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Changing political views...
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By *oo hot OP Couple
over a year ago
North West |
All my life I have felt a natural association with conservative thinking. Mostly self employed and a believer in small government and generally lower taxation reinforced a belief that started with my admiration for how Mrs Thatcher modernised the country as I grew uop in the laste 1970's.
As I approach my mid fifties and I reflect on life with more melancholy, I find that all the reasons that I used to have to reinforce my conservative beliefs have now gone. I feel no attachment whatsoever to modern day conservatism and the way that the party conducted itself in the referendum has been the final straw for me.
What now though? Is it really possible to completely change core fundamental beliefs? Or is it only natural that with the passing of time and added maturity that attitudes changes? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I joined the Labour Party at 14 and have never once flinched in my belief - until now.
My values remain the same, but if Corbyn stays I will be leaving the party that have been such a large part of my life. It's really rather upsetting to even type this - it's like a big brother who you have always idolised has gone off the rails and is heading for disaster. |
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Have always been on the left. More left of centre than further to, although I fell out with new labour over Pfi as I feel it's the economic's of a household using a loan shark to get through the month..
Then again I despise that some have been allowed to live on welfare as a choice when they are capable of contributing to society, and have passed on that ethic to their children..
Which has led to this and past governments hammering some of the deserving of help to try and curb this..
Liked what May said in parts yesterday but being 57 and having heard them before will wait and see if she can deliver.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have always been on the left. More left of centre than further to, although I fell out with new labour over Pfi as I feel it's the economic's of a household using a loan shark to get through the month..
Then again I despise that some have been allowed to live on welfare as a choice when they are capable of contributing to society, and have passed on that ethic to their children..
Which has led to this and past governments hammering some of the deserving of help to try and curb this..
Liked what May said in parts yesterday but being 57 and having heard them before will wait and see if she can deliver.."
People should be given a job to earn the money they are given to support thier family and expected to work, too much of th can get the same money by not working mentality.
But in the same way that wages should reflect a living room wage not minimum wage |
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"Have always been on the left. More left of centre than further to, although I fell out with new labour over Pfi as I feel it's the economic's of a household using a loan shark to get through the month..
Then again I despise that some have been allowed to live on welfare as a choice when they are capable of contributing to society, and have passed on that ethic to their children..
Which has led to this and past governments hammering some of the deserving of help to try and curb this..
Liked what May said in parts yesterday but being 57 and having heard them before will wait and see if she can deliver..
People should be given a job to earn the money they are given to support thier family and expected to work, too much of th can get the same money by not working mentality.
But in the same way that wages should reflect a living room wage not minimum wage "
Agree. That people who are in employment are eligible for benefits due to the low levels of pay is a stupid and needless policy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have always been on the left. More left of centre than further to, although I fell out with new labour over Pfi as I feel it's the economic's of a household using a loan shark to get through the month..
Then again I despise that some have been allowed to live on welfare as a choice when they are capable of contributing to society, and have passed on that ethic to their children..
Which has led to this and past governments hammering some of the deserving of help to try and curb this..
Liked what May said in parts yesterday but being 57 and having heard them before will wait and see if she can deliver..
People should be given a job to earn the money they are given to support thier family and expected to work, too much of th can get the same money by not working mentality.
But in the same way that wages should reflect a living room wage not minimum wage
Agree. That people who are in employment are eligible for benefits due to the low levels of pay is a stupid and needless policy"
I was Labour in younger years then SNP
and although SNP are the only strong party in Scotland, I do not think I can vote for them again even though no other party comes close
so I think I will not be voting |
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OP, I started out as a Young Conservative, my local MP was Granters... Robert Grant Ferris, and I was a true believer in One Nation Conservatism (he made me believe). Then came Thatcher and over time I changed, it was not easy, it took much disillusionment. I am now a proud socialist! I now understand that one nation conservatism is a CON by the powerful and wealthy to keep the majority in servitude.
I hope one day everyone reaches an epiphany and see Toryism (Toadyism) as what it is, an instrument of self subjugation where the oppressed give the oppressors permission to exploit them for gain. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems."
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That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Have always been on the left. More left of centre than further to, although I fell out with new labour over Pfi as I feel it's the economic's of a household using a loan shark to get through the month..
Then again I despise that some have been allowed to live on welfare as a choice when they are capable of contributing to society, and have passed on that ethic to their children..
Which has led to this and past governments hammering some of the deserving of help to try and curb this..
Liked what May said in parts yesterday but being 57 and having heard them before will wait and see if she can deliver..
People should be given a job to earn the money they are given to support thier family and expected to work, too much of th can get the same money by not working mentality.
But in the same way that wages should reflect a living room wage not minimum wage "
Wages reflect supply, demand and producivity.
You can't just give people high pay in jobs that don't produce a lot and have plentiful supply. Not if you want to be internationally competitive anyway. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems..
