FabSwingers.com > Forums > Politics > A hail Mary from the Lib Dems?
A hail Mary from the Lib Dems?
Jump to: Newest in thread
 |
By *ilk_Tre OP Man
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
It sounds kinda sensible to have a referendum based on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. That way, the public can make a decision based on more accurate information.
But a part of me thinks that they are positioning themselves as the "Brexit party" because they have nothing to lose (and everything to gain).
Will those who have never voted for the Lib Dems do so now simply to exit Brexit? Will it be enough for them to win? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It sounds kinda sensible to have a referendum based on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. That way, the public can make a decision based on more accurate information.
But a part of me thinks that they are positioning themselves as the "Brexit party" because they have nothing to lose (and everything to gain).
Will those who have never voted for the Lib Dems do so now simply to exit Brexit? Will it be enough for them to win? "
I think it does indeed make sense to let the people decide once the negotiations are all done....but it wont happen as the Tories see brexit as a way of grabbing more power for themselves.
As for the Libs i wouldn't vote for them after getting in to bed with them |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for."
Wrong...the brexit referendum was advisory |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for."
Hold up I thought it was advisory...
Oh and funnily enough, I think its a good idea, personally if my job was in manufacturing, and it was part of a supply chain which needed access to the customs union , I'd like a say on that if the promises of the pro-leave group arent mey |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The country voted. If politicians decide to ignore the country, that would be the end of democracy. We are leaving. There will be no further vote."
It was advisory...it even said on the ballot paper lol  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for.
Wrong...the brexit referendum was advisory "
Yes it was and the government are doing what they were advised to do LEAVE.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for.
Wrong...the brexit referendum was advisory
Yes it was and the government are doing what they were advised to do LEAVE. "
On the bias of lies....im guessing a lot more would change there minds now given the chance....and again your wrong the government didnt do anything YET....all they have done is trigger article 50....they could change there minds yet given they will do almost anything to stay in power |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea."
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
More to the point, if we hold that being opposed to, and working to undo, the result of a referendum is "undemocratic" then how do we then judge parties like UKIP who explicitly opposed and have successfully undermined the results of the 1975 referendum on remaining within the EEC?
Of course, we could recognise that dissent is not treason, but that would require more nuance than is allowed in a world where people are sincerely claiming that the issue has been put to bed forever. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The country democratically voted to leave the EU. The government are effecting that decision. That is democracy. End of."
It was still advisory....not binding and i thought 7% or leavers HAVE changed there minds....so you had better hope May and Co have there act together which i doubt |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Of course it was binding. You cannot ask the country and then ignore it. Democracy demands that you follow what the country decided."
You really think that ?...the government can change there minds at anytime....and will do you make my words...reason is they want to stay in power and will do anything to do so |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea."
What if you are an MP in a constituency which voted remain, is it okay for them to table an 'exit from brexit?'
I mean you talk of parlimentary democracy, so what comes first your constituents or the nation? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If they had ignored the country, then that would have been the end of parliamentary democracy."
No, that's wrong.
Parliamentary sovereignty means they could literally have told people to go fucking swivel, and the UK would still be a Parliament democracy.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"If they had ignored the country, then that would have been the end of parliamentary democracy."
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
Not the mp taking orders from their constituency. Imagine that, you'd have an mp with split personality disorder, one wanting to scrap welfare, the other wanting to making everyone rich on it.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"The nation as a whole voted for it. The majority voted for it. That is how a democracy works."
But that contradicts parlimentary democracy which you claim we are first and foremost. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Really. It would have brought the system down. You cannot ask people, then ignore them."
Ghe system is already broken down from several decades of ideology driven government. The best thing about that sodding referendum is that it got people to reregister snd register on the voting record |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Really. It would have brought the system down. You cannot ask people, then ignore them."
Of course you can.
Especially in a parliamentary democracy, with an advisory referendum.
And given the thin margins involved, it was a storm that could have been weathered. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab "
.
