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economy post brexit vote - the truth
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The Sun business page.
Persimmon described trading in the weeks after the vote as "encouraging.", despite grim.warnings over the sectors future.
It's private sales since Aug 23 are up by 19% year on year.
Britain's second largest housebuilder has also secured £757 million of future sales beyond 2016, four percent up on this time last year.
The latest construction PMI index shows at 52.6, anything over 50 indicates growth.
Now that we are clear of the post vote hysteria the truth starts to emerge, the UK economy will be fine.  |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
Good grief. Businesses are in a rush to try and make the most of the situation while we are still in the EU.
They know we will be in a terrible position overall IF we leave.
Just look what happens when Government ministers even suggest Hard Brexit, compared to what happens whenever there is news we might not leave. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The Sun business page.
Persimmon described trading in the weeks after the vote as "encouraging.", despite grim.warnings over the sectors future.
It's private sales since Aug 23 are up by 19% year on year.
Britain's second largest housebuilder has also secured £757 million of future sales beyond 2016, four percent up on this time last year.
The latest construction PMI index shows at 52.6, anything over 50 indicates growth.
Now that we are clear of the post vote hysteria the truth starts to emerge, the UK economy will be fine. "
And what has their share price looked like since the referendum? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The Sun business page.
Persimmon described trading in the weeks after the vote as "encouraging.", despite grim.warnings over the sectors future.
It's private sales since Aug 23 are up by 19% year on year.
Britain's second largest housebuilder has also secured £757 million of future sales beyond 2016, four percent up on this time last year.
The latest construction PMI index shows at 52.6, anything over 50 indicates growth.
Now that we are clear of the post vote hysteria the truth starts to emerge, the UK economy will be fine.
And what has their share price looked like since the referendum?"
so you want it both ways? Anything bad is to do with the referendum and anything good is because we haven't left yet? |
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"The Sun business page.
Persimmon described trading in the weeks after the vote as "encouraging.", despite grim.warnings over the sectors future.
It's private sales since Aug 23 are up by 19% year on year.
Britain's second largest housebuilder has also secured £757 million of future sales beyond 2016, four percent up on this time last year.
The latest construction PMI index shows at 52.6, anything over 50 indicates growth.
Now that we are clear of the post vote hysteria the truth starts to emerge, the UK economy will be fine. "
Personally I don't care if you stay or go but the company I work for imports a lot of products from the UK. The majority of our UK suppliers are shitting it for the future. If trade tariffs come in we will be buying from mainland Europe. Also if Nissan did get a deal it's a disaster for the British taxpayer. In truth though only time will tell. I think it'll take 5-10 years to see who was right. Either way it's going to be like a rollercoaster, enjoy the ride  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Google today says it will create "thousands" of jobs in the UK... and this sort of good news for the UK economy just keeps on coming."
sure does 
And several new hotels planned for the expected influx of Chinese tourists coming to spend their hard earned cash.
Anyone left yet?  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Google first announced this new London office in November 2013, it's just been waiting for planning to give it the go ahead.....it's nothing new"
the increase in sizd and numbers is |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
No it's not, they have had a planning notice in for Kings Cross since February 2014, I know this as the land is being partly sold by the Transport For London pension fund who own Kings Cross theatre.....my wife is in that Pension fund and beneficiaries of the fund were informed in October 2014 of the bid.....they changed the planning application to its current format around Fifteen months ago. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No it's not, they have had a planning notice in for Kings Cross since February 2014, I know this as the land is being partly sold by the Transport For London pension fund who own Kings Cross theatre.....my wife is in that Pension fund and beneficiaries of the fund were informed in October 2014 of the bid.....they changed the planning application to its current format around Fifteen months ago."
so how many people did they plan to have working there then and how many now we're leaving the EU? |
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The point is, instead of the doom and gloom that some predicted, claims of Banks, big business and industry pulling out, its the opposite, and Google could have pulled the plug, but they didn't, they still think the UK is a good place to do business from. |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
They committed to purchase the land before the referendum was even muted.....it would have been welcome news if Google had announced that its European advertising HQ was to be moved from Ireland to London, as it would have meant a healthy tax injection into the treasury, however it isn't going to be so any real financial benefit to the UK is insignificant. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The point is, instead of the doom and gloom that some predicted, claims of Banks, big business and industry pulling out, its the opposite, and Google could have pulled the plug, but they didn't, they still think the UK is a good place to do business from. "
What you've actually said (rightly or wrongly) is that they have invested in England, you live in Wales. As Brexit is likely to lead to the break up of the UK, I don't really see there is too much for you to get excited about. |
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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago
London / Herts |
By voting to leave, the UK has opted to exclude itself from free trade within one of the world's largest and most vibrant economies. I am completely unable to understand how, short or long term, that benefits the UK, even when you factor in our contributions to the bloc. |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
Unless......Theresa May has a 'Very cunning plan' to drop Corporation Tax right down and has been leaking this to overseas companies....which would be a masterful move.
Maybe London could be our Singapore? |
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"They committed to purchase the land before the referendum was even muted.....it would have been welcome news if Google had announced that its European advertising HQ was to be moved from Ireland to London, as it would have meant a healthy tax injection into the treasury, however it isn't going to be so any real financial benefit to the UK is insignificant."
Head of Google in the UK is on the News right now saying they are investing 1 billion in the UK, and the decision to stay was made AFTER the Brexit vote.
No matter how you try and spin it, the guy is right there on my screen saying that the UK is a great place to do business, and grow.
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
They committed to purchase the land long before the referendum was announced....what part of that don't you understand?, if you want to spin it as a post refrendum decision then you are deluding yourself, Kings Cross theatre was purchased outright Fifteen months ago initially as a base for Googles offshoot Artificial Intelligence HQ in Europe, |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
Just a few interesting quotes from the BBC News website on the story.
"Sundar Pichai, the chief executive of Google, told the BBC that the UK was still an attractive place to do business. He said open borders and free movement forskilled migrants were "absolutely" important to the success of the technology sector in the UK."
Are we going to have the open borders and free movement that is absolutely important?
"The new 650,000 sq-ft headquarters has been designed by Thomas Heatherwick, the designer behind the "garden bridge" across the Thames.He was brought in by Google after its founders, Sergey Brin and Larry Page, rejected initial designs for a new headquarters as "too boring" in 2013. Danisharchitects Bjarke Ingels Group are also involved in the project."
So they have been working on this since before 2013.
But feel free to read the article to see which sections you find interesting.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"They committed to purchase the land long before the referendum was announced....what part of that don't you understand?, if you want to spin it as a post refrendum decision then you are deluding yourself, Kings Cross theatre was purchased outright Fifteen months ago initially as a base for Googles offshoot Artificial Intelligence HQ in Europe,"
So you know more about Google's business than the CEO of Google then? |
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By *ammskiMan
over a year ago
lytham st.annes |
"Just a few interesting quotes from the BBC News website on the story.
"Sundar Pichai, the chief executive of Google, told the BBC that the UK was still an attractive place to do business. He said open borders and free movement forskilled migrants were "absolutely" important to the success of the technology sector in the UK."
Are we going to have the open borders and free movement that is absolutely important?
"The new 650,000 sq-ft headquarters has been designed by Thomas Heatherwick, the designer behind the "garden bridge" across the Thames.He was brought in by Google after its founders, Sergey Brin and Larry Page, rejected initial designs for a new headquarters as "too boring" in 2013. Danisharchitects Bjarke Ingels Group are also involved in the project."
