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More sore losers
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.  "
whats not to like ? looks like the yanks have gone and voted for a bigger buffoon than good old jw bush jnr or ronny regan , him of the iran contra weapons scandal , cant wait to see what he gets upto , its going to be a hoot and will certianly take the mind off of what the sainted mrs maybe is plotting
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
whats not to like ? looks like the yanks have gone and voted for a bigger buffoon than good old jw bush jnr or ronny regan , him of the iran contra weapons scandal , cant wait to see what he gets upto , its going to be a hoot and will certianly take the mind off of what the sainted mrs maybe is plotting
"
Yes that fool ronnie reagan was thought of as a joke when elected, but he was the man who faced down the ruskies and managed to get the nuclear weapons number reduced and made the world far safer by bringing the ussr back to the worlds table,lets face clinton acts as though she wants war |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
whats not to like ? looks like the yanks have gone and voted for a bigger buffoon than good old jw bush jnr or ronny regan , him of the iran contra weapons scandal , cant wait to see what he gets upto , its going to be a hoot and will certianly take the mind off of what the sainted mrs maybe is plotting
Yes that fool ronnie reagan was thought of as a joke when elected, but he was the man who faced down the ruskies and managed to get the nuclear weapons number reduced and made the world far safer by bringing the ussr back to the worlds table,lets face clinton acts as though she wants war "
do you remember just how funnt reagen was when his memory misteriously failed once the shit hit the fan about him selling weapons to iran to fund a terror group in south america , and left ollie north take the shit , yup , the world was sure in safe hands |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
whats not to like ? looks like the yanks have gone and voted for a bigger buffoon than good old jw bush jnr or ronny regan , him of the iran contra weapons scandal , cant wait to see what he gets upto , its going to be a hoot and will certianly take the mind off of what the sainted mrs maybe is plotting
Yes that fool ronnie reagan was thought of as a joke when elected, but he was the man who faced down the ruskies and managed to get the nuclear weapons number reduced and made the world far safer by bringing the ussr back to the worlds table,lets face clinton acts as though she wants war "
you seem confused .... ronnie was the one who was the senile dribbling old fart who faffed about while gorby dismantled the soviet union single handedly |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result. "
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
"
It is the modern attitude that kids are bought up with that if they want something they get it parents of the90's onwards have a lot to answer for,you cannot allways have what you want in life.there is a winner and a loser etc |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
"
You ought to educate yourself about what High Court ruling was about. Even His Royal Godliness Nigel The Omnipotent now accepts that the referendum was advisory and much as he and you might not like it, the law dictates that Parliament now debates and votes on Article 50. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
"
You say 50% so I assume you're talking individual voters and not the whole electoral college system the US uses. In which case, Hillary won the popular vote. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
You ought to educate yourself about what High Court ruling was about. Even His Royal Godliness Nigel The Omnipotent now accepts that the referendum was advisory and much as he and you might not like it, the law dictates that Parliament now debates and votes on Article 50. "
But the judges in Northern Ireland said that is not the law and Parliament doesn't have to vote on Article 50 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
It is the modern attitude that kids are bought up with that if they want something they get it parents of the90's onwards have a lot to answer for,you cannot allways have what you want in life.there is a winner and a loser etc"
 spoiled brats |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result. "
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party. |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
It is the modern attitude that kids are bought up with that if they want something they get it parents of the90's onwards have a lot to answer for,you cannot allways have what you want in life.there is a winner and a loser etc"
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Winning just over 50% of any vote is not a clear, overwhelming majority that allows licence to the winners to do whatever they wish. The other point of view represents huge proportion of society. To make the change sustainable all views have to be taken into account and a workable compromise reached. The compromise must, of course, be loaded in towards those who's view was upheld. However, what was their view if only asked a binary (yes/no) question?
That's the problem. Simple question, extremely complicated answer. The problem is that the answer was preseason s being a simple one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I watched the election in a tv room next to my hotel bar in Birmingham. Well most of it, watch the rest in my room when the bar shut.
It was so nice watching the liberals get another good hiding. They make such a fuss and from now on it will get them nowhere.
As I have said before the world needs a change, there has been too much indulge, politically, emotionally, and economically.
Time to pull up the ladder before it is too late.
Well done Mr Trump Sir, well done the new Mr President. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
whats not to like ? looks like the yanks have gone and voted for a bigger buffoon than good old jw bush jnr or ronny regan , him of the iran contra weapons scandal , cant wait to see what he gets upto , its going to be a hoot and will certianly take the mind off of what the sainted mrs maybe is plotting
Yes that fool ronnie reagan was thought of as a joke when elected, but he was the man who faced down the ruskies and managed to get the nuclear weapons number reduced and made the world far safer by bringing the ussr back to the worlds table,lets face clinton acts as though she wants war
you seem confused .... ronnie was the one who was the senile dribbling old fart who faffed about while gorby dismantled the soviet union single handedly"
Thought you were being serious with that comment for a minute,was just typing a reply suggesting that you looked up the official white house record then realised you were joking  |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
"
its a bit sad that you are unaware that the high court case is not about the vote..
that a citizen is able to exercise the right to hold to account a flaw in a process of such major national importance is a great thing about living in a democracy..
that the PM did not see such a flaw in how the question was asked is the real issue, arrogance, ineptitude or an assumption it was of no consequence to make it binding and nullify any such challenge..
whilst there are some who would remove the principle of such things being challenged, that it can be is a good thing..
the vote wont change, there should be no 2nd referendum on the question of in or out..
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
You ought to educate yourself about what High Court ruling was about. Even His Royal Godliness Nigel The Omnipotent now accepts that the referendum was advisory and much as he and you might not like it, the law dictates that Parliament now debates and votes on Article 50. "
However who cares about the legal jargon or whether the referendum was advisory. Who cares about what the MPs or House of Lords have to say.
We voted to leave and should be concentrating on sorting out relationships with trading partners .
It is a buoyant and successfull economy that pays out wages , I have no interest in the opinion of a barrister or solicitor .
All we are doing now is delaying the inevitable and potentially damaging the economy .
It is manufacturing and service businness that pay our taxes and create jobs.
We need to evaluate how we can reduce our imports and sustain our increased exports.
Now that the pound has fallen to a more realistic level our export market has increased and more tourists are visiting the UK.
The USA election result is great news for the UK. Just look at the performance of shares who do business in the USA yesterday .Ashtead Plant Hire up 11% , Keller up 7 % and a strong gain by CSR as well.