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know "
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
"
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories."
.
Only in your head |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories..
Only in your head"
Sadly, no.
The Tories are the ones handling the mistake that is Brexit, they ran an election on that very idea, and are the ones defining exactly what kind of Brexit will be inflicted on the UK. They are the Brexit party, especially since they devoured UKIP.
Your support for Brexit is support for those implementing it, even if it's only for the short term.
And I'm certain you feel that you're an exception, but you're only fooling yourself. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories..
Only in your head
Sadly, no.
The Tories are the ones handling the mistake that is Brexit, they ran an election on that very idea, and are the ones defining exactly what kind of Brexit will be inflicted on the UK. They are the Brexit party, especially since they devoured UKIP.
Your support for Brexit is support for those implementing it, even if it's only for the short term.
And I'm certain you feel that you're an exception, but you're only fooling yourself."
.
No your still doing that lefty trait of victimisation and identity politics.
I'm perfectly capable of being for 1 policy yet against 99 other policies.
Just because I'm left or right doesn't make anybody guilty of anything other than voting for a policy.
The Tories are making mistakes, then voting will reflect that won't it?.
Sure there could be some trade offs with voters, ie I'm willing to put up with X to get z but soon as I get z ...X gets fucked off
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories..
Only in your head
Sadly, no.
The Tories are the ones handling the mistake that is Brexit, they ran an election on that very idea, and are the ones defining exactly what kind of Brexit will be inflicted on the UK. They are the Brexit party, especially since they devoured UKIP.
Your support for Brexit is support for those implementing it, even if it's only for the short term.
And I'm certain you feel that you're an exception, but you're only fooling yourself..
No your still doing that lefty trait of victimisation and identity politics.
"
I'm not sure those words mean what you think they mean.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
maybe its just me... well probably not....
i just don't see why people are so adament that they don't want to know what the deal actually means...
they are so focused on the "leave" part... you'd get the feeling that if they then added in the clause "even person who voted leave must pay 10000 pounds... and their first born offspring" they would be fine with it....
its not even a case of leave or stay, its a case of " do i think that this motley crew will get the uk a deal they is beneficial to most people?" and i don't think i can! i mean lets look at the evidence so far!
and people who voted leave want to give this lot a blank cheque!!! crackers....
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilk_Tre OP Man
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them..."
But you can request a refund if you take the goods home and find that they are not of "merchantable quality" or not as described when you purchased them. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilk_Tre OP Man
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
"
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! "
Shhhh we aren't supposed to say brexit is all about immigrants.... |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic."
I wasnt implying it is. Just merely that some MP's might have constituents involved in supply chain economics or eu projects which the constituents did not realise.
Moral vs pragmatist question I guess, where does democracy end, and mob rule strawmanning begin? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilk_Tre OP Man
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! Shhhh we aren't supposed to say brexit is all about immigrants...."
Sorry. I forgot that it's about keeping our bananas straight...or not...I forget now.  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilk_Tre OP Man
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic.
I wasnt implying it is. Just merely that some MP's might have constituents involved in supply chain economics or eu projects which the constituents did not realise.
Moral vs pragmatist question I guess, where does democracy end, and mob rule strawmanning begin?"
As someone who has done a lot of work with voluntary organisations, I know that they are going to be hit EXTREMELY hard by Brexit. I worked with one organisation who received five million pounds for a five year project to serve people in a large geographical area (mostly Bristol but also other areas as it was dependent on personal circumstances).
So much for looking after British interests though...  |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *ilk_Tre OP Man
over a year ago
Wherever the party is! |
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic.
I wasnt implying it is. Just merely that some MP's might have constituents involved in supply chain economics or eu projects which the constituents did not realise.
Moral vs pragmatist question I guess, where does democracy end, and mob rule strawmanning begin?
