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Taking Tusk to task
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt" Why don't you ask the directors of BMW Mercedes and VAG? I'm sure they'll enlighten you. Or perhaps those in charge of the EC budget, which will have a massive hole following our departure (which may explain why they are talking about an exit fee) | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt" On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt Why don't you ask the directors of BMW Mercedes and VAG? I'm sure they'll enlighten you. Or perhaps those in charge of the EC budget, which will have a massive hole following our departure (which may explain why they are talking about an exit fee)" 1) I asked why the EU needed the UK, not Merc, VAG, etc. 2) There is no exit fee. As explained before, we have financial commitments we have agreed to. This is not a punative charge. -Matt | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. " Right. And as pointed out to you before your logic is flawed. The EU as a whole has fewer citizens as a percentage of their total population that the UK. You also know that the British immigrants in the EU are generally older than the EU immigrants in the UK. -Matt | |||
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"Dear Mr Tusk, My unassuageable impression is that the expectations of you and your fellow EU negotiators are so unrealistically stratospheric as to be destined to lead to the UK breaking off negotiations - for Britain, no deal is most certainly better than acceding to a bad deal. While it is incredible that there are still comments emanating from euroland that the dream of retaining UK within the EC fold is not completely dead (IT IS!), it is equally astounding that EU politicians believe that they hold the stronger hand - THEY DO NOT! The EU needs Britain much more than UK needs the EC and you would do well to consider the outcome for European employment levels if there is no deal. Without an equitable agreement, German car manufacturers and French food & drink companies will suffer very badly. It would be messy, but if the EU team continues to negotiate in bad faith, then adopting the pre-EEC default position of complete disengagement from Brussels would be the most attractive option for Britain. It would be a huge mistake for you and your colleagues to misjudge the determination of the British electorate to withdraw from every strand of European bureaucracy and judiciary which impacts on this country. The suggestion this week that the ECJ should be the final arbiter of UK immigration policy in respect of EC citizens is simply ludicrous, but also very worrying for any observer hoping for an equitable agreement overall. If you overplay your weak hand, you may well impose severe consequences upon the people of Europe whose best interests you and your colleagues are elected to represent. Considerably more insight, intelligence and realism will be required from Brussels negotiators in the months ahead if you wish to secure a reasonable outcome. I know that Eurocrats are still in shock that Britain would actually wish to walk away from their wonderful EC project, but please wake up and smell the coffee. Regards " Dear Mr. Sensual Lad, I dont believe Mr Tusk reads these forums so all me to take his place. In regards to your letter your underlying point that the UK will happily walk away with no deal is faulty. Allow me to explain why: The German auto industry favours a tough deal for the UK. In fact their trade organisation has lobbied Germany to push for a tough deal publicly. They, unlike Brexiters, see the long term effects of Brexit. If the companies involved are unconcerned why would Mr Tusk? Your assertions that the UK is the one with the strong hand is clearly false as evidenced by the events of Brexit negotiations thus fat. May tried to get citizen rights agreed with a bad deal before Article 50 and was rejected so those negotiations were included in formal negotiations as the EU required. Davis proclaimed he would fight all summer for parallel talks on all issues as sequenced talks would be very harmful to the UKs negotiating position. He capitulated and the talks will proceed as the EU decided they would without any concession to Davis. If the UK had a strong hand to play why have they lost both times and avout to lose a third on citizen rights? Without an agreement the UK loses all trade deals negotiated by and with the EU. That means the UK will be on the worst tarrifs in the world and have no quotas to use for trade. Trade deals are long drawn out affairs due to the complexity and sheer size of the deals, not to mention the various trade and industries and experts that have to be consulted to ensure a good deal. These deals can take 3 to 20 years to implement. The UK will have to start from scratch to renegotiate and implement over 100 comprehensive trade deals in 21 months. No one has managed to do this even a single time lets alone 5 times a month for 21 months in a row. China estimates it will take 10 years to agree a deal with the UK for example. Not to mention that without the size of the market that a combined EU and UK had the UK is going to get less favourable trading terms. Why would China,America or anyone else give larger concessions to the UK when its a smaller market, especially when the UK is desperate to deal and deal fast?? 250,000 jobs would be lost in the construction industry without a deal, 200,000 in the financial industry and 100,000 in euro clearing. 1 third of manaufacturing companies are looking at moving some or all operations to the EU. The employment crisis will be the UKs as the EU is about to get a huge jobs influx. The citizens rights will be an international treaty between UK and EU so of course there will be international arbitration. It would be most efficient if this is the ECJ, but Im sure Mr Tusk will allow the UK to have an international court by a different name to claim a symbolic victory for idiots who think a different name matters. It will still be a European court above the British courts. Not agreeing to a deal will also see tens of thousands of doctors and nurses leaving the NHS overnight as March 29th hits and they lose employment and residency rights. This will cripple your health care system and the EU will benefit from getting hard to find medical personnel. Your economy is already cratering thanks to Brexit. The value of the pound has dropped significantly, inflation has risen, your growth has gone from fastest in the EU and G7 to lowest. At just 0.2% youre hovering above recession. The value of real wages has dropped, consumer spending has dropped and looks to drop further for the rest of the year. No deal means that the financial industry will be hit with massive tariffs totalling billions per year or moving to the EU. These institutions contribute 60bn+ to the UK tax take every year. The UK citizens now favour staying with the EU over leaving and 58% want a referendum on the deal to leave. Your idea that British citzens are determined to leave dont reflect the current reality. So a majority of Brits want to stay,leaving with no deal would cripple the health service, lead to massive 7 figure rises in unemployment, cost the tax base 60bn+, send inflation soaring, destroy your export market and leave you in the economic wilderness for years until you desperately agree deals with other countries. Please wake up and smell the turd that is Brexit. Kindest Regards. | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. Right. And as pointed out to you before your logic is flawed. The EU as a whole has fewer citizens as a percentage of their total population that the UK. You also know that the British immigrants in the EU are generally older than the EU immigrants in the UK. -Matt" And as has been pointed out to you already younger migrants tend to be more of a drain as they are more likely to have kids who require schooling at a cost to the taxpayer, they require more housing and use other public services for a longer period than the older age demographic. | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. Right. And as pointed out to you before your logic is flawed. The EU as a whole has fewer citizens as a percentage of their total population that the UK. You also know that the British immigrants in the EU are generally older than the EU immigrants in the UK. -Matt And as has been pointed out to you already younger migrants tend to be more of a drain as they are more likely to have kids who require schooling at a cost to the taxpayer, they require more housing and use other public services for a longer period than the older age demographic. " And those kids grow up to do.....? -Matt | |||
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"Dear Mr Tusk, My unassuageable impression is that the expectations of you and your fellow EU negotiators are so unrealistically stratospheric as to be destined to lead to the UK breaking off negotiations - for Britain, no deal is most certainly better than acceding to a bad deal. While it is incredible that there are still comments emanating from euroland that the dream of retaining UK within the EC fold is not completely dead (IT IS!), it is equally astounding that EU politicians believe that they hold the stronger hand - THEY DO NOT! The EU needs Britain much more than UK needs the EC and you would do well to consider the outcome for European employment levels if there is no deal. Without an equitable agreement, German car manufacturers and French food & drink companies will suffer very badly. It would be messy, but if the EU team continues to negotiate in bad faith, then adopting the pre-EEC default position of complete disengagement from Brussels would be the most attractive option for Britain. It would be a huge mistake for you and your colleagues to misjudge the determination of the British electorate to withdraw from every strand of European bureaucracy and judiciary which impacts on this country. The suggestion this week that the ECJ should be the final arbiter of UK immigration policy in respect of EC citizens is simply ludicrous, but also very worrying for any observer hoping for an equitable agreement overall. If you overplay your weak hand, you may well impose severe consequences upon the people of Europe whose best interests you and your colleagues are elected to represent. Considerably more insight, intelligence and realism will be required from Brussels negotiators in the months ahead if you wish to secure a reasonable outcome. I know that Eurocrats are still in shock that Britain would actually wish to walk away from their wonderful EC project, but please wake up and smell the coffee. Regards " Cos we British innit - we can survive an we dont want foreigners ruling over us do we?? No deal is da best because the liberal elites will be fucked and once we out of the EU the workers will rise and become RICH. OUT, OUT, OUT because we all know it doesn'y make a blind bit of sense. | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. Right. And as pointed out to you before your logic is flawed. The EU as a whole has fewer citizens as a percentage of their total population that the UK. You also know that the British immigrants in the EU are generally older than the EU immigrants in the UK. -Matt And as has been pointed out to you already younger migrants tend to be more of a drain as they are more likely to have kids who require schooling at a cost to the taxpayer, they require more housing and use other public services for a longer period than the older age demographic. And those kids grow up to do.....? -Matt" Destroy Britain and Britishnessness? | |||
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 I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah  | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah "Ok, thats nice. What about the reality of the situation where the UK absolutely has to have a deal in 21 months time and the EU doesnt feel it requires the UK to prosper? | |||
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"Dear Mr Tusk, My unassuageable impression is that the expectations of you and your fellow EU negotiators are so unrealistically stratospheric as to be destined to lead to the UK breaking off negotiations - for Britain, no deal is most certainly better than acceding to a bad deal. While it is incredible that there are still comments emanating from euroland that the dream of retaining UK within the EC fold is not completely dead (IT IS!), it is equally astounding that EU politicians believe that they hold the stronger hand - THEY DO NOT! The EU needs Britain much more than UK needs the EC and you would do well to consider the outcome for European employment levels if there is no deal. Without an equitable agreement, German car manufacturers and French food & drink companies will suffer very badly. It would be messy, but if the EU team continues to negotiate in bad faith, then adopting the pre-EEC default position of complete disengagement from Brussels would be the most attractive option for Britain. It would be a huge mistake for you and your colleagues to misjudge the determination of the British electorate to withdraw from every strand of European bureaucracy and judiciary which impacts on this country. The suggestion this week that the ECJ should be the final arbiter of UK immigration policy in respect of EC citizens is simply ludicrous, but also very worrying for any observer hoping for an equitable agreement overall. If you overplay your weak hand, you may well impose severe consequences upon the people of Europe whose best interests you and your colleagues are elected to represent. Considerably more insight, intelligence and realism will be required from Brussels negotiators in the months ahead if you wish to secure a reasonable outcome. I know that Eurocrats are still in shock that Britain would actually wish to walk away from their wonderful EC project, but please wake up and smell the coffee. Regards Cos we British innit - we can survive an we dont want foreigners ruling over us do we?? No deal is da best because the liberal elites will be fucked and once we out of the EU the workers will rise and become RICH. OUT, OUT, OUT because we all know it doesn'y make a blind bit of sense." Indeed! Stick it to those fucking elite pigs... oh wait... no just don't try and tax them cos we've heard about a parabole about a bunch of people drinking in a pub and we know what happens when the rich one leaves. But yeah! Stick it to the elites! Rule Britannia! Rule Murdoch! -Matt | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah "TEAM - Together Everyone Achieves More. The real problem that you and many Brexiters have is a completely one dimensional attitude towards all of this and your attitude is that your gang is better than their gang, and we cant have people from their gang knowing anything about our gang - when in reality, there are not two different gangs because if they played together properly, the one big gang would achieve far more together. Certianly more together than the one gang who is bickering, sniping and so full of suspicion and loathing that they cant even see one step ahead. Are you not even remotely concerned that this country has not got a vision of Brexit to get behind? I am a Remainer but i accept that as a country we all have to move forwards and that is going to mean compromise on my part and compromise with other people. There has never been a time in history where a country as divided as our has not moved forwards without compromise - it is the only way. One dimensional chants like.. No deal is better than a bad deal They need us more than we need them We have a strong hand are stupid and divisive and serve no purpose other than to harden attitudes that actually need softening. I would be interested to know how any kind of deal is going to be railroaded by one side or the other? I just cant and wont happen because it will ultimately be a compromised fudge - EVERYONE has too much to lose - most of all the ordinary British people. | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt" Oh you'll see Matt!!! The EU will have collapsed by the morning. It's imminent remember | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. " It'll be handy when all the EU citizens leave.....6% of all doctors in NHS are EU citizens and a larger % of nurses and care workers. Who is going to provide health and care? Semi house trained Brexiteers? Give your head a wobble | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt Oh you'll see Matt!!! The EU will have collapsed by the morning. It's imminent remember "Has it collapsed yet? How about now? Now? -Matt | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
TEAM - Together Everyone Achieves More.
The real problem that you and many Brexiters have is a completely one dimensional attitude towards all of this and your attitude is that your gang is better than their gang, and we cant have people from their gang knowing anything about our gang - when in reality, there are not two different gangs because if they played together properly, the one big gang would achieve far more together. Certianly more together than the one gang who is bickering, sniping and so full of suspicion and loathing that they cant even see one step ahead.
Are you not even remotely concerned that this country has not got a vision of Brexit to get behind? I am a Remainer but i accept that as a country we all have to move forwards and that is going to mean compromise on my part and compromise with other people. There has never been a time in history where a country as divided as our has not moved forwards without compromise - it is the only way.
One dimensional chants like..
No deal is better than a bad deal
They need us more than we need them
We have a strong hand
are stupid and divisive and serve no purpose other than to harden attitudes that actually need softening.
