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Brexit negotiations starts today
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"Can you post in the right section next time please shag" I know, thought we get more of a different view in the lounge. | |||
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"Not really any negotiations to do. We triggered article 50 so we have no choice but to accept whatever they offer. All we can do by way of negotiation is beg them to go easy on us. The crux of the matter is that we must leave the EU now we triggered article 50, and the EU can set the terms of the exit. These terms are likely to include a hefty exit fee, free movement of people and if we want to do any kind of trade within the EU a hefty annual subscription. Essentially we will be bound exactly as we are, but have no negotiating power within the EU, no longer be eligible for any EU grants and have to pay a hefty fee to leave. The worst of both." There is no such thing as an exit fee or a divorce bill. The right wing press will label it as such in order to stoke division and a hatred of the EU. The facts of this situation are very simple. The UK has opted to leave and in order to do so they must first agree to settle all all the outstanding commitments that as members they were signed up to. This is neither a bill, nor a fee. | |||
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"Not really any negotiations to do. We triggered article 50 so we have no choice but to accept whatever they offer. All we can do by way of negotiation is beg them to go easy on us. The crux of the matter is that we must leave the EU now we triggered article 50, and the EU can set the terms of the exit. These terms are likely to include a hefty exit fee, free movement of people and if we want to do any kind of trade within the EU a hefty annual subscription. Essentially we will be bound exactly as we are, but have no negotiating power within the EU, no longer be eligible for any EU grants and have to pay a hefty fee to leave. The worst of both. There is no such thing as an exit fee or a divorce bill. The right wing press will label it as such in order to stoke division and a hatred of the EU. The facts of this situation are very simple. The UK has opted to leave and in order to do so they must first agree to settle all all the outstanding commitments that as members they were signed up to. This is neither a bill, nor a fee. " Article 50 was rushed through and hastily incorporated into the EU treaty without any member state ever expecting it to be used. As such any kind of exit is left very vague in the document. While there is no mention of an exit fee, neither does it state there is no exit fee. The EU have pretty much a blank sheet of paper with our signature on which they can put almost any constraints they feel like. Hence we are not at a negotiating table, but begging for their mercy. | |||
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"Not really any negotiations to do. We triggered article 50 so we have no choice but to accept whatever they offer. All we can do by way of negotiation is beg them to go easy on us. The crux of the matter is that we must leave the EU now we triggered article 50, and the EU can set the terms of the exit. These terms are likely to include a hefty exit fee, free movement of people and if we want to do any kind of trade within the EU a hefty annual subscription. Essentially we will be bound exactly as we are, but have no negotiating power within the EU, no longer be eligible for any EU grants and have to pay a hefty fee to leave. The worst of both. There is no such thing as an exit fee or a divorce bill. The right wing press will label it as such in order to stoke division and a hatred of the EU. The facts of this situation are very simple. The UK has opted to leave and in order to do so they must first agree to settle all all the outstanding commitments that as members they were signed up to. This is neither a bill, nor a fee. " That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for. | |||
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" That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for." Well a huge part of the fee is pensions for British staff and how exactly will you be allowed access to all projects? Is the UK going to demand a few rooms in the EU headquarters? If they build a road in Italy does the UK get to use every 28th kilometre? Your government committed to spending money and now theyve decided they dont want the benefit of that anymore. If you didnt want to lose out on that money then you should have been more organised in leaving. This is like calling a hotel 5 minutes before check in and saying you dont want the room anymore and then complaining that you have to pay anyway. | |||
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" That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for. Well a huge part of the fee is pensions for British staff and how exactly will you be allowed access to all projects? Is the UK going to demand a few rooms in the EU headquarters? If they build a road in Italy does the UK get to use every 28th kilometre? Your government committed to spending money and now theyve decided they dont want the benefit of that anymore. If you didnt want to lose out on that money then you should have been more organised in leaving. This is like calling a hotel 5 minutes before check in and saying you dont want the room anymore and then complaining that you have to pay anyway." He clearly said 'projects' so I take it he was referring to EU projects like Horizon 20 and Erasmus which Brexiters like Daniel Hannan have said the UK may want to remain involved with and continue to contribute to in terms of small payments. Large budget payments to the EU from the UK will stop after we leave, you will have to scrape the money from elsewhere, maybe Rep. of Ireland will be asked for a bigger contribution fee once the UK leaves eh? There are many other such projects in the EU like Erasmus and Horizon 20, some the UK may want to continue to contribute to and others the UK may not. At least understand basic English comprehension before you go off on a rant about roads in Italy and other such nonsense. | |||
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" That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for. Well a huge part of the fee is pensions for British staff and how exactly will you be allowed access to all projects? Is the UK going to demand a few rooms in the EU headquarters? If they build a road in Italy does the UK get to use every 28th kilometre? Your government committed to spending money and now theyve decided they dont want the benefit of that anymore. If you didnt want to lose out on that money then you should have been more organised in leaving. This is like calling a hotel 5 minutes before check in and saying you dont want the room anymore and then complaining that you have to pay anyway. He clearly said 'projects' so I take it he was referring to EU projects like Horizon 20 and Erasmus which Brexiters like Daniel Hannan have said the UK may want to remain involved with and continue to contribute to in terms of small payments. Large budget payments to the EU from the UK will stop after we leave, you will have to scrape the money from elsewhere, maybe Rep. of Ireland will be asked for a bigger contribution fee once the UK leaves eh? There are many other such projects in the EU like Erasmus and Horizon 20, some the UK may want to continue to contribute to and others the UK may not. At least understand basic English comprehension before you go off on a rant about roads in Italy and other such nonsense. " Well Erasmus and Horizon 20 are two that the EU may allow you to participate in. Or they may not. They're under no obligation to do it, it will be part of the negotiations. Just like the payment will be. And roads do form part of the EU spend and the poster said "ALL projects" not some. And considering your failure to comprehend Davis' stance on negotiating the timetable of talks I wouldnt go criticising anyone else right now  | |||
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" That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for. Well a huge part of the fee is pensions for British staff and how exactly will you be allowed access to all projects? Is the UK going to demand a few rooms in the EU headquarters? If they build a road in Italy does the UK get to use every 28th kilometre? Your government committed to spending money and now theyve decided they dont want the benefit of that anymore. If you didnt want to lose out on that money then you should have been more organised in leaving. This is like calling a hotel 5 minutes before check in and saying you dont want the room anymore and then complaining that you have to pay anyway. He clearly said 'projects' so I take it he was referring to EU projects like Horizon 20 and Erasmus which Brexiters like Daniel Hannan have said the UK may want to remain involved with and continue to contribute to in terms of small payments. Large budget payments to the EU from the UK will stop after we leave, you will have to scrape the money from elsewhere, maybe Rep. of Ireland will be asked for a bigger contribution fee once the UK leaves eh? There are many other such projects in the EU like Erasmus and Horizon 20, some the UK may want to continue to contribute to and others the UK may not. At least understand basic English comprehension before you go off on a rant about roads in Italy and other such nonsense. Well Erasmus and Horizon 20 are two that the EU may allow you to participate in. Or they may not. They're under no obligation to do it, it will be part of the negotiations. Just like the payment will be. And roads do form part of the EU spend and the poster said "ALL projects" not some. And considering your failure to comprehend Davis' stance on negotiating the timetable of talks I wouldnt go criticising anyone else right now "If the EU don't want the UK to continue to contribute towards a limited number of projects like Erasmus and Horizon 20 then that's fine with me, the UK will save more money and the EU will have to accept those projects will be less well funded in future without the UK's contributions. | |||
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" That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for. Well a huge part of the fee is pensions for British staff and how exactly will you be allowed access to all projects? Is the UK going to demand a few rooms in the EU headquarters? If they build a road in Italy does the UK get to use every 28th kilometre? Your government committed to spending money and now theyve decided they dont want the benefit of that anymore. If you didnt want to lose out on that money then you should have been more organised in leaving. This is like calling a hotel 5 minutes before check in and saying you dont want the room anymore and then complaining that you have to pay anyway. He clearly said 'projects' so I take it he was referring to EU projects like Horizon 20 and Erasmus which Brexiters like Daniel Hannan have said the UK may want to remain involved with and continue to contribute to in terms of small payments. Large budget payments to the EU from the UK will stop after we leave, you will have to scrape the money from elsewhere, maybe Rep. of Ireland will be asked for a bigger contribution fee once the UK leaves eh? There are many other such projects in the EU like Erasmus and Horizon 20, some the UK may want to continue to contribute to and others the UK may not. At least understand basic English comprehension before you go off on a rant about roads in Italy and other such nonsense. Well Erasmus and Horizon 20 are two that the EU may allow you to participate in. Or they may not. They're under no obligation to do it, it will be part of the negotiations. Just like the payment will be. And roads do form part of the EU spend and the poster said "ALL projects" not some. And considering your failure to comprehend Davis' stance on negotiating the timetable of talks I wouldnt go criticising anyone else right now
If the EU don't want the UK to continue to contribute towards a limited number of projects like Erasmus and Horizon 20 then that's fine with me, the UK will save more money and the EU will have to accept those projects will be less well funded in future without the UK's contributions. "...and the UK will have to accept that it won't get the benefit of these projects. -Matt | |||
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"This is all part of negotiation. I've seen various EU projects that we contribute to.....from satellites in space to nuclear waste disposal. If we are expected to honour our signature on contracts, then I expect us to have access to such projects, until we reach the date specified on the said contract. If we have signed up to a project, paying x, until 2025, then we pay but still retain access. Legally we will honour our pension rights, although I've seen various reports of people like Nigel Farage taking a pension of £8k per month, when they take retirement. A case of acceptable legally but morally corrupt! " I wonder if those contracts explicitly state that EU membership is required to be maintained during the contract? I know that business contracts that I've done often have stipulations in that certain association memberships or insurances need to be maintained during the contract, and that letting them lapse or cancelling them would be deemed a breach of the contract. -Matt | |||
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"This is all part of negotiation. I've seen various EU projects that we contribute to.....from satellites in space to nuclear waste disposal. If we are expected to honour our signature on contracts, then I expect us to have access to such projects, until we reach the date specified on the said contract. If we have signed up to a project, paying x, until 2025, then we pay but still retain access. Legally we will honour our pension rights, although I've seen various reports of people like Nigel Farage taking a pension of £8k per month, when they take retirement. A case of acceptable legally but morally corrupt! I wonder if those contracts explicitly state that EU membership is required to be maintained during the contract? I know that business contracts that I've done often have stipulations in that certain association memberships or insurances need to be maintained during the contract, and that letting them lapse or cancelling them would be deemed a breach of the contract. -Matt " Not sure on that. But surely breach of contract is exactly that, and works both ways. The one that caught my eye was nuclear waste processing. I believe that we have the only facility in Europe, so not sure how it's all going to pan out on that. | |||