As someone who has done a lot of work with voluntary organisations, I know that they are going to be hit EXTREMELY hard by Brexit. I worked with one organisation who received five million pounds for a five year project to serve people in a large geographical area (mostly Bristol but also other areas as it was dependent on personal circumstances).
So much for looking after British interests though... "
I mean the organisation was granted 5 million from the EU. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for.
Wrong...the brexit referendum was advisory "
Followed by an overwhelming vote in parliament to endorse the result and to trigger article 50. Gina Millers actions meant that the decision went to full parliament...so it is no longer advisory. She basically gave a boost to Brexit by doing this.
Either way the advisory referendum was called so the people could advise the government. It would be wrong not to take that advice.
Add to that the noises coming from Bruxelles seem to indicate that once terms are agreed....they won't have us back anyway. In 18 months we are out...on whatever terms we are offered...or on no terms at all. That is the only likely choice we will have....deal or no deal basically!
This whole debate is rendered irrelevant if the rhetoric from the EU is true. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Nonsense. It's not Marks & Spencer, where you can take the clothes back, because you have changed your mind after buying them.
The country voted for Brexit unconditionally. There was no option on the ballot paper that said - Leave the EU, depending on the terms of the deal.
This is yet another attempt re-run the vote, because they did not like the result.
Funny how they never asked to re-run the general election after they formed the coalition that no one voted for.
Wrong...the brexit referendum was advisory
Followed by an overwhelming vote in parliament to endorse the result and to trigger article 50. Gina Millers actions meant that the decision went to full parliament...so it is no longer advisory. She basically gave a boost to Brexit by doing this.
Either way the advisory referendum was called so the people could advise the government. It would be wrong not to take that advice.
Add to that the noises coming from Bruxelles seem to indicate that once terms are agreed....they won't have us back anyway. In 18 months we are out...on whatever terms we are offered...or on no terms at all. That is the only likely choice we will have....deal or no deal basically!
This whole debate is rendered irrelevant if the rhetoric from the EU is true."
It is still advisory they voted in parliament to trigger the process...that process can be ended at any time by the government in power....Gina Miller stopped them doing what there trying to to now with The Great Repeal Bill....and that will be stopped as well once the courts rule on it....and it will BE yet again UK courts judging on it NOT the EU ones.
Some people are blind to all this process...and you know what it wont make an iota of difference to immigration like they think |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories..
Only in your head
Sadly, no.
The Tories are the ones handling the mistake that is Brexit, they ran an election on that very idea, and are the ones defining exactly what kind of Brexit will be inflicted on the UK. They are the Brexit party, especially since they devoured UKIP.
Your support for Brexit is support for those implementing it, even if it's only for the short term.
And I'm certain you feel that you're an exception, but you're only fooling yourself..
No your still doing that lefty trait of victimisation and identity politics.
I'm not sure those words mean what you think they mean.
"
In the referendum BOTH Torres and labour official line was pro remain (just as BOTH parties had high profile brexiters in their ranks too). No difference.
After referendum and in last election campaign BOTH main parties said they accepted the vote (they both voted FOR article 50) and BOTH parties campaigned in election for pro brexit policies.
To say align a Tory vote with a brexit vote is total bollocks! There was a stronger brexit vote in most labour seats. So yes...you are dodging the issue by confusion, smoke and mirrors. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories..
Only in your head
Sadly, no.
The Tories are the ones handling the mistake that is Brexit, they ran an election on that very idea, and are the ones defining exactly what kind of Brexit will be inflicted on the UK. They are the Brexit party, especially since they devoured UKIP.
Your support for Brexit is support for those implementing it, even if it's only for the short term.
And I'm certain you feel that you're an exception, but you're only fooling yourself..
No your still doing that lefty trait of victimisation and identity politics.
I'm not sure those words mean what you think they mean.
In the referendum BOTH Torres and labour official line was pro remain (just as BOTH parties had high profile brexiters in their ranks too). No difference.