I would be interested to know how any kind of deal is going to be railroaded by one side or the other? I just cant and wont happen because it will ultimately be a compromised fudge - EVERYONE has too much to lose - most of all the ordinary British people."Have faith in your country. Negotiations take a long time and the first year at least will be all about each side positioning themselves. Lots of hot air will come out, means nothing. Sit back, kick off your shoes and relax  | |||
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" Have faith in your country. Negotiations take a long time and the first year at least will be all about each side positioning themselves. Lots of hot air will come out, means nothing. Sit back, kick off your shoes and relax "Thats not how this works. See these are sequenced talks so unless significant progress is made on citizen rights, northern ireland and the divorce bill then you never get to trade and future relationship. Significant progress will mean all the major points agreed and just small, technical details left. Only then can you move on to discuss trade (which should normally take years on its own) and future relationship. And either or both sides could put the deal to a vote. And that vote would have to be held, counted and ratified before March 29th. The Brexit referendum campaign lasted 10 weeks. So as you can see theres very little time to agree phase 1 of the talks. Waiting a year to agree anything could leave you with about 6 months to agree one of the most difficult and complicated trade deals theres ever been (if theres a vote on the deal). The Tories have fucked themselves and the countries negotiating stance. The UK needs a deal and the EU doesnt (despite the Rule Britannia, bulldog spirit, lets dig up Maggie Thatcher and send her to negotiate crowd thinking they'll prevail by virtue of being British). | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt Why don't you ask the directors of BMW Mercedes and VAG? I'm sure they'll enlighten you. Or perhaps those in charge of the EC budget, which will have a massive hole following our departure (which may explain why they are talking about an exit fee)" Do people buy BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Porshe etc. because they are cheap, or because they are status symbols? Would people stop buying them if they became more expensive, or would that even add to their supposed "exclusivity"? | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. " Why don't you tell us the percentages though. You may have noticed that the EU is considerably larger than the UK. Also you might want to consider what those 3m are doing here. I would suggest at least 2m of those are working. How will in impact our economy if we lose 2m workers? | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah "I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else. | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else."Yea but Bolt's not British, is he?  | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
Yea but Bolt's not British, is he? "The reason Bolt wins is his country has faith in him. If Brits just believed then David Davis would beat Bolt in a 100m dash. Similarly if people just believe that the UK will win the arguments in the negotiations then the UK will get a great deal. So on the count of 3 everyone click your heels together and say "Theres no place like Britain" and the UK will magically overcome logic, fact and reality to get a great exit deal. 1...2...3!! | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else."So you have no faith in your country then? | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?"Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail. | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail."The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of"In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work  | |||
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"The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of" Probably the most well thought out post from a Brexiter I've seen so far on Fab, and displaying a depth of knowledge on the subject that few, if any, who voted Leave can equal. Well done! | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work "The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate' | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'"One benefit to reading your posts is that Ive now come to understand how people can make such bad life decisions despite having more than enough information to make better ones
UK has no trade deals, UK is losing tens of thousands of jobs and will lose hundreds of thousands without a deal, UK doesnt have enough time to negotiate and implement any trade deals and hasnt even started formal talks with anyone, UK needs to be allowed remain in customs union for years until they sort out their trade situation, UK stands to lose the majority of their export market without a deal (no trade deals or quotas with EU or anyone else). UKs economy near recession already even though everyone expects a deal, no deal would put it way over the line into devastating recession, NHS cant afford to lose healthcare workers from EU, nor tech workers and other specialised employees from UK business, 1 in 3 manufacturing companies are moving all or part of their operations to the EU.
Have you any answers to these issues? No because there are none. Will you realise that the UK needs a deal? No because youre not bright enough to retain the information from the last paragraph to the end of this one.
Go on,surprise me and actually post a logical answer to the issues facing the UK if they walk away without a deal. If you were smarter you'd look at the posts here over the last few months and see that all Brexiters keep saying are empty lines about Britain being ok because theyre British and having faith in the country and lies that are immediately proved false. Then you might question your own opinion since you're completely unable to justify it to anyone with anything of substance. But you cant and you wont. Youre just not capable of looking at a situation, thats been explained to you repeatedly in terms children could understand, and being able to understand it.
So to help you out lets focus on one part of the issue and that might help it sink in:
The UK has no trade deals with any other country in the world and it will be years until they do. If the EU dont let them stay in the customs union the cost of basically everything skyrockets for British business and consumers. That means businesses close, jobs are lost and people wont be able to afford the things they need.
Now do you understand or do I need to break out the crayons for you? | |||
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"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'"So far I've not seen them negotiate only inform the UK what is going to happen It's about time some realised UK humans offer no more or no less than other European humans The main difference between English humans and French humans is most English humans can't speak French , beyond that France could do everything the UK do The eu gave the UK some financial stuff in exchange for 350 m a week but it is nothing that non UK humans could not do equally I am not saying some UK humans are very talented but they are no more able or talented than some other humans in Europe From eu perspective the UK has now become a competitor who produces nothing that the eu could not , and as such the larger eu has no choice other than not permitting the uk to take eu business. The uk is already working hard on a buy British and Europe will indeed reciprocate UK humans were equal with Europeans statistically and logically when the UK leaves uk humans will no longer be equal even if equally capable they will be marginalised and handicapped Of course a minority of ruthless and most likely wealthy will continue to do well , but general UK health and per capita spending power will continue to wane | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'
So far I've not seen them negotiate only inform the UK what is going to happen
It's about time some realised UK humans offer no more or no less than other European humans
The main difference between English humans and French humans is most English humans can't speak French , beyond that France could do everything the UK do
The eu gave the UK some financial stuff in exchange for 350 m a week but it is nothing that non UK humans could not do equally
I am not saying some UK humans are very talented but they are no more able or talented than some other humans in Europe
From eu perspective the UK has now become a competitor who produces nothing that the eu could not , and as such the larger eu has no choice other than not permitting the uk to take eu business.
The uk is already working hard on a buy British and Europe will indeed reciprocate
UK humans were equal with Europeans statistically and logically when the UK leaves uk humans will no longer be equal even if equally capable they will be marginalised and handicapped
Of course a minority of ruthless and most likely wealthy will continue to do well , but general UK health and per capita spending power will continue to wane
"You mean as has been happening while we've been a part of the EU? And by the way, I am a UK human and a European human | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'
One benefit to reading your posts is that Ive now come to understand how people can make such bad life decisions despite having more than enough information to make better ones
UK has no trade deals, UK is losing tens of thousands of jobs and will lose hundreds of thousands without a deal, UK doesnt have enough time to negotiate and implement any trade deals and hasnt even started formal talks with anyone, UK needs to be allowed remain in customs union for years until they sort out their trade situation, UK stands to lose the majority of their export market without a deal (no trade deals or quotas with EU or anyone else). UKs economy near recession already even though everyone expects a deal, no deal would put it way over the line into devastating recession, NHS cant afford to lose healthcare workers from EU, nor tech workers and other specialised employees from UK business, 1 in 3 manufacturing companies are moving all or part of their operations to the EU.
Have you any answers to these issues? No because there are none. Will you realise that the UK needs a deal? No because youre not bright enough to retain the information from the last paragraph to the end of this one.
Go on,surprise me and actually post a logical answer to the issues facing the UK if they walk away without a deal. If you were smarter you'd look at the posts here over the last few months and see that all Brexiters keep saying are empty lines about Britain being ok because theyre British and having faith in the country and lies that are immediately proved false. Then you might question your own opinion since you're completely unable to justify it to anyone with anything of substance. But you cant and you wont. Youre just not capable of looking at a situation, thats been explained to you repeatedly in terms children could understand, and being able to understand it.
So to help you out lets focus on one part of the issue and that might help it sink in:
The UK has no trade deals with any other country in the world and it will be years until they do. If the EU dont let them stay in the customs union the cost of basically everything skyrockets for British business and consumers. That means businesses close, jobs are lost and people wont be able to afford the things they need.
Now do you understand or do I need to break out the crayons for you?"Sorry, for all your long winded posts you have nothing useful to say. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about. Just continue with the insults if that makes you feel good and cut out the rest | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Sorry, for all your long winded posts you have nothing useful to say. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about. Just continue with the insults if that makes you feel good and cut out the rest" Ha ha, still no answers? Not even an attempt? Its alright the reality is what it is and if you dont realise it now then you will very soon as Davis and May make concession after concession to the EU because the EU is more organised, more efficient and better prepared. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'
So far I've not seen them negotiate only inform the UK what is going to happen
It's about time some realised UK humans offer no more or no less than other European humans
The main difference between English humans and French humans is most English humans can't speak French , beyond that France could do everything the UK do
The eu gave the UK some financial stuff in exchange for 350 m a week but it is nothing that non UK humans could not do equally
I am not saying some UK humans are very talented but they are no more able or talented than some other humans in Europe
From eu perspective the UK has now become a competitor who produces nothing that the eu could not , and as such the larger eu has no choice other than not permitting the uk to take eu business.
The uk is already working hard on a buy British and Europe will indeed reciprocate
UK humans were equal with Europeans statistically and logically when the UK leaves uk humans will no longer be equal even if equally capable they will be marginalised and handicapped
Of course a minority of ruthless and most likely wealthy will continue to do well , but general UK health and per capita spending power will continue to wane
You mean as has been happening while we've been a part of the EU? And by the way, I am a UK human and a European human"Please read what I wrote by using the the word other Europeans after I wrote uk it illustrated I'm fully aware of the geography
The use of European above to mean continental eu Europe was more than implicit . The clear point was we are indeed just humans and it was countering your suggestion that the uk is somehow special and the ground upon which we reside somehow means despite having direct competition from equally capable humans UK stuff will be better
Why you felt illustrating the obvious that you are a human living upon the European tectonic plate eludes me
Nor did you counter my suggestion that , whatever the state of play has been within the eu , once they become a large group competitor the field will be tilted in their direction even more as the UK has nothing unique to offer | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Sorry, for all your long winded posts you have nothing useful to say. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about. Just continue with the insults if that makes you feel good and cut out the rest Ha ha, still no answers? Not even an attempt? Its alright the reality is what it is and if you dont realise it now then you will very soon as Davis and May make concession after concession to the EU because the EU is more organised, more efficient and better prepared." If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Sorry, for all your long winded posts you have nothing useful to say. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about. Just continue with the insults if that makes you feel good and cut out the rest Ha ha, still no answers? Not even an attempt? Its alright the reality is what it is and if you dont realise it now then you will very soon as Davis and May make concession after concession to the EU because the EU is more organised, more efficient and better prepared. If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious" Why would anyone bother responding to this? It's like a bingo card of 'I know nothing about anything relating to the EU or our current situation'. So, standard for a Brexiter, then. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'
So far I've not seen them negotiate only inform the UK what is going to happen
It's about time some realised UK humans offer no more or no less than other European humans
The main difference between English humans and French humans is most English humans can't speak French , beyond that France could do everything the UK do
The eu gave the UK some financial stuff in exchange for 350 m a week but it is nothing that non UK humans could not do equally
I am not saying some UK humans are very talented but they are no more able or talented than some other humans in Europe
From eu perspective the UK has now become a competitor who produces nothing that the eu could not , and as such the larger eu has no choice other than not permitting the uk to take eu business.
The uk is already working hard on a buy British and Europe will indeed reciprocate
UK humans were equal with Europeans statistically and logically when the UK leaves uk humans will no longer be equal even if equally capable they will be marginalised and handicapped
Of course a minority of ruthless and most likely wealthy will continue to do well , but general UK health and per capita spending power will continue to wane
You mean as has been happening while we've been a part of the EU? And by the way, I am a UK human and a European human
Please read what I wrote
by using the the word other Europeans after I wrote uk it illustrated I'm fully aware of the geography
The use of European above to mean continental eu Europe was more than implicit . The clear point was we are indeed just humans and it was countering your suggestion that the uk is somehow special and the ground upon which we reside somehow means despite having direct competition from equally capable humans UK stuff will be better
Why you felt illustrating the obvious that you are a human living upon the European tectonic plate eludes me
Nor did you counter my suggestion that , whatever the state of play has been within the eu , once they become a large group competitor the field will be tilted in their direction even more as the UK has nothing unique to offer "Well for a start I didn't really understand your constant use of the word humans. So what do EU countries have to offer the UK that is unique? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Sorry, for all your long winded posts you have nothing useful to say. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about. Just continue with the insults if that makes you feel good and cut out the rest Ha ha, still no answers? Not even an attempt? Its alright the reality is what it is and if you dont realise it now then you will very soon as Davis and May make concession after concession to the EU because the EU is more organised, more efficient and better prepared. If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious Why would anyone bother responding to this? It's like a bingo card of 'I know nothing about anything relating to the EU or our current situation'. So, standard for a Brexiter, then. "You did | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" Sorry, for all your long winded posts you have nothing useful to say. Basically because you don't know what you're talking about. Just continue with the insults if that makes you feel good and cut out the rest Ha ha, still no answers? Not even an attempt? Its alright the reality is what it is and if you dont realise it now then you will very soon as Davis and May make concession after concession to the EU because the EU is more organised, more efficient and better prepared. If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious Why would anyone bother responding to this? It's like a bingo card of 'I know nothing about anything relating to the EU or our current situation'. So, standard for a Brexiter, then.