So they have been working on this since before 2013.
But feel free to read the article to see which sections you find interesting.
"
. It,s bullshit if the BBC are involved |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The UK hasn't left the European union yet....so you still have free trade with 350 million people, once article 50 is enacted the two year clock starts ticking and the ball is in the eu court as they can stall for time as various countries have elections next year, after the two years are up (and it took 7years to negotiate with Canada) article 50 says the shutters come down and your out, and guess what there is 350 million people on your doorstep that you can supply goods and services to cheaper but to deal with them you have to talk to the Eu. You can't have single trade deals. Also the Eu have 700 officials ready to negotiate brexit the UK have 70 good luck with that ?? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
. It,s bullshit if the BBC are involved "
Oh, thank fuck for that. I watched both the referendum result and the Trump election on the BBC, I'm glad to hear that both stories are bullshit. |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"The Sun business page.
Persimmon described trading in the weeks after the vote as "encouraging.", despite grim.warnings over the sectors future.
It's private sales since Aug 23 are up by 19% year on year.
Britain's second largest housebuilder has also secured £757 million of future sales beyond 2016, four percent up on this time last year.
The latest construction PMI index shows at 52.6, anything over 50 indicates growth.
Now that we are clear of the post vote hysteria the truth starts to emerge, the UK economy will be fine. "
Same with JCB. Another large order . Life can only get better. |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"Good grief. Businesses are in a rush to try and make the most of the situation while we are still in the EU.
They know we will be in a terrible position overall IF we leave.
Just look what happens when Government ministers even suggest Hard Brexit, compared to what happens whenever there is news we might not leave."
Maybe you need to speak to JCB or Wetherspoons. Life goes on. Countries still have to buy our goods and vice versa.
The sooner we leave , the sooner we can implement our plans for a brighter future.
The Stock Exchange is close to an all time high.
We may not need to Brexit . The way things are going the EU might break up anyway .  |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"The point is, instead of the doom and gloom that some predicted, claims of Banks, big business and industry pulling out, its the opposite, and Google could have pulled the plug, but they didn't, they still think the UK is a good place to do business from.
What you've actually said (rightly or wrongly) is that they have invested in England, you live in Wales. As Brexit is likely to lead to the break up of the UK, I don't really see there is too much for you to get excited about."
Why would Brexit lead to the break up of the UK?.I was unaware of this and it is news to me. |
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"The point is, instead of the doom and gloom that some predicted, claims of Banks, big business and industry pulling out, its the opposite, and Google could have pulled the plug, but they didn't, they still think the UK is a good place to do business from.
What you've actually said (rightly or wrongly) is that they have invested in England, you live in Wales. As Brexit is likely to lead to the break up of the UK, I don't really see there is too much for you to get excited about. Why would Brexit lead to the break up of the UK?.I was unaware of this and it is news to me. "
Some on here think Scotland can go it alone have a referendum and leave the UK then re-join the EU. |
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"The point is, instead of the doom and gloom that some predicted, claims of Banks, big business and industry pulling out, its the opposite, and Google could have pulled the plug, but they didn't, they still think the UK is a good place to do business from.
What you've actually said (rightly or wrongly) is that they have invested in England, you live in Wales. As Brexit is likely to lead to the break up of the UK, I don't really see there is too much for you to get excited about."
A majority in Wales voted to Leave the EU. Wales is part of the UK just as much as England, investment in the UK will benefit all parts of the UK, Scotland and Northern Ireland included. |
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"By voting to leave, the UK has opted to exclude itself from free trade within one of the world's largest and most vibrant economies. I am completely unable to understand how, short or long term, that benefits the UK, even when you factor in our contributions to the bloc."
One of the world's Most vibrant economies? Are you having a laugh? The EU economy is stagnant. The only continent with worse economic growth than the EU is Antarctica. As a share in world growth the EU share has been in decline for many, many years now. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
"
I was unaware that we had reduced our market. We will still be trading with EU countries but under slightly different terms .
If we fight a hard battle these terms may be better than those at present . |
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"The point is, instead of the doom and gloom that some predicted, claims of Banks, big business and industry pulling out, its the opposite, and Google could have pulled the plug, but they didn't, they still think the UK is a good place to do business from. "
Of course they fucking do, profits are exported offshore and they pay next to nothing in tax |
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I was unaware that we had reduced our market. We will still be trading with EU countries but under slightly different terms .
If we fight a hard battle these terms may be better than those at present . "
How do you get better than tariff free?  |
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"They committed to purchase the land long before the referendum was announced....what part of that don't you understand?, if you want to spin it as a post refrendum decision then you are deluding yourself, Kings Cross theatre was purchased outright Fifteen months ago initially as a base for Googles offshoot Artificial Intelligence HQ in Europe,"
Whilst its true they committed to buying the property before the vote, the CEO of Google Europe says the decision to stay was made AFTER the vote, buildings can be sold on you know, if Google had felt that they couldn't do business from a base in the UK, they could have just walked away. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
I was unaware that we had reduced our market. We will still be trading with EU countries but under slightly different terms .
If we fight a hard battle these terms may be better than those at present .
How do you get better than tariff free? "
In the future everytime you buy a BMW you get a blowjob from Merkel  |
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I was unaware that we had reduced our market. We will still be trading with EU countries but under slightly different terms .
If we fight a hard battle these terms may be better than those at present .
How do you get better than tariff free?
In the future everytime you buy a BMW you get a blowjob from Merkel "
Well it's been reported in the press that Germany industry giants like BMW are lobbying Merkel to give Britain a good trade deal when we leave the EU as Britain is one of the German car industry biggest customers. A blow job from Merkel is pushing it a bit far although she'll probably be kissing some ass if she wants to get re elected in Germany next year. |
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"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
"
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about. "
So Brexitiers dont care about money, or growth, or the economy, or parliamentary sovereignty, or an independent judiciary... Remind me what you do care about? |
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"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about.
So Brexitiers dont care about money, or growth, or the economy, or parliamentary sovereignty, or an independent judiciary... Remind me what you do care about? "
As I said it's you Remainers who are obsessed with the economy. Many Leave voter's prioritise reclaiming sovereignty and control of immigration ahead of the economy. There is more to life than money. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about.
So Brexitiers dont care about money, or growth, or the economy, or parliamentary sovereignty, or an independent judiciary... Remind me what you do care about?
As I said it's you Remainers who are obsessed with the economy. Many Leave voter's prioritise reclaiming sovereignty and control of immigration ahead of the economy. There is more to life than money. "
But you have argued AGAINST parliamentary sovereignty! So really the only thing that leaves is immigration |
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"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about.
So Brexitiers dont care about money, or growth, or the economy, or parliamentary sovereignty, or an independent judiciary... Remind me what you do care about?
As I said it's you Remainers who are obsessed with the economy. Many Leave voter's prioritise reclaiming sovereignty and control of immigration ahead of the economy. There is more to life than money.
But you have argued AGAINST parliamentary sovereignty! So really the only thing that leaves is immigration "
I've not argued against parliamentary sovereignty, and the court case is still ongoing. There is still an appeal process at the supreme court to be heard. The high court ruling could be over turned so this business is far from over. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"The Right do get obsessed with growth. As if with companies it is all about making on the trading of the shares.
At some point companies don't have to grow, they are worthwhile just performing and paying out a modest steady dividend.
The EU is massive. No bigger market.
Somewhere like Cambodia has a rapidly growing economy, growing far quicker than the EU. Does that mean it's a better trading partner? Of course it fucking doesn't.