After referendum and in last election campaign BOTH main parties said they accepted the vote (they both voted FOR article 50) and BOTH parties campaigned in election for pro brexit policies.
To say align a Tory vote with a brexit vote is total bollocks! There was a stronger brexit vote in most labour seats. So yes...you are dodging the issue by confusion, smoke and mirrors."
Dosent matter...and you missed the point...Mrs Maybe called the election to strengthen her hand in Brexit...THE torie did fuck up with brexit and still how people voted in constituencies does not matter.
CaMorron called the referendum to get rid of UKIP...it backfired.
Maybe called the election to give her more power....it backfired |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! Shhhh we aren't supposed to say brexit is all about immigrants...."
.
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture, the Japanese do it, the Chinese do it, the Indians do it.. Managed immigration maintains and allows for slow paced evolution of culture.
Ask the Palestinians and North American Indians what happens when you have unlimited immigration, it changes irreversibly, sometimes for good and sometimes for worse.
If I emigrated to Japan and live there for 30 years while completely immersing and surrounding myself in Japanese culture,I still won't be a Japanese ninja .
Although I may fit into Japanese society better than if half a million mancs emigrate there and build old Trafford, some pubs and wear swimming shorts in the winter |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! Shhhh we aren't supposed to say brexit is all about immigrants.....
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture, the Japanese do it, the Chinese do it, the Indians do it.. Managed immigration maintains and allows for slow paced evolution of culture.
Ask the Palestinians and North American Indians what happens when you have unlimited immigration, it changes irreversibly, sometimes for good and sometimes for worse.
If I emigrated to Japan and live there for 30 years while completely immersing and surrounding myself in Japanese culture,I still won't be a Japanese ninja.
Although I may fit into Japanese society better than if half a million mancs emigrate there and build old Trafford, some pubs and wear swimming shorts in the winter "
I think I'll get a group of Yorkshire folk together and create new Jorvik in Japan :P I mean we drink lots of tea so that's a shared cultural point right? :P |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! Shhhh we aren't supposed to say brexit is all about immigrants.....
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture, the Japanese do it, the Chinese do it, the Indians do it.. Managed immigration maintains and allows for slow paced evolution of culture.
Ask the Palestinians and North American Indians what happens when you have unlimited immigration, it changes irreversibly, sometimes for good and sometimes for worse.
If I emigrated to Japan and live there for 30 years while completely immersing and surrounding myself in Japanese culture,I still won't be a Japanese ninja.
Although I may fit into Japanese society better than if half a million mancs emigrate there and build old Trafford, some pubs and wear swimming shorts in the winter
I think I'll get a group of Yorkshire folk together and create new Jorvik in Japan :P I mean we drink lots of tea so that's a shared cultural point right? :P"
.
We only share culture when one culture is dominant!.
Multiculturalism was about sharing cultures on a slow and steady basis and it was working until somebody just went oh fuck it.
So now we are where we are.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By *abioMan
over a year ago
Newcastle and Gateshead |
"
So now we are where we are.
"
the analogy i use is they you wouldn't commit to buying a car, without knowing the type, or the colour or the specs, or the make/model or the condition of the car, or the price
and yet... this is what basically people who object to a 2nd vote are asking people to do.....
okay so you want leave.... and then what exactly????
as much as i love "leaps of faith" and "steps into the unknown".... you wouldn't agree to let someone do surgery on you if after you signed all the consent forms you were then told it was going to be done by a binman (no offence to binmen!) |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"...they are so focused on the "leave" part...
The irony is, the very people that they want to keep out of the country will STILL be eligible to live and work in this country AFTER we leave the EU! Shhhh we aren't supposed to say brexit is all about immigrants.....
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture, the Japanese do it, the Chinese do it, the Indians do it.. Managed immigration maintains and allows for slow paced evolution of culture.
Ask the Palestinians and North American Indians what happens when you have unlimited immigration, it changes irreversibly, sometimes for good and sometimes for worse.