You did "I didn't respond to any of your 'points'. I commented on the paucity of your thinking. I'm beginning to see the root of the problem. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'
So far I've not seen them negotiate only inform the UK what is going to happen
It's about time some realised UK humans offer no more or no less than other European humans
The main difference between English humans and French humans is most English humans can't speak French , beyond that France could do everything the UK do
The eu gave the UK some financial stuff in exchange for 350 m a week but it is nothing that non UK humans could not do equally
I am not saying some UK humans are very talented but they are no more able or talented than some other humans in Europe
From eu perspective the UK has now become a competitor who produces nothing that the eu could not , and as such the larger eu has no choice other than not permitting the uk to take eu business.
The uk is already working hard on a buy British and Europe will indeed reciprocate
UK humans were equal with Europeans statistically and logically when the UK leaves uk humans will no longer be equal even if equally capable they will be marginalised and handicapped
Of course a minority of ruthless and most likely wealthy will continue to do well , but general UK health and per capita spending power will continue to wane
You mean as has been happening while we've been a part of the EU? And by the way, I am a UK human and a European human
Please read what I wrote
by using the the word other Europeans after I wrote uk it illustrated I'm fully aware of the geography
The use of European above to mean continental eu Europe was more than implicit . The clear point was we are indeed just humans and it was countering your suggestion that the uk is somehow special and the ground upon which we reside somehow means despite having direct competition from equally capable humans UK stuff will be better
Why you felt illustrating the obvious that you are a human living upon the European tectonic plate eludes me
Nor did you counter my suggestion that , whatever the state of play has been within the eu , once they become a large group competitor the field will be tilted in their direction even more as the UK has nothing unique to offer
Well for a start I didn't really understand your constant use of the word humans. So what do EU countries have to offer the UK that is unique?"Ah perhaps we have found your problem Humans are bipedal primates who are found across the planet , often one will find they form tribes , sometimes geographic , sometimes philosophical , sometimes ideological , some tribes think they deserve more or are better than other humans and this can lead to genocide, theft and bullying x | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I didn't respond to any of your 'points'. I commented on the paucity of your thinking. I'm beginning to see the root of the problem." Ah Your looking in the mirror then | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious" Oh dear God you really still dont understand. Ill simplify this a bit more. The EU has over 100 trade deals that the UK takes advantage of currently. These trade deals are all better than WTO standard trading rules because WTO is least any country can do, its illegal to offer worse terms. If you leave the EU with no deal then you lose all access to the single market AND ALL THE WORLDWIDE TRADE DEALS WITH EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. The rest of the world might be the fastest growing market but you lose all the quotas and improved tarrifs and access that you got with the EU. Every country you export to, every product, every service will be subject to the highest tarrifs in the world which are the WTO tarrifs. And the problems dont end there because now you're outside the EU all your goods now have to be inspected at every border to make sure that you pass conformity checks because you lost those legal agreements when you left the EU as well. What you fail to realise and understand is that leaving the EU doesnt just damage your trade with the EU, it damages your trade with every country. If you had ever actually sat down and considered the ramifications of leaving the EU you'd understand this. But over a year since the referendum and you still dont have any grasp of the subject matter. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious Oh dear God you really still dont understand. Ill simplify this a bit more. The EU has over 100 trade deals that the UK takes advantage of currently. These trade deals are all better than WTO standard trading rules because WTO is least any country can do, its illegal to offer worse terms. If you leave the EU with no deal then you lose all access to the single market AND ALL THE WORLDWIDE TRADE DEALS WITH EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. The rest of the world might be the fastest growing market but you lose all the quotas and improved tarrifs and access that you got with the EU. Every country you export to, every product, every service will be subject to the highest tarrifs in the world which are the WTO tarrifs. And the problems dont end there because now you're outside the EU all your goods now have to be inspected at every border to make sure that you pass conformity checks because you lost those legal agreements when you left the EU as well. What you fail to realise and understand is that leaving the EU doesnt just damage your trade with the EU, it damages your trade with every country. If you had ever actually sat down and considered the ramifications of leaving the EU you'd understand this. But over a year since the referendum and you still dont have any grasp of the subject matter." You're waisting your time with CandM4U. Probably thinks that Sensualtouch15 is French because he lives in Ashby-de-la-Zouch. | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" If that is the case then maybe it's because they need to be because they have more to lose. And I've never read such nonsense as the stuff you come out with about trade deals and the customs union. How much trade does the UK do with the rest of the world already compared to trade with the EU? Which is the fastest growing market? And that is while operating under EU protectionism/restrictions. I suspect deep down you realise that the UK will thrive outside the EU and are more than a little envious Oh dear God you really still dont understand. Ill simplify this a bit more. The EU has over 100 trade deals that the UK takes advantage of currently. These trade deals are all better than WTO standard trading rules because WTO is least any country can do, its illegal to offer worse terms. If you leave the EU with no deal then you lose all access to the single market AND ALL THE WORLDWIDE TRADE DEALS WITH EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. The rest of the world might be the fastest growing market but you lose all the quotas and improved tarrifs and access that you got with the EU. Every country you export to, every product, every service will be subject to the highest tarrifs in the world which are the WTO tarrifs. And the problems dont end there because now you're outside the EU all your goods now have to be inspected at every border to make sure that you pass conformity checks because you lost those legal agreements when you left the EU as well. What you fail to realise and understand is that leaving the EU doesnt just damage your trade with the EU, it damages your trade with every country. If you had ever actually sat down and considered the ramifications of leaving the EU you'd understand this. But over a year since the referendum and you still dont have any grasp of the subject matter." As I said earlier, you just don't understand trade deals or customs and how they work. Goods inspected at every border laughable | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" I didn't respond to any of your 'points'. I commented on the paucity of your thinking. I'm beginning to see the root of the problem. Ah Your looking in the mirror then" My primary school called asking for their insults back This thread is laughable. The degree of blind faith and self delusion is shocking. No faith is better than a bad faith | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
"Never ceases to amaze me how many people have little to no faith in Britain I believe in my country which is why I believe the EU needs us and our amazingness. Team Britain, fuck yeah
I wouldn't have much faith in Bolt to win the 100m if I tied his shoe laces together and made him start 50m behind everyone else.
So you have no faith in your country then?
Instead of framing this in vague empty nationalism why dont you explain to us all how the UK gets a good exit deal instead of telling us that England will prevail.
The UK says to the EU we want a good exit deal otherwise you are fucked. End of
In typical Brexit fashion. A well considered and fully rounded opinion that is bound to work
The EU know it. Otherwise they wouldn't bother to 'negotiate'
So far I've not seen them negotiate only inform the UK what is going to happen
It's about time some realised UK humans offer no more or no less than other European humans
The main difference between English humans and French humans is most English humans can't speak French , beyond that France could do everything the UK do
The eu gave the UK some financial stuff in exchange for 350 m a week but it is nothing that non UK humans could not do equally
I am not saying some UK humans are very talented but they are no more able or talented than some other humans in Europe
From eu perspective the UK has now become a competitor who produces nothing that the eu could not , and as such the larger eu has no choice other than not permitting the uk to take eu business.
The uk is already working hard on a buy British and Europe will indeed reciprocate
UK humans were equal with Europeans statistically and logically when the UK leaves uk humans will no longer be equal even if equally capable they will be marginalised and handicapped
Of course a minority of ruthless and most likely wealthy will continue to do well , but general UK health and per capita spending power will continue to wane
You mean as has been happening while we've been a part of the EU? And by the way, I am a UK human and a European human
Please read what I wrote
by using the the word other Europeans after I wrote uk it illustrated I'm fully aware of the geography
The use of European above to mean continental eu Europe was more than implicit . The clear point was we are indeed just humans and it was countering your suggestion that the uk is somehow special and the ground upon which we reside somehow means despite having direct competition from equally capable humans UK stuff will be better
Why you felt illustrating the obvious that you are a human living upon the European tectonic plate eludes me
Nor did you counter my suggestion that , whatever the state of play has been within the eu , once they become a large group competitor the field will be tilted in their direction even more as the UK has nothing unique to offer
Well for a start I didn't really understand your constant use of the word humans. So what do EU countries have to offer the UK that is unique?
Ah perhaps we have found your problem
Humans are bipedal primates who are found across the planet , often one will find they form tribes , sometimes geographic , sometimes philosophical , sometimes ideological , some tribes think they deserve more or are better than other humans and this can lead to genocide, theft and bullying x
"Are you talking about EU leaders now or just the Germans? | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As I said earlier, you just don't understand trade deals or customs and how they work. Goods inspected at every border laughable"Wow you truly would walk into oblivion thinking that your Union Jack underpants will prevail and save the day. It is unbelievable the state of denial that you and others are in about this. And to accuse others who have stated facts as not knowing what they are talking about??? Facts.... maybe we have too many of those and instead just need invoke the spirit of Winston Churchill? That is what it seems like lol | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As I said earlier, you just don't understand trade deals or customs and how they work. Goods inspected at every border laughable"Yeah you keep throwing that line around that no one else understands but you and yet its pretty conspicuous that you can never explain it yourself. Let me demonstrate how its supposed to work. You make a point: Goods inspected at every border laughable
Once I finish laughing at you I reply:
Of course goods will be inspected.
Then I explain how it works based on facts instead of leaving a baseless point there like so:
The EU, as well as other countries around the world have whats called conformity agreements also known as Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRAs). This allows countries to know that goods that are being imported meet the quality standards, such as safety standards, have been met. This avoids every shipment having to be checked by examining a sample of each one (also known as batch testing).
Then I would possibly point to a link to show that what Im saying is true and that you are entirely wrong:
http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/regulation/document_listing/document_listing_000248.jsp&
Thats a list of examples for pharmaceuticals being imported to the EU and the page specifically mentions that MRAs are used to avoid the need for expensive batch testing.
If need be Ill point out something that should be blindingly obvious to those that can read but that nontheless you'll probably try and use to find fault with the argument:
Obviously the list of agreements for pharmaceuticals is shorter than any other list because of the nature of the standards required for drugs and medical supplies).
Then, because you might not be able to join the dots I would explain the significance of this:
If the UK leaves the EU with no deal they will have opted out of all MRAs across the world. This means that all UK exports will be subject to batch testing in every country or trading bloc. This means hundreds or thousands of pounds will be spent storing and testing shipments on every export until the UK can finalise trade agreements with all the countries/trading blocs.
Once Ive explained this in a manner that even a child could understand Ill re-read the post and try and dumb it down so that even you can understand it.
Then you'll reply with some empty statement with nothing to back it up because theres nothing to argue with here. MRAs exist. No deal means no MRAs. No MRAs means batch testing.
Its a simple idea to follow but I know before I even post it that you wont be able to grasp it. You'll instead sit there and read the post, furrowing your brow in a vain attempt to understand the situation wondering why May hasnt passed a law that converts all anti-Brexit arguments on the internet to the lyrics of Rule Brittania so that you never have to face reality.
And apologies for the length, Im sure that I passed your attention span after the first 3 lines | |||
Reply privately (closed, thread got too big) | |||
" As I said earlier, you just don't understand trade deals or customs and how they work. Goods inspected at every border laughable
Yeah you keep throwing that line around that no one else understands but you and yet its pretty conspicuous that you can never explain it yourself.
Let me demonstrate how its supposed to work.
You make a point:
Goods inspected at every border laughable
Once I finish laughing at you I reply:
Of course goods will be inspected.
Then I explain how it works based on facts instead of leaving a baseless point there like so:
The EU, as well as other countries around the world have whats called conformity agreements also known as Mutual Recognition Agreements (MRAs). This allows countries to know that goods that are being imported meet the quality standards, such as safety standards, have been met. This avoids every shipment having to be checked by examining a sample of each one (also known as batch testing).
Then I would possibly point to a link to show that what Im saying is true and that you are entirely wrong:
http://www.ema.europa.eu/ema/index.jsp?curl=pages/regulation/document_listing/document_listing_000248.jsp&
Thats a list of examples for pharmaceuticals being imported to the EU and the page specifically mentions that MRAs are used to avoid the need for expensive batch testing.
If need be Ill point out something that should be blindingly obvious to those that can read but that nontheless you'll probably try and use to find fault with the argument:
Obviously the list of agreements for pharmaceuticals is shorter than any other list because of the nature of the standards required for drugs and medical supplies).
Then, because you might not be able to join the dots I would explain the significance of this:
If the UK leaves the EU with no deal they will have opted out of all MRAs across the world. This means that all UK exports will be subject to batch testing in every country or trading bloc. This means hundreds or thousands of pounds will be spent storing and testing shipments on every export until the UK can finalise trade agreements with all the countries/trading blocs.
Once Ive explained this in a manner that even a child could understand Ill re-read the post and try and dumb it down so that even you can understand it.
Then you'll reply with some empty statement with nothing to back it up because theres nothing to argue with here. MRAs exist. No deal means no MRAs. No MRAs means batch testing.
Its a simple idea to follow but I know before I even post it that you wont be able to grasp it. You'll instead sit there and read the post, furrowing your brow in a vain attempt to understand the situation wondering why May hasnt passed a law that converts all anti-Brexit arguments on the internet to the lyrics of Rule Brittania so that you never have to face reality.