Once Brexit is implemented and Trump is in power , life can only get better . |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
its a bit sad that you are unaware that the high court case is not about the vote..
that a citizen is able to exercise the right to hold to account a flaw in a process of such major national importance is a great thing about living in a democracy..
that the PM did not see such a flaw in how the question was asked is the real issue, arrogance, ineptitude or an assumption it was of no consequence to make it binding and nullify any such challenge..
whilst there are some who would remove the principle of such things being challenged, that it can be is a good thing..
the vote wont change, there should be no 2nd referendum on the question of in or out..
"
but the Northern Ireland High Court didn't see a flaw in the process so who is right? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party.  :At least they are now about to learn what democracy is. -( "
Yes. It is about winning more votes than your opponent but losing out because the founding fathers introduced an electoral college system to prevent the ordinary person having undue influence in an election.
Imagine how the Brexit voters might feel if they won the popular vote just like Hillary did and then they didn't get what they wanted because of historic parliamentary procedures. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
its a bit sad that you are unaware that the high court case is not about the vote..
that a citizen is able to exercise the right to hold to account a flaw in a process of such major national importance is a great thing about living in a democracy..
that the PM did not see such a flaw in how the question was asked is the real issue, arrogance, ineptitude or an assumption it was of no consequence to make it binding and nullify any such challenge..
whilst there are some who would remove the principle of such things being challenged, that it can be is a good thing..
the vote wont change, there should be no 2nd referendum on the question of in or out..
but the Northern Ireland High Court didn't see a flaw in the process so who is right?"
The Northern Ireland hearing was about the rights of the people of N Ireland as per the Good Friday Agreement. Different subject matter. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Apparently we are front of the queue when it comes to trading with Trump's USA. "
That's right. The Trumpster has been going down his list of important countries and the Leaders to contact them. Ten so far, not the UK as yet.... but as long as we are not last, that will be an improvement I guess.
Just as a matter of interest, have you heard anything of what Trump has said? The UK wants free trade deals and he wants to reintroduce protectionism with high tariffs on imports. How is that circle squared? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Apparently we are front of the queue when it comes to trading with Trump's USA.
That's right. The Trumpster has been going down his list of important countries and the Leaders to contact them. Ten so far, not the UK as yet.... but as long as we are not last, that will be an improvement I
guess.
Just as a matter of interest, have you heard anything of what Trump has said? The UK wants free trade deals and he wants to reintroduce protectionism with high tariffs on imports. How is that circle squared? "
sure i heard on the world service that the sainted mrs maybe has already been on the telling bone to the trumpster |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
You ought to educate yourself about what High Court ruling was about. Even His Royal Godliness Nigel The Omnipotent now accepts that the referendum was advisory and much as he and you might not like it, the law dictates that Parliament now debates and votes on Article 50. "
No it doesn't, there is an ongoing appeal process in place now so you can't draw a line under it like that. We will all have to wait and see what happens at the appeal at the Supreme court. The Supreme court could over rule and say that the high Court decision was wrong. |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party."
It seems 'Remoaner syndrome' is not only a British affliction. Americans are being infected with it now too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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He said yesterday, quite clearly that the alliance with the U.K. is the most important, and that in any trade deal we will be front of the queue.
Thing is he hasn't even taken the reins yet. I will wait until he starts before judging the job he is doing.
I'm pleased that he is unlikely to start on the Russians. He seems to get on OK with Vladimir Putin. I know some are putting a negative spin on that, but I believe it will be good for world peace. Clinton would have restarted the Cold War, or maybe worse... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party.
It seems 'Remoaner syndrome' is not only a British affliction. Americans are being infected with it now too. "
They have even more stinking PC liberals than we do.
But compared to the general population, the protests are tiny.
Bring back rubber bullets! |
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"He said yesterday, quite clearly that the alliance with the U.K. is the most important, and that in any trade deal we will be front of the queue.
Thing is he hasn't even taken the reins yet. I will wait until he starts before judging the job he is doing.
I'm pleased that he is unlikely to start on the Russians. He seems to get on OK with Vladimir Putin. I know some are putting a negative spin on that, but I believe it will be good for world peace. Clinton would have restarted the Cold War, or maybe worse..."
Nigel Farage and Aaron Banks are meeting Trump on Saturday, I'm sure they will talk about Uk/USA trade.
Trump dislikes Obama, now knowing Obama said Britain would be at the back of the queue for a trade deal if we leave the EU I'm sure Trump would love to make Obama eat his words when he puts us at the front of the queue.
Also Trump is no fan of the EU, he said he wants trade deals on a 1 to 1 country basis, the EU won't be getting any trade deal from Trump as a 27 member block of nations. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"He said yesterday, quite clearly that the alliance with the U.K. is the most important, and that in any trade deal we will be front of the queue.
Thing is he hasn't even taken the reins yet. I will wait until he starts before judging the job he is doing.
I'm pleased that he is unlikely to start on the Russians. He seems to get on OK with Vladimir Putin. I know some are putting a negative spin on that, but I believe it will be good for world peace. Clinton would have restarted the Cold War, or maybe worse...
Nigel Farage and Aaron Banks are meeting Trump on Saturday, I'm sure they will talk about Uk/USA trade.
Trump dislikes Obama, now knowing Obama said Britain would be at the back of the queue for a trade deal if we leave the EU I'm sure Trump would love to make Obama eat his words when he puts us at the front of the queue.
Also Trump is no fan of the EU, he said he wants trade deals on a 1 to 1 country basis, the EU won't be getting any trade deal from Trump as a 27 member block of nations. "
It just gets better and better doesn't it?
The PODS (prophesies of doom) will continue to cry and moan. But to those of us who know about politics, this is a great thing that happened.
BREXIT & Trump, the world is a better place! |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
its a bit sad that you are unaware that the high court case is not about the vote..
that a citizen is able to exercise the right to hold to account a flaw in a process of such major national importance is a great thing about living in a democracy..
that the PM did not see such a flaw in how the question was asked is the real issue, arrogance, ineptitude or an assumption it was of no consequence to make it binding and nullify any such challenge..
whilst there are some who would remove the principle of such things being challenged, that it can be is a good thing..
the vote wont change, there should be no 2nd referendum on the question of in or out..
but the Northern Ireland High Court didn't see a flaw in the process so who is right?"
not sure tbh, would think that the Supreme court will be made aware so it will maybe form part of their decision.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
its a bit sad that you are unaware that the high court case is not about the vote..
that a citizen is able to exercise the right to hold to account a flaw in a process of such major national importance is a great thing about living in a democracy..
that the PM did not see such a flaw in how the question was asked is the real issue, arrogance, ineptitude or an assumption it was of no consequence to make it binding and nullify any such challenge..
whilst there are some who would remove the principle of such things being challenged, that it can be is a good thing..
the vote wont change, there should be no 2nd referendum on the question of in or out..
but the Northern Ireland High Court didn't see a flaw in the process so who is right?