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"This is all part of negotiation. I've seen various EU projects that we contribute to.....from satellites in space to nuclear waste disposal. If we are expected to honour our signature on contracts, then I expect us to have access to such projects, until we reach the date specified on the said contract. If we have signed up to a project, paying x, until 2025, then we pay but still retain access. Legally we will honour our pension rights, although I've seen various reports of people like Nigel Farage taking a pension of £8k per month, when they take retirement. A case of acceptable legally but morally corrupt! I wonder if those contracts explicitly state that EU membership is required to be maintained during the contract? I know that business contracts that I've done often have stipulations in that certain association memberships or insurances need to be maintained during the contract, and that letting them lapse or cancelling them would be deemed a breach of the contract. -Matt " Well essentially the negotiations are about ending the legal agreements between the EU and UK so everythings up for debate right now. | |||
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"This is all part of negotiation. I've seen various EU projects that we contribute to.....from satellites in space to nuclear waste disposal. If we are expected to honour our signature on contracts, then I expect us to have access to such projects, until we reach the date specified on the said contract. If we have signed up to a project, paying x, until 2025, then we pay but still retain access. Legally we will honour our pension rights, although I've seen various reports of people like Nigel Farage taking a pension of £8k per month, when they take retirement. A case of acceptable legally but morally corrupt! I wonder if those contracts explicitly state that EU membership is required to be maintained during the contract? I know that business contracts that I've done often have stipulations in that certain association memberships or insurances need to be maintained during the contract, and that letting them lapse or cancelling them would be deemed a breach of the contract. -Matt Not sure on that. But surely breach of contract is exactly that, and works both ways. The one that caught my eye was nuclear waste processing. I believe that we have the only facility in Europe, so not sure how it's all going to pan out on that." That one seems quite simple..... we process their waste. They pay us to do so. So that part of the negotiations takes about 12 seconds flat. Erasmus is a student exchange scheme between universities in different countries. (Not just in the EU). The biggest problem I see with this is that we include students in our immigration figures. If we go like the rest of the world and issue temporary student visas then this is also an easy fix. If, once graduated, they then have skills we require....then hey! We can decide if we want to let them stay...should they wish to do so, and contribute to our economy. There are lots of "things" but taken on their own most are far less complex than many would have us believe. | |||
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" That is correct. Conversely, the UK must be allowed access to all projects and commitments that it is paying for. Well a huge part of the fee is pensions for British staff and how exactly will you be allowed access to all projects? Is the UK going to demand a few rooms in the EU headquarters? If they build a road in Italy does the UK get to use every 28th kilometre? Your government committed to spending money and now theyve decided they dont want the benefit of that anymore. If you didnt want to lose out on that money then you should have been more organised in leaving. This is like calling a hotel 5 minutes before check in and saying you dont want the room anymore and then complaining that you have to pay anyway. He clearly said 'projects' so I take it he was referring to EU projects like Horizon 20 and Erasmus which Brexiters like Daniel Hannan have said the UK may want to remain involved with and continue to contribute to in terms of small payments. Large budget payments to the EU from the UK will stop after we leave, you will have to scrape the money from elsewhere, maybe Rep. of Ireland will be asked for a bigger contribution fee once the UK leaves eh? There are many other such projects in the EU like Erasmus and Horizon 20, some the UK may want to continue to contribute to and others the UK may not. At least understand basic English comprehension before you go off on a rant about roads in Italy and other such nonsense. Well Erasmus and Horizon 20 are two that the EU may allow you to participate in. Or they may not. They're under no obligation to do it, it will be part of the negotiations. Just like the payment will be. And roads do form part of the EU spend and the poster said "ALL projects" not some. And considering your failure to comprehend Davis' stance on negotiating the timetable of talks I wouldnt go criticising anyone else right now
If the EU don't want the UK to continue to contribute towards a limited number of projects like Erasmus and Horizon 20 then that's fine with me, the UK will save more money and the EU will have to accept those projects will be less well funded in future without the UK's contributions. "Of course it's fine with you, you probably have never been involved with either scheme! | |||
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"Apparently, we hold 130 tons of nuclear waste belonging to Germany, France, Sweden and the Netherlands. The EU is trying to dump ownership of it all on us, making it our responsibility to idea keep it safe. You can only imagine the costs involved here." Yea and who's great idea was that then? And who said Doh yea ok!!! ?  | |||
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"Apparently, we hold 130 tons of nuclear waste belonging to Germany, France, Sweden and the Netherlands. The EU is trying to dump ownership of it all on us, making it our responsibility to keep it safe. You can only imagine the costs involved here." Right, but surely somewhere there is a legal contract that deals with this. We don't do this just because we happen to be in the EU. No doubt the fact we ARE in the EU does help as I'm guessing the contacts and processes depend on certain EU predicates. But I'm wondering if contracts for services like this actually have some kind of clause that explicitly states the EU membership needs to be maintained. As pointed out above, everything is up for negotiation at the moment. And hell, there is a lot to negotiate... really not sure how they are going to get it done in time to be honest. For each example like this, there must be several hundred more. And for each one they will need negotiating, ratifying, etc etc. -Matt | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt" As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people. 
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this. | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this. "A quote from David Davis “How on earth do you resolve the issue of the border with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland unless you know what our general borders policy is, what the customs agreement is, what our trade agreement is?” he told ITV’s Robert Peston. “It’s wholly illogical.” | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this. "Centaur youre just lying now. Youve already seen quotes from Davis saying that it was vital that the issues were done in parrallel. I gave you the benefit last time and said you might just be misinformed but your dishonesty knows no limits. Stop reading the Sun because they lie to you. Then you repeat their nonsense here and look like a fool. Davis said that he would reject any sequencing to the discussions and that to do so would damage the UKs bargaining position. Accept that the Brexit team took its first loss this weekend, because this negoriating team is inept so there are more defeats to come. For example Davis says that the bill to leave (which is in phase 1 of the discussions just like the EU demanded) would be excessive if it was over £1 billion but we all know it will be 50+. Or have you already thought how to spin that as a decisive win for Davis and May? | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this.
Centaur youre just lying now. Youve already seen quotes from Davis saying that it was vital that the issues were done in parrallel. I gave you the benefit last time and said you might just be misinformed but your dishonesty knows no limits.
Stop reading the Sun because they lie to you. Then you repeat their nonsense here and look like a fool.
Davis said that he would reject any sequencing to the discussions and that to do so would damage the UKs bargaining position. Accept that the Brexit team took its first loss this weekend, because this negoriating team is inept so there are more defeats to come.
For example Davis says that the bill to leave (which is in phase 1 of the discussions just like the EU demanded) would be excessive if it was over £1 billion but we all know it will be 50+. Or have you already thought how to spin that as a decisive win for Davis and May?"Your talking to a brick wall talking to that guy.....its clearly obvious to all but Centaur that David Davis is all wind and piss tbh with no firm hand to negotiate with....stable and strong my arse as Jim Royal would say....Mays completely fucked up these talks by putting her own and parties interests before the country but hey ho no surprise there the moron she took over from did the same!!! | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this.
Centaur youre just lying now. Youve already seen quotes from Davis saying that it was vital that the issues were done in parrallel. I gave you the benefit last time and said you might just be misinformed but your dishonesty knows no limits.
Stop reading the Sun because they lie to you. Then you repeat their nonsense here and look like a fool.
Davis said that he would reject any sequencing to the discussions and that to do so would damage the UKs bargaining position. Accept that the Brexit team took its first loss this weekend, because this negoriating team is inept so there are more defeats to come.
For example Davis says that the bill to leave (which is in phase 1 of the discussions just like the EU demanded) would be excessive if it was over £1 billion but we all know it will be 50+. Or have you already thought how to spin that as a decisive win for Davis and May?"Here is a quote from David Davis today...."nothing is agreed until everything is agreed". You can take it from that your so called brexit bill will go up in smoke if the trade talks don't go well later on. Plus rather than plucking figures out of thin air like you are constantly doing on here I will wait and see what the actual real figure is once it's announced. Also David Davis said again today in case any Remoaners are still in denial...We are leaving the single market AND the customs union. The UK's position hasn't changed. The Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond also said this yesterday on the BBC Andrew Marr show. | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this.
Centaur youre just lying now. Youve already seen quotes from Davis saying that it was vital that the issues were done in parrallel. I gave you the benefit last time and said you might just be misinformed but your dishonesty knows no limits.
Stop reading the Sun because they lie to you. Then you repeat their nonsense here and look like a fool.
Davis said that he would reject any sequencing to the discussions and that to do so would damage the UKs bargaining position. Accept that the Brexit team took its first loss this weekend, because this negoriating team is inept so there are more defeats to come.
For example Davis says that the bill to leave (which is in phase 1 of the discussions just like the EU demanded) would be excessive if it was over £1 billion but we all know it will be 50+. Or have you already thought how to spin that as a decisive win for Davis and May?
Here is a quote from David Davis today...."nothing is agreed until everything is agreed". You can take it from that your so called brexit bill will go up in smoke if the trade talks don't go well later on. Plus rather than plucking figures out of thin air like you are constantly doing on here I will wait and see what the actual real figure is once it's announced.
Also David Davis said again today in case any Remoaners are still in denial...We are leaving the single market AND the customs union. The UK's position hasn't changed. The Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond also said this yesterday on the BBC Andrew Marr show. "What about when he said “How on earth do you resolve the issue of the border with Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland unless you know what our general borders policy is, what the customs agreement is, what our trade agreement is?” he told ITV’s Robert Peston. “It’s wholly illogical.” | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this.
Centaur youre just lying now. Youve already seen quotes from Davis saying that it was vital that the issues were done in parrallel. I gave you the benefit last time and said you might just be misinformed but your dishonesty knows no limits.
Stop reading the Sun because they lie to you. Then you repeat their nonsense here and look like a fool.
Davis said that he would reject any sequencing to the discussions and that to do so would damage the UKs bargaining position. Accept that the Brexit team took its first loss this weekend, because this negoriating team is inept so there are more defeats to come.
For example Davis says that the bill to leave (which is in phase 1 of the discussions just like the EU demanded) would be excessive if it was over £1 billion but we all know it will be 50+. Or have you already thought how to spin that as a decisive win for Davis and May?