And apologies for the length, Im sure that I passed your attention span after the first 3 lines "You are wasting your time brother They are running scared and clutching at straws. The writing is on the wall that the UK economy is falling on its face as a direct consequence of brexit but the patriots believe their own spin on things over all else. Human nature, painful to admit you are wrong. It's better to just read the threads for comic value
CandM won't even take my bet on the value of the pound against the euro come September despite being resolutely confident about the roaring success brexit is turning out to be | |||
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" You are wasting your time brother They are running scared and clutching at straws. The writing is on the wall that the UK economy is falling on its face as a direct consequence of brexit but the patriots believe their own spin on things over all else. Human nature, painful to admit you are wrong. It's better to just read the threads for comic value
CandM won't even take my bet on the value of the pound against the euro come September despite being resolutely confident about the roaring success brexit is turning out to be "Will he/she/they ever admit they were wrong? No. As you said its painful for most to admit that. But the fact they wont take your bet means that on at least some level they realise this will be a disaster, particularly without a deal. At some point they'll have no talking points left though. We've already seen the pro Brexit talk here decrease to the point where its just a couple posters who havent given up defending the shambles that is Brexit. The others have given up defending it because they realise that all the facts say it will be a failure. | |||
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" You are wasting your time brother They are running scared and clutching at straws. The writing is on the wall that the UK economy is falling on its face as a direct consequence of brexit but the patriots believe their own spin on things over all else. Human nature, painful to admit you are wrong. It's better to just read the threads for comic value
CandM won't even take my bet on the value of the pound against the euro come September despite being resolutely confident about the roaring success brexit is turning out to be
Will he/she/they ever admit they were wrong? No. As you said its painful for most to admit that. But the fact they wont take your bet means that on at least some level they realise this will be a disaster, particularly without a deal.
At some point they'll have no talking points left though. We've already seen the pro Brexit talk here decrease to the point where its just a couple posters who havent given up defending the shambles that is Brexit. The others have given up defending it because they realise that all the facts say it will be a failure."How can future predictions be facts? Your assumptions are no more factual than mine. On the customs issue the UK has one of the most efficient border/customs controls in the world and 99% of goods coming into the UK from ouside the EU are processed electronically at source and very few physical checks are made. As for superflash and his bet on the Euro he went a bit quiet on that one when the pound started to rise steadily after A50 was invoked after saying that it would collapse then and the only reason it dropped back a bit was the fear that Corbyn could get in. The pound will be stronger by the end of the year for sure as it becomes clear that there is nothing to fear from Brexit and everything to gain  | |||
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" .....,, On the customs issue the UK has one of the most efficient border/customs controls in the world and 99% of goods coming into the UK from ouside the EU are processed electronically at source and very few physical checks are made....., " If you read a couple of posts up, it was explained succinctly why there are few checks now when imports from outside the EU arrive courtesy of trade deals that we already have as EU Members. You are either trolling or you really do live in complete denial of the complicated world that is around you. | |||
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" And as has been pointed out to you already younger migrants tend to be more of a drain as they are more likely to have kids who require schooling at a cost to the taxpayer, they require more housing and use other public services for a longer period than the older age demographic. " oh centaur..... dear centaur.... this is actually the worst case of "spin" you have said in a while.... because it is something the complete opposite of something I quoted to YOU.... so lets please "factcheck" a bit.... The awfully and particularly sad and dirty truth for you is that according to the IFS, actaully people who come here from the EU are net contributors to the UK economy, even after all the stuff you mentioned earlier like extra schools, and health and housing.... because they are still contributing more as a next per person in tax than there average UK equivilant.... they tend to be younger and tend to take up jobs which are higher paid and more skilled and specific.... the other thing is that people don't tend to retire to the uk... so what would be replacing the young people who are at this time in their lives next contributors with are those who tend to be much older, and are at this stage of their lives are not contribuing as much financially.... plus they are more likely at that stage to be not as healthy, so are more of a burden on services such as the nhs.... so not only for example are you not building as many houses because a lot of those people have gone, and you are not having as many teachers, because all of those people have gone, but you actually compound the issue in the nhs where you are having to treat more people, but with less staff because they have gone.... the inconvienient truth is that you are way more like to be treated by someone from an EU country, then you are to be in a hospital bed next to one........... oh... and one list thing, if we are the ones peddling the "we are the one in the upper hand" line.... then surely the deal is better for us... so why spout about no deal? unless we are really looking after the EU after all...... | |||
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" .....,, On the customs issue the UK has one of the most efficient border/customs controls in the world and 99% of goods coming into the UK from ouside the EU are processed electronically at source and very few physical checks are made....., If you read a couple of posts up, it was explained succinctly why there are few checks now when imports from outside the EU arrive courtesy of trade deals that we already have as EU Members. You are either trolling or you really do live in complete denial of the complicated world that is around you." What trade deals are those and who with? | |||
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" .....,, On the customs issue the UK has one of the most efficient border/customs controls in the world and 99% of goods coming into the UK from ouside the EU are processed electronically at source and very few physical checks are made....., If you read a couple of posts up, it was explained succinctly why there are few checks now when imports from outside the EU arrive courtesy of trade deals that we already have as EU Members. You are either trolling or you really do live in complete denial of the complicated world that is around you. What trade deals are those and who with?" If you read the link I posted it lists several trade deals known as MRAs and which countries they are with. Its a short list because its to do with pharmaceuticals and the standards are much higher than basically every other type of product. And to answer your other post Im not making future predictions, Im explaining how things are currently. The UK only has deals for MRAs, tariffs and quotas through the EU. If the UK leaves without a deal with the EU then they have nothing. And replacement deals will take years to agree and then more time to actually implement. This is why the UK has to have a deal with the EU. If they lose out on that then their exports to every single market craters, not just to the EU but every single country on the planet. If they lose those deals then other countries are going to swoop in and take the market share that the UK used to have and then its going to be a huge uphill struggle to get them back. Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. | |||
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" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU." That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As | |||
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" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As" I wonder how they feel now that Davis has admitted that we are likely to need a transitional period of 1-2 years once we leave the EU. You can be pretty certain that that 1-2 years is going to be more like 2-4 years in reality. -Matt | |||
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"You don't even want to entertain that I called you out for lying about the bet candm? "What lie? | |||
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" .....,, On the customs issue the UK has one of the most efficient border/customs controls in the world and 99% of goods coming into the UK from ouside the EU are processed electronically at source and very few physical checks are made....., If you read a couple of posts up, it was explained succinctly why there are few checks now when imports from outside the EU arrive courtesy of trade deals that we already have as EU Members. You are either trolling or you really do live in complete denial of the complicated world that is around you. What trade deals are those and who with? If you read the link I posted it lists several trade deals known as MRAs and which countries they are with. Its a short list because its to do with pharmaceuticals and the standards are much higher than basically every other type of product. And to answer your other post Im not making future predictions, Im explaining how things are currently. The UK only has deals for MRAs, tariffs and quotas through the EU. If the UK leaves without a deal with the EU then they have nothing. And replacement deals will take years to agree and then more time to actually implement. This is why the UK has to have a deal with the EU. If they lose out on that then their exports to every single market craters, not just to the EU but every single country on the planet. If they lose those deals then other countries are going to swoop in and take the market share that the UK used to have and then its going to be a huge uphill struggle to get them back. Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU." So why have we seen big investments made in the UK pharma industry post Brexit? Maybe you should share your expertise and let them know they've made a mistake | |||
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" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As I wonder how they feel now that Davis has admitted that we are likely to need a transitional period of 1-2 years once we leave the EU. You can be pretty certain that that 1-2 years is going to be more like 2-4 years in reality. -Matt" At least. And what's the problem with that? Leaving the EU is about the future | |||
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" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As I wonder how they feel now that Davis has admitted that we are likely to need a transitional period of 1-2 years once we leave the EU. You can be pretty certain that that 1-2 years is going to be more like 2-4 years in reality. -Matt At least. And what's the problem with that? Leaving the EU is about the future" Nothing is wrong with it. It makes a lot of sense. Just know a lot of hardline leavers want out asap and any attempt to try and minimise the damage in this process is deemed somehow a bad thing. Oh, and Davis orginally said we'd have the trade deals all done and dusted by the end of the year. -Matt | |||
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"" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As I wonder how they feel now that Davis has admitted that we are likely to need a transitional period of 1-2 years once we leave the EU. You can be pretty certain that that 1-2 years is going to be more like 2-4 years in reality. -Matt At least. And what's the problem with that? Leaving the EU is about the future" The problem with it is that theres no possibility for the UK to leave without agreeing a deal for the UK, the EU can manage without a deal. That means the EU has all the leverage in the negotiations and the UK has to agree whatever terms that the EU insists upon. You need to get a transitional deal or face economic disaster so the EU can dictate terms on everything because times running out for the UK. The EU on the otherhand can walk away from a deal and take Euro clearing with them, can impose tariffs on everything from bikes, beef, financial services, cars and everything else you export. And that means british based businesses and jobs and the tax revenue that goes with it flocks to the EU. And without any international deals the EU can make a push for the worldwide trade you'll surely miss out on without low tariffs, agreed quotas and MRAs." Yawn. Take a break. What percentage of Irish trade is with the UK again? | |||
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"*sigh* Has anyone yet actually come up with any actual argument as to why the EU need the UK more than the UK need the EU yet? I know there are a number of people on here that keep repeating the sentiment, but I've yet to see any actual reasoning behind it. -Matt On the particular issue that is being concentrated on in the negotiations at the moment the EU has more to lose. The EU has the rights of 3 million of It's citizens to lose, by comparison the UK only has the rights of 1 million of its citizens to lose. Why don't you tell us the percentages though. You may have noticed that the EU is considerably larger than the UK. Also you might want to consider what those 3m are doing here. I would suggest at least 2m of those are working. How will in impact our economy if we lose 2m workers? " 2million tax payers in fact... | |||
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"" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As I wonder how they feel now that Davis has admitted that we are likely to need a transitional period of 1-2 years once we leave the EU. You can be pretty certain that that 1-2 years is going to be more like 2-4 years in reality. -Matt At least. And what's the problem with that? Leaving the EU is about the future" The problem with it is that theres no possibility for the UK to leave without agreeing a deal for the UK, the EU can manage without a deal. That means the EU has all the leverage in the negotiations and the UK has to agree whatever terms that the EU insists upon. You need to get a transitional deal or face economic disaster so the EU can dictate terms on everything because times running out for the UK. The EU on the otherhand can walk away from a deal and take Euro clearing with them, can impose tariffs on everything from bikes, beef, financial services, cars and everything else you export. And that means british based businesses and jobs and the tax revenue that goes with it flocks to the EU. And without any international deals the EU can make a push for the worldwide trade you'll surely miss out on without low tariffs, agreed quotas and MRAs. Yawn. Take a break. What percentage of Irish trade is with the UK again?" Between 16 and 17%. Belgium is a bigger export market for us than the UK. You over estimate your importance to us and the EU. Once more you can only avoid the facts Terrible the way reality keeps dumping on your opinions isnt it? Its almost as if youre completely wrong | |||
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"" Low tariffs, quotas and MRAs are absolutely essential to trade. And you wont have a single one with a single country if you have no deal with the EU. That's exactly what leavers want though, especially the leavers on this forum , no deal and the big fuck you to the EU. Oh and if they didn't know about something like these MRA's etc then they either "don't exist" or we don't need them, whichevers most convenient at the time. As I wonder how they feel now that Davis has admitted that we are likely to need a transitional period of 1-2 years once we leave the EU. You can be pretty certain that that 1-2 years is going to be more like 2-4 years in reality. -Matt At least. And what's the problem with that? Leaving the EU is about the future" The problem with it is that theres no possibility for the UK to leave without agreeing a deal for the UK, the EU can manage without a deal. That means the EU has all the leverage in the negotiations and the UK has to agree whatever terms that the EU insists upon. You need to get a transitional deal or face economic disaster so the EU can dictate terms on everything because times running out for the UK. The EU on the otherhand can walk away from a deal and take Euro clearing with them, can impose tariffs on everything from bikes, beef, financial services, cars and everything else you export. And that means british based businesses and jobs and the tax revenue that goes with it flocks to the EU. And without any international deals the EU can make a push for the worldwide trade you'll surely miss out on without low tariffs, agreed quotas and MRAs. Yawn. Take a break. What percentage of Irish trade is with the UK again? Between 16 and 17%. Belgium is a bigger export market for us than the UK. You over estimate your importance to us and the EU. Once more you can only avoid the facts Terrible the way reality keeps dumping on your opinions isnt it? Its almost as if youre completely wrong "More like 36% and Belgium is bigger because goods go through the port there en route to other countries, so you had best hope that the UK gets a good deal. But as I've said before, no need to worry because we will | |||
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" More like 36% and Belgium is bigger because goods go through the port there en route to other countries, so you had best hope that the UK gets a good deal. But as I've said before, no need to worry because we will" The port youre thinking of us Rotterdam and its in the Netherlands not Belgium. Our main export to Belgium are pharamceuticals. Is it possible for you to get anything right?
Youre becoming a parody of the thick Brexiter who gets basic facts wrong, refuses to answer any of the issues of Brexit and monotonously drones on that you'll get a good deal just because. | |||
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" More like 36% and Belgium is bigger because goods go through the port there en route to other countries, so you had best hope that the UK gets a good deal. But as I've said before, no need to worry because we will The port youre thinking of us Rotterdam and its in the Netherlands not Belgium. Our main export to Belgium are pharamceuticals. Is it possible for you to get anything right?
