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By *ercury OP Man
over a year ago
Grantham |
A referendum in Turkey today could give the President more powers, and possibly making an Islam Dictatorship on the Eastern end of the EU.
Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?
A YES vote would probably mean then end of Turkey's ambitions of joining the EU. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"A referendum in Turkey today could give the President more powers, and possibly making an Islam Dictatorship on the Eastern end of the EU.
Is this a good thing, or a bad thing?
A YES vote would probably mean then end of Turkey's ambitions of joining the EU."
I think yes will be the outcome. The secular opposition have lost votes because of the attempted coup and the EUs position over the Syrian crisis. Its a shame as modern Turkey was founded on secularism .Nationalism is the order of the day globally. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Clearly a presidential system is not a bad thing, per se. The proponents of the presidential system evidently have the U.S. model of an executive presidency in mind, but without the American traditions of separation of powers, together with the presence of loosely-organized and relatively centrist political parties. Judicial independence in the U.S. ensures the appointment of judges and public prosecutors based on their competency, keen intellect, and acumen rather than their subservience to political leaders. Therefore, none of the branches abuse their authority and become prone to terminate one another in the event that they are controlled by different parties. Unfortunately, this is not the case for countries like Turkey where ideological differences among political parties run deep and society is highly polarized.
The recent debate on presidentialism in Turkey has put the country at risk of degenerating into authoritarian rule. The Turkish advocates of the presidential system invariably view parliamentarism as the underlying reason for the long-term political and economic instability in the country. They assert that the current system is doomed to invite crises and deadlocks, handicapping Turkey’s efforts to achieve higher growth and development. Accordingly, the proponents of presidentialism believe that the new system will allow for faster and smoother decision-making and a more stable system of governance. On the other hand, the opposition regards the amendment proposal as an irreversible step towards Erdogan’s dictatorial leadership.
Conclusion
Turkey is certainly in need of a new constitution to improve its democracy and continue to act in accord with the foundational principles of Ataturk’s Turkey. Nevertheless, the current amendment proposal in no way reflects the well-rooted tradition of parliamentarism in Turkey, but rather seeks a decisive break in the constitutional history of the country. The rationale behind the proposal is not based on the logic of separation of powers, which is characteristic for democratic presidential systems, since it lacks the necessary checks-and-balances required to safeguard against authoritarian one-man-rule. Considering that the history of parliamentarism in Turkey was adopted against the idea of consolidating power around one powerful leader, the introduction of a presidential system in Turkey through the current amendment proposal is the epitome of waking up the long-asleep Sultan figure against Atatürk’s secular republic.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion."
WTF i am an atheist along with millions of EU citizens.The EU isnt a theocracy its very secular and neither is turkey a theocracy at present its secular.
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"Clearly a presidential system is not a bad thing, per se. The proponents of the presidential system evidently have the U.S. model of an executive presidency in mind, but without the American traditions of separation of powers, together with the presence of loosely-organized and relatively centrist political parties. Judicial independence in the U.S. ensures the appointment of judges and public prosecutors based on their competency, keen intellect, and acumen rather than their subservience to political leaders. Therefore, none of the branches abuse their authority and become prone to terminate one another in the event that they are controlled by different parties. Unfortunately, this is not the case for countries like Turkey where ideological differences among political parties run deep and society is highly polarized.
The recent debate on presidentialism in Turkey has put the country at risk of degenerating into authoritarian rule. The Turkish advocates of the presidential system invariably view parliamentarism as the underlying reason for the long-term political and economic instability in the country. They assert that the current system is doomed to invite crises and deadlocks, handicapping Turkey’s efforts to achieve higher growth and development. Accordingly, the proponents of presidentialism believe that the new system will allow for faster and smoother decision-making and a more stable system of governance. On the other hand, the opposition regards the amendment proposal as an irreversible step towards Erdogan’s dictatorial leadership.