We've turned a market of 400+million from trading partners into very shortly trading COMPETITORS. Very smart.
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about.
So Brexitiers dont care about money, or growth, or the economy, or parliamentary sovereignty, or an independent judiciary... Remind me what you do care about?
As I said it's you Remainers who are obsessed with the economy. Many Leave voter's prioritise reclaiming sovereignty and control of immigration ahead of the economy. There is more to life than money.
But you have argued AGAINST parliamentary sovereignty! So really the only thing that leaves is immigration
I've not argued against parliamentary sovereignty, and the court case is still ongoing. There is still an appeal process at the supreme court to be heard. The high court ruling could be over turned so this business is far from over. "
So you would be perfectly happy to accept that parliament is the sovereign body, and if they dont want to follow the advisory referendum result, that's all ok with you? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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We haven't left the EU yet, nothing drastic (good or bad) is unlikely to happen for some time if at all.
It will take at least 10 years after exiting the EU to reasonably judge the success or failure of leaving.
Short term economic evidence is not a LONG TERM solution.
As ever some people will be better off, some people worse.
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"By not having other barriers like customs red tape. Oh hang on, we'd minimised those as well, doh! And who sais that we will have any customs red tape . ? "
From yesterdays papers
'Britain is probably leaving the EU customs union, Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has claimed, despite Whitehall warnings that it could seriously harm the economy.
The cabinet minister made the revelation in an interview with a Czech newspaper, despite Theresa May’s insistence that her government will not be providing a running commentary on Brexit.
According to the interview, which was reported in Czech, Johnson said: “Probably we will need to leave the customs union, but this is a question which will be dealt with in the negotiations.”
The move is likely to alarm businesses that move goods to and from the EU as it would mean extra checks at the border.
A leaked cabinet paper revealed by the Guardian last month showed that ministers have been warned that pulling out of the EU customs union could lead to a 4.5% fall in GDP by 2030 and the clogging up of trade through Britain’s ports.
The issue has caused a split among ministers, with Liam Fox, the trade secretary, pushing for the UK to leave because membership of the customs union prevents the negotiation of independent trade deals with non-EU countries.
On the other side, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, and his allies have concerns about the impact of leaving on the economy.'
Oh and shortly after the report a spokesman for the PM said 'no decision has been made'
What a bunch of incompetent arseholes you brexiters are. How you had the temerity to complain about the EU I'll never know. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"
I've not argued against parliamentary sovereignty, and the court case is still ongoing. There is still an appeal process at the supreme court to be heard. The high court ruling could be over turned so this business is far from over. "
'A supreme court judge has raised the prospect that Theresa May would have to comprehensively replace existing EU legislation before the government could even begin Brexit, in a move that could seriously delay the process.
In a speech that angered leave campaigners, Lady Hale said the supreme court judges could go further than simply forcing May to publish a short piece of legislation to approve the triggering of article 50.
The deputy president of the court said that next month’s case – in which the supreme court will hear the government’s appeal against a high court ruling that MPs must approve the triggering of article 50 – raised “difficult and delicate issues” about the relationship between government and parliament.
“Another question is whether it would be enough for a simple act of parliament to authorise the government to give notice, or whether it would have to be a comprehensive replacement of the 1972 act,” she said in comments to law students in Kuala Lumpur that were published online on Tuesday. The European Communities Act 1972 took the UK into the then European Economic Community.
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Hale set out the arguments on both sides of what is expected to be the most constitutionally significant case ever heard by the supreme court. She told the students that while 51.9% of the British electorate had voted to leave the EU, “that referendum was not legally binding on parliament”.
She put forward the argument that the government was likely to make, saying it would suggest: “The basis on which the referendum was undertaken was that the government would give effect to the result. Beginning the process would not change the law.”
The comments come amid reports that the government has prepared a short three-line bill aimed at helping May stick to her March deadline for triggering article 50 if the supreme court ruled that was necessary. Ministers are said to have drawn up short legislation that would be difficult to amend.'
That is quite shameful by the government. It is just another attempt to ride roughshod over Parliament by a different method. Do it properly ffs! |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"
It's you Remainers who are obsessed with money, growth and the economy. It's all you ever go on about. "
'One of the world's Most vibrant economies? Are you having a laugh? The EU economy is stagnant. The only continent with worse economic growth than the EU is Antarctica. As a share in world growth the EU share has been in decline for many, many years now.'
That was your post, Centaur. It's a point you have made many times over on these forums.
It's easy to see how we have arrived at this post-truth world we are now in, isn't it? |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"
I've not argued against parliamentary sovereignty, and the court case is still ongoing. There is still an appeal process at the supreme court to be heard. The high court ruling could be over turned so this business is far from over.
'A supreme court judge has raised the prospect that Theresa May would have to comprehensively replace existing EU legislation before the government could even begin Brexit, in a move that could seriously delay the process.
In a speech that angered leave campaigners, Lady Hale said the supreme court judges could go further than simply forcing May to publish a short piece of legislation to approve the triggering of article 50.
The deputy president of the court said that next month’s case – in which the supreme court will hear the government’s appeal against a high court ruling that MPs must approve the triggering of article 50 – raised “difficult and delicate issues” about the relationship between government and parliament.
“Another question is whether it would be enough for a simple act of parliament to authorise the government to give notice, or whether it would have to be a comprehensive replacement of the 1972 act,” she said in comments to law students in Kuala Lumpur that were published online on Tuesday. The European Communities Act 1972 took the UK into the then European Economic Community.
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Hale set out the arguments on both sides of what is expected to be the most constitutionally significant case ever heard by the supreme court. She told the students that while 51.9% of the British electorate had voted to leave the EU, “that referendum was not legally binding on parliament”.
She put forward the argument that the government was likely to make, saying it would suggest: “The basis on which the referendum was undertaken was that the government would give effect to the result. Beginning the process would not change the law.”
The comments come amid reports that the government has prepared a short three-line bill aimed at helping May stick to her March deadline for triggering article 50 if the supreme court ruled that was necessary. Ministers are said to have drawn up short legislation that would be difficult to amend.'
That is quite shameful by the government. It is just another attempt to ride roughshod over Parliament by a different method. Do it properly ffs!"
Or maybe just keep things simple . We voted to leave so we just need to take action to leave ASAP. That is what Teresa May is trying to do. We expect governments to implement the will of the electorate . |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"
We expect governments to implement the will of the electorate . "
The Tory Manifesto, on which they have a mandate from the country, as opposed to the advisory referendum, said 'YES to the Single Market'.
So, leave the EU but stay part of the single market, accept free movement of labour?
Fair enough. I'm a bit miffed about still having to contribute and not get the UK rebate, but I suppose its better than a full break on the whole. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"By not having other barriers like customs red tape. Oh hang on, we'd minimised those as well, doh! And who sais that we will have any customs red tape . ?
From yesterdays papers
'Britain is probably leaving the EU customs union, Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has claimed, despite Whitehall warnings that it could seriously harm the economy.
The cabinet minister made the revelation in an interview with a Czech newspaper, despite Theresa May’s insistence that her government will not be providing a running commentary on Brexit.
According to the interview, which was reported in Czech, Johnson said: “Probably we will need to leave the customs union, but this is a question which will be dealt with in the negotiations.”
The move is likely to alarm businesses that move goods to and from the EU as it would mean extra checks at the border.