If I emigrated to Japan and live there for 30 years while completely immersing and surrounding myself in Japanese culture,I still won't be a Japanese ninja.
Although I may fit into Japanese society better than if half a million mancs emigrate there and build old Trafford, some pubs and wear swimming shorts in the winter
I think I'll get a group of Yorkshire folk together and create new Jorvik in Japan :P I mean we drink lots of tea so that's a shared cultural point right? :P.
We only share culture when one culture is dominant!.
Multiculturalism was about sharing cultures on a slow and steady basis and it was working until somebody just went oh fuck it.
So now we are where we are.
"
You cant stop the homogenization of the species.Regarding culture we in the west are the dominant culture. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
I've never objected to another vote on "the terms".
I've never said we'll be better off financially, in fact I thought and said around a 3-5% drop in GDP for the near term future was my "best guess".
I'm not afraid of democracy or protests or legal challenges, I think holding ANY government to account is important.
I'm not a fan of global trade agreements, I'm not a fan of free trade agreements,I think the euro will be a disaster sooner or later, I think free movement is a great idea but shittly implemented, it wasn't done for my benefit though to be honest |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
98% of people in France Germany the UK, Holland, Sweden, Denmark.... They never go anywhere, most die 50 miles from where they were born, it's intrinsic human nature.
Given that fact I've never understood the rush to give everybody "free movement".
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories..
Only in your head
Sadly, no.
The Tories are the ones handling the mistake that is Brexit, they ran an election on that very idea, and are the ones defining exactly what kind of Brexit will be inflicted on the UK. They are the Brexit party, especially since they devoured UKIP.
Your support for Brexit is support for those implementing it, even if it's only for the short term.
And I'm certain you feel that you're an exception, but you're only fooling yourself..
No your still doing that lefty trait of victimisation and identity politics.
I'm not sure those words mean what you think they mean.
In the referendum BOTH Torres and labour official line was pro remain (just as BOTH parties had high profile brexiters in their ranks too). No difference.
After referendum and in last election campaign BOTH main parties said they accepted the vote (they both voted FOR article 50) and BOTH parties campaigned in election for pro brexit policies.
To say align a Tory vote with a brexit vote is total bollocks! There was a stronger brexit vote in most labour seats. So yes...you are dodging the issue by confusion, smoke and mirrors."
And yet it's the Tories that are in the driving seat.
So it may make people feel better, but the brexit process is being shaped by the Tories, so as long as people support the process they're backing the Tories.
Politics makes for strange bedfellows, eh? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture, "
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"98% of people in France Germany the UK, Holland, Sweden, Denmark.... They never go anywhere, most die 50 miles from where they were born, it's intrinsic human nature.
Given that fact I've never understood the rush to give everybody "free movement".
"
, It has been estimated by the World Bank that between 4.5 million and 5.5 million Britons live abroad, that's around 7-8% of the UK population.The ONS doesnt hold statistics on this number. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed."
.
You sound like Hitler |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler"
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mono culture is so boring and so very 20th century.One people one land sounds familar  "
That's a good slogan, but I feel it needs a little something extra. Rule of three and all that. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe."
.
No I was more meaning your attitude to eradicating a culture just because you don't like or agree with it!.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mono culture is so boring and so very 20th century.One people one land sounds familar "
.
Well practically nobody in the world agrees with you I'm afraid.
I can't think of a single indigenous people or culture anywhere in the world that wants to destroy itself except liberal white people |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mono culture is so boring and so very 20th century.One people one land sounds familar "
Sadly that's what we are getting EVERYWHERE
A facebook led narcissistic race to the bottom.
Music, art and humanity all down the drain |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed."
And that folks is how the left became worse than the right |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mono culture is so boring and so very 20th century.One people one land sounds familar .
Well practically nobody in the world agrees with you I'm afraid.
