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More sexism in politics
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So the Green Party has a "Women's manifesto" which includes "preserving women's healthcare facilities" and "promising to end asylum detention, starting with the release of vulnerable female detainees"
Sounds like a perfect definition of sexism, right?
Is this why so few people vote for them? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Crazy isn't it, that a political party can favour people based on their sex.
Similar to when Labour launched the "women's minister" role.
Blatant sexism  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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The Green Party would
* Recognise that work consists of many tasks other than those that are currently paid.
* Introduce a citizens’ income for all, and a citizens’ pension. These measure would significantly reduce poverty, and particularly women’s poverty, and end the traps that can make returning to paid work, or doing part-time work, currently unsustainable or financially impossible.
* Introduce shared maternity and paternity leave for the first month after birth or adoption, then provide for 22 months, which must be shared so that the parent taking less time takes a minimum of six months, except for single parents. This is to be paid at 90% of salary up to a reasonable level.
* Introduce a law to ensure that boards of major companies are at least 40% female. (Following the model in Norway)
* Insist that all large and medium-size companies carry out equal pay audits, and redress inequalities uncovered; and that the law be changed to make joint suits for equal pay cases simpler.
* Implement its model policy for dealing with domestic abuse (including domestic violence) which recognizes that the needs and desires of the victims must be paramount, and that all service providers who come into contact with potentially vulnerable women need to be trained to provide appropriate assistance
* Ensure that a full range of birth options is available to all women, and that all women are entitled to the care of a single midwife throughout their maternity experience and postnatally.
* Improve services to assist mothers to breastfeed if they choose, and introduce a law with significant fines for companies whose employees attempt to stop women breastfeeding on their premises (as has been successfully implemented in Scotland.
* Remove the law requiring the consent of two doctors for an abortion, allow midwives and nurses who are appropriately qualified to perform abortions, and remove other restrictions that are medically unnecessary, with the aim of improving access to NHS abortions.
* Ensure that r#pe crisis centres and domestic violence centres receive guaranteed funding from core budgets so that they are not forced to operate in a state of constant funding uncertainty.
* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence. |
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I get and agree with the OP.
I despise discrimination! And all discrimination needs to be stamped out.
Discrimination is discrimination regardless of how it is packaged. Positive discrimination for any section of society is negative discrimination for all other sections of society. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"The Green Party would
* Recognise that work consists of many tasks other than those that are currently paid.
* Introduce a citizens’ income for all, and a citizens’ pension. These measure would significantly reduce poverty, and particularly women’s poverty, and end the traps that can make returning to paid work, or doing part-time work, currently unsustainable or financially impossible.
* Introduce shared maternity and paternity leave for the first month after birth or adoption, then provide for 22 months, which must be shared so that the parent taking less time takes a minimum of six months, except for single parents. This is to be paid at 90% of salary up to a reasonable level.
* Introduce a law to ensure that boards of major companies are at least 40% female. (Following the model in Norway)
* Insist that all large and medium-size companies carry out equal pay audits, and redress inequalities uncovered; and that the law be changed to make joint suits for equal pay cases simpler.
* Implement its model policy for dealing with domestic abuse (including domestic violence) which recognizes that the needs and desires of the victims must be paramount, and that all service providers who come into contact with potentially vulnerable women need to be trained to provide appropriate assistance
* Ensure that a full range of birth options is available to all women, and that all women are entitled to the care of a single midwife throughout their maternity experience and postnatally.
* Improve services to assist mothers to breastfeed if they choose, and introduce a law with significant fines for companies whose employees attempt to stop women breastfeeding on their premises (as has been successfully implemented in Scotland.
* Remove the law requiring the consent of two doctors for an abortion, allow midwives and nurses who are appropriately qualified to perform abortions, and remove other restrictions that are medically unnecessary, with the aim of improving access to NHS abortions.
* Ensure that r#pe crisis centres and domestic violence centres receive guaranteed funding from core budgets so that they are not forced to operate in a state of constant funding uncertainty.
* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence."
It's MISANDRY I tells yer!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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So no policies aimed at ending the discrimination men face?
Surely we need manifestos that are either for everyone (gender neutral) or address male and female problems concurrently?
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I get and agree with the OP.
I despise discrimination! And all discrimination needs to be stamped out.
Discrimination is discrimination regardless of how it is packaged. Positive discrimination for any section of society is negative discrimination for all other sections of society."
 |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"So no policies aimed at ending the discrimination men face?
Surely we need manifestos that are either for everyone (gender neutral) or address male and female problems concurrently?
"
"The discrimination men face".... |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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""The discrimination men face".... "
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop."
"All Hard/dirty/unpleasant jobs are done by men"
Reeeeaaaallly?
The wage gap and a patriarchal society are a myth?
The fact that so much sexual assault by men goes unreported through fear is much more of a concern to me than the odd occasion where Ched Evans is let off....
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions.
|
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Ched Evans wasn't let off at all, he's totally innocent as proven in a court of law. The girl who accused him should be locked up!
Such a shame that so many men's lives are ruined by liars. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"Ched Evans wasn't let off at all, he's totally innocent as proven in a court of law. The girl who accused him should be locked up!
Such a shame that so many men's lives are ruined by liars."
It's much more of a shame that so many womens' lives are ruined by r*pists.
How many women do you know who have been r*ped? I know at least two (others may have been and not told me, obviously) and I'm not that unusual. Neither of them saw their r*pist charged.
Now; how many men do you know who a)have been falsely accused of sexual assault by women and of those b)how many have had anything happen? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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I dont' think that's a very scientific way of judging the situation.
I'm more inclined to go by number of complaints vs number of convictions.
Which (correct me if I'm wrong) is about 5% conviction rate. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"I dont' think that's a very scientific way of judging the situation.
I'm more inclined to go by number of complaints vs number of convictions.
Which (correct me if I'm wrong) is about 5% conviction rate."
So 95% of sexual assault claims are lies in your eyes? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"So 95% of sexual assault claims are lies in your eyes?"
A mix of lies, exaggerations, vindictive behaviour and attempts to suppress male sexuality.
To answer a previous question of yours - I've r***d zero people. But been threatend with a r**e allegation twice during relationship breakups. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
"So 95% of sexual assault claims are lies in your eyes?
A mix of lies, exaggerations, vindictive behaviour and attempts to suppress male sexuality.
To answer a previous question of yours - I've r***d zero people. But been threatend with a r**e allegation twice during relationship breakups."
