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American Destroyers....!
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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Two of them, basically rammed by the bullnose of large commercial vessels in two months.
Could there be a link? Terrorist? N Korea link?
What are people's thoughts? |
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That they need to possibly look at what has happened in a 12 month period which has seen unnecessary loss of life, groundings and several collisions looks like its some sort of lax leadership or bad sea'person'ship.. |
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"I believe that a number of crew on the first ship are on charges and relieved of duty."
Its all a bit late for the Fleet Commander to be kicking arses now when they've had i think 3 collisions with loss of lives and 1 grounding before the latest one..
how ships with such technology can have a collision is bizarre.. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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Its fucking nuts, I'm not military expert on hardware like but if you can't see a giant fucking oil tanker coming at you how the hell do you spot a plane or a torpedo  |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
Rules of the road at sea are quite straightforward. "If to your starboard (right), red appears (port/left navigation light) of another ship appears, it is your duty to keep clear." The most recent accident shows the deep indentation of a bulbous bow into the left (port side) of the warship. That would indicate that the tanker failed to take evasive action.
The rules are quite stark so that the ship who has right of way does not feel tempted to adjust course and then inadvertently find themselves in a worse position because the other vessel made a reciprocating change of course and the end result is confusion. The vessel needing to give way should make an early, decisive and obvious change of course.
I very much doubt whether the warship would have sailed on into an ever dangerous risk of collision and it possibly did try itself to make evasive action at the very last minute but made the wrong choice in change of direction.
Worth noting that the Malacca straits were(back in my time) busier than the English Channel and it is possible that a poorly trained Bridge could take evasive action from one situation only to put themselves in danger from another. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Its fucking nuts, I'm not military expert on hardware like but if you can't see a giant fucking oil tanker coming at you how the hell do you spot a plane or a torpedo "
The bare evidence would indicate that the tanker should have given way. Though I guess there will be more to it. |
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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago
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"Its fucking nuts, I'm not military expert on hardware like but if you can't see a giant fucking oil tanker coming at you how the hell do you spot a plane or a torpedo
The bare evidence would indicate that the tanker should have given way. Though I guess there will be more to it."
The point I was making is that it appears to be a deliberate ramming....in both recent cases the impact was on the port side of the warships. Deliberate? |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Its fucking nuts, I'm not military expert on hardware like but if you can't see a giant fucking oil tanker coming at you how the hell do you spot a plane or a torpedo
The bare evidence would indicate that the tanker should have given way. Though I guess there will be more to it.
The point I was making is that it appears to be a deliberate ramming....in both recent cases the impact was on the port side of the warships. Deliberate?"
The Malacca Straits are really busy with commercial shipping and (believe it or not) hundreds of tiny fishing boats. The radar screen looks like an invasion of bees!
We didn't have anti collision gadgets in my era but my understanding of how they work today is that they are only reliable as long as as everyone does what they are supposed to do. If some comedian does not maintain a steady course and speed then the anti collision system won't work properly.
For example, that tanker can only really continue on the course that it is on. Stopping is not an option and dramatic course changes are not possible. The tanker crew therefore plots is course far, far ahead and will do anything to avoid anything dramatic - because it can't do that. Let's say then that the tanker is within the shipping lane and plodding along after just been overtaken on its starboard side by an American warship. Tanker dismisses warship as a non collision threat having been overtaken and warship dismisses tanker as it has just overtaken it. American crew then get fistracted and concerned about massed fishing boats ahead and make a sharp turn to port to stay clear. Warship is then at risk of collision from the tanker that is bearing down on its port side and the tanker is restricted in its ability to manoeuvre due to proximity of fishing boats and the constraints of the shipping lane.
The holes in the cheese slowly but surely all line up. Any one single course of action would prevent all the holes lining up, but this is really how shit like this happens. I really can imagine an American warship acting erratically in congested waters because they are afraid of a suicide ramming by a boat.
That's all it takes, taking on the perceived threat and forgetting about the real one. |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It highlights the dangers of military service, even when not on combat operations.
It highlights how all Americans are as thick as shit  "
I'm sure the families of the deceased will be glad to hear that. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It highlights the dangers of military service, even when not on combat operations.
It highlights how all Americans are as thick as shit
I'm sure the families of the deceased will be glad to hear that. "
I doubt they will. What is wrong with you  |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It highlights the dangers of military service, even when not on combat operations.
It highlights how all Americans are as thick as shit
I'm sure the families of the deceased will be glad to hear that.
I doubt they will. What is wrong with you "
Nothing wrong with me, I'm not calling people who just lost their lives in the Service of their country "thick as shit". That was all you. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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A quick google tells me.
It takes about 20 minutes for a fully loaded supertanker to stop when traveling at normal speed. In emergency situations, some can perform a "crash stop" maneuver, which can cut the time down to 14 minutes. The reason supertankers, also known as oil tankers, take so long to stop is the huge amount of momentum they build up as they sail. Because of this huge momentum, most supertankers turn off their engines about 15 miles (25 km) away from their dock. |
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"Rules of the road at sea are quite straightforward. "If to your starboard (right), red appears (port/left navigation light) of another ship appears, it is your duty to keep clear." The most recent accident shows the deep indentation of a bulbous bow into the left (port side) of the warship. That would indicate that the tanker failed to take evasive action.
