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Catalan Independence
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"The EU position will be the same as it was for Scotland. If you leave a member state you leave the EU." nothing stopping them joining the eu after they split | |||
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"The EU position will be the same as it was for Scotland. If you leave a member state you leave the EU.nothing stopping them joining the eu after they split " They would have to join a queue and wait several years. | |||
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"nothing stopping them joining the eu after they split " I think you may find Spain France and Germany may disagree with you there. | |||
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"I think the region will do fine much like independent city states.Barcelona could be the European Singapore. "Well they have a good well developed biotech and cyber tech sector, could get a fair bit of tax from that. It'd hit spain hard though | |||
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"I think the region will do fine much like independent city states.Barcelona could be the European Singapore.
Well they have a good well developed biotech and cyber tech sector, could get a fair bit of tax from that.
It'd hit spain hard though"It would benefit spain long term.Like Hong kong and Singapore benefit the region.Devolving power to dynamic city states is something we be seeing soon.Venice voted for independence in 2014 and 89% voted out.Not recognised by the govermen though as venice is a cash cow for Italy. | |||
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"I think the region will do fine much like independent city states.Barcelona could be the European Singapore.
Well they have a good well developed biotech and cyber tech sector, could get a fair bit of tax from that.
It'd hit spain hard though
It would benefit spain long term.Like Hong kong and Singapore benefit the region.Devolving power to dynamic city states is something we be seeing soon.Venice voted for independence in 2014 and 89% voted out.Not recognised by the govermen though as venice is a cash cow for Italy. "What about the rest of the countries though? Where would England be without London? You can't just cherry pick the most financially viable parts of the country and leave the rest to wither and die. | |||
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"I think the region will do fine much like independent city states.Barcelona could be the European Singapore.
Well they have a good well developed biotech and cyber tech sector, could get a fair bit of tax from that.
It'd hit spain hard though
It would benefit spain long term.Like Hong kong and Singapore benefit the region.Devolving power to dynamic city states is something we be seeing soon.Venice voted for independence in 2014 and 89% voted out.Not recognised by the govermen though as venice is a cash cow for Italy.
What about the rest of the countries though? Where would England be without London? You can't just cherry pick the most financially viable parts of the country and leave the rest to wither and die."London should stay in the EU and break away as a city state. It voted to stay.It doesn't need the rest of the UK .It should be a special economic zone like hong kong is to china.It would thrive . State goverments hold back these cities.The concept of city states will become ever more popular as it was in times past .Devolution of power from state to city is the way the wind blows today.Look at the usa.Cities are doing their own thing.They should decide on what immigration they require what tax rates they set and also how they address climate change.. | |||
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"I think the region will do fine much like independent city states.Barcelona could be the European Singapore.
Well they have a good well developed biotech and cyber tech sector, could get a fair bit of tax from that.
It'd hit spain hard though
It would benefit spain long term.Like Hong kong and Singapore benefit the region.Devolving power to dynamic city states is something we be seeing soon.Venice voted for independence in 2014 and 89% voted out.Not recognised by the govermen though as venice is a cash cow for Italy.
What about the rest of the countries though? Where would England be without London? You can't just cherry pick the most financially viable parts of the country and leave the rest to wither and die. London should stay in the EU and break away as a city state. It voted to stay.It doesn't need the rest of the UK .It should be a special economic zone like hong kong is to china.It would thrive .
State goverments hold back these cities.The concept of city states will become ever more popular as it was in times past .Devolution of power from state to city is the way the wind blows today.Look at the usa.Cities are doing their own thing.They should decide on what immigration they require what tax rates they set and also how they address climate change.."But what about the rest of the country? How would Norfolk or cornwall etc fare without London? What would happen to parliament? How would stuff be funded in a rural area, without the income from a metropolitan area? | |||
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"Dubai ,monaco, Macau, Singapore and hong kong .Manage very well with organising services for its citzens.Cities around the world are demanding greater autonomy. They not the state are organising the infrastructure required for their future.Companies are foing deals with cities not goverments .Just look at the power silcon valley and California has.They are ignoring the trump administration and doing it their way .I can imagine a future where New york london become city states." But Bob, what about the rest of the country? | |||
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"Dubai ,monaco, Macau, Singapore and hong kong .Manage very well with organising services for its citzens.Cities around the world are demanding greater autonomy. They not the state are organising the infrastructure required for their future.Companies are foing deals with cities not goverments .Just look at the power silcon valley and California has.They are ignoring the trump administration and doing it their way .I can imagine a future where New york london become city states. But Bob, what about the rest of the country?" Theyll be ok.They can trade with the city states.London has a population right now that is bigger than Scotland and Wales put together and generates 22 per cent of the UK’s GDP while being home to only 12.5 per cent of the UK’s population; its economy is the size of Sweden’s.If Scotland can go it alone so can London and with greater ease.Interestingly London only gets to keep 7% of the tax revenues.Cities like Barcelona and venice have similar issues with their goverment. | |||
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"Dubai ,monaco, Macau, Singapore and hong kong .Manage very well with organising services for its citzens.Cities around the world are demanding greater autonomy. They not the state are organising the infrastructure required for their future.Companies are foing deals with cities not goverments .Just look at the power silcon valley and California has.They are ignoring the trump administration and doing it their way .I can imagine a future where New york london become city states." Then at a later date Snake Pliskin has to go into New York to rescue the President.  | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did" More to the point, what would they eat? | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat?" They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously."No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society. "Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
"Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food.... | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food...."Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
"Pure neomania Do you not recognise the harm that most corporations cause in terms of pollution and a degradation of qualify of life for the average drone? 35 years of bliss in a cubicle doing supply chain management of some shite like that. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
"Surely that's not a good future tho Bob ?  | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
Surely that's not a good future tho Bob ? "Its the one you live in now Mr suit.Corporations can bring down countries or build them up.The drugs that save your life are created by big pharma corporations.The technology in your pocket corporations. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
"Ah, but when the peasants revolt, my friend, we could hold them to randsom..... | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
"a round of applause to the bloke who has found where the capitalists are prepared to draw the boundaries of capitalism ... sir, i salute you | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
a round of applause to the bloke who has found where the capitalists are prepared to draw the boundaries of capitalism ... sir, i salute you "And in so doing, it is vulnerable. Time to plan the revolution, commrades. | |||
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"The EU position will be the same as it was for Scotland. If you leave a member state you leave the EU.nothing stopping them joining the eu after they split " Meeting the criteria as a small, independent state...with no central bank....possibly a high debt to GDP ratio (as Scotland would have) could be just as big, or bigger hurdle than an independent a Scotland would have. And it is a process that takes many years! | |||