Nothing to do with r*pe being hard to prove or the percieved shame in making such allegations then?
"Supressing male sexuality"? Really? Are you suggesting that men forcing theselves on women is part of normal male sexuality? |
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""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop.
"All Hard/dirty/unpleasant jobs are done by men"
Reeeeaaaallly?
The wage gap and a patriarchal society are a myth?
The fact that so much sexual assault by men goes unreported through fear is much more of a concern to me than the odd occasion where Ched Evans is let off....
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions.
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times. For the record, women who don't have children actually earn more than men on average. |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop.
"All Hard/dirty/unpleasant jobs are done by men"
Reeeeaaaallly?
The wage gap and a patriarchal society are a myth?
The fact that so much sexual assault by men goes unreported through fear is much more of a concern to me than the odd occasion where Ched Evans is let off....
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions.
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times. For the record, women who don't have children actually earn more than men on average. "
Eh?
What has that got to do with anything I quoted?
The post said that men have "all the hard/unpleasant/dirty jobs"....
And it was said without a trace of irony... |
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By *obka3Couple
over a year ago
bournemouth |
"The Green Party would
* Recognise that work consists of many tasks other than those that are currently paid.
* Introduce a citizens’ income for all, and a citizens’ pension. These measure would significantly reduce poverty, and particularly women’s poverty, and end the traps that can make returning to paid work, or doing part-time work, currently unsustainable or financially impossible.
* Introduce shared maternity and paternity leave for the first month after birth or adoption, then provide for 22 months, which must be shared so that the parent taking less time takes a minimum of six months, except for single parents. This is to be paid at 90% of salary up to a reasonable level.
* Introduce a law to ensure that boards of major companies are at least 40% female. (Following the model in Norway)
* Insist that all large and medium-size companies carry out equal pay audits, and redress inequalities uncovered; and that the law be changed to make joint suits for equal pay cases simpler.
* Implement its model policy for dealing with domestic abuse (including domestic violence) which recognizes that the needs and desires of the victims must be paramount, and that all service providers who come into contact with potentially vulnerable women need to be trained to provide appropriate assistance
* Ensure that a full range of birth options is available to all women, and that all women are entitled to the care of a single midwife throughout their maternity experience and postnatally.
* Improve services to assist mothers to breastfeed if they choose, and introduce a law with significant fines for companies whose employees attempt to stop women breastfeeding on their premises (as has been successfully implemented in Scotland.
* Remove the law requiring the consent of two doctors for an abortion, allow midwives and nurses who are appropriately qualified to perform abortions, and remove other restrictions that are medically unnecessary, with the aim of improving access to NHS abortions.
* Ensure that r#pe crisis centres and domestic violence centres receive guaranteed funding from core budgets so that they are not forced to operate in a state of constant funding uncertainty.
* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence."
Exactly who is going to pay for the citizen pay and pensions, if you want kids then pay for them.
Their policies make corbyn sound normal,la la land |
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By *ercuryMan
over a year ago
Grantham |
"The Green Party would
* Recognise that work consists of many tasks other than those that are currently paid.
* Introduce a citizens’ income for all, and a citizens’ pension. These measure would significantly reduce poverty, and particularly women’s poverty, and end the traps that can make returning to paid work, or doing part-time work, currently unsustainable or financially impossible.
* Introduce shared maternity and paternity leave for the first month after birth or adoption, then provide for 22 months, which must be shared so that the parent taking less time takes a minimum of six months, except for single parents. This is to be paid at 90% of salary up to a reasonable level.
* Introduce a law to ensure that boards of major companies are at least 40% female. (Following the model in Norway)
* Insist that all large and medium-size companies carry out equal pay audits, and redress inequalities uncovered; and that the law be changed to make joint suits for equal pay cases simpler.
* Implement its model policy for dealing with domestic abuse (including domestic violence) which recognizes that the needs and desires of the victims must be paramount, and that all service providers who come into contact with potentially vulnerable women need to be trained to provide appropriate assistance
* Ensure that a full range of birth options is available to all women, and that all women are entitled to the care of a single midwife throughout their maternity experience and postnatally.
* Improve services to assist mothers to breastfeed if they choose, and introduce a law with significant fines for companies whose employees attempt to stop women breastfeeding on their premises (as has been successfully implemented in Scotland.
* Remove the law requiring the consent of two doctors for an abortion, allow midwives and nurses who are appropriately qualified to perform abortions, and remove other restrictions that are medically unnecessary, with the aim of improving access to NHS abortions.
* Ensure that r#pe crisis centres and domestic violence centres receive guaranteed funding from core budgets so that they are not forced to operate in a state of constant funding uncertainty.
* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence.
Exactly who is going to pay for the citizen pay and pensions, if you want kids then pay for them.
Their policies make corbyn sound normal,la la land "
I'm sure Natalie Bennett will be along in a minute to tell us.....  |
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"So 95% of sexual assault claims are lies in your eyes?
A mix of lies, exaggerations, vindictive behaviour and attempts to suppress male sexuality.
To answer a previous question of yours - I've r***d zero people. But been threatend with a r**e allegation twice during relationship breakups."
Wtf  |
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""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop.
"All Hard/dirty/unpleasant jobs are done by men"
Reeeeaaaallly?
The wage gap and a patriarchal society are a myth?
The fact that so much sexual assault by men goes unreported through fear is much more of a concern to me than the odd occasion where Ched Evans is let off....
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions.
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times. For the record, women who don't have children actually earn more than men on average.
Eh?
What has that got to do with anything I quoted?
The post said that men have "all the hard/unpleasant/dirty jobs"....
And it was said without a trace of irony..."
The wage gap with a question mark at the end of the sentence |
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By *imiUKMan
over a year ago
Newbury |
""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop.
"All Hard/dirty/unpleasant jobs are done by men"
Reeeeaaaallly?
The wage gap and a patriarchal society are a myth?
The fact that so much sexual assault by men goes unreported through fear is much more of a concern to me than the odd occasion where Ched Evans is let off....
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions.
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times. For the record, women who don't have children actually earn more than men on average.
Eh?
What has that got to do with anything I quoted?
The post said that men have "all the hard/unpleasant/dirty jobs"....
And it was said without a trace of irony...
