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Brexit negotiations
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As we get closer to the negotiations and Article 50 being triggered we're starting to see the shape negotiations are taking.
The EU are demanding a €49billion settlement from the UK, May is obviously looking to negotiate that down by as much as €20billion, still leaving a €29 billion bill to be paid. Interestingly France and Germany were pushing for a figure of over €70 billion but they compromised.
The EU have decided that trade negotiations will not take place until after the split is agreed which is damaging to Mays position as they wanted to try and use trade to soften the blow of Brexit.
The EUs also refusing to negotiate the status of Brits in the EU and Europeans in Britain from its current point and is instead starting from the position that British people will be treated in the same way as Americans/Canadians.
May has also said that they are completely withdrawing from the single market, customs union and the European Court of Justice.
Now we've seen the how the negotiations starting what do we think its going to end up with? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As we get closer to the negotiations and Article 50 being triggered we're starting to see the shape negotiations are taking.
The EU are demanding a €49billion settlement from the UK, May is obviously looking to negotiate that down by as much as €20billion, still leaving a €29 billion bill to be paid. Interestingly France and Germany were pushing for a figure of over €70 billion but they compromised.
The EU have decided that trade negotiations will not take place until after the split is agreed which is damaging to Mays position as they wanted to try and use trade to soften the blow of Brexit.
The EUs also refusing to negotiate the status of Brits in the EU and Europeans in Britain from its current point and is instead starting from the position that British people will be treated in the same way as Americans/Canadians.
May has also said that they are completely withdrawing from the single market, customs union and the European Court of Justice.
Now we've seen the how the negotiations starting what do we think its going to end up with?"
uk will leave some deal will be reached about EU citerzens here to stay and same on the other side ..no free movement to and from the UK at lease half of that bill will needs to be paid |
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As Teresa May has already said in her Brexit speech "No Deal is better than a bad deal". We should be prepared to walk away from the table and go on WTO rules if the EU don't want to negotiate sensibly. It was the leader of the 'Leave means Leave' group suggestion Richard Tice who first said 'No Deal is better than a bad deal' glad to see Teresa May took it on board. I actually like George Galloway's suggestion we should just send the EU an email with the simple statement "Bye, we're out of here" and be done with it. The EU project is like a religion for these Euro loons in Brussels, I don't think they have any intention of negotiating sensibly. We should just leave now and go straight into WTO default position, many countries in the world are doing great and have good growth figures on WTO rules. We can then also start immediately signing our own trade deals with other countries all over the globe many of who are already queueing up to get a deal with the UK. As for paying the EU an exit bill they can shove it where the sun don't shine. |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
didnt think we were having any discussions until after art 50 ?
just more changes from the eu position, perhaps it is time to send them a dear John text and let them make the first move |
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be interesting year, some big elections that could damage the EU or make it stronger. after 2016 we should all no anything is on the cards.
Least we not back of the line for our pals in USA, now that would of been huge set back and its now in USA interest for EU to fail well Trumps at the helm, he wants deals so he says and so far the guys doing everything he said he would |
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"Another clairvoyant thread we have not even started"
Not a clairvoyant thread, May has stated her positions so far and the EU have stated theirs. The British government released a white paper recently as well.
If you think no one involved on either side isnt already working on their positions and negotiating strategy and goals already thats just pretty naive.
The interesting thing is that the EU seems to be setting the agenda so far. May doesnt seem to be able to get the talks to proceed in a way thats favourable to the UKs goals and the EU seems to be having things its own way at the moment. That might change but its certainly a set back. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"As we get closer to the negotiations and Article 50 being triggered we're starting to see the shape negotiations are taking.
The EU are demanding a €49billion settlement from the UK, May is obviously looking to negotiate that down by as much as €20billion, still leaving a €29 billion bill to be paid. Interestingly France and Germany were pushing for a figure of over €70 billion but they compromised.
The EU have decided that trade negotiations will not take place until after the split is agreed which is damaging to Mays position as they wanted to try and use trade to soften the blow of Brexit.
The EUs also refusing to negotiate the status of Brits in the EU and Europeans in Britain from its current point and is instead starting from the position that British people will be treated in the same way as Americans/Canadians.
May has also said that they are completely withdrawing from the single market, customs union and the European Court of Justice.
Now we've seen the how the negotiations starting what do we think its going to end up with?"
if they demand that settlement then we demand a share of our assets in the EU.
We can do trade deals with whoever we want at any time now, there is nothing legally stopping us once article 50 is triggered its just a 'gentlemans' agreement.
Considering there are more EU citizens in the UK than vice versa that will be resolved quickly.
Leaving the single market and customs union is the right and only way to go, so all in all we will come out of it well  |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"As Teresa May has already said in her Brexit speech "No Deal is better than a bad deal". We should be prepared to walk away from the table and go on WTO rules if the EU don't want to negotiate sensibly. It was the leader of the 'Leave means Leave' group suggestion Richard Tice who first said 'No Deal is better than a bad deal' glad to see Teresa May took it on board. I actually like George Galloway's suggestion we should just send the EU an email with the simple statement "Bye, we're out of here" and be done with it. The EU project is like a religion for these Euro loons in Brussels, I don't think they have any intention of negotiating sensibly. We should just leave now and go straight into WTO default position, many countries in the world are doing great and have good growth figures on WTO rules. We can then also start immediately signing our own trade deals with other countries all over the globe many of who are already queueing up to get a deal with the UK. As for paying the EU an exit bill they can shove it where the sun don't shine. "
If that is the case, we best get on with getting out WTO schedule in order. From what I read we are piggybacking on the EUs schedule with WTO. So we are going to need to negotiate our own. With 150-odd countries. Many of which we are already pissing off via Brexit and those such as Argentina who might want to press us for other concessions as part of the deal.
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Interesting points raised here.
The UK hold ALL the cards as only they can trigger A50. So until then we have limbo land and some of our Experts here in the forums should be applying for jobs as negotiators!
Once we leave the EU yes Brits living in Europe will be in exactly the same situation as Americans or Canadians - and all that entails. It has massive impact on Permanent residents as it depends on what is agreed. Had the UK been statesman like and agreed the rights of EU citizens then the EU may have done the same for expats. We are now just bargaining chips. Both sides have not come out well from this stance - particularly the UK - 40% of EU doctors looking to leave NHS with 23% undecided - that will impact.
Like the UK there are a lot of "economic migrants " here in the EU. Often 1.3m is quoted as being here, but those are the registered ones - more like 3m if you added the others in.
Until it's all been agreed - nobody knows what will happen.
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"As we get closer to the negotiations and Article 50 being triggered we're starting to see the shape negotiations are taking.
The EU are demanding a €49billion settlement from the UK, May is obviously looking to negotiate that down by as much as €20billion, still leaving a €29 billion bill to be paid. Interestingly France and Germany were pushing for a figure of over €70 billion but they compromised.
The EU have decided that trade negotiations will not take place until after the split is agreed which is damaging to Mays position as they wanted to try and use trade to soften the blow of Brexit.
The EUs also refusing to negotiate the status of Brits in the EU and Europeans in Britain from its current point and is instead starting from the position that British people will be treated in the same way as Americans/Canadians.
May has also said that they are completely withdrawing from the single market, customs union and the European Court of Justice.
Now we've seen the how the negotiations starting what do we think its going to end up with?
if they demand that settlement then we demand a share of our assets in the EU.
We can do trade deals with whoever we want at any time now, there is nothing legally stopping us once article 50 is triggered its just a 'gentlemans' agreement.
Considering there are more EU citizens in the UK than vice versa that will be resolved quickly.
Leaving the single market and customs union is the right and only way to go, so all in all we will come out of it well "
the sooner the better can't wait to wave bye bye to the faceless wonders of Brussels .they can stick any bill for money right where the sun don't shine .all I'd give em is a two finger job and even then I'm not sure they are worth even that |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"Interesting points raised here.
The UK hold ALL the cards as only they can trigger A50. So until then we have limbo land and some of our Experts here in the forums should be applying for jobs as negotiators!
Once we leave the EU yes Brits living in Europe will be in exactly the same situation as Americans or Canadians - and all that entails. It has massive impact on Permanent residents as it depends on what is agreed. Had the UK been statesman like and agreed the rights of EU citizens then the EU may have done the same for expats. We are now just bargaining chips. Both sides have not come out well from this stance - particularly the UK - 40% of EU doctors looking to leave NHS with 23% undecided - that will impact.
Like the UK there are a lot of "economic migrants " here in the EU. Often 1.3m is quoted as being here, but those are the registered ones - more like 3m if you added the others in.
Until it's all been agreed - nobody knows what will happen.
"
As it's been pointed out several times, Mrs May has said that she will allow EU citizens to remain here IF the EU will reciprocate. However, the EU stand by their Article 50 position and will not give such an undertaking.