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"the important thing is that they get to fuck things up their way instead of having things fucked up on their behalf by the remnants of a fascist dictatorship" Amen to that! | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. " Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to." Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. " Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood." Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol " All the powers that Holyrood have flow from Westminster, and they can be taken back again. Sorry. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol All the powers that Holyrood have flow from Westminster, and they can be taken back again. Sorry." Love that you didnt try and correct me on the issue about Holyrood is doing things way better than Westminster lol Yeah what does that say ? I know the game its to try and get direct rule in Scotland not ever going to happen. I saw the new poll btw 19% want Holyrood abolished so by logic more than 4 out of 5 Scots do not want Holyrood abolished Lol | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol All the powers that Holyrood have flow from Westminster, and they can be taken back again. Sorry. Love that you didnt try and correct me on the issue about Holyrood is doing things way better than Westminster lol Yeah what does that say ? I know the game its to try and get direct rule in Scotland not ever going to happen. I saw the new poll btw 19% want Holyrood abolished so by logic more than 4 out of 5 Scots do not want Holyrood abolished Lol " But you agree with me that Westminster created the Scottish Parliament, and Westminster can get rid of it. Nice that there is something we can agree on. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol All the powers that Holyrood have flow from Westminster, and they can be taken back again. Sorry. Love that you didnt try and correct me on the issue about Holyrood is doing things way better than Westminster lol Yeah what does that say ? I know the game its to try and get direct rule in Scotland not ever going to happen. I saw the new poll btw 19% want Holyrood abolished so by logic more than 4 out of 5 Scots do not want Holyrood abolished Lol But you agree with me that Westminster created the Scottish Parliament, and Westminster can get rid of it. Nice that there is something we can agree on. " Yes why you ask because the Scotland Act is a piece of shite it means fuck all. Big mistake if they did thought as the majority think Holyrood is going a good job and 89% want Holyrood to stay in place. Now that i have answered yours can you now answer mine Do you agree with me that Holyrood is running things like for example the NHS better than Westminster are ? I cant wait for the 1st Oct and watch Catalonia become independent and get rid of Spain minority dictatship government and then the people of Catalonia hold their own government to account they way it should be. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol All the powers that Holyrood have flow from Westminster, and they can be taken back again. Sorry. Love that you didnt try and correct me on the issue about Holyrood is doing things way better than Westminster lol Yeah what does that say ? I know the game its to try and get direct rule in Scotland not ever going to happen. I saw the new poll btw 19% want Holyrood abolished so by logic more than 4 out of 5 Scots do not want Holyrood abolished Lol But you agree with me that Westminster created the Scottish Parliament, and Westminster can get rid of it. Nice that there is something we can agree on. Yes why you ask because the Scotland Act is a piece of shite it means fuck all. Big mistake if they did thought as the majority think Holyrood is going a good job and 89% want Holyrood to stay in place. Now that i have answered yours can you now answer mine Do you agree with me that Holyrood is running things like for example the NHS better than Westminster are ? I cant wait for the 1st Oct and watch Catalonia become independent and get rid of Spain minority dictatship government and then the people of Catalonia hold their own government to account they way it should be. " I don't really care who you think is running the NHS better. | |||
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"There is NO queue to join the EU You either meet the critera or you dont simply as that Look at what the EU is saying if Scotland were to vote for independence that Scotland could easily be fast tracked into being a member state its got the pro hardcore unionist in a state of panic lol Good luck to Catalonia if their people vote for independence what right has Spain go to tell them they cant that is called dictatorship. Next country into the EU club is expected to be Albania in possibly 2020. They applied to join in 2009. Iceland, Kosovo, Bosnia, Serbia and even Turkey have applied to join. You could argue it's a waiting list and not a queue....if you really wanted to. Right so its not a queue then again you either meet the critera or you dont. Again good luck to Catalonia its thats what the people want then Spain has no right to dictate to keeping them. As for if Catalonia wanted to join the EU yeah there may be problems as the EU may not see them as an independent country and that they only used UDI to get it Thats how Scotland is in a far different position that Calalonia as the people of Scotland elected a party with manifesto to hold an independence referendum and when that takes place and a yes vote comes in that would be a country democratically voting for independence. Parliament (the proper one, Westminster) is sovereign, not Holyrood. Proper one ? So you think Holyrood is some made up bullshit ? Lmao Well Holyrood is proving that our government can do things far better than Westminster if dreamed about. Do you honestly think the Tories are doing a great job in Westminster ? UK government are shite feart to give Scotland another chance at independence incase they lose not only the EU but say goodbye to Scotland and the break up of the UK lol All the powers that Holyrood have flow from Westminster, and they can be taken back again. Sorry. Love that you didnt try and correct me on the issue about Holyrood is doing things way better than Westminster lol Yeah what does that say ? I know the game its to try and get direct rule in Scotland not ever going to happen. I saw the new poll btw 19% want Holyrood abolished so by logic more than 4 out of 5 Scots do not want Holyrood abolished Lol But you agree with me that Westminster created the Scottish Parliament, and Westminster can get rid of it. Nice that there is something we can agree on. Yes why you ask because the Scotland Act is a piece of shite it means fuck all. Big mistake if they did thought as the majority think Holyrood is going a good job and 89% want Holyrood to stay in place. Now that i have answered yours can you now answer mine Do you agree with me that Holyrood is running things like for example the NHS better than Westminster are ? I cant wait for the 1st Oct and watch Catalonia become independent and get rid of Spain minority dictatship government and then the people of Catalonia hold their own government to account they way it should be. I don't really care who you think is running the NHS better. " You dont care ? Or you dont want to admit Scotland's government is doing far better at running the NHS ? Come on i did answer yours i said yes So do you agree with me that Holyrood is doing far better than Westminster ? lol | |||
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"if cataluna vote to walk then spain can do diddly squat about it " That's how civil wars start | |||
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"if cataluna vote to walk then spain can do diddly squat about it " Very true And people here in the UK have no right to say Catalonia cant do it. Remember the EU referendum was a non binding referendum pretty much a question put to the people and the government do not need to act on it. But with thos lot ie the Tories ramming it down our throats wthout a care in the world for what damage it will do to the UK. As i said good luck to Catalonia if their people want to be free from Madrid. | |||
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"It's a crook of bollocks. Where would London get it's water from?... Electricity, sewage. What would it do when Norfolk demanded it cease shoving it's polluted air over it?. How would wealthy Londoners cope without a weekend "getaway" in Hampshire or Cornwall?. London would disappear up it's own arsehole long before the rest of the UK did More to the point, what would they eat? They eat like eveyone else in every city state on earth.
A city state is a political unit inherently more responsive to the needs of its charges, and it offers the opportunity to reach new standards of living and levels of economic productivity .This is reason enough to give city-states the chance to prove they can work as units of governance, and investment into the development and creation of new city-states has the potential to pay off tremendously.
No Bob, it's a fantastic opportunity for the elites to isolate themselves from the poor and hoard their riches. Monaco is hardly a great example of a balanced society.
Imagine how much money you could make if you owned a city-state. It would not surprise me if the next 100 years bear witness to the rise of the world’s first corporate city-state.
Imagine how hungry they'd be if we refused to supply food....