I can't think of a single indigenous people or culture anywhere in the world that wants to destroy itself except liberal white people"
 |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mono culture is so boring and so very 20th century.One people one land sounds familar
That's a good slogan, but I feel it needs a little something extra. Rule of three and all that. "
One leader is required to complete the trinity. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"Mono culture is so boring and so very 20th century.One people one land sounds familar .
Well practically nobody in the world agrees with you I'm afraid.
I can't think of a single indigenous people or culture anywhere in the world that wants to destroy itself except liberal white people"
Your distinctiveness will be added to the collective. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe..
No I was more meaning your attitude to eradicating a culture just because you don't like or agree with it!.
"
Hardly.
If a dominant culture is so fragile that it can be under threat by the appearance of a fraction of the overall population who aren't as they are, then it deserves to be destroyed.
Culture adapts, or it is replaced. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed.
And that folks is how the left became worse than the right "
If you say so. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"It sounds kinda sensible to have a referendum based on the outcome of the Brexit negotiations. That way, the public can make a decision based on more accurate information.
But a part of me thinks that they are positioning themselves as the "Brexit party" because they have nothing to lose (and everything to gain).
Will those who have never voted for the Lib Dems do so now simply to exit Brexit? Will it be enough for them to win? "
I don't think Clegg could have done more to damage the lib dems.
Having the tories of all parties with Legislation by proclamation at their greedy claws is slightly terrifying bit like ernst stavros blofeld with a death ray |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe..
No I was more meaning your attitude to eradicating a culture just because you don't like or agree with it!.
Hardly.
If a dominant culture is so fragile that it can be under threat by the appearance of a fraction of the overall population who aren't as they are, then it deserves to be destroyed.
Culture adapts, or it is replaced."
.
It's not fragile, British is a minority in its own capital, the last "big" influx of culture was the French Huguenots a few hundred years ago, they numbered 50,000 over an 80 year timespan |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe..
No I was more meaning your attitude to eradicating a culture just because you don't like or agree with it!.
Hardly.
If a dominant culture is so fragile that it can be under threat by the appearance of a fraction of the overall population who aren't as they are, then it deserves to be destroyed.
Culture adapts, or it is replaced..
It's not fragile, British is a minority in its own capital, the last "big" influx of culture was the French Huguenots a few hundred years ago, they numbered 50,000 over an 80 year timespan"
If it's not fragile, then it'll be fine. It doesn't require the "protection" of people fretting about foreigners with their funny accents, customs, and passports.
Of course "protecting our (white) culture" has been a racist dog whistle for so long calling it a dog whistle is no longer accurate. Even in the out group, people know what that means. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe..
No I was more meaning your attitude to eradicating a culture just because you don't like or agree with it!.
Hardly.
If a dominant culture is so fragile that it can be under threat by the appearance of a fraction of the overall population who aren't as they are, then it deserves to be destroyed.
Culture adapts, or it is replaced..
It's not fragile, British is a minority in its own capital, the last "big" influx of culture was the French Huguenots a few hundred years ago, they numbered 50,000 over an 80 year timespan
If it's not fragile, then it'll be fine. It doesn't require the "protection" of people fretting about foreigners with their funny accents, customs, and passports.
Of course "protecting our (white) culture" has been a racist dog whistle for so long calling it a dog whistle is no longer accurate. Even in the out group, people know what that means."
.
I don't know any people or culture in the world that doesn't want to protect itself from outside influences? Perhaps you can tell me more about these cultures that wish to?...I mean other than white liberals |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
I said from the beginning it was ALL about immigration, there's nothing wrong or racist about wanting to maintain your culture,
Of a culture is so fragile that it cannot broke change, then it deserves to be destroyed..
You sound like Hitler
Oh aye, that Hitler fella, big on not preserving a particular notion of culture, he was.
Known for it, I believe..
No I was more meaning your attitude to eradicating a culture just because you don't like or agree with it!.
Hardly.
If a dominant culture is so fragile that it can be under threat by the appearance of a fraction of the overall population who aren't as they are, then it deserves to be destroyed.