A leaked cabinet paper revealed by the Guardian last month showed that ministers have been warned that pulling out of the EU customs union could lead to a 4.5% fall in GDP by 2030 and the clogging up of trade through Britain’s ports.
The issue has caused a split among ministers, with Liam Fox, the trade secretary, pushing for the UK to leave because membership of the customs union prevents the negotiation of independent trade deals with non-EU countries.
On the other side, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, and his allies have concerns about the impact of leaving on the economy.'
Oh and shortly after the report a spokesman for the PM said 'no decision has been made'
What a bunch of incompetent arseholes you brexiters are. How you had the temerity to complain about the EU I'll never know."
So the day after the times and the bbc amongst others got caught out by an employee of deloittes telling porkies you believe something reported in a czech newspaper, the remainers are getting more desperate trying to find bad and making up stories of punch ups in the cabinet, the news outlets are really pissed off because the government quite rightly are not telling the eu our plans |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"By not having other barriers like customs red tape. Oh hang on, we'd minimised those as well, doh! And who sais that we will have any customs red tape . ?
From yesterdays papers
'Britain is probably leaving the EU customs union, Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has claimed, despite Whitehall warnings that it could seriously harm the economy.
The cabinet minister made the revelation in an interview with a Czech newspaper, despite Theresa May’s insistence that her government will not be providing a running commentary on Brexit.
According to the interview, which was reported in Czech, Johnson said: “Probably we will need to leave the customs union, but this is a question which will be dealt with in the negotiations.”
The move is likely to alarm businesses that move goods to and from the EU as it would mean extra checks at the border.
A leaked cabinet paper revealed by the Guardian last month showed that ministers have been warned that pulling out of the EU customs union could lead to a 4.5% fall in GDP by 2030 and the clogging up of trade through Britain’s ports.
The issue has caused a split among ministers, with Liam Fox, the trade secretary, pushing for the UK to leave because membership of the customs union prevents the negotiation of independent trade deals with non-EU countries.
On the other side, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, and his allies have concerns about the impact of leaving on the economy.'
Oh and shortly after the report a spokesman for the PM said 'no decision has been made'
What a bunch of incompetent arseholes you brexiters are. How you had the temerity to complain about the EU I'll never know.
So the day after the times and the bbc amongst others got caught out by an employee of deloittes telling porkies you believe something reported in a czech newspaper, the remainers are getting more desperate trying to find bad and making up stories of punch ups in the cabinet, the news outlets are really pissed off because the government quite rightly are not telling the eu our plans "
I think its quite clear, there is no plan. What do we know today, that we didn't know on 24th June? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"By not having other barriers like customs red tape. Oh hang on, we'd minimised those as well, doh! And who sais that we will have any customs red tape . ?
From yesterdays papers
'Britain is probably leaving the EU customs union, Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has claimed, despite Whitehall warnings that it could seriously harm the economy.
The cabinet minister made the revelation in an interview with a Czech newspaper, despite Theresa May’s insistence that her government will not be providing a running commentary on Brexit.
According to the interview, which was reported in Czech, Johnson said: “Probably we will need to leave the customs union, but this is a question which will be dealt with in the negotiations.”
The move is likely to alarm businesses that move goods to and from the EU as it would mean extra checks at the border.
A leaked cabinet paper revealed by the Guardian last month showed that ministers have been warned that pulling out of the EU customs union could lead to a 4.5% fall in GDP by 2030 and the clogging up of trade through Britain’s ports.
The issue has caused a split among ministers, with Liam Fox, the trade secretary, pushing for the UK to leave because membership of the customs union prevents the negotiation of independent trade deals with non-EU countries.
On the other side, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, and his allies have concerns about the impact of leaving on the economy.'
Oh and shortly after the report a spokesman for the PM said 'no decision has been made'
What a bunch of incompetent arseholes you brexiters are. How you had the temerity to complain about the EU I'll never know.
So the day after the times and the bbc amongst others got caught out by an employee of deloittes telling porkies you believe something reported in a czech newspaper, the remainers are getting more desperate trying to find bad and making up stories of punch ups in the cabinet, the news outlets are really pissed off because the government quite rightly are not telling the eu our plans
I think its quite clear, there is no plan. What do we know today, that we didn't know on 24th June? "
what don't you get about 'quite rightly not'?
anyway, what do you want to know the plans for? |
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"By not having other barriers like customs red tape. Oh hang on, we'd minimised those as well, doh! And who sais that we will have any customs red tape . ?
From yesterdays papers
'Britain is probably leaving the EU customs union, Boris Johnson, the foreign secretary, has claimed, despite Whitehall warnings that it could seriously harm the economy.
The cabinet minister made the revelation in an interview with a Czech newspaper, despite Theresa May’s insistence that her government will not be providing a running commentary on Brexit.
According to the interview, which was reported in Czech, Johnson said: “Probably we will need to leave the customs union, but this is a question which will be dealt with in the negotiations.”
The move is likely to alarm businesses that move goods to and from the EU as it would mean extra checks at the border.
A leaked cabinet paper revealed by the Guardian last month showed that ministers have been warned that pulling out of the EU customs union could lead to a 4.5% fall in GDP by 2030 and the clogging up of trade through Britain’s ports.
The issue has caused a split among ministers, with Liam Fox, the trade secretary, pushing for the UK to leave because membership of the customs union prevents the negotiation of independent trade deals with non-EU countries.
On the other side, Philip Hammond, the chancellor, and his allies have concerns about the impact of leaving on the economy.'
Oh and shortly after the report a spokesman for the PM said 'no decision has been made'
What a bunch of incompetent arseholes you brexiters are. How you had the temerity to complain about the EU I'll never know.
So the day after the times and the bbc amongst others got caught out by an employee of deloittes telling porkies you believe something reported in a czech newspaper, the remainers are getting more desperate trying to find bad and making up stories of punch ups in the cabinet, the news outlets are really pissed off because the government quite rightly are not telling the eu our plans "
Indeed the Remainers on here keep going on about post truth , yet just yesterday they were guilty of it themselves trying to push a bullshit story about no plan for Brexit, when deloittes admitted themselves later in the day they don't have access to any cabinet papers. |
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I've not argued against parliamentary sovereignty, and the court case is still ongoing. There is still an appeal process at the supreme court to be heard. The high court ruling could be over turned so this business is far from over.
'A supreme court judge has raised the prospect that Theresa May would have to comprehensively replace existing EU legislation before the government could even begin Brexit, in a move that could seriously delay the process.
In a speech that angered leave campaigners, Lady Hale said the supreme court judges could go further than simply forcing May to publish a short piece of legislation to approve the triggering of article 50.
The deputy president of the court said that next month’s case – in which the supreme court will hear the government’s appeal against a high court ruling that MPs must approve the triggering of article 50 – raised “difficult and delicate issues” about the relationship between government and parliament.
“Another question is whether it would be enough for a simple act of parliament to authorise the government to give notice, or whether it would have to be a comprehensive replacement of the 1972 act,” she said in comments to law students in Kuala Lumpur that were published online on Tuesday. The European Communities Act 1972 took the UK into the then European Economic Community.
The stories you need to read, in one handy email
Read more
Hale set out the arguments on both sides of what is expected to be the most constitutionally significant case ever heard by the supreme court. She told the students that while 51.9% of the British electorate had voted to leave the EU, “that referendum was not legally binding on parliament”.
She put forward the argument that the government was likely to make, saying it would suggest: “The basis on which the referendum was undertaken was that the government would give effect to the result. Beginning the process would not change the law.”