The Northern Ireland hearing was about the rights of the people of N Ireland as per the Good Friday Agreement. Different subject matter. "
Yes but it was also about who had the authority to invoke Article 50 and they decided that the government alone could do it because all it is is a notice to quit the EU and no laws would actually change until after that. I'm not arguing who was right one way or the other, just pointing out to the lawyers on here that basically its not a law as such just an interpretation and courts could go either way |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
If you google 'briefing paper european union referendum bill 2014-15 5 types of referendum' the first result takes you to a pdf from the House Of Commons library. Section 5, regarding the Types of referendum says the following
'This Bill requires a referendum to be held on the question of the UK’s
continued membership of the European Union (EU) before the end of
2017. It does not contain any requirement for the UK Government to
implement the results of the referendum, nor set a time limit by which a
vote to leave the EU should be implemented. Instead, this is a type of
referendum known as pre-legislative or consultative, which enables the
electorate to voice an opinion which then influences the Government in
its policy decisions. The referendums held in Scotland, Wales and
Northern Ireland in 1997 and 1998 are examples of this type, where
opinion was tested before legislation was introduced. The UK does not
have constitutional provisions which would require the results of a
referendum to be implemented, unlike, for example, the Republic of
Ireland, where the circumstances in which a binding referendum should
be held are set out in its constitution.
In contrast, the legislation which provided for the referendum held on
AV in May 2011 would have implemented the new system of voting
without further legislation, provided that the boundary changes also
provided for in the Parliamentary Voting System and Constituency Act
2011 were also implemented. In the event, there was a substantial
majority against any change. The 1975 referendum was held after the
re-negotiated terms of the UK’s EC membership had been agreed by all
EC Member States and the terms set out in a command paper and
agreed by both Houses.64'
It is quite clear the referendum was advisory and did not give the Government and automatic instruction to trigger Article 50.
The question is therefore whether this action falls within the bounds of Royal Prerogative.
Royal Prerogative does not cover any action which removes any citizens rights. If leaving the European Union removes any citizens rights then Parliament has the final say, not the executive. We fought a civil war to resolve this matter and it has been settled since 1688.
So, does leaving the EU take away any of your rights? That is what it may boil down to, if the Government can show it does not. (The Government lost the case when it admitted it did in the High Court, by the way).
It's unlikely this will be enough even then, because fundamentally the decision was that the prerogative couldn’t be used to trigger art.50 because it would render the ECA72 useless and remove the various EU
rights Britons have accumulated.
Parliament had to pass the ECA, so the government cannot use the prerogative to effectively repeal it through the prerogative.
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"
The Northern Ireland hearing was about the rights of the people of N Ireland as per the Good Friday Agreement. Different subject matter.
Yes but it was also about who had the authority to invoke Article 50 and they decided that the government alone could do it because all it is is a notice to quit the EU and no laws would actually change until after that. I'm not arguing who was right one way or the other, just pointing out to the lawyers on here that basically its not a law as such just an interpretation and courts could go either way"
You are saying that just triggering article 50 in itself does not lose anyone any rights? That will depend on the terms of the brexit?
I thought that, but then I read some legal opinion that says the guaranteeing of any rights that might be lost will be the result of negotiating a NEW treaty. I would say this is complex and perhaps no-one knows and the legislation is insufficiently clear. This is a unique situation. I'm leaning towards the NEW treaty interpretation, but that might just be my bias.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So will it be a "soft" Trump or a "hard" Trump then?
Wonder when someone will suggest a recount or rerun because they think the Americans were too thick to understand what they voted for? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The Northern Ireland hearing was about the rights of the people of N Ireland as per the Good Friday Agreement. Different subject matter.
Yes but it was also about who had the authority to invoke Article 50 and they decided that the government alone could do it because all it is is a notice to quit the EU and no laws would actually change until after that. I'm not arguing who was right one way or the other, just pointing out to the lawyers on here that basically its not a law as such just an interpretation and courts could go either way
You are saying that just triggering article 50 in itself does not lose anyone any rights? That will depend on the terms of the brexit?
I thought that, but then I read some legal opinion that says the guaranteeing of any rights that might be lost will be the result of negotiating a NEW treaty. I would say this is complex and perhaps no-one knows and the legislation is insufficiently clear. This is a unique situation. I'm leaning towards the NEW treaty interpretation, but that might just be my bias.
"
I know, sorry I'm not arguing with you but as you say, the terms won't be known until after A50 has been triggered, its a tricky one |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So will it be a "soft" Trump or a "hard" Trump then?
Wonder when someone will suggest a recount or rerun because they think the Americans were too thick to understand what they voted for? "
as long as its not a wet one  |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
By the way, when I was looking into this I stumbled across the following opinion, which is interesting
that 'so called ‘hard-brexit’ [is] technically ruled out by elements of the Conservative Party manifesto (single market membership was part of their platform for election)'
That is a good point. May is known to be in favour of staying in the single market. Well, she didn't say much in public during the referendum campaign, but she did in a private speech to Goldman Sachs. Might she use this as the tool to get the soft Brexit deal through as our strategy to leave?
In which case, how many Brexiters would feel betrayed? A few? Most? Enough to carry a second referendum vote to reject it?
I suspect it would not be enough. So we would be left with not being able to restrict the movement of labour, still paying in to the EU but without our rebate and no influence on setting the laws.
It's probably not satisfactory to the majority on either side. It just makes us look stupid. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"So will it be a "soft" Trump or a "hard" Trump then?
Wonder when someone will suggest a recount or rerun because they think the Americans were too thick to understand what they voted for?
as long as its not a wet one "
Now that's a truly horrible thought!!! |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party. :At least they are now about to learn what democracy is. -(
Yes. It is about winning more votes than your opponent but losing out because the founding fathers introduced an electoral college system to prevent the ordinary person having undue influence in an election.
Imagine how the Brexit voters might feel if they won the popular vote just like Hillary did and then they didn't get what they wanted because of historic parliamentary procedures."
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat....... |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party. :At least they are now about to learn what democracy is. -(
Yes. It is about winning more votes than your opponent but losing out because the founding fathers introduced an electoral college system to prevent the ordinary person having undue influence in an election.