Mrs May has categorically stated that she will not use people and their rights as bargaining tools. |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"the sooner the better can't wait to wave bye bye to the faceless wonders of Brussels .they can stick any bill for money right where the sun don't shine .all I'd give em is a two finger job and even then I'm not sure they are worth even that"
"faceless wonders"? There are many reasons to dislike the EU, granted... but this one does perplex me. Most people couldn't name a single UK civil servant, and the only MPs besides their own (if they know that) that they could name would be ones that have been involved in scandals, or celebrity come jungle with me. I know I can't. Can you name a single UK MEP besides Farage? I can't. Does that mean they are faceless?
But hey... at least we are "taking back control" and handing it to our own un-elected PM, un-elected 2nd chamber, and un-elected civil servants.
-Matt |
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"the sooner the better can't wait to wave bye bye to the faceless wonders of Brussels .they can stick any bill for money right where the sun don't shine .all I'd give em is a two finger job and even then I'm not sure they are worth even that
"faceless wonders"? There are many reasons to dislike the EU, granted... but this one does perplex me. Most people couldn't name a single UK civil servant, and the only MPs besides their own (if they know that) that they could name would be ones that have been involved in scandals, or celebrity come jungle with me. I know I can't. Can you name a single UK MEP besides Farage? I can't. Does that mean they are faceless?
But hey... at least we are "taking back control" and handing it to our own un-elected PM, un-elected 2nd chamber, and un-elected civil servants.
-Matt"
never wanted to join the common market in the first place .all the lies labour spun us back then unforgivable .it was supposed to be all about trade between the nine members back then .we were told they had no intention of trying to be some kind of superstate .they simply got too big for their boots .we thrived before joining and we can again .people need to stop whinging on..stop having a go at May she may be unelected PM.its Weasel Cameron spitting his dummy out after cow towing to the European masters that caused that |
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No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum |
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By *anesjhCouple
over a year ago
LONDON. |
"As we get closer to the negotiations and Article 50 being triggered we're starting to see the shape negotiations are taking.
The EU are demanding a €49billion settlement from the UK, May is obviously looking to negotiate that down by as much as €20billion, still leaving a €29 billion bill to be paid. Interestingly France and Germany were pushing for a figure of over €70 billion but they compromised.
The EU have decided that trade negotiations will not take place until after the split is agreed which is damaging to Mays position as they wanted to try and use trade to soften the blow of Brexit.
The EUs also refusing to negotiate the status of Brits in the EU and Europeans in Britain from its current point and is instead starting from the position that British people will be treated in the same way as Americans/Canadians.
May has also said that they are completely withdrawing from the single market, customs union and the European Court of Justice.
Now we've seen the how the negotiations starting what do we think its going to end up with?
if they demand that settlement then we demand a share of our assets in the EU.
We can do trade deals with whoever we want at any time now, there is nothing legally stopping us once article 50 is triggered its just a 'gentlemans' agreement.
Considering there are more EU citizens in the UK than vice versa that will be resolved quickly.
Leaving the single market and customs union is the right and only way to go, so all in all we will come out of it well the sooner the better can't wait to wave bye bye to the faceless wonders of Brussels .they can stick any bill for money right where the sun don't shine .all I'd give em is a two finger job and even then I'm not sure they are worth even that"
..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum "
probably because the vote to join the EU was "overwhelming " as opposed to "marginal" this time. The vote in the 70's was based on us being the sick man of Europe, 3 day week, power cuts, strikes etc etc.
The big "flaw" with this referendum is that it didn't have the checks and balances in place. It shouldn't have been advisory. It should have been compulsory for all eligible voters to vote. 17m leave 16m remain and 13m didn't vote! Also what about 17 yr olds? It's hard to please everyone but like most government sponsored events (by all parties) we always seem to get it wrong. Let's hope for everyone's same they get this negotiation right! |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"the sooner the better can't wait to wave bye bye to the faceless wonders of Brussels .they can stick any bill for money right where the sun don't shine .all I'd give em is a two finger job and even then I'm not sure they are worth even that
"faceless wonders"? There are many reasons to dislike the EU, granted... but this one does perplex me. Most people couldn't name a single UK civil servant, and the only MPs besides their own (if they know that) that they could name would be ones that have been involved in scandals, or celebrity come jungle with me. I know I can't. Can you name a single UK MEP besides Farage? I can't. Does that mean they are faceless?
But hey... at least we are "taking back control" and handing it to our own un-elected PM, un-elected 2nd chamber, and un-elected civil servants.
-Mattnever wanted to join the common market in the first place .all the lies labour spun us back then unforgivable .it was supposed to be all about trade between the nine members back then .we were told they had no intention of trying to be some kind of superstate .they simply got too big for their boots .we thrived before joining and we can again .people need to stop whinging on..stop having a go at May she may be unelected PM.its Weasel Cameron spitting his dummy out after cow towing to the European masters that caused that"
But we were not thriving before we joined, were we? Remember the "sick man of europe" description? I'm sure you will say the massive economic growth since we joined is a co-incidence.
Oh, and I have no love for Cameron either... a weasel is very apt ('slimy lizard he is referred to in our house).
And again, many reasons to not like the EU... but 'straight cucumbers' is not one of them, as it is a load of bollocks you have believed from the Daily Mail and their ilk. Just like the bananas. The EU don't mandate straight cucumbers. There is a grading system in place for their straightness *asked for by the cucumber industry themselves* in order to be able to ascertain the quality and packing of the cucumbers.
By all means, have a go at the EU... there are some bits of it that stink. But please do so with correct information otherwise you just come across as a ranting, tabloid-reading fool.
-Matt |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"the sooner the better can't wait to wave bye bye to the faceless wonders of Brussels .they can stick any bill for money right where the sun don't shine .all I'd give em is a two finger job and even then I'm not sure they are worth even that
"faceless wonders"? There are many reasons to dislike the EU, granted... but this one does perplex me. Most people couldn't name a single UK civil servant, and the only MPs besides their own (if they know that) that they could name would be ones that have been involved in scandals, or celebrity come jungle with me. I know I can't. Can you name a single UK MEP besides Farage? I can't. Does that mean they are faceless?
But hey... at least we are "taking back control" and handing it to our own un-elected PM, un-elected 2nd chamber, and un-elected civil servants.
-Mattnever wanted to join the common market in the first place .all the lies labour spun us back then unforgivable .it was supposed to be all about trade between the nine members back then .we were told they had no intention of trying to be some kind of superstate .they simply got too big for their boots .we thrived before joining and we can again .people need to stop whinging on..stop having a go at May she may be unelected PM.its Weasel Cameron spitting his dummy out after cow towing to the European masters that caused that
But we were not thriving before we joined, were we? Remember the "sick man of europe" description? I'm sure you will say the massive economic growth since we joined is a co-incidence.
Oh, and I have no love for Cameron either... a weasel is very apt ('slimy lizard he is referred to in our house).
And again, many reasons to not like the EU... but 'straight cucumbers' is not one of them, as it is a load of bollocks you have believed from the Daily Mail and their ilk. Just like the bananas. The EU don't mandate straight cucumbers. There is a grading system in place for their straightness *asked for by the cucumber industry themselves* in order to be able to ascertain the quality and packing of the cucumbers.
By all means, have a go at the EU... there are some bits of it that stink. But please do so with correct information otherwise you just come across as a ranting, tabloid-reading fool.
-Matt"
Why do people not understand that that sick man of Europe tag is a load of bollocks? It was only the unions causing that and trying to fuck the country up. We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Why do people not understand that that sick man of Europe tag is a load of bollocks? It was only the unions causing that and trying to fuck the country up."
So nothing to do with the 1973 oil crisis and the fall of the Bretton Woods system of monetary management after the Nixon Shock eh?
The oil crisis was largely to blame for the downturn in the United Kingdom just as it was for the similar crisis in the States, although the real crisis came in the form of the Three-Day Week which was the result of fears over power shortages as a miner's strike was announced in December 1973
"
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did "
Ohh sorry, yeah I got my facts wrong, it was all down to being in the European Communities that brought 1973 recession 
It was so bad being a member of the European Communities then The Common Market that the referendum was called to guage public support to continue being a member there was a landslide victory to Remain
Yes 17,378,581 67.23%
No 8,470,073 32.77%
Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79%
Invalid votes 54,540 0.59%
Total votes 25,903,194 100.00%
Registered voters and turnout 40,456,877 64.03%
But yeah, all the EU's fault that one eh ? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum "
so if the euro is monopoly money yet it has more value thanot the pound what does that say about the pound?
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum "
If for one second you think that somehow your life as a TV/TS is going to be improved under an ideologically driven Conservative Govt you are very mistaken. The EU is the very essence of liberalism in the way that it actively promotes freedoms for its citizens. Life under a Tory Govt whose leader has already admitted that her decisions are "faith" lead and stem from her religious upbringing is hardly conducive to anyone who lives a non mainstream life. It surely has not escaped your attention that the country is very much moving to the right in political terms and it is no secret that right wing politics is illiberal and minorities get even more marginalised the further right the political leanings of a country go. |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum
If for one second you think that somehow your life as a TV/TS is going to be improved under an ideologically driven Conservative Govt you are very mistaken. The EU is the very essence of liberalism in the way that it actively promotes freedoms for its citizens. Life under a Tory Govt whose leader has already admitted that her decisions are "faith" lead and stem from her religious upbringing is hardly conducive to anyone who lives a non mainstream life. It surely has not escaped your attention that the country is very much moving to the right in political terms and it is no secret that right wing politics is illiberal and minorities get even more marginalised the further right the political leanings of a country go."