The comments come amid reports that the government has prepared a short three-line bill aimed at helping May stick to her March deadline for triggering article 50 if the supreme court ruled that was necessary. Ministers are said to have drawn up short legislation that would be difficult to amend.'
That is quite shameful by the government. It is just another attempt to ride roughshod over Parliament by a different method. Do it properly ffs!"
The same Lady Hale who is a rabid Remainiac and said before the referendum that she wanted Britain to stay in the EU. Don't you think she has a conflict of interest then?
Ian Duncan Smith said yesterday on the Daily politics show that Lady Hale is just 1 of 11 judges at the Supreme court and he is confident that the government will win it's appeal over the decision at the high Court. At the end of the day all the government are trying to do is implement the will of the people and follow through on the result of the referendum. As I said, we'll have to wait and see what the result is at the Supreme court when it happens. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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But to sell BMW they have to have an engine which is designed and made in the U.K. There will no doubt be difficult times and uncertainty during the two years of negotiations. But the Eu need our trade as much as we need theirs so things will settle down. |
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"
We expect governments to implement the will of the electorate .
The Tory Manifesto, on which they have a mandate from the country, as opposed to the advisory referendum, said 'YES to the Single Market'.
So, leave the EU but stay part of the single market, accept free movement of labour?
Fair enough. I'm a bit miffed about still having to contribute and not get the UK rebate, but I suppose its better than a full break on the whole."
The Tory manifesto at the general election also promised an in/out EU referendum. I think It was this particular promise that helped them to win a majority in parliament.
During the referendum David Cameron and the government sent out a taxpayer funded £9 million quid pro EU propaganda leaflet to every house in the Uk and in that leaflet it said the government would honour and deliver the result of the referendum. David Cameron also said multiple times during the referendum campaign that a vote to Leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market. Everyone knew exactly what they were voting for when they voted leave. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
The manifesto said they would hold a referendum. They did that.
The same manifesto said they would implement the vote, whichever way it went. They are trying to do that, though they need parliaments approval, which is fair enough.
Can you leave the EU and remain part of the Single Market? Yes. So that should be one of the end aims of the negotiating team because it actually was one of the manifesto commitments on which they were voted into power.
You do think a party should try and implement its manifesto where it can, don't you?
With regard to immigration, the Tory manifesto was quite clear that they needed to address these concerns many people have, but they made it quite clear that they will bring these numbers down anyway. No need to come out of the Single Market for that, they quite clearly set this out.
As for Cameron saying leaving the EU means leaving the single market.
1. The Leave campaign were not being clear that controlling the movement of labour meant it would be unlikely we could stay in the Single Market. at certain times in the campaign it was clear that immigration control was the Leave Campaigns focus. Therefore it was a legitimate response from Cameron to point out the consequences of this.
2. It was Camerons view.
3. There were other Remain campaigns.
4. He was wrong. You can leave the EU and stay in the single market.
5. The Labour Party have decided that is the new position they would like the UK to move to.
6. The Tories are still fighting over this. Shambles of a party.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"The manifesto said they would hold a referendum. They did that.
The same manifesto said they would implement the vote, whichever way it went. They are trying to do that, though they need parliaments approval, which is fair enough.
Can you leave the EU and remain part of the Single Market? Yes. So that should be one of the end aims of the negotiating team because it actually was one of the manifesto commitments on which they were voted into power.
You do think a party should try and implement its manifesto where it can, don't you?
With regard to immigration, the Tory manifesto was quite clear that they needed to address these concerns many people have, but they made it quite clear that they will bring these numbers down anyway. No need to come out of the Single Market for that, they quite clearly set this out.
As for Cameron saying leaving the EU means leaving the single market.
1. The Leave campaign were not being clear that controlling the movement of labour meant it would be unlikely we could stay in the Single Market. at certain times in the campaign it was clear that immigration control was the Leave Campaigns focus. Therefore it was a legitimate response from Cameron to point out the consequences of this.
2. It was Camerons view.
3. There were other Remain campaigns.
4. He was wrong. You can leave the EU and stay in the single market.
5. The Labour Party have decided that is the new position they would like the UK to move to.
6. The Tories are still fighting over this. Shambles of a party.
"
A party should try to stick to its manifesto where it can.... but the PM of the day, and many others, particularly on the remain side, including so called experts, were quite specific that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the single market. So this is obviously one of those times when a manifesto can't be kept to.
Although it may well be argued that it was kept to, as we won't officially leave the single market until after the 2 year period post article 50, so probably just before the next general election then.... |
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"The Sun business page.
Persimmon described trading in the weeks after the vote as "encouraging.", despite grim.warnings over the sectors future.
It's private sales since Aug 23 are up by 19% year on year.
Britain's second largest housebuilder has also secured £757 million of future sales beyond 2016, four percent up on this time last year.
The latest construction PMI index shows at 52.6, anything over 50 indicates growth.
Now that we are clear of the post vote hysteria the truth starts to emerge, the UK economy will be fine. "
Are you quoting the sun? They're famous for their accurate coverage of events, like after Swingfields for example. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
Couldn't give a fuck if he was the PM of the day.
He was a terrible, incompetent PM anyway.
He wasn't leader of any Remain campaign.
The official Remain campaign were unhappy with many things he and Osborne made up.
No-one was specific. They gave opinions on the future likelihood.
Leave pretended at times, when it suited, we could stay in the Single Market. They also pretended at times it was all about controlling the free movement. |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"Couldn't give a fuck if he was the PM of the day.
He was a terrible, incompetent PM anyway.
He wasn't leader of any Remain campaign.
The official Remain campaign were unhappy with many things he and Osborne made up.
No-one was specific. They gave opinions on the future likelihood.
Leave pretended at times, when it suited, we could stay in the Single Market. They also pretended at times it was all about controlling the free movement."
What exactly did the pm make up. ?
If anything we should be exceptionally gratefull to the ex pm.for allowing every single voter to have a say in the decision. It was simply democracy in action.
How is it possible to be specific when predicting future events ?
Why was he deemed to be imcompetent when so many voters voted for his party ?.
If he was incompetent he would have been kicked out?.
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"Couldn't give a fuck if he was the PM of the day.
He was a terrible, incompetent PM anyway.
He wasn't leader of any Remain campaign.
The official Remain campaign were unhappy with many things he and Osborne made up.
No-one was specific. They gave opinions on the future likelihood.
Leave pretended at times, when it suited, we could stay in the Single Market. They also pretended at times it was all about controlling the free movement."
No specifics?
"Vote leave today and tomorrow...."
House prices will fall by 18%
3,000,000 jobs will be lost
There will be an emergency budget
These sound pretty damn specific to me.... |
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""Vote leave today and tomorrow...."
House prices will fall by 18%
3,000,000 jobs will be lost
There will be an emergency budget
These sound pretty damn specific to me...."
Well £ down by 20% so all values down by 20%. Therefore house prices down by 20% for all non £ investors so i guess that one was pretty well on mark even before we leave the EU.
Guess we will have to wait till article 50 is triggered to see how many jobs we lose. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
""Vote leave today and tomorrow...."
House prices will fall by 18%
3,000,000 jobs will be lost
There will be an emergency budget
These sound pretty damn specific to me....
Well £ down by 20% so all values down by 20%. Therefore house prices down by 20% for all non £ investors so i guess that one was pretty well on mark even before we leave the EU.
Guess we will have to wait till article 50 is triggered to see how many jobs we lose."