Imagine how the Brexit voters might feel if they won the popular vote just like Hillary did and then they didn't get what they wanted because of historic parliamentary procedures.
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat......."
Give Ukip the popular vote share from 4 million votes in the general election, Ukip would have around 80 MP's in the house of commons. What is the likelihood the same people harping on about the popular vote for Hillary Clinton would still be complaining that Ukip have too many MP's in Parliament. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party. :At least they are now about to learn what democracy is. -(
Yes. It is about winning more votes than your opponent but losing out because the founding fathers introduced an electoral college system to prevent the ordinary person having undue influence in an election.
Imagine how the Brexit voters might feel if they won the popular vote just like Hillary did and then they didn't get what they wanted because of historic parliamentary procedures.
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat.......
Give Ukip the popular vote share from 4 million votes in the general election, Ukip would have around 80 MP's in the house of commons. What is the likelihood the same people harping on about the popular vote for Hillary Clinton would still be complaining that Ukip have too many MP's in Parliament. "
Its pretty shocking when you look at the numbers...shame there aren't 80 UKIP MPs in Westminster...might stop all the moaning and time wasting that is going on re Brexit x |
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" They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party."
Let's not forget the lib-dummies. Try though one would like.
Neither liberal nor democratic, their pathetic attempts to frustrate the will of the people show them up as the petit-fascists which they have been since the once-decent liberal party got into bed with the SDP. |
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" They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party.
Let's not forget the lib-dummies. Try though one would like.
Neither liberal nor democratic, their pathetic attempts to frustrate the will of the people show them up as the petit-fascists which they have been since the once-decent liberal party got into bed with the SDP."
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat......."
woah.......flag on the play.... misleading...
SNP don't contest every constiuancy.... they only contest 59...
so from a SCOTTISH voting population of 3 million.... they got 1.5 million votes...
so if the arguement you want to make is they got 50% of the vote so therefore should get 50% of the seat, i'll entertain that..... but it also means the tories should get way less that the seats they have, and labour should also get a lot less seats...... |
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By *at69driveMan
over a year ago
Wisbech and A47 corridor |
"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
They are our new breed of arrogant 'liberal' social media fascists who hate democracy. On this side of the pond they make up the core of Jeremy Corbyn's Cheap Labour party. :At least they are now about to learn what democracy is. -(
Yes. It is about winning more votes than your opponent but losing out because the founding fathers introduced an electoral college system to prevent the ordinary person having undue influence in an election.
Imagine how the Brexit voters might feel if they won the popular vote just like Hillary did and then they didn't get what they wanted because of historic parliamentary procedures.
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat.......
Give Ukip the popular vote share from 4 million votes in the general election, Ukip would have around 80 MP's in the house of commons. What is the likelihood the same people harping on about the popular vote for Hillary Clinton would still be complaining that Ukip have too many MP's in Parliament.
Its pretty shocking when you look at the numbers...shame there aren't 80 UKIP MPs in Westminster...might stop all the moaning and time wasting that is going on re Brexit x"
 |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
I struggle to understand what those people on this forum who voted for Brexit want?
UK parliamentary sovereignty? Then let parliament decide on issuing article 50 under whatever terms it deems appropriate. Who said that they wouldn't? Why would you want a government that has not been elected based on any EU exit policy do it. Do you know how a parliamentary democracy functions?
Did you want UK legal primacy? Then accept the judgement of a UK court. A fundamental tenant of democracy is of an independent judiciary. Their decision was made based on the law. The whole point is that they ignore the will of the people or politicians or anybody else. They just look at points of law.
Did you want to be free from influence from an external power? Why run to be America's bitch and ask them for special favours? Do you think it will come without strings attached?
What does "take our country back" mean to you? Sounds like a dictatorship based on the the "common sense" of angry men who know best and therefore don't require consensus or debate.
Yay! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"............. But to those of us who know about politics.............
Amazing statement."
Make of it what you will.
I'm referring to those of us who have not allowed ourselves to be brainwashed by the lefty liberal elite that sit and scoff at the working classes.
The likes of Corbyn, leader of a party that was built by the same people who he holds in contempt now. He will NEVER be elected as Prime Minister. Is it his own fault, or is he a total whack job? It is hard to tell, but he is leader of the official opposition.
The thing is that a large number of left wing activists put Corbyn in place as labour leader. They did so because of his far left leanings, the consequence is that the party is dead in the water now.
So what have they achieved with their so called "superior" political intellect? Sweet FA, how very clever of them.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I struggle to understand what those people on this forum who voted for Brexit want?
UK parliamentary sovereignty? Then let parliament decide on issuing article 50 under whatever terms it deems appropriate. Who said that they wouldn't? Why would you want a government that has not been elected based on any EU exit policy do it. Do you know how a parliamentary democracy functions?
Did you want UK legal primacy? Then accept the judgement of a UK court. A fundamental tenant of democracy is of an independent judiciary. Their decision was made based on the law. The whole point is that they ignore the will of the people or politicians or anybody else. They just look at points of law.
Did you want to be free from influence from an external power? Why run to be America's bitch and ask them for special favours? Do you think it will come without strings attached?
What does "take our country back" mean to you? Sounds like a dictatorship based on the the "common sense" of angry men who know best and therefore don't require consensus or debate.
Yay!"
but Article 50 is nothing to do with terms, it is simply a notice to quit. Terms can be discussed and voted on afterwards |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I struggle to understand what those people on this forum who voted for Brexit want?
UK parliamentary sovereignty? Then let parliament decide on issuing article 50 under whatever terms it deems appropriate. Who said that they wouldn't? Why would you want a government that has not been elected based on any EU exit policy do it. Do you know how a parliamentary democracy functions?
Did you want UK legal primacy? Then accept the judgement of a UK court. A fundamental tenant of democracy is of an independent judiciary. Their decision was made based on the law. The whole point is that they ignore the will of the people or politicians or anybody else. They just look at points of law.
Did you want to be free from influence from an external power? Why run to be America's bitch and ask them for special favours? Do you think it will come without strings attached?
What does "take our country back" mean to you? Sounds like a dictatorship based on the the "common sense" of angry men who know best and therefore don't require consensus or debate.
Yay!"
I would rather trade with the US than the EU every time, especially now they have President Trump in the drivers seat.