Maybe you'd like to add to that statement by telling us which goverment brought in.the Same-Sex Marriage Act? |
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At the end of the day, whatever deal we end up with will be after negotiations. No one can summise or guess what that will be.
And it will have to be agreed by 27 remaining nations and ourselfs. All the so called promises made by those in the leave camp where just that, so called promises or assumptions. Not one of them was in a position to say it would 100% happen.
Sadly a large percentage of the population were taken in by it, and believed everything they were fed.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum
If for one second you think that somehow your life as a TV/TS is going to be improved under an ideologically driven Conservative Govt you are very mistaken. The EU is the very essence of liberalism in the way that it actively promotes freedoms for its citizens. Life under a Tory Govt whose leader has already admitted that her decisions are "faith" lead and stem from her religious upbringing is hardly conducive to anyone who lives a non mainstream life. It surely has not escaped your attention that the country is very much moving to the right in political terms and it is no secret that right wing politics is illiberal and minorities get even more marginalised the further right the political leanings of a country go.
Maybe you'd like to add to that statement by telling us which goverment brought in.the Same-Sex Marriage Act?"
So what??
A previous Labour govt reclassified cann**is only to retract some years later under pressure from MP's who were afraid of losing their jobs because of populist newspapers who disagreed with the facts surroundinding the reclassification.
The further right this govt goes, the more intolerance there will be to LGBT rights and as is already being seen, more people become emboldened to cry out about other minorities (currently immigrants) but next on the list could easily be religous minorities, Swingers, recreational drug users, etc etc
It is a fact that we should have learned from history that in times of complacency, some people feel the need for order more than the need for democracy. |
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"No more stupidity about cucumbers being the wrong shape .what was that all about .which numpty thought that one up .the euro a joke currency nearly as good as monopoly money ..this country needs to put itself right again .time to stop nit picking and accept it .WE ARE OUT.nobody went on like this when we had the first common market referendum
If for one second you think that somehow your life as a TV/TS is going to be improved under an ideologically driven Conservative Govt you are very mistaken. The EU is the very essence of liberalism in the way that it actively promotes freedoms for its citizens. Life under a Tory Govt whose leader has already admitted that her decisions are "faith" lead and stem from her religious upbringing is hardly conducive to anyone who lives a non mainstream life. It surely has not escaped your attention that the country is very much moving to the right in political terms and it is no secret that right wing politics is illiberal and minorities get even more marginalised the further right the political leanings of a country go.
Maybe you'd like to add to that statement by telling us which goverment brought in.the Same-Sex Marriage Act?"
Have you noticed that the PM who pushed that through (against the wishes of a lot of his party) is no longer the PM?
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Why do people not understand that that sick man of Europe tag is a load of bollocks? It was only the unions causing that and trying to fuck the country up.
So nothing to do with the 1973 oil crisis and the fall of the Bretton Woods system of monetary management after the Nixon Shock eh?
The oil crisis was largely to blame for the downturn in the United Kingdom just as it was for the similar crisis in the States, although the real crisis came in the form of the Three-Day Week which was the result of fears over power shortages as a miner's strike was announced in December 1973
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
Ohh sorry, yeah I got my facts wrong, it was all down to being in the European Communities that brought 1973 recession
It was so bad being a member of the European Communities then The Common Market that the referendum was called to guage public support to continue being a member there was a landslide victory to Remain
Yes 17,378,581 67.23%
No 8,470,073 32.77%
Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79%
Invalid votes 54,540 0.59%
Total votes 25,903,194 100.00%
Registered voters and turnout 40,456,877 64.03%
But yeah, all the EU's fault that one eh ?"
I was talking about the recessions at the end of the 70's and early 80's after we had joined
Maybe you are too young to realise or remember what it was like trying to get a job then. I am not saying it was all the common markets fault, the EU didn't exist then by the way, but it didn't help any |
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"Interesting points raised here.
The UK hold ALL the cards as only they can trigger A50. So until then we have limbo land and some of our Experts here in the forums should be applying for jobs as negotiators!
Once we leave the EU yes Brits living in Europe will be in exactly the same situation as Americans or Canadians - and all that entails. It has massive impact on Permanent residents as it depends on what is agreed. Had the UK been statesman like and agreed the rights of EU citizens then the EU may have done the same for expats. We are now just bargaining chips. Both sides have not come out well from this stance - particularly the UK - 40% of EU doctors looking to leave NHS with 23% undecided - that will impact.
Like the UK there are a lot of "economic migrants " here in the EU. Often 1.3m is quoted as being here, but those are the registered ones - more like 3m if you added the others in.
Until it's all been agreed - nobody knows what will happen.
As it's been pointed out several times, Mrs May has said that she will allow EU citizens to remain here IF the EU will reciprocate. However, the EU stand by their Article 50 position and will not give such an undertaking.
Mrs May has categorically stated that she will not use people and their rights as bargaining tools."
Absolutely bang on, the whole issue of EU citizens staying in the UK and UK citizens staying in the EU could have been wrapped up and settled long ago now. Teresa May offered to let EU citizens stay here as long as a reciprocal deal was given for Brits in the EU. The EU refused and said we won't agree to anything until you trigger article 50. It's the EU who are using European citizens as bargaining chips. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
"
Right, we joined the European Communities "also known as The Common Market" 1st January 1973, there was no recession until the end of 1973 until 1975 brought about by the Oil crisis etc
Nothing to do with joining the European Communities like you tried to suggest.
"
But yeah, all the EU's fault that one eh ?
I was talking about the recessions at the end of the 70's and early 80's after we had joined
"
No, you clearly said
"
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did "
The recession "when we did join" bit not 7 years later like your now changing tune too.....
"
The early 1980s recession describes the severe global economic recession affecting much of the developed world in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
"
Bad European Communities - Common Market - EU 
"
I am not saying it was all the common markets fault, the EU didn't exist then by the way, but it didn't help any"
Sarcasm dosen't come across online too well with my "EU" bit, anything in the world that goes wrong you basically blame on Europeans, European Communities, Common market, EU etc etc etc etc
I know like many you don't like the EU, hate it with a passion until it burns you but please don't try to rewrite history to enable you to blame the EU for everything bad that's happened throughout history.
Like so many assumed "EU rules - regs" that the EU haters believe with blind conviction the EU jack boot has imposed on us, most of it is actually a load of bullshit whipped up by the gutter press and people have taken it hook line and sinker. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
Right, we joined the European Communities "also known as The Common Market" 1st January 1973, there was no recession until the end of 1973 until 1975 brought about by the Oil crisis etc
Nothing to do with joining the European Communities like you tried to suggest.
But yeah, all the EU's fault that one eh ?
I was talking about the recessions at the end of the 70's and early 80's after we had joined
No, you clearly said
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
The recession "when we did join" bit not 7 years later like your now changing tune too.....
The early 1980s recession describes the severe global economic recession affecting much of the developed world in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Bad European Communities - Common Market - EU
I am not saying it was all the common markets fault, the EU didn't exist then by the way, but it didn't help any
Sarcasm dosen't come across online too well with my "EU" bit, anything in the world that goes wrong you basically blame on Europeans, European Communities, Common market, EU etc etc etc etc
I know like many you don't like the EU, hate it with a passion until it burns you but please don't try to rewrite history to enable you to blame the EU for everything bad that's happened throughout history.
Like so many assumed "EU rules - regs" that the EU haters believe with blind conviction the EU jack boot has imposed on us, most of it is actually a load of bullshit whipped up by the gutter press and people have taken it hook line and sinker."
I haven't changed my tune at all, when/after is no different. I don't hate anything enough that it burns with a passion at all. I blame nothing on Europeans, I am one. And you have fallen for the bullshit that the EU is in some way good for the UK/Europe |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
There is nothing to negotiate really, uk have to pay the £21billion they owe and the other loan for 7 years, they are not a member of the eu club anymore, so no cherry picking. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
Right, we joined the European Communities "also known as The Common Market" 1st January 1973, there was no recession until the end of 1973 until 1975 brought about by the Oil crisis etc
Nothing to do with joining the European Communities like you tried to suggest.
But yeah, all the EU's fault that one eh ?
I was talking about the recessions at the end of the 70's and early 80's after we had joined
No, you clearly said
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
The recession "when we did join" bit not 7 years later like your now changing tune too.....