What currency are you talking about ? the pound is down 10% on the euro and 15% on the dollar, and why do you care about non pound house buyers,how many UK residents SELL houses using anything but pounds ? |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
""Vote leave today and tomorrow...."
House prices will fall by 18%
3,000,000 jobs will be lost
There will be an emergency budget
These sound pretty damn specific to me....
Well £ down by 20% so all values down by 20%. Therefore house prices down by 20% for all non £ investors so i guess that one was pretty well on mark even before we leave the EU.
Guess we will have to wait till article 50 is triggered to see how many jobs we lose.
What currency are you talking about ? the pound is down 10% on the euro and 15% on the dollar, and why do you care about non pound house buyers,how many UK residents SELL houses using anything but pounds ? "
Remainers really scraping the barrel now with their arguments! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Barrett has also said the industry is looking strong, and forecasts growth.
Every day at least one positive story about the UK economy post-brexit. "
So that makes Brexit worth it, right? |
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A stronger economy, lower unemployment, foreign and domestic companies investing in the UK, foreign trade deals looking likely, even German Industry and Commerce wants favourable trade terms ( for us ) set by the EU to maintain trading links, freedom from EU courts and red tape, control on immigration, where are the downsides? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Barrett has also said the industry is looking strong, and forecasts growth.
Every day at least one positive story about the UK economy post-brexit.
So that makes Brexit worth it, right? "
are you for real or just turning into a wind up merchant because you've run out of arguements? That and numerous other things make Brexit worth it.
So if we'd remained and every day we had negative news on the economy, that makes remaining worth it right? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"That and numerous other things make Brexit worth it.
So if the economy turns, that means Brexit won't be worth it right? "
go to the dictionary and look up the word 'numerous' |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"
So the day after the times and the bbc amongst others got caught out by an employee of deloittes telling porkies you believe something reported in a czech newspaper, the remainers are getting more desperate trying to find bad and making up stories of punch ups in the cabinet, the news outlets are really pissed off because the government quite rightly are not telling the eu our plans "
Todays Guardian
'The prime minister plans to trigger article 50, notifying the EU of the UK’s intention to leave the bloc, by the end of March but there are growing concerns that her timetable is too ambitious, after a note by a consultant at Deloitte suggested the government lacked a plan for Brexit and may need to employ up to 30,000 more civil servants to deal with the process.
Sir Simon Fraser, the former permanent secretary at the Foreign Office, told the House of Commons Brexit committee on Wednesday that the note appeared to exaggerate the problems but agreed there was not yet a central plan for leaving the EU.
“My understanding is that it is indeed proving to be a very considerable challenge in Whitehall to do this [drawing up a Brexit plan], that the government has not yet reached the point where … it is still in information-gathering mode and is not yet at the point of integrating that into a central plan. And that, I assume, will have to happen before the triggering of article 50 next year.
“And I agree that this is a huge burden, a huge additional load, for the civil service. This is an extraordinary complex range of activity across a wide range of domestic and international policies and it will definitely impose a great burden on the civil service.”
So there we have it. Did the Deloitte memo overstate it a little? Perhaps. Or did the former Permanent Secretary understate it a little? Given the language and phrasing Permanent Secretaries use I'd tend to actually think the latter.
Either way the basic premise of the Times front page, as I said said, was on the money.
Time for Brexiters to deal with reality. |
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There will be some truth in this I'm sure.
But also, can you imagine anybody in Whitehall saying 'right, we're going to have to work our balls off to make this happen, let's get cracking' ?
I cant. That is half the problem. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"There will be some truth in this I'm sure.
But also, can you imagine anybody in Whitehall saying 'right, we're going to have to work our balls off to make this happen, let's get cracking' ?
I cant. That is half the problem. "
I imagine there are plenty of people working their bollocks off, each on a tiny part of this million piece jigsaw puzzle. The enormity of the task cannot be overstated. |
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"
I imagine there are plenty of people working their bollocks off, each on a tiny part of this million piece jigsaw puzzle. The enormity of the task cannot be overstated."
Yeah it's an enormous task, but I can't see the bulk of civil servants pulling out the stops. Easier to say it can't be done in the timeframe without extra staff or funding. That's the way of government imo. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
Wouldn't you be a bit pissed off if you were a civil servant.
This is a complex issue that has been dumped on them. They are way understaffed, it is completely outside the experience of all but about 30 of them.
The minimum they should be getting from the government is some idea of the end aims but they haven't even got that. The only thing they have got is a ridiculous deadline.
The next thing to piss them off is when the new expert consultants are recruited. They will be doing the same job as the person next to them but for a fraction of the remuneration.
Morale will continue to plummet. |
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"
I imagine there are plenty of people working their bollocks off, each on a tiny part of this million piece jigsaw puzzle. The enormity of the task cannot be overstated.
Yeah it's an enormous task, but I can't see the bulk of civil servants pulling out the stops. Easier to say it can't be done in the timeframe without extra staff or funding. That's the way of government imo. "
Totally agree. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
I imagine there are plenty of people working their bollocks off, each on a tiny part of this million piece jigsaw puzzle. The enormity of the task cannot be overstated.
Yeah it's an enormous task, but I can't see the bulk of civil servants pulling out the stops. Easier to say it can't be done in the timeframe without extra staff or funding. That's the way of government imo.
Totally agree. "
So what's your solution? Delay triggering article 50? Give them the staff they say they need? Performance management them out of their positions? |
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"
Yeah it's an enormous task, but I can't see the bulk of civil servants pulling out the stops. Easier to say it can't be done in the timeframe without extra staff or funding. That's the way of government imo.
Totally agree.
So what's your solution? Delay triggering article 50? Give them the staff they say they need? Performance management them out of their positions? "
Staff and performance management. The problem is the civil service mentality of time and budget. It wouldn't happen in the private sector, but thats another thread.
Just, we cant do it, its all to complicated , lets delay or not do it, arent options |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"A stronger economy, lower unemployment, foreign and domestic companies investing in the UK, foreign trade deals looking likely, even German Industry and Commerce wants favourable trade terms ( for us ) set by the EU to maintain trading links, freedom from EU courts and red tape, control on immigration, where are the downsides? "
I am unable to think of any either |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
""Vote leave today and tomorrow...."
House prices will fall by 18%
3,000,000 jobs will be lost
There will be an emergency budget
These sound pretty damn specific to me....
Well £ down by 20% so all values down by 20%. Therefore house prices down by 20% for all non £ investors so i guess that one was pretty well on mark even before we leave the EU.
Guess we will have to wait till article 50 is triggered to see how many jobs we lose."
I think we are actually gaining jobs and the pound only fell because it was over valued .The fall in the value of the pound has nothing to do with Brexit .
In addition the Stock Market is performing strongly |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"..... the pound only fell because it was over valued .The fall in the value of the pound has nothing to do with Brexit . ... "
At one time you used to talk sense on this forum. You would have to be purposely blinkered not to see the way the pound reacts whenever there is Brexit related news.
Brexit/hard Brexit/leaving the single market - £GBP drops
High Court ruling, Supreme judges comments - £GBP gains
To say that the fall of the pound has nothing to do with Brexit is like saying getting d*unk has nothing to do with drinking. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
Currency trading is immediate and it is volatile because it is reactionary. Underlying economic trends however take months and months to manifest themselves in the real world.
Broadsheets are reporting today that Philip Hammond will have the unenviable task of reporting in next weeks Autumn statement that the UK will have a Brexit related fiscal black hole and with controls on immigration forecast no real means of dealing with through organically increasing tax revenues.
