From the land of haribos. |
There are different opinions on this wether or not brexit has been a success, some say yes, some no and some are still undecided.about it, they are saying things like what do you call success and how the politicians didnt want brexit.
I would say that it has not been a success because of unrealistic expectations, it is resulting in a smaller economy 6-8%, not just that lower business investments and worker shortages to name some of it.
It would be interesting to see what your views on it is why it hasnt been a success or has it,.do you also agree that it have left a big gap in the economy as well?  |
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My daughter was half way through a study into Dementia at a university funded by the EU, the week we voted to leave all the funding was pulled, so they couldn't carry on with the research. Lots of academics lost their jobs because of this. Luckily she was offered a PhD course. People were blindsided by Farage and Johnson over the NHS and immigration and didn't look into the bigger implications. |
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"It has been neutral so far. We have had advantages and disadvantages. But there are more advantages to be had.
Pass the spliff "
Our goods exports went down but our service economy boomed after Brexit. We now have better control over the economy. Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU. |
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By *coptoCouple 1 week ago
Côte d'Azur & Great Yarmouth |
Some people (politicians and non-politicians alike) made lots of money out of Brexit; the campaigning before and the consequences after. They'd say it was a GREAT success.
Others shit out - I and my family amongst them - and are not so enamoured... |
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By *ermbiMan 1 week ago
Ballyshannon |
"It has been neutral so far. We have had advantages and disadvantages. But there are more advantages to be had.
Pass the spliff
Our goods exports went down but our service economy boomed after Brexit. We now have better control over the economy. Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU."
Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years |
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The only way that Brexit could have been a success is if we had changed our laws to remove those that were holding us back and introduced new ones to take advantage of our new found freedom. Whether that would have worked or not is a debatable point, but one thing's for certain - if we don't make any changes, we won't see any of the potential benefits. None of the governments that have been in charge since Brexit have been inclined to make any changes, so there's no chance of Brexit being a success.
Comparison of UK economic figures with the leading EU countries does not support the idea that the UK has taken an 8% hit. |
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Brexit has never happened the parliamentarians never wanted that result & both so called big parties are controlled by same globalists masters so democracy hasn't been allowed to be delivered as it doesn't fit WEF agendas & they wantbto deliver the Kalergi plan 2030 strikes us full of anxiety |
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"Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU."
"Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years"
The EU mandates a minimum level of 15% VAT on energy supplies, with an exemption down to 5% to combat unaffordability. Ireland dropped its rate down to 9% as a "temporary" measure, which is within the EU rules. Burnham's proposal is to drop VAT on energy to 0%, which is against EU rules.
The poster above is correct in saying that Burnham's proposal would not be possible if we were still in the EU. |
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"Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU.
Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years
The EU mandates a minimum level of 15% VAT on energy supplies, with an exemption down to 5% to combat unaffordability. Ireland dropped its rate down to 9% as a "temporary" measure, which is within the EU rules. Burnham's proposal is to drop VAT on energy to 0%, which is against EU rules.
The poster above is correct in saying that Burnham's proposal would not be possible if we were still in the EU."
I believe this is the same for sanatry products |
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"Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU.
Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years
The EU mandates a minimum level of 15% VAT on energy supplies, with an exemption down to 5% to combat unaffordability. Ireland dropped its rate down to 9% as a "temporary" measure, which is within the EU rules. Burnham's proposal is to drop VAT on energy to 0%, which is against EU rules.
The poster above is correct in saying that Burnham's proposal would not be possible if we were still in the EU."
That's my understanding as well and a quick Google confirms reducing to 0% was not possible pre Brexit. Also the import tariff reductions that Rachael Reeves made a couple of months ago to help with costs would also not have been possible. |
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By *ermbiMan 1 week ago
Ballyshannon |
"Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU.
Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years
The EU mandates a minimum level of 15% VAT on energy supplies, with an exemption down to 5% to combat unaffordability. Ireland dropped its rate down to 9% as a "temporary" measure, which is within the EU rules. Burnham's proposal is to drop VAT on energy to 0%, which is against EU rules.