The early 1980s recession describes the severe global economic recession affecting much of the developed world in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Bad European Communities - Common Market - EU
I am not saying it was all the common markets fault, the EU didn't exist then by the way, but it didn't help any
Sarcasm dosen't come across online too well with my "EU" bit, anything in the world that goes wrong you basically blame on Europeans, European Communities, Common market, EU etc etc etc etc
I know like many you don't like the EU, hate it with a passion until it burns you but please don't try to rewrite history to enable you to blame the EU for everything bad that's happened throughout history.
Like so many assumed "EU rules - regs" that the EU haters believe with blind conviction the EU jack boot has imposed on us, most of it is actually a load of bullshit whipped up by the gutter press and people have taken it hook line and sinker.
I haven't changed my tune at all, when/after is no different. I don't hate anything enough that it burns with a passion at all. I blame nothing on Europeans, I am one. And you have fallen for the bullshit that the EU is in some way good for the UK/Europe"
The thing is, you make up "alternative facts" for your anti EU stance instead of actually basing your opinions on real facts.
Like many on here who throw out a quib about the EU made us do this or the EU made us do that, most of the time it either wasn't the EU forcing us because the UK agreed to it or it came about from some entirely different source or a EU directive improved something that we wouldn't have had without them.
Like banana's & cucumbers had to be straight etc for starters that was all over the press blaming the EU or how dare the EU force manufacturers to make appliances more energy efficient.
Instead of actually forming well thought out informed factually correct reasons why we're so badly done by through being in the EU you dismiss everything EU and none EU related as bad for the UK because of the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I've not fallen for any "EU bullshit" either.
I don't think I've ever read anything from a EU "propaganda" website or any EU literature nor government literature.
There's thousands of independent fact based websites out there to give you a true unbiased opinion, not just the Daily Mail webby you know |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've not fallen for any "EU bullshit" either.
I don't think I've ever read anything from a EU "propaganda" website or any EU literature nor government literature.
There's thousands of independent fact based websites out there to give you a true unbiased opinion, not just the Daily Mail webby you know "
a typically ignorant assumption. I don't think I've ever read the Daily Mail. But to know that you are wrong about the EU all you have to do is look at the people you're aligned with and who are so vocal in their support of it. You have been conned. And the biggest crime/con against the people of Europe was the Euro. Followed by exploitation of cheap labour. In a few years time you will realise how bad things were and be grateful that we left the EU when we did |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've not fallen for any "EU bullshit" either.
I don't think I've ever read anything from a EU "propaganda" website or any EU literature nor government literature.
There's thousands of independent fact based websites out there to give you a true unbiased opinion, not just the Daily Mail webby you know
a typically ignorant assumption. I don't think I've ever read the Daily Mail. But to know that you are wrong about the EU all you have to do is look at the people you're aligned with and who are so vocal in their support of it. You have been conned. And the biggest crime/con against the people of Europe was the Euro. Followed by exploitation of cheap labour. In a few years time you will realise how bad things were and be grateful that we left the EU when we did"
another typically ignorant assumption that I meant you ? I never mentioned you 
People I'm alligned with, who are they then and what about them ?
What's so bad about how we are at the moment? we're the fastest growing economy in western Europe with us being a member of the all Country killing EU.
I'd love to know your view on these |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've not fallen for any "EU bullshit" either.
I don't think I've ever read anything from a EU "propaganda" website or any EU literature nor government literature.
There's thousands of independent fact based websites out there to give you a true unbiased opinion, not just the Daily Mail webby you know
a typically ignorant assumption. I don't think I've ever read the Daily Mail. But to know that you are wrong about the EU all you have to do is look at the people you're aligned with and who are so vocal in their support of it. You have been conned. And the biggest crime/con against the people of Europe was the Euro. Followed by exploitation of cheap labour. In a few years time you will realise how bad things were and be grateful that we left the EU when we did
another typically ignorant assumption that I meant you ? I never mentioned you
People I'm alligned with, who are they then and what about them ?
What's so bad about how we are at the moment? we're the fastest growing economy in western Europe with us being a member of the all Country killing EU.
I'd love to know your view on these "
Maybe you missed the likes of Blair and Mandelson on tv last week, don't think I need to say anythimg more about them and the multinationals who thrive on cheap labour. Fastest growing economy sure, it doesn't mean much though when the people are getting poorer. The average wage in the UK in 2016 was lower than it was in 2004. If you don't like the Daily Mail, how about this piece from Felicity Lawrence writing in the Guardian - 'the exploitation of migrants has become our way of life - it promotes a business model that depends on a constant churn of workers to carry out jobs that are underpaid and insecure at best and all too often dirty, dangerous and degrading. It requires not just immigration but immigration without end, since only newly arrived and desperate and vulnerable will tolerate the conditions that have been created'.
It may take a while but there is a better way to grow our economy and that is outside the EU and it will be worth it in the long run. And don't even get me started on the damage the EU/EURO has done to the southern European states, which doesn't come from propoganda but from personal experience through family and friends |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've not fallen for any "EU bullshit" either.
I don't think I've ever read anything from a EU "propaganda" website or any EU literature nor government literature.
There's thousands of independent fact based websites out there to give you a true unbiased opinion, not just the Daily Mail webby you know
a typically ignorant assumption. I don't think I've ever read the Daily Mail. But to know that you are wrong about the EU all you have to do is look at the people you're aligned with and who are so vocal in their support of it. You have been conned. And the biggest crime/con against the people of Europe was the Euro. Followed by exploitation of cheap labour. In a few years time you will realise how bad things were and be grateful that we left the EU when we did
another typically ignorant assumption that I meant you ? I never mentioned you
People I'm alligned with, who are they then and what about them ?
What's so bad about how we are at the moment? we're the fastest growing economy in western Europe with us being a member of the all Country killing EU.
I'd love to know your view on these
Maybe you missed the likes of Blair and Mandelson on tv last week, don't think I need to say anythimg more about them and the multinationals who thrive on cheap labour. Fastest growing economy sure, it doesn't mean much though when the people are getting poorer. The average wage in the UK in 2016 was lower than it was in 2004. If you don't like the Daily Mail, how about this piece from Felicity Lawrence writing in the Guardian - 'the exploitation of migrants has become our way of life - it promotes a business model that depends on a constant churn of workers to carry out jobs that are underpaid and insecure at best and all too often dirty, dangerous and degrading. It requires not just immigration but immigration without end, since only newly arrived and desperate and vulnerable will tolerate the conditions that have been created'.
It may take a while but there is a better way to grow our economy and that is outside the EU and it will be worth it in the long run. And don't even get me started on the damage the EU/EURO has done to the southern European states, which doesn't come from propoganda but from personal experience through family and friends"
So because Blair and his mate voted the same as me I should find this shameful or class myself as alligned with them ?
Donald the racist sexist obnoxious Trump and Farage we're for Leave too.
Talking of being taken in by lies, 2 of the most iconic visual advertising propaganda pieces were from the Leave campaign.
The £350 million per week bullshit bus
&
The "Breaking Point" poster campaign that Farage proudly stood in front of for his photo opportunity, which incase you forgot is a picture of hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of "brown skinned" people stood around 10 abreast and hundreds deep, a long human snake of people winding out of view with the slogan
BREAKING POINT
The EU has failed us all
Claim back our borders
Thing is, the thousands of people in the picture that Leave was suggesting are queing up to get into the UK were in fact Syrian refugees fleeing their war torn homeland.
You alligned with that then ?
Low paid jobs, yes i know its a problem but the issue is and always has been, not enough UK nationals will do the work for that money, benefits pay better.
This problem could be alleviated by increasing the minimum wage or potentially reducing benefits for the work able claimants but if the government isn't willing to do that then all that will happen is EU nationals will be granted immigration to work and do the jobs their doing already and nothing much will change.
Yes i agree the Euro has been terrible for many and I'm glad we have had no part in it.
I think one of two things will happen.
1. We will retain access to the single market with freedom of movement irrespective of what politicians say because only a fool believes a word from them.
2. We won't have freedom of movement but have an open cheque style immigration book pre-stamped approved for any EU national wanting to come here to work while retaining the "controling our borders" slogan intact.
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
A big change in the EU is likely before we actually leave.
Netherlands parliament are to debate having a referendum to leave the Euro. This is being done in an effort to avoid a "Nexit" referendum....but will it work....or just make it more inevitable?
Denmark too could soon be heading for a "Dexit" referendum.
Marine LePenn is heading the polls in France....if she wins then a "Nexit" referendum is certain.
The house of cards is falling down?
By the time the two years post article 50 comes around....there may not be an EU to leave? |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"
The "Breaking Point" poster campaign that Farage proudly stood in front of for his photo opportunity, which incase you forgot is a picture of hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of "brown skinned" people stood around 10 abreast and hundreds deep, a long human snake of people winding out of view with the slogan
BREAKING POINT
The EU has failed us all
Claim back our borders
Thing is, the thousands of people in the picture that Leave was suggesting are queing up to get into the UK were in fact Syrian refugees fleeing their war torn homeland.
You alligned with that then ?
"
The trouble with that is the picture was made up of almost entirely young males of fighting age, why werent they fighting for their country and where were all the old, the women and the kids? Can you disagree with that fact ?