We will now see just how honest the government is about Brexit and the economy and what they now propose to do about the fiscal target of balancing the books by 2020. This was abandoned as a policy immediately after the Brexit vote in lieu of an emergency budget but the goal was retained as a target. This will now be mission impossible with huge tax rises and/or deep austerity. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"No one knows what next week will bring never mind next year unless you have a crystal ball and if you have (what are the lottery winning numbers).  "
The vast majority of people would not choose to amble through life not knowing what they are going to do the next day, week, month or year.
People, families, businesses and even countries make plans and their plans are based on forecasts and likelihoods. Without a plan. you are like a ship without a rudder and without an assessment of what the future might hold, you cant make a plan.
I totally agree that our future at the moment is very, very vague. But that is only because a large number of people voted for meaningless slogans, lies and a fear of foreigners. Month by month now the screw will tighten as reality sets in and the first real earthquake will be when (if) A50 actually gets invoked and the divorce proceedings begin. The uncertainty of today will feel like a sea of tranquility in the period between A50 and phyical Brexit.
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best. |
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"No one knows what next week will bring never mind next year unless you have a crystal ball and if you have (what are the lottery winning numbers).
The vast majority of people would not choose to amble through life not knowing what they are going to do the next day, week, month or year.
People, families, businesses and even countries make plans and their plans are based on forecasts and likelihoods. Without a plan. you are like a ship without a rudder and without an assessment of what the future might hold, you cant make a plan.
I totally agree that our future at the moment is very, very vague. But that is only because a large number of people voted for meaningless slogans, lies and a fear of foreigners. Month by month now the screw will tighten as reality sets in and the first real earthquake will be when (if) A50 actually gets invoked and the divorce proceedings begin. The uncertainty of today will feel like a sea of tranquility in the period between A50 and phyical Brexit.
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best."
The route is vague and needs clarifying and embarking on soon. I run a manufacturing business and voted leave, for my own reasons. I didn't believe the lies or slogans, and I certainly do not hate foreigners or UK nationals of foreign descent, and would ask you to stop saying so.
Other business owners I spoke to, small and large also voted leave. They are all intelligent , progressive people not holding the negative / obnoxious traits you describe.
Most of them want this process just to get underway. |
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Do you really think the Govt don't know what they want or how they are going to approach getting it?
It's probably true to say that there are goals, and there will be hurdles, and the process of obtaining the goals... or a very close proximity, will be difficult and complex.
I for one am glad the Govt are being cautious about what they say, but I'm sure that behind the scenes there are many discussions being held.
The analogy being used is its like a poker game, and what's the use in trying to play if everyone else can see your cards? |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"No one knows what next week will bring never mind next year unless you have a crystal ball and if you have (what are the lottery winning numbers).
The vast majority of people would not choose to amble through life not knowing what they are going to do the next day, week, month or year.
People, families, businesses and even countries make plans and their plans are based on forecasts and likelihoods. Without a plan. you are like a ship without a rudder and without an assessment of what the future might hold, you cant make a plan.
I totally agree that our future at the moment is very, very vague. But that is only because a large number of people voted for meaningless slogans, lies and a fear of foreigners. Month by month now the screw will tighten as reality sets in and the first real earthquake will be when (if) A50 actually gets invoked and the divorce proceedings begin. The uncertainty of today will feel like a sea of tranquility in the period between A50 and phyical Brexit.
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best."
If this was the case the stock market would not be performing as strongly as it is . This is a live real time indicator of Financial Performance . What more can anyone want ? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Do you really think the Govt don't know what they want or how they are going to approach getting it?
It's probably true to say that there are goals, and there will be hurdles, and the process of obtaining the goals... or a very close proximity, will be difficult and complex.
I for one am glad the Govt are being cautious about what they say, but I'm sure that behind the scenes there are many discussions being held.
The analogy being used is its like a poker game, and what's the use in trying to play if everyone else can see your cards?"
It's not, it's really nothing like poker at all. Even the government have said that they will let parliament vote on the deal at the end of the process, if they don't tell parliament what they are trying to achieve, how can they know that parliament will support or reject it at the end? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"No one knows what next week will bring never mind next year unless you have a crystal ball and if you have (what are the lottery winning numbers).
The vast majority of people would not choose to amble through life not knowing what they are going to do the next day, week, month or year.
People, families, businesses and even countries make plans and their plans are based on forecasts and likelihoods. Without a plan. you are like a ship without a rudder and without an assessment of what the future might hold, you cant make a plan.
I totally agree that our future at the moment is very, very vague. But that is only because a large number of people voted for meaningless slogans, lies and a fear of foreigners. Month by month now the screw will tighten as reality sets in and the first real earthquake will be when (if) A50 actually gets invoked and the divorce proceedings begin. The uncertainty of today will feel like a sea of tranquility in the period between A50 and phyical Brexit.
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best. If this was the case the stock market would not be performing as strongly as it is . This is a live real time indicator of Financial Performance . What more can anyone want ? "
You know if the £ was worth 1 US cent, the FTSE would be through the roof, but would that make you happier when it cost you £1,000 to fill your car up? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best.
If this was the case the stock market would not be performing as strongly as it is . This is a live real time indicator of Financial Performance . What more can anyone want ? "
And again... You trot out a line that demonstrates a total lack of understanding as to why the FTSE is high when the £GBP is low. Serious newspapers and broadcasters have explained it often enough, but maybe some people choose not to accept it because they are so deeply entrenched in their own post truth world. You have had it explained to you by at least five different posters on here, but you still rattle out the same thing as if it is true. It isn't good that the £GBP has dropped so low. The FTSE has not boomed because of earnings based on increased production, the shares have boomed because those companies earn in foreign currency and declare earning in GBP. That is it. In the same way that Manchester Uniteds debt has increased by 20% in the last quarter, not bexcause of poor attendance or reduced turnover but because they are listed on the NYSE in $USD but earn in £GBP.
I must remind you too that ordinary people are not able to speculate and invest in shares, they live day to day so a booming FTSE brought about by a collapsing pound is no good for them whatsoever. They get to feel the pain of inflation coming down the tracks whilst the fat cats load up on shares. |
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By *oyce69Man
over a year ago
Driffield |
"Do you really think the Govt don't know what they want or how they are going to approach getting it?
It's probably true to say that there are goals, and there will be hurdles, and the process of obtaining the goals... or a very close proximity, will be difficult and complex.
I for one am glad the Govt are being cautious about what they say, but I'm sure that behind the scenes there are many discussions being held.
The analogy being used is its like a poker game, and what's the use in trying to play if everyone else can see your cards?"
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best.
If this was the case the stock market would not be performing as strongly as it is . This is a live real time indicator of Financial Performance . What more can anyone want ?
And again... You trot out a line that demonstrates a total lack of understanding as to why the FTSE is high when the £GBP is low. Serious newspapers and broadcasters have explained it often enough, but maybe some people choose not to accept it because they are so deeply entrenched in their own post truth world. You have had it explained to you by at least five different posters on here, but you still rattle out the same thing as if it is true. It isn't good that the £GBP has dropped so low. The FTSE has not boomed because of earnings based on increased production, the shares have boomed because those companies earn in foreign currency and declare earning in GBP. That is it. In the same way that Manchester Uniteds debt has increased by 20% in the last quarter, not bexcause of poor attendance or reduced turnover but because they are listed on the NYSE in $USD but earn in £GBP.