Your talking to a brick wall talking to that guy.....its clearly obvious to all but Centaur that David Davis is all wind and piss tbh with no firm hand to negotiate with....stable and strong my arse as Jim Royal would say....Mays completely fucked up these talks by putting her own and parties interests before the country but hey ho no surprise there the moron she took over from did the same!!! "Remoaners like you were saying the talks were fucked before the general election was even called, and you're still saying the talks are fucked now. Your position hasn't changed, you are still bitter and you still can't get over the fact that Leave won the referendum. | |||
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"So after Davis insisting that the sequencing of the negotiatons (Davis wanting parallel, EU wanting sequential) was going to be the 'row of the summer', it would appear Davis has capitulated already. Day one. Looks Like he has agreed to the EU timeline. Oh well. -Matt As i already explained the EU timeline as you call it suits the UK just fine. Priority given to sorting out the rights of EU nationals in the uk, and UK nationals in the EU, this was being discussed in the UK as soon as the Brexit vote happened, and the UK tried to get a reciprocal deal done on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered in March but Merkel refused, preferring instead to use EU citizens as political bargaining chips. The EU nationals/UK nationals issue was always a UK priority, its come up in every EU debate in Parliament, and the House of Lords also threw a hissy fit about it during the article 50 vote. Its usually been Remainers moaning about it that they wanted it sorting as soon as possile, but now its been given priority in the negotiations timeline you are still moaning. Really is no pleasing some people.
Next up the border on Northern Ireland, after the result of the general election and the Tories now working closely with the DUP, this is now a great benefit to the uk being a priority in the talks, as the DUP want this dealt with as soon as possible. It would have been more difficult for the tories if this was being dealt with later in the negotiations, they need to keep the DUP on side so the EU has actually done the UK a favour by putting the Northern Ireland border talks as a priority and near the top of the agenda. The DUP will be very happy about this.
Centaur youre just lying now. Youve already seen quotes from Davis saying that it was vital that the issues were done in parrallel. I gave you the benefit last time and said you might just be misinformed but your dishonesty knows no limits.
Stop reading the Sun because they lie to you. Then you repeat their nonsense here and look like a fool.
Davis said that he would reject any sequencing to the discussions and that to do so would damage the UKs bargaining position. Accept that the Brexit team took its first loss this weekend, because this negoriating team is inept so there are more defeats to come.
For example Davis says that the bill to leave (which is in phase 1 of the discussions just like the EU demanded) would be excessive if it was over £1 billion but we all know it will be 50+. Or have you already thought how to spin that as a decisive win for Davis and May?
Your talking to a brick wall talking to that guy.....its clearly obvious to all but Centaur that David Davis is all wind and piss tbh with no firm hand to negotiate with....stable and strong my arse as Jim Royal would say....Mays completely fucked up these talks by putting her own and parties interests before the country but hey ho no surprise there the moron she took over from did the same!!!
Remoaners like you were saying the talks were fucked before the general election was even called, and you're still saying the talks are fucked now. Your position hasn't changed, you are still bitter and you still can't get over the fact that Leave won the referendum. "Im over it....we are leaving end of i accept we are leaving....but the fact is your still using bullshit quotes from the past...personally i think most remainers accept it...its the brexiters that cant seem to stomach that they were wrong and have been fed and swallowed the bullshit and tbh still are | |||
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"Centaur, have you considered trying to get on to the UK's Brexit negotiating team? They could really use someone willing to argue black is white in the face of absolute fact, and spout knowledge-free positivity in the face of certain catastrophic doom. Let's face it, you couldn't do much worse for us than David Davis, and you're a bit younger than him which means you might actually make it to the end of the negotiations. I honestly don't think he's got the stamina to survive the constant humiliation of this process. "Considering David Davis is an ex SAS reservist I've no doubt at all he has the mental and physical stamina needed for this 2 year negotiations period. | |||
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" Here is a quote from David Davis today...."nothing is agreed until everything is agreed". You can take it from that your so called brexit bill will go up in smoke if the trade talks don't go well later on. Plus rather than plucking figures out of thin air like you are constantly doing on here I will wait and see what the actual real figure is once it's announced. Also David Davis said again today in case any Remoaners are still in denial...We are leaving the single market AND the customs union. The UK's position hasn't changed. The Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond also said this yesterday on the BBC Andrew Marr show. " Well is Davis someone whose quotes on the future are to be believed? He said he wouldnt accept anything but parallel talks on all the issues and he caved in. He said he'd walk away from talks if the EU insisted on discussing a bill to be paid by the UK and now its on the agenda. Id be surprised if he could order lunch without backtracking. And there will be an agreement because an agreement will be vital to the survival of the UK. Yes you will be out of the single market and the customs union (Ive only claimed its stupid not that it isnt going to happen) but you will do so with an agreement with the EU because otherwise you'll be in the economic wilderness. https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/uk-australia-trade-deal-is-a-priority-that-makes-no-economic-sense As you can see here the Australians value a deal with the EU more than the UK, as every country will simply because of the size difference. And the Aussies expect their negotiations to last 5 years with the EU and then they'll look at the UK. What you fail to realise is that you wont be out of the single market/customs union for years to come because you have no trade deals of your own and you will never, ever get them done in 22 months. Thats of course if the EU graciously allows you to remain part of it for a few more years until you get yourselves sorted out. | |||
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" Here is a quote from David Davis today...."nothing is agreed until everything is agreed". You can take it from that your so called brexit bill will go up in smoke if the trade talks don't go well later on. Plus rather than plucking figures out of thin air like you are constantly doing on here I will wait and see what the actual real figure is once it's announced. Also David Davis said again today in case any Remoaners are still in denial...We are leaving the single market AND the customs union. The UK's position hasn't changed. The Chancellor of the exchequer Philip Hammond also said this yesterday on the BBC Andrew Marr show. Well is Davis someone whose quotes on the future are to be believed? He said he wouldnt accept anything but parallel talks on all the issues and he caved in. He said he'd walk away from talks if the EU insisted on discussing a bill to be paid by the UK and now its on the agenda. Id be surprised if he could order lunch without backtracking. And there will be an agreement because an agreement will be vital to the survival of the UK. Yes you will be out of the single market and the customs union (Ive only claimed its stupid not that it isnt going to happen) but you will do so with an agreement with the EU because otherwise you'll be in the economic wilderness. https://mlexmarketinsight.com/insights-center/editors-picks/brexit/europe/uk-australia-trade-deal-is-a-priority-that-makes-no-economic-sense As you can see here the Australians value a deal with the EU more than the UK, as every country will simply because of the size difference. And the Aussies expect their negotiations to last 5 years with the EU and then they'll look at the UK. What you fail to realise is that you wont be out of the single market/customs union for years to come because you have no trade deals of your own and you will never, ever get them done in 22 months. Thats of course if the EU graciously allows you to remain part of it for a few more years until you get yourselves sorted out. " FFS, how long has the EU been in existence now? Frankly they should have had a trade deal done and dusted with the likes of Australia decades ago but the EU still has diddly squat with Australia. The UK already has countries all over the world queueing up to do trade deals with us once we are out of the EU. International Trade secratary Liam Fox has not been jetting off all over the world for the last 12 months on sight seeing jollies, he has already been putting the vital ground work in as a basis for these new UK trade deals. It's funny to hear Remoaners on here mock and belittle countries like Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru, not so easy to mock countries with huge growing markets that want deals with the UK like USA, China, India and yes Australia is in there too for the record. You also keep harping on about trade deals in terms of years, that is the EU timescale for signing trade deals. It takes the EU that long because it is too big and cumbersome, it takes time for all the member states to agree on the terms while they squabble with each other like rats in a sack, it is inefficient, slow and cumbersome. The UK can do deals much quicker than this on a 1 to 1 country basis and deals can be done in months rather than the years it takes the sloth like EU. Trade deals have been done in months from start to finish between countries outside of the EU so the examples are already there as proof. Sounds to me like you are incredibly jealous of the new opportunities that the UK will be open to once we've left, and you will still be stuck in the EU without a trade deal with Australia, China, India and the USA in 5 years time. | |||
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" FFS, how long has the EU been in existence now? Frankly they should have had a trade deal done and dusted with the likes of Australia decades ago but the EU still has diddly squat with Australia. The UK already has countries all over the world queueing up to do trade deals with us once we are out of the EU. International Trade secratary Liam Fox has not been jetting off all over the world for the last 12 months on sight seeing jollies, he has already been putting the vital ground work in as a basis for these new UK trade deals. It's funny to hear Remoaners on here mock and belittle countries like Bolivia, Ecuador and Peru, not so easy to mock countries with huge growing markets that want deals with the UK like USA, China, India and yes Australia is in there too for the record. You also keep harping on about trade deals in terms of years, that is the EU timescale for signing trade deals. It takes the EU that long because it is too big and cumbersome, it takes time for all the member states to agree on the terms while they squabble with each other like rats in a sack, it is inefficient, slow and cumbersome. The UK can do deals much quicker than this on a 1 to 1 country basis and deals can be done in months rather than the years it takes the sloth like EU. Trade deals have been done in months from start to finish between countries outside of the EU so the examples are already there as proof. Sounds to me like you are incredibly jealous of the new opportunities that the UK will be open to once we've left, and you will still be stuck in the EU without a trade deal with Australia, China, India and the USA in 5 years time. " I swear, correcting the blatant lies you post could be a full time job. The first agreement between the EU and Australia was signed 55 years ago. Over the years many more agreements, not just on trade, have been signed between the 2 but they are looking to increase trade further with a new deal. So they do not have "diddly squat" with Australia youre just completely ignorant of anything to do with the topics of the EU or Brexit. The US took 20 months to negotiate its most recent trade agreement with Canada, thats despite having most of the work done through NAFTA and other previous trade agreements. It took 32 months to get implemented. You have none of those foundations. US Peru: 23 months negotiations, 56 to implmentation US Mexico: 18 and 31 months US Panama: 38 and 102 months The Chinese government say it would take 10 years to negotiate a deal with a post brexit UK http://shanghaiist.com/2016/06/24/china_brexit_response.php The Australian government arent queuing up, theyre focused on the EU deal. It took India and Peru 21 months to agree to the terms of their discussions on a trade agreement http://m.economictimes.com/markets/forex/indian-cabinet-approves-trade-agreement-negotiations-with-peru/articleshow/56649957.cms India and Australia are 6 years into their negotiations of a trade deal between them https://aric.adb.org/fta/india-australia-free-trade-agreement Oh Centaur, why is everything you post lies and so easy to prove wrong? At some point when youre lying in bed at night a thoughts going to creep into your head "Why am I constantly proved wrong??? Why is everything I think about Brexit lies?? Why do they keep pointing it out? Is it possible Brexit isnt the great thing I think it is????" But then you'll liss your Davis picture goodnight and you'll feel better....as long as Davis does the deal he's told to do so that the UK avoids economic meltdown. | |||