Do you think monaco starves or Dubai.Does Singapore starve. The whole point of a resource based city state is efficiency.Greater standards of living greater innovation. Unhindered by the cogs of state achieving nothing .You might recoil in horror at a corporate city state. Its going to take corporations to get shit done in the future.If you want to colinize mars or mine the asteroid belt.It will be done by the likes of Google and the elon musks of the world. The likes of May and corbyn and Trump cant do a thing to stop it or create an alternative future.
Surely that's not a good future tho Bob ? Its the one you live in now Mr suit.Corporations can bring down countries or build them up.The drugs that save your life are created by big pharma corporations.The technology in your pocket corporations.". This is the biggest misconception about big corporations around. The vast majority of "stuff" is financed and researched by state run capitalism for example the iPhone ..LCD screens, GPS, the internet, micro chips, ROM, voice recognition, all big budget government stuff, mostly military or space. The same goes for pharmaceutical research on drugs, for instance we all know that antibiotics are becoming ineffective yet practically no drug companies want to invest in New ones unless it's financed by the state | |||
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"Just a thought, if Catalonia go Indy, what would be the chances that the Basque's and Bretons may follow with similar independence routes. Also would it aid a Scottish independence and ignite the Cornish Liberation army for Cornish Independence? " YES! Freedom for Cornwall ! | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely" Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco " They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. " Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! " I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated. | |||
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"these franco remnants in spainish civic life would still be younger than you though gran'pa "You love that little throwaway don't you? What you will learn as you become more mature is that a joke is only funny when told for the first time. After that it just becomes tiresome. | |||
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"just highlighting your bullshit .... you profess to be a spring chicken at that age but make out franco era civic workers of a similar age are somehow in decrepitude .... you can't have it both ways grand'pa "So kid. Let's get it right about the bullshit. You are of the opinion that somehow Franco had teens and 20's that served in senior or even middle positions. He may have been an unsavoury character but he wasn't that stupid. Kids these days seem to be though. | |||
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"In a parallel scenario to our Scottish Referendum, the Catalan Goverment have passed a bill to hold their own Independence referendum on October 1st. Should the vote go their way, they have promised to declare a Catalan republic within 48 hours. Good for them I hope they choose independence as well . So glad we're out !!! The Spanish government are livid, not sure what the EU position is yet." | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated. "Yes only a handful are alive today and serving in the PP but the date of Franco's death is irrelevant - Believing Francoism died with Franco is a mistake. After his death many of his supporters carried on in Politics or the Guardia - Second and third generation supporters have - and still are accepted with open arms into both organisations Lets not forget the failed military coup of our own generation in 1981 | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated.
Yes only a handful are alive today and serving in the PP but the date of Franco's death is irrelevant - Believing Francoism died with Franco is a mistake.
After his death many of his supporters carried on in Politics or the Guardia - Second and third generation supporters have - and still are accepted with open arms into both organisations
Lets not forget the failed military coup of our own generation in 1981
"Surely the date of Franco's death is very relevant to if someone "served" under Franco or not! | |||
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"just highlighting your bullshit .... you profess to be a spring chicken at that age but make out franco era civic workers of a similar age are somehow in decrepitude .... you can't have it both ways grand'pa
So kid. Let's get it right about the bullshit.
You are of the opinion that somehow Franco had teens and 20's that served in senior or even middle positions.
He may have been an unsavoury character but he wasn't that stupid.
Kids these days seem to be though."your making bullshit up again grand'pa ... you must be overdue for your little nap | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated.
Yes only a handful are alive today and serving in the PP but the date of Franco's death is irrelevant - Believing Francoism died with Franco is a mistake.
After his death many of his supporters carried on in Politics or the Guardia - Second and third generation supporters have - and still are accepted with open arms into both organisations
Lets not forget the failed military coup of our own generation in 1981
Surely the date of Franco's death is very relevant to if someone "served" under Franco or not! "You would think so but sadly it wasn't the case Franco wasn't overthrown nor was his political thinking - Some may argue - they still serve him to this day Perhaps you are getting him mixed up Mussolini - Easy mistake to make | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated.
Yes only a handful are alive today and serving in the PP but the date of Franco's death is irrelevant - Believing Francoism died with Franco is a mistake.
After his death many of his supporters carried on in Politics or the Guardia - Second and third generation supporters have - and still are accepted with open arms into both organisations
Lets not forget the failed military coup of our own generation in 1981
Surely the date of Franco's death is very relevant to if someone "served" under Franco or not!
You would think so but sadly it wasn't the case
Franco wasn't overthrown nor was his political thinking - Some may argue - they still serve him to this day
Perhaps you are getting him mixed up Mussolini - Easy mistake to make " you can't "serve" under someone who is dead.  | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated.
Yes only a handful are alive today and serving in the PP but the date of Franco's death is irrelevant - Believing Francoism died with Franco is a mistake.
After his death many of his supporters carried on in Politics or the Guardia - Second and third generation supporters have - and still are accepted with open arms into both organisations
Lets not forget the failed military coup of our own generation in 1981
Surely the date of Franco's death is very relevant to if someone "served" under Franco or not!
You would think so but sadly it wasn't the case
Franco wasn't overthrown nor was his political thinking - Some may argue - they still serve him to this day
Perhaps you are getting him mixed up Mussolini - Easy mistake to make
you can't "serve" under someone who is dead. "Leaving aside the small detail that I didn't actually say that You might find there are 4 billion Christians and Muslims who would disagree with your statement | |||
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"Fascism alive and well in the Spanish government Imagine trying to deny people their right to self-determination. Now individuals will be more determined to vote for independence definitely Absolutely correct about Fascism being alive and well - You also have to take into account some members of Mariano Rajoy's PP government are not only Franco supporters but actually served under Franco They would have either been very young then, or very old now, or both. A 19 year old when Franco died would be 60 now. So I doubt that there would be many of them left. It should also be remembered that Zapatero's PSOE (Socialist) government didn't exactly bust a gut to give the Catalans or Basques independence. Yes of course they are old! Many Spanish politicians are in their 60's and 70's - No great surprise there! I don't doubt that there is possibly a handful that "served" under Franco still around in politics. However it is how you define "served" Does served as a young soldier doing national service count? Or someone starting their new job for a government department? What I do doubt is that there is anyone left who served in anything more than a very junior position at that time who is still involved in politics. Saying "served under Franco" implies that his right hand man is still involved. Even he (Juan Carlos) has abdicated.
Yes only a handful are alive today and serving in the PP but the date of Franco's death is irrelevant - Believing Francoism died with Franco is a mistake.
After his death many of his supporters carried on in Politics or the Guardia - Second and third generation supporters have - and still are accepted with open arms into both organisations
Lets not forget the failed military coup of our own generation in 1981
Surely the date of Franco's death is very relevant to if someone "served" under Franco or not!
You would think so but sadly it wasn't the case
Franco wasn't overthrown nor was his political thinking - Some may argue - they still serve him to this day
Perhaps you are getting him mixed up Mussolini - Easy mistake to make
you can't "serve" under someone who is dead.