I dont think many would refuse entry of genuine refugees its the economic migrants that most dont want |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The "Breaking Point" poster campaign that Farage proudly stood in front of for his photo opportunity, which incase you forgot is a picture of hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of "brown skinned" people stood around 10 abreast and hundreds deep, a long human snake of people winding out of view with the slogan
BREAKING POINT
The EU has failed us all
Claim back our borders
Thing is, the thousands of people in the picture that Leave was suggesting are queing up to get into the UK were in fact Syrian refugees fleeing their war torn homeland.
You alligned with that then ?
The trouble with that is the picture was made up of almost entirely young males of fighting age, why werent they fighting for their country and where were all the old, the women and the kids? Can you disagree with that fact ?
"
Totally irrelevant on this thread, that's a totally different discussion.
Farage used the misery of thousands of war torn Middle Eastern civilians for his own political gain by implying they were queuing up to steal our jobs and not fleeing the death & destruction that's ripping their homeland to pieces. |
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"
The "Breaking Point" poster campaign that Farage proudly stood in front of for his photo opportunity, which incase you forgot is a picture of hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of "brown skinned" people stood around 10 abreast and hundreds deep, a long human snake of people winding out of view with the slogan
BREAKING POINT
The EU has failed us all
Claim back our borders
"
The 'Breaking point' poster was 100% correct, the EU has failed all of Europe not just the UK. The poster highlighted the complete failure of the EU to deal with the migrant crisis. Only a fool would call the EU's handling of the migrant crisis a success. The reality of the situation all over Europe says the EU's approach to the migrant crisis was nothing more than an unmitigated disaster. The EU's failure on this saw many individual European countries taking matters into their own hands and put into force their own border controls, erecting barbed wire fences and putting armed guards at border crossing check points. Individual member countries felt the need to do this because of the EU's failure to act and the EU's sheer incompetence on the matters at hand surrounding the migrant crisis. Even the silly Frau Angela Merkel now realises what a catastrophic mistake she made when she said 'all welcome here' and she has had to do a number of humiliating u-turns on her initial misguided approach.
And if we're going to talk about offensive posters by far the most offensive and racist poster put out during the EU referendum was the 'operation black vote' (see saw) poster designed by saatchi and saatchi for the Remain campaign. Even figures on the Remain side condemned it such as London Mayor Sadiq Khan who called it divisive and reinforced stereo types. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The "Breaking Point" poster campaign that Farage proudly stood in front of for his photo opportunity, which incase you forgot is a picture of hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of "brown skinned" people stood around 10 abreast and hundreds deep, a long human snake of people winding out of view with the slogan
BREAKING POINT
The EU has failed us all
Claim back our borders
The 'Breaking point' poster was 100% correct, the EU has failed all of Europe not just the UK. The poster highlighted the complete failure of the EU to deal with the migrant crisis. Only a fool would call the EU's handling of the migrant crisis a success. The reality of the situation all over Europe says the EU's approach to the migrant crisis was nothing more than an unmitigated disaster. The EU's failure on this saw many individual European countries taking matters into their own hands and put into force their own border controls, erecting barbed wire fences and putting armed guards at border crossing check points. Individual member countries felt the need to do this because of the EU's failure to act and the EU's sheer incompetence on the matters at hand surrounding the migrant crisis. Even the silly Frau Angela Merkel now realises what a catastrophic mistake she made when she said 'all welcome here' and she has had to do a number of humiliating u-turns on her initial misguided approach.
And if we're going to talk about offensive posters by far the most offensive and racist poster put out during the EU referendum was the 'operation black vote' (see saw) poster designed by saatchi and saatchi for the Remain campaign. Even figures on the Remain side condemned it such as London Mayor Sadiq Khan who called it divisive and reinforced stereo types. "
Using a picture of middle eastern wartorn refugees implying their all coming here is bang wrong.
Just like the
TURKEY "population 76 million" IS JOINING THE EU poster for leave showing footprints going through a UK door....
Another massive lie and yet another attempt at creating divisions.
Turkeys got no chance of joining the EU.
The more i actually look into the campaign for leave, the most racist it becomes.
I kept out from all the campaign bullshit in the run up to the referendum on both sides because i knew both sides would be basically lying, but i never realised the leave campaign has been so racist and xenophobic. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've not fallen for any "EU bullshit" either.
I don't think I've ever read anything from a EU "propaganda" website or any EU literature nor government literature.
There's thousands of independent fact based websites out there to give you a true unbiased opinion, not just the Daily Mail webby you know
a typically ignorant assumption. I don't think I've ever read the Daily Mail. But to know that you are wrong about the EU all you have to do is look at the people you're aligned with and who are so vocal in their support of it. You have been conned. And the biggest crime/con against the people of Europe was the Euro. Followed by exploitation of cheap labour. In a few years time you will realise how bad things were and be grateful that we left the EU when we did
another typically ignorant assumption that I meant you ? I never mentioned you
People I'm alligned with, who are they then and what about them ?
What's so bad about how we are at the moment? we're the fastest growing economy in western Europe with us being a member of the all Country killing EU.
I'd love to know your view on these
Maybe you missed the likes of Blair and Mandelson on tv last week, don't think I need to say anythimg more about them and the multinationals who thrive on cheap labour. Fastest growing economy sure, it doesn't mean much though when the people are getting poorer. The average wage in the UK in 2016 was lower than it was in 2004. If you don't like the Daily Mail, how about this piece from Felicity Lawrence writing in the Guardian - 'the exploitation of migrants has become our way of life - it promotes a business model that depends on a constant churn of workers to carry out jobs that are underpaid and insecure at best and all too often dirty, dangerous and degrading. It requires not just immigration but immigration without end, since only newly arrived and desperate and vulnerable will tolerate the conditions that have been created'.
It may take a while but there is a better way to grow our economy and that is outside the EU and it will be worth it in the long run. And don't even get me started on the damage the EU/EURO has done to the southern European states, which doesn't come from propoganda but from personal experience through family and friends
So because Blair and his mate voted the same as me I should find this shameful or class myself as alligned with them ?
Donald the racist sexist obnoxious Trump and Farage we're for Leave too.
Talking of being taken in by lies, 2 of the most iconic visual advertising propaganda pieces were from the Leave campaign.
The £350 million per week bullshit bus
&
The "Breaking Point" poster campaign that Farage proudly stood in front of for his photo opportunity, which incase you forgot is a picture of hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of "brown skinned" people stood around 10 abreast and hundreds deep, a long human snake of people winding out of view with the slogan
BREAKING POINT
The EU has failed us all
Claim back our borders
Thing is, the thousands of people in the picture that Leave was suggesting are queing up to get into the UK were in fact Syrian refugees fleeing their war torn homeland.
You alligned with that then ?
Low paid jobs, yes i know its a problem but the issue is and always has been, not enough UK nationals will do the work for that money, benefits pay better.
This problem could be alleviated by increasing the minimum wage or potentially reducing benefits for the work able claimants but if the government isn't willing to do that then all that will happen is EU nationals will be granted immigration to work and do the jobs their doing already and nothing much will change.
Yes i agree the Euro has been terrible for many and I'm glad we have had no part in it.
I think one of two things will happen.
1. We will retain access to the single market with freedom of movement irrespective of what politicians say because only a fool believes a word from them.
2. We won't have freedom of movement but have an open cheque style immigration book pre-stamped approved for any EU national wanting to come here to work while retaining the "controling our borders" slogan intact.
"
Bless |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve ! |
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"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !"
Why would it be anyone elses loss?
If you do no trade deals the price for all your imports increase which will dramatically increase the cost of living. Your exports become uncompetitive and businesses will leave or fold or lose sales resulting in more unemployment.
So no you probably wont starve but its baffling that you think you can do without imports and exports and you wont be worse off for it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Actually that's exactly what could happen.
We cannot feed ourselves on this island, we rely on imported food, and most of it comes from the EU."
Stop talking sense will you, the blind faith Brexiteers don't like it  |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Actually that's exactly what could happen.
We cannot feed ourselves on this island, we rely on imported food, and most of it comes from the EU."
Are you saying that they wont sell us food after brexit ? I thought us exporting stuff was going to be the problem not importing it |
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"Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Actually that's exactly what could happen.
We cannot feed ourselves on this island, we rely on imported food, and most of it comes from the EU.
Are you saying that they wont sell us food after brexit ? I thought us exporting stuff was going to be the problem not importing it "
If you dont agree a trade deal then exports would get tariffs as high as 50%.
For imports the UK would have a choice; whether to impose import tariffs or not. If they dont impose tariffs then they have zero leverage to negotiate lower export tariffs. If they do impose tariffs then imports will drop and cost of living increases hugely.
Tariffs dont mean any country or group of countries refuse to sell or buy anything from you but it can mean that no company or consumers can afford it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Actually that's exactly what could happen.
We cannot feed ourselves on this island, we rely on imported food, and most of it comes from the EU."