Youre becoming a parody of the thick Brexiter who gets basic facts wrong, refuses to answer any of the issues of Brexit and monotonously drones on that you'll get a good deal just because."Rotterdam and Antwerp are the main Atlantic ports, especially for container ships. | |||
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" More like 36% and Belgium is bigger because goods go through the port there en route to other countries, so you had best hope that the UK gets a good deal. But as I've said before, no need to worry because we will The port youre thinking of us Rotterdam and its in the Netherlands not Belgium. Our main export to Belgium are pharamceuticals. Is it possible for you to get anything right?
Youre becoming a parody of the thick Brexiter who gets basic facts wrong, refuses to answer any of the issues of Brexit and monotonously drones on that you'll get a good deal just because.
Rotterdam and Antwerp are the main Atlantic ports, especially for container ships. "Should say North Sea ports, rather than Atlantic Ports. One is in The Netherlands, the other is in Belgium. | |||
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" More like 36% and Belgium is bigger because goods go through the port there en route to other countries, so you had best hope that the UK gets a good deal. But as I've said before, no need to worry because we will The port youre thinking of us Rotterdam and its in the Netherlands not Belgium. Our main export to Belgium are pharamceuticals. Is it possible for you to get anything right?
Youre becoming a parody of the thick Brexiter who gets basic facts wrong, refuses to answer any of the issues of Brexit and monotonously drones on that you'll get a good deal just because.
Rotterdam and Antwerp are the main Atlantic ports, especially for container ships.
Should say North Sea ports, rather than Atlantic Ports.
One is in The Netherlands, the other is in Belgium."I think that someone is becoming a parody of a thick remainer, or would be if he'd had any say in the matter. And Belgium must be one poorly country to need all those Irish pharmaceuticals. Maybe it's all the chips they eat | |||
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" More like 36% and Belgium is bigger because goods go through the port there en route to other countries, so you had best hope that the UK gets a good deal. But as I've said before, no need to worry because we will The port youre thinking of us Rotterdam and its in the Netherlands not Belgium. Our main export to Belgium are pharamceuticals. Is it possible for you to get anything right?
Youre becoming a parody of the thick Brexiter who gets basic facts wrong, refuses to answer any of the issues of Brexit and monotonously drones on that you'll get a good deal just because.
Rotterdam and Antwerp are the main Atlantic ports, especially for container ships.
Should say North Sea ports, rather than Atlantic Ports.
One is in The Netherlands, the other is in Belgium.
I think that someone is becoming a parody of a thick remainer, or would be if he'd had any say in the matter. And Belgium must be one poorly country to need all those Irish pharmaceuticals. Maybe it's all the chips they eat"I dunno, is 'Irish pharmaceuticals' a euphemism for Guinness? Cos, I think the Belgiums have been making covered 
-Matt | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave." *sigh* this really is getting tedious. Yes, the UK would be the EUs largest export market for goods if we left. If you take total trade (goods plus services) then it is not quite so clear cut. But either way... it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. In 2015 the EU had a total intra-EU trade of something like 3 trillion euros. The UK imported something like 300 billion euros worth of trade from the EU. So the UK represents about 1/10th of the EU's trade. the EU represents about half of ours. So who will leaving hurt more? The body that the action adversely affects 50% of it's trade or the one that it affects 10% of it's trade? But, hey, so what.... Leavers keep claiming that WTO rules are fine and that if we leave it won't hurt us at all. So by that token it won't hurt the EU either right? -Matt | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave. *sigh* this really is getting tedious. Yes, the UK would be the EUs largest export market for goods if we left. If you take total trade (goods plus services) then it is not quite so clear cut. But either way... it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. In 2015 the EU had a total intra-EU trade of something like 3 trillion euros. The UK imported something like 300 billion euros worth of trade from the EU. So the UK represents about 1/10th of the EU's trade. the EU represents about half of ours. So who will leaving hurt more? The body that the action adversely affects 50% of it's trade or the one that it affects 10% of it's trade? But, hey, so what.... Leavers keep claiming that WTO rules are fine and that if we leave it won't hurt us at all. So by that token it won't hurt the EU either right? -Matt" Misrepresenting the facts as usual, filling it out with pure waffle and spin. Less than half our exports are to EU... but those export sales are only just over 10% of our economy. We sell more to OTHER export markets. We are their largest single export market. They are not ours, and export of good isn't even our main game but it is theirs | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? " Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/ | |||
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"I get that you suffer from confirmation bias, have your own special interest and subscribe entirely to the mainstream media with its political sponsors and false narrative BUT Surely common sense and self evident facts weigh in? Do you see millions of EU made cars on our roads? Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Our supermarkets are filled with EU imports. Are EU supermarkets fillled with British produce? Is there equivalent, British supermarket chains all over the EU on the scail of Aldi, Lidl et al here? Wake up." "Subscribe entirely to the mainstream media"? Oh, please. Just stop talking before you dig yourself any further. You make a big bluster about trade volumes, despite previously being proven that you don't understand what you are talking about. You are saying that only a small proportion of our revenue is trade with the EU. That is true. But know what? The UK is an EVEN SMALLER percentage of the EUs total trade. This is the bit you still don't get. You keep saying the EU will collapse due to the UK leaving. It won't. The EU countries are in a far better position to weather this out than the UK is. Exports to the UK account for something like 3% of the GDP of the EU countries combined. And yet again you seem to contradict yourself. You think that the UK doesn't export any vehicles compared to the EU, yet somehow think that is a good thing? Make up your mind. Yes, Brexit will be an expensive and painful process for EU industry. The German car market you point to would rather we didn't leave, I'm sure. But you know what? Do you think brits buy Mercs, BMWs etc because they are cheap? No. Cost is not why they are bought. Will they sell less if the price goes up? Most likely.Will European motor manufacturers decide to focus more investment in mainland European operations than in the UK? Most likely. Will they move production out of the UK? Perhaps. Who knows. But if they did, who would it hurt most? Yes the UK. -Matt | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/" Laughable! You quote a figure of less than a million and somehow you think you won the argument. Like how labour had such a success losing the election and how it such a defeat for the government who retained power, this time with the PM Democratically elected. I see the pattern of your thinking and you need help. | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave." The EU is the largest market for UK exports. We take 48%. So yes theres 52% that goes elsewhere. The UK is ~10% of the EUs exports. So 90% goes elsewhere. If you were a business would you rather lose 48% of your sales or ~10%? Without a transitional deal the UK has no trade deals, no reduced tariffs, no quotas and no MRAs so you'll lose a huge chunk of your worldwide exports. | |||
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"Nope, we proved YOU and the remainers don't understand. They sell more to us than we sell to them. We are their biggest customer and they are not ours. That's simple enough for you isn't it? Surely?" Yes, it is simple. And that is the problem. It is so simple that it misses the point. I fully understand that they sell more to us than we do to them. But the ratio of trade to each other is not as important as the ratio of that trade to our own GDP or total trade volume. Someone else explained it something along these lines, maybe explaining it again will help you: If I were to be in some negotiation with Bill Gates and if I were to talk away it would cost me £20,000, but if he were to talk away it would cost him £50,000.... who has the upper hand? I'll give you a hint, I have considerably less in my bank balance than Bill Gates does. Your thinking is that I'm in a better position as he would lose more if he walks away as £50K is more than £20K. The reality is, me losing £20K is going to hurt me a lot more than him losing £50K. -Matt | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/ Laughable! You quote a figure of less than a million and somehow you think you won the argument. Like how labour had such a success losing the election and how it such a defeat for the government who retained power, this time with the PM Democratically elected. I see the pattern of your thinking and you need help." You are unbelievable. I can understand people not following long and winding arguments, but the above was a pretty short and simple question. You asked: "Are there millions of British made cars in the EU?" to which the reply was: "758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU". -Matt | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave." Sometimes a post just stops me dead in my tracks and I think wow... just wow. And I understand why people voted for Brexit if this is the level that the bar is at. | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave. Sometimes a post just stops me dead in my tracks and I think wow... just wow. And I understand why people voted for Brexit if this is the level that the bar is at." Great point. Almost as convincing as labours election "success"  | |||
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"If they don't do as they are told, we impose tariffs on their goods that make them uncompetitive. It's as simple as that. That will destroy the EU. How long will the Spanish Dutch and Italians throw away rotting produce? Who will buy all those cars if we don't? We can buy stuff from more competitive markets like the US and china who would love our custom. " Ok. So firstly, strictly speaking, imposing punitive tarrifs is against WTO rules. But assuming we could wiggle around that (likely if we wanted to), then what is to stop the EU doing the same? Take your argument to its full conclusion, and if the UK were to make imports from the EU so uncompetitive that we bought absolutely nothing from them and they in turn did the same to us then we a back to the argument above. The UK lose 12% of its export GDP and the EU lose 3% of theirs. Again, who hurts more? And that doesn't factor into account that in that high-tarrif scenario, the EU still have the ability to trade tarriff-free internally and to all the countries they alread have FTAs with. We would have tarrifs applied to all our exports under WTO rules if we exported to China and America as you suggest. Unless we get a free-trade agreement with them, which is unlikely in the next 10 years at least. -Matt | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/ Laughable! You quote a figure of less than a million and somehow you think you won the argument. Like how labour had such a success losing the election and how it such a defeat for the government who retained power, this time with the PM Democratically elected. I see the pattern of your thinking and you need help." I honestly recommend reading the replies you get, and thinking about them for more than two seconds before you hit reply. | |||
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"I get that you suffer from confirmation bias, have your own special interest and subscribe entirely to the mainstream media with its political sponsors and false narrative BUT Surely common sense and self evident facts weigh in? Do you see millions of EU made cars on our roads? Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Our supermarkets are filled with EU imports. Are EU supermarkets fillled with British produce? Is there equivalent, British supermarket chains all over the EU on the scail of Aldi, Lidl et al here? Wake up." Good point, shame you seem to miss the implications of this and other pro brexit posts. Do we export more cars to the EU than we import. True. Can the EU cope with losing that supply of new cars, and can the EU motor industry absorb their export lossed by diverting the production to fill the gap left when our products become too expensive for the market (that's what protectionist tariffs do). I would suggest they can and will have to expand production to meet the new need. So in that case that would be an EU win... Do we import vast quantities of food from the EU? Of course we do, just go into any supermarket and look at how much of the fresh produce is produced on the continent. Now ask the same questions as above... Who is up for a little hunger? Any volunteers for malnutrition? How's starvation looking as an option to teach the EU a lesson? We import over 50% of our food do you really think there is a magic food tree that we can go to and get a cheap and plentiful supply of food to replace that that comes from the EU? Or do you think the rest of the world will see our need and put prices up (the laws of supply and demand)? Or do you think the government will rub their hands in glee as we continue to buy EU food produce but now with an extra import tariff (tax) that will further inflate food prices, leading to inflation and back to the inflationary spiral of the 70's that required joining the Common Market in the first place to break? I would suggest that regardless of how you view brexit only a totally delusional fool would suggest that reducing our supply of cheap quality food is of benefit to the UK or compare attempt to compare luxury consumable goods with life sustaining essentials. Again just my thoughts, and I realise they have little value. | |||
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"If they don't do as they are told, we impose tariffs on their goods that make them uncompetitive. It's as simple as that. That will destroy the EU. How long will the Spanish Dutch and Italians throw away rotting produce? Who will buy all those cars if we don't? We can buy stuff from more competitive markets like the US and china who would love our custom. Ok. So firstly, strictly speaking, imposing punitive tarrifs is against WTO rules. But assuming we could wiggle around that (likely if we wanted to), then what is to stop the EU doing the same? Take your argument to its full conclusion, and if the UK were to make imports from the EU so uncompetitive that we bought absolutely nothing from them and they in turn did the same to us then we a back to the argument above. The UK lose 12% of its export GDP and the EU lose 3% of theirs. Again, who hurts more? And that doesn't factor into account that in that high-tarrif scenario, the EU still have the ability to trade tarriff-free internally and to all the countries they alread have FTAs with. We would have tarrifs applied to all our exports under WTO rules if we exported to China and America as you suggest. Unless we get a free-trade agreement with them, which is unlikely in the next 10 years at least. -Matt" Your still misrepresenting the situation. Key member states rely on our custom more than we do. We buy 18% of all the cars Germany alone exports. We buy a huge chunk of frances too. "3% of theirs" is misleading because it's actually almost a fifth of all the cars Germany sells. We are the biggest buyer, the single largest export market for German cars and the largest export market for the EU over all. | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/ Laughable! You quote a figure of less than a million and somehow you think you won the argument. Like how labour had such a success losing the election and how it such a defeat for the government who retained power, this time with the PM Democratically elected. I see the pattern of your thinking and you need help. I honestly recommend reading the replies you get, and thinking about them for more than two seconds before you hit reply. " Coming from you? Who decides to google and see if he can argue that we sell as many cars as the EU? And says plainly that a figure of less than a million supports his claim despite Germany's car exports ALONE being worth over 150 billion a year... seriously lol | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave. Sometimes a post just stops me dead in my tracks and I think wow... just wow. And I understand why people voted for Brexit if this is the level that the bar is at." I voted for brexit, but in my defence I did it because of attitudes like that shown above. I am a Europhile, I believe the EU not only needs to continue its journey to unification but needs to accelerate the process. I believe that the EU does need us, but not as much as we need the EU. I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU we are doing the EU great damage remaining in the Union with all our special treatment. Therefore I reluctantly came to the conclusion that we need to leave. We need to see food prices rocket, we need to see the City of London collapse, we need to see all the international billionaires oligarchs who have seen this country as a great party for the last 25/30 years decide the party is over and move themselves and their wealth to the European mainland and then when we are truly on our knees we need to re enter the EU as a normal member with no special status or treatment embracing the EU fully... Again nothing more than my opinion for what little it is worth. | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/ Laughable! You quote a figure of less than a million and somehow you think you won the argument. Like how labour had such a success losing the election and how it such a defeat for the government who retained power, this time with the PM Democratically elected. I see the pattern of your thinking and you need help. I honestly recommend reading the replies you get, and thinking about them for more than two seconds before you hit reply. Coming from you? Who decides to google and see if he can argue that we sell as many cars as the EU? And says plainly that a figure of less than a million supports his claim despite Germany's car exports ALONE being worth over 150 billion a year... seriously lol" I think you need to get to Specsavers. You are seeing things that are just not there. No-one has suggested that we sell as many cars as the EU. The only point above was you asking 'are there millions of UK cars on the roads in the EU' and the answer coming back as basically 'yes, most likely'. Anything else is a strawman argument that you have decided to invent. -Matt | |||