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"As I mentioned previously.... trade deals are nothing more than bits of paper. What is important is how Companies use those trade deals and specifically how incentivising would it be, for example - a mid sized manufacturer of replacement vehicle consumables (brake bars, exhausts etc) to stop tooling up to supply replacement parts for cars in France and Belgium and instead compete with American and Mexican component manufacturers to supply South American countries. Our enlightened friend pointed out that perhaps we should not be looking at South America, but at the United States and China... Well I don't see a Coventry based component company selling much into the US or China to be honest. If Brexitet would just agree, just accept that we are going to lose a leg and there will be great pain and disability and a lot of other casualties but over time we will learn to use crutches - their argument would be at least credible. Unfortunately, it isn't credible because their every utterance is based on meaningless sound byte speeches made by people who are in charge of our EU exit but who have proven from day 1 that they know nothing about it." Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves | |||
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"As I mentioned previously.... trade deals are nothing more than bits of paper. What is important is how Companies use those trade deals and specifically how incentivising would it be, for example - a mid sized manufacturer of replacement vehicle consumables (brake bars, exhausts etc) to stop tooling up to supply replacement parts for cars in France and Belgium and instead compete with American and Mexican component manufacturers to supply South American countries. Our enlightened friend pointed out that perhaps we should not be looking at South America, but at the United States and China... Well I don't see a Coventry based component company selling much into the US or China to be honest. If Brexitet would just agree, just accept that we are going to lose a leg and there will be great pain and disability and a lot of other casualties but over time we will learn to use crutches - their argument would be at least credible. Unfortunately, it isn't credible because their every utterance is based on meaningless sound byte speeches made by people who are in charge of our EU exit but who have proven from day 1 that they know nothing about it. Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt | |||
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" Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt" Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. | |||
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" Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. " you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt | |||
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" Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt" What I said was businesses that fail will blame brexit or anything rather than themselves for not adapting. Only time will tell if we are better or worse off, I have said many times and will again the reason I voted out was because I dont want to be part of a united states of europe, that is where the EU want to end up, we see their desire for more and more integration, juncker said a while ago that the response to brexit etc was more europe not less, they want an euro army,one forgeign policy etc, the eu is too vast and far too diverse for it to work at least in our childrens life times, you only have to look at yugoslavia to see how it can go wrong, generations of wars violence and racial and religeous hatred cant be sortedin fifty years, they are moving too fast | |||
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"I agree with mark carney that brexit will make britain poorer." You're not the only one | |||
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"I agree with mark carney that brexit will make britain poorer. You're not the only one " That is good and yes, many think the same. | |||
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" Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt What I said was businesses that fail will blame brexit or anything rather than themselves for not adapting. Only time will tell if we are better or worse off, I have said many times and will again the reason I voted out was because I dont want to be part of a united states of europe, that is where the EU want to end up, we see their desire for more and more integration, juncker said a while ago that the response to brexit etc was more europe not less, they want an euro army,one forgeign policy etc, the eu is too vast and far too diverse for it to work at least in our childrens life times, you only have to look at yugoslavia to see how it can go wrong, generations of wars violence and racial and religeous hatred cant be sortedin fifty years, they are moving too fast " Shame we are leaving and will not have a say or a vote in that 'united states of europe' that scares you so much then. As for "only time will tell if we are better off"... so you would be fine if we, say, bankrupt the country trying to get out, so long as we are out and not a part of the 'ever closer union' then? -Matt | |||
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" ............. the eu is too vast and far too diverse for it to work at least in our childrens life times, you only have to look at yugoslavia to see how it can go wrong, generations of wars violence and racial and religeous hatred cant be sortedin fifty years, they are moving too fast " Ironic that you chose to mention Yugoslavia as was conflict free whilst it was a single federation. It was the loss of that union of of nations that caused the conflicts of the 1990's that still simmer today. The concept of a United States of Europe is fundamentally good and should be applauded - unless you have absolutely no knowledge of history. Good things dont necessarily happen because they are the easiest thing to to, they happen because they are the right thing to do. If you want to know how division and hatred ferments when unions start to collapse, just look at the anti EU rhetoric that is made all over the right wing press and social media (including here). Let's be brutally honest - it is all about we being British and thus being superior for no other reason than being British. Close unions between countries are good. | |||
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"I agree with mark carney that brexit will make britain poorer. You're not the only one That is good and yes, many think the same." Phillip Hammond thinks the same. | |||
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"Let's be brutally honest - it is all about we being British and thus being superior for no other reason than being British. Close unions between countries are good."  bad things happen when countries believe their own hype | |||
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"I agree with mark carney that brexit will make britain poorer. You're not the only one That is good and yes, many think the same. Phillip Hammond thinks the same." Yes and he too, everyone are a secret remainer, because they know being in the eu is the best option. | |||
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" Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt" We'll all be able to stand on the White Cliffs waving our Union Jacks, or St. George Crosses if you prefer, stick two fingers in the air and say "up yours". That's what BREXITers mean when they say "it may be tough but it'll be worth it" | |||
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" Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt We'll all be able to stand on the White Cliffs waving our Union Jacks, or St. George Crosses if you prefer, stick two fingers in the air and say "up yours". That's what BREXITers mean when they say "it may be tough but it'll be worth it"" | |||
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"So who's meeting me at the white cliffs of Dover then I need a George cross flag tho lmao cracken gets better " I though he was being ironic  | |||
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"So who's meeting me at the white cliffs of Dover then I need a George cross flag tho lmao cracken gets better I though he was being ironic "No, boring. Must say, it's a nice day for it  | |||
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"So who's meeting me at the white cliffs of Dover then I need a George cross flag tho lmao cracken gets better I though he was being ironic
No, boring.
Must say, it's a nice day for it "Nice day for which, being boring or waving flags? | |||
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"So who's meeting me at the white cliffs of Dover then I need a George cross flag tho lmao cracken gets better I though he was being ironic
No, boring.
Must say, it's a nice day for it
Nice day for which, being boring or waving flags?"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag. | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag. "The United Federation of Planets  | |||
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" Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt We'll all be able to stand on the White Cliffs waving our Union Jacks, or St. George Crosses if you prefer, stick two fingers in the air and say "up yours". That's what BREXITers mean when they say "it may be tough but it'll be worth it"" You forgot to put the flag of the Welsh dragon in there too. A majority also voted Leave in Wales remember. | |||
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"Why does no one see what is happening now...the £ is dropoing like crazy...is almost as €. All this negotiacions are already affecting the people of UK. What ever the outcome will be, for atlest 5 years it will be a lot harder to live. They have to think of a solution of still be able to trade with the UN... What does UK has to offer?? Potatoes, strawberrys, cows, cabage??? And some commonwhealth countys witch are poor??? I don't think they were thinking when they did the refferendum... " The UN is not a trading body so no idea where you got that idea from? The pound £ dropped recently as a result of the general election. The markets were scared shitless of a hard left Marxist Corbyn communist government potentially gaining power and bankrupting the country, and the pound dropped on election night when the exit poll came out predicting a hung parliament. | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets "One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
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"The pound is one if the most over valued currencies in the world. Stay calm and carry on. "We're you saying that 12 months ago after the Brexit vote? | |||
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"The pound is one if the most over valued currencies in the world. Stay calm and carry on.
We're you saying that 12 months ago after the Brexit vote? "About the pound yes.
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
"You sound like a religious nutjob now. A new world order run by the anti-christ? | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
You sound like a religious nutjob now. A new world order run by the anti-christ? "Us atheists dont believe in your gods.We believe in humanity | |||
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"The pound is one if the most over valued currencies in the world. Stay calm and carry on. "That it may be, but surely the fall in value of it shows that the pound is not trusted as much as a currency internationally. -Matt | |||
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" Ironic that you chose to mention Yugoslavia as was conflict free whilst it was a single federation. It was the loss of that union of of nations that caused the conflicts of the 1990's that still simmer today. The concept of a United States of Europe is fundamentally good and should be applauded - unless you have absolutely no knowledge of history. Good things dont necessarily happen because they are the easiest thing to to, they happen because they are the right thing to do. If you want to know how division and hatred ferments when unions start to collapse, just look at the anti EU rhetoric that is made all over the right wing press and social media (including here). Let's be brutally honest - it is all about we being British and thus being superior for no other reason than being British. Close unions between countries are good." Dont you remember what kept Yugoslavia peaceful? Its was force and the same for the rest of the old USSR it was fear and secret police that kept it together, do you think it would be better if the British empire was still going ? I doubt you do, why because you would say one country ruling lots is not good and thats the same with the old USSR and the same with the EU one or two countries rule it and the rest get the scraps, if you think thaats a recipe for peace then I dont, trade promotes peace, forced political mergers never will so lets go back to the old common market and I would vote for that tomorrow, I have no problem with free movement, because it has little direct impact on me, but I can seewhy others that are affected do. | |||
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" Ironic that you chose to mention Yugoslavia as was conflict free whilst it was a single federation. It was the loss of that union of of nations that caused the conflicts of the 1990's that still simmer today. The concept of a United States of Europe is fundamentally good and should be applauded - unless you have absolutely no knowledge of history. Good things dont necessarily happen because they are the easiest thing to to, they happen because they are the right thing to do. If you want to know how division and hatred ferments when unions start to collapse, just look at the anti EU rhetoric that is made all over the right wing press and social media (including here). Let's be brutally honest - it is all about we being British and thus being superior for no other reason than being British. Close unions between countries are good. Dont you remember what kept Yugoslavia peaceful? Its was force and the same for the rest of the old USSR it was fear and secret police that kept it together, do you think it would be better if the British empire was still going ? I doubt you do, why because you would say one country ruling lots is not good and thats the same with the old USSR and the same with the EU one or two countries rule it and the rest get the scraps, if you think thaats a recipe for peace then I dont, trade promotes peace, forced political mergers never will so lets go back to the old common market and I would vote for that tomorrow, I have no problem with free movement, because it has little direct impact on me, but I can seewhy others that are affected do. " Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. | |||
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"The pound is one if the most over valued currencies in the world. Stay calm and carry on.
That it may be, but surely the fall in value of it shows that the pound is not trusted as much as a currency internationally.