The wage gap with a question mark at the end of the sentence "
The question had two qualifiers:
You don't think that our society is patriachal? The wage gap may not exist (although how recently it ceased to exist, I'd be intersted to know) in the UK, but globally, it very much does. Also the wage gap does not cover the whole of the wealth gap, does it? |
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"I get and agree with the OP.
I despise discrimination! And all discrimination needs to be stamped out.
Discrimination is discrimination regardless of how it is packaged. Positive discrimination for any section of society is negative discrimination for all other sections of society."
I agree too |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"You don't think that our society is patriachal?"
Some areas are (ie professional sport) others are matriarchal (ie education). Generally though women are protected more than men and have an easier ride through relationships and family life.
Globally yes, some non-Western countries are very patriarchal. The middle east for example (except Israel). One of the reasons Israel should annexe the whole lot and bring them culture and equality. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop."
I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?"
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism. |
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By *mmabluTV/TS
over a year ago
upton wirral |
"So the Green Party has a "Women's manifesto" which includes "preserving women's healthcare facilities" and "promising to end asylum detention, starting with the release of vulnerable female detainees"
Sounds like a perfect definition of sexism, right?
Yes it is sexism but I am certain it has nothing to do with why people do not vote for them
Is this why so few people vote for them?"
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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I personally have an extreme distaste for "positive discrimination" politics.. all they really serve to do is pervade and compound differences and the prejudice associated.
Asylum seekers (and accompanying minors) should be judged on the merits of their application..not waved through because they happen to be a particular gender or have offspring and tug the heartstrings of a few high profile Livvies living in leafy suburbs far removed from the social implications.
The health thing I agree with, many woman with underlying cancers have been repeatedly turned away because they're considered "too young" to be at risk of certain cancers ect to the point were the cancer has progressed and become untreatable.
The greens have some fantastic environmental policies but vacuously neoliberal socially and economically thereby rendering them unelectable and not really worth talking about. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism."
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage? "
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again "
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I get and agree with the OP.
I despise discrimination! And all discrimination needs to be stamped out.
Discrimination is discrimination regardless of how it is packaged. Positive discrimination for any section of society is negative discrimination for all other sections of society."
Don't usually agree with you , but respect your views and your Bang on with this one ! |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions."
In sweden they are doing a good of emasculating the men. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one."
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one.
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself."
Right, my question is stupid, but the person who says that an FGM policy should apply to men isn't stupid.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one.
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself.
Right, my question is stupid, but the person who says that an FGM policy should apply to men isn't stupid. "
Told you, not my argument. Although after a quick flick through the thread you seem to be the first person to mention FGM so not too sure who the other person is you refer to. I know someone mentions domestic abuse towards women making the point men can suffer it too, which is a reasonable comment.
Anyway just to make sure you understand, as we all know you struggle with comprehension, not my argument. I'm going to toodle off now, play nicely xx |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one.
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself.
Right, my question is stupid, but the person who says that an FGM policy should apply to men isn't stupid.
Told you, not my argument. Although after a quick flick through the thread you seem to be the first person to mention FGM so not too sure who the other person is you refer to. I know someone mentions domestic abuse towards women making the point men can suffer it too, which is a reasonable comment.
Anyway just to make sure you understand, as we all know you struggle with comprehension, not my argument. I'm going to toodle off now, play nicely xx "
This is from bobbangs:
"* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence."
Then the OP said:
"Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially." |
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""The discrimination men face"....
"Inequality" might have been a better term.
Like the lack of domestic violence shelters for men (huge majority are sexist and turn men away).
Like the high male rate of suicide
Like the fact all hard / dirty / unpleasant jobs are done by men and not women (no Green Party 40% quota on refuse collectors is there?!)
Like men losing custody of children and being screwed over in divorce by the female biased courts.
Like the lack of action taken against false sexual misconduct allegations.
Like the fact we allow hateful myths like the wage gap, or "patriarchy" to be spread online.
There's so much feminist led pressure on men it needs to stop."
Hateful myths? I don't care if this leads to a ban. You're an idiot. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one.
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself.
Right, my question is stupid, but the person who says that an FGM policy should apply to men isn't stupid.
Told you, not my argument. Although after a quick flick through the thread you seem to be the first person to mention FGM so not too sure who the other person is you refer to. I know someone mentions domestic abuse towards women making the point men can suffer it too, which is a reasonable comment.
Anyway just to make sure you understand, as we all know you struggle with comprehension, not my argument. I'm going to toodle off now, play nicely xx
This is from bobbangs:
"* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence."
Then the OP said:
"Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.""
Its obvious women and children are the most vulnerable assylum seekers and policy should reflect this.
I dont relate to the OP feeling hes being pressured into being less of a man by the above green policies regarding women. I just dont get it.Maybe they've already converted me into a meto sexual cuckhold feminist ..  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one.
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself.
Right, my question is stupid, but the person who says that an FGM policy should apply to men isn't stupid.
Told you, not my argument. Although after a quick flick through the thread you seem to be the first person to mention FGM so not too sure who the other person is you refer to. I know someone mentions domestic abuse towards women making the point men can suffer it too, which is a reasonable comment.
Anyway just to make sure you understand, as we all know you struggle with comprehension, not my argument. I'm going to toodle off now, play nicely xx
This is from bobbangs:
"* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence."
Then the OP said:
"Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially." Its obvious women and children are the most vulnerable assylum seekers and policy should reflect this.
I dont relate to the OP feeling hes being pressured into being less of a man by the above green policies regarding women. I just dont get it.Maybe they've already converted me into a meto sexual cuckhold feminist .. "
Come on Bob, you must have noticed the biggest political driver in the western world is straight white men feeling threatened. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
Ironic isn't it that it seems that it is only sexist to discriminate against women.
Seems that discriminating against men is fine.
Methinks that there are some who don't quite understand what equality means - and think that some should be more equal than others |
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By *oi_LucyCouple
over a year ago
Barbados |
"Ironic isn't it that it seems that it is only sexist to discriminate against women.
Seems that discriminating against men is fine.
Methinks that there are some who don't quite understand what equality means - and think that some should be more equal than others"
Indeed. Treating everyone 'equally' most often doesn't take into account that people start in different places and with different circumstances. The concept of 'equitability' is that you give people the necessary support to teach an equal outcome regardless of where they start.
Eg. Someone above said something like the gender pay gap has been proved false for non- childbearing women. Oh. Great. So as long as a woman doesn't want to have a family then in is all hunky dorey.