The poster above is correct in saying that Burnham's proposal would not be possible if we were still in the EU.
That's my understanding as well and a quick Google confirms reducing to 0% was not possible pre Brexit. Also the import tariff reductions that Rachael Reeves made a couple of months ago to help with costs would also not have been possible. "
Under revised rules adopted in 2022 EU countries can drop rates to 0% for a limited period as long as they comply with the revised framework |
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"Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU.
Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years
The EU mandates a minimum level of 15% VAT on energy supplies, with an exemption down to 5% to combat unaffordability. Ireland dropped its rate down to 9% as a "temporary" measure, which is within the EU rules. Burnham's proposal is to drop VAT on energy to 0%, which is against EU rules.
The poster above is correct in saying that Burnham's proposal would not be possible if we were still in the EU.
That's my understanding as well and a quick Google confirms reducing to 0% was not possible pre Brexit. Also the import tariff reductions that Rachael Reeves made a couple of months ago to help with costs would also not have been possible.
Under revised rules adopted in 2022 EU countries can drop rates to 0% for a limited period as long as they comply with the revised framework"
And you don't see a problem with this? End of the day, UK has more control over its own economy, instead of having to rely on the EU bureaucrats. Issues like these crop up frequently in the EU. For example, Germany did not want the EU to impose high Tariffs on the Chinese cars because if the Chinese enforced retaliatory tariffs, it's the German car companies which will be fucked. And the EU went ahead with the tariffs anyway.
We took control of our economy at the cost of some trade with the EU. So success of Brexit depends on what we do with the freedom we have now. |
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"Things like dropping VAT for electricity bills would have been impossible under the EU.
Your assertion that VAT being dropped under the EU is wrong. This can happen and has happened in the past. The Irish Govt reduced VAT on gas and electricity for a period in May 2022 during cost of living crisis.
Here we have a Brexiteer trumpeting the benefit of Brexit and illustrating incorrectly a comparison to EU situation. Same disinfornation being trotted out after 10 years
The EU mandates a minimum level of 15% VAT on energy supplies, with an exemption down to 5% to combat unaffordability. Ireland dropped its rate down to 9% as a "temporary" measure, which is within the EU rules. Burnham's proposal is to drop VAT on energy to 0%, which is against EU rules.
The poster above is correct in saying that Burnham's proposal would not be possible if we were still in the EU.
That's my understanding as well and a quick Google confirms reducing to 0% was not possible pre Brexit. Also the import tariff reductions that Rachael Reeves made a couple of months ago to help with costs would also not have been possible.
Under revised rules adopted in 2022 EU countries can drop rates to 0% for a limited period as long as they comply with the revised framework"
Those revised rules came up during my search and were a bit confusing (to me) but according to every report the revised rules are not a blanket permission and instead could only be implemented if certain historical situations had occurred. The UK did not qualify and therefore could not reduce VAT below 5%. BBC article sets it out a bit clearer:
EU countries have been co-ordinating their VAT rates since 1992, as part of building up the single market and ensuring there is no unfair competition across national borders.
Under EU rules, countries must apply a minimum standard VAT rate of 15%. They have an option of applying one or two reduced rates, no lower than 5%, to certain specified goods on a pre-approved list.
Further reduction of the VAT rate, including to 0%, is also allowed but only for the goods which were taxed at that rate before 1991 and since then.
Changes to the VAT rules require unanimous agreement of all 28 EU countries.
The UK's standard VAT rate is 20%, so, within the current rules, the UK government has some flexibility to bring it down to 15%, if it wanted to.
It is right to say the UK cannot remove the VAT on household gas and electricity bills.
Although the UK charged 0% VAT on domestic fuel bills in 1991, the Conservative government introduced a VAT rate of 8% in 1993. This was later lowered to 5% under Labour. Under the EU rules, this is now the lowest VAT rate possible for British domestic fuel bills |
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"Under revised rules adopted in 2022 EU countries can drop rates to 0% for a limited period as long as they comply with the revised framework"
Council Directive (EU) 2022/542 does allow the dropping of VAT rates to zero, but only for "goods and services considered to cover basic needs, namely those related to the supply of foodstuffs, water, medicines, pharmaceutical products, health and hygiene products, transport of persons and certain cultural items (books, newspapers and periodicals)". Energy is not included in the list of things that can be zero-rated.