Culture adapts, or it is replaced..
It's not fragile, British is a minority in its own capital, the last "big" influx of culture was the French Huguenots a few hundred years ago, they numbered 50,000 over an 80 year timespan
If it's not fragile, then it'll be fine. It doesn't require the "protection" of people fretting about foreigners with their funny accents, customs, and passports.
Of course "protecting our (white) culture" has been a racist dog whistle for so long calling it a dog whistle is no longer accurate. Even in the out group, people know what that means..
I don't know any people or culture in the world that doesn't want to protect itself from outside influences? Perhaps you can tell me more about these cultures that wish to?...I mean other than white liberals"
All of them?
Most people don't spend their time fretting that their culture will change, as it's going to do that anyway. Trying to protect it from outside influences is a waste of time.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The country democratically voted to leave the EU. The government are effecting that decision. That is democracy. End of."
There is no 'End of' when it comes to democracy. That's why we have general elections roughly about every 4 years.
As BREXIT day gets closer and closer and if it becomes clear that the people are not happy with the way it appears to be going a referendum on the deal is almost inevitable. If, on the other hand, the people think it's going well, or even OK, then no referendum will happen. However even that will not be the end of it. If, after BREXIT, the EU consistently out performs the UK then the issue of rejoining will pretty soon be on the agenda. The people can, and often do, change their minds and the arguments for or against have to be constantly and consistently made. It's never 'End of'.
That's democracy. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"The nation as a whole voted for it. The majority voted for it. That is how a democracy works."
No it's not. A parliamentary democracy works by people voting for a person to represent them in a parliament and that that parliament passes laws that the majority of those sitting believe to be in the best interests of the country.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories."
I disagree. A bad BREXIT, and I don't believe a good BREXIT is possible, is probably Labour's best chance of keeping the Tories out of power for a generation and possibility for ever. The only question is whether Labour or the LibDems will get the electoral benefit. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic."
A parliamentary democracy is based on the principle that the people vote for representatives, not delegates. A representative is free to vote for what they believe to be the best interests of those they represent. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"maybe its just me... well probably not....
i just don't see why people are so adament that they don't want to know what the deal actually means...
they are so focused on the "leave" part... you'd get the feeling that if they then added in the clause "even person who voted leave must pay 10000 pounds... and their first born offspring" they would be fine with it....
its not even a case of leave or stay, its a case of " do i think that this motley crew will get the uk a deal they is beneficial to most people?" and i don't think i can! i mean lets look at the evidence so far!
and people who voted leave want to give this lot a blank cheque!!! crackers....
"
Do you seriously think that any crew could possibly deliver a good BREXIT? |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories.
I disagree. A bad BREXIT, and I don't believe a good BREXIT is possible, is probably Labour's best chance of keeping the Tories out of power for a generation and possibility for ever. The only question is whether Labour or the LibDems will get the electoral benefit."
Nobody is playing N-dimensional hyper-chess on this one. Certainly not labour, and definitely not the public.
The Tories point to the election result and the continuing support for brexit as their mandate, and they're not wrong.
There's no alternative plan for brexit as labour are content to snipe from the sidelines, so in supporting brexit, people are giving support to the Tories, whether they like it or not. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic.
A parliamentary democracy is based on the principle that the people vote for representatives, not delegates. A representative is free to vote for what they believe to be the best interests of those they represent."
On my ballot paper there were four candidates standing for the different political parties and two independent candidates.
If elected as an MP, he/she* are expected to attend voting sessions and to vote according to the official party policy.
This of course will not apply if they are independent.
*He/she is not deliberately meant to offend any parliamentary candidates at the last election who were unsure of their gender. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
The only achievement of a second referendum would be the possibility of a third.
Imagine this scenario.
Britain has a second referendum and votes to stay in. So far so good for the remainers.
However the EU then puts a spanner in the works.