"But it is their choice to have a family" some cry. Well, yes it is in many cases. Should you wish you could follow that through to its logical conclusion and the extinction of our race should you wish.
Why should women be penalised financially if they wanted to start a family? Do we not value their role in society in doing so?
-Matt |
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"Ironic isn't it that it seems that it is only sexist to discriminate against women.
Seems that discriminating against men is fine.
Methinks that there are some who don't quite understand what equality means - and think that some should be more equal than others
Indeed. Treating everyone 'equally' most often doesn't take into account that people start in different places and with different circumstances. The concept of 'equitability' is that you give people the necessary support to teach an equal outcome regardless of where they start.
Eg. Someone above said something like the gender pay gap has been proved false for non- childbearing women. Oh. Great. So as long as a woman doesn't want to have a family then in is all hunky dorey.
"But it is their choice to have a family" some cry. Well, yes it is in many cases. Should you wish you could follow that through to its logical conclusion and the extinction of our race should you wish.
Why should women be penalised financially if they wanted to start a family? Do we not value their role in society in doing so?
-Matt"
They aren't being penalised, they are just bring paid according to their levels of experience, qualifications and work place achievements. These are reduced the more time one spends off work. That's just how a free market works. I don't really understand what the alternative to that would be? They aren't being penalised anymore than i am for earning less than a lawyer because i didn't study law.
I do support better childcare to minimise the impact of children if women want to return to work. Part of the reason childcare is so expensive is pure regulation above what most european countries have so it could easily be changed. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"Ironic isn't it that it seems that it is only sexist to discriminate against women.
Seems that discriminating against men is fine.
Methinks that there are some who don't quite understand what equality means - and think that some should be more equal than others
Indeed. Treating everyone 'equally' most often doesn't take into account that people start in different places and with different circumstances. The concept of 'equitability' is that you give people the necessary support to teach an equal outcome regardless of where they start.
Eg. Someone above said something like the gender pay gap has been proved false for non- childbearing women. Oh. Great. So as long as a woman doesn't want to have a family then in is all hunky dorey.
"But it is their choice to have a family" some cry. Well, yes it is in many cases. Should you wish you could follow that through to its logical conclusion and the extinction of our race should you wish.
Why should women be penalised financially if they wanted to start a family? Do we not value their role in society in doing so?
-Matt
They aren't being penalised, they are just bring paid according to their levels of experience, qualifications and work place achievements. These are reduced the more time one spends off work. That's just how a free market works. I don't really understand what the alternative to that would be? They aren't being penalised anymore than i am for earning less than a lawyer because i didn't study law.
I do support better childcare to minimise the impact of children if women want to return to work. Part of the reason childcare is so expensive is pure regulation above what most european countries have so it could easily be changed."
They are penalised, my wife has just studied hard for two years, gained a relevant qualification, was about to be promoted, then when she was forced to tell them she was pregnant the promotion disappeared. Her workplace experience didn't change, her qualifications didn't chnage as a result of pregnancy, neither did her workplace achievements. So why did the promotion disappear? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo"
So what about the multi million pound pay out that Birmingham council had to pay for their unequal pay? |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo
So what about the multi million pound pay out that Birmingham council had to pay for their unequal pay? "
Honestly i think you are smart enough to work that out for yourself and you know why anecdotal examples don't prove a statistical trend. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo"
The government says its 18.1 % |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %"
Not for the same work |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %
Not for the same work"
I've just read online we dont have all the data on pay yet .
Private and public sector employers with 250 or more employees will be required to publish their figures by April 2018. The regulations will cover approximately 9,000 employers with over 15 million employees, representing nearly half of the UK’s workforce.
|
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %
Not for the same work I've just read online we dont have all the data on pay yet .
Private and public sector employers with 250 or more employees will be required to publish their figures by April 2018. The regulations will cover approximately 9,000 employers with over 15 million employees, representing nearly half of the UK’s workforce.
"
But again that won't achieve anything because the data is simply divided by gender.
We already know the average woman earns less than the average man. This is undisputed. But we also know the average woman has fewer years experience, is more likely to work part time and is less likely to do a dangerous job. This is why the gap is statistically insignificant when you compare like for like, which those figures won't. |
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"both sides of this thread have been debunked .... and before anyone ask, here's the example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMedd03JCA"
So go start a company and only hire women then, your costs will be 10-20% lower than your competitors which is more than enough to dominate the market. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"both sides of this thread have been debunked .... and before anyone ask, here's the example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMedd03JCA
So go start a company and only hire women then, your costs will be 10-20% lower than your competitors which is more than enough to dominate the market. "
you clearly didn't click on the link, let alone read what i wrote. lol |
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"both sides of this thread have been debunked .... and before anyone ask, here's the example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UMedd03JCA
So go start a company and only hire women then, your costs will be 10-20% lower than your competitors which is more than enough to dominate the market.
you clearly didn't click on the link, let alone read what i wrote. lol"
I did, it was today in history. Devoid of any meaning |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %
Not for the same work I've just read online we dont have all the data on pay yet .
Private and public sector employers with 250 or more employees will be required to publish their figures by April 2018. The regulations will cover approximately 9,000 employers with over 15 million employees, representing nearly half of the UK’s workforce.
But again that won't achieve anything because the data is simply divided by gender.
We already know the average woman earns less than the average man. This is undisputed. But we also know the average woman has fewer years experience, is more likely to work part time and is less likely to do a dangerous job. This is why the gap is statistically insignificant when you compare like for like, which those figures won't. "
As part of the new regulations, employers will be required to:
Publish their median gender pay gap figures
By identifying the wage of the middle earner, the median is the best representation of the ‘typical’ gender difference. Employers will be asked to use data from a ‘snapshot’ period in April to calculate this average.
Publish their mean gender pay gap figures
By taking into account the full earnings distribution, the mean takes into account the low and high earners in an organisation – this is particularly useful as women are often over-represented at the low earning extreme and men are over-represented at the high earning extreme.
Publish the proportion of men & women in each quartile of the pay structure.
This data will show the spread of male and female earners across an organisation, helping to show employers where women’s progress might be stalling so they can take action to support their career development.
Publish the gender pay gaps for any bonuses paid out during the year
As there is a significant issue around bonus payments in some sectors, employers will also have to publish the proportion of male and proportion of female employees that received a bonus during the year. |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %
Not for the same work I've just read online we dont have all the data on pay yet .