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It has been catastrophic for the UK economically, so has caused harm to the majority of its citizens. Of course there are likely to be some pros as well as cons but the pros are insignificant, by comparison. Just undertaking the changes have cost many £billions which are just wasted investments, off other national assets 
Much of the touted sovereignty was already ours.
Unfortunately, the reason we had the vote was not for the benefit of the UK but for maintenance of power, held by the conservatives, in their _anifesto. A range of chancers and charlatans swooped in and ensured they did very nicely, thank you.
With permanent large economic damage now, it's tragic. Everyone poorer isn't a great place to be in. |
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"It has been catastrophic ..."
Well, it just hasn't.
You can argue that it has hit the economy somewhat, but the country is still going along much as before, and the economy is tracking at about the same rate as the other major European economies.
It's impossible to say whether we'd today be in a better position if we stayed in the EU, but we can be certain that Brexit wasn't a catastrophe. |
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"It has been catastrophic for the UK economically, so has caused harm to the majority of its citizens. Of course there are likely to be some pros as well as cons but the pros are insignificant, by comparison. Just undertaking the changes have cost many £billions which are just wasted investments, off other national assets
Much of the touted sovereignty was already ours.
Unfortunately, the reason we had the vote was not for the benefit of the UK but for maintenance of power, held by the conservatives, in their _anifesto. A range of chancers and charlatans swooped in and ensured they did very nicely, thank you.
With permanent large economic damage now, it's tragic. Everyone poorer isn't a great place to be in. "
There is some confusion here I believe, or maybe I'm confused?
Who were the chancers and charlatans that swooped in and did very nicely?
The point you make on the economic catastrophe has been picked up a post above. |
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By *ydaz70Man 7 days ago
Rotherham /newquay |
"There are different opinions on this wether or not brexit has been a success, some say yes, some no and some are still undecided.about it, they are saying things like what do you call success and how the politicians didnt want brexit.
I would say that it has not been a success because of unrealistic expectations, it is resulting in a smaller economy 6-8%, not just that lower business investments and worker shortages to name some of it.
It would be interesting to see what your views on it is why it hasnt been a success or has it,.do you also agree that it have left a big gap in the economy as well? "
it's been ok so far although business will say different but that's business moaning as usual for me it's because we don't have politicians that want it first thing I'd do is sack those in government that are fighting against it take it from there. |
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"Isolationism in an increasing global environment doesn't make sense. "
Nobody voted for isolationism. Even those who voted for Brexit expected that we would still be trading with the EU afterwards. |
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By *ermbiMan 7 days ago
Ballyshannon |
"Isolationism in an increasing global environment doesn't make sense.
Nobody voted for isolationism. Even those who voted for Brexit expected that we would still be trading with the EU afterwards."
Isolationism was very much part of the campaign. Making own way in the world. As a smaller trading entity the trade deals were never going to be huge |
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"Isolationism in an increasing global environment doesn't make sense."
"Nobody voted for isolationism. Even those who voted for Brexit expected that we would still be trading with the EU afterwards."
"Isolationism was very much part of the campaign."
It was? Then you'll have no difficulty providing a quote from a Brexit leader that said we didn't want to trade with the EU any more. Any politician will do. |
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By *ermbiMan 7 days ago
Ballyshannon |
"Isolationism in an increasing global environment doesn't make sense.
Nobody voted for isolationism. Even those who voted for Brexit expected that we would still be trading with the EU afterwards.
Isolationism was very much part of the campaign.
It was? Then you'll have no difficulty providing a quote from a Brexit leader that said we didn't want to trade with the EU any more. Any politician will do."
If you read back my comment i said isolationism without reference to the EU |
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"Isolationism in an increasing global environment doesn't make sense.