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"If they don't do as they are told, we impose tariffs on their goods that make them uncompetitive. It's as simple as that. That will destroy the EU. How long will the Spanish Dutch and Italians throw away rotting produce? Who will buy all those cars if we don't? We can buy stuff from more competitive markets like the US and china who would love our custom. Ok. So firstly, strictly speaking, imposing punitive tarrifs is against WTO rules. But assuming we could wiggle around that (likely if we wanted to), then what is to stop the EU doing the same? Take your argument to its full conclusion, and if the UK were to make imports from the EU so uncompetitive that we bought absolutely nothing from them and they in turn did the same to us then we a back to the argument above. The UK lose 12% of its export GDP and the EU lose 3% of theirs. Again, who hurts more? And that doesn't factor into account that in that high-tarrif scenario, the EU still have the ability to trade tarriff-free internally and to all the countries they alread have FTAs with. We would have tarrifs applied to all our exports under WTO rules if we exported to China and America as you suggest. Unless we get a free-trade agreement with them, which is unlikely in the next 10 years at least. -Matt Your still misrepresenting the situation. Key member states rely on our custom more than we do. We buy 18% of all the cars Germany alone exports. We buy a huge chunk of frances too. "3% of theirs" is misleading because it's actually almost a fifth of all the cars Germany sells. We are the biggest buyer, the single largest export market for German cars and the largest export market for the EU over all." "Key member states rely on our custom more than we do" is untrue. Spin it however you like, but the facts and figures show that exports from the EU to the UK represent a far lower percentage of the EUs total GDP than the other way around. Even if you wanted to make it about specific key states in the EU and the car market, that fails too as the Germany Auto industry has already said that the stability of the EU27 is more important for them than the UK. Only 7% of German exports go to the UK. And as said before, people are unlikely to stop buying Mercs and BMWs completely all of a sudden if they get a bit more expensive. Oh, and you want to get even more complicated? Many FTAs require a 'rule of origin' in which at least a certain percentage, e.g. 55% of the product is sourced locally. The average UK manufactured car only have something like 41% of its components sourced domestically. So would not be classed as locally produced in the eyes of many existing FTAs out there. Not that the UK actually have any FTAs of their own. -Matt | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave. Sometimes a post just stops me dead in my tracks and I think wow... just wow. And I understand why people voted for Brexit if this is the level that the bar is at. I voted for brexit, but in my defence I did it because of attitudes like that shown above. I am a Europhile, I believe the EU not only needs to continue its journey to unification but needs to accelerate the process. I believe that the EU does need us, but not as much as we need the EU. I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU we are doing the EU great damage remaining in the Union with all our special treatment. Therefore I reluctantly came to the conclusion that we need to leave. We need to see food prices rocket, we need to see the City of London collapse, we need to see all the international billionaires oligarchs who have seen this country as a great party for the last 25/30 years decide the party is over and move themselves and their wealth to the European mainland and then when we are truly on our knees we need to re enter the EU as a normal member with no special status or treatment embracing the EU fully... Again nothing more than my opinion for what little it is worth." Harsh. But I understand your reasoning. I think you are the first leave voter who I've discussed this with who actually has an opinion that stands up to longer than 30 seconds of scrutiny! -Matt | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave. Sometimes a post just stops me dead in my tracks and I think wow... just wow. And I understand why people voted for Brexit if this is the level that the bar is at. I voted for brexit, but in my defence I did it because of attitudes like that shown above. I am a Europhile, I believe the EU not only needs to continue its journey to unification but needs to accelerate the process. I believe that the EU does need us, but not as much as we need the EU. I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU we are doing the EU great damage remaining in the Union with all our special treatment. Therefore I reluctantly came to the conclusion that we need to leave. We need to see food prices rocket, we need to see the City of London collapse, we need to see all the international billionaires oligarchs who have seen this country as a great party for the last 25/30 years decide the party is over and move themselves and their wealth to the European mainland and then when we are truly on our knees we need to re enter the EU as a normal member with no special status or treatment embracing the EU fully... Again nothing more than my opinion for what little it is worth. Harsh. But I understand your reasoning. I think you are the first leave voter who I've discussed this with who actually has an opinion that stands up to longer than 30 seconds of scrutiny! -Matt" When you say scrutiny you actually mean straw man arguments and cognitive dissonance | |||
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" I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU ." A lot of people who voted for Brexit have. A lot remember life and our countries history before 1973. We traded and travelled pretty well if you look into it | |||
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" I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU . A lot of people who voted for Brexit have. A lot remember life and our countries history before 1973. We traded and travelled pretty well if you look into it "Oh yeah. It was great. Remember when you were only allowed to take £50.00 abroad and had to have your passport marked with the amount. (Around £700.00 in todays terms.) Oh how we all laughed at the Germans who seemed to have tons of cash. The fools! Spending all that money on holiday. We plucky Brits managed to scrape by on £50.00. It was GREAT. | |||
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"Oh and it's worth bearing in mind that the only reason UK car exports have risen is the pound falling. In other words we are selling them cheap rather than profitably. " Well, that's all good then. Far better to sell things cheap rather than worry about silly things like profit. | |||
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"To clarify for you... when I asked if there a millions of cars in EU it's only logical I'm talking about new cars. You can't massage new car imports from uk by adding previous years sales "You asked "Are there millions of British made cars in the EU?" To which the answer is yes. If you meant to ask 'Does the UK export millions of car to the EU annually?' then that is a different question and not the one you asked. -Matt | |||
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"Oh and it's worth bearing in mind that the only reason UK car exports have risen is the pound falling. In other words we are selling them cheap rather than profitably. " I thought you were meant to be arguing that Brexit is a good thing? -Matt | |||
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"I get that you suffer from confirmation bias, have your own special interest and subscribe entirely to the mainstream media with its political sponsors and false narrative BUT Surely common sense and self evident facts weigh in? Do you see millions of EU made cars on our roads? Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Our supermarkets are filled with EU imports. Are EU supermarkets fillled with British produce? Is there equivalent, British supermarket chains all over the EU on the scail of Aldi, Lidl et al here? Wake up. "Subscribe entirely to the mainstream media"? Oh, please. Just stop talking before you dig yourself any further. You make a big bluster about trade volumes, despite previously being proven that you don't understand what you are talking about. You are saying that only a small proportion of our revenue is trade with the EU. That is true. But know what? The UK is an EVEN SMALLER percentage of the EUs total trade. This is the bit you still don't get. You keep saying the EU will collapse due to the UK leaving. It won't. The EU countries are in a far better position to weather this out than the UK is. Exports to the UK account for something like 3% of the GDP of the EU countries combined. And yet again you seem to contradict yourself. You think that the UK doesn't export any vehicles compared to the EU, yet somehow think that is a good thing? Make up your mind. Yes, Brexit will be an expensive and painful process for EU industry. The German car market you point to would rather we didn't leave, I'm sure. But you know what? Do you think brits buy Mercs, BMWs etc because they are cheap? No. Cost is not why they are bought. Will they sell less if the price goes up? Most likely.Will European motor manufacturers decide to focus more investment in mainland European operations than in the UK? Most likely. Will they move production out of the UK? Perhaps. Who knows. But if they did, who would it hurt most? Yes the UK. -Matt" | |||
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"Are there millions of British made cars in the EU? Well, the below linked article quotes 758,680 cars exported to the EU last year. So yes, adding up several years of exports there probably are millions of British cars in the EU. It's where more than half our cars go, so we should probably be a little bit concerned of the effects of Brexit there. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/01/17-year-high-british-car-manufacturing-global-demand-hits-record-levels/ Laughable! You quote a figure of less than a million and somehow you think you won the argument. Like how labour had such a success losing the election and how it such a defeat for the government who retained power, this time with the PM Democratically elected. I see the pattern of your thinking and you need help. I honestly recommend reading the replies you get, and thinking about them for more than two seconds before you hit reply. Coming from you? Who decides to google and see if he can argue that we sell as many cars as the EU? And says plainly that a figure of less than a million supports his claim despite Germany's car exports ALONE being worth over 150 billion a year... seriously lol" Yes, seriously lol. Except for the small fact that I wasn't claiming we sell as many cars as the EU. I was specifically addressing your point that there are not millions of UK produced cars in the EU. What you've done is change the argument and try and claim victory on a different point. So you're either dishonest or cannot remember your own arguments, you can pick. | |||
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"Britain is the EUs single largest export market. I could rest my case there if the remainers had even the slightest grip on reality... but there's more... Britain already exports more to non EU markets than to the EU, so they aren't our largest market - they only represent just over a tenth of our economy. Without Britain, the EU will sink and all the rats will leave. Sometimes a post just stops me dead in my tracks and I think wow... just wow. And I understand why people voted for Brexit if this is the level that the bar is at. I voted for brexit, but in my defence I did it because of attitudes like that shown above. I am a Europhile, I believe the EU not only needs to continue its journey to unification but needs to accelerate the process. I believe that the EU does need us, but not as much as we need the EU. I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU we are doing the EU great damage remaining in the Union with all our special treatment. Therefore I reluctantly came to the conclusion that we need to leave. We need to see food prices rocket, we need to see the City of London collapse, we need to see all the international billionaires oligarchs who have seen this country as a great party for the last 25/30 years decide the party is over and move themselves and their wealth to the European mainland and then when we are truly on our knees we need to re enter the EU as a normal member with no special status or treatment embracing the EU fully... Again nothing more than my opinion for what little it is worth. Harsh. But I understand your reasoning. I think you are the first leave voter who I've discussed this with who actually has an opinion that stands up to longer than 30 seconds of scrutiny! -Matt When you say scrutiny you actually mean straw man arguments and cognitive dissonance "No, I mean his reasoning is based pretty much on his beliefs long term and his opinions. It is not based on mis-quoting figures he doesn't understand. Whether or not I agree on the opinion above, none of it can be proved to be factually incorrect. -Matt | |||
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" Oh yeah. It was great. Remember when you were only allowed to take £50.00 abroad and had to have your passport marked with the amount. (Around £700.00 in todays terms.) Oh how we all laughed at the Germans who seemed to have tons of cash. The fools! Spending all that money on holiday. We plucky Brits managed to scrape by on £50.00. It was GREAT. " Yep, average wage after tax £20 pw cost of a pair of levi or wrangler jeans £25 because of import duties... Cant wait to get back to the realities of life outside the EU... But at least I know exactly what I voted for, I feel sorry for the schmucks who genuinely believe a land of milk and honey awaits us and Nige is a modern day Moses leading us out of the bonds of slavery to Brussels and into the promised land. (Admittedly Nige has already said that when it goes tits up (like his marriage) he intends to fuckoffsky rappidly... Nothing like seeing such confidence from the high priest of brexit. | |||
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"No, I mean his reasoning is based pretty much on his beliefs long term and his opinions. It is not based on mis-quoting figures he doesn't understand. Whether or not I agree on the opinion above, none of it can be proved to be factually incorrect. -Matt" I like this! I agree 100% with what you say. I started as a staunch reminder, I did the same where Scottish independance was concerned but in both campaigns I changed my mind. In the case of Scotland I hoped they voted out and that the rest of the UK would quickly learn from watching the collapse of Scotland outside the EU that political rhetoric is not fact and one needs to listen to those with power not those who say what you want to hear. But that did not happen and I watched the UK buy in to the same shit that the Scotts had the good sense to reject in the end and eventually decided that it would be less damaging to the EU for us to leave now than continue to act as the USA's fifth column inside the union. I hope that as the reality of brexit hits the population of the UK it will reject the policies and politicians that have brought us to this pass. But to be honest I think we are the lobster being brought unknowingly to a low boil prior to being the main course in a slap up Tory brexit feast. | |||
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"To clarify for you... when I asked if there a millions of cars in EU it's only logical I'm talking about new cars. You can't massage new car imports from uk by adding previous years sales "There are various holes in your argument that Swiss cheese would be proud of... For example... supply lines for these British cars aren't just based in Britain Also the German car industry aren't as scared as you think because people are going to buy certain cars regardless of the tariffs put on them.... it might make a small dent at the budget end... but at the top ends the car manufacturers aren't going to be the ones eating the increases... it will be the uk buyers | |||
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"The EU totals don't matter. We do most of our trade with 3 or 4 member states where our market represents more like 18% of their exports. Those members are, as a result of huge sales to us and to a lesser extent, other states, the most powerful EU members who hold the power in the EU. I'm not seeing things. I'm seeing twisting and spin. I pointed out, factually, that car exports to the uk are a much bigger part of Germany's economy than uk car sales to the EU are to us. None of the drivel and waffle changes that. Quoting a figure of a single years sales proves you are wrong because we are obviously talking about new cars each year. It's just ridiculous to have to point this out to you when you knew it when you posted the disingenuous shite lol" By your argument then, we held the most power in the EU? So why did we feel that we had no power and that our position was a waste of time? Whatever the outcome of that point, it applies equally to those who you know say hold most power. | |||
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" I also believe that until we experience the reality of life outside the EU . A lot of people who voted for Brexit have. A lot remember life and our countries history before 1973. We traded and travelled pretty well if you look into it "The European Union did not exist then. We travelled to individual countries in the Common Narket and each had their own immigration rules. Post Brexit, it is entirely conceivable that we will have more restrictions entering the EU than Turkey does because At least Turkey is part of the customs union and seemingly we will be out, out, out of that as well. Accepted the customs union has nothing to do with immigration but the point being that Turkey would have closer links to the EU thanBritain. | |||
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"No, I mean his reasoning is based pretty much on his beliefs long term and his opinions. It is not based on mis-quoting figures he doesn't understand. Whether or not I agree on the opinion above, none of it can be proved to be factually incorrect. -Matt I like this! I agree 100% with what you say. I started as a staunch reminder, I did the same where Scottish independance was concerned but in both campaigns I changed my mind. In the case of Scotland I hoped they voted out and that the rest of the UK would quickly learn from watching the collapse of Scotland outside the EU that political rhetoric is not fact and one needs to listen to those with power not those who say what you want to hear. But that did not happen and I watched the UK buy in to the same shit that the Scotts had the good sense to reject in the end and eventually decided that it would be less damaging to the EU for us to leave now than continue to act as the USA's fifth column inside the union. I hope that as the reality of brexit hits the population of the UK it will reject the policies and politicians that have brought us to this pass. But to be honest I think we are the lobster being brought unknowingly to a low boil prior to being the main course in a slap up Tory brexit feast. " Indeed. I voted remain, but I currently think we do need to now leave the EU. I don't think it is good that we are leaving the EU. I think it will damage our country tremendously. But I think now that we have started on this course I think it needs to be seen through. Similarly why I'm glad labour did not win the election. Ideally I would have loved them to have won it, but the Tories have got us in this mess and they now need to take responsibility for it. So yes, I think we now need to leave the EU. But I am under no illusion just how much economic, social, and cultural damage it will do to the UK. -Matt | |||
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"To clarify for you... when I asked if there a millions of cars in EU it's only logical I'm talking about new cars. You can't massage new car imports from uk by adding previous years sales
You asked "Are there millions of British made cars in the EU?"