That is right, it will be a much poorer country. |
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"Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Actually that's exactly what could happen.
We cannot feed ourselves on this island, we rely on imported food, and most of it comes from the EU.
Are you saying that they wont sell us food after brexit ? I thought us exporting stuff was going to be the problem not importing it
If you dont agree a trade deal then exports would get tariffs as high as 50%.
For imports the UK would have a choice; whether to impose import tariffs or not. If they dont impose tariffs then they have zero leverage to negotiate lower export tariffs. If they do impose tariffs then imports will drop and cost of living increases hugely.
Tariffs dont mean any country or group of countries refuse to sell or buy anything from you but it can mean that no company or consumers can afford it."
Add a potential further drop of the £ and it might get really tight.
Although, most won't starve, only the poorer ones. |
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"Hmmmmm if we don't import ? I know we could produce things here and create jobs ?
No ! That's sensible  "
Except you dont have enough raw materials, capacity and expertise to produce every single thing the country needs. Thats why every country that has tried protectionism/self sufficiency has failed.
Not to mention that the cost of producing those goods in the UK would send prices skyrocketing along with inflation. |
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"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !"
do you mean turn our back on the agreements we have signed up to as a member?
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !"
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
On the subject of the OP thread, it seems that the UK has decided to take a hard negotiating stance.
It plays well to 52% of the population who are more natural Tory voters anyway. It also looks strong and decisive.
As a means of actually getting a good outcome with the EU which is based on a more subtle, consensus approach I'm less convinced of the tactic. Our hand is not weak, but it is not that strong either... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy."
who has a deal with the EU? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hmmmmm if we don't import ? I know we could produce things here and create jobs ?
No ! That's sensible
Except you dont have enough raw materials, capacity and expertise to produce every single thing the country needs. Thats why every country that has tried protectionism/self sufficiency has failed.
Not to mention that the cost of producing those goods in the UK would send prices skyrocketing along with inflation."
protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
who has a deal with the EU?"
Why don't you look back over the many threads where you have been told this and check? Alternatively just look on the EU website.
Then, why don't you see how many comprehensive trade deals other countries have?
Then why don't you contribute something with a useful comparison or point? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"Hmmmmm if we don't import ? I know we could produce things here and create jobs ?
No ! That's sensible
Except you dont have enough raw materials, capacity and expertise to produce every single thing the country needs. Thats why every country that has tried protectionism/self sufficiency has failed.
Not to mention that the cost of producing those goods in the UK would send prices skyrocketing along with inflation.
protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?"
When you are part of the second biggest economy in the world you can successfully protect parts of your economy because you can produce most things internally even if at a higher cost than trading more freely.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
who has a deal with the EU?"
Bless |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Hmmmmm if we don't import ? I know we could produce things here and create jobs ?
No ! That's sensible
Except you dont have enough raw materials, capacity and expertise to produce every single thing the country needs. Thats why every country that has tried protectionism/self sufficiency has failed.
Not to mention that the cost of producing those goods in the UK would send prices skyrocketing along with inflation.
protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?
When you are part of the second biggest economy in the world you can successfully protect parts of your economy because you can produce most things internally even if at a higher cost than trading more freely.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?"
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
who has a deal with the EU?
Why don't you look back over the many threads where you have been told this and check? Alternatively just look on the EU website.
Then, why don't you see how many comprehensive trade deals other countries have?
Then why don't you contribute something with a useful comparison or point?"
no need to look back, I knmw who the EU has deals with, and frankly the list is not very impressive is it? The truth is, a block of 28 countries struggle to do deals |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Hmmmmm if we don't import ? I know we could produce things here and create jobs ?
No ! That's sensible
Except you dont have enough raw materials, capacity and expertise to produce every single thing the country needs. Thats why every country that has tried protectionism/self sufficiency has failed.
Not to mention that the cost of producing those goods in the UK would send prices skyrocketing along with inflation.
protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?
When you are part of the second biggest economy in the world you can successfully protect parts of your economy because you can produce most things internally even if at a higher cost than trading more freely.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?"
Stagnant in what terms? Current growth in GDP is just under 2% which is approx the mean growth of the period since 2000. Exactly the same as the US.
-Matt |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
who has a deal with the EU?
Why don't you look back over the many threads where you have been told this and check? Alternatively just look on the EU website.
Then, why don't you see how many comprehensive trade deals other countries have?
Then why don't you contribute something with a useful comparison or point?
no need to look back, I knmw who the EU has deals with, and frankly the list is not very impressive is it? The truth is, a block of 28 countries struggle to do deals"
Yeah, but we are going to get a bold deal with New Zealand! Woohoo!
Even if you think that the trade deals the EU has are not very impressive, we still will have a lot to 'catch up' to make up the shortfall from whatever deal we do negotiate in the end with the EU. Because whatever the deal is, it is not going to be as good as we have now.
-Matt |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?"
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
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"Hmmmmm if we don't import ? I know we could produce things here and create jobs ?
No ! That's sensible
Except you dont have enough raw materials, capacity and expertise to produce every single thing the country needs. Thats why every country that has tried protectionism/self sufficiency has failed.
Not to mention that the cost of producing those goods in the UK would send prices skyrocketing along with inflation."
The UK is not and has never talked about being self sufficient though has it, we will continue to trade in exports and imports after Brexit but with a more global outlook on trade. Teresa May used the phrase 'global Britain' several times in her Brexit speech at Lancaster House. Percentage of UK trade with the EU has already been in decline for a number of years anyway and our trade outside of the EU has been growing. That trend will continue and we can benefit from that much better if we can make our own trade deals all around the world. |
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"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy."
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"The UK is not and has never talked about being self sufficient though has it, we will continue to trade in exports and imports after Brexit but with a more global outlook on trade. Teresa May used the phrase 'global Britain' several times in her Brexit speech at Lancaster House. Percentage of UK trade with the EU has already been in decline for a number of years anyway and our trade outside of the EU has been growing. That trend will continue and we can benefit from that much better if we can make our own trade deals all around the world. "
I agree that the UK will continue to trade. Of course it will.
I'm not sure why any political speech should be considered at all credible until it's delivered on. Why is May's more credible than anyone else's?
Is the EU currently equivalent to a domestic market in trade terms?
If it is why would you want a smaller domestic market in exchange for a foreign market?
The world economy is growing. Poorer countries have much more growth potential. Every exporting country's trade with the developing world is increasing. The relative percentage is irrelevant as they are all big numbers.
What trade with the rest of the world is being given up by being in the EU? Have you looked at the German economy? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours. "
yes I agree but just how big is the worlds 5th largest economy?...well some states in the USA have bigger economies than the UK..so anyone who think the UK can dictate trade deals to the UK China or the EU is highly deluded |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours. "
The step up is huge. USA 6 times bigger economy than ours. Remaining EU 4.5 times. China 3 times.
The point still stands. Will any country be keener to do, a deal with us or one of the other three?
Would any country do a deal on preferential terms with us than they would with one of those three?
Why would we not want to be one of those three from a trade perspective?
Remember your chum May's position. No deal is better than a bad deal. That would be valid for any country I assume. |
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"
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours.
The step up is huge. USA 6 times bigger economy than ours. Remaining EU 4.5 times. China 3 times.
The point still stands. Will any country be keener to do, a deal with us or one of the other three?
Would any country do a deal on preferential terms with us than they would with one of those three?
Why would we not want to be one of those three from a trade perspective?
Remember your chum May's position. No deal is better than a bad deal. That would be valid for any country I assume."
Several countries are already queueing up to do trade deals with the UK once we are out of the EU, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, some African countries, India, Brazil to name just a few from the top of my head and Donald Trump is putting UK at the front of the queue for a trade deal with the USA, your assumption no one wants to trade with Uk as a free and Independent country is just plain wrong. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
I guess this is it. Perhaps international trade is a far more complicated subject than it sounds.
Saying that "we can do deals" sounds pretty straightforward and to some extent we all want to believe that the UK is hugely important because we all live hear and are find of it. We overvalued what is close and important to us. That's natural, but others don't view us in the same way.
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours. "
This is a good site regarding UK trade
https://select-statistics.co.uk/blog/uks-major-trading-partners/ |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm still not convinced we need to make the running !
We're leaving if the eu want some ties with us let them come to us ! "
Fully agree on this.
The EU can shove any 'exit bill' up their pipe too...they've taken us for fools for too long. It's time to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and wave two fingers in their direction. No deal is definitely better than a bad deal, and seeing as they are hell-bent on making us leaving 'difficult' for us, their senior figures having already said so, we really need to show them that we won't be pushed around by their poisonous little club.
If they want to play fair then lets play fair...trade is trade...however the balance of trade works in our favour anyway, so they really need to be careful not to screw themselves up in the process of trying to screw us by altering the status quo. I'm all for tariff-free trading with the EU after Brexit...the only reason the EU want a so-called 'trade deal' is to skew things into their favour. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Why would it be anyone elses loss?