-Matt"Yeah the events of the last 12 mths didn't help trust in the pound.All the uncertainty. We were due this devaluation dont you think. | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak." Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again | |||
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" Whereas you are a world leading expert. Any and every business changes to market demand and conditions or dies, it will be just the same with brexit, lots of changes and lots of new opportunities, some will grab it with both hands and thrive some will sit and whinge and moan and pack up but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves Ahh OK, so it is businesses fault that Brexit is happening? Well I guess you could argue it is when you have the likes of Dyson and JCB trying to rally everyone to vote leave so they can cut some of that pesky red tape preventing them from exploiting their workers a bit more. Yes, every business has to change, and evolve to market conditions. The scale of this change, the speed at which it will happen and the breadth of the impact of the changes is probably not been seen since WWII. -Matt Where did I say it was businesses fault that brexit is happening ? There are arguments about exactly how many businesses export goods and services to the eu, they range from 5 to 11% and the total value is reckoned to be about 10% of total gdp, now to lose 10 of gdp in one hit would be a fair blow but not even the most hard nosed remainer has claimed that and of course if we lost ALL access to the EU they would face the same, of course that could never happen under WTO rules, will any change be rapid ? Of course not we have nearly two years ubtil any change happens at all and no doubt there will be clues as to the outcome before anything happens, neither side is going to want a cliff edge change. you stated that "but of course they will be the ones that blame anything but themselves" which implies that they are at fault. As for businesses, exports and cliff edges. You still don't get it do you? It doesn't matter whether neither side wants a cliff edge or not. It is what will happen unless something other than that is negotiated. Which requires, with the best will in the world, a hell of a lot to be negotiated before the end. And that is assuming we have the skill and manpower to do so. Which we clearly don't. As for only 5-11% of businesses that export to the EU... you may be correct. But what about the ones that import from the EU? I wouldn't class my business (as an IT contractor) as one that imports or exports from the EU. But I do periodically employ contractors that are based in the EU. I have employed EU citizens resident in the UK. I have bought services and supplies from an EU country. Now, I'm not saying that those things will not be possible, post brexit. Of course they still will be. But they will all be a little bit harder, and a little bit more expensive. And still, throughout all of this, no-one has yet to actually put forward any credible argument why we would be better off at the end of this palaver. -Matt We'll all be able to stand on the White Cliffs waving our Union Jacks, or St. George Crosses if you prefer, stick two fingers in the air and say "up yours". That's what BREXITers mean when they say "it may be tough but it'll be worth it" You forgot to put the flag of the Welsh dragon in there too. A majority also voted Leave in Wales remember. "They'd probably prefer to stand on the Severn Bridge, sing "Men of Harrlech" and say "up yours" from there, but if any want to bring their dragon flags and join us on the White Cliffs I'm sure we'll find room for them, especially if they bring some bara-brith to have for tea. | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
You sound like a religious nutjob now. A new world order run by the anti-christ? "Its from Star Trek they erdicated hunger, conflict, and war.
Sounds like you wouldn't know a eutopia if it bit you in the spok | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again" Oh yes, the same old BREXIT lie about an EU dictatorship trying to run everyone's life's. The fact that democratic accountability is built into every level of the EU is just totally ignored and brushed over. So which is it this time? Is it the unelected Commission? Tell me any major democracy that elects its civil service. Is it the Council of Ministers? How many other major democracies actually directly elect their ministers? Is it the president of the European Parliament? Is the speaker of the House of Commons directly elected? Or is it some other perfectly normal way of doing things that you've dragged up to prove your point but, when looked at more closely actually doesn't? | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
"Will that mean the end of international football matches and tournaments? | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
You sound like a religious nutjob now. A new world order run by the anti-christ?
Its from Star Trek they erdicated hunger, conflict, and war.
Sounds like you wouldn't know a eutopia if it bit you in the spok"Centaur adheres to the alex jones vision of a new world order where we all become slaves to the illumunati.Rather than the star trek vision of one world governance. | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again" Except Animal Farm wasnt a democracy and the EU is. Its not the EUs fault if your elected representatives made deals you didnt want. Article from the Financial Times calling the UTurn on sequencing a "capitulation" by Davis and the Tories. https://www.ft.com/content/c7923fba-1d31-39fd-82f0-ba1822ef20d2 And in other underperforming Tory negotiations the deal with the DUP still isnt done and the DUP have publicly come out and said that they cant be taken for granted. When asked for comment Centaur said that this was actually a very positive development and served to remind everyone not to take the good things in life for granted unlike that Corbyn fellow who rarely makes public statements of appreciativeness on subjects such as daisys, a cold pint on a hot day or fluffy clouds that look like animals. | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
" | |||
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"Why not just ask the E U what they want from us ? And decide yes or no ? Wether to accept ! If it's no we leave with no agreement , We will survive ! " 
You cant survive without an agreement. Thats the point.
You have NO trade deals with any other country. You will literally be on the worst trade terms in the world WITH EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. North Korea will have better trade than the UK will until it negotiates the trade deals it needs.
China estimates it would take ten years to negotiate a new deal with the UK and thats just 1 of the deals that will be essential to the survival of the UK. You'd have to negotiate 14+ comprehensive deals faster than anyones done 1 just to have a survivable recession. There are over 100 trade deals in total that the UK will have to replace, an average of 5 a month. And no one in the UK has any experience doing these deals.
No deal means that you lose all the tech workers, medical workers and every other EU employee. You cant possibly retrain enough British workers to replace all those doctors, nurses and tech workers and the rest.
Northern Ireland will have a hard border and does anyone anywhere really want to kick that hornets nest? | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again" Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? " Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU" Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
Will that mean the end of international football matches and tournaments?"They get replaced by interplanetary during events | |||
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"Why does no one see what is happening now...the £ is dropoing like crazy...is almost as €. All this negotiacions are already affecting the people of UK. What ever the outcome will be, for atlest 5 years it will be a lot harder to live. They have to think of a solution of still be able to trade with the UN... What does UK has to offer?? Potatoes, strawberrys, cows, cabage??? And some commonwhealth countys witch are poor??? I don't think they were thinking when they did the refferendum... The UN is not a trading body so no idea where you got that idea from? The pound £ dropped recently as a result of the general election. The markets were scared shitless of a hard left Marxist Corbyn communist government potentially gaining power and bankrupting the country, and the pound dropped on election night when the exit poll came out predicting a hung parliament. "
Markets drop due to uncertainty, a decisive victory either way would have stabilised it.
Please try not to get your economics knowledge from The Sun. | |||
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"Why does no one see what is happening now...the £ is dropoing like crazy...is almost as €. All this negotiacions are already affecting the people of UK. What ever the outcome will be, for atlest 5 years it will be a lot harder to live. They have to think of a solution of still be able to trade with the UN... What does UK has to offer?? Potatoes, strawberrys, cows, cabage??? And some commonwhealth countys witch are poor??? I don't think they were thinking when they did the refferendum... The UN is not a trading body so no idea where you got that idea from? The pound £ dropped recently as a result of the general election. The markets were scared shitless of a hard left Marxist Corbyn communist government potentially gaining power and bankrupting the country, and the pound dropped on election night when the exit poll came out predicting a hung parliament.
Markets drop due to uncertainty, a decisive victory either way would have stabilised it.
Please try not to get your economics knowledge from The Sun. "Indeed, one of the largest currency trading banks was saying just before the election that they thought a Corbyn win would be good for GBP as it would bring some more stability. Can't remember which one it was off the top of my head. -Matt | |||
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"Why does no one see what is happening now...the £ is dropoing like crazy...is almost as €. All this negotiacions are already affecting the people of UK. What ever the outcome will be, for atlest 5 years it will be a lot harder to live. They have to think of a solution of still be able to trade with the UN... What does UK has to offer?? Potatoes, strawberrys, cows, cabage??? And some commonwhealth countys witch are poor??? I don't think they were thinking when they did the refferendum... The UN is not a trading body so no idea where you got that idea from? The pound £ dropped recently as a result of the general election. The markets were scared shitless of a hard left Marxist Corbyn communist government potentially gaining power and bankrupting the country, and the pound dropped on election night when the exit poll came out predicting a hung parliament.
Markets drop due to uncertainty, a decisive victory either way would have stabilised it.
Please try not to get your economics knowledge from The Sun.
Indeed, one of the largest currency trading banks was saying just before the election that they thought a Corbyn win would be good for GBP as it would bring some more stability. Can't remember which one it was off the top of my head.
-Matt"Probably because it doesn't exist or is the one used in Toytown | |||
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"Why not just ask the E U what they want from us ? And decide yes or no ? Wether to accept ! If it's no we leave with no agreement , We will survive ! " Because I don't want a Britain were we just survive, I want a Britain were we can thrive and prosper. | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation?" Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Why does no one see what is happening now...the £ is dropoing like crazy...is almost as €. All this negotiacions are already affecting the people of UK. What ever the outcome will be, for atlest 5 years it will be a lot harder to live. They have to think of a solution of still be able to trade with the UN... What does UK has to offer?? Potatoes, strawberrys, cows, cabage??? And some commonwhealth countys witch are poor??? I don't think they were thinking when they did the refferendum... The UN is not a trading body so no idea where you got that idea from? The pound £ dropped recently as a result of the general election. The markets were scared shitless of a hard left Marxist Corbyn communist government potentially gaining power and bankrupting the country, and the pound dropped on election night when the exit poll came out predicting a hung parliament.
Markets drop due to uncertainty, a decisive victory either way would have stabilised it.
Please try not to get your economics knowledge from The Sun.
Indeed, one of the largest currency trading banks was saying just before the election that they thought a Corbyn win would be good for GBP as it would bring some more stability. Can't remember which one it was off the top of my head.
-Matt
Probably because it doesn't exist or is the one used in Toytown"No, it exists, I just looked it up. I didnt quite remember right though. It wasn't from a bank, it was from an independent analyst firm set up by the former chief economist at HSBC: http://uk.businessinsider.com/labour-election-victory-could-boost-the-pound-2017-6 -Matt | |||
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"Why does no one see what is happening now...the £ is dropoing like crazy...is almost as €. All this negotiacions are already affecting the people of UK. What ever the outcome will be, for atlest 5 years it will be a lot harder to live. They have to think of a solution of still be able to trade with the UN... What does UK has to offer?? Potatoes, strawberrys, cows, cabage??? And some commonwhealth countys witch are poor??? I don't think they were thinking when they did the refferendum... The UN is not a trading body so no idea where you got that idea from? The pound £ dropped recently as a result of the general election. The markets were scared shitless of a hard left Marxist Corbyn communist government potentially gaining power and bankrupting the country, and the pound dropped on election night when the exit poll came out predicting a hung parliament.
Markets drop due to uncertainty, a decisive victory either way would have stabilised it.
Please try not to get your economics knowledge from The Sun.
Indeed, one of the largest currency trading banks was saying just before the election that they thought a Corbyn win would be good for GBP as it would bring some more stability. Can't remember which one it was off the top of my head.
-Matt
Probably because it doesn't exist or is the one used in Toytown"Way to makde my point for me!