The rules are quite stark so that the ship who has right of way does not feel tempted to adjust course and then inadvertently find themselves in a worse position because the other vessel made a reciprocating change of course and the end result is confusion. The vessel needing to give way should make an early, decisive and obvious change of course.
I very much doubt whether the warship would have sailed on into an ever dangerous risk of collision and it possibly did try itself to make evasive action at the very last minute but made the wrong choice in change of direction.
Worth noting that the Malacca straits were(back in my time) busier than the English Channel and it is possible that a poorly trained Bridge could take evasive action from one situation only to put themselves in danger from another."
It is not quite that simple...
Warships are fast and maneuverable. bulk tankers and container ships are not (some take over a mile to start a turn from applying rudder and up to 20 miles to stop or do a full circles when traveling at cruising speed). Add to this the increasing arrogance of US warships captains and fleet commanders and this is what happens. Just listen to this if you dont believe me...
https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVU |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"It highlights the dangers of military service, even when not on combat operations.
It highlights how all Americans are as thick as shit
I'm sure the families of the deceased will be glad to hear that.
I doubt they will. What is wrong with you
Nothing wrong with me, I'm not calling people who just lost their lives in the Service of their country "thick as shit". That was all you. "
Why are you not asking why this is in the politics forum |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"It highlights the dangers of military service, even when not on combat operations.
It highlights how all Americans are as thick as shit
I'm sure the families of the deceased will be glad to hear that.
I doubt they will. What is wrong with you
Nothing wrong with me, I'm not calling people who just lost their lives in the Service of their country "thick as shit". That was all you.
Why are you not asking why this is in the politics forum "
The OP was asking about terrorism and North Korea. If you don't think terrorism and international relations fall into the politics forum then you don't have to post. |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
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"At times like this I think this clip is comedy gold.
.
https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVU
you beat me to it! :P
"
.
Looks like the admiral of the fleet is biting the bullet today with a removal from post.
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"
It is not quite that simple...
Warships are fast and maneuverable. bulk tankers and container ships are not (some take over a mile to start a turn from applying rudder and up to 20 miles to stop or do a full circles when traveling at cruising speed). Add to this the increasing arrogance of US warships captains and fleet commanders and this is what happens. Just listen to this if you dont believe me...
https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVU"
Do you like to argue just for the sake of it?
An extract from my last post...
"For example, that tanker can only really continue on the course that it is on. Stopping is not an option and dramatic course changes are not possible. The tanker crew, therefore, plots is course far, far ahead... "
PS - Tankers and Container ships don't "cruise" |
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By *LCCCouple
over a year ago
Cambridge |
"At times like this I think this clip is comedy gold.
.
https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVU
you beat me to it! :P
.
Looks like the admiral of the fleet is biting the bullet today with a removal from post.
"
Still, that's nothing compared to the ongoing Fat Leonard scandal. |
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"Do you like to argue just for the sake of it?
An extract from my last post...
"For example, that tanker can only really continue on the course that it is on. Stopping is not an option and dramatic course changes are not possible. The tanker crew, therefore, plots is course far, far ahead... "
PS - Tankers and Container ships don't "cruise""
Sorry When I replied I had not read down as far as the post where you contradicted your first post (which I quoted in my reply). Actually all ships 'cruise' or more accurately have a 'engine cruising speed' which is the most energy efficient speed reducing vibrations to a minimum thus reducing engine breakdowns and retarding structural metal fatigue (the main reason that metal ships have a relatively short lifespan. With a large steam turbine engine it is around 1800 rpm and with a large diesel engine it is normally around 2200 rpm. |
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By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago
North West |
"Do you like to argue just for the sake of it?
An extract from my last post...
"For example, that tanker can only really continue on the course that it is on. Stopping is not an option and dramatic course changes are not possible. The tanker crew, therefore, plots is course far, far ahead... "
PS - Tankers and Container ships don't "cruise"
Sorry When I replied I had not read down as far as the post where you contradicted your first post (which I quoted in my reply). Actually all ships 'cruise' or more accurately have a 'engine cruising speed' which is the most energy efficient speed reducing vibrations to a minimum thus reducing engine breakdowns and retarding structural metal fatigue (the main reason that metal ships have a relatively short lifespan. With a large steam turbine engine it is around 1800 rpm and with a large diesel engine it is normally around 2200 rpm."
I defer my 15 years at sea to your better knowledge.  |
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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"At times like this I think this clip is comedy gold.
.
https://youtu.be/_VHXRYXzEVU
you beat me to it! :P
.
Looks like the admiral of the fleet is biting the bullet today with a removal from post.
Still, that's nothing compared to the ongoing Fat Leonard scandal."
.
Oh just wait till it all goes wrong with this new insurgence in Afghanistan |
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