Some men are angry, but we have every right to be. The ruling classes are attempting to dampen down or even stop BREXIT, after the majority voted for it in a referendum. So yes we are angry, and we demand that the Govt keep their promise and honour the result. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Winning just over 50% of any vote is not a clear, overwhelming majority that allows licence to the winners to do whatever they wish. The other point of view represents huge proportion of society. To make the change sustainable all views have to be taken into account and a workable compromise reached. The compromise must, of course, be loaded in towards those who's view was upheld. However, what was their view if only asked a binary (yes/no) question?
That's the problem. Simple question, extremely complicated answer. The problem is that the answer was preseason s being a simple one."
It was a yes /no question. In/out? We voted out.
In each state it was Trump/Clinton (and a couple of proper nut jobs) . Trump took the majority in most states. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
If that is truely your position shags then for the first time you have really gone down in my estimation
As long as any demonstrations are peaceful then I don't see why anyone would have a problem with it!
Otherwise you are just basically denying freedom of speech and we end up being no better than a tinpot dictatorship |
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"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol."
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. |
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The problem is quite simple.
As with Brexit, the US election is a big FUCK YOU to whatever political establishment.
Those who lost are crying into their cocoa, unable to fathom how anyone could be so stupid.
Those that won are crowing and shouting "Get over it!"
.
Problem is, none of that helps anything.
There's still plenty of decisions that need taking, countries to be governed, crises to be tackled - at home and abroad - and this sideshow detracts from that.
Both sides need to get over it and start finding answers to problems or how Brexit will be achieved and at what cost or how the Trump presidency will work without giving China & Russia the upper hand.
Because they have to.
And if we don't start thinking about how we're gonna dig ourselves out then there are other people, peoples and politicians who are, no doubt, waiting to take advantage.
.
Embrace chaos. It's the new global meme.
Or continue to squabble.
Whatever.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol.
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. "
Yes, that as well and if we had someone like trump in sweden, we wouldnt be in the mess it is now in. Although sd is on the rise. |
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"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol.
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. Yes, that as well and if we had someone like trump in sweden, we wouldnt be in the mess it is now in. Although sd is on the rise."
Good post. |
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"It seems it's kicking off in America, some folk didn't like the result.
I said it when the Brexit losers started threatening to go to court, and I'll say it again.
It's a sad day for democracy when there is a clear majority vote (ie greater than 50%) and the minority can appeal / fight / take the vote to court.
It is the modern attitude that kids are bought up with that if they want something they get it parents of the90's onwards have a lot to answer for,you cannot allways have what you want in life.there is a winner and a loser etc"
My fault then !!! |
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By *anes HubbyCouple
over a year ago
Babbacombe Torquay |
"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol.
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. Yes, that as well and if we had someone like trump in sweden, we wouldnt be in the mess it is now in. Although sd is on the rise."
I think the Swedes are too intelligent to elect a Trump like character |
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"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol.
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. Yes, that as well and if we had someone like trump in sweden, we wouldnt be in the mess it is now in. Although sd is on the rise.
I think the Swedes are too intelligent to elect a Trump like character "
Sweden is dreadfully dull |
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"The problem is quite simple.
As with Brexit, the US election is a big FUCK YOU to whatever political establishment.
Those who lost are crying into their cocoa, unable to fathom how anyone could be so stupid.
Those that won are crowing and shouting "Get over it!"
.
Problem is, none of that helps anything.
There's still plenty of decisions that need taking, countries to be governed, crises to be tackled - at home and abroad - and this sideshow detracts from that.
Both sides need to get over it and start finding answers to problems or how Brexit will be achieved and at what cost or how the Trump presidency will work without giving China & Russia the upper hand.
Because they have to.
And if we don't start thinking about how we're gonna dig ourselves out then there are other people, peoples and politicians who are, no doubt, waiting to take advantage.
.
Embrace chaos. It's the new global meme.
Or continue to squabble.
Whatever.
"
What an intelligent post |
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"The problem is quite simple.
As with Brexit, the US election is a big FUCK YOU to whatever political establishment.
Those who lost are crying into their cocoa, unable to fathom how anyone could be so stupid.
Those that won are crowing and shouting "Get over it!"
.
Problem is, none of that helps anything.
There's still plenty of decisions that need taking, countries to be governed, crises to be tackled - at home and abroad - and this sideshow detracts from that.
Both sides need to get over it and start finding answers to problems or how Brexit will be achieved and at what cost or how the Trump presidency will work without giving China & Russia the upper hand.
Because they have to.
And if we don't start thinking about how we're gonna dig ourselves out then there are other people, peoples and politicians who are, no doubt, waiting to take advantage.
.
Embrace chaos. It's the new global meme.
Or continue to squabble.
Whatever.
What an intelligent post "
From the man who reads Mr Men books. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol.
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. Yes, that as well and if we had someone like trump in sweden, we wouldnt be in the mess it is now in. Although sd is on the rise.
Good post."
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The sour grapes need to suck it up and get on with it and the illegal aliens better sort out their paper work lol.
does sour grapes apply to your opinion about what you see as the feminist takeover in your land of birth.. Yes, that as well and if we had someone like trump in sweden, we wouldnt be in the mess it is now in. Although sd is on the rise.
I think the Swedes are too intelligent to elect a Trump like character "
That is because they are not ready for a change like america is, but they are thinking the same as me, but due to political correctness they are not allowed to say it. |
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By *andS66Couple
over a year ago
Derby |
"
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat.......
woah.......flag on the play.... misleading...
SNP don't contest every constiuancy.... they only contest 59...
so from a SCOTTISH voting population of 3 million.... they got 1.5 million votes...
so if the arguement you want to make is they got 50% of the vote so therefore should get 50% of the seat, i'll entertain that..... but it also means the tories should get way less that the seats they have, and labour should also get a lot less seats......"
Theres nothing to stop the SNP contesting as many seats as they want. How many seats did greens and UKIP contest?
And don't forget it was a UK wide general election.
More than happy with SNP only having half the seats in Scotland, if that's what you are advocating.
But actually, what you might have been better off talking about was the skewed numbers for tories and labour.
Although you could then again read the thread I was responding to, to see the context of what I was saying. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Just for the record;Trump called for protests after the 2012 election. He now thinks that these ones against him are fine too.
Enjoy.
http://fox5sandiego.com/2016/11/11/trump-tweets-praise-for-protesters-hours-after-calling-them-very-unfair/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I think Trump will change his mind a few times as he gets used to the slowdown after that long and unpleasant election campaign. I bet it is difficult coping with such a huge and sudden change of pace.
He will be getting all sorts of advice, and with experience he will learn to hear it all before making any announcements of decisions going forward.