Is this a "slow handclap" moment? | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake" Greece is in the mess it's in because the Greek people voted in populist governments that promised them everything and told them someone else (the Germans) would pay for it all. The Greeks are now coming to the reality that, if you really want something, you can't expect someone else to pay for it. Greece would have had problems in or out of the EU or the EURO following a policy of high deficit spending. If you disagree that Greece would have had problems with a policy of high deficit spending then you can't really say that's Corbyn's high deficit policy would wreck our economy either. Or is all this economic stuff just Greek to you any how? | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
Will that mean the end of international football matches and tournaments?
They get replaced by interplanetary during events "Sounds good | |||
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"Flag wavers always bore me.One day there will only be one flag.
The United Federation of Planets One day .One people. One nation. One planet.One president of earth .
You sound like a religious nutjob now. A new world order run by the anti-christ?
Its from Star Trek they erdicated hunger, conflict, and war.
Sounds like you wouldn't know a eutopia if it bit you in the spok"Never been a Star Trek fan. I'm a STAR WARS guy. | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Except Animal Farm wasnt a democracy and the EU is. Its not the EUs fault if your elected representatives made deals you didnt want. Article from the Financial Times calling the UTurn on sequencing a "capitulation" by Davis and the Tories. https://www.ft.com/content/c7923fba-1d31-39fd-82f0-ba1822ef20d2 " Ah the FT, otherwise known as the Daily Remain. Enough said. | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Except Animal Farm wasnt a democracy and the EU is. Its not the EUs fault if your elected representatives made deals you didnt want. Article from the Financial Times calling the UTurn on sequencing a "capitulation" by Davis and the Tories. https://www.ft.com/content/c7923fba-1d31-39fd-82f0-ba1822ef20d2 Ah the FT, otherwise known as the Daily Remain. Enough said. " At least they get their facts right unlike your sources. | |||
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"Why not just ask the E U what they want from us ? And decide yes or no ? Wether to accept ! If it's no we leave with no agreement , We will survive !
You cant survive without an agreement. Thats the point.
You have NO trade deals with any other country. You will literally be on the worst trade terms in the world WITH EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY. North Korea will have better trade than the UK will until it negotiates the trade deals it needs.
China estimates it would take ten years to negotiate a new deal with the UK and thats just 1 of the deals that will be essential to the survival of the UK. You'd have to negotiate 14+ comprehensive deals faster than anyones done 1 just to have a survivable recession. There are over 100 trade deals in total that the UK will have to replace, an average of 5 a month. And no one in the UK has any experience doing these deals.
No deal means that you lose all the tech workers, medical workers and every other EU employee. You cant possibly retrain enough British workers to replace all those doctors, nurses and tech workers and the rest.
Northern Ireland will have a hard border and does anyone anywhere really want to kick that hornets nest?"Now lets see what our trade balance with china is, who will lose out more from no deal, and to mention democracy and Ireland in the same breathe is a laugh, you just keep voting till you give the EU the result they want, live on in your dream world | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Except Animal Farm wasnt a democracy and the EU is. Its not the EUs fault if your elected representatives made deals you didnt want. Article from the Financial Times calling the UTurn on sequencing a "capitulation" by Davis and the Tories. https://www.ft.com/content/c7923fba-1d31-39fd-82f0-ba1822ef20d2 Ah the FT, otherwise known as the Daily Remain. Enough said. " So you are seriously comparing a newspaper who's pretty much sole purpose is business, finance and economic news and written and read by those working in the finance and related industries to a newspaper who's main purpose is to scare us into thinking immigrants are bad, or to compare who has the best legs out of May or Merkel? Ever thought why the FT seems to be pro-remain? -Matt | |||
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" Suggest you read up about Tito - regarded widely as "the benevolant dictator" and viewed as " a unifying symbol, his internal policies maintained the peaceful coexistence of the nations of the Yugoslav federation." Of course as a Brexiter you probably know better - just because your story is the one you waould rather believe. Alternative facts, so to speak. Whereas as a remainer you just know better. Tito kept the peace by supressing the feelings that exploded after his death, so are you suggesting that the EU should use force to suppress any nationalistic pride, so much for democracy, remember one mans freedom fighter is anothers terrorist, its just depends on which side you are, so here we have it, the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Except Animal Farm wasnt a democracy and the EU is. Its not the EUs fault if your elected representatives made deals you didnt want. Article from the Financial Times calling the UTurn on sequencing a "capitulation" by Davis and the Tories. https://www.ft.com/content/c7923fba-1d31-39fd-82f0-ba1822ef20d2 Ah the FT, otherwise known as the Daily Remain. Enough said. So you are seriously comparing a newspaper who's pretty much sole purpose is business, finance and economic news and written and read by those working in the finance and related industries to a newspaper who's main purpose is to scare us into thinking immigrants are bad, or to compare who has the best legs out of May or Merkel? Ever thought why the FT seems to be pro-remain? -Matt" I think on legs, May beats Merkel easily. However Sturgeon easily beats then both. | |||
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" Now lets see what our trade balance with china is, who will lose out more from no deal, and to mention democracy and Ireland in the same breathe is a laugh, you just keep voting till you give the EU the result they want, live on in your dream world " Of course, both the EU and China will both be devastated without Britains trade. Davis will bring both countries to their knees as they beg to trade under whatever terms he gives us
The UK is 2.5% of Chinas export market. Thats nothing. Losing Britain would mean that instead of their export market growing by 16.4% this year, it grows by 13.9%.
At some point you'll have to realise youre only as important as the numbers are.
And if you hadnt the memory of a goldfish you'd remember that we didnt like the deal on offer from the EU and vited it down, the EU changed it to what we wanted and then we accepted. Maybe your government should have tried that once in a while | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake Greece is in the mess it's in because the Greek people voted in populist governments that promised them everything and told them someone else (the Germans) would pay for it all. The Greeks are now coming to the reality that, if you really want something, you can't expect someone else to pay for it. Greece would have had problems in or out of the EU or the EURO following a policy of high deficit spending. If you disagree that Greece would have had problems with a policy of high deficit spending then you can't really say that's Corbyn's high deficit policy would wreck our economy either. Or is all this economic stuff just Greek to you any how?" It's the Greeks' fault? Well whose fault is the state of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cyprus, even France etc? Can you tell me how many countries have benefitted from the Euro? Or is that all Greek to you? | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake Greece is in the mess it's in because the Greek people voted in populist governments that promised them everything and told them someone else (the Germans) would pay for it all. The Greeks are now coming to the reality that, if you really want something, you can't expect someone else to pay for it. Greece would have had problems in or out of the EU or the EURO following a policy of high deficit spending. If you disagree that Greece would have had problems with a policy of high deficit spending then you can't really say that's Corbyn's high deficit policy would wreck our economy either. Or is all this economic stuff just Greek to you any how? It's the Greeks' fault? Well whose fault is the state of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cyprus, even France etc? Can you tell me how many countries have benefitted from the Euro? Or is that all Greek to you?" How many of those countries have had a referendum? | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake Greece is in the mess it's in because the Greek people voted in populist governments that promised them everything and told them someone else (the Germans) would pay for it all. The Greeks are now coming to the reality that, if you really want something, you can't expect someone else to pay for it. Greece would have had problems in or out of the EU or the EURO following a policy of high deficit spending. If you disagree that Greece would have had problems with a policy of high deficit spending then you can't really say that's Corbyn's high deficit policy would wreck our economy either. Or is all this economic stuff just Greek to you any how? It's the Greeks' fault? Well whose fault is the state of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cyprus, even France etc? Can you tell me how many countries have benefitted from the Euro? Or is that all Greek to you?" Spain, Portugal and Italy all thought that by joining the EURO they would be able to adopt high spending, deficit policies and wouldn't suffer the normal consequence of currency devaluation and inflation. They to also thought that Germany would bail them out and pay for it all. They were correct on the first two points, they haven't suffered currency devaluation or high inflation. They were only partly right in believing that Germany would pay for it all. The lesson to learn from all these countries is simple; you can't continually spend more than you earn and the price they've paid for trying to do so has been a shrinking economy and high unemployment. Who's benefited from the EURO. Up until 2008 every country that was in it and most countries that traded with the EURO area. Since 2008 countries in the EURO area that were not fiscally prudent (the once you mentioned) have suffered but they would have suffered, as many other countries did, whether in the EU or not. They may have suffered differently but they still would have suffered. Remember what the Conservatives used to say about fixing the roof while the sun is shining? Well it's just as true for other countries whether in the EU or not. | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake Greece is in the mess it's in because the Greek people voted in populist governments that promised them everything and told them someone else (the Germans) would pay for it all. The Greeks are now coming to the reality that, if you really want something, you can't expect someone else to pay for it. Greece would have had problems in or out of the EU or the EURO following a policy of high deficit spending. If you disagree that Greece would have had problems with a policy of high deficit spending then you can't really say that's Corbyn's high deficit policy would wreck our economy either. Or is all this economic stuff just Greek to you any how? It's the Greeks' fault? Well whose fault is the state of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cyprus, even France etc? Can you tell me how many countries have benefitted from the Euro? Or is that all Greek to you? Spain, Portugal and Italy all thought that by joining the EURO they would be able to adopt high spending, deficit policies and wouldn't suffer the normal consequence of currency devaluation and inflation. They to also thought that Germany would bail them out and pay for it all. They were correct on the first two points, they haven't suffered currency devaluation or high inflation. They were only partly right in believing that Germany would pay for it all. The lesson to learn from all these countries is simple; you can't continually spend more than you earn and the price they've paid for trying to do so has been a shrinking economy and high unemployment. Who's benefited from the EURO. Up until 2008 every country that was in it and most countries that traded with the EURO area. Since 2008 countries in the EURO area that were not fiscally prudent (the once you mentioned) have suffered but they would have suffered, as many other countries did, whether in the EU or not. They may have suffered differently but they still would have suffered. Remember what the Conservatives used to say about fixing the roof while the sun is shining? Well it's just as true for other countries whether in the EU or not." The only country that has benifitted from the Euro before and after 2008 is Germany. And you are right in that you cannot carry on spending money that you don't have, thats why Labour have been and would be a disaster for this country. But to suggest that those EU countries thought that they could carry on spending because Germany would bail them out and pay for it all is ridiculous. The EU economies are too diverse to be tied to a single currency and for struggling countries to be unable to control their own monetary policy is just a disaster waiting to happen, leads to unemployment and poverty and proves that a large part of their sovereignty and independance has been taken away. Why most of them signed up to it is beyond me, I can only assume that EU corruption runs very high and deep | |||