Private and public sector employers with 250 or more employees will be required to publish their figures by April 2018. The regulations will cover approximately 9,000 employers with over 15 million employees, representing nearly half of the UK’s workforce.
But again that won't achieve anything because the data is simply divided by gender.
We already know the average woman earns less than the average man. This is undisputed. But we also know the average woman has fewer years experience, is more likely to work part time and is less likely to do a dangerous job. This is why the gap is statistically insignificant when you compare like for like, which those figures won't. As part of the new regulations, employers will be required to:
Publish their median gender pay gap figures
By identifying the wage of the middle earner, the median is the best representation of the ‘typical’ gender difference. Employers will be asked to use data from a ‘snapshot’ period in April to calculate this average.
Publish their mean gender pay gap figures
By taking into account the full earnings distribution, the mean takes into account the low and high earners in an organisation – this is particularly useful as women are often over-represented at the low earning extreme and men are over-represented at the high earning extreme.
Publish the proportion of men & women in each quartile of the pay structure.
This data will show the spread of male and female earners across an organisation, helping to show employers where women’s progress might be stalling so they can take action to support their career development.
Publish the gender pay gaps for any bonuses paid out during the year
As there is a significant issue around bonus payments in some sectors, employers will also have to publish the proportion of male and proportion of female employees that received a bonus during the year."
Again, meaningless data for the reasons already stated. There's no value in apples and oranges comparisons. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Ched Evans wasn't let off at all, he's totally innocent as proven in a court of law. The girl who accused him should be locked up!
Such a shame that so many men's lives are ruined by liars.
It's much more of a shame that so many womens' lives are ruined by r*pists.
How many women do you know who have been r*ped? I know at least two (others may have been and not told me, obviously) and I'm not that unusual. Neither of them saw their r*pist charged.
Now; how many men do you know who a)have been falsely accused of sexual assault by women and of those b)how many have had anything happen?"
Ever hear the old saying of 2 wrongs don't make a right
I agree about wage gap stuff being a myth. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %
Not for the same work I've just read online we dont have all the data on pay yet .
Private and public sector employers with 250 or more employees will be required to publish their figures by April 2018. The regulations will cover approximately 9,000 employers with over 15 million employees, representing nearly half of the UK’s workforce.
But again that won't achieve anything because the data is simply divided by gender.
We already know the average woman earns less than the average man. This is undisputed. But we also know the average woman has fewer years experience, is more likely to work part time and is less likely to do a dangerous job. This is why the gap is statistically insignificant when you compare like for like, which those figures won't. As part of the new regulations, employers will be required to:
Publish their median gender pay gap figures
By identifying the wage of the middle earner, the median is the best representation of the ‘typical’ gender difference. Employers will be asked to use data from a ‘snapshot’ period in April to calculate this average.
Publish their mean gender pay gap figures
By taking into account the full earnings distribution, the mean takes into account the low and high earners in an organisation – this is particularly useful as women are often over-represented at the low earning extreme and men are over-represented at the high earning extreme.
Publish the proportion of men & women in each quartile of the pay structure.
This data will show the spread of male and female earners across an organisation, helping to show employers where women’s progress might be stalling so they can take action to support their career development.
Publish the gender pay gaps for any bonuses paid out during the year
As there is a significant issue around bonus payments in some sectors, employers will also have to publish the proportion of male and proportion of female employees that received a bonus during the year.
Again, meaningless data for the reasons already stated. There's no value in apples and oranges comparisons. "
Why has goverment decideded it needs this data if its meaningless.Why is it an issue for the goverment ?.I dont buy into your dismissive stance on the gender pay gap.I'll wait for the data.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"I agree there is some work to be done in some of those areas, but which policies of the greens mentioned above you actually disagree with?
Boards should be free to hire people on merit, not forced to hire 40% women if there are no women that are right for the role available. There's no drive to ensure 40% of nursery teachers are men. Why the focus on women's equality? Either both, or neither - or you're sexist. Simple as that.
The domestic abuse policy aimed at women. It should be gender neutral.
Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.
The whole manifesto just reeks of sexism.
Ok well let's look at them one at a time then, if we look at the asylum seeker one one, how many men suffer from FGM? Or forced marriage?
Even by your standards thats stupid. You do know what FGM is an acronym of don't you? That will answer that question. Men and women can suffer from a forced marriage to imply otherwise is sexist. Are you adding sexism to your racism?
Anyhoo, not my argument so slipping away quietly again
I know what FGM stands for, the policy that the OP is objecting too is that FGM be taken into account in asylum case. The OP is saying that this policy should also apply to men. So how many men suffer from female genital mutilation? Simple question, even you should be able to answer that one.
Told you, not my argument. I merely pointed out the stupidity of your question to someone else asking them how many men suffer from FGM. You asked it, not me. Don't try and spin it the other way, everyone can read it for themself.
Right, my question is stupid, but the person who says that an FGM policy should apply to men isn't stupid.
Told you, not my argument. Although after a quick flick through the thread you seem to be the first person to mention FGM so not too sure who the other person is you refer to. I know someone mentions domestic abuse towards women making the point men can suffer it too, which is a reasonable comment.
Anyway just to make sure you understand, as we all know you struggle with comprehension, not my argument. I'm going to toodle off now, play nicely xx
This is from bobbangs:
"* Institute an asylum policy that in particular recognizes the potential risks to, and needs of, women seeking asylum, including issues of forced marriage, female genital mutilation and domestic violence."
Then the OP said:
"Ditto the policy about asylum seekers. Again it's sexist being aimed only at women initially.""
Comprehension dear man;
1. Not my argument
2. 'including'
3. Not my argument
ttfn xx |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8YoThe government says its 18.1 %
Not for the same work I've just read online we dont have all the data on pay yet .
Private and public sector employers with 250 or more employees will be required to publish their figures by April 2018. The regulations will cover approximately 9,000 employers with over 15 million employees, representing nearly half of the UK’s workforce.
But again that won't achieve anything because the data is simply divided by gender.
We already know the average woman earns less than the average man. This is undisputed. But we also know the average woman has fewer years experience, is more likely to work part time and is less likely to do a dangerous job. This is why the gap is statistically insignificant when you compare like for like, which those figures won't. As part of the new regulations, employers will be required to:
Publish their median gender pay gap figures
By identifying the wage of the middle earner, the median is the best representation of the ‘typical’ gender difference. Employers will be asked to use data from a ‘snapshot’ period in April to calculate this average.