If you do no trade deals the price for all your imports increase which will dramatically increase the cost of living. Your exports become uncompetitive and businesses will leave or fold or lose sales resulting in more unemployment.
So no you probably wont starve but its baffling that you think you can do without imports and exports and you wont be worse off for it."
For every £400 we export to the EU....we import £700. Who would lose if no trade deal?
Who needs the trade deal the most!
You can answer in two ways.
(1) with logic and truth
(2) with bollocks and ignorance
Wonder which it will be? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I've said it before and Will say it again !
Lets just get out and let others come to us to make trade deals !
They will do !
And if they don't ?
Tough ! It's thier loss !
We won't Starve !
Why would it be anyone elses loss?
If you do no trade deals the price for all your imports increase which will dramatically increase the cost of living. Your exports become uncompetitive and businesses will leave or fold or lose sales resulting in more unemployment.
So no you probably wont starve but its baffling that you think you can do without imports and exports and you wont be worse off for it.
For every £400 we export to the EU....we import £700. Who would lose if no trade deal?
Who needs the trade deal the most!
You can answer in two ways.
(1) with logic and truth
(2) with bollocks and ignorance
Wonder which it will be?"
Who said there'd be no trade?
Those figures seem rather odd. According to the ONS in 2015 it was £220bn to £290bn which is quite some way off what you quoted.
However, 44% of UK exports go to the EU. 8-16% of EU exports go to us.
If they lose all of their exports to us they need to find 8-16% to be back to previously. We have to find 44%.
This is not just financial. This is politics.
I'll ask a question, again, that I'd never had an answer to.
Why would any EU state wish to give us the same trade terms as they have with each other without the same responsibilities?
I think I've replied with option (1). Over to you. I won't accuse you of anything though. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours.
The step up is huge. USA 6 times bigger economy than ours. Remaining EU 4.5 times. China 3 times.
The point still stands. Will any country be keener to do, a deal with us or one of the other three?
Would any country do a deal on preferential terms with us than they would with one of those three?
Why would we not want to be one of those three from a trade perspective?
Remember your chum May's position. No deal is better than a bad deal. That would be valid for any country I assume.
Several countries are already queueing up to do trade deals with the UK once we are out of the EU, Australia, New Zealand, South Korea, some African countries, India, Brazil to name just a few from the top of my head and Donald Trump is putting UK at the front of the queue for a trade deal with the USA, your assumption no one wants to trade with Uk as a free and Independent country is just plain wrong. "
You didn't address any of my points. Naturally.
However, nobody said that other countries wouldn't want to trade with us. What terms. Do you know?
A deal isn't a deal until it's done, so we go from 50 plus the biggest, most open trade deal on the planet with an additional 27 countries to an infinite number of deals that do not yet exist.
This is true right? An objective fact. |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"I'm still not convinced we need to make the running !
We're leaving if the eu want some ties with us let them come to us !
Fully agree on this.
The EU can shove any 'exit bill' up their pipe too...they've taken us for fools for too long. It's time to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and wave two fingers in their direction. No deal is definitely better than a bad deal, and seeing as they are hell-bent on making us leaving 'difficult' for us, their senior figures having already said so, we really need to show them that we won't be pushed around by their poisonous little club.
If they want to play fair then lets play fair...trade is trade...however the balance of trade works in our favour anyway, so they really need to be careful not to screw themselves up in the process of trying to screw us by altering the status quo. I'm all for tariff-free trading with the EU after Brexit...the only reason the EU want a so-called 'trade deal' is to skew things into their favour."
What are they doing that is "unfair"? We decided to play hard-ball, so that's what's happening. Unless we don't wish to honour our agreements. Then where do we stand? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I'm still not convinced we need to make the running !
We're leaving if the eu want some ties with us let them come to us !
Fully agree on this.
The EU can shove any 'exit bill' up their pipe too...they've taken us for fools for too long. It's time to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and wave two fingers in their direction. No deal is definitely better than a bad deal, and seeing as they are hell-bent on making us leaving 'difficult' for us, their senior figures having already said so, we really need to show them that we won't be pushed around by their poisonous little club.
If they want to play fair then lets play fair...trade is trade...however the balance of trade works in our favour anyway, so they really need to be careful not to screw themselves up in the process of trying to screw us by altering the status quo. I'm all for tariff-free trading with the EU after Brexit...the only reason the EU want a so-called 'trade deal' is to skew things into their favour."
this is madness the balance of trade does not work in the UK favour if no trade deal is struck the UK will have to find a new place for 40% of its exports overnight ...while the EU will only have to find a home for 16% of there's....last time I check 40 is more that twice as much as 16 |
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"
The reality is that this is all relative. We have been a big economy within a huge EU economy in global terms. The second largest on the planet. In the big leagues with the USA and China.
We won't be in the future. So, will any country want a deal with us as much as they did with the EU? Approximately 80% less if you compare the UK to the remaining EU economy.
The reality is the UK is the world's 5th largest economy. The Remainers logic seems to be as they continue to make this point that countries with bigger economies than others get the upper hand in trade deals so the USA and China will get the upper hand in trade deals with the UK. If you make that point though then you must concede that as the world's 5th largest economy the UK will get the upper hand in trade deals with all the countries with smaller economies than ours of which there are 190, and only 4 countries with bigger economies than ours. "
Well you'll have to negotiate with the EU as a bloc and combined we're bigger than the UK.
And theres also China, Japan and the US that are bigger as you mentioned.
That means 71.5% of your trade is with economies larger than yours that will have the advantage in trade negotiations. Thats a pretty weak position. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
For every £400 we export to the EU....we import £700. Who would lose if no trade deal?
Who needs the trade deal the most!
You can answer in two ways.
(1) with logic and truth
(2) with bollocks and ignorance
Wonder which it will be?"
So you opted to use option (2) in forming your question
Classic, absolute classic
Let me help you form that question for you using your option (1)
The official figures as stated by another forum member also using option (1) is a 70 billion difference in imports vs exports to the EU £220 Billion vs £290 Billion respectively.
That gives us a figure of we import 33% more than we export, not importing 75% more going by your option (2).
Also that difference of us importing 33% more from the EU is obviously split over 27 different countries too so for some EU member states the import vs export between them and us will be tiny and all it takes is one of them states to block any agreement between the EU & UK.
Please feel free to answer using any oprion from (1) to (83)
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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So the UK has far more to lose than either the EU as a whole or even worse for us the separate member states of which we need all 27 of them to agree a deal with us and their seperate regional parliaments. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
"
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh "
So Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states?
Because you want national sovereignty. You can't force countries to invest in the things that make them prosperous.
They can, at least, move to where the work is.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh
So Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states?
Because you want national sovereignty. You can't force countries to invest in the things that make them prosperous.
They can, at least, move to where the work is.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?"
did I say Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states? I said the EU doesn't work. Move to where the work is? Oh ye great, tear apart families and communities and further impoverish those countries. Brilliant solution. I don't know how Trumps plan will work, do you? |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh
So Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states?
Because you want national sovereignty. You can't force countries to invest in the things that make them prosperous.
They can, at least, move to where the work is.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
did I say Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states? I said the EU doesn't work. Move to where the work is? Oh ye great, tear apart families and communities and further impoverish those countries. Brilliant solution. I don't know how Trumps plan will work, do you? "
Your solution is what then? Split it all up and the devil take the hindmost?
Your reasons for Brexit have been so inconsistent that the only real conclusion is that you want to be out of the EU for its own sake. That's fine, but don't seek to justify it with nonsense.
You ask many questions and really struggle to answer it seems.
Remember this one a few posts up?
"protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?"
So you tell me about Trump. I assume that one will inform the other. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh
So Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states?
Because you want national sovereignty. You can't force countries to invest in the things that make them prosperous.
They can, at least, move to where the work is.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
did I say Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states? I said the EU doesn't work. Move to where the work is? Oh ye great, tear apart families and communities and further impoverish those countries. Brilliant solution. I don't know how Trumps plan will work, do you?
Your solution is what then? Split it all up and the devil take the hindmost?
Your reasons for Brexit have been so inconsistent that the only real conclusion is that you want to be out of the EU for its own sake. That's fine, but don't seek to justify it with nonsense.
You ask many questions and really struggle to answer it seems.
Remember this one a few posts up?
"protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?"
So you tell me about Trump. I assume that one will inform the other."
my reasons aren't inconsistent at all, they are just numerous. I don't know fully what Trumps plans are yet, do you? But as far as protectionism goes it has not worked for the EU. Do you think if Trump introduces it in America it will work? |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh
So Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states?
Because you want national sovereignty. You can't force countries to invest in the things that make them prosperous.
They can, at least, move to where the work is.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
did I say Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states? I said the EU doesn't work. Move to where the work is? Oh ye great, tear apart families and communities and further impoverish those countries. Brilliant solution. I don't know how Trumps plan will work, do you?
Your solution is what then? Split it all up and the devil take the hindmost?
Your reasons for Brexit have been so inconsistent that the only real conclusion is that you want to be out of the EU for its own sake. That's fine, but don't seek to justify it with nonsense.