He will definitely have to stop his shooting from the lip type behaviour. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat.......
woah.......flag on the play.... misleading...
SNP don't contest every constiuancy.... they only contest 59...
so from a SCOTTISH voting population of 3 million.... they got 1.5 million votes...
so if the arguement you want to make is they got 50% of the vote so therefore should get 50% of the seat, i'll entertain that..... but it also means the tories should get way less that the seats they have, and labour should also get a lot less seats......
Theres nothing to stop the SNP contesting as many seats as they want. How many seats did greens and UKIP contest?
And don't forget it was a UK wide general election.
More than happy with SNP only having half the seats in Scotland, if that's what you are advocating.
But actually, what you might have been better off talking about was the skewed numbers for tories and labour.
Although you could then again read the thread I was responding to, to see the context of what I was saying. "
but the comparison you were making was a misleading one since UKIP and the Greens got their total vote spread over 632 seats.... the SNP got their vote spread over 59!!!!
you can't use one as a direct comparison to the other... you are comparing apples with oranges!!!!
if you wanted to say that the tories got 11.3 million votes and ended up with 330 seats.... whereas UKIP got 3.9 million votes and ended up with one seat, that would be a fair arguement because they contest the same amount of seats..... apples with apples!!!!
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Surprised obama or hillary hasn't come out and called for these protesters/riotors to calm and except the results.
on another note and I only just read this but apparently trump is going to be giving all his presidential salary and expenses which is 400k per annum to vets and family's of soliders who have lost loved ones.
he said he wont be taking a penny whilst in office.
I know he doesn't need it but its a good gesture all the same. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"I think Trump will change his mind a few times as he gets used to the slowdown after that long and unpleasant election campaign. I bet it is difficult coping with such a huge and sudden change of pace.
He will be getting all sorts of advice, and with experience he will learn to hear it all before making any announcements of decisions going forward.
He will definitely have to stop his shooting from the lip type behaviour. "
as long as the protests are peaceful then he can't keep argueing against them because it looks really undemocratic.... hence the 2nd tweet that came out after the first one which came out criticising them......
there s a huge demo being planned for the day after his inaugeration based on his statements made again women and womens rights in this election (roe vs wade, defunding planned parenthood, abortion rights and womens right to choose ect)
i think he will end up making a ton of mistakes, and a lot of time he is going to have to walk them back.. and actually apologise which he is not shown a willingness to do at the moment....
it will be interesting |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Surprised obama or hillary hasn't come out and called for these protesters/riotors to calm and except the results.
"
you have to seperate those..... i don't think anyone should criticize peaceful protest... and you wont see anyone do that!!! and you saw trump have to walk back his comments...
those who cause criminal damage should be charged and no one is saying otherwise |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Peaceful protests are often either infiltrated by agent provocateurs or attacked by people with an opposite agenda. In the UK this seems to happen a lot, and historically, remember London Riots, the poll tax demos, and the miners strikes.
Hopefully this will not happen in the US this time, not that I sympathise with their cause, I just hate to see people who do not have bad intentions, get drawn into things that can result in their arrest.
I wouldn't address the protesters face to face if I was Donald, and doubt if the security services would let him tbh. Even an appeal on television would probably fall on deaf ears. Hillary on the other hand could help, if she had a mind to, but she too would be best not to put herself in harms way. Perhaps Obama would be the best person to speak to the protesters?
I do think it is a sad state of affairs when sections of the population can't see past a crushing defeat and feel the need to make such a fuss. He isn't even in the Whitehouse yet, Obama is still in the chair AFAIK. |
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"Surprised obama or hillary hasn't come out and called for these protesters/riotors to calm and except the results.
you have to seperate those..... i don't think anyone should criticize peaceful protest... and you wont see anyone do that!!! and you saw trump have to walk back his comments...
those who cause criminal damage should be charged and no one is saying otherwise"
It's not been peaceful protest though has it Fabio. There has been widespread violence, vandalism and criminal damage. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Surprised obama or hillary hasn't come out and called for these protesters/riotors to calm and except the results.
you have to seperate those..... i don't think anyone should criticize peaceful protest... and you wont see anyone do that!!! and you saw trump have to walk back his comments...
those who cause criminal damage should be charged and no one is saying otherwise
It's not been peaceful protest though has it Fabio. There has been widespread violence, vandalism and criminal damage. "
And all coming from the tolerant liberal side of society eh, who'd have thought  |
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"Surprised obama or hillary hasn't come out and called for these protesters/riotors to calm and except the results.
you have to seperate those..... i don't think anyone should criticize peaceful protest... and you wont see anyone do that!!! and you saw trump have to walk back his comments...
those who cause criminal damage should be charged and no one is saying otherwise
It's not been peaceful protest though has it Fabio. There has been widespread violence, vandalism and criminal damage.
And all coming from the tolerant liberal side of society eh, who'd have thought "
"When they go low, we go high"
oh wait that must only apply if things look to be going their way.
"Love trumps hate" oops another moto that doesn't nean much to the people chanting it whilst smashing up windows etc. |
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By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"Surprised obama or hillary hasn't come out and called for these protesters/riotors to calm and except the results.
you have to seperate those..... i don't think anyone should criticize peaceful protest... and you wont see anyone do that!!! and you saw trump have to walk back his comments...
those who cause criminal damage should be charged and no one is saying otherwise
It's not been peaceful protest though has it Fabio. There has been widespread violence, vandalism and criminal damage. "
no.... the majority of it has been peaceful and it is the isolated incident that has been violent, why is why Trump was forced in effect to send out that 2nd tweet praising people who want to protest..... |
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"
You mean, like the general election?
SNP 1.5 M votes 56 seats
Greens 1.2 M votes 1 seat
UKIP 4M votes 1 seat.......
woah.......flag on the play.... misleading...
SNP don't contest every constiuancy.... they only contest 59...
so from a SCOTTISH voting population of 3 million.... they got 1.5 million votes...
so if the arguement you want to make is they got 50% of the vote so therefore should get 50% of the seat, i'll entertain that..... but it also means the tories should get way less that the seats they have, and labour should also get a lot less seats......"