Nobody voted for isolationism. Even those who voted for Brexit expected that we would still be trading with the EU afterwards.
Isolationism was very much part of the campaign. Making own way in the world. As a smaller trading entity the trade deals were never going to be huge"
Then how come our national exports increased 22% in value in the half decade to last year?
That's unprecedented growth. All over now sadly.
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"Isolationism in an increasing global environment doesn't make sense."
"Nobody voted for isolationism. Even those who voted for Brexit expected that we would still be trading with the EU afterwards."
"Isolationism was very much part of the campaign."
"It was? Then you'll have no difficulty providing a quote from a Brexit leader that said we didn't want to trade with the EU any more. Any politician will do."
"If you read back my comment i said isolationism without reference to the EU"
So you're agreeing that nobody said that we would be dropping trade with the EU.
Just so that we all understand you - what do you think 'isolationism' means? |
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The UK didn't have a clue what life outside the EU was like or what they wanted from any social or economic deal. That, plus Barnier, Tusk and their team were far more informed and skilled at their job than the British delegation.
However, anybody who loves customs, administration, red tape and delays must be delighted
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By *iebonCouple 6 days ago
Doncaster |
Not been a success due to the politicians tasked to carry it out, didn't want it. They done the bare minimum required, they done the best deals for them and not the public.
Once the result were in, we should have had a cross party team and business leaders across the country working on this.
Remember we have lots to offer. Trade deals have been carried out to benefit the other countries, with us not getting equal terms. No business leader would sign up for that, so why did we as a country?
Politicians not having run a business don't have a clue on what they should be asking for. |
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"Not been a success due to the politicians tasked to carry it out, didn't want it. They done the bare minimum required, they done the best deals for them and not the public.
Once the result were in, we should have had a cross party team and business leaders across the country working on this.
Remember we have lots to offer. Trade deals have been carried out to benefit the other countries, with us not getting equal terms. No business leader would sign up for that, so why did we as a country?
Politicians not having run a business don't have a clue on what they should be asking for."
Boris Johnson, when he was Foreign Secretary in 2018, did say “fuck business”. That was his reply when asked about business leaders’ concerns over the economic disruption that a hard Brexit might cause. A clear example of no serious engagement with the issue. |
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"Boris Johnson, when he was Foreign Secretary in 2018, did say “fuck business”. That was his reply when asked about business leaders’ concerns over the economic disruption that a hard Brexit might cause. A clear example of no serious engagement with the issue."
You mean - that's what he's rumoured to have said. There's no recording of it, and no reputable journalist heard him say it. 2018 was back in the good old days when politicians didn't swear if they thought there was a microphone about. |
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"Boris Johnson, when he was Foreign Secretary in 2018, did say “fuck business”. That was his reply when asked about business leaders’ concerns over the economic disruption that a hard Brexit might cause. A clear example of no serious engagement with the issue.
You mean - that's what he's rumoured to have said. There's no recording of it, and no reputable journalist heard him say it. 2018 was back in the good old days when politicians didn't swear if they thought there was a microphone about."
Sure 😉 |
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Who knows if it's been a success or not because all the success criteria was a bunch of silly statements and numbers by idiots , and that could never be verified anyway. No one cared anyway, their minds were made up and mostly haven't changed, other than really dumb people who realised it really was a scam sometime after.
Things seem to have gotten much worse in the UK but how much worse largely depends on what media and social media you follow. The reality of have things got better is a case by case basis, not a summary's, based on hundreds maybe thousands of different variables to determine if life is better or worse for each person and whether Brexit impacted it and how much by , many of them like immigration you have no way of verifying all you know is what your chosen media wants you to believe or rather, what you choose to believe first, dictates which media you will follow to backup your racism or liberalism as being correct.
Also, some other stuff happened in the globall economy, there was a big virus (allegedly) and a couple of wars. No one is clever enough to work out how much Brexit stole vs these , not even BlowJo himself.
So the answer is, ask somebody on EastEnders, they know better than people here |
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