Leaving aside the small detail that I didn't actually say that
You might find there are 4 billion Christians and Muslims who would disagree with your statement
"I think you have a poor grasp of the size of the population in Spain! | |||
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"If what i am reading is true this is Deeply troubling. Spanish government sending men with guns to destroy ballot papers. This isn't democracy. It is fascism!!! Denying people their right to choose self determination is very wrong and the longer Spain keep this shite up the more peopl all over the world will look at Spain and tell them fuck off" Very interesting point. Can self determination be decided by a majority or a minority of Catalans? | |||
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"If what i am reading is true this is Deeply troubling. Spanish government sending men with guns to destroy ballot papers. This isn't democracy. It is fascism!!! " No, it isn't. The vote in Catalonia is unconstitutional, as are the laws the Catalan Parliament have 'passed' to enable a separation of Catalonia from Spain. | |||
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"Yeah it is illegal to secede from Spain, otherwise a few regions would have it on their toes, so the referendum is kinda illegal. However, the Spanish government are being rather heavy handed. I know which way I'd vote if I was a Catalonian" . The Voice of reason | |||
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"Anyone seen the statement from Barcelona Football Club? The statement says the Football club are all for self-determination, democracy, the will of the majority of Catalan people. Now if am right it cause problems if Catalonia votes for independence which they will and Barcelona football club respect the will of the people in voting for independence then Barcelona could withdraw from La Liga ( Spanish football league ) and that wouldnt be good for Spanish football to lose one of there biggest clubs with the likes of Messi and co leaving the LA Liga The Spanish government have really brought this on themselves by denying the right to self-determination with if am right the UN back 100% " Who would they play if they leave la liga.?They won't leave la liga..Thats unimaginable.Unless plans for a European super league happens.Then its feasible. | |||
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"Anyone seen the statement from Barcelona Football Club? The statement says the Football club are all for self-determination, democracy, the will of the majority of Catalan people. Now if am right it cause problems if Catalonia votes for independence which they will and Barcelona football club respect the will of the people in voting for independence then Barcelona could withdraw from La Liga ( Spanish football league ) and that wouldnt be good for Spanish football to lose one of there biggest clubs with the likes of Messi and co leaving the LA Liga The Spanish government have really brought this on themselves by denying the right to self-determination with if am right the UN back 100% Who would they play if they leave la liga.?They won't leave la liga..Thats unimaginable.Unless plans for a European super league happens.Then its feasible. " Yes it could really happen that Barcelona withdraw from La Liga Think of this as a good example Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league there was talk ages ago even though i never thought it would happen and Rangers and Celtic playing in the English football league. So it could happen i dont know if t will but could very well happen. | |||
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"Anyone seen the statement from Barcelona Football Club? The statement says the Football club are all for self-determination, democracy, the will of the majority of Catalan people. Now if am right it cause problems if Catalonia votes for independence which they will and Barcelona football club respect the will of the people in voting for independence then Barcelona could withdraw from La Liga ( Spanish football league ) and that wouldnt be good for Spanish football to lose one of there biggest clubs with the likes of Messi and co leaving the LA Liga The Spanish government have really brought this on themselves by denying the right to self-determination with if am right the UN back 100% Who would they play if they leave la liga.?They won't leave la liga..Thats unimaginable.Unless plans for a European super league happens.Then its feasible. Yes it could really happen that Barcelona withdraw from La Liga Think of this as a good example Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league there was talk ages ago even though i never thought it would happen and Rangers and Celtic playing in the English football league. So it could happen i dont know if t will but could very well happen. " The English and Scottish FA's wouldn't allow it happen...do you know why ? | |||
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"Anyone seen the statement from Barcelona Football Club? The statement says the Football club are all for self-determination, democracy, the will of the majority of Catalan people. Now if am right it cause problems if Catalonia votes for independence which they will and Barcelona football club respect the will of the people in voting for independence then Barcelona could withdraw from La Liga ( Spanish football league ) and that wouldnt be good for Spanish football to lose one of there biggest clubs with the likes of Messi and co leaving the LA Liga The Spanish government have really brought this on themselves by denying the right to self-determination with if am right the UN back 100% Who would they play if they leave la liga.?They won't leave la liga..Thats unimaginable.Unless plans for a European super league happens.Then its feasible. Yes it could really happen that Barcelona withdraw from La Liga Think of this as a good example Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league there was talk ages ago even though i never thought it would happen and Rangers and Celtic playing in the English football league. So it could happen i dont know if t will but could very well happen. The English and Scottish FA's wouldn't allow it happen...do you know why ? " Am guessing your meaning the Rangers and Celtic thing ? I siad didnt think it was ever going to happen but there was talk back then that it could but i never believed The point is FC Barcelona could with draw from La Liga in the event of Catalonia for independence and the Spanish government not respecting the will of the Catalan people. Also if FC Barcelona did withdraw then am sure as hell there will be alot of FA's around Europe more than happy for FC Barcelona registering to play in their league. Like i said Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league so its not like it can not be done because it can. The Spanish govt would do well to realize its own actions are fueling this independence movement | |||
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"Anyone seen the statement from Barcelona Football Club? The statement says the Football club are all for self-determination, democracy, the will of the majority of Catalan people. Now if am right it cause problems if Catalonia votes for independence which they will and Barcelona football club respect the will of the people in voting for independence then Barcelona could withdraw from La Liga ( Spanish football league ) and that wouldnt be good for Spanish football to lose one of there biggest clubs with the likes of Messi and co leaving the LA Liga The Spanish government have really brought this on themselves by denying the right to self-determination with if am right the UN back 100% Who would they play if they leave la liga.?They won't leave la liga..Thats unimaginable.Unless plans for a European super league happens.Then its feasible. Yes it could really happen that Barcelona withdraw from La Liga Think of this as a good example Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league there was talk ages ago even though i never thought it would happen and Rangers and Celtic playing in the English football league. So it could happen i dont know if t will but could very well happen. The English and Scottish FA's wouldn't allow it happen...do you know why ? Am guessing your meaning the Rangers and Celtic thing ? I siad didnt think it was ever going to happen but there was talk back then that it could but i never believed The point is FC Barcelona could with draw from La Liga in the event of Catalonia for independence and the Spanish government not respecting the will of the Catalan people. Also if FC Barcelona did withdraw then am sure as hell there will be alot of FA's around Europe more than happy for FC Barcelona registering to play in their league. Like i said Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league so its not like it can not be done because it can. The Spanish govt would do well to realize its own actions are fueling this independence movement" Well Monaco plays in the french league but they arent on the same global level as Barcelona. I think the catalans are using Barcelona for political gain.Because la liga would be irrelevant without Barcelona. No more clasico.  Thats a powerful move if that happened. | |||