That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well "
Better than the fucking 70's  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems..
That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well
Better than the fucking 70's "
.
Shut it you  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"All my life I have felt a natural association with conservative thinking. Mostly self employed and a believer in small government and generally lower taxation reinforced a belief that started with my admiration for how Mrs Thatcher modernised the country as I grew uop in the laste 1970's.
As I approach my mid fifties and I reflect on life with more melancholy, I find that all the reasons that I used to have to reinforce my conservative beliefs have now gone. I feel no attachment whatsoever to modern day conservatism and the way that the party conducted itself in the referendum has been the final straw for me.
What now though? Is it really possible to completely change core fundamental beliefs? Or is it only natural that with the passing of time and added maturity that attitudes changes? "
I think that many of us change or at least moderate our views over time. I know that I have.
It does not make the views you held any less valid. If one was cynical, one might say life wears you down eventually. If one was less cynical, one might say you gain insight from experience. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems..
That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well
Better than the fucking 70's .
Shut it you "
You just thought they were magical times because your pocket money tripled each year to keep up with inflation. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems..
That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well
Better than the fucking 70's .
Shut it you
You just thought they were magical times because your pocket money tripled each year to keep up with inflation. "
.
No it bought a pocket knife that I used to cut trees down with and set fire to!!!
I wasn't always this green  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems..
That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well "
Do you think extreme politics are better? |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Ledbury |
I was brought up in an old-left, socialist household. I guess I went to the right slightly as a kid.
The turning point in my politics was Blair winning in 1997 (I was 17). As his premiership unfolded, I became so disillusioned with mainstream politics and the Labour party who I came to see as a dispicable bunch of traitors.
I've always held broadly Marxist views (you can be hard, centre or "right" left and you still owe a lot of your ideology to Marx). I was a communist for a bit (note: the difference between "communist" and "Communist", the latter being "tankies"), but the thing that didn't ever sit well with me was the large statism of it all.
I guess for the last 5-10 years, I've been broadly left, utterly disillusioned with our political system and not really felt like giving a shit, because we are fucked either way.
I've recently been feeling the pull of Anarchism though, its small state, at least...
All this is in utter contradiction to my career in life, which tends to sit on the right of things. I just don't see how it defines me, you have to have a job (i'm self employed too)... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was brought up in an old-left, socialist household. I guess I went to the right slightly as a kid.
The turning point in my politics was Blair winning in 1997 (I was 17). As his premiership unfolded, I became so disillusioned with mainstream politics and the Labour party who I came to see as a dispicable bunch of traitors.
I've always held broadly Marxist views (you can be hard, centre or "right" left and you still owe a lot of your ideology to Marx). I was a communist for a bit (note: the difference between "communist" and "Communist", the latter being "tankies"), but the thing that didn't ever sit well with me was the large statism of it all.
I guess for the last 5-10 years, I've been broadly left, utterly disillusioned with our political system and not really felt like giving a shit, because we are fucked either way.
I've recently been feeling the pull of Anarchism though, its small state, at least...
All this is in utter contradiction to my career in life, which tends to sit on the right of things. I just don't see how it defines me, you have to have a job (i'm self employed too)..."
I've heard lefties say this about Marx, what exactly are we supposed to owe to him? No offence but I find his stuff to be drivel |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Ledbury |
"I was brought up in an old-left, socialist household. I guess I went to the right slightly as a kid.
The turning point in my politics was Blair winning in 1997 (I was 17). As his premiership unfolded, I became so disillusioned with mainstream politics and the Labour party who I came to see as a dispicable bunch of traitors.
I've always held broadly Marxist views (you can be hard, centre or "right" left and you still owe a lot of your ideology to Marx). I was a communist for a bit (note: the difference between "communist" and "Communist", the latter being "tankies"), but the thing that didn't ever sit well with me was the large statism of it all.
I guess for the last 5-10 years, I've been broadly left, utterly disillusioned with our political system and not really felt like giving a shit, because we are fucked either way.
I've recently been feeling the pull of Anarchism though, its small state, at least...
All this is in utter contradiction to my career in life, which tends to sit on the right of things. I just don't see how it defines me, you have to have a job (i'm self employed too)...
I've heard lefties say this about Marx, what exactly are we supposed to owe to him? No offence but I find his stuff to be drivel "
The notion of state ownership of anything - see: the NHS. Marx was quick to talk about universal sufferage too. The weekend. Paid holiday.
Have a peruse of "an introduction to Marx" by Rius.
Marx is not only "capital" |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"All my life I have felt a natural association with conservative thinking. Mostly self employed and a believer in small government and generally lower taxation reinforced a belief that started with my admiration for how Mrs Thatcher modernised the country as I grew uop in the laste 1970's.