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" ......... the EU is going to become a benevolent dictator, dont think the greeks are happy about things now let alone when the truth comes out that we will all do as we are told, its for our good though, big brother will look after us, sounds like the old communist ideal, animal farm all over again Yet you don't see a referendum from the Greeks to leave. Why not? Because they like to piss the Germans off for what they have done to them. Germany would love to see Greece leave the EU Wow - that is incredible stuff even by your standards. You are actually saying that the Greeks are desperate to escape the hated EU in order to save themselves, but they won't have a referendum to do so because their hatred of Germany is greater than their need for self preservation? Well, ask a stupid question. The problem the Greeks have now is that they are fu.ked whatever they do but they won't want to leave while they keep getting bailed out. Which is what will happen again in July otherwise the EU would have to admit that the Euro was a big mistake Greece is in the mess it's in because the Greek people voted in populist governments that promised them everything and told them someone else (the Germans) would pay for it all. The Greeks are now coming to the reality that, if you really want something, you can't expect someone else to pay for it. Greece would have had problems in or out of the EU or the EURO following a policy of high deficit spending. If you disagree that Greece would have had problems with a policy of high deficit spending then you can't really say that's Corbyn's high deficit policy would wreck our economy either. Or is all this economic stuff just Greek to you any how? It's the Greeks' fault? Well whose fault is the state of Spain, Portugal, Italy, Cyprus, even France etc? Can you tell me how many countries have benefitted from the Euro? Or is that all Greek to you? Spain, Portugal and Italy all thought that by joining the EURO they would be able to adopt high spending, deficit policies and wouldn't suffer the normal consequence of currency devaluation and inflation. They to also thought that Germany would bail them out and pay for it all. They were correct on the first two points, they haven't suffered currency devaluation or high inflation. They were only partly right in believing that Germany would pay for it all. The lesson to learn from all these countries is simple; you can't continually spend more than you earn and the price they've paid for trying to do so has been a shrinking economy and high unemployment. Who's benefited from the EURO. Up until 2008 every country that was in it and most countries that traded with the EURO area. Since 2008 countries in the EURO area that were not fiscally prudent (the once you mentioned) have suffered but they would have suffered, as many other countries did, whether in the EU or not. They may have suffered differently but they still would have suffered. Remember what the Conservatives used to say about fixing the roof while the sun is shining? Well it's just as true for other countries whether in the EU or not. The only country that has benifitted from the Euro before and after 2008 is Germany. And you are right in that you cannot carry on spending money that you don't have, thats why Labour have been and would be a disaster for this country. But to suggest that those EU countries thought that they could carry on spending because Germany would bail them out and pay for it all is ridiculous. The EU economies are too diverse to be tied to a single currency and for struggling countries to be unable to control their own monetary policy is just a disaster waiting to happen, leads to unemployment and poverty and proves that a large part of their sovereignty and independance has been taken away. Why most of them signed up to it is beyond me, I can only assume that EU corruption runs very high and deep" It's simply not true to say only the Germans benefited from the EURO. The reduction in currency transaction prices alone was a benefit to all. I do agree with you however that countries that were not willing to be financially prudent, while still having problems whether in the EURO or not, would probably have been better of not joining in the first place. But that's democracy for you. Via their elected governments, and in some cases by referendum, they chose to join. The reality is simple, if you really want things like good health and social services you're going to have to be willing to pay more for them yourself and if you think someone else is actually going to pay for it all you're only going to end up disappointed and more than likely in an economic mess. Being in or out of the EU makes no difference to that. Being in or out of the EURO only changes the type of pain. | |||
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" Now lets see what our trade balance with china is, who will lose out more from no deal, and to mention democracy and Ireland in the same breathe is a laugh, you just keep voting till you give the EU the result they want, live on in your dream world Of course, both the EU and China will both be devastated without Britains trade. Davis will bring both countries to their knees as they beg to trade under whatever terms he gives us
The UK is 2.5% of Chinas export market. Thats nothing. Losing Britain would mean that instead of their export market growing by 16.4% this year, it grows by 13.9%.
At some point you'll have to realise youre only as important as the numbers are.
And if you hadnt the memory of a goldfish you'd remember that we didnt like the deal on offer from the EU and vited it down, the EU changed it to what we wanted and then we accepted. Maybe your government should have tried that once in a while "Even you arent that blind to believe there was any real change, just as DC tried to fool the uk that he got anything from "his" deal not everyone falls for the spin | |||
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" Even you arent that blind to believe there was any real change, just as DC tried to fool the uk that he got anything from "his" deal not everyone falls for the spin" We had a constitutional amendment added to the bill to approve Nice 2 that was negotiated with the EU to guarantee that the only way Irish people would serve in a European military force is if the public passes a referendum allowing it. Thats what we negotiated for. Thats what we got. And thats something no other nation, including the UK, has. So yes there was a real difference in the 2nd one. If you want to read up on it https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/ireland-s-neutrality-is-assured-under-the-nice-treaty-1.1099408?mode=amp | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights." If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? " Why didnt they ? | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? " Agreed but you could always ask that question of the EU as well | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? " She tried to sort that out in the beginning but the EU said that they would not discuss it or agree it until negotiations had got underway. | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? Why didnt they ? " Because we're organised and professional and we'd done our preparaton to work out the best way to do it. Not decide the fate of hundreds of thousands in 5 minutes on the back of a napkin. Pity the Tories couldnt put the same effort in. | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? Why didnt they ? Because we're organised and professional and we'd done our preparaton to work out the best way to do it. Not decide the fate of hundreds of thousands in 5 minutes on the back of a napkin. Pity the Tories couldnt put the same effort in." How difficult is it to say any person currently present on the agreed date can carry on as before, oh of course this is the eu they have to have 20 committee meetings to work that out. | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? Why didnt they ? Because we're organised and professional and we'd done our preparaton to work out the best way to do it. Not decide the fate of hundreds of thousands in 5 minutes on the back of a napkin. Pity the Tories couldnt put the same effort in. How difficult is it to say any person currently present on the agreed date can carry on as before, oh of course this is the eu they have to have 20 committee meetings to work that out. " Except the EU position was worked out weeks ago and was published in their position papers before negitiations began. The Tories on the other hand had no position or policy laid out. So which is the dysfunctional organisation? | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? Why didnt they ? Because we're organised and professional and we'd done our preparaton to work out the best way to do it. Not decide the fate of hundreds of thousands in 5 minutes on the back of a napkin. Pity the Tories couldnt put the same effort in. How difficult is it to say any person currently present on the agreed date can carry on as before, oh of course this is the eu they have to have 20 committee meetings to work that out. " Quite difficult actually. It's difficult enough just to know for sure when an EU citizen actually arrived but even if you solve that problem you still have others. For example if we leave the EHIC scheme what rights to they have to health care. Will we still recognise European certificates of competence? Will EU Doctors and Nurses still be legally qualified to work here? Who's going to pay their pensions? Will their pensions be frozen? The list is endless. Letting them stay here is easy; what they can actually do here is much more difficult. And the same applies to Brits in the EU. | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? Agreed but you could always ask that question of the EU as well" Two reasons they couldn't do it. Firstly because the UK hadn't triggered article 50, and secondly because May was trying to do bilateral deals with other countries rather than trying to negotiate with the block and she should have done. | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? Why didnt they ? Because we're organised and professional and we'd done our preparaton to work out the best way to do it. Not decide the fate of hundreds of thousands in 5 minutes on the back of a napkin. Pity the Tories couldnt put the same effort in. How difficult is it to say any person currently present on the agreed date can carry on as before, oh of course this is the eu they have to have 20 committee meetings to work that out. Except the EU position was worked out weeks ago and was published in their position papers before negitiations began. The Tories on the other hand had no position or policy laid out. So which is the dysfunctional organisation?" The EU is the dysfunctional organisation on this particular topic of the rights of its citizens. They could have agreed a fully reciprocal deal on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered when the UK made an offer and the EU refused. Now Theresa May has made the offer up front again and put the EU on the back foot on this. The UK is in the ascendancy and the EU is on the defensive now, let's see how much the EU really cares about the rights of their citizens or if they decide to throw the rights of their citizens under the bus. A deal can only be done on this if it's fully reciprocal for UK citizens living in the EU but considering there are only 1 million UK citizens in the EU and 3 million EU citizens in the UK then the EU has more to lose than the UK by refusing a deal. | |||
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"I think that Theresa May will backfoot the EU today, with a major announcement on EU citizens rights. If its the right thing to do then why didn't she do that months ago? She tried to sort that out in the beginning but the EU said that they would not discuss it or agree it until negotiations had got underway. " So the EU decided rather than agreeing to the deal that was offered by the UK on this last Nov/Dec they preferred instead to use their citizens as bargaining chips in the negotiations. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home." Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying " That is right and it is good for us that are not british as we still got free movement in the eu | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying " Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. " Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example " All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence. | |||
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"They do tend to be younger also tend to AV children which leads to school places leads to over crowding every story as a flip side tho ." I agree we need more schools to balace the situation. Thats the goverments fault. Poor planning. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence. "The law actually is that if you are not domiciled in the UK; whether British or not, you are not aloud free NHS treatment. Problem is it's just not enforced. | |||
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"They do tend to be younger also tend to AV children which leads to school places leads to over crowding every story as a flip side tho ." But that's not really true for most EU migrants either. Most EU migrants are young and healthy but most only stay here for a limited period and then go back home. Most don't choose to live here indefinitely and don't bring their wives or kids with then because most who come here don't actually have those dependents yet. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence.
The law actually is that if you are not domiciled in the UK; whether British or not, you are not aloud free NHS treatment. Problem is it's just not enforced."A crackdown on NHS tourism is needed. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence.