You ask many questions and really struggle to answer it seems.
Remember this one a few posts up?
"protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?"
So you tell me about Trump. I assume that one will inform the other.
my reasons aren't inconsistent at all, they are just numerous. I don't know fully what Trumps plans are yet, do you? But as far as protectionism goes it has not worked for the EU. Do you think if Trump introduces it in America it will work?"
I guess one person's 'protectionism' is another persons 'trade deal'. The EU seeks to lower trade barriers between neighbouring countries in Europe. In lowering those barriers, it means that by default the barriers to others are (remain) higher.
The bit I don't understand still is how this great trade deal we are meant to be getting with Trump fits in with his 'America first' policy.
-Matt |
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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago
glasgow |
"
Why do people not understand that that sick man of Europe tag is a load of bollocks? It was only the unions causing that and trying to fuck the country up.
So nothing to do with the 1973 oil crisis and the fall of the Bretton Woods system of monetary management after the Nixon Shock eh?
The oil crisis was largely to blame for the downturn in the United Kingdom just as it was for the similar crisis in the States, although the real crisis came in the form of the Three-Day Week which was the result of fears over power shortages as a miner's strike was announced in December 1973
We were the worlds 5th biggest economy before we joined the common market. Oh, and then went into recession when we did
Ohh sorry, yeah I got my facts wrong, it was all down to being in the European Communities that brought 1973 recession
It was so bad being a member of the European Communities then The Common Market that the referendum was called to guage public support to continue being a member there was a landslide victory to Remain
Yes 17,378,581 67.23%
No 8,470,073 32.77%
Valid votes 25,848,654 99.79%
Invalid votes 54,540 0.59%
Total votes 25,903,194 100.00%
Registered voters and turnout 40,456,877 64.03%
But yeah, all the EU's fault that one eh ?"
Let's face it,had it remained the common market,
The referendum in june,
would most likely have given a very similar outcome.
.
In fact,had it remained the common market,
There would have been absolutely no need for a referendum.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm still not convinced we need to make the running !
We're leaving if the eu want some ties with us let them come to us !
Fully agree on this.
The EU can shove any 'exit bill' up their pipe too...they've taken us for fools for too long. It's time to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and wave two fingers in their direction. No deal is definitely better than a bad deal, and seeing as they are hell-bent on making us leaving 'difficult' for us, their senior figures having already said so, we really need to show them that we won't be pushed around by their poisonous little club.
If they want to play fair then lets play fair...trade is trade...however the balance of trade works in our favour anyway, so they really need to be careful not to screw themselves up in the process of trying to screw us by altering the status quo. I'm all for tariff-free trading with the EU after Brexit...the only reason the EU want a so-called 'trade deal' is to skew things into their favour.
What are they doing that is "unfair"? We decided to play hard-ball, so that's what's happening. Unless we don't wish to honour our agreements. Then where do we stand?"
So you want to stay in an institution that is falling apart, failing its member states (most of them anyway) and makes arbitrary decisions which make no sense. Yes we want to leave. Why do they then gloat about 'making Britain pay' for leaving...it would be like you being a member of a club or a gym, then deciding to leave...yes you forfeit your membership fees, but you're not made to pay for the upkeep of the premises and equipment for years into the future to allow you to leave. No, you can't use the facilities anymore, but you move on. It's time for Britain to wave two fingers at the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm still not convinced we need to make the running !
We're leaving if the eu want some ties with us let them come to us !
Fully agree on this.
The EU can shove any 'exit bill' up their pipe too...they've taken us for fools for too long. It's time to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and wave two fingers in their direction. No deal is definitely better than a bad deal, and seeing as they are hell-bent on making us leaving 'difficult' for us, their senior figures having already said so, we really need to show them that we won't be pushed around by their poisonous little club.
If they want to play fair then lets play fair...trade is trade...however the balance of trade works in our favour anyway, so they really need to be careful not to screw themselves up in the process of trying to screw us by altering the status quo. I'm all for tariff-free trading with the EU after Brexit...the only reason the EU want a so-called 'trade deal' is to skew things into their favour. this is madness the balance of trade does not work in the UK favour if no trade deal is struck the UK will have to find a new place for 40% of its exports overnight ...while the EU will only have to find a home for 16% of there's....last time I check 40 is more that twice as much as 16"
Give it two or three years, and there will be no EU...it will have ceased to exist as other countries within the bloc recognise the shambles it is and that there is a way out by leaving. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"I'm still not convinced we need to make the running !
We're leaving if the eu want some ties with us let them come to us !
Fully agree on this.
The EU can shove any 'exit bill' up their pipe too...they've taken us for fools for too long. It's time to stand on the white cliffs of Dover and wave two fingers in their direction. No deal is definitely better than a bad deal, and seeing as they are hell-bent on making us leaving 'difficult' for us, their senior figures having already said so, we really need to show them that we won't be pushed around by their poisonous little club.
If they want to play fair then lets play fair...trade is trade...however the balance of trade works in our favour anyway, so they really need to be careful not to screw themselves up in the process of trying to screw us by altering the status quo. I'm all for tariff-free trading with the EU after Brexit...the only reason the EU want a so-called 'trade deal' is to skew things into their favour.
What are they doing that is "unfair"? We decided to play hard-ball, so that's what's happening. Unless we don't wish to honour our agreements. Then where do we stand?
So you want to stay in an institution that is falling apart, failing its member states (most of them anyway) and makes arbitrary decisions which make no sense. Yes we want to leave. Why do they then gloat about 'making Britain pay' for leaving...it would be like you being a member of a club or a gym, then deciding to leave...yes you forfeit your membership fees, but you're not made to pay for the upkeep of the premises and equipment for years into the future to allow you to leave. No, you can't use the facilities anymore, but you move on. It's time for Britain to wave two fingers at the EU."
An arbitrary decision like stazi esque monitoring all your Internet activities perhaps
National security, the pride of Britain |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
successfully? So why is there so much unemployment in the EU area and why is growth stagnant?
Just wondering if you'd like to,answer that one.
The UK, within the EU has had a very low unemployment rate 5.5% similar to the US. Spain a very high one 22%. Germany has 4.5%
I can see why the Spanish might be annoyed, but why should we be?
and there we have it. I'm alright Jack. You're missing the point. You go on about how good this trading block is and how protectionism works for it but it obviously doesn't work for all does it? Isn't this Union supposed to work as a team? And isn't a team only as strong as its weakest player? Would you be saying that the EU works if there was 22% unemployment in the UK? Can you imagine for one minute what that is like? So the north rapes the south and thats good in your book. Why should we moan or care eh
So Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states?
Because you want national sovereignty. You can't force countries to invest in the things that make them prosperous.
They can, at least, move to where the work is.
Will Trump's plan to be more protectionist cause the US economy to "fail"?
did I say Brexit was for the benefit of the poor states? I said the EU doesn't work. Move to where the work is? Oh ye great, tear apart families and communities and further impoverish those countries. Brilliant solution. I don't know how Trumps plan will work, do you?
Your solution is what then? Split it all up and the devil take the hindmost?
Your reasons for Brexit have been so inconsistent that the only real conclusion is that you want to be out of the EU for its own sake. That's fine, but don't seek to justify it with nonsense.
You ask many questions and really struggle to answer it seems.
Remember this one a few posts up?
"protectionism? Is that why the EU is failing?"
So you tell me about Trump. I assume that one will inform the other.
my reasons aren't inconsistent at all, they are just numerous. I don't know fully what Trumps plans are yet, do you? But as far as protectionism goes it has not worked for the EU. Do you think if Trump introduces it in America it will work?"
The UK seems to have done pretty well out of the EU in comparison to other mature states and EU states but you're worried about the poor ones.
However, the reason for Brexit is to do even better on our own and screw sending any money to poorer Europeans and letting them come and work here.
We are saving them from breaking up their families by coming to work hete though. Of course, there may be some "short-term" problems in the UK but those who have to pay higher prices or lose their jobs shouldn't mind that. Of course if you're retired that doesn't matter too much.
Protectionism has been a "disaster" for Europe but you're not sure if it will be a problem in the USA.
Clear |
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By *asyukMan
over a year ago
West London |
"
Let's face it,had it remained the common market,
The referendum in june,
would most likely have given a very similar outcome.
.
In fact,had it remained the common market,
There would have been absolutely no need for a referendum.
"
Bored of hearing this. This is what the UK signed up to.
'Treaty of Rome
The 1957 Treaty Establishing the European Community contained the objective of “ever closer union” in the following words in the Preamble. In English this is: “Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe …..”.
Article 2 of the Treaty also promoted the ‘spirit’ of closer union in its description of the aims of the Community, ending with “closer relations between the States belonging to it”.'
What this means exactly is very open to interpretation and what has resulted may not be desirable, but please stop claiming that the EEC was only about the economy because it has the word "Economic" in it just the same as the European Court of Human Rights has nothing to do with the EU even though it has the word "European" in it. |
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