I must remind you too that ordinary people are not able to speculate and invest in shares, they live day to day so a booming FTSE brought about by a collapsing pound is no good for them whatsoever. They get to feel the pain of inflation coming down the tracks whilst the fat cats load up on shares."
Virtually everyone has an interest in the value of shares these days through their pensions,but yes the bankers and traders that some here love so much are getting a bit fatter on the trade. No one is disputing that import costs will rise from the lower pound but it has been well over valued for s few years now, I had a rep in today that sells German made kithe said the drop had made things harder to sell but they had had a few really good years and now the slide had turned so had to deal with it. On the flip side inward tourism spend has increased and exports will find a home easier now and home produced goods now have an advantage, yes inflation may rise but again a little inflation will help reduce the national debt, controling things is the government's job .
You run a business as I do and when faced with changes and challenges there are always ways to turn things to your advantage surely that is what a progressive business does notsit down and cry foul while the competitors get on with life |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
No one is crying foul, just trying to understand why some many people are so willing to undertake serious self flagellation in order to help a handful or Conservative politician fulfil their political ambitions at the expense of the oiks, riff raff and dare I say it Plebs who have enabled it. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"No one is crying foul, just trying to understand why some many people are so willing to undertake serious self flagellation in order to help a handful or Conservative politician fulfil their political ambitions at the expense of the oiks, riff raff and dare I say it Plebs who have enabled it."
But that is your view on it many including me believe things will be better, only time will tell who is right and by that I dont mean I am keeping my fingers crossed, and if it means that those who have done badly in the current situation get a better deal at the expense of those who have done far too well then that to me is fair,things are out of kilter and unless it is balanced the rise of extremism will be the result |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best.
If this was the case the stock market would not be performing as strongly as it is . This is a live real time indicator of Financial Performance . What more can anyone want ?
And again... You trot out a line that demonstrates a total lack of understanding as to why the FTSE is high when the £GBP is low. Serious newspapers and broadcasters have explained it often enough, but maybe some people choose not to accept it because they are so deeply entrenched in their own post truth world. You have had it explained to you by at least five different posters on here, but you still rattle out the same thing as if it is true. It isn't good that the £GBP has dropped so low. The FTSE has not boomed because of earnings based on increased production, the shares have boomed because those companies earn in foreign currency and declare earning in GBP. That is it. In the same way that Manchester Uniteds debt has increased by 20% in the last quarter, not bexcause of poor attendance or reduced turnover but because they are listed on the NYSE in $USD but earn in £GBP.
I must remind you too that ordinary people are not able to speculate and invest in shares, they live day to day so a booming FTSE brought about by a collapsing pound is no good for them whatsoever. They get to feel the pain of inflation coming down the tracks whilst the fat cats load up on shares."
Thank you for your comments .
However just because five posters have explained why they think that the stock exchange has risen does not mean that anyone is compelled to accept their explanation. In any event it is my money and future that is at risk , not theirs . Speculating and investing in shares are two entirely different concepts . A significant proportion of the population invest in shares either directly ot indirectly via pension funds. Pensioners are dependent on share dividend income. Whilst it is good of the posters to explain why they believe the rise has occured , I prefer to source my information on stocks and shares from two specialist weekly publications about stocks and shsres . Information is also obtained from newspapers .
The rise in share prices can only be due to companies believing that we have a bright economic future . Currency movements will slready have been factored into the equation and as such can be ignored .
A competitive or lower exchange rate should help most people as our exports are more competitively prices and tourists are more likely to visit the Uk. It is a big boost to the hospitality industry .
Whilst imoorted raw materials will be more expensive most of our production is value added and raw materials only make up a propoertion of the cost.
I cannot see any evidence of fat cats loading up on shares . They are a life time investment .
Like many people saving for the future I work full time and in addition run a small businness.
It is in the interest of every single uk resident for the stock market to perform well.
It should also be pointed out the any Uk resident selling a propery owned abroad will have gained by the fall in the pound if they propose to remit the money back to the UK |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
Pension funds very rarely invest in FTSE 100 companies, take a look at the annual report you got from your Pension fund and you will see the key long term investments are made in companies you are likely to have never heard of, and that are slow burn performers and commercial property companies.
Pension funds have moved on from the old days. |
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"No one knows what next week will bring never mind next year unless you have a crystal ball and if you have (what are the lottery winning numbers).
The vast majority of people would not choose to amble through life not knowing what they are going to do the next day, week, month or year.
People, families, businesses and even countries make plans and their plans are based on forecasts and likelihoods. Without a plan. you are like a ship without a rudder and without an assessment of what the future might hold, you cant make a plan.
I totally agree that our future at the moment is very, very vague. But that is only because a large number of people voted for meaningless slogans, lies and a fear of foreigners. Month by month now the screw will tighten as reality sets in and the first real earthquake will be when (if) A50 actually gets invoked and the divorce proceedings begin. The uncertainty of today will feel like a sea of tranquility in the period between A50 and phyical Brexit.
This is the very reason that business and commerce on the whole dont want Brexit, because the uncertainty of it makes planning for the future very, very difficult and means that they generally plan for the worst, rather than the best."
You can only plan for the things that you can influence things that are personal to you, your job your family your home.
As for people voting for meaningless slogans, lies and a fear of foreigners I think you should keep those thoughts to yourself, most people I know that voted leave knew what they were voting for. |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"Pension funds very rarely invest in FTSE 100 companies, take a look at the annual report you got from your Pension fund and you will see the key long term investments are made in companies you are likely to have never heard of, and that are slow burn performers and commercial property companies.
Pension funds have moved on from the old days."
Surely the better way to check it woud be to check the annual reports of various companies and see who the key share holders are.
In most cases they are large pension funds or fund managers acting on behalf of pension funds .
If you were just to check your own pension fund in isolation you would be using a skewed example. |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"Movement in short term share dealings has little to do with confidence in an economy, and more to do with opportunism and a degree of speculation on company reports."
Howevee the fact remains tbat over a sustained period the performance of shares beats all other investments . Movenent in the FTSE index is a good indicator of how the country is performing .
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"Movement in short term share dealings has little to do with confidence in an economy, and more to do with opportunism and a degree of speculation on company reports. Howevee the fact remains tbat over a sustained period the performance of shares beats all other investments . Movenent in the FTSE index is a good indicator of how the country is performing . "
No, investments in UK property, both domestic and commercial beats shares hands down..... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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and if you watched them both on there you would have seem the smug presenters squirming with embarrassment when the victories they so confidently predicted (and were expecting) for both Remain and Clinton proved not to be the case. You can throw the last election into that as well when the exit poll was shown at 10pm. The shock etched on David Dimbleby's face was something to behold...
Thinks the media needs to change its left wing boas as it doesn't seem to be accurately reflective of what the common populace in the Western world are saying at the ballot box.... |
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""Vote leave today and tomorrow...."
House prices will fall by 18%
3,000,000 jobs will be lost
There will be an emergency budget
These sound pretty damn specific to me....
Well £ down by 20% so all values down by 20%. Therefore house prices down by 20% for all non £ investors so i guess that one was pretty well on mark even before we leave the EU.
Guess we will have to wait till article 50 is triggered to see how many jobs we lose. I think we are actually gaining jobs and the pound only fell because it was over valued .The fall in the value of the pound has nothing to do with Brexit .
In addition the Stock Market is performing strongly "
The fall in the pound has nothing to do with Brexit? Of course it doesnt, which is why the value of the pound tumbled immediately after the vote and has remained in the doldrums..... |
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