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"Anyone seen the statement from Barcelona Football Club? The statement says the Football club are all for self-determination, democracy, the will of the majority of Catalan people. Now if am right it cause problems if Catalonia votes for independence which they will and Barcelona football club respect the will of the people in voting for independence then Barcelona could withdraw from La Liga ( Spanish football league ) and that wouldnt be good for Spanish football to lose one of there biggest clubs with the likes of Messi and co leaving the LA Liga The Spanish government have really brought this on themselves by denying the right to self-determination with if am right the UN back 100% Who would they play if they leave la liga.?They won't leave la liga..Thats unimaginable.Unless plans for a European super league happens.Then its feasible. Yes it could really happen that Barcelona withdraw from La Liga Think of this as a good example Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league there was talk ages ago even though i never thought it would happen and Rangers and Celtic playing in the English football league. So it could happen i dont know if t will but could very well happen. The English and Scottish FA's wouldn't allow it happen...do you know why ? Am guessing your meaning the Rangers and Celtic thing ? I siad didnt think it was ever going to happen but there was talk back then that it could but i never believed The point is FC Barcelona could with draw from La Liga in the event of Catalonia for independence and the Spanish government not respecting the will of the Catalan people. Also if FC Barcelona did withdraw then am sure as hell there will be alot of FA's around Europe more than happy for FC Barcelona registering to play in their league. Like i said Cardiff and Swansea both Welsh clubs play in the English football league so its not like it can not be done because it can. The Spanish govt would do well to realize its own actions are fueling this independence movement Well Monaco plays in the french league but they arent on the same global level as Barcelona. I think the catalans are using Barcelona for political gain.Because la liga would be irrelevant without Barcelona. No more clasico. Thats a powerful move if that happened. "Am not saying FC Barcelona will 100% withdraw from La Liga am just saying that its an opinon for them that they could very well withdraw and like i said am sure as hell there would be alot of FA's around Europe trying to get FC Barcelona to register to play in their league. Yes know about Monaco and them registered to play in the French league thats what they choose but they could have easily played and registered in another countries league they choose France thats totally upto them. Just dont be shocked if FC Barcelona took the decision in the events of Catalonia voting for independence and the Spanish government doing everything it can to stop democracy then club officals at FC Barcelona may themselves look into withdrawing from La Liga the clubs fans may even say they want their club to withdraw from La Liga Again am not saying it will happen but dont be shocked if it did because the club do have the right to withdraw themselves it it wont be hard to find a country that wants FC Barcelona to play in their league. The Spanish goverment are pussies simple as that they they are willing to get in the way of democracy and deny people their right to choose their own future. They could allow the referendum to happen set a date and then put it to the people and give them reasons to remain part of Spain but hey i know they know Catalonia would vote for independence and they are shite feart to lose them. It was amazing to watch the Barcalona game the other week their and listen to the crowd all in support of independence. | |||
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"Gotta wonder why the BBC is not reporting the events of whats happening in Catalonia right now with the Spanish government doing everything they can to stop democracy from happening When Catalonia votes for independence on the 1st Oct this will be the fault of the Spanish government for being very heavy handed instead of allowing it and then putting forward reasons for Catalonia to remain part of Spain. " I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it: Catalonia referendum: Spain steps up raids to halt vote - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41331152 | |||
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"Swansea play in the Premier League; Cardiff play in the English Football League. Rangers and Celtic could apply to join the Premier League but the English clubs would never vote for it, as it's like a closed shop. FCB could leave La Liga but that would be commuting economical suicide." So you think if FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga there would be no countries around Europe that their FA's would be trying to get FC Barcelona register to play in their leagues? lol Tell me if that did happen would you be willing to pass up the chance to have FC Barcelona playing in the English football league? | |||
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"Swansea play in the Premier League; Cardiff play in the English Football League. Rangers and Celtic could apply to join the Premier League but the English clubs would never vote for it, as it's like a closed shop. FCB could leave La Liga but that would be commuting economical suicide. So you think if FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga there would be no countries around Europe that their FA's would be trying to get FC Barcelona register to play in their leagues? lol Tell me if that did happen would you be willing to pass up the chance to have FC Barcelona playing in the English football league? " The Premier League and the English Football League are separate entities. The likes of Bolton and Brentford would relish the opportunity to play FCB but you need to read up on the history of FCB. It's a club that's owned by nearly 200000 members, and is like a religion. It shuns many commercial opportunities, and the people of Barcelona love to see their club play. Playing in some foreign league is just not an option for them. | |||
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"Swansea play in the Premier League; Cardiff play in the English Football League. Rangers and Celtic could apply to join the Premier League but the English clubs would never vote for it, as it's like a closed shop. FCB could leave La Liga but that would be commuting economical suicide. So you think if FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga there would be no countries around Europe that their FA's would be trying to get FC Barcelona register to play in their leagues? lol Tell me if that did happen would you be willing to pass up the chance to have FC Barcelona playing in the English football league? The Premier League and the English Football League are separate entities. The likes of Bolton and Brentford would relish the opportunity to play FCB but you need to read up on the history of FCB. It's a club that's owned by nearly 200000 members, and is like a religion. It shuns many commercial opportunities, and the people of Barcelona love to see their club play. Playing in some foreign league is just not an option for them. " Right and have you asked the 20000 members on how the feel ? Again am not saying it will 100% happen but it could happen that FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga and there will be plenty of takers on wanting them to register to play in their leagues. Not an option for them ? Do you know this 100% have you talked to all members / supporters ? | |||
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"Swansea play in the Premier League; Cardiff play in the English Football League. Rangers and Celtic could apply to join the Premier League but the English clubs would never vote for it, as it's like a closed shop. FCB could leave La Liga but that would be commuting economical suicide. So you think if FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga there would be no countries around Europe that their FA's would be trying to get FC Barcelona register to play in their leagues? lol Tell me if that did happen would you be willing to pass up the chance to have FC Barcelona playing in the English football league? The Premier League and the English Football League are separate entities. The likes of Bolton and Brentford would relish the opportunity to play FCB but you need to read up on the history of FCB. It's a club that's owned by nearly 200000 members, and is like a religion. It shuns many commercial opportunities, and the people of Barcelona love to see their club play. Playing in some foreign league is just not an option for them. Right and have you asked the 20000 members on how the feel ? Again am not saying it will 100% happen but it could happen that FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga and there will be plenty of takers on wanting them to register to play in their leagues. Not an option for them ? Do you know this 100% have you talked to all members / supporters ? " It's 200000 members, not 20000! Whilst FCB can afford to jet players around the world, their supporters can't, and that will be the telling factor. Have FCB made any comment that they will/might withdraw from La Liga? | |||