I still can't see that as a valid argument, the fact remains that those 1.5M votes being concentrated in a small part of the country still gives the SNP a lot more power than UKIPs 4M gave them. You can see why some would call that a flaw in the system. |
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"There was a proposal to change the first past the post system to proportional representation. UKIP did not support it. It was some sort of a Liberal Democrat conspiracy. Bloody liberals "
No the Liberal Democrat referendum was on something called the Alternative vote or AV. It is a slightly different system to Proportional representation. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"There was a proposal to change the first past the post system to proportional representation. UKIP did not support it. It was some sort of a Liberal Democrat conspiracy. Bloody liberals
No the Liberal Democrat referendum was on something called the Alternative vote or AV. It is a slightly different system to Proportional representation. "
You are correct. It was a compromise to retain the link to the constituency. Probably not good for more polarising parties as they wouldn't get many second or third votes.
That's why UKIP and the Conservatives really disliked it |
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"There was a proposal to change the first past the post system to proportional representation. UKIP did not support it. It was some sort of a Liberal Democrat conspiracy. Bloody liberals
No the Liberal Democrat referendum was on something called the Alternative vote or AV. It is a slightly different system to Proportional representation.
You are correct. It was a compromise to retain the link to the constituency. Probably not good for more polarising parties as they wouldn't get many second or third votes.
That's why UKIP and the Conservatives really disliked it "
Well if the Lib dems had proposed a referendum on a real Proportional Representation system for our general elections they may have got more support. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
"
Not really. No government delivers it's prospectus and it has to compromise over a lot of legislation to make it acceptable to the two Houses.
Brexit is also generational and cross-party. The exact form of Brexit, which will happen, is not defined and has to account for everyone's interests including those who voted to stay and want to retain close ties to Europe.
That is democracy. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
Not really. No government delivers it's prospectus and it has to compromise over a lot of legislation to make it acceptable to the two Houses.
Brexit is also generational and cross-party. The exact form of Brexit, which will happen, is not defined and has to account for everyone's interests including those who voted to stay and want to retain close ties to Europe.
That is democracy."
most who voted leave want close ties to Europe just not the EU. You cannot please all of the people all of the time |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
Not really. No government delivers it's prospectus and it has to compromise over a lot of legislation to make it acceptable to the two Houses.
Brexit is also generational and cross-party. The exact form of Brexit, which will happen, is not defined and has to account for everyone's interests including those who voted to stay and want to retain close ties to Europe.
That is democracy.
most who voted leave want close ties to Europe just not the EU. You cannot please all of the people all of the time"
This is another thing that annoys me about the remoaners. They try to imply that by leaving the EU we are leaving Europe, opting out of being Europeans.
What they seem incapable of remembering is that we ARE EUROPEANS. We will always be a European Island whether we are in the EU or not.
So when we eventually do leave the EU, (if the politicians don't sell us down the river), we will still be trading as a European country. Our neighbours will still be Europeans, and they will do business with us.
Those spreading horror stories about life outside the EU are either deluded, or nasty and vengeful. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
The relationship with the EU has not been decided, so the terms of Brexit have to be a compromise that works for the UK in it's entirety not just those that voted to leave and not just the government which was not elected based on a Brexit strategy.
Name calling and labelling is exactly what the newly rebranded liberal = fascist terminology have been accused of doing. You wouldn't make exactly the mistake surely.
Hence parliamentary oversight. That is our sort of democracy. It's the one that generated the opportunity for a referendum. We do not elect 5 year dictatorships on the UK, we elect fractious parties that need convincing and force reasonable compromise. "Disciplined" party voting delivers crappy legislation because it's a rubber stamp not a critical assessment. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"The relationship with the EU has not been decided, so the terms of Brexit have to be a compromise that works for the UK in it's entirety not just those that voted to leave and not just the government which was not elected based on a Brexit strategy.
Name calling and labelling is exactly what the newly rebranded liberal = fascist terminology have been accused of doing. You wouldn't make exactly the mistake surely.
Hence parliamentary oversight. That is our sort of democracy. It's the one that generated the opportunity for a referendum. We do not elect 5 year dictatorships on the UK, we elect fractious parties that need convincing and force reasonable compromise. "Disciplined" party voting delivers crappy legislation because it's a rubber stamp not a critical assessment."
so what compromise would you suggest? And don't say staying a part of the single market if it means we have to obey the 4 rules because that is what the majority have already voted against. It is up to the EU to compromise if anybody |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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It has been said on this forum that a government can no longer call a snap general election, that it has to stand for a fixed term.
I haven't read up about this, although I will get round to it, honestly. But it does sound to me as though we are stuck with this government until 2020 unless there is a vote of no confidence and the majority of MP's vote in favour of it.
It is a shame, because I feel that the Tories need a bigger majority in order for BREXIT to go through parliament without massive compromises. I also think that an election now, with Corbyn as leader of the Labour Party, that the Tories would make massive gains and increase their majority. |
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"a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
Not really. No government delivers it's prospectus and it has to compromise over a lot of legislation to make it acceptable to the two Houses.
Brexit is also generational and cross-party. The exact form of Brexit, which will happen, is not defined and has to account for everyone's interests including those who voted to stay and want to retain close ties to Europe.
That is democracy.
most who voted leave want close ties to Europe just not the EU. You cannot please all of the people all of the time
This is another thing that annoys me about the remoaners. They try to imply that by leaving the EU we are leaving Europe, opting out of being Europeans.
What they seem incapable of remembering is that we ARE EUROPEANS. We will always be a European Island whether we are in the EU or not.
So when we eventually do leave the EU, (if the politicians don't sell us down the river), we will still be trading as a European country. Our neighbours will still be Europeans, and they will do business with us.
Those spreading horror stories about life outside the EU are either deluded, or nasty and vengeful. "
This is missing the point. Of course geographically we remain in Europe! What people are worried about is that we will have much less cooperation with the rest of the continent, from security matters to collaborative medical and scientific research. That is all up in the air and yet to be decided. It might all be fine. It might not. People are allowed to worry! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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There is a big difference between democracy and being sensible for the best intentions for the country and one is to keep london still as the financial hub of the world. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
Not really. No government delivers it's prospectus and it has to compromise over a lot of legislation to make it acceptable to the two Houses.
Brexit is also generational and cross-party. The exact form of Brexit, which will happen, is not defined and has to account for everyone's interests including those who voted to stay and want to retain close ties to Europe.
That is democracy.
most who voted leave want close ties to Europe just not the EU. You cannot please all of the people all of the time
This is another thing that annoys me about the remoaners. They try to imply that by leaving the EU we are leaving Europe, opting out of being Europeans.
What they seem incapable of remembering is that we ARE EUROPEANS. We will always be a European Island whether we are in the EU or not.
So when we eventually do leave the EU, (if the politicians don't sell us down the river), we will still be trading as a European country. Our neighbours will still be Europeans, and they will do business with us.