Conclusion
Turkey is certainly in need of a new constitution to improve its democracy and continue to act in accord with the foundational principles of Ataturk’s Turkey. Nevertheless, the current amendment proposal in no way reflects the well-rooted tradition of parliamentarism in Turkey, but rather seeks a decisive break in the constitutional history of the country. The rationale behind the proposal is not based on the logic of separation of powers, which is characteristic for democratic presidential systems, since it lacks the necessary checks-and-balances required to safeguard against authoritarian one-man-rule. Considering that the history of parliamentarism in Turkey was adopted against the idea of consolidating power around one powerful leader, the introduction of a presidential system in Turkey through the current amendment proposal is the epitome of waking up the long-asleep Sultan figure against Atatürk’s secular republic.
"
Good post..  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
 "
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
"
Turkey is predominantly Muslim but Crucially they don't persecute other religions at the moment !
This could be a dangerous turning point !
Perhaps the E U should have courted them more , as now it could be too late ? |
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too."
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too.
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? "
I know. I was comparing the religions there. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
Turkey is predominantly Muslim but Crucially they don't persecute other religions at the moment !
This could be a dangerous turning point !
Perhaps the E U should have courted them more , as now it could be too late ?"
That is right they are, lets see what happens in the future. |
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too.
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? I know. I was comparing the religions there."
mainly but wholly Islam yes but the EU does not have a religion..
also the last i looked the principles for joining the EU are about a bit more than religion if indeed that is an element at all..
not everything can be answered by your constant referral to your dislike of Islam.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too.
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? I know. I was comparing the religions there.
mainly but wholly Islam yes but the EU does not have a religion..
also the last i looked the principles for joining the EU are about a bit more than religion if indeed that is an element at all..
not everything can be answered by your constant referral to your dislike of Islam.."
Ah, political correctness lol |
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too.
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? I know. I was comparing the religions there.
mainly but wholly Islam yes but the EU does not have a religion..
also the last i looked the principles for joining the EU are about a bit more than religion if indeed that is an element at all..
not everything can be answered by your constant referral to your dislike of Islam..Ah, political correctness lol"
no not at all..
its obvious that you are of that mind and its got fuck all to do with pc in mentioning it, allows you the obvious cop out in avoiding the thread by saying it though..
what religion were you referring to in relation to the EU then..? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too.
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? I know. I was comparing the religions there.
mainly but wholly Islam yes but the EU does not have a religion..
also the last i looked the principles for joining the EU are about a bit more than religion if indeed that is an element at all..
not everything can be answered by your constant referral to your dislike of Islam..Ah, political correctness lol
no not at all..
its obvious that you are of that mind and its got fuck all to do with pc in mentioning it, allows you the obvious cop out in avoiding the thread by saying it though..
what religion were you referring to in relation to the EU then..?"
I wont go into a silly argument over this lol. |
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"They could never join eu as they dont share our religion.
Shag, sometimes i wonder if you know what you are talking about..
I do and I wonder the same about you sometimes too.
then you do realise that what you said has no foundation, on both Turkey and the EU yes? I know. I was comparing the religions there.
mainly but wholly Islam yes but the EU does not have a religion..
also the last i looked the principles for joining the EU are about a bit more than religion if indeed that is an element at all..
not everything can be answered by your constant referral to your dislike of Islam..Ah, political correctness lol
no not at all..
its obvious that you are of that mind and its got fuck all to do with pc in mentioning it, allows you the obvious cop out in avoiding the thread by saying it though..
what religion were you referring to in relation to the EU then..?I wont go into a silly argument over this lol."
Kin ell shag its your own statement..
if you don't know what it means or what you meant you could have just agreed initially that you don't know what your talking about..
there's chocolate to eat..
 |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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He's probably just one of those people in the world where absolute power is corrupting absolutely. The World is full of very ambitious people who hunger for power and stop at nothing to get more of it and keep it. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I've said it before, I don't see Turkey being able to join the EU in my lifetime. In around 25 years Turkey have only managed to conform to 1 out of about 20 areas required to be able to join. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Like it or not ?