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"Swansea play in the Premier League; Cardiff play in the English Football League. Rangers and Celtic could apply to join the Premier League but the English clubs would never vote for it, as it's like a closed shop. FCB could leave La Liga but that would be commuting economical suicide. So you think if FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga there would be no countries around Europe that their FA's would be trying to get FC Barcelona register to play in their leagues? lol Tell me if that did happen would you be willing to pass up the chance to have FC Barcelona playing in the English football league? The Premier League and the English Football League are separate entities. The likes of Bolton and Brentford would relish the opportunity to play FCB but you need to read up on the history of FCB. It's a club that's owned by nearly 200000 members, and is like a religion. It shuns many commercial opportunities, and the people of Barcelona love to see their club play. Playing in some foreign league is just not an option for them. Right and have you asked the 20000 members on how the feel ? Again am not saying it will 100% happen but it could happen that FC Barcelona withdraw from La Liga and there will be plenty of takers on wanting them to register to play in their leagues. Not an option for them ? Do you know this 100% have you talked to all members / supporters ? It's 200000 members, not 20000! Whilst FCB can afford to jet players around the world, their supporters can't, and that will be the telling factor. Have FCB made any comment that they will/might withdraw from La Liga? " ouch i forgot one ( 0 ) lol Did i say round the world ? Nope i said Europe alot of fans seem happy to pay the price for Champions League tickets they aint cheap but fans still pay so i dont see that as a problem Again am not saying it will happen but it could happen. No Barcelona have not wrote to La Liga to withdraw why would they right now ? But wth what is happening with the events in Catalonia that could all change it may not and FC Barcelona may still in La Liga for all i know but who knows what could happen. All i know it was good to see FC Barcelona come out with an official statement from the club saying they support democracy and the will of the majority of Catalan people and do NOT agree the way the Spanish government are handing this whole thing | |||
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"P.S One last thing before i go make my dinner good old tatties and mince lol SNP MSPs have written a letter to Donald Tusk to intervene in the appalling situation unfolding in Catalonia Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood condemned the Spanish Government, saying: “In a democratic country it is crucial that citizens are able to debate the future of their nation Sinn Fein has also condemed what is happening Where in the hell is the UK government condemning this ? Oh wait its the Tories they believe in dictatorships " Why should the UK government condemn it? Spain is a constitutional country, and it's not for us to interfere in their affairs. Can you name one country that has condemned Spain? | |||
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"P.S One last thing before i go make my dinner good old tatties and mince lol SNP MSPs have written a letter to Donald Tusk to intervene in the appalling situation unfolding in Catalonia Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood condemned the Spanish Government, saying: “In a democratic country it is crucial that citizens are able to debate the future of their nation Sinn Fein has also condemed what is happening Where in the hell is the UK government condemning this ? Oh wait its the Tories they believe in dictatorships Why should the UK government condemn it? Spain is a constitutional country, and it's not for us to interfere in their affairs. Can you name one country that has condemned Spain?" Lol but its fine for English mp's and leaders to interfere in the Scottish independence referendum ? Before you say no they didnt i clearly remember Cameron , Clegg and Miliband all coming up to Scotland to tell us to vote no Remember now these unionist parties do have branch offices in Scotland that have so called leaders and that time it was Ruth Davidson , Jim Murphy and Willie Rennie so are the unionist parties telling us they Scottish leaders are piss poor eh lol | |||
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"P.S One last thing before i go make my dinner good old tatties and mince lol SNP MSPs have written a letter to Donald Tusk to intervene in the appalling situation unfolding in Catalonia Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood condemned the Spanish Government, saying: “In a democratic country it is crucial that citizens are able to debate the future of their nation Sinn Fein has also condemed what is happening Where in the hell is the UK government condemning this ? Oh wait its the Tories they believe in dictatorships Why should the UK government condemn it? Spain is a constitutional country, and it's not for us to interfere in their affairs. Can you name one country that has condemned Spain? Lol but its fine for English mp's and leaders to interfere in the Scottish independence referendum ? Before you say no they didnt i clearly remember Cameron , Clegg and Miliband all coming up to Scotland to tell us to vote no Remember now these unionist parties do have branch offices in Scotland that have so called leaders and that time it was Ruth Davidson , Jim Murphy and Willie Rennie so are the unionist parties telling us they Scottish leaders are piss poor eh lol " Interfere? That was a legal referendum agreed by both parties. You seem to be confusing the issue here. The proposed Catalan referendum is not legal, certainly hasn't been agreed by both sides and no amount of cheerleading from the sidelines by other nationalist parties is going to make it legally binding. | |||
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"P.S One last thing before i go make my dinner good old tatties and mince lol SNP MSPs have written a letter to Donald Tusk to intervene in the appalling situation unfolding in Catalonia Plaid Cymru leader Leanne Wood condemned the Spanish Government, saying: “In a democratic country it is crucial that citizens are able to debate the future of their nation Sinn Fein has also condemed what is happening Where in the hell is the UK government condemning this ? Oh wait its the Tories they believe in dictatorships Why should the UK government condemn it? Spain is a constitutional country, and it's not for us to interfere in their affairs. Can you name one country that has condemned Spain? Lol but its fine for English mp's and leaders to interfere in the Scottish independence referendum ? Before you say no they didnt i clearly remember Cameron , Clegg and Miliband all coming up to Scotland to tell us to vote no Remember now these unionist parties do have branch offices in Scotland that have so called leaders and that time it was Ruth Davidson , Jim Murphy and Willie Rennie so are the unionist parties telling us they Scottish leaders are piss poor eh lol Interfere? That was a legal referendum agreed by both parties. You seem to be confusing the issue here. The proposed Catalan referendum is not legal, certainly hasn't been agreed by both sides and no amount of cheerleading from the sidelines by other nationalist parties is going to make it legally binding." Interesting was the EU referendum legally binding ? But thats for the UK government to press ahead and do what they want eh lol | |||
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"Speaks volumes that the UK government are the only ones from the UK to not say a word on what the Spanish government are doing and condemning them. The devolved parliaments / Assemblies of Wales and Scotland are saying for the Spanish government to encourage a solution of dialogue instead of forceful means. Look at the streets in Catalonia people are protesting peacefully and doing nothing wrong Says it all about the UK government not saying a damn word" What did Spain say about the Scottish independence referendum that you lost? | |||
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"Haha love them! I actually did wonder yesterday how it could still go ahead, still don't know how, but I'm so pleased it's still on Barcelona dockers are refusing to unload a ship full of police riot gear "Yeah you've got to love people who fight for their right to decide their own future.Theyve called for citzens to defend polling stations against the police.If spain goes ahead and begins arresting all the mayors as its threatened .It could get very messy. | |||
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"A public survey commissioned by the Catalan government in July suggested 49% of Catalans opposed independence, while 41% were in favour. If there is a similar result on 1st October (if the referendum goes ahead) will those in favour of independence respect the outcome?" Polls never will show the true figure Yes i would respect the vote. But in a way this now has become bigger than independence this now is an attack on democracy the people in Catalonia elected their goverment and they have every right to hold a referendum what is Spain so worried about eh ? Lol | |||
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"A public survey commissioned by the Catalan government in July suggested 49% of Catalans opposed independence, while 41% were in favour. If there is a similar result on 1st October (if the referendum goes ahead) will those in favour of independence respect the outcome?" The de facto Catalan government said they would respect the outcome either way. Support in favour of independence has been marginally under 50%, after they rounded up the Catalan mayors last week it rose to just over 50%, I saw a poll this morning after yesterday's events putting it at 66% | |||