Publish their mean gender pay gap figures
By taking into account the full earnings distribution, the mean takes into account the low and high earners in an organisation – this is particularly useful as women are often over-represented at the low earning extreme and men are over-represented at the high earning extreme.
Publish the proportion of men & women in each quartile of the pay structure.
This data will show the spread of male and female earners across an organisation, helping to show employers where women’s progress might be stalling so they can take action to support their career development.
Publish the gender pay gaps for any bonuses paid out during the year
As there is a significant issue around bonus payments in some sectors, employers will also have to publish the proportion of male and proportion of female employees that received a bonus during the year.
Again, meaningless data for the reasons already stated. There's no value in apples and oranges comparisons. Why has goverment decideded it needs this data if its meaningless.Why is it an issue for the goverment ?.I dont buy into your dismissive stance on the gender pay gap.I'll wait for the data.. "
You'd have to ask the government why they do a lot of stupid stuff. I only have facts and logic at my disposal. Nobody has offered any logic as why you would expect men and women to be paid ~20% different for the same work and how this situation could persist despite being illegal. |
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"It's not for the same work... 20% Like for like role and e pertence adjusted?
I doubt it "
Dont just doubt it, it's a statistical fact that the gap is statistically insignificant when you control for those factors which any sensible analysis would. Otherwise it's like complaining that women in porn earn more than men and pretending they are both doing the same job. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It's not for the same work... 20% Like for like role and e pertence adjusted?
I doubt it
Dont just doubt it, it's a statistical fact that the gap is statistically insignificant when you control for those factors which any sensible analysis would. Otherwise it's like complaining that women in porn earn more than men and pretending they are both doing the same job. "
While there are exceptions of course, the media is tricking us into thinking that women are systematically underpaid.
#pointlessgenderwar |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"?
The wage gap and a patriarchal society are a myth?
The fact that so much sexual assault by men goes unreported through fear is much more of a concern to me than the odd occasion where Ched Evans is let off....
Feminists are doing a good job if they are pressuring men into actually considering their actions.
"
Just thinking about this.
The insidious part is associating pay with sexual assault when they are entirely separate from each other.
"if you are not with us (feminism) on "women's issues" then you support violence" is the message
|
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"It's not for the same work... 20% Like for like role and e pertence adjusted?
I doubt it
Dont just doubt it, it's a statistical fact that the gap is statistically insignificant when you control for those factors which any sensible analysis would. Otherwise it's like complaining that women in porn earn more than men and pretending they are both doing the same job.
While there are exceptions of course, the media is tricking us into thinking that women are systematically underpaid.
#pointlessgenderwar"
Sometimes smart people will believe dumb shit if it fits a broader narrative they want to believe in. Dumb people believe whatever the last person said and then there are those of us who go with the evidence. Can't say that personally the media has ever tricked me into believing anything false in recent years, i find their logical flaws quite easy to spot |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo"
Got anything better than a YouTube video? Like a paper in a journal or other properly evidenced research?
|
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo
Got anything better than a YouTube video? Like a paper in a journal or other properly evidenced research?
"
That's what the video is about if you watch it. The guy talking is economics professor Thomas Sowell who was at UCLA when he published the paper he refers to. What can you show me that proves the gender pay gap exists when controlling for job type and levels of experience? |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo
Got anything better than a YouTube video? Like a paper in a journal or other properly evidenced research?
That's what the video is about if you watch it. The guy talking is economics professor Thomas Sowell who was at UCLA when he published the paper he refers to. What can you show me that proves the gender pay gap exists when controlling for job type and levels of experience? "
There is plenty of research suggesting gaps do exist, as I'm sure you're aware. I was asking as I'd like to get a sense of both sides of the argument. I'm not ideologically wedded to either side, but a lot of people are motivated by personal politics (and the guy in the video appears to be pretty right wing), so it's difficult to find properly unbiased research. |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo
Got anything better than a YouTube video? Like a paper in a journal or other properly evidenced research?
That's what the video is about if you watch it. The guy talking is economics professor Thomas Sowell who was at UCLA when he published the paper he refers to. What can you show me that proves the gender pay gap exists when controlling for job type and levels of experience?
There is plenty of research suggesting gaps do exist, as I'm sure you're aware. I was asking as I'd like to get a sense of both sides of the argument. I'm not ideologically wedded to either side, but a lot of people are motivated by personal politics (and the guy in the video appears to be pretty right wing), so it's difficult to find properly unbiased research. "
Sorry there's no evidence gaps exist for the same work. Nobody has ever shown this because it doesn't exist. Every developed country has laws making that illegal and then there's the blindly obvious, why not have a company run exclusively by women then. Everyone knows women do earn less than men on average, nobody disputes that, but not on a like for like basis. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo
Got anything better than a YouTube video? Like a paper in a journal or other properly evidenced research?
That's what the video is about if you watch it. The guy talking is economics professor Thomas Sowell who was at UCLA when he published the paper he refers to. What can you show me that proves the gender pay gap exists when controlling for job type and levels of experience? "
How about professional sport? |
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"
The idea that women get paid ~20% less for doing the same work as men is a myth that has been statistically debunked many times.
Any examples of this debunking?
https://youtu.be/QZho1k7-8Yo
Got anything better than a YouTube video? Like a paper in a journal or other properly evidenced research?
That's what the video is about if you watch it. The guy talking is economics professor Thomas Sowell who was at UCLA when he published the paper he refers to. What can you show me that proves the gender pay gap exists when controlling for job type and levels of experience?
How about professional sport? "
Honestly you know the answer to that already. Why do you do a disservice to yourself like that. Why do you think female pornstars earn more than male ones? |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
|
"How about professional sport? "
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples. |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples."
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea! |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples."
So you are saying it has nothing to do with a woman's achievements, nothing to do with a woman's qualifications, and nothing to do with her experience then? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples."
. But but but oppression but but but outrage but but but the patriarchy |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!"
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
|
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
So you are saying it has nothing to do with a woman's achievements, nothing to do with a woman's qualifications, and nothing to do with her experience then? "
Sport is an outlier.
Pay seems to be controlled by the popularity of the sport and thus advertising etc. Revenue
A world champion in table tennis has put in comparable time and effort to reach comparable achievement... World class status but gets a pittance of a golfer or soccer player makes.
Nothing to do with genitals.