To which the answer is yes.
If you meant to ask 'Does the UK export millions of car to the EU annually?' then that is a different question and not the one you asked.
-Matt"I said in a discussion about car exports. That means my question about new cars. Why would I mean old cars? We are talking about export sales. | |||
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"The EU totals don't matter. We do most of our trade with 3 or 4 member states where our market represents more like 18% of their exports. Those members are, as a result of huge sales to us and to a lesser extent, other states, the most powerful EU members who hold the power in the EU. I'm not seeing things. I'm seeing twisting and spin. I pointed out, factually, that car exports to the uk are a much bigger part of Germany's economy than uk car sales to the EU are to us. None of the drivel and waffle changes that. Quoting a figure of a single years sales proves you are wrong because we are obviously talking about new cars each year. It's just ridiculous to have to point this out to you when you knew it when you posted the disingenuous shite lol By your argument then, we held the most power in the EU? So why did we feel that we had no power and that our position was a waste of time? Whatever the outcome of that point, it applies equally to those who you know say hold most power." British establishment and corporations "held the most power" and benefited from EU membership. Cheap workers from EU, dodgy backhanded subsidies, factories in poor member states making British products. It was the working class who see mass immigration on their door step and wages impacted and redundancy... they voted for Brexit | |||
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"Nope, we proved YOU and the remainers don't understand. They sell more to us than we sell to them. We are their biggest customer and they are not ours. That's simple enough for you isn't it? Surely?" Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. " About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves. | |||
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"About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves. "True... Any comments on how we have gone from 5th largest individual economy in the world to the 6th being overtaken by France (a part of the largest economy in the world) in the last 12 months? Will you admit that the only thing to have changed that would effect our economy negatively and not France is brexit? | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. There are 80 countries that have the EU as their largest trading partner. Eighty. Its GDP is 19.9 Trillion, only 240 billion is exported to the UK. Exports to the UK are 1.4% of our economy. The UKs gdp is 2.8 trillion and its exports to the EU are 230 billion. Exports to the EU are 8.25% of the UK economy. 46% of Britains exports are to the EU. 8% of the EUs are to the UK. The EU has free trade agreements with 50 countries. The UK has none. The EU has 125 trade agreements in total. The UK has zero. If the UK has no transitional deal with the EU it loses all its trade quotas, MRAs, free trade with 50 countries, the benefits of 125 trade agreements and all its imports and exports will be subject to higher tariffs for almost every country it trades with including all of the top 40 countries it currently trades with. The EU will lose some of the 1.4 % of its economy it exports to the UK, but since every country the UK importa from will face the same tariffs the EU will its debateable how much they'll lose." But we can change the colour of our passports, yay! | |||
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"But we can change the colour of our passports, yay! " Very important that... We are taking back control... "Land of hope and glory" "Rule Britannia, Britannia rules the waves (If the French will lend us an aircraft carrier, some carrier planes and carrier trained pilots)", and Mr Trump will lend us an AWACS and retask a satellite or two for us.... | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves. "Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain. Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030." It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy. | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
"If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving? | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving? "Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave. | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving?
Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave. "I think you mean YOU have never seen it like that, many do still see the value in peace projects. It's quite sad that you feel that peace no longer has value.  | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. There are 80 countries that have the EU as their largest trading partner. Eighty. Its GDP is 19.9 Trillion, only 240 billion is exported to the UK. Exports to the UK are 1.4% of our economy. The UKs gdp is 2.8 trillion and its exports to the EU are 230 billion. Exports to the EU are 8.25% of the UK economy. 46% of Britains exports are to the EU. 8% of the EUs are to the UK. The EU has free trade agreements with 50 countries. The UK has none. The EU has 125 trade agreements in total. The UK has zero. If the UK has no transitional deal with the EU it loses all its trade quotas, MRAs, free trade with 50 countries, the benefits of 125 trade agreements and all its imports and exports will be subject to higher tariffs for almost every country it trades with including all of the top 40 countries it currently trades with. The EU will lose some of the 1.4 % of its economy it exports to the UK, but since every country the UK importa from will face the same tariffs the EU will its debateable how much they'll lose." Wrong. IF you treat the EU as a single economy, it's still second to US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union And what do you mean by " Exports to the UK are 1.4% of our economy." This is interesting though when you say " Exports to the EU are 8.25% of the UK economy" That's even less than I thought. Good find | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving?
Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave.
I think you mean YOU have never seen it like that, many do still see the value in peace projects. It's quite sad that you feel that peace no longer has value. "What's happening across Europe? Terror? Rocketing crime? No go zones? Racial tensions and violence? That your peace project is it? | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. There are 80 countries that have the EU as their largest trading partner. Eighty. Its GDP is 19.9 Trillion, only 240 billion is exported to the UK. Exports to the UK are 1.4% of our economy. The UKs gdp is 2.8 trillion and its exports to the EU are 230 billion. Exports to the EU are 8.25% of the UK economy. 46% of Britains exports are to the EU. 8% of the EUs are to the UK. The EU has free trade agreements with 50 countries. The UK has none. The EU has 125 trade agreements in total. The UK has zero. If the UK has no transitional deal with the EU it loses all its trade quotas, MRAs, free trade with 50 countries, the benefits of 125 trade agreements and all its imports and exports will be subject to higher tariffs for almost every country it trades with including all of the top 40 countries it currently trades with. The EU will lose some of the 1.4 % of its economy it exports to the UK, but since every country the UK importa from will face the same tariffs the EU will its debateable how much they'll lose. Wrong. IF you treat the EU as a single economy, it's still second to US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_European_Union And what do you mean by " Exports to the UK are 1.4% of our economy." This is interesting though when you say " Exports to the EU are 8.25% of the UK economy" That's even less than I thought. Good find "US gdp 18 trillion. EU gdp 20 trillion. The EU is over 11% bigger. The UK is dependent on the EU not just for the trading with the 27 other countries but also its worldwide trade through FTAs, trade agreements, MRAs, quotas and reduced tariffs. No transitional deal means reduced trade with everyone. Jobs lost, companies closed and leaving, tax take down, government spending and borrowing up. | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving?
Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave.
I think you mean YOU have never seen it like that, many do still see the value in peace projects. It's quite sad that you feel that peace no longer has value.
What's happening across Europe? Terror? Rocketing crime? No go zones? Racial tensions and violence? That your peace project is it?
"Rocketing crime? Nope, crime is falling, plus if you can name me one country that doesn't have crime that would really help your case, even the Vatican has a legal system and criminality. Terror? Global phenomenon. Middle east is riddled with it, happens in most countries in Africa, India and Pakistan has plenty, as does Thailand, Australia, Canada, the US, Mexico etc etc. No go zones? Maybe you need to grow a pair? Racial tension and violence, again a human condition found all over the world, but as with crime, massively falling from historic levels. The ECSC was created with the intention of binding the economies of europe so closely together as to make war unthinkable. This has worked. There has been no state-on-state violence between members of the founding ECSC or subsequent organisations. So yes, one of the most successful peace projects the world had ever known. One that I would wish to see replicated in other parts of the world. | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving?
Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave.
I think you mean YOU have never seen it like that, many do still see the value in peace projects. It's quite sad that you feel that peace no longer has value. "As I've said many times before on various threads it's Nato which keeps the peace, not the EU. We are part of Nato and I'm very happy to stay part of Nato. As for the EU, no ta. | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving?
Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave.
I think you mean YOU have never seen it like that, many do still see the value in peace projects. It's quite sad that you feel that peace no longer has value.
What's happening across Europe? Terror? Rocketing crime? No go zones? Racial tensions and violence? That your peace project is it?
Rocketing crime? Nope, crime is falling, plus if you can name me one country that doesn't have crime that would really help your case, even the Vatican has a legal system and criminality.
Terror? Global phenomenon. Middle east is riddled with it, happens in most countries in Africa, India and Pakistan has plenty, as does Thailand, Australia, Canada, the US, Mexico etc etc.
No go zones? Maybe you need to grow a pair?
Racial tension and violence, again a human condition found all over the world, but as with crime, massively falling from historic levels.
The ECSC was created with the intention of binding the economies of europe so closely together as to make war unthinkable. This has worked. There has been no state-on-state violence between members of the founding ECSC or subsequent organisations. So yes, one of the most successful peace projects the world had ever known. One that I would wish to see replicated in other parts of the world."Not really, it was the formation of Nato after ww2 which has kept the peace. | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you "https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead. | |||
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"The EU is the largest economy in the world. About to get smaller when the Uk 6th largest economy in the world with its 65 million population leaves.
Figures from House of Commons Library as quoted by Conservative MP Bill Cash in May 2016 in The House of Commons during an EU debate, "House of Commons Library figures shows Britain's relationship with the other 27 countries in the EU we have a trade deficit of £67.8 billion pounds. By comparison Germany has a trade surplus with the other 27 of £81.8 billion annually. So the UK has a huge trade deficit with the EU but we have a good trade surplus with the rest of the world outside currently £31.1 billion and growing each year." The EU is working for Germany, it is really not working for Britain.
Also some figures from Conservative MEP Daniel Hanan quoted in 2014, "When we joined the EU, Western Europe accounted for 36% of the world economy, today that figure has shrunk to 24% of the world economy and is projected to shrink to just 14% of the world economy by the year 2030."
It's clear where the direction of travel is and our future lies out in the global markets where the high growth areas are and not in a stagnant and shrinking EU economy.
If it's so clear, then why is no one else leaving?
Well as I just pointed out Germany is onto a good thing there, they have a massive trade surplus so why would they want it to change? Also many countries in the EU are committed to the EU ideologically in many ways which Britain simply is not. Many of those countries on mainland Europe were conquered and occupied during ww2 and Britain was not. As a consequence they see it as a political peace project, Britain has never seen it like that to us its nothing more than a trade deal. We thought we were joining a common market in the 1970's for trade and nothing more. Unfortunately it has morphed into much more than that to the monstrosity it is today, the people of the UK were conned and lied to in the 70's about what they were getting into and we're lied to for the last 40 years of membership. Those old enough to vote first time round in the 1970's realised they were conned and they had the opportunity to put it right by voting leave in 2016, which they did because a majority of the older generation voted Leave.