The law actually is that if you are not domiciled in the UK; whether British or not, you are not aloud free NHS treatment. Problem is it's just not enforced. A crackdown on NHS tourism is needed. "That's a different question but the point is we could if we wanted to and we could do it now if we wanted to. Being in or out of the EU makes no difference to this. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence. "So, you're suggesting that despite the fact that I've lived and worked in the UK for my entire life, paid my dues in tax and NI plus all the indirect taxes that we pay, I'm NOT entitled to free NHS care if I choose to live abroad for 5 years? As things stand, I guess I'm more entitled to free healthcare than you because, being older, I've paid more into the system than you. Tell you what, why don't we stop giving free healthcare to the unemployed and disabled, after all, they don't contribute into the system. | |||
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"It starts today at 11am, how do you think it will go? EU already have the upper hand as may said, that a no deal is better than a bad deal "this country will be taken to the cleaners places like Frankfurt have long had their sights on Londons financial district I'm glad I'm dual citizen if things go downhill will move back to Sweden ???? | |||
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"It starts today at 11am, how do you think it will go? EU already have the upper hand as may said, that a no deal is better than a bad deal this country will be taken to the cleaners places like Frankfurt have long had their sights on Londons financial district I'm glad I'm dual citizen if things go downhill will move back to Sweden ???? "That is right, england will go down hill. I wont move to sweden cos of the immigration crisis they have now you know and with all the problems, no go areas and all sorts, it is just not safe, but we already have a place in spain which I will move to in a few years, lots of sun and sea and palm trees. | |||
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"It starts today at 11am, how do you think it will go? EU already have the upper hand as may said, that a no deal is better than a bad deal this country will be taken to the cleaners places like Frankfurt have long had their sights on Londons financial district I'm glad I'm dual citizen if things go downhill will move back to Sweden ???? That is right, england will go down hill. I wont move to sweden cos of the immigration crisis they have now you know and with all the problems, no go areas and all sorts, it is just not safe, but we already have a place in spain which I will move to in a few years, lots of sun and sea and palm trees."I was in Sweden February I didn't notice anything I lived there for 15 years happy days it's mainly the press trying to sell news papers | |||
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"Ffs shaq rub it in why don't ya lol" I know and to be in the eu and single market too lol | |||
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"It starts today at 11am, how do you think it will go? EU already have the upper hand as may said, that a no deal is better than a bad deal this country will be taken to the cleaners places like Frankfurt have long had their sights on Londons financial district I'm glad I'm dual citizen if things go downhill will move back to Sweden ???? That is right, england will go down hill. I wont move to sweden cos of the immigration crisis they have now you know and with all the problems, no go areas and all sorts, it is just not safe, but we already have a place in spain which I will move to in a few years, lots of sun and sea and palm trees. I was in Sweden February I didn't notice anything I lived there for 15 years happy days it's mainly the press trying to sell news papers "I know, it depends what areas you live in too, where in sweden where you?. | |||
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"Fuck that I was thinking the SUN SEA SAND and in yr case prob the Xbox lol " Yes and the xbox, but I would mostly be down the beach getting the sun tan and go for a swim lol | |||
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"Dave Davis already being shown up for tits he is, might as well have sent Kevin the teenager" Hes such a cock. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example " Which we probably have to pay the european country for in any case through the various health schemes | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence.
So, you're suggesting that despite the fact that I've lived and worked in the UK for my entire life, paid my dues in tax and NI plus all the indirect taxes that we pay, I'm NOT entitled to free NHS care if I choose to live abroad for 5 years?
As things stand, I guess I'm more entitled to free healthcare than you because, being older, I've paid more into the system than you.
Tell you what, why don't we stop giving free healthcare to the unemployed and disabled, after all, they don't contribute into the system."Actually you don't have to have been living out of the country for 5 years or more. You just have to be an overseas visitor as defined in the "The National Health Service (Charges to Overseas Visitors) Regulations 2015" which says:- "overseas visitor" means a person not ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom. So, legally, I'm not suggesting to you that you're not entitled to free NHS care if you've lived aboard for 5 years or more; I'm telling you that if you currently live aboard, even if it's only been a few months, you are not legally entitled to free NHS care. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence.
The law actually is that if you are not domiciled in the UK; whether British or not, you are not aloud free NHS treatment. Problem is it's just not enforced. A crackdown on NHS tourism is needed.
That's a different question but the point is we could if we wanted to and we could do it now if we wanted to. Being in or out of the EU makes no difference to this."Apparently if you leave the UK for 6 mths your not entitled to treatment from the NHS.Regardless of being a citizen.Immigration could collect a data base on these tourists. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example Which we probably have to pay the european country for in any case through the various health schemes" No we don't. We only have to pay out of the NHS those treated under the EHIC scheme. The EHIC scheme does not cover long term or permanent residence. If you choose to live in another country they are responsible for your care and you are responsible for any costs required to get that care. If it's an EU country you are entitled to the same treatment and care at the same cost as a citizen of that country. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example All the oldies do that now.They come back here and get treated on the NHS and then go back out to spain once theyve had their fill of free medicine and health care.Once you leave for more than 5 years you should be cut a drift if the UK isnt your residence.
The law actually is that if you are not domiciled in the UK; whether British or not, you are not aloud free NHS treatment. Problem is it's just not enforced. A crackdown on NHS tourism is needed.
That's a different question but the point is we could if we wanted to and we could do it now if we wanted to. Being in or out of the EU makes no difference to this. Apparently if you leave the UK for 6 mths your not entitled to treatment from the NHS.Regardless of being a citizen.Immigration could collect a data base on these tourists. "The same goes for benefits as you wouldn't pass the habitual residency test | |||
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"It starts today at 11am, how do you think it will go? EU already have the upper hand as may said, that a no deal is better than a bad deal this country will be taken to the cleaners places like Frankfurt have long had their sights on Londons financial district I'm glad I'm dual citizen if things go downhill will move back to Sweden ???? That is right, england will go down hill. I wont move to sweden cos of the immigration crisis they have now you know and with all the problems, no go areas and all sorts, it is just not safe, but we already have a place in spain which I will move to in a few years, lots of sun and sea and palm trees. I was in Sweden February I didn't notice anything I lived there for 15 years happy days it's mainly the press trying to sell news papers I know, it depends what areas you live in too, where in sweden where you?."Stockholm and it's not like London it's cleaner and safer a lot safer we have areas in London that look like third world countries | |||
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" The EU is the dysfunctional organisation on this particular topic of the rights of its citizens. They could have agreed a fully reciprocal deal on this last Nov/Dec before article 50 was triggered when the UK made an offer and the EU refused. Now Theresa May has made the offer up front again and put the EU on the back foot on this. The UK is in the ascendancy and the EU is on the defensive now, let's see how much the EU really cares about the rights of their citizens or if they decide to throw the rights of their citizens under the bus. A deal can only be done on this if it's fully reciprocal for UK citizens living in the EU but considering there are only 1 million UK citizens in the EU and 3 million EU citizens in the UK then the EU has more to lose than the UK by refusing a deal. " The EU waited until Article 50 was negotiated. Took their time to look at the best way forward for their citizens and looked at the different options and scheduled it as one of the first 3 points to be agreed. Thats the responsible correct way of doing it. Not trying to negotiate 27 different arrangements with each country in 5 minutes at the end of a meeting like May tried to do. The EU is not on the backfoot at all. It got the sequence of events it called for exactly as they want it. They have their positions laid out and agreed and published. Different members of the Tory party are trying to push different agendas. Hammonds come out and said he wanted a different focus than the one May has. Farcical stuff. The UK stands to lose hundreds of thousands of vital employees if theres no agreement reached. And not to mention youre innaccurate version of events. May has told them what her offer is and the EU isnt happy that it offers enough security to citizens. The EU didnt take a bad deal and is pushing for more rights for citizens showing up your dishonest version of events that said the EU didnt care about citizens rights. | |||
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"It starts today at 11am, how do you think it will go? EU already have the upper hand as may said, that a no deal is better than a bad deal this country will be taken to the cleaners places like Frankfurt have long had their sights on Londons financial district I'm glad I'm dual citizen if things go downhill will move back to Sweden ???? That is right, england will go down hill. I wont move to sweden cos of the immigration crisis they have now you know and with all the problems, no go areas and all sorts, it is just not safe, but we already have a place in spain which I will move to in a few years, lots of sun and sea and palm trees. I was in Sweden February I didn't notice anything I lived there for 15 years happy days it's mainly the press trying to sell news papers I know, it depends what areas you live in too, where in sweden where you?. Stockholm and it's not like London it's cleaner and safer a lot safer we have areas in London that look like third world countries "Good and I come from malmo and yes, some parts of london looks like one of those countries too, sometimes you wonder if you are in england. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example Which we probably have to pay the european country for in any case through the various health schemes No we don't. We only have to pay out of the NHS those treated under the EHIC scheme. The EHIC scheme does not cover long term or permanent residence. If you choose to live in another country they are responsible for your care and you are responsible for any costs required to get that care. If it's an EU country you are entitled to the same treatment and care at the same cost as a citizen of that country." This on the nhs website about 'older people' who have moved to Spain. Pensioners If you are living in Spain and you receive an exportable UK Pension, contribution-based Employment Support Allowance or another exportable benefit, you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK. You will need to apply for a certificate of entitlement known as an S1 form. For exportable UK pensions and contribution-based Employment Support Allowance, you can apply for your form via the International Pension Centre in the Department for Work and Pensions on 0191 218 7777. You may need to liaise with a different team, depending on the exportable benefit. Further information is available under Claiming benefits if you live, move or travel abroad on the GOV.UK website. Please note that different exportable benefits can have different rules in terms of healthcare cover. Once issued, register the S1 form with the relevant authority in Spain. Often you need to do this before you can register for healthcare or obtain a medical card. Once you have registered your S1 in Spain, you will be entitled to apply for and use a UK-issued EHIC to access state-funded necessary medical treatment when you visit other EEA countries. | |||
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"She said if you lived here more than 5 years you could stay, that means many brits in the eu have to come home. Not as many as there are EU citizens in the UK that would have to return home! Just saying Exactly, the EU have more to lose on this issue than the UK. Again.... I wonder when centaur says something that isn't quite true or misleading The awful truth is that the people who come here tend to be younger... and thus are paying tax and are net contributing to the country The people who would have to come back here would be older... who are more likely at that time to for example need more health care for example Which we probably have to pay the european country for in any case through the various health schemes No we don't. We only have to pay out of the NHS those treated under the EHIC scheme. The EHIC scheme does not cover long term or permanent residence. If you choose to live in another country they are responsible for your care and you are responsible for any costs required to get that care. If it's an EU country you are entitled to the same treatment and care at the same cost as a citizen of that country. This on the nhs website about 'older people' who have moved to Spain. Pensioners If you are living in Spain and you receive an exportable UK Pension, contribution-based Employment Support Allowance or another exportable benefit, you may be entitled to state healthcare paid for by the UK. You will need to apply for a certificate of entitlement known as an S1 form. For exportable UK pensions and contribution-based Employment Support Allowance, you can apply for your form via the International Pension Centre in the Department for Work and Pensions on 0191 218 7777. You may need to liaise with a different team, depending on the exportable benefit. Further information is available under Claiming benefits if you live, move or travel abroad on the GOV.UK website. Please note that different exportable benefits can have different rules in terms of healthcare cover. Once issued, register the S1 form with the relevant authority in Spain. Often you need to do this before you can register for healthcare or obtain a medical card. Once you have registered your S1 in Spain, you will be entitled to apply for and use a UK-issued EHIC to access state-funded necessary medical treatment when you visit other EEA countries." I've been looking all day for somewhere where it clearly lays out exactly when or if you can and can't use an UK issued EHIC card when actually not habitually resident in the UK. This quote suggests that in some circumstances you can I'm not sure it's exactly clear from this what those circumstances are. Maybe I'll try rereading it again tomorrow morning. | |||
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