Those spreading horror stories about life outside the EU are either deluded, or nasty and vengeful.
This is missing the point. Of course geographically we remain in Europe! What people are worried about is that we will have much less cooperation with the rest of the continent, from security matters to collaborative medical and scientific research. That is all up in the air and yet to be decided. It might all be fine. It might not. People are allowed to worry! "
Of course they are, some of us are worried that the politicians will find a way to wriggle out of BREXIT altogether. Or stay in the single market and still allow the free movement of people.
Some of us believe that our future has to be outside the constraints of the EU altogether.
Compromise on this would be treachery. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
'Of course they are, some of us are worried that the politicians will find a way to wriggle out of BREXIT altogether. Or stay in the single market and still allow the free movement of people.
Some of us believe that our future has to be outside the constraints of the EU altogether.
Compromise on this would be treachery.'
If you had to choose between being out of the EU but still in the Single Market with free movement of people still, still contributing to the EU and no say in the rules, or being fully in the EU, having some influence in the rules and direction the EU was going and having the UK rebate still, which would you choose?
A lot of Brexiters I know say we would be better off not leaving at all if we end up with the single market/unrestricted movement/contributions/no say outcome, but they were fairly lukewarm brexiters, so I'd be interested what the more passionate Leave people on here thought? |
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"The problem is quite simple.
As with Brexit, the US election is a big FUCK YOU to whatever political establishment.
Those who lost are crying into their cocoa, unable to fathom how anyone could be so stupid.
Those that won are crowing and shouting "Get over it!"
.
Problem is, none of that helps anything.
There's still plenty of decisions that need taking, countries to be governed, crises to be tackled - at home and abroad - and this sideshow detracts from that.
Both sides need to get over it and start finding answers to problems or how Brexit will be achieved and at what cost or how the Trump presidency will work without giving China & Russia the upper hand.
Because they have to.
And if we don't start thinking about how we're gonna dig ourselves out then there are other people, peoples and politicians who are, no doubt, waiting to take advantage.
.
Embrace chaos. It's the new global meme.
Or continue to squabble.
Whatever.
What an intelligent post
From the man who writes his own books. "
FTFY
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"a majority is still a majority, no matter how large it is, as long as its over 50 per cent, Incidentally that's a figure (50 percent of the vote) that every elected government in the last 100 odd years in this country hasn't managed to achieve. yet that government has the licence to do "what it wishes" despite on average 60 to 65 percent of the vote (much higher than 48 percent who didn't want brexit) voting for anyone other than the governing party of the day....
Not really. No government delivers it's prospectus and it has to compromise over a lot of legislation to make it acceptable to the two Houses.
Brexit is also generational and cross-party. The exact form of Brexit, which will happen, is not defined and has to account for everyone's interests including those who voted to stay and want to retain close ties to Europe.
That is democracy.
most who voted leave want close ties to Europe just not the EU. You cannot please all of the people all of the time
This is another thing that annoys me about the remoaners. They try to imply that by leaving the EU we are leaving Europe, opting out of being Europeans.
What they seem incapable of remembering is that we ARE EUROPEANS. We will always be a European Island whether we are in the EU or not.
So when we eventually do leave the EU, (if the politicians don't sell us down the river), we will still be trading as a European country. Our neighbours will still be Europeans, and they will do business with us.
Those spreading horror stories about life outside the EU are either deluded, or nasty and vengeful.
This is missing the point. Of course geographically we remain in Europe! What people are worried about is that we will have much less cooperation with the rest of the continent, from security matters to collaborative medical and scientific research. That is all up in the air and yet to be decided. It might all be fine. It might not. People are allowed to worry!
Of course they are, some of us are worried that the politicians will find a way to wriggle out of BREXIT altogether. Or stay in the single market and still allow the free movement of people.
Some of us believe that our future has to be outside the constraints of the EU altogether.
Compromise on this would be treachery."
Treachery ! Lock up anyone who disagrees is closer to it  |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
Parliament can change the law on five year terms. Quite easy really. Just like any other legislation it's voted on. It was only brought in to ensure that the coalition would be focused.
I believe that people who really thought about either the US or Brexit votes made.their decision either way because they sincerely believe that it will make their lives better.
Do we agree that's true?
I still struggle to understand what has changed in society that means that name calling and disrespect of a contradictory view has become acceptable.
I don't see what improvement we will see from Brexit. As a small country by population (the potential market) or GDP (the potential purchasing power) compared to the big players including the EU. So if we want to cut trade deals what do we have to bargain with?
If we leave the single market then why would multinational remain or invest here if they have to trade with everywhere across a tariff barrier?
Perhaps we reduce corporation tax to be more attractive. That reduces government income unless it increases investment. In reality we probably retain companies that are here. Bigger deficit.
Tariff barriers and devaluation of the currency will lead to increased prices. Which makes the country further uncompetitive.
The other thread of argument about taking back control of "stuff" doesn't work for me We will have to meet the regulations of any country that we trade with just as they will have to meet ours. We just can't influence those in the EU now.
I know this sounds pretty negative but I didn't hear a good economic argument for leaving. There was hope. There was emotion. There was a certain arrogance that everyone would want to trade with us.
Immigration appears to have been the single biggest issue. I'm not sure anyone pretends otherwise. No, that is not racist. Large influxes of one population into another is unsettling. However, what's the driver of this? It's companies, large and small wanting to pay people as little as possible. They are mainly run by middle aged white, British men. They can do this because there is a big population to draw from so unskilled labour cannot raise it's price. On the other hand, skilled labour is becoming more and more expensive and being sucked in from all over the planet. There's a question here about how important and valuable education is seen as in the UK.
However, the UK alone becomes more vulnerable to the threats and demands of big business. Would the UK government alone move against Google or Microsoft as the EU has?
What's more positive path for our country? I didn't hear one during the referendum, but can I get one now?
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By *razedcatMan
over a year ago
London / Herts |
I cannot believe so many people actually believe our eventual Brexit is going to bring about substantial change to the UK.
For the sake of our economy, there's going to be big compromises, so much so that it wasn't worth leaving the EU in the first place. Well, besides restoring some misguided sense of national pride. |
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By *isandreTV/TS
over a year ago
Hartlepool |
"Just for good measure, wasn't it those nasty liberals who protested against Starbucks and Google and Facebook and banks dodging their taxes? "
And the EU the ones that are being more successful holding them to account due to their extra clout, compared to the UK. It has been the UK leading the EU. |
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