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" Yes i would respect the vote. " That will be a first for you then! | |||
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" Yes i would respect the vote. That will be a first for you then!" In what way have i not respected any other referendum vote ? Scotland voted no in 2014 and that has been respected as Scotland is not independent Since then Scotland has elected SNP on their manifestos to have the right to hold an independence referendum thats a mandate Democracy didnt end on the 18th Sept 2014 lol | |||
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" Yes i would respect the vote. That will be a first for you then! In what way have i not respected any other referendum vote ? Scotland voted no in 2014 and that has been respected as Scotland is not independent Since then Scotland has elected SNP on their manifestos to have the right to hold an independence referendum thats a mandate Democracy didnt end on the 18th Sept 2014 lol " Even though the vote was illegally subverted at the eleventh hour by the dishonourable Gordon Brown devo-max vow and the queen's earlier intervention was no less illegal, there was absolutely no violence on behalf of the YES voters. The only violence came from the 'loyal' unionist thugs who rioted in George square and attacked the yessers who were having a wake for democracy. The good news for indyref 2 is that the establishment's Project Fear is a busted flush, thoroughly destroyed during the course of the brexit campaign. | |||
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(to parpaphrase Apocalypse now)  | |||
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"I love the smell of hurt from Seperatists in the morning
(to parpaphrase Apocalypse now) "Separatists ? Ah see so democracy is not important enough for some. The Catalan people elected a party in government to hold a referendum thats a mandate from the people Bigger question here is what is the Spanish government so afraid of? Why not allow a legally binding referendum to take place even set a date to give them time to give people reasons to remain part of Spain ? But no democracy is out the window with the Spanish government they know for a fact they have lost Catalonia No one ever seems to question America's independence which btw was UDI against guess who? Lol The UK lmao The events in Catalonia is now sadly not just about independence its a damn well attack on democracy and those that are fine to just walk on by and not care shows me that you dont believe in democracy | |||
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"I love the smell of hurt from Seperatists in the morning
(to parpaphrase Apocalypse now) "I wonder if the Catalans have an equivalent expression for Uncle Jocks? Proud Catalans, perhaps | |||
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"I love the smell of hurt from Seperatists in the morning
(to parpaphrase Apocalypse now)
Separatists ? Ah see so democracy is not important enough for some.
The Catalan people elected a party in government to hold a referendum thats a mandate from the people
Bigger question here is what is the Spanish government so afraid of?
Why not allow a legally binding referendum to take place even set a date to give them time to give people reasons to remain part of Spain ? But no democracy is out the window with the Spanish government they know for a fact they have lost Catalonia
No one ever seems to question America's independence which btw was UDI against guess who? Lol The UK lmao
The events in Catalonia is now sadly not just about independence its a damn well attack on democracy and those that are fine to just walk on by and not care shows me that you dont believe in democracy
"In order for the referendum to be legally binding, both sides need to agree to it. If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them." Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. | |||
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"I love the smell of hurt from Seperatists in the morning
(to parpaphrase Apocalypse now)
Separatists ? Ah see so democracy is not important enough for some.
The Catalan people elected a party in government to hold a referendum thats a mandate from the people
Bigger question here is what is the Spanish government so afraid of?
Why not allow a legally binding referendum to take place even set a date to give them time to give people reasons to remain part of Spain ? But no democracy is out the window with the Spanish government they know for a fact they have lost Catalonia
No one ever seems to question America's independence which btw was UDI against guess who? Lol The UK lmao
The events in Catalonia is now sadly not just about independence its a damn well attack on democracy and those that are fine to just walk on by and not care shows me that you dont believe in democracy
"No one seems to question it?
They fought a war over it for godsake!
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"If they want Independance then why not ? "It seems we might be entering an era of devolution and independence. | |||
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"If they want Independance then why not ? It seems we might be entering an era of devolution and independence. "And guess what ? That could lead to Workd Peace | |||
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"I have woke up to good news Spanish justice releases detained Catalan government members Safe to say the government in Madrid have bottled it and know they we are in the wrong for trying to stop democracy and people's right to decide their future That should be a warning to the UK government on why they shouldnt block a Scottish referendum knowing full well the Scottish government do have a mandate from the people." They had a referendum... the democratic decision of the Scottish people was to stay in the union. Is it democratic to keep having referendums every 3 years until you get the result you want? | |||
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"I have woke up to good news Spanish justice releases detained Catalan government members Safe to say the government in Madrid have bottled it and know they we are in the wrong for trying to stop democracy and people's right to decide their future That should be a warning to the UK government on why they shouldnt block a Scottish referendum knowing full well the Scottish government do have a mandate from the people. They had a referendum... the democratic decision of the Scottish people was to stay in the union. Is it democratic to keep having referendums every 3 years until you get the result you want?" Well the real question, is do you think that the SNP would allow reunification referendums in an independent Scotland? | |||
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"You misunderstand Scottish politics. In an independent Scotland, there would be NO SNP. " | |||
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"I have woke up to good news Spanish justice releases detained Catalan government members Safe to say the government in Madrid have bottled it and know they we are in the wrong for trying to stop democracy and people's right to decide their future That should be a warning to the UK government on why they shouldnt block a Scottish referendum knowing full well the Scottish government do have a mandate from the people." As far as I'm aware It is in the Spanish Constitution that any referendum held MUST be a referendum for the whole of Spain. Catalonia is a region. Therefore in Spanish Law the organisers of an illegal referendum are open to prosecution. That is why these arrests took place. The Spanish courts are only upholding Spanish Law You can't compare it to the UK which is comprised of the four separate home nations, Scotland, England, Wales and N Ireland. It isn't illegal for the home nations under British Law to have referendums. | |||
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"So which party would govern Scotland?" Whichever party the people voted for. It would revert to usual suspects- Labour, Conservatives etc etc. Do you not know this? | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans." Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one. | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one." Have to disagree. On Catalonia, they are dead set against democracy or self-determination. In terms of outlook, they are remnants and inheritors of Franco's fascist regime and its centralist, absolutist psychology. | |||
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"I have woke up to good news Spanish justice releases detained Catalan government members Safe to say the government in Madrid have bottled it and know they we are in the wrong for trying to stop democracy and people's right to decide their future That should be a warning to the UK government on why they shouldnt block a Scottish referendum knowing full well the Scottish government do have a mandate from the people. They had a referendum... the democratic decision of the Scottish people was to stay in the union. Is it democratic to keep having referendums every 3 years until you get the result you want?" It certainly is a subversion of democracy when you interfere in the debate with abarrage of propaganda and lies, orchestrated hostile interventions by international politician chums interfering in an internal debate, wheel out the allegedly neutral monarch to add her biased view, fund the bitter together by money from extremely dodgy external sources, distort the news coverage vis a 99% pro-britnat biased media prepared to indulge in fake, manufactured news, and then break the electoral laws at the eleventh hour when polls indicate that you are headed for defeat. British democracy? Laughable. | |||