I think you mean YOU have never seen it like that, many do still see the value in peace projects. It's quite sad that you feel that peace no longer has value.
What's happening across Europe? Terror? Rocketing crime? No go zones? Racial tensions and violence? That your peace project is it?
Rocketing crime? Nope, crime is falling, plus if you can name me one country that doesn't have crime that would really help your case, even the Vatican has a legal system and criminality.
Terror? Global phenomenon. Middle east is riddled with it, happens in most countries in Africa, India and Pakistan has plenty, as does Thailand, Australia, Canada, the US, Mexico etc etc.
No go zones? Maybe you need to grow a pair?
Racial tension and violence, again a human condition found all over the world, but as with crime, massively falling from historic levels.
The ECSC was created with the intention of binding the economies of europe so closely together as to make war unthinkable. This has worked. There has been no state-on-state violence between members of the founding ECSC or subsequent organisations. So yes, one of the most successful peace projects the world had ever known. One that I would wish to see replicated in other parts of the world.
Not really, it was the formation of Nato after ww2 which has kept the peace. "In what way? How has NATO kept the peace? Which NATO treaty deals with member-on-member aggression? | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead."That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU. | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU. "Come on explicit, we're not using facts here, or data in the public domain, we are talking about the numbers in Centaur's head. Try to keep up! | |||
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"That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU. " Your right, the UK leaving the EU will significantly reduce the size of its economy making it more vulnerable to US economic bullying. However the when the EU leaves the UK (it is a two way street you know) our economic leverage by dint of offering unfettered access to the rest of the EU will be reduced by orders of magnitude far greater than anything the EU will suffer. You and others may personally do very well out of it but the countries economy is in danger of falling off a cliff as the corporate vultures of the USA and China move in to feed on our economic base. | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU. "You're not very good with numbers are you. The population of the EU is about 550 million. The population of the US is about 330 million. The population of the UK is about 65 million. It's simple really! 550 - 65 is greater than 330 | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead."Thats barely anything in it but 18 trillion economy and 319 million ppl is a better place to be than EU with same revenue and nearly twice the mouths to feed! | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU.
You're not very good with numbers are you.
The population of the EU is about 550 million.
The population of the US is about 330 million.
The population of the UK is about 65 million.
It's simple really!
550 - 65 is greater than 330"Higher EU population but most have no money! | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU.
You're not very good with numbers are you.
The population of the EU is about 550 million.
The population of the US is about 330 million.
The population of the UK is about 65 million.
It's simple really!
550 - 65 is greater than 330
Higher EU population but most have no money!
"You really need to go and do a bit of fact checking before you type. Average salary in US: $43,626 Average salary in EU: $38.717 330 * 43,626 = 14,396,580 (550 - 65) * 38,717 = 18,777,745 It's still simple 18,777,745 is greater than 14,396,580 Only in the crazy world of BREXIT economics is the US's smaller, poorer and further away market a better idea than trading with the larger, richer and closer EU market. | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU.
You're not very good with numbers are you.
The population of the EU is about 550 million.
The population of the US is about 330 million.
The population of the UK is about 65 million.
It's simple really!
550 - 65 is greater than 330
Higher EU population but most have no money!
"Plus it's suddenly jumped up 50 million compared to the figure he was parroting on here last year during the EU referendum. Last year he kept saying the EU had a population of 500 million people. Of course though when the UK leaves the UK population of 65 million will be deducted from that leaving an EU population of 435 million people. | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU.
You're not very good with numbers are you.
The population of the EU is about 550 million.
The population of the US is about 330 million.
The population of the UK is about 65 million.
It's simple really!
550 - 65 is greater than 330
Higher EU population but most have no money!
You really need to go and do a bit of fact checking before you type.
Average salary in US: $43,626
Average salary in EU: $38.717
330 * 43,626 = 14,396,580
(550 - 65) * 38,717 = 18,777,745
It's still simple
18,777,745 is greater than 14,396,580
Only in the crazy world of BREXIT economics is the US's smaller, poorer and further away market a better idea than trading with the larger, richer and closer EU market.
"https://www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.weforum.org/agenda/2015/10/is-europe-outperforming-the-us | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump" Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt" No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair "They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits. Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly. -Matt | |||
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"Nope, I provided a link to the real numbers. You lot are funny. You one step above la la la I can't hear you
https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/philippines/21754/eu-philippines-fta-can-be-powerful-catalyst-change_en
Just 2 months old. The EUs economy is bigger than the Americans. GDP ppp is the standard barometer for the size of the economy and the EU is ahead.
That will change after Brexit and the EU economy will be significantly smaller once the UK leaves. America will be the biggest economy after the UK has left the EU.
You're not very good with numbers are you.
The population of the EU is about 550 million.
The population of the US is about 330 million.
The population of the UK is about 65 million.
It's simple really!
550 - 65 is greater than 330
Higher EU population but most have no money!
Plus it's suddenly jumped up 50 million compared to the figure he was parroting on here last year during the EU referendum. Last year he kept saying the EU had a population of 500 million people. Of course though when the UK leaves the UK population of 65 million will be deducted from that leaving an EU population of 435 million people. "Seriously! You really aren't vary good with numbers are you? 435 is still greater then 330 and 435 * 38,717 = 16,841,895, which is still greater then 14,396,580 To clarify my original number of 550 The actual population of the EU is about 510 million. the population of EFTA is 13 million. that gives 523 million. the population of countries in the Customs Union but not on EFTA or the EU is about 85 million and these were added with a weight of 1/3 giving 27 Million. However I can see how the 550 million figure could be considered miss leading especial as I said population of EU not population of single market or EU trading area. The best figure to probably use if 523 million which is the population if the single market. You can do the maths yourself but it still works out the EU is bigger than the US with or without the UK in it. | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair "Whether being a part of the US would be better for Britain then being part of the EU is totally irrelevant. There is absolutely no chance of the UK becoming the 51st or 52nd state of the Union, not least because the US itself does not want it. | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair
They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits.
Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly.
-Matt"The uk and it's citizens do not pay US federal taxes - US citizens do. Are you suggesting that the US taxing UK imports is the same as EU membership and contribution??! Really? | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair
They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits.
Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly.
-Matt
The uk and it's citizens do not pay US federal taxes - US citizens do.
Are you suggesting that the US taxing UK imports is the same as EU membership and contribution??! Really?
"No. You said the difference between the EU and the US is that the EU charges membership fees. I'm saying that the US in effect does charge membership fees to its 'members' too. The EU only charges membership fees to its members (or those that want to use its services and benefits, like Norway). If the UK doesn't want to pay membership fees. It's simple. It can just leave. I'm sure I saw a red bus saying we'd get a big chunk of money to spend on the NHS if we did that. -Matt | |||
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"Or could be China! https://www.thebalance.com/world-s-largest-economy-3306044" So, in crazy BREXIT economics, we're somehow going to be better of trading with:- The US, a smaller market which is 3,000+ miles away, with slightly higher salaries than the EU, with which we have no comprehensive trade deals with. China, a bigger market which is 10,000+ miles away, with salaries ($15,000) less than half the EU's, with which we have no comprehensive trade deals with. As opposed to the EU which is our largest, closest( 0+ miles) and richest market which we also currently have a fully comprehensive trade deal with. Tell me exactly how that's meant to work please. | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair
They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits.
Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly.
-Matt
The uk and it's citizens do not pay US federal taxes - US citizens do.
Are you suggesting that the US taxing UK imports is the same as EU membership and contribution??! Really?
No. You said the difference between the EU and the US is that the EU charges membership fees. I'm saying that the US in effect does charge membership fees to its 'members' too. The EU only charges membership fees to its members (or those that want to use its services and benefits, like Norway). If the UK doesn't want to pay membership fees. It's simple. It can just leave. I'm sure I saw a red bus saying we'd get a big chunk of money to spend on the NHS if we did that.
-Matt"Very selective in your quoting aren't you? I also said the EU expect to impose laws on us and open open our borders. Yes there's cost to trade, that's unavoidable but negotiable. Having our laws made by unelected official abroad and having no say in who floods into our country are not negotiable - that bullshit is over. | |||
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"That's why I said we can impose taxes too.. i.e. On US goods that mitigate their taxes on ours. This is trade deal stuff. We can go ahead and negotiate these things now, unhindered by the EU and the conflicting interests of its members." There is absolutely no chance of getting a comprehensive free deal with anyone unless the UK is willing to accept independent, legally binding arbitration on trade disputes. That means accepting a court of arbitration (like the ECJ or ICS - International Court System) that has jurisdiction and supremacy over British courts. By ruling out any court outside of the UK having any supremacy or jurisdiction in the UK BREXITers are effectively also ruling out any comprehensive free deal with US, China or anyone at all. | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair
They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits.
Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly.
-Matt
The uk and it's citizens do not pay US federal taxes - US citizens do.
Are you suggesting that the US taxing UK imports is the same as EU membership and contribution??! Really?
No. You said the difference between the EU and the US is that the EU charges membership fees. I'm saying that the US in effect does charge membership fees to its 'members' too. The EU only charges membership fees to its members (or those that want to use its services and benefits, like Norway). If the UK doesn't want to pay membership fees. It's simple. It can just leave. I'm sure I saw a red bus saying we'd get a big chunk of money to spend on the NHS if we did that.
-Matt
Very selective in your quoting aren't you? I also said the EU expect to impose laws on us and open open our borders.
Yes there's cost to trade, that's unavoidable but negotiable. Having our laws made by unelected official abroad and having no say in who floods into our country are not negotiable - that bullshit is over."Laws are not made in the EU by unelected officials. Laws can be proposed by either the European Commission, The European Council (of ministers) or the European Parliament. Laws can only be actually made law by agreement of the European Council (of ministers), which represents the democratically elected governments of the sovereign member states, and the European Parliament, which is directly elected by the people. | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair
They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits.
Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly.
-Matt
The uk and it's citizens do not pay US federal taxes - US citizens do.
Are you suggesting that the US taxing UK imports is the same as EU membership and contribution??! Really?
No. You said the difference between the EU and the US is that the EU charges membership fees. I'm saying that the US in effect does charge membership fees to its 'members' too. The EU only charges membership fees to its members (or those that want to use its services and benefits, like Norway). If the UK doesn't want to pay membership fees. It's simple. It can just leave. I'm sure I saw a red bus saying we'd get a big chunk of money to spend on the NHS if we did that.
-Matt
Very selective in your quoting aren't you? I also said the EU expect to impose laws on us and open open our borders.
Yes there's cost to trade, that's unavoidable but negotiable. Having our laws made by unelected official abroad and having no say in who floods into our country are not negotiable - that bullshit is over.
Laws are not made in the EU by unelected officials. Laws can be proposed by either the European Commission, The European Council (of ministers) or the European Parliament. Laws can only be actually made law by agreement of the European Council (of ministers), which represents the democratically elected governments of the sovereign member states, and the European Parliament, which is directly elected by the people. "That's all we'll suspect at best, but still undesirable if true. Britain makes British law. International law and trade agreements are very different to EU laws affecting everyday life in the UK | |||
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"Higher EU population but most have no money! " Unlike the egalitarianism of the UK or USA where there is no poverty or homelessness... | |||
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"Other thing to remember when evaluating the EU and US markets is that the US do not charge membership contributions, expect to make our laws and remove our borders. On balance, the EU is a disaster for our country by comparison to the US, even WITH Israel running it through "1000% behind Israel" Trump Are US federal taxes not a form of membership contribution? -Matt No. The clue is in the fact that they US federal taxes and not membership fees. We can impose taxes too you know... in case you thought it wasn't fair
They are a financial contribution from the members (or members citizens in this case) to the federal body that those members are a part of in return for services and benefits.
Surely that is pretty much what our membership fee of the EU is? Just paid by the govt, not the citizens directly.
-Matt
The uk and it's citizens do not pay US federal taxes - US citizens do.
Are you suggesting that the US taxing UK imports is the same as EU membership and contribution??! Really?
No. You said the difference between the EU and the US is that the EU charges membership fees. I'm saying that the US in effect does charge membership fees to its 'members' too. The EU only charges membership fees to its members (or those that want to use its services and benefits, like Norway). If the UK doesn't want to pay membership fees. It's simple. It can just leave. I'm sure I saw a red bus saying we'd get a big chunk of money to spend on the NHS if we did that.
-Matt
Very selective in your quoting aren't you? I also said the EU expect to impose laws on us and open open our borders.
Yes there's cost to trade, that's unavoidable but negotiable. Having our laws made by unelected official abroad and having no say in who floods into our country are not negotiable - that bullshit is over.
Laws are not made in the EU by unelected officials. Laws can be proposed by either the European Commission, The European Council (of ministers) or the European Parliament. Laws can only be actually made law by agreement of the European Council (of ministers), which represents the democratically elected governments of the sovereign member states, and the European Parliament, which is directly elected by the people.
That's all we'll suspect at best, but still undesirable if true. Britain makes British law. International law and trade agreements are very different to EU laws affecting everyday life in the UK"What do you mean "if true"? It IS true. Whether you like it or not, it doesn't mean it might not be true. Out of interest, which 'EU laws, affecting everyday life' do you have an issue with? Is there one in particular that causes you problems? -Matt | |||
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