On financial and political matters you are usually much more objective. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
"
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more? |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"And no, surpressing male sexuality as in feminists want all men to be metrosexual, tamed, cuckolded wimps "
Translation: feminists want sex to be consented to by all parties, and don't consider men's natural state to be an inability to contrl their sexual impulses. (Well, maybe there's one or two lke Bindel)
Tell me about issues affecting men, and what helpful solutions MRAs have to offer, other than telling them they need to "man up"? |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more? "
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise. "
And is the individual woman in control of that? |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?"
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it? "
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal. |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal. "
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships? |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships? "
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different. |
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or View forums list | |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different. "
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task. "
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs? |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs? "
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy? |
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"That's where you are emerging... It's called the patriarchy. It's a secret gang who conspire to make things shit for women "
Fucking serves them right for the matriarchy that conspires to keep male models and porn actors earning less, that wants to prevent a gender balance in professions like teachering and vets. They clearly control the legal system because women must get away with murder since over 95% of murder convictions are men. Don't even get me started on custody battles... |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly so"
Actually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs?
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy? "
Does the guy in McDonald's that sells 20 burgers an hour get the same wage as the person who sells 25 burgers an hour? Yes. Their input is the same.
Does the teacher with 100% pass rate get paid the same as the teacher with a 85% pass rate get paid the same? Yes.
Does the police officer who arrests 10 people a week get the same as the officer who arrest 5 a week? Yes.
Does the soldier who shoots 6 Taliban get the same as the soldier who shoots 9? Yes.
You are naive if you believe that pay is directly linked to output in every situation, and you are also naive to believe that men and women get paid the same when you have stated multiple examples where they are paid differently. |
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"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly soActually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3. "
And ronda rousey makes the top 10 best paid UFC fighters too so women in sport that people actually want to watch do just fine. Funny old thing capitalism... |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs?
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy?
Does the guy in McDonald's that sells 20 burgers an hour get the same wage as the person who sells 25 burgers an hour? Yes. Their input is the same.
Does the teacher with 100% pass rate get paid the same as the teacher with a 85% pass rate get paid the same? Yes.
Does the police officer who arrests 10 people a week get the same as the officer who arrest 5 a week? Yes.
Does the soldier who shoots 6 Taliban get the same as the soldier who shoots 9? Yes.
You are naive if you believe that pay is directly linked to output in every situation, and you are also naive to believe that men and women get paid the same when you have stated multiple examples where they are paid differently. "
The flaws in that are blindly obvious. I only debate to the point the average intelligent reader would see who is correct so it's over from my side. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly soActually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3.
And ronda rousey makes the top 10 best paid UFC fighters too so women in sport that people actually want to watch do just fine. Funny old thing capitalism... "
UFC is predominantly watched by men as is porn.Thats only half the demographic.Flawed analysis. |
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"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly soActually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3.
And ronda rousey makes the top 10 best paid UFC fighters too so women in sport that people actually want to watch do just fine. Funny old thing capitalism... UFC is predominantly watched by men as is porn.Thats only half the demographic.Flawed analysis. "
Only essential goods have 50:50 balance between consumers, fashion is pretty female dominated is it not and female fashion models earn consoderably more than men. |
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By *rp861Man
over a year ago
devizes |
"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly soActually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3.
And ronda rousey makes the top 10 best paid UFC fighters too so women in sport that people actually want to watch do just fine. Funny old thing capitalism... UFC is predominantly watched by men as is porn.Thats only half the demographic.Flawed analysis.
Only essential goods have 50:50 balance between consumers, fashion is pretty female dominated is it not and female fashion models earn consoderably more than men. "
Jobs like modelling and sports are paid based on how much potential income you generate, and also the terms the agents negotiate before contracts are signed. Women buy more fashion items than men, so the right female model for a campaign can command a higher price than a man.
As with sports, if a ufc fighter had massive support, male or female, then UFC will benefit from more ticket sales ppv, merchandise etc. So whether male or female they command a higher price. You cant really put these jobs into the gender wage gap argument as the money earned is based on potential revenue benefit. |
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"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly soActually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3.
And ronda rousey makes the top 10 best paid UFC fighters too so women in sport that people actually want to watch do just fine. Funny old thing capitalism... UFC is predominantly watched by men as is porn.Thats only half the demographic.Flawed analysis.
Only essential goods have 50:50 balance between consumers, fashion is pretty female dominated is it not and female fashion models earn consoderably more than men.
Jobs like modelling and sports are paid based on how much potential income you generate, and also the terms the agents negotiate before contracts are signed. Women buy more fashion items than men, so the right female model for a campaign can command a higher price than a man.
As with sports, if a ufc fighter had massive support, male or female, then UFC will benefit from more ticket sales ppv, merchandise etc. So whether male or female they command a higher price. You cant really put these jobs into the gender wage gap argument as the money earned is based on potential revenue benefit."
All non-government jobs are linked to the potential revenue benefit as no company can sustainably employ people that cost more to employ than they bring in. The relationship is just more obvious in sports. |
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By *rp861Man
over a year ago
devizes |
"Case closed... Simple Economics female porn stars get paid more than male porn stars
Rightly soActually two male porn stars make the top 10 high earners.Peter north is at number 3.
And ronda rousey makes the top 10 best paid UFC fighters too so women in sport that people actually want to watch do just fine. Funny old thing capitalism... UFC is predominantly watched by men as is porn.Thats only half the demographic.Flawed analysis.
Only essential goods have 50:50 balance between consumers, fashion is pretty female dominated is it not and female fashion models earn consoderably more than men.
Jobs like modelling and sports are paid based on how much potential income you generate, and also the terms the agents negotiate before contracts are signed. Women buy more fashion items than men, so the right female model for a campaign can command a higher price than a man.
As with sports, if a ufc fighter had massive support, male or female, then UFC will benefit from more ticket sales ppv, merchandise etc. So whether male or female they command a higher price. You cant really put these jobs into the gender wage gap argument as the money earned is based on potential revenue benefit.
All non-government jobs are linked to the potential revenue benefit as no company can sustainably employ people that cost more to employ than they bring in. The relationship is just more obvious in sports. "
Yes, so if the stakes are higher and more money is involved it still has nothing to do with gender, only potential outcome.
Also my 2 cents on the 40% of boards have to be women this is BS. People should be employed only on merits and not to meet quotas. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
It will be hard to find the women that want to fill 40 percent of boards.
Most Women are smarter than wasting their lives in the pursuit corporate success and wealth.
Men are much more afflicted with that type breed of egotisticism |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs?