As I approach my mid fifties and I reflect on life with more melancholy, I find that all the reasons that I used to have to reinforce my conservative beliefs have now gone. I feel no attachment whatsoever to modern day conservatism and the way that the party conducted itself in the referendum has been the final straw for me.
What now though? Is it really possible to completely change core fundamental beliefs? Or is it only natural that with the passing of time and added maturity that attitudes changes? "
Everyones views and opions change over time, usually leaning towards a more moderate way of thinking.
I'm certainly more moderate. I'm only extreme right now  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I was brought up in an old-left, socialist household. I guess I went to the right slightly as a kid.
The turning point in my politics was Blair winning in 1997 (I was 17). As his premiership unfolded, I became so disillusioned with mainstream politics and the Labour party who I came to see as a dispicable bunch of traitors.
I've always held broadly Marxist views (you can be hard, centre or "right" left and you still owe a lot of your ideology to Marx). I was a communist for a bit (note: the difference between "communist" and "Communist", the latter being "tankies"), but the thing that didn't ever sit well with me was the large statism of it all.
I guess for the last 5-10 years, I've been broadly left, utterly disillusioned with our political system and not really felt like giving a shit, because we are fucked either way.
I've recently been feeling the pull of Anarchism though, its small state, at least...
All this is in utter contradiction to my career in life, which tends to sit on the right of things. I just don't see how it defines me, you have to have a job (i'm self employed too)...
I've heard lefties say this about Marx, what exactly are we supposed to owe to him? No offence but I find his stuff to be drivel
The notion of state ownership of anything - see: the NHS. Marx was quick to talk about universal sufferage too. The weekend. Paid holiday.
Have a peruse of "an introduction to Marx" by Rius.
Marx is not only "capital""
Well thanks for answering the question but I find it slightly ridiculous to try and credit him with those things. But I understand why some people would try.
I always wondered why Marx never bothered to read Adam Smith and forgot to factor changes in productivity into his analysis. Doing so would have changed his conclusion... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I have always been a Labour supporter, but I can't stand Corbyn and have recently joined the party to get rid of him and to try and drag the party back towards the centre. I dont like the polarisation of all the parties to the left or the right. I think it is a dangerous way to deal with problems..
That's true....I mean the thirty years or so of centrist governments have worked out really well
Do you think extreme politics are better?"
.
Depends what you call extreme, ukip maybe extreme to you and normal to somebody else, personally I call extreme, parties that enforce policies against the will of the people, communist/fascist.
The way our system is set up, we won't really get extreme parties, it's not pr for a reason and designed for establishment politics for that reason.
It has its down sides and up sides |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change."
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change.
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them. "
So don't let people have a say because you don't agree with their views or beliefs? How enlightened. I think that was how Hitler started |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change.
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them.
So don't let people have a say because you don't agree with their views or beliefs? How enlightened. I think that was how Hitler started "
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Just because everyone is allowed their own opinion, it doesn't mean all opinions are equally valid. There are these inconvenient things in the world called facts and if people persist in believing counter-factual things then no I don't want their bullshit represented in our laws. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change.
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them.
So don't let people have a say because you don't agree with their views or beliefs? How enlightened. I think that was how Hitler started
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Just because everyone is allowed their own opinion, it doesn't mean all opinions are equally valid. There are these inconvenient things in the world called facts and if people persist in believing counter-factual things then no I don't want their bullshit represented in our laws. "
Which is why theres nothing wrong with the way we carry out elections now. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change.
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them.
So don't let people have a say because you don't agree with their views or beliefs? How enlightened. I think that was how Hitler started
Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Just because everyone is allowed their own opinion, it doesn't mean all opinions are equally valid. There are these inconvenient things in the world called facts and if people persist in believing counter-factual things then no I don't want their bullshit represented in our laws.
Which is why theres nothing wrong with the way we carry out elections now. I think we are saying the same thing in different ways "
Right! I'm happy (enough) that they get to cast a meaningless vote in a FPP system but I dread to think what would happen if their views counted for something. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change.
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them. "
The problem is that the extremists on both sides of the spectrum are gaining ground - they have taken over the Labour Party and could have easily done so with the Tories too.
PR can contain them. The old 2-party system and FPTP is failing to do that any longer - there's a widening crack in the keel and they are seeping in. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"For the first time ever, I've become an advocate of PR - that's a definite change.
Seriously? The problem with PR is that about 25% of any given population in an economically advanced democracy are complete cretins. The last thing I want is a political system that represents them.
The problem is that the extremists on both sides of the spectrum are gaining ground - they have taken over the Labour Party and could have easily done so with the Tories too.
PR can contain them. The old 2-party system and FPTP is failing to do that any longer - there's a widening crack in the keel and they are seeping in."
I agree but that's why I want to see 4-5 parties that could get into government, albeit in coalition. I don't think a 2 party system is healthy for the reasons you describe. Vote Lib Dem  |
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