Before allowing Britain to revoke article 50 they would be quite entitled to strip Britain of its rebate (you could pretty much bet the farm that they would go for that one)
They would also be entitled to take another look at Britain's opt outs. Membership of the Euro and joining Schengen would be the obvious two.
How does anyone think that would go down in the country?
There would be a massive call (much more than at present) for a third referendum.
Yes the first referendum was only advisory but it would have been a very brave (nay suicidal) decision for any Prime Minister to ignore it. However article 50 has now been triggered and you cannot un-shoot a bullet.
Should Britain ever vote to stay in then the EU knows damn well that it has Britain's bollocks well and truly in its pocket and, with Brit haters like Juncker and Barnier in charge, will squeeze them for all they are worth. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
"
You realise that in one of the documents of parliment it ssys something to the effect that, MP's are voted in to assess and act in the best intersts of their constituents. That is parlimentary democracy.
.
Read what you wrote again and tell me how voting against what your constitute did is anything remotely democratic.
A parliamentary democracy is based on the principle that the people vote for representatives, not delegates. A representative is free to vote for what they believe to be the best interests of those they represent."
.
On a day to day basis with various policies this of course is true.. However
If the majority of the people your representing have just voted leave in an official government held referendum then they have clearly given you a taste of the wishes of the people your there to represent?.
I'm not being hypocritical, I'd expect those MPs in constitutes that voted remain to follow their wishes as well |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
""Brit haters"
The speed at which people are willing to cast poor old blighty as being the victims of nefarious bullies is astounding."
Look it up. Some of the comments made by those two over the years (especially Barnier) are also quite astounding. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Brit haters"
The speed at which people are willing to cast poor old blighty as being the victims of nefarious bullies is astounding.
Look it up. Some of the comments made by those two over the years (especially Barnier) are also quite astounding."
Im betting you cant wait to get back to good old blighty then in 2019....and tbh some of the remarks come from the UKIP representative in the EU hasnt been too nice either....look them up |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Brit haters"
The speed at which people are willing to cast poor old blighty as being the victims of nefarious bullies is astounding."
Couldn't agree more. But not quite as fast as certain people on here willing to cast everyone who voted leave a racist, a Nazi etc. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
|
By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago
|
""Brit haters"
The speed at which people are willing to cast poor old blighty as being the victims of nefarious bullies is astounding.
Look it up. Some of the comments made by those two over the years (especially Barnier) are also quite astounding."
Not really, no.
I'm find very little to be astounded about by leaders from nations outside the UK not falling all over themselves to give the UK the sloppiest of blowjobs, and actually being critical of it's behaviour.
|
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
"But could not be ignored. How can you ask the country that voted you in as an MP, and then ignore them? It's a democracy, not North Korea.
Tbh i dont think you have a clue what democracy is...if your in favour of brexit and how this government is trying to slant the power grab .
See your doing the typical fucking lefty liberal bollocks of conflating two septate issues.
It's perfectly possible to be in favour of brexit and against this Tory bunch of shit grabbers.
I should know
Support for Brexit is defacto support for the Tories.
I disagree. A bad BREXIT, and I don't believe a good BREXIT is possible, is probably Labour's best chance of keeping the Tories out of power for a generation and possibility for ever. The only question is whether Labour or the LibDems will get the electoral benefit.
Nobody is playing N-dimensional hyper-chess on this one. Certainly not labour, and definitely not the public.
The Tories point to the election result and the continuing support for brexit as their mandate, and they're not wrong.
There's no alternative plan for brexit as labour are content to snipe from the sidelines, so in supporting brexit, people are giving support to the Tories, whether they like it or not. "
TBH I've no problem with giving support to Tories when they're putting forward what I consider to be sensible, pragmatic policies, especially on the economy. The problem is is that that was their big selling point but now their not even offering that. BREXIT is what will kill the Conservative party. |
Reply privately, Reply in forum +quote
or View forums list | |
» Add a new message to this topic