But Turkey is probbally the Best of all the Country's with a Muslim Majority Poppulation !
And yes that does make you think ?
"
But what do you think would happen if it has a Muslim government ?
Watch this space |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"Clearly a presidential system is not a bad thing, per se. The proponents of the presidential system evidently have the U.S. model of an executive presidency in mind, but without the American traditions of separation of powers, together with the presence of loosely-organized and relatively centrist political parties. Judicial independence in the U.S. ensures the appointment of judges and public prosecutors based on their competency, keen intellect, and acumen rather than their subservience to political leaders. Therefore, none of the branches abuse their authority and become prone to terminate one another in the event that they are controlled by different parties. Unfortunately, this is not the case for countries like Turkey where ideological differences among political parties run deep and society is highly polarized.
The recent debate on presidentialism in Turkey has put the country at risk of degenerating into authoritarian rule. The Turkish advocates of the presidential system invariably view parliamentarism as the underlying reason for the long-term political and economic instability in the country. They assert that the current system is doomed to invite crises and deadlocks, handicapping Turkey’s efforts to achieve higher growth and development. Accordingly, the proponents of presidentialism believe that the new system will allow for faster and smoother decision-making and a more stable system of governance. On the other hand, the opposition regards the amendment proposal as an irreversible step towards Erdogan’s dictatorial leadership.
Conclusion
Turkey is certainly in need of a new constitution to improve its democracy and continue to act in accord with the foundational principles of Ataturk’s Turkey. Nevertheless, the current amendment proposal in no way reflects the well-rooted tradition of parliamentarism in Turkey, but rather seeks a decisive break in the constitutional history of the country. The rationale behind the proposal is not based on the logic of separation of powers, which is characteristic for democratic presidential systems, since it lacks the necessary checks-and-balances required to safeguard against authoritarian one-man-rule. Considering that the history of parliamentarism in Turkey was adopted against the idea of consolidating power around one powerful leader, the introduction of a presidential system in Turkey through the current amendment proposal is the epitome of waking up the long-asleep Sultan figure against Atatürk’s secular republic.
"
  |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
" I have a sneaky suspicion that the recent coup was orchestrated by Erdogan to influence the vote in his favour. "
All indicators point that way ! 
And eliminate any active opposition simmering below the surface, as well as a warning sign for any thinking about it ! |
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Netherlands crisis: check
Games in Syria: check
Coup: check
Dismissal of the army:check
Journalists in jail: check
Government PROPERTIES sold: check
Changes in constitution: check
Fear in public: check
Play with morals: check
Media power held: check
Unfair referandum: check
Divide public: check
Unorthodox money sources: check
Question, is it Hitler or Erdogan above?
It's obviously going to a dictatorship not presidential system.
Ataturk died in 1938 but been buried in 2017. He tried to give freedom and bring democracy to Turkish people. Shame really.
Some believe it was a rigged referandum. So do I however I think it is something no one can rewind.
I love Turkey but today it is scary. It will be scarier in the near future.
 |
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By *onyxptMan
over a year ago
st neots, living in Albufeira-Algarve-Portugal |
"Netherlands crisis: check
Games in Syria: check
Coup: check
Dismissal of the army:check
Journalists in jail: check
Government PROPERTIES sold: check
Changes in constitution: check
Fear in public: check
Play with morals: check
Media power held: check
Unfair referandum: check
Divide public: check
Unorthodox money sources: check
Question, is it Hitler or Erdogan above?
It's obviously going to a dictatorship not presidential system.
Ataturk died in 1938 but been buried in 2017. He tried to give freedom and bring democracy to Turkish people. Shame really.
Some believe it was a rigged referandum. So do I however I think it is something no one can rewind.
I love Turkey but today it is scary. It will be scarier in the near future.
"
Its sure to hit tourism , if all the islamic BS starts to be implemented !
Guess more tourist coming to Portugal instead ...... nice ! more swingers too ! |
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