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"So which party would govern Scotland? Whichever party the people voted for. It would revert to usual suspects- Labour, Conservatives etc etc. Do you not know this?" Quite a few on here are happy to sound off on topics about which they know little | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one. Have to disagree. On Catalonia, they are dead set against democracy or self-determination. In terms of outlook, they are remnants and inheritors of Franco's fascist regime and its centralist, absolutist psychology." And what of the rule of law and that the people of the rest of Spain right to self determination? Or do these not matter if one is sufficiently convinced of their own righteousness? | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one. Have to disagree. On Catalonia, they are dead set against democracy or self-determination. In terms of outlook, they are remnants and inheritors of Franco's fascist regime and its centralist, absolutist psychology. And what of the rule of law and that the people of the rest of Spain right to self determination? Or do these not matter if one is sufficiently convinced of their own righteousness? " Self determination is a human right acknowledged by the UN, nothing to do with righteousness. Catalonian independence does not impinge upon the rights of the citizens of other regions within the Spanish state. Spain without Catalonia may be poorer, just as rUK without Scotland will certainly be poorer (why else would London be so hostile?), but enjoyment to spend the tax take from another country/region is not a human right! | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one. Have to disagree. On Catalonia, they are dead set against democracy or self-determination. In terms of outlook, they are remnants and inheritors of Franco's fascist regime and its centralist, absolutist psychology." Dare you to say to a Basque or Catalonian they are Franco supporters. | |||
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" It certainly is a subversion of democracy when you interfere in the debate with abarrage of propaganda and lies, orchestrated hostile interventions by international politician chums interfering in an internal debate, wheel out the allegedly neutral monarch to add her biased view, fund the bitter together by money from extremely dodgy external sources, distort the news coverage vis a 99% pro-britnat biased media prepared to indulge in fake, manufactured news, and then break the electoral laws at the eleventh hour when polls indicate that you are headed for defeat. British democracy? Laughable." I think the Scottish people, even the 16 & 17 year olds who voted, were intelligent enough to make their own minds up about independence without any outside interference. You obviously think otherwise of your fellow Scots. | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one. Have to disagree. On Catalonia, they are dead set against democracy or self-determination. In terms of outlook, they are remnants and inheritors of Franco's fascist regime and its centralist, absolutist psychology. And what of the rule of law and that the people of the rest of Spain right to self determination? Or do these not matter if one is sufficiently convinced of their own righteousness? Self determination is a human right acknowledged by the UN, nothing to do with righteousness. Catalonian independence does not impinge upon the rights of the citizens of other regions within the Spanish state. " Clearly, the rest of Spain disagrees with you. So, who are you to deny their self determination. | |||
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"In a parallel scenario to our Scottish Referendum, the Catalan Goverment have passed a bill to hold their own Independence referendum on October 1st. Should the vote go their way, they have promised to declare a Catalan republic within 48 hours. The Spanish government are livid, not sure what the EU position is yet." Is this referendum vote still going ahead? Quite interested as we're over there this weekend... | |||
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"In a parallel scenario to our Scottish Referendum, the Catalan Goverment have passed a bill to hold their own Independence referendum on October 1st. Should the vote go their way, they have promised to declare a Catalan republic within 48 hours. The Spanish government are livid, not sure what the EU position is yet. Is this referendum vote still going ahead? Quite interested as we're over there this weekend... " it's going ahead ... we are playing one of many gigs as musical representatives of European Free Alliance in support Catalunya Libra | |||
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"In a parallel scenario to our Scottish Referendum, the Catalan Goverment have passed a bill to hold their own Independence referendum on October 1st. Should the vote go their way, they have promised to declare a Catalan republic within 48 hours. The Spanish government are livid, not sure what the EU position is yet. Is this referendum vote still going ahead? Quite interested as we're over there this weekend... it's going ahead ... we are playing one of many gigs as musical representatives of European Free Alliance in support Catalunya Libra "Hope to see the Catalunya Libra flags out on Sunday. This could be an interesting weekend | |||
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"it's an electrifying atmosphere in Barca ... it's going to be one hell of a gig tonight "
Under a law passed by the local parliament, Catalan leaders say they may declare independence from Spain within 48 hours of the vote. | |||
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"If we're going to cast aspirations on people, then perhaps we need to ask why the Catalonian government thinks the rules don't apply to them. Probably because the centralist government in Madrid doesn't give a 4X about democracy or the rights of self-determination of the Catalans. Which is a punchy response, if not an accurate one. Have to disagree. On Catalonia, they are dead set against democracy or self-determination. In terms of outlook, they are remnants and inheritors of Franco's fascist regime and its centralist, absolutist psychology. Dare you to say to a Basque or Catalonian they are Franco supporters."
Wrong end of the stick, there. | |||
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"as much as i like democracy.... the government of catalonia could have gone about this the legally right way and negoiated this with the spanish government, as opposed to unilatary announcing this would go ahead.... this isn't really a fair contest as none of the rules have been followed to.... it have been all yes as the "no" people and parties have boycotted this vote...... in fact those have asked people to boycott the vote.... so i don't see how this is going to be recognised by anyone.... saying all that, i dont with the spanish governments positon of potentially trying to stop the vote going ahead by force... that sends out the wrong message and i think will inflame the situation...." The Catalonia government have tried to negotiate with the Spanish government but it is the Spanish government that keep doing everything they can to stop it from happening. The people in Catalonia elected a party into goverment that had a policy to have an independence referendum thats a mandate from the people. What else would you have the Catalan government do if the Spanish government are trying to deny democracy The UK government would do well not to follow in the footsteps of the Spanish government by trying to deny/ block a Scottish independence referendum our government have a triple lock mandate to have the right to hold a referendum once the brexit deal is known. | |||
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"This will not end well for either side I fear. Hopefully no violence, but I would imagine tensions are running high. The Spanish Goverment, whilst acting heavy handed, have the legitimacy here. Allowing regions to leave would set a dangerous precedent. Its not gone un-noticed that Catalonia is a rich region and contributes 20% of the Spanish gdp.I'm sure that the Northern League in Italy are watching this weekends events with deep interest!" I know this may sound trivial , but it's not meant to be , but given the Passion for Barcleona FC , if they were independent what league and who who would they play against ? | |||
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"This will not end well for either side I fear. Hopefully no violence, but I would imagine tensions are running high. The Spanish Goverment, whilst acting heavy handed, have the legitimacy here. Allowing regions to leave would set a dangerous precedent. Its not gone un-noticed that Catalonia is a rich region and contributes 20% of the Spanish gdp.I'm sure that the Northern League in Italy are watching this weekends events with deep interest! I know this may sound trivial , but it's not meant to be , but given the Passion for Barcleona FC , if they were independent what league and who who would they play against ? " It's an argument I had last week. I can see no scenario where they would pull out of La Liga. The only other alternative is to set up a separate Catalan league. This would affect Espanyol and Girona as well. | |||
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