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy?
Does the guy in McDonald's that sells 20 burgers an hour get the same wage as the person who sells 25 burgers an hour? Yes. Their input is the same.
Does the teacher with 100% pass rate get paid the same as the teacher with a 85% pass rate get paid the same? Yes.
Does the police officer who arrests 10 people a week get the same as the officer who arrest 5 a week? Yes.
Does the soldier who shoots 6 Taliban get the same as the soldier who shoots 9? Yes.
You are naive if you believe that pay is directly linked to output in every situation, and you are also naive to believe that men and women get paid the same when you have stated multiple examples where they are paid differently.
The flaws in that are blindly obvious. I only debate to the point the average intelligent reader would see who is correct so it's over from my side. "
Yup, any average intelligent reader knows that men and women aren't paid the same. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs?
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy?
Does the guy in McDonald's that sells 20 burgers an hour get the same wage as the person who sells 25 burgers an hour? Yes. Their input is the same.
Does the teacher with 100% pass rate get paid the same as the teacher with a 85% pass rate get paid the same? Yes.
Does the police officer who arrests 10 people a week get the same as the officer who arrest 5 a week? Yes.
Does the soldier who shoots 6 Taliban get the same as the soldier who shoots 9? Yes.
You are naive if you believe that pay is directly linked to output in every situation, and you are also naive to believe that men and women get paid the same when you have stated multiple examples where they are paid differently.
The flaws in that are blindly obvious. I only debate to the point the average intelligent reader would see who is correct so it's over from my side.
Yup, any average intelligent reader knows that men and women aren't paid the same. "
Show me any quote on the thread where i said they were |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
Yup, any average intelligent reader knows that men and women aren't paid the same. "
Only if they are averagely intelligent... There are factors to consider
As reflected by the data |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs?
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy?
Does the guy in McDonald's that sells 20 burgers an hour get the same wage as the person who sells 25 burgers an hour? Yes. Their input is the same.
Does the teacher with 100% pass rate get paid the same as the teacher with a 85% pass rate get paid the same? Yes.
Does the police officer who arrests 10 people a week get the same as the officer who arrest 5 a week? Yes.
Does the soldier who shoots 6 Taliban get the same as the soldier who shoots 9? Yes.
You are naive if you believe that pay is directly linked to output in every situation, and you are also naive to believe that men and women get paid the same when you have stated multiple examples where they are paid differently.
The flaws in that are blindly obvious. I only debate to the point the average intelligent reader would see who is correct so it's over from my side.
Yup, any average intelligent reader knows that men and women aren't paid the same.
Show me any quote on the thread where i said they were "
You said there is equality [of pay], but there isn't. |
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"How about professional sport?
More people are interested in and watch professional mens sport, so it gets more revenue in advertising and endorsements. So the players get paid more.
Oranges and apples.
Unless you consider that a league two footballer should be paid the same as a premier league footballer because they both do the same job. Hopefully nobody thinks that's a good idea!
A brilliant and perfectly logical rebuttal
Well there you are comparing one person at the top of their profession vs someone not at the top of their profession.
I am talking about the best female sports person, vs the best male sports person. Who will get paid more?
The one who sells the most tickets, advertising, sponsorship and merchandise.
And is the individual woman in control of that?
To the same extent a male pornstar or fashion model is of their earnings. There's two irrelevant points I've humored you on, are you actually convinced by your own arguement or you just trying to string one along? If you owned yeovil town football club, would you be paying the ladies (who play in their top division) more or the same as the men who play in league two? If so, how would you fund it?
I don't understand how you can say that there is equality of male and female pay when you have just given 3 examples of industries where it isn't equal.
There is equality when the work is equal, it's called and apples and apples comparison. You do understand women earn more than men in porn and modelling right? Can you suggest how the scenario would be otherwise and how you would pay Yeovil Town ladies the same as the Manchester United first team since they are both in their premierships?
The work of a female and male footballer is the same, the work of a male and female model is the same, the work of an actor or actress is the same. Their salaries however are different.
So if it's the same why can't you propose a viable model for paying them to same. If the work creates the same value then you shouldn't have any difficulty with the task.
So now you are changing it from inputs to outputs?
Sorry when was capitalism ever about inputs? Are you honestly that dumb you don't know what a proxy is? I know everyone gets a trophy for taking part at school but in the real world you need to produce something people want. Gonna answer my question anytime soon or can we safely assume that women footballers aren't victims of a mass conspiracy?
Does the guy in McDonald's that sells 20 burgers an hour get the same wage as the person who sells 25 burgers an hour? Yes. Their input is the same.
Does the teacher with 100% pass rate get paid the same as the teacher with a 85% pass rate get paid the same? Yes.
Does the police officer who arrests 10 people a week get the same as the officer who arrest 5 a week? Yes.
Does the soldier who shoots 6 Taliban get the same as the soldier who shoots 9? Yes.
You are naive if you believe that pay is directly linked to output in every situation, and you are also naive to believe that men and women get paid the same when you have stated multiple examples where they are paid differently.
The flaws in that are blindly obvious. I only debate to the point the average intelligent reader would see who is correct so it's over from my side.
Yup, any average intelligent reader knows that men and women aren't paid the same.
Show me any quote on the thread where i said they were
You said there is equality [of pay], but there isn't."
No i said very clearly and many many times, women do earn less than men but not when you compare like for like work. I find it impossible that you don't know this by now and you are just trying to misquote me. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
This is taken from the equality and human rights commission:
Under the Equality Act 2010 (the Act) employees are legally entitled to equal pay with a person of the opposite sex where they are in the same employment and doing equal work.
There are three kinds of equal work:
like work - this is where the works involves similar tasks which require similar skills, and any differences in the work are not of practical importance. For example, a woman cook preparing lunches for directors and a male chef cooking breakfast, lunch and tea for employees
work rated as equivalent - this is where the work has been rated under a fair job evaluation scheme as being of equal value in terms of how demanding it is. For example, the work of an occupational health nurse might be rated as equivalent to that of a production supervisor when components of the job such as skill, responsibility and effort are assessed by a fair job evaluation scheme,
work of equal value - this is work which is not similar and has not been rated as equivalent, but is of equal value in terms of demands such as effort, skill and decision-making. eg a clerical assistant and a warehouse operative.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
The above make a little sense... Nurse and production supervisor are too far about to be considered like work
All jobs require skill